Beyonce's rollout of Country Carter reminds us that she is still a superstar. Taylor Swift tour and dominance in the media makes clear she is a superstar.

But have these two joined the pantheon of Prince, MJJ, Madonna, Whitney? Should anyone else be included in the same realm as Prince, MJJ, Madonna, Whitney?

In my mind they are the Big 4 but that's probably sentimentality more than an objective look at the 4 biggest solo acts of all time. Would you have a different Big 4 or 5?

Just looking at numbers I guess Elton John, Elvis, Eminem, Mariah Carey, and Celine Deon are also superstars.

Is that it?

Again, if you go one level down on sales, the list of Superstars could also include Drake, Garth Brooks, Kanye West, Billy Joel, Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran, and Bruno Mars. It already feels different, though, because you have to say their full names.

But that's just me. Are these folks in the same realm as Prince, MJJ, Madonna, Whitney? Maybe its not supported by album sales, but I do think Stevie belongs in the group with the other one name superstars.

Then my next question is the Age of Superstars over? Will there ever been acts as big and universal as my Big 4? Bad Bunny?

Or even lowering the Bar, are there any singers who can achieve Beyonce or Taylor Swift levels? I still think Bruno Mars has a Thriller in him.

Anyway, back the original question: Are we witnessing the last of the age of superstars, is it already over, or none of the above?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>Again, if you go one level down on sales, the list of
>Superstars could also include Drake, Garth Brooks, Kanye West,
>Billy Joel, Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran, and Bruno Mars. It
>already feels different, though, because you have to say their
>full names.

What's the alternative for, say, Drake ? lol

Drake
Garth
Kanye
Bieber
Bruno

None of those are full names and, maybe save Bruno Mars, you could say those one words and everyone would know who you're talking about.

I don't really have thoughts on your original question, I just thought that was a weird comment and I'm bored haha.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

there will be big stars but they will all move in their own lanes. broad appeal is over.

also Kanye is absolutely in that air no matter how you feel about him. dude ran music, fashion and culture and still moves the needle in a major way with whatever he does.

<--- Big Baller World Order

>also Kanye is absolutely in that air no matter how you feel
>about him. dude ran music, fashion and culture and still moves
>the needle in a major way with whatever he does.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>there will be big stars but they will all move in their own
>lanes. broad appeal is over.
>
>also Kanye is absolutely in that air no matter how you feel
>about him. dude ran music, fashion and culture and still moves
>the needle in a major way with whatever he does.

I'm with you. Kanye was there. Still kinda is even without the jams to back him up as often.

Is broad appeal being over a bad thing? This is NOT me being snarky at all. This is me pondering the topic because I struggle with it. I kinda think it is a bad thing in terms of 'quality control'. IE: if you hear Thriller, someone can't show up with something wack and slide it by you during the same period of time. Cuz you had to take Thriller out of the player to throw on something else. But now, if there's no 'Thriller', then anything can end up on the player, right? IDK.

On one hand, a dude like Roc Marciano has a whole azz following in the current universe. He can show up and rattle off MF DOOM homage goodness and drop 'you have to be a certain age to get that embedded reference/joke' lines all over the place. Little to no drums. No chick songs. No radio. No lil whoever as guests. None of that! Mix in NY rapper hilarious singing outbreaks and here we are! And he clearly makes enough $ off of that to make it make sense for him to do another one in a couple years or whenever he feels like it (unless I'm reading his situation wrong!). Would this still be a thing if there like 5 rappers who made the world stop (in a good way) every time they drop?

On the other, any artist who gets even kinda big is a lock to take on ridiculous backlash, comparisons, and other 'rain on a parade' type activity to the point where they need an insane universe built around them to thrive (Kenny had Dre, Aubrey had Houston, Chicago, and whatever ghost-writing agreement deal he made with assorted devils, Beyonce has JayZ and the Hive, Taylor also has funding and a following).

I keep saying 'it ain't worth it to try to be a huge artist now so most people don't even try too hard to do it'.

