http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/suge-knight-reflects-on-doggystyle-20-years-later-20131125


This is a really great interview with Suge. He speaks on a lot but one of the things that stand out is him saying that Daz produced much of Doggystyle and that everybody wanted to give Dr. Dre the credit so Daz agreed to allow Dr. Dre to take the credit so long as he got paid.

I know Dr. Dre is a great producer and all but parts of me do believe that Daz did do a lot more than he ended up getting credit for and because Dr. Dre was coming off the heels of The Chronic and is "Dr. Dre" and Daz was the producer with no name, he was cool with just making some money and helping Dr. Dre keep his thing going. Anybody else think the same thing?

Daz did the "beats"

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

Suge's version of the story is over hyped...And should be dissected given his bitter relationship with Dre/Snoop....

There are beats on Doggystyle that Daz indeed produced ("Aint No Fun..." and "Doggy Dogg World" come to mind...)...But he didn't produce "most" of the album...Dre produced a significant amount of Doggystyle...

The question that folks claiming that Dre took all the credit for Doggystyle should ask themselves is has Daz ever produced another song or album on the level of any of the material on Snoop's debut?

I can think of a few tracks like "What Would You Do?"...But overall? Not many...Dogg Food was a good album...But the songs were not Chronic level...He could easily make a song on the level of "Deep Cover" or "Gin & Juice," right? But that didn't happen once Dre left Death Row...

I def. believe that Daz (who is ridiculously underrated) had a hand in producing some tracks on those Dre produced albums/songs of the Death Row era....But to make it out like Dre was playing puppet master and Daz was doing all the heavy lifting?

Nah...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

>The question that folks claiming that Dre took all the credit
>for Doggystyle should ask themselves is has Daz ever produced
>another song or album on the level of any of the material on
>Snoop's debut?

Half of 2Pac's most iconic songs had Daz on production.

Daz did Ambitionz and I Ain't Mad Atcha I believe. Far from half of Pac's "iconic" songs. Daz has some cool stuff in his catalog that I dig but Suge is more than embellishing a bit.

To say Daz never produced anything on the level of his 'Doggystyle' tracks, when he has: 'Ambitionz', 'I Ain't Mad At Ya', 'Amerikaz Most Wanted', 'Got My Mind Made Up', etc. in his catalogue? Ridiculous.

>To say Daz never produced anything on the level of his
>'Doggystyle' tracks, when he has: 'Ambitionz', 'I Ain't Mad At
>Ya', 'Amerikaz Most Wanted', 'Got My Mind Made Up', etc. in
>his catalogue? Ridiculous.


Not at all...Daz' work on Snoop's album was a huge disappointment...And his work on All Eyez On Me had it's moments (again, "Ambitionz..." was pretty fucking dope...), but was in no way on the level of Niggaz For Life, Doggystyle or Chronic...

To me Daz was always a damn "good" underrated producer...But he also had GREAT moments when he collaborated with Dre....The stuff he did with Dre on Above the Rim for example ("Rage's Afro Puff") was equal to Dre's best work...

And as I said "What Would You Do" which he did solo could fuck with a lot of Dre's best work...That's a great song no matter how yu slice it...Production is clean and ridiculously funky...

But I can count on one hand his GREAT moments as a producer...And that's no diss to Dazz could dude was/is fucking dope...

Bottom line: I think the criticism of Dre is at times warranted...But it has now jumped the shark....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I can respect that.

NONE.

-------------------------
�Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.�-- Warren Coolidge

>>The question that folks claiming that Dre took all the
>credit
>>for Doggystyle should ask themselves is has Daz ever
>produced
>>another song or album on the level of any of the material on
>>Snoop's debut?
>
>Half of 2Pac's most iconic songs had Daz on production.

The truth is...Pac's most overrated album is All Eyez On Me beyond the dopeness of "Ambitionz Az A Ridah".......Makeveli was MUCH better...That double Pac album had A LOT of filler and some very cheesy moments...Even the Dre song on there was iffy as hell and got by on the hype of Pac signing with Death Row...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

**shrug**

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

especially re: Snoop and Dre should be taken like, 1% seriously.

Then the rest of what you said is on point too.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I think it was Snoop who made that point that some of these producers who others claim made Dre's beats, haven't really made anything on that level on their own, and how they did work and had a hand in things, but Dre was the producer who took the beats to the next level.

but not as good when he's not working with dre imo. but i love a whole bunch of daz beats.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

and got even bigger post death row. suge lost and blew it.

