Yup. I said it.
Think about it hard.
Think about it real hard.

Yes apart of it stems from his passing. Yes unlike Jimi there will be many artists who will be able to surpass him (some who already have). But he laid down a musical blueprint like Jimi. And in his relatively short career left a legacy of music both official and unofficial that will be studied and listened to for the years to come.

Do the knowledge.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
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If he changed it from your stance, what was it before and what is it now?

Hip Hop evolves so much and so fast(from a sound perspective), but it hasn't evoled in regards to content... I believe the Jimi of Hip Hop hasn't happened yet, though we've had a glimpse here and there--> Pac, Andre 3000, Lauryn. I think the Jimi of hip hop will change the lyrical content vs the sound... at least I hope so.

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>If he changed it from your stance, what was it before and
>what is it now?

Are you limiting hip-hop to what is popular?

He made the instrument of hip-hop a forefront player, where as before it was limited to playing a supporting role. There were people who did/attempted to do it before, but it became with Dilla.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
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Rock n Roll?

Dilla DID NOT change Hip Hop. And no this isn't about what's popular, bcuz we all know how OKP feels about popularity. You really gave me a Yoda response to the question BTW. What Jimi brought to rock n roll FAR exceeded what Dilla brought to producing IMO. Dilla has a cult following. He shouldn't be mentioned in the same post as Jimi. But we ain't gonna agree on this shit, I already know it.

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>What Jimi
>brought to rock n roll FAR exceeded what Dilla brought to
>producing IMO.

Can you give me a Yoda response illustrating that?

>Dilla has a cult following. He shouldn't be
>mentioned in the same post as Jimi. But we ain't gonna agree
>on this shit, I already know it.

It's funny how cats like to remember Jimi. I'm assuming you're black. And based on that assumption back when Jimi was alive you would have been saying something to the affect of "Jimi has a cult following." Decades later though you're ready to openly embrace his legacy as untouchable particularly as it relates to not every having to take black rock seriously because you know, no one could be better than Jimi, and besides Black Rock has a 'cult following.'

Yeah I'm overgeneralizing and making assumptions about you, but fuck it. You ain't said nothing worth more than its weight in salt, and considering this is a messageboard...

YODA!!!

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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
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Dilla to Tchaikovsky if you want to, it's not gonna change the fact that Dilla's overall influence of the sound of Hip Hop is limited. Kanye has had more influence imo. Outside of OKP and a few underground heads I know, Dilla is pretty anonymous. You might as well compare Cody Chestnutt to Jimi at this point.

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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

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http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=104783&mesg_id=104783&page=6

I've treaded this road before.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

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Sorry I gotta hang you out to dry on that one.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

abilty to make good music vs. technical music

I've heard just about everything Dilla has put out and I still give
his catalogue a 4/10 at BEST. Does he chop up and create interesting
sounds, sure, but does that mean it sounds good--> no. For every 1 Dilla track I like, there are about 5 that I don't. But if you're in to his sound, there's nothing wrong with that... you just hear something I don't.

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>But if you're in to his sound, there's nothing wrong with
>that... you just hear something I don't.

I'm not *that* into his sound.

But I am 'into' a lot of the music that has resulted from his influence and it has forced me to go back and do his work justice. I still am not at ?uesto levels of awe with it, but I understand the fruits based on the tree he established. Theses fruits have spawned new 'genres' that have taken life of their own. That in and of itself is on par with hendrix (note on par not the same). Hendrix redefined a genre. Dilla spawned new ones. So to go back on your question, did he even have to change 'hip-hop'? I contend in a few years 'hip-hop' will have to change itself to account for him and his spawns.

Think about it.

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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
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>I understand the fruits based on the tree he established.
>Theses fruits have spawned new 'genres' that have taken life
>of their own. That in and of itself is on par with hendrix
>(note on par not the same). Hendrix redefined a genre. Dilla
>spawned new ones.

What new genres of music are you referring to?