I'm sitting around looking at Beyonce for instance: dance album, country album, and whatever the last leg of this 3-part album is gonna be. And it feels like she's gotta do this stuff cuz 'show up with some jams about love stuff + how cute and rich you are' by itself ain't enough for her and hasn't been for a while. AKA she's gotta dress that shit up! Haha. She's charged with the challenge of trying to 'make a wave' every time. And really, these last two are more like her doing a shake and bake with an existing wave. But hey, THAT MAKES SENSE! And even before that, Lemonade was her Jagged Little Pill. AKA the 'oh, you're nowhere near as mad at your dude as I've been with mine! Check THIS out!' album. That one worked even as some people were somehow mad that she didn't really leave the dude. AND bonus for Jay: he gets to bring up 'almost losing her' whenever he gets bored enough to switch subjects (and I love Jay so hush).

It seems like so many acts want to be Roc Marci (but a tad bit richer) vs trying to be The Weeknd. And even with The Weeknd, he started off more Roc Marci than Taylor and then kinda stumbled into being SB eligible big once the MJ comparisons made a magic carpet around him. Also, he's somehow become the avatar for 'sexy sounding music' that lands in the background of TikToks all the time. Its wild.

The SB seemed to be too grand for him IMO. He aint there yet.

Roc is a weird one because like you said, no drums, just rhymes.. same cadence for most songs but his fans love it. If he is making 6 figures doing that why change? Its a nice picket to be in.

Youtube changed the game. You can blow without major funding if you time things right and have that song that connects with the users.

I remember when getting signed was the top of the mountain and then Masta P changed the game. You can sell 50K units and make more than a signed artist who sold a mill unite.

I don’t even follow new stuff like that anymore but it feels like the wild west where anything can blow at any moment but that run is shorter unless you play shit perfectly or get the machine behind you.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

That shyt makes absolutely no sense within the topic of this post


____________

DALLAS LAKERICKS LETS GO!!

quality mainstream popular music, they'll join the pantheon too.

The lack of new members in that club reflects the lower quality of the music now.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

(I think at least) I believe J is the initial for his middle name.

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

We'll never get another MJ, but maybe an Alicia Keys or Maroon 5 will have a bit of crossover success and become more known then their rivals.

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

And that Michael made $130+ million. Don't know the accuracy of that statement, but there's not one modern act or singer that could even get close to that figure.

(won't even mention how the label gouged the fuck out of him if that's true)

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

you weren’t owning masters or getting great deals back then.

Also think about all the bullshit they add to expenses of the artist. Touring, sessions, costume, etc.. all that comes out of the artist pockets.

fucking ridiculous when you think about all the money artist generate.


You want to see some real thievery, check out DMX album sales vs what his estate was worth when he passed. Dude sold 74 million records. 5 number 1 albums.

and they said his estate was valued at 50K when he died.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Even looking at your big 4, all of them reached their heights in a specific decade. The 80s. The 80s was a time of maximalism, of excess, of celebrity. Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous comes out of the 80s, "Pass The Grey Poupon," adoration of the upper class, "greed is good," the just insane celebrity of someone like Michael. All that kind of shit. The world isn't like that anymore and until/unless society returns to that kind of worldview, you won't see another MJ, Prince, Madonna, Whitney...

Beyonce and Taylor swift are as close as it gets, and they're still not even that close to that.

The 80s was really a strange time. The way we looked at the rich and famous the culture we created around celebrity during that time was perverse. I have a hard time seeing us going back to the ways of thinking that were so common then, that the rich are better than the rest of us. I have a hard time seeing that happen, but I suppose it could.

We still celebrate celebrity but not to the same degree, we're more cynical, and maybe even harder to market to than then.

That being said, I think it's interesting to think about this from a non-Western, or no USA kind of perspective. You mentioned Bad Bunny, and his situation is fascinating because non-Spanish speakers/non-Latinos don't seem to realize just hot big he actually is. Then you've gotta think about a group like BTS as well. They're insanely big. I'd be really interested to see someone from a non-Western perspective even speak on your big 4 within their specific cultural context.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

yep

that took stardom to a whole other level.

Taylor and Beyonce are probably the last ones. I know you hate Ye but dude is on that level. He just lost his shit or believed he was God. Brittany Spears would’ve been up there if she didn’t lose her shit.