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>and got even bigger post death row. suge lost and blew it.

pardon my language

never heard that story before.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

swept under the rug (see Pimp C rant in Ozone).

Suge still is gonna have a shit-starty tone to anything regarding that era.

____________
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did most of the production on 'The Chronic' couldn't produce some other quality material to back up this claim?

Dr. Dre has worked w/o those dudes and he still made great music.

grassrootsphilosopher

Especially commercially.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Like I know he can do both; make beats and produce a songs but I think he's real strength is having a team of beat makers and making the best out of what beats they've done and then adding his own 2 cents (ideas for what could make the song better). Like for example, coming up with how they rapper will rap on the song, the chorus work, what lyrics should be changed, added or cut and then concepts for a song to the beat and then adding or stripping things to the beat. That's where Dre shines the most in my opinion.

I think Daz does both like Dre but I think he's the opposite of Dre, he (Daz) shines more with beatmaking then he does with producing. Whereas Dre shines more with producing then he does beatmaking.

I know Suge is probably still bitter about how he lost an empire and all but I still do think there's some truth to what he's saying but I think what most people don't understand is the difference between producing and beatmaking.

you see Interscope pimped Suge and Iovine and Ted Fields bough Death Row and sold things for even more.

Suge ain't had no new cash in almost 20 years.

Suge at first was on the game, but he got seduced and thought he was the star and it was downhill after that.

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was when Suge flipped & started believing that he was the guy people were paying to see and hear.

Suge's mistake was not staying in the background and just minding the business part of the game. He got caught up in the bright lights and his own hype. He should've just let all of his artist do the entertaining while he kicked back and just made sure business stayed on point.

But I highly doubt that Suge is flat out broke. Sure, he ain't 96' rich but I don't think he's anywhere near trying to find a job at a Wal-Mart. Suge is a hustler.

I agree that his newfound thirst for the spotlight contributed to his downfall but I think that it was moreso people tiring of his gangland tactics, especially considering he used them with his own people, and they started to move on. Not to mention he started playing Jerry/Eazy and fucked with his artists' money.

In essence I think Death Row was doomed from the start cause the only thing Suge knew was how to intimidate. His business sense was alright but 80% of what he accumulated in talent and money came from brute force, let's be honest.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Suge didn't know when to fall back when all the gangsta shit. He didn't know how to really communicate without coming off intimating when it didn't always call for it. Suge brought into his own hype.

Dre made them songs!"

He spoke on how Warren had the melody for Ain't no fun, but Dre came and filled it all the way out.

I've heard a LOT, lot lot of DPG/Death Row era demos...and I can tell what happened. It's where Daz may have the melody, bassline, drum pattern, etc...but the "mix" and polish Dre put on it took it to a whole different level. And even then, you can tell Daz didn't do everything on it to that extent.

What's my name, Gin n juice, Murder was the case, those feel way more like Dre. I can see Daz having his hands in a Serial Killa, Doggy Dogg World, maaaybe even Tha Shiznit. But his beats just felt and sounded different from what's on Doggystyle, meaning that if he did do more than we know, Dre still twisted them up a whole lot.

------------------------------

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As I said in a couple of post above this, I think where Dre comes in and shines the most is in the producing. He can make beats and produce but for the most part he's producing; which means he's adding things here and there to a beat and making it into a song. Another thing I think he does as a producer is conducting the rapper or emcees who rap on the song how to rap or approach the song. Dre's got the vision when it comes to making a song and an album.

Dre is really is a producer's producer. Daz is just a better beatmaker than he (Daz) is a producer. Daz can produce but that's not where he shines the most, beatmaking is his shit.

Daz got some talent, however Dre got the name and is the Producer. all you need to know that is death row never had the same heights post Dr dre exit door 1.

aftermath blew death row away as well. because Dre kept bringing in acts and kept it moving. EMinem alone had to have gotten under Suge's skin.

then the game 50 cent all that spin off.


had suge been cool then he would be where Baby Williams is now and have had a lock on the game.

come on no other label since Death Row had as many superstars and I put that word Boldly because a Dr. DRE, A Snoop and a 2Pac as a free agent? give me a break. that is a Dynasty and that is a triple threat. they were the 90's big three. put it like this Pat Riley wouldn't have blown that lineup

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

Historically the producer has always been the guy who made the beats. Then Dre steals someone elses work, adds a few minor touches and mixes the record and now that is called producing. As far as im concerned, Cold187um, Daz, Warren G, Soopafly, Quik are the producers behind Dre's hits, Dre just oversaw the project and stole other peoples shine...

and Quik is the best of that lot and he ain't had that protege or dropped that game changer unless you is a west coast fan, je never met that standard.

you can hate on dr.dre however there is a reason he is a superstar and those cats are stars. big difference.

think about this and chew on this: suge had to get a starting 5 of producers to do what one dr.dre did. nuff said and after dre left death row was only a threat in name only once suge killed pac off litterly and as a artist.