AYANA SOYINI
Artist/DJ/Producer
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New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

>What new genres of music are you referring to?

Time will tell how they play out but considering some hip-hop heads would separate them from hip-hop and thrust them into electronic music categorically, while some electronica would categorically thrust them distinguishably from electronic music as hip-hop is telling that there is a newness about them distinct from either classification. That said as I said above I think hip-hop will end up changing its definition to include them in the future.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

>>What new genres of music are you referring to?
>
>Time will tell how they play out but considering some hip-hop
>heads would separate them from hip-hop and thrust them into
>electronic music categorically, while some electronica would
>categorically thrust them distinguishably from electronic
>music as hip-hop is telling that there is a newness about them
>distinct from either classification. That said as I said
>above I think hip-hop will end up changing its definition to
>include them in the future.


Who is the "them" that you are referring to? I need you to give names and examples.

AYANA SOYINI
Artist/DJ/Producer
Khamouflage Productions
www.facebook.com/djayanasoyini
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New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

Exile being considered instrumental hip-hop. Nosaj Thing not being considered hip-hop. Both fall under the influence of Dilla. Doing distinctly different things. And yet agreement about how they should be classified is iffy.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

>Exile being considered instrumental hip-hop. Nosaj Thing not
>being considered hip-hop. Both fall under the influence of
>Dilla. Doing distinctly different things. And yet agreement
>about how they should be classified is iffy.


Well I can see why Nosaj Thing is not considered Hip Hop. From what I have heard, there are way too many electronica elements, sounds and production techniques employed to classify that music as Hip Hop. The sound is just way too trippy and not in a soulful way at all.

As far as Exile goes, though I like some of what I have heard, I'm not hearing anything too different from what Dilla was doing when he was alive. Unfortunately, that is the case with alot of these cats who proudly claim they were influenced by Dilla. They don't seem to be building on his legacy at all. To my ears, many of them are only imitating and copying...often times in a very bad and mediocre way. I'm not hearing the progression within the Hip Hop context at all.

AYANA SOYINI
Artist/DJ/Producer
Khamouflage Productions
www.facebook.com/djayanasoyini
www.soundcloud.com/khamouflage
www.youtube.com/khamouflage

New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

>Well I can see why Nosaj Thing is not considered Hip Hop. From
>what I have heard, there are way too many electronica
>elements, sounds and production techniques employed to
>classify that music as Hip Hop. The sound is just way too
>trippy and not in a soulful way at all.

Nosaj Thing is hip-hop. He's not just hip-hop, but he is hip-hop. One day hip-hop will be able to embrace it (especially if he goes from remixing rappers to working with them). Fortunately he doesn't HAVE to get the full embrace to keep doing his thing.

>As far as Exile goes, though I like some of what I have heard,
>I'm not hearing anything too different from what Dilla was
>doing when he was alive. Unfortunately, that is the case with
>alot of these cats who proudly claim they were influenced by
>Dilla. They don't seem to be building on his legacy at all. To
>my ears, many of them are only imitating and copying...often
>times in a very bad and mediocre way. I'm not hearing the
>progression within the Hip Hop context at all.

There is newness that Exile brings to the table, and a handful of others. I don't see him in the imitators category at all. The fact that he also has live chops alone is an addition. But technique wise he's got somethings. Getting the average fan to talk about them is another story. I'd articulate them here, but not without listening again to point out specifics. Unfortunately can't do that right now.

