the 2012 prophecies MUST be true because the world is losing its fucking mind.

I read this post in GD: http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=10198441&mesg_id=10198441&page=

no diss to smurf because he's entitled to post his opinion.

BUT... people REALLY need to be reminded on how utterly WACK, that guy was. the absurity of giving that guy some kind of artistic credit for the bullshit he put out is downright ludicrous.

he was a record label fabrication. they pulled the guy out of a club, packaged him as the next great white hope for hip hop, and what we got was the worst fucking hip hop ACT in the history of hip hop.

first, i never liked the guy because I felt he mocked not only hip hop, but it's culture. albeit, black culture. THAT shit offended me.

second, they way he was quietly played up as the white alternative to mc hammer. i mean, hammer by no means was a great lyracist. but he was a one HELL of a dancer AND entertainer. on that ALONE... the comparisons between them was ridiculous.

third, the fact that he was pushed onto Hip Hop audiences to the point where folks were FORCED to accept him as a legitimate artist was unnerving.

Now, the guy has been looking to "rehabilitate" (lol @ rehabilitate) his image by starring in a few reality shows here and there. and by doing so -- he's being marketed as an "unsung artist" who was misunderstood by the media and audiences, and that rob van winkle is actually a great artist who never had a chance to prove himself.

this is the same guy who coined that "drop that zero and get with a hero" bullshit and implied himself to be a "black" artist because he "grew up" in the black culture.

he's being promoted as the first rap act to break through the mid-south. yet -- FAR more talented artists like scarface have NEVER been mentioned under the same breath as vanilla ice.

yeah, this fucking co-optation he ran with ultimately got him over where he sold millions of albums until the 15 minute well ran dry and people started to catch on to his fuckery.

people claim that the current trend in hip hop is the lowest point on it's timeline.

No.

HE was hip hop's LOWEST point on it's timeline.

particulary in regards to artistry.

i don't normally rant like this because i don't like to bring a whole lot of attention to myself on this site. i just like to chill in the cut and read posts from treb, scorp, disco, afkap, oldpro, claw, popwell, maxxx, and others because you guys keep shit far more interesting than this shit i'm on right now.

but i had to get it off my e-chest.

if anyone disagrees, please by ALL means, tell me why because I honestly don't think i'm going crazy here.

i'll check back in a litte later.

I kinda feel somewhat bad for dude, because it was obvious that he was pretty much "John Cena"-ed so that Select could have their own "Hammer".

That his music was classic? Or in the context of "serious rap tunes"? Eh, naw. Dude was a novelty, made to be such, as you said. White rappers weren't common, and when they did rap, they often were making fun of the genre. Vanilla Ice was about the largest-scale example of such, but he kept kayfabe for the longest time. 3rd Bass was a notable exception.

Black radio did play "Ice Ice Baby" that I remember, but something tells me that it was begrudgingly. I do remember white dudes getting his haircut though, LOL.

>I kinda feel somewhat bad for dude, because it was obvious
>that he was pretty much "John Cena"-ed so that Select could
>have their own "Hammer".
>
>That his music was classic? Or in the context of "serious rap
>tunes"? Eh, naw. Dude was a novelty, made to be such, as you
>said. White rappers weren't common, and when they did rap,
>they often were making fun of the genre. Vanilla Ice was about
>the largest-scale example of such, but he kept kayfabe for the
>longest time. 3rd Bass was a notable exception.

after that shit serch pulled on stage at the apollo yelling into the crowd -- if you're black and proud say HOOOOOOOO!

man, that moment in hip hop history made me put ALL of their records to the back of the crate for ahwile.


>
>Black radio did play "Ice Ice Baby" that I remember, but
>something tells me that it was begrudgingly. I do remember
>white dudes getting his haircut though, LOL.


lol... yeah, i remmeber that too.

>after that shit serch pulled on stage at the apollo yelling
>into the crowd -- if you're black and proud say HOOOOOOOO!
>
>man, that moment in hip hop history made me put ALL of their
>records to the back of the crate for ahwile.

...they, too, got on/over because their appeal was "HOLY SHIT THESE WHITE GUYS CAN RAP!!!"

and they were kind of... "playing the role" real tough in the beginning. (getting "3rd Bass" cut in the hair and all)

don't be fkn evil.

that was part of the appeal (initially). The whole "WTF-ness" of it...

but they did give us quite a few canonized pieces, like "BEAT... Mmmmm....DROP!!!!"

as far as 3rd Bass and the crowd comment, they played to the crowd. Judging them negatively for doing that seems silly, imo.

don't be fkn evil.