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

all them dudes are the musicians and he's the composer. a producer doesn't have to play every note on the track (or any for that matter)...they bring it all together and build it into a song.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

in the studio together and it had never been done before...ive heard this mentioned before over the years...i always wondered how they were able to do that and keep shit cool, esp during that time in the early 90s, where bangin was especially prevalent...how were they able to mix like that, was it just the money? whats the science on that (reds and blues intermingling and even being cool with each other) from a cultural standpoint?

But not all crips and bloods have beef. Some red hoods and blue hoods actually get along/form alliances anyway. A lot of crips have bigger issues with other crips than they do with bloods (i.e. Rollin' 60s vs Eight Tray Gangsters, etc.) With all the money that stood to be made, I could see crips and bloods puttin' the bullshit on the backburner...'til somebody gets disrespectful.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Gotta hear both sides

he didnt produce anything on these albums. music is filled with guys who had an early burst of greatness then didnt do much after - could be the same with daz, warren etc (the first dogg pound album had tons of good beats on it though, but yeah, you can tell the difference between a daz and dre beat).

obv these guys can produce on their own and are still doing it, but i think its easy to get caught up in thinking they werent shit without dre, or equally the opposite, when its really messier than that. you cant really pin down who did what here that easily i think. and with all the live musicians who worked on the chronic/dogggystyle, it gets even messier. i know okp likes absolutes but these arent the records you can do that very easily with - its not like they were all just submitting beats, like with illmatic.

but none of these guys were ever the same after death row, dre included. death row seems like it was everyone piled into a studio and throwing ideas around all together (whether its daz coming up with ideas for beats, or snoop and doc writing for dre, etc etc) - no wonder no one knows who did what.

>death row seems like it was everyone piled into a
>studio and throwing ideas around all together (whether its daz
>coming up with ideas for beats, or snoop and doc writing for
>dre, etc etc)
as far as I am concerned, they (Dre included) all peaked musically when they were working together on Death Row. Dre went on to find a new cinematic beat trope (and mixing obsession) that he ran into the ground and Snoop remained a huge rap star post Death Row but if we're talking fully realised songs?
The Chronic, Doggystyle,Murder Was the Case, Dogg Food. PEAK!

Even the most talented artists' best music is often the result of collaboration, IMO. MJ/Quincy, Kanye/Brion, Death Row, etc. Snoop was at his best when getting writing tips from DOC and vocal tips from Dre. Dre was at his best when getting production tips from Daz, Yella, Warren G. Etc.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

chronic, dogggystle, and dogg food are all classics. deathrow could do no wrong at the time.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

Are you trying to make a point? If so, make it.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>Are you trying to make a point? If so, make it.

____________
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Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

So that collaboration element was still there.

great album but not as organic, urgent or spontaneous as The Chronic.
The dynamic they had in the early Death Row days was incredible.
Dre is credited with being the mastermind but he is also benefitted and was inspired by the hungry young guns who he took under his wing. And I suspect he was more democratic and easy going back then than he is now. He is so tightly wound and such a control freak that there's hardly anything coming out from his studio. In his mind, he is a great Engineer but there was nothing wrong with the engineering on Doggystyle anyway.

that album is so perfectly mixed and engineered, i think it loses something

i think he relaxed a little at death row, but then it came back again when he was doing 2001, and now that perfectionism (aka lack of self belief) has become his main obstacle, as well as his need to reinvent himself, which i think he has had trouble with since death row ended....

that sterile, clinical sound of 2001 i think takes out a lot of the looser, funkier stuff he used to do - its hard to do that when youre trying to get perfect mix downs and be really minimal sonically

dre was never like timbaland, but i think trying to compete in that/this era (god knows how he feels about todays producers, id love to know) was a challenge for him... hes so aware of his reputation, he prob doesnt want to sound 'old'.

the problem with this board/hip hop fans in general is that collaboration is seen almost as a weakness, but dre is someone that has ALWAYS been a guy who thrives depending on whos around him, whether its ruthless or death row. i dont see this as a bad thing. in the 90s there were probably more rumours than facts floating around, so i wonder if all the stuff people say about him now (and believe) has also crippled him a bit.

