I just wanted to reiterate how I was talking about this.
Here.
In 1999.
And many folks were like what?! No shit up uhuh etc
And now here we are in 2024
And the so called ADOS (which is goofy) are virulent all over the net
The so called Foundational Blacks...(Goofier)
All over the net
Now I'm not saying I started this discussion of course I will always give props to and attribute all of this including what reparations entails to NCOBRA and Dr Imari Obadele specifically
But I am also going to loudly proclaim that I carried that torch here. Solo. And got talked about BAD for it
And just like how I said the jheri curl would come back in....I was right again
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 82090 posts
Tue Sep-24-24 08:05 AM
4. "Black is American born from descendants of slaves" In response to Reply # 2
and can’t trace their origins (not talking about 23 and me).
black is anyone who was born in Africa or the islands (I think) or are the descendants of parents or grandparents who still have a connection to “home”
but this is just my interpretation, OP and others may have a better explanation.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
For decades we didn't know all this vitriol and hatred existed for us until people were honest on social media about the values they were taught. "WE" does not mean "YOU" it means anyone that has delineated and proudly represents their heritage.
They are not labeled as divisive, xenophobic, hateful, or a hate group because they are from a lineage just like us.
People from different regions delineate themselves from us and there's nothing wrong with that. The issue at hand is those highly vocal minority of black immigrants undermining us in various ways for benefit erasing one-sided pan-africanism.
People separated themselves, we said okay fight your own battles, and now they're whining about it online. This is not a movement but respect for actions over decades........
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 82090 posts
Tue Sep-24-24 10:59 AM
6. "of all the Black folk to quote you picked Candice Owens?" In response to Reply # 5
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
9. "While I do not necessarily disagree" In response to Reply # 7
Many respected scholars have discussed the pre-Columbian presence of Africans in the Americas with some even going so far as to say they may have indigenous
What makes you so confident that it would be nonsense and thinking that it should be dismissed?
Afro-centrism can be problematic if untrue but it seems that it’s often people who aren’t Black (with the capital letter) disavowing it
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 82090 posts
Tue Sep-24-24 03:07 PM
10. "or they are married to someone who isn’t capital B" In response to Reply # 9
which I totally understand their defensiveness but it is what it is..
we know for damn sure anyone Black is not going to be embraced as African, Jamaican or Caribbean when they go back to see their SO’s people.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
12. "Off the top of my head" In response to Reply # 11
I believe Runoko Rashidi not only spoke about a pre-Columbia presence but indicated that Blacks may be indigenous
He worked with or was mentored by Ivan Van Sertima, who authored They Came Before Columbus
Besides that
Some believe Europeans mentions seeing Blacks on the continent when they got here
Some native tribes are presumed to be Black
I wouldn’t tell anyone that I believe there to be a pre-Columbian Black or indigenous Black history because i haven’t done too much research.
There is a book called History in Black written by a Jewish scholar who attempts to debunk Afro-centrism and basically says it’s dangerous because it leaves Blacks out of touch.
I try to acknowledge that this could be BUT he’s not Black. How can people be so sure of what may happened hundreds of years ago if that’s not their field of study. Even scholars debate these topics.
If anything Black people may be too myopic.
Still, I even question those who say it’s DEFINITELY a pre-Columbian presence.
13. "Yeah but unless I am wrong, all that scholarship is based on...." In response to Reply # 12
"look at the broad nose of this statute found in central america. Must be Africans"
Meanwhile since a lot of that scholarship so much has been done with DNA testing and mapping we've gotten the most detailed picture of migration patterns we've ever seen.
So much of this scholarship seems to be driven by a need to prove we were here first that gives us some claim to some birthright here in the states that doesn't involve slavery and I've never felt that black people "needed" that. We should know our worth and be proud to be descendants of slaves.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
23. "RE: Yeah but unless I am wrong, all that scholarship is based on...." In response to Reply # 13
Being proud of being a descendant of people who were enslaved is a hard formula for pride, however when I consider how far we've come despite slave masters, slave abiders, night riders, KKK, not having the adjacency to whiteness and the overall consistent turning wheels of racism, I have a lot of pride.
Whether we are descended from enslaved peoples from Africa or were here pre-Colombus, were still in the same shape in this country. Racist and their systems are giving us a break or checking for our genealogy while staring at our obvious Black based Afrocentric features.
32. "You could name as many alternatives as Dr. Strange" In response to Reply # 31
And yet we’re still in today’s predicament.
The argument over how or when we got or have been here is just as open as what religion is best for us to follow or guide us. It’s a song that never ends and in the long run nothing really changes because we now know.
34. "For personal growth and development, yes" In response to Reply # 33
But we’ve down that road a time or 200. Its only creates more philosophies in both and we dont need another ‘true way to go’. We need a blanket that no matter where we’re from, what we believe or what good or bad we’ve done, we’re covered by it. Cause at this point were just searching for more ways to separate ourselves.