>as far as 3rd Bass and the crowd comment, they played to the
>crowd. Judging them negatively for doing that seems silly,
>imo.

that don't qualiify them for a pass on that shit. they performed before a black audience at the appllo. and knowing the history of the making or breaking of artists on an apollo stage....they put THEMSELVES out there to be judged.

and what they said was dumb. period.

out of all the white rapper/white rapper fronted groups to come out in the 90s:

The Beastie Boys
3rd Bass
House of Pain

were pretty much as real as it got to me...

They were the few groups that were played OFTEN in the hood I grew up in and no one had any issues or problems with them.

Vanilla Ice: no disrespect to Robbie Van Winkle, because he is making his money and doing it on the house flipping front these days, but he was a joke. plain and simple...

Get Out the Room
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Sure, they made a lot of Frat-Rap, and they were more about having fun than being B-Boys. But seriously. "Licensce to Ill" and "Paul's Boutique" get them a lifetime pass from me.

I think 3rd Bass was just trying to show the Hip-Hop world how 'real' they were. Which was stupid, because they were already accepted as dope, and the Beasties weren't really seen as competition to 3rd Bass.


and "Check your Head"? sheeeeeeeeeiiiiiiit. One of my favorite Hip-Hop albums of All Time.



( oh, and uh, it's 2011 and the Beasties are still here. Anybody seen Pete Nice recently? I heard he runs a sports memorabilia shop...)


sidepost: "Derelicts of Dialect" is a HEATER. Anybody who says otherwise is either crazy or lying.

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"what do we think about Hammer?" - in the Gas Face video

The Beasties have bonafide CLASSICS in hip-hop.
They're one of those groups in that era, that were heavily referenced (through vocal samples, etc) by other rappers.

>( oh, and uh, it's 2011 and the Beasties are still here.
>Anybody seen Pete Nice recently? I heard he runs a sports
>memorabilia shop...)

LOL, I heard that too.

>sidepost: "Derelicts of Dialect" is a HEATER. Anybody who says
>otherwise is either crazy or lying.

yep. The album? or the song? Either or, I loved that shit (especially the song with that title.)

http://thesource.com/2014/07/09/pete-nice-of-3rd-bass-pleads-guilty-to-tax-evasion-in-albany/

Oh, and co-sign on Derelicts of Dialect. Terribly underrated album.

_______________________________________
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>after that shit serch pulled on stage at the apollo yelling
>into the crowd -- if you're black and proud say HOOOOOOOO!
>
>man, that moment in hip hop history made me put ALL of their
>records to the back of the crate for ahwile.
>

I really don't appreciate him insinuating I should be proud of being Black

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

But I also won't act like I didn't like Ice Ice Baby. And he's DEFINITELY not the lowest point in hip-hop

>But I also won't act like I didn't like Ice Ice Baby. And
>he's DEFINITELY not the lowest point in hip-hop

i meant in terms of artistry.

that Queen sample in Ice Ice Baby was ill, i can't front on that. the rest of the beat sucked, imo, but i've heard worse.

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Even as a funny "pop" song, "Ice Ice Baby" is such a lasting image, anytime I hear David Bowie's original, that's the first thing that comes to mind.

.

i'm not saying he was spectacularly talented, but he DID put in a lot of work, time and effort to reach the point where someone would *want* to scoop him up.

everything else is pretty much on point though. he was never a great rapper...servicable at best. and THAT'S being generous. his fabricated persona REALLY came back to bite him in the ass.

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>i'm not saying he was spectacularly talented, but he DID put
>in a lot of work, time and effort to reach the point where
>someone would *want* to scoop him up.

they did the press kits
they sent him around the world
they packaged his image to be brought and sold millions of times over.

otherwise, his PERSONAL business acumen was limited to no-name local clubs in texas and florida. now that's not to say that it doesn't mean anything. but if we're talking about a "hustle" to the levels of worldwide success -- dude was never going to see it.

>they did the press kits
>they sent him around the world
>they packaged his image to be brought and sold millions of
>times over.

i'm mainly speaking about prior to that point. he was supposedly paying his dues and making a name for himself to the point that the label noticed him. we can't take EVERYTHING away from that wack nigga...lol.