________
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

>Nosaj Thing is hip-hop. He's not just hip-hop, but he is
>hip-hop. One day hip-hop will be able to embrace it
>(especially if he goes from remixing rappers to working with
>them). Fortunately he doesn't HAVE to get the full embrace to
>keep doing his thing.

lol...He may be "Hip Hop" but I'm not hearing that prominently in his musical output. It's kind of like how you have some of these indie rock bands who utilize certain Hip Hop production techniques (like big heavy sampled drum sounds for example) but that doesn't mean they are making Hip Hop music. When I hear his music I don't immediately think "yeah that's Hip Hop" moreso than I think "yeah that is Hip Hop inspired". I think the audience for his style of music is limited. I don't think he will be embraced on a larger scale (not necessarily meaning mainstream popularity) until he can produce music that can fit into the current Hip Hop context while still being undeniably progressive. His shit doesn't "bang" nor is it particularly "soulful". Hip Hop music tends to lean in either one of those directions. Thus, he has to show he can be consistent doing one of those two styles of Hip Hop music, with his own progressive spin on it, before he will begin to be embraced...if being embraced within Hip Hop is even a goal of his.


>There is newness that Exile brings to the table, and a handful
>of others. I don't see him in the imitators category at all.
>The fact that he also has live chops alone is an addition.
>But technique wise he's got somethings. Getting the average
>fan to talk about them is another story. I'd articulate them
>here, but not without listening again to point out specifics.
>Unfortunately can't do that right now.


That's cool. Perhaps at another time then.

AYANA SOYINI
Artist/DJ/Producer
Khamouflage Productions
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New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

>lol...He may be "Hip Hop" but I'm not hearing that prominently
>in his musical output. It's kind of like how you have some of
>these indie rock bands who utilize certain Hip Hop production
>techniques (like big heavy sampled drum sounds for example)
>but that doesn't mean they are making Hip Hop music.

Why hip-hop sucks in 2010? � DJ Shadow
The notion that "hip-hop" is anything more than technique.
^^^ bait^^^

>I think
>the audience for his style of music is limited.

LOL!!! His audience is broader than a lot of 'hip-hop' cats.

>I don't think
>he will be embraced on a larger scale (not necessarily meaning
>mainstream popularity) until he can produce music that can fit
>into the current Hip Hop context while still being undeniably
>progressive.

He doesn't need to prove himself to hip-hop.

>His shit doesn't "bang" nor is it particularly
>"soulful".

I'd suggest you listen more. He makes shit that bangs. He also makes shit that is soulful (without soul samples). Sometimes in the same song. Not always. Like true hip-hop he has no limits. Remember when DJ's were spinning punk shit. What that wasn't hip-hop? Punk don't bang nor is it soulful. A lot of Bomb Squad lacks 'soulfulness' and what?

>Hip Hop music tends to lean in either one of those
>directions.

Myopic hip-hop does. But that's boring and lifeless.

^^^ more bait ^^^

>Thus, he has to show he can be consistent doing
>one of those two styles of Hip Hop music, with his own
>progressive spin on it, before he will begin to be
>embraced...if being embraced within Hip Hop is even a goal of
>his.

Again, he don't need hip-hop. But compare the original Drake "Forever" to the Nosaj Thing remix and you'll see that perhaps hip-hop could use him.


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<- Big PEMFin H & z's
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

>LOL!!! His audience is broader than a lot of 'hip-hop' cats.

How so?


>He doesn't need to prove himself to hip-hop.

If you want to be embraced by Hip Hop then yes you need to prove yourself to that community that what you are doing is worthy of attention.



>I'd suggest you listen more. He makes shit that bangs. He
>also makes shit that is soulful (without soul samples).
>Sometimes in the same song. Not always. Like true hip-hop he
>has no limits. Remember when DJ's were spinning punk shit.
>What that wasn't hip-hop? Punk don't bang nor is it soulful.
>A lot of Bomb Squad lacks 'soulfulness' and what?


Perhaps we have different tastes regarding what "bangs" and what is "soulful". Can you point out some examples of tracks by him that "bang" or are "soulful" to you?

Some DJ's were spinning punk records yes, but they weren't calling it Hip Hop. lol


As far as the Bomb Squad goes, it depends on what era you are talking about. Their work with Public Enemy and Ice Cube was at times both soulful AND banging. Nowadays they are more into Dub Step but I don't see Shocklee trying to pass it off as Hip Hop though.