>that album is so perfectly mixed and engineered, i think it
>loses something
>
>i think he relaxed a little at death row, but then it came
>back again when he was doing 2001, and now that perfectionism
>(aka lack of self belief) has become his main obstacle, as
>well as his need to reinvent himself, which i think he has had
>trouble with since death row ended....
>
>that sterile, clinical sound of 2001 i think takes out a lot
>of the looser, funkier stuff he used to do - its hard to do
>that when youre trying to get perfect mix downs and be really
>minimal sonically

Yo - I've been saying this since the day that album dropped but was never able to put it into words like you just did. But I couldn't agree more. While the mastering is flawless, it's almost as if he traded the density and complexity of his earlier beats for a more "clean" sound and I think the beats suffered for it. I love 2001 and always have but compared to Efil4zaggin and The Chronic the beats are missing something. They're actually missing a lot. All of them sound stripped down and almost like there's too much empty space where music used to be/should be. Whereas, on The Chronic, Dre didn't waste any space in a beat and in fact, packed his beats with subtle instrumental pieces or hard-hitting sound affects to complete the beats. Perhaps those "space fillers" were Yella and Daz influenced but I just think that, like you said, he may have just become so obsessed with the engineering and mixing aspect that he minimalized his tracks and stripped them down, and they suffered for it.


>dre was never like timbaland, but i think trying to compete in
>that/this era (god knows how he feels about todays producers,
>id love to know) was a challenge for him... hes so aware of
>his reputation, he prob doesnt want to sound 'old'.

That may be true. As you get older, you become more self aware and almost guarded about who you are whereas I feel like as a younger cat you're more willing to loosen up and experiment, and that might speak true to Dre's production work as it seemed like he was more experimental in his early days and willing to dip his toes in different waters, whereas as the years went on his work started to sound very similar.


>the problem with this board/hip hop fans in general is that
>collaboration is seen almost as a weakness, but dre is someone
>that has ALWAYS been a guy who thrives depending on whos
>around him, whether its ruthless or death row. i dont see this
>as a bad thing. in the 90s there were probably more rumours
>than facts floating around, so i wonder if all the stuff
>people say about him now (and believe) has also crippled him a
>bit.

Dre --- and everybody else. There isn't one hip-hop artist you came name who had or would have the type of success Dre has had (both critically and commercially) without having a good team around him. This isn't limited to just hip-hop or even music, either. But everyone needs a couple hands on deck to fully realize their visions. Dre's no different. But the difference is that Dre still has the talent to make things happen on his own, albeit to a lesser extent, whereas the cats around him can't do half of what he does without him.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>great album but not as organic, urgent or spontaneous as The
>Chronic.
>The dynamic they had in the early Death Row days was
>incredible.
>Dre is credited with being the mastermind but he is also
>benefitted and was inspired by the hungry young guns who he
>took under his wing. And I suspect he was more democratic and
>easy going back then than he is now. He is so tightly wound
>and such a control freak that there's hardly anything coming
>out from his studio. In his mind, he is a great Engineer but
>there was nothing wrong with the engineering on Doggystyle
>anyway.

I think it was really the perfect storm of a situation. It was the 90s so hip-hop was still getting its legs and therefore the term "production" wasn't so scrutinized and everyone was sorta able to accept and more importantly, recognize that Dre was doing the heavy, important work making the tracks happen while he had the young guns just running samples and stripped down ideas to him. Dre turned them into masterpieces.

While I agree that perhaps Daz and Warren should've had their names somewhere, or at least mentioned, I think it's ludicrous for them to have come out after the fact saying "I produced that song/album!" when they know damn well they didn't.

And Dre's influence is clearly felt on Dogg Food. Sure, they sound like Daz beats but the crispness of the mastering and the completeness of the sound is something that Daz hasn't been able to duplicate since.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Tired of posting this shit every time someone tries to shit on Dre:

http://www.dubcnn.com/interviews/snoopdogg06/part4/

Interview was done on July 24th 2006

Dubcnn: It's crazy you say that though. A lot of people been saying that for a long time.

Snoop: Nah, but when I say that, it's not disrespect, because them niggas will bring a track that sounds cool, but when he's finished with it, that muthafucka is immaculate. Like for example if you were to hear the Stevie Wonder song that Busta Rhymes brought to Dre before Dre touched it, you would think it's two different songs.

Dubcnn: But he still should get some production credit though.