>otherwise, his PERSONAL business acumen was limited to no-name
>local clubs in texas and florida. now that's not to say that
>it doesn't mean anything. but if we're talking about a
>"hustle" to the levels of worldwide success -- dude was never
>going to see it.

that's not even what i'm saying though. i don't think he even had those sort of Master P, Luke, Puff, Suge-mogul goals. that whole "i'm not a rapper, i'm a movement" shit was rare then, most people relied on a record label for that at the time. it's kinda unfair to judge him by those standards. i don't think he was COMPLETELY manufactured by the record company (unless you've seen a different Behind the Music than i have). i think the kid just wanted to rap and do hoodrat stuff with his friends. nothing wrong with that. it just so happened that he wasn't that good.

damn you for making me appear that i'm defending Vanilla Ice. lol. i NEVER fooled with that shit.

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And yes, the first time I heard it was when I saw the video.

I thought it was better and cooler than anything MC Hammer was putting out at the same time. Not that I was a huge fan of either one of them, mind you... But I think the true revisionism is in people acting like that shit was aural ebola when in fact it was a decent tune that a lot of people liked until they saw what the artist looked like, and then saw the artist getting more and more minstrelish as his career progressed.

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and i also liked play that funky music whiteboy (the b-side) but ima chalk that up to being 8 at the time

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A lot of people disliked the track from jump. The implication that he was disliked just because he was white is just off to me from what I remember. The "reverse" racism angle is bogus especially when there were white rappers who got lots of love.

From what I remember, it was his vibe, the wack style, his corny dance moves that really made you say "oh please". He seemed phony and insecure...and the confidence was fake. That played a huge part in his lack of appeal. And to boot there were better performers, emcees, and songs out there. People doing what he did better - including Hammer who out performed Vanilla Ice in every way possible & I was not a fan.

Vanilla Ice was being tolerated though & touring with hip hop acts but the backlash against him by hiphop in general came because he had the nerve to be THAT arrogant while that corny AND somehow became appointed the King of rap by a non hip hop audience & media which is always annoying. It was the perfect storm of disgust.

true or false?

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this post is kinda pointless. Everybody who knows music and hip hop at all realizes this dude was a joke from the jump. Any revisionism concerning Vanilla Ice will be limited to a few know-nothings and a few others playing devil's advocate, or trolling. You really don't need to concern yourself about this. I think you'll see people making a case for Warrant and Trixter before they go to the mat for Vanilla - at least those guys could play instruments. Vanilla was a no-talent assclown.

--

>this post is kinda pointless. Everybody who knows music and
>hip hop at all realizes this dude was a joke from the jump.
>Any revisionism concerning Vanilla Ice will be limited to a
>few know-nothings and a few others playing devil's advocate,
>or trolling. You really don't need to concern yourself about
>this. I think you'll see people making a case for Warrant and
>Trixter before they go to the mat for Vanilla - at least those
>guys could play instruments. Vanilla was a no-talent
>assclown.

lol

well said.

That said as a lot of people are pointing out you really can't outrightly dismiss vanilla Ice as the worst of Hiphop's history which seems to be the general position he holds today.

I can understand as a hardcore fan of hiphop you'd be pissed at all he represents but a lot of the things he is criticised for are common practise today and that was really the point of the post.

I imagine that there are acts that you today as a serious hiphop fan are disgusted/annoyed with and i imagine those acts are even more slickly put together record company creations than ice was.

also the whole "first southern platinum rapper" point was extremely tongue in cheek but like all of the posts i guess it pisses people off because there is the tiniest grain of truth in it.

As i put in the original post, just like now, when i wrote the post i was trying to distract myself from doing real work if it really is pissing you off try to remember that, that was the spirit in which i wrote it.

>That said as a lot of people are pointing out you really
>can't outrightly dismiss vanilla Ice as the worst of Hiphop's
>history which seems to be the general position he holds
>today.
>
>I can understand as a hardcore fan of hiphop you'd be pissed
>at all he represents but a lot of the things he is criticised
>for are common practise today and that was really the point of
>the post.
>
>I imagine that there are acts that you today as a serious
>hiphop fan are disgusted/annoyed with and i imagine those acts
>are even more slickly put together record company creations
>than ice was.
>
>also the whole "first southern platinum rapper" point was
>extremely tongue in cheek but like all of the posts i guess it
>pisses people off because there is the tiniest grain of truth
>in it.
>
>As i put in the original post, just like now, when i wrote the
>post i was trying to distract myself from doing real work if
>it really is pissing you off try to remember that, that was
>the spirit in which i wrote it.

because you sounded starightforward with your stance on the guy.

everything you said here is pretty much subjective so, I can't really offer much of a response except that as i said earlier, your entited to your opinion.

i just beg to differ.