>Again, he don't need hip-hop. But compare the original Drake
>"Forever" to the Nosaj Thing remix and you'll see that perhaps
>hip-hop could use him.

Well I never said that he needed Hip Hop but you seem to be implying that he wants some kind of Hip Hop acceptance. Thus, I gave my opinion on what he needs to do to get that. *shrugs*

As far as the Drake remix...you're talking about this right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMNHLkm1WeY

The only thing that even makes that even remotely Hip Hop is the fact that Drake is on it! lol It's okay I guess but eh...

AYANA SOYINI
Artist/DJ/Producer
Khamouflage Productions
www.facebook.com/djayanasoyini
www.soundcloud.com/khamouflage
www.youtube.com/khamouflage

New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

>>LOL!!! His audience is broader than a lot of 'hip-hop'
>cats.
>
>How so?

I could be wrong but I think he could outsell a venue than a grip of hip-hop beatmakers, and a fair share of MC's.

>
>>He doesn't need to prove himself to hip-hop.
>
>If you want to be embraced by Hip Hop then yes you need to
>prove yourself to that community that what you are doing is
>worthy of attention.

I never said he wants to be embraced. Should he be. Yes. Does he need or want to, nope.

>Perhaps we have different tastes regarding what "bangs" and
>what is "soulful". Can you point out some examples of tracks
>by him that "bang" or are "soulful" to you?

I'd say that Forever remix bangs and is soulful, by example, but you'd disagree. *shrug*

>Some DJ's were spinning punk records yes, but they weren't
>calling it Hip Hop. lol

*record scratch* Grandmaster Flash et al are all looking at you sideways.

>As far as the Bomb Squad goes, it depends on what era you are
>talking about. Their work with Public Enemy and Ice Cube was
>at times both soulful AND banging.

At times. But at times neither. Still hip-hop though.

>Well I never said that he needed Hip Hop but you seem to be
>implying that he wants some kind of Hip Hop acceptance. Thus,
>I gave my opinion on what he needs to do to get that.
>*shrugs*

Nah I'm implying hip-hop needs to embrace him. He don't need nothing, really. He doing fine.

>As far as the Drake remix...you're talking about this right
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMNHLkm1WeY
>
>The only thing that even makes that even remotely Hip Hop is
>the fact that Drake is on it! lol It's okay I guess but eh...

The drums!!

________
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
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>I could be wrong but I think he could outsell a venue than a
>grip of hip-hop beatmakers, and a fair share of MC's.

The operative word being "could". There are alot of cats that theoretically "could" but will they? Until he does...eh. lol



>I never said he wants to be embraced. Should he be. Yes.
>Does he need or want to, nope.


Okay.


>I'd say that Forever remix bangs and is soulful, by example,
>but you'd disagree. *shrug*


Yikes. lol I definitely disagree!


>*record scratch* Grandmaster Flash et al are all looking at
>you sideways.

Well give me some examples then...and please don't say Blondie or The Beastie Boys! lol


>At times. But at times neither. Still hip-hop though.


At times neither soulful or banging...huh? That's revisionism sir!


>Nah I'm implying hip-hop needs to embrace him. He don't need
>nothing, really. He doing fine.


Okay.


>The drums!!

Eh...it didn't move me but the fact you emphatically said "the drums" highlights an earlier point I made referencing some indie rock bands. Just because someone uses a known element of Hip Hop production doesn't mean what they are doing is also Hip Hop. *shrugs*

And just to bring it back to Jimi for a second...Jimi Hendrix revolutionized Rock music yes, but what he was doing was still within the confines of what makes up that genre. He was being progressive while remaining true to what people would deem the roots of the music.

I'm not hearing that with Nosaj at all...

AYANA SOYINI
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New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

>Well I can see why Nosaj Thing is not considered Hip Hop. From
>what I have heard, there are way too many electronica
>elements, sounds and production techniques employed to
>classify that music as Hip Hop. The sound is just way too
>trippy and not in a soulful way at all.


who says hiphop has to be soulful? is eminem soulful?
the man remixed drake. thats hiphop





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"when you apply his techniques from Donuts to other types of music besides soul/R&B, the possibilites are endless."- Small Pro

out

I mean true disciples of Dilla.