Snoop: But, at the same time, Dre didn't take that from Sha Money. And when he was doing that for niggas back in the days, they didn't deserve to have their name in the game like that, because he did all of the work! So what you found a sample and you got a cool little drum file, but he brought the shit to life, so he really produced the track! Producing is bringing the track to life! Beatmakers make beats. A lot of niggas make beats. He produces tracks. So that ain't disrespect what I'm saying. I'm just telling you what's real.

I seen him make tracks from scratch. My whole record the nigga made damn near everything from scratch. "Ain't No Fun", Daz and Warren G brought him the little *sings melody*, that's all they had! Dre took that muthafucka to the next level! Warren G brought in the Donny Hathaway, "Little Ghetto Boy, laying in the ghetto streets." Dre flipped it like "Hold on, gimme that!" Took that muthafucka and made it straight hit!

Dubcnn: So you're saying it's wrong that Daz or Warren G would claim that they didn't get the credit they deserved on The Chronic or Doggystyle?

Snoop: I'ma say it like this- they didn't deserve the credit back then because they didn't do the work. They made beats, Dre produced that record. Point blank, and I'd say it in they face. They made beats, cuzz produced the record. If you a real nigga in the rap game, you'll understand what I'm saying. I can make a beat, but I can't produce! I can make a beat, but can I tell a nigga what to rap about, can I tell him when to come with the hook? Can you break the beat down? That's what producing is.

Dubcnn: Right, but if I brought in the beat, I would still want my name somewhere.

Snoop: But, if you brought in the beat, that's all you did, was brought in the beat. You didn't produce this record. This song says "Produced by" not "brought in the beat by". Keep it real! So that's what niggas got wrong, and they started pointing fingers and try to bad mouth him, when in actuality Dre doesn't need y'all, y'all needed him! Because this shit y'all learned from him, that made y'all better producers. He didn't learn shit from y'all! See that's what niggas don't understand! Before The Chronic, how many hit records did Dre have before that? Everything he made was a hit record right?

Dubcnn: Right.

Snoop: How many hits did Warren G make, how many hits did Daz make? None. None. Okay now, look at the tracks that they produced on The Chronic. Did they have any records like that by theyselves? No. You answer the question for me!

Dubcnn: Maybe on Dogg Food?

Snoop: Come on man! Dogg Food was produced by Soopafly, Daz and Dr. Dre!

Dubcnn: Dre mixed it right?

Snoop: No, Dre produced a lot of that shit! I'm telling you, Daz and them brought Dre beats, and he produced the muthafuckas! "What Would You Do" was just a beat that Daz had did. That "bu-bump, bu-bump", the nigga Dre put all that shit on it, that *sings* What would you do, whaa *sings* just to give it that other shit! I'm telling you what I know man! Niggas gotta give Dre the ultimate respect. Niggas try to bash him and cut his knees down like he didn't do nothing nigga, he's the saviour man! Because what he did was, he showed niggas how to produce. Because niggas was good at making beats, but he showed you niggas how to produce! If ya'll had really did what ya'll say ya'll did, ya'll woulda put records out that sold 3-4 million on your own, like he did. I still have to see it!

All the records that they put out solo wise, GARBAGE. Warren G's last record, HOT TO DEATH. The records in between, I don't know. And these are my homeboys, I don't lie to you, I tell it like it is!

mind
--------
matter

Dre proved and made his mark period.

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give Dre his credit, but give the other niggas their credit too
should be an easy thing to do but it seems to stump both sides

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

Jimmy Iovine wouldn't put no loot on them if they had the goods?

bottom line Dr Dre is that face and has that brand down pat period.

the chronic and doggystyle alone speak to the man and what he meant to NWA as well.

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

we're talking about who did what in the studio, as murky as it is sometimes, and how credit should be doled out

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

They're even.

mind
--------
matter

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

is bitter and madd, because he could have set the records sraight as to what was what and he didn't back then, however 40 years later he still crying over Dr Dre moving on

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

in 20 years when he is collecting his Social Security checks he will still be crying and moaning about Dr Dre. it ain't that far fetched if you know how Suge stays bitter for a long,long,long time.

Suge outta be just madd at the Man in the Mirror@Michael Jackson

he blew it period

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Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

all of the beats on doggystyle have the same sound texture.

they all sound like they were produced by dr. dre, with barney on keys, butch on drums, tony green on bass, etc etc.

all of the "final version" of songs that is.

i'm sure some of them, maybe even most of them, had corresponding "original version" where the music was made by daz and or warren g. so you can look at it like that as to who made what music, if you want to think of it in those terms rather than who "produced" what.