The first sentence kinda set out my stance
"In this exciting new show we re-examine much maligned popular culture figures (essentially this is a rip off of 5 reasons why you can blame)
Robert matthew van winkle AKA vanilla ice lives in infamy as an exploiter of hiphop the original elvis of hiphop etc. but maybe he needs re-evaluation"

Im not sure if you've seen the show '5 reasons......' but the whole concept is to play devils advocate on a generally held principle eg, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVU6LcA6Y7A&feature=related

personally i can take or leave vanilla ice but i just thought this was an interesting topic to look at

i never rode for him but let's not act like the media PUSHED that song down our throat.

He dropped that shit right after Spike Lee's "School Daze" had made the A Phi A chant well known in most Black Households.

It was a shrewd and savvy business move, and while that nigga is trash when it comes to Hip Hop History...the business accumen on THAT particular move was fantastic.

D

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

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>i never rode for him but let's not act like the media PUSHED
>that song down our throat.

lol ...yup. that's true without a doubt. i mean, short of making it a black and white issue, it happened at a point in time when i think it was generally seen as "unusual", but cool for a white guy to rap in a genre that's dominated by black artists. becasue of that, i just think he emerged at the right place and the right time.

because i wonder if ugk or devin the dude dropped a record like that, would THEY have gotten the same kind of worldwide attention?

i doubt it.

What the blood claaat ???

David Bowie sang on it, so yeah, we can still call it a David Bowie song, can't we?

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>David Bowie sang on it, so yeah, we can still call it a David
>Bowie song, can't we?

you COULD get away with calling it his song (i guess), but that bass line ain't his.

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but that's like sayin' "Funky Drummer" ain't a James Brown record.


James ain't had SHIT to do with the part everybody knows. But go try to buy that Clyde Stubblefield record called "Funky Drummer"...

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bad analogy, patna.

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>bad analogy, patna.


They sampled a part of the record that DIDN'T feature the motherfucker who's name is on the record.


See also: 99.999999% of all famous Hip-Hop Breaks.

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only because to ME, for YEARS his voice stood out at the identifier to that song, first... THEN the baseline. that was until ice, ice baby dropped and it became the reverse for me.


like disco said.. this all is sorta like tomato v. tomAto.

nevertheless, the intent to make a point is still there.

but i understand what you're saying tone.

DUN DUN-DUN DUN DUN.

_______________________________________

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THAT'S what did him in. When he said THAT shit.

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>He dropped that shit right after Spike Lee's "School Daze" had
>made the A Phi A chant well known in most Black Households.
>

They did not take kindly to him stealing their very popular stepping chant. That shit was considered an insult. Sorta like any random broad goin' around yelling, "Skeeeeeeeeeee Weeeeee", w/o being accepted by and paying their dues (financial & sweat) to Alpha Kappa Alpha, Inc.

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until the world hated that song.




sidepost: are Ques STILL steppin to "Atomic Dog"in 2011? Man, they made me HATE that song.

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>sidepost: are Ques STILL steppin to "Atomic Dog"in 2011? Man,
>they made me HATE that song.
>

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------------------------------

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i was thinking i could just throw it in the mix at a wedding reception once...bad idea.

the old Ques started steppin'...and the Kappa (whose reception it was) wanted me to cut that off immediately, lol.

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>the old Ques started steppin'...and the Kappa (whose reception
>it was) wanted me to cut that off immediately, lol.

"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

by all rights, that song SHOULD be as much the standard Alpha song as much as "Atomic Dog" is for the Ques. Except it's basically a novelty hit by an extremely wack white rapper so it's completely unusable.

Go Smack yourself and then apologize to your hand for looking stupid - Case_One

http://i54.tinypic.com/nxros2.jpg

that cracked me up as well.

...but lets not act like "Ice Ice Baby" is worse than some of this garbage we have today thats popular ...Black Eyed Peas anyone?

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.

>...but lets not act like "Ice Ice Baby" is worse than some of
>this garbage we have today thats popular ...Black Eyed Peas
>anyone?

..as much flack as the peas get for the shit they've been dropping over the past five or seven years, i'll take Joints & Jams over Ice Baby Baby ANY day.

>he was a record label fabrication. they pulled the guy out of
>a club, packaged him as the next great white hope for hip hop,
>and what we got was the worst fucking hip hop ACT in the
>history of hip hop.

You are perpetuating a false myth.

Vanilla Ice had an indie record that was huge well before a major ever stepped in, Snake from Nemesis he acknowledges him as their primary competition in the Dallas underground scene. According to Roni Sarig's book Ice used to travel to Houston's Rhinestone Wrangler to battle Willie D from the Geto Boys. In those Dallas days Ice used to run with Chocolate, who would later sign to DOC & Suge Knight's pre-Death Row imprint Ghetto Life. (This is what provoked the whole balcony hanging extortion incident.)