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the notion of a true disciple implies 'studied under' not just 'studied'. they don't exist for either artist.

if you refine your request to something that exists i might be able to comply, but depending upon why you're asking you may have reached a conclusion before i can respond.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

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After his first album or after his fifth? Tenth?

Many of those who could qualify for Dilla are still on their first or second album, as such it would be easy to shoot them down now.

That said search the boards for the Nosaj Thing post.
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
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was a hybrid of funk(parliment), rock(Jimi), and soul(Sly)... and I believe the infusion of all those sounds were superbly done. His live show is purely Jimi and James(more Jimi IMO). Obviously his style/appearance was Jimi all day. For You and Prince were kinda similar. Dirty Mind imo was Prince finding himself and his sound, and ultimately began to create his own brand.

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a lot more style over substance/technique to the influence as a whole. I mean are there any Jimi-esque solos from Prince that really measure up? Did Prince adopt Hendrix's rhythm chops?
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there.

Jimi's style costarred to his substance. Even those who try to minimize his overall influence try to focus on the hocus pocus stage and guitar tricks, but they can NEVER discredit the sound. What came from Jimi's guitar was pure soul music in a rock n roll format.

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>Jimi's style costarred to his substance. Even those who try to
>minimize his overall influence try to focus on the hocus pocus
>stage and guitar tricks, but they can NEVER discredit the
>sound.

IMHO the definitive part of Hendrix usually goes understated and his superior rhythm technique. And a big separation point for him and Dilla is that pretty much no one (maybe Ernie Isley) ever really could match up to that. However copyable, thoug Dilla drums are on par with it. I should say, a lot of folk do good imitation but few actually can really get it down to a tee. And on par with Hendrix, a lot of folk think its 'the drums' but a lot of it has to do with the hi-hats which most imitators ignore completely ala Hendrix's rhythm work.

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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
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able to capture him yet. Once I heard Jimi, I could listen to anything he'd ever done, because it made sense. It took me listening to The Wind Cries Mary to really start paying attention, but when I finally bought Axis and heard the intro to Little Wing, I was with him. I haven't heard Dilla's Little Wing yet.

I think Dilla's peers that really appreciate him saw: him work, create, the passion, the pain... they loved him. To them, there may
never be another Dilla... likewise, to Jimi's peers, there will never be another Jimi.

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:)
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
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nm

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"when you apply his techniques from Donuts to other types of music besides soul/R&B, the possibilites are endless."- Small Pro

I came into this topic without a yay or nay opinion. I have never heard anyone compare Dilla to Hendrix so I am asking questions out of a genuine interest in the topic.

AYANA SOYINI
Artist/DJ/Producer
Khamouflage Productions
www.facebook.com/djayanasoyini
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New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

AYANA SOYINI
Artist/DJ/Producer
Khamouflage Productions
www.facebook.com/djayanasoyini
www.soundcloud.com/khamouflage
www.youtube.com/khamouflage

New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

________
<- Big PEMFin H & z's
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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

AYANA SOYINI
Artist/DJ/Producer
Khamouflage Productions
www.facebook.com/djayanasoyini
www.soundcloud.com/khamouflage
www.youtube.com/khamouflage

New single "A Dancing Mood" available now on iTunes & Amazon. Written and produced by Ayana Soyini.

as would mike hampton & ernie isley.

just because they didn't study under hendrix doesn't mean that they're not disciples of jimi.

that's like saying just because mark washington didn't study under larry graham, he's not a disciple of him or his style.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

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I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

Its just saying that no one has fucking revolutionized Hip Hop really all at once like Hendrix did to R&R. If you had to pick "Who was the most innovative in Hip Hop" Dilla would be up there at the top