8. "Olmec heads? I'm curious too" In response to Reply # 3
My NDN homie put me on to Native scholars who do not like the land bridge from Asia theory since it makes EVERYONE an immigrant to the Americas at some point. in that worldview, 'Indigenousness' is rendered entirely relative. I don't think many people buy into it
I have seen Black Indigenous talk online but when looking it up just now someone on Quora linked this website as 'proof'. I think if anything it may date African presence in South America to much earlier than North America, but I don't see much else.
24. "but what about the everything started in Africa theory?" In response to Reply # 8
I'm not certain if theory is the right word considering many renowned scientist/studies have proof.
If other nations and ethnicities are people who migrated from Africa via pangea times etc, wouldn't that mean that the only people native to a land are Africans?
On another note we rarely question the 'nativeness' of whites or their rights in lands they are not indigenous to. There's also no question of them being white when seen nor do they take the time to correct anyone in calling them white vs their indigenous connections (Italian, Irish, English, French, Turkish bla bla bla)
42. "That's a rather large adjustment." In response to Reply # 37
>It’s almost certain that Black people were here first.
it's quite certain that they were not.
> >It’s almost certainly racist to oppose that idea.
it's most certainly not. It's actually almost certainly offensive to promote that idea, which would presume that Native Americans were not the original inhabitants in this land.
16. "It has become a somewhat new idea" In response to Reply # 15 Mon Sep-30-24 11:46 PM by csuave03
Not really though, of course Black people have been delineating for decades at least. These new terms have specific purposes according to their constituents. I see how many would disagree with that last sentence however. I’m trying to be brief and constructive.
I do like the capital B because it signifies an ethnic group thus the capitalization. It goes beyond a color.
I don’t like adopting certain terms because they can usually be traced to a certain progenitor. Like African-Americans with Jesse Jackson.
I roll with Black American personally but I like the discussions and debates stemming from alternative views.
17. "Outside of the Internet FBA and ADOS are a joke" In response to Reply # 0
Yvette Carnell is not taken seriously.
Tariq Nasheed got mad he was kicked off the ADOS failwagon by Yvette and created the mutated FBA.
He switched sides from Pan African to Captain America negro when his house got swatted and he owed taxes.
Both are terrible black nativist hashtags that are nothing more than begging white folks to actually be included in this colonial project called America more than just as the exploited underclass in perpetuity.
It's not about reparations, it's not even about actual rights it's about attention and being accepted by the reject criminals of Europe that have shown over and over they would rather cut their nose to spite their face than let stolen Africans gain any type of political, economic or social power.
19. "I agree on both points and have no problem with us defining ourselves " In response to Reply # 18 Thu Oct-10-24 12:31 PM by Musa
My issue is the radical integration masked as self definition.
No African American in their right mind would say the US flag represents them.
No African American in their right mind would disconnect themselves from their ancestry and start their "lineage" with being captives in another people's colony.
Using Black as a semantic as something other than African is silly when that title was given to us by colonizers via the Virgina Black codes of 1705 and prior to 1964 to be called Black was fighting words. A pan African from Trinidad, Kwame Ture coined Black and Black power.
These are the people that would rather be called negro if they were of age before 1964.
25. "RE: I agree on both points and have no problem with us defining ourselve..." In response to Reply # 19
Despite Kwame pushing Black to Black Power, why do you feel someone recognizing themselves as Black is bad?
I get what you mean about white folks coining it in the 1700's for the black codes, but it appears they purposely had to throw away their indigenous identity to label us. What was once fight words in 1964 is loved as a common connection between us as a people and still with an understanding of the diaspora and the roots of our ancestors being Africans.
I don't see how Black should be silly or taboo to identify ourselves, particularly in North America.
I only see it as silly when it is differentiated from African American. It then turns into I'm not African I'm Black lacking and fundamental understanding that the two are synonymous. I think it's frivolous and the sign of psychosis.
47. "That would mean that black people were calling themselves black" In response to Reply # 46
prior to the European. I don't know how black would have context unless of course there were other races. Other races are depicted in Ancient Egyptian art but I still have other questions about blackness even if those other races were known at the time kmt was named. E.g., what race were Nubians considered to be?
>because they spoke different languages for one thing.
It still doesn't explain why they were specifically called kmt. Different languages are spoken in modern day Africa, most of the people there are still black regardless of language.
Why wasn't the whole continent known as ta-nahesi?
50. "not gonna lie, I was listening to this one podcast" In response to Reply # 0
talking about Obama (it was one of those "NPR"-type deals, but not from NPR) and they were making those sort of comments about him and I was like, "damn, that sounds like something Bin Dogg would say" LOL
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