Not to play Captain Save-A-Nilla here, because dude obviously made some horrible decisions and music as his career progressed, but let's not act as if he was fully synthesized from the mind of a record exec. Actually it's sort of telling how much things have changed. Even the poppiest acts had to pay dues in those days.

Name one "pop" act that has never paid dues?

It is pretty difficult to go from 0-100 "real quick"

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
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-------------------------------------------
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>HE was hip hop's LOWEST point on it's timeline.

Gerardo
Marky Mark
MC Skat Kat (yes there was a solo album)

As others said lets not act like Ice didn't have a jam... thats more than the others on this list can say.
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>
>>HE was hip hop's LOWEST point on it's timeline.
>
>Gerardo
>Marky Mark
>MC Skat Kat (yes there was a solo album)


>
>As others said lets not act like Ice didn't have a jam...
>thats more than the others on this list can say.

oh no doubt. but i'm not going to call him "unsung" like some of these other folks just becasue he got lucky with ONE record that had a tight baseline.

that's where the revisionist madness begins.

he wasnt authentic, but ive heard stupider/more wince-worthy stuff come from 'authentic' guys, and im not sure them being 'down' makes that any better. yeah vanilla ice was a bit of an embarassment but i think thats more to do with real hip hop artists not getting recognised/rewarded than him being THAT awful. i just see him as kind of harmless really. not worth getting angry about anymore. its not like he 'elvis'd hip hop. hip hop just went on about its business as it had been doing. he didnt affect anything or anyone in the long run.

not that i wanna hear any of his music. but ice ice baby wasnt that bad.

also, he had a pretty good quiff!

it was so...quiffy.

V.

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.

>he wasnt authentic, but ive heard stupider/more wince-worthy
>stuff come from 'authentic' guys, and im not sure them being
>'down' makes that any better. yeah vanilla ice was a bit of an
>embarassment but i think thats more to do with real hip hop
>artists not getting recognised/rewarded than him being THAT
>awful. i just see him as kind of harmless really. not worth
>getting angry about anymore. its not like he 'elvis'd hip hop.
>hip hop just went on about its business as it had been doing.
>he didnt affect anything or anyone in the long run.
>
>not that i wanna hear any of his music. but ice ice baby wasnt
>that bad.
>
>also, he had a pretty good quiff!

"the world in general wasnt ready for a hood-white dude."

what hood is he from? he's about as hood as kid rock

"He opened the door to Hiphop for our white brothers and sisters"

Ever hear of The Beastie Boys?

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

...cause that's about 90% of this whole argument.
______________________________________________________________________________

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"
-George Clinton

.

And getting huge acclaim & accolades for it...like they're better than the best black artists doing the same thing.

That's really what it is.

______________



http://www.windimoto.com


http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

http://wallpapershi.net/wallpapers/2012/01/boba-fett-star-wars-star-wars-boba-fett-movie-anime-1080x1920.jpg

our throats. I caught myself listening to Mobb Deep's "Pearly Gates ft. 50 Cent" and thinking why'd I hate this dude so much 5 years ago? He doesn't half as bad from today's standpoint. I'm sure a lot of ppl hated Bruce Springsteen in 1984/85 when he was forced down everyone throats but looking back now a lot of those ppl won't hate so hard or maybe even changed their opinion.

Vanilla Ice wasn't a legitimate artists and despite what the revisionist said in the OG post he was talking about 9's in "Ice Ice Baby" so he was faking the street image from the start. But compared to Waka Flacka and Flo Rida he's lyrcism ain't that bad, there's a lot worse. He could rap but just was being fake about it and that's what killed him. The Beastie Boys exaggerated shit but they weren't trying to be taken seriously

that's understandable.

but let's not pretend your vitriol is based on vanilla being the "low point of artistry." i never heard the guy's album, but the hit single was mediocre lyrics over a great beat. that's nowhere near rap's nadir -- not when silkk the shocker's discography and will smith's"wild wild west" exist.

>will smith's"wild wild west" exist.

that song was a soup of things that are generally good to great on their own... reduced to diarrhea stew

eff you for reminding me of that

>that song was a soup of things that are generally good to
>great on their own... reduced to diarrhea stew

i'm making a list of all your quotables.

lol

I think "Miami" is worse than that one. Perhaps the cheesiest song ever made.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

I wish everyone can be as perceptive as you.

lol

Vanilla ice has nothing

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