Drake is the closest after Ye when it comes to superstar status.

but aint no one selling albums like in the 80’s and 90’s and no one is making kids pass out like MJ back in the day.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

As for current folks: Beyonce. Taylor. Bruno. Who else do we have now? And why do we not think that's enough for now? Hehe!

In my mind, Bruno is the 'last one' to get in. He made his Don't Be Cruel already (and didn't even try to hide that he was doing it sonically!). I don't know if he has a Thriller in him that could make him somehow even bigger. But he's a made man: he's got hella HIT songs, he can spin a wheel and charge whatever it lands on for tix to his shows, AND he even took the time to link with my dude .Paak with the Silk Sonic run (which they made look like mountains of fun). And I keep bringing this up but if he did the Super Bowl every 5 years or so, no serious person would scoff at it for a long while. AND outside of folks claiming he had gambling debts, I don't hear about him unless he's singing, finna sing, or just got through singing.

Weeknd is closer to it than anyone would've guessed, too right? His music gets hella listens for sure even if he doesn't give off obvious 'superstar' vibes. Eminem is at least there too, right?

To attempt to answer the question: there's not gonna be anymore MJs and them after the ones I think we have now. Here's my whys:

1. We're too deep into the 'haters have too much of a voice' era for anyone to get that type of 'universal' hugeness. See Aubrey. He's got the stream #s but he's not 'that guy' in that way. And I like a lot of his stuff so I'm not hatin! But gees, if ANYONE makes ANYTHING jamming ever, there's gonna be a 'better than Drake' dialog.

2. Everyone being their own DJ along with their algorithms makes things harder too. AKA it is DIFFICULT to be ubiquitous/inevitable now, right?

IE: we're talking about the 'main' folks in the 80s, but there's like 20 acts from that time who have songs where anyone who was around during that time can hear the first 30 seconds and be like 'oh shit, Living on a Prayer!' or whatever. I think its harder to get even that status now because most people are making their own playlists.

IE: my kid is 15 and her playlist (curated by her with EVERY song that she claims to like) is like 400 songs. She considers the early 2010s as the golden age of her musical life. Most of her hiphop stuff is Eminem cuz algos. I played Notorious Thugs for her while explaining what was happening and her brain exploded. I also played Hit Em Up with an explanation. She was then not shocked to find out that both Big and Pac were both dead via gunshots.

3. And really, even those of us who say they want a superstar somehow. But really? We've all seen too much! Folks OD'ing (MJ, Whitney, Rick James, George Michael, etc). Rappers getting shot. Other folks generally actin a fool. Musical falloffs both exaggerated and real (and people care too much about that now..like you make 7 jamming albums and 4 less than jamming ones SHOULD = YOU MADE SEVEN JAMMING SHITS! But it doesn't.). Reality shows. Robert Kelly. Whatever the hell is and has been going on with Puffy for like forever. You know what I mean..we've been hurt so many times!

I mean really, if someone shows up making some jams now, you can almost feel the uneasiness from basically everyone, can't you? IE: its like a lot of us are at least subconsciously waiting for some shitty shoe to drop on us. And once you throw in the over the top crybabies, it is just hard af to get to the point where you can get to MJ during Thriller status. Grown people passing out at your show just cuz you come out and stand there type shit? That's hard to get to!

IE: I had stock in Chris Brown. And really..dude has a parade of solid jams in his mixtape rapper-sized catalog. But Rihanna/woman abuse stuff + drug stuff + whatever the hell is going on with his 'affiliations' = he can make a 40-song album whenever he wants but he'll never be as colossal as he coulda/woulda/shoulda been with his good-dancing self.

Anyway, we're probably seeing the last mega stars, I think. It isn't worth it to them or the people who have to help make it happen. RN, it looks like we're deep into the era of people getting temporarily 'chosen'. And then, when they get a little too ANYTHING, they get swapped out unless they can convince their following to...err...keep following. IE: this retired skrippa rotation is on like its 8 one now.


>Beyonce's rollout of Country Carter reminds us that she is
>still a superstar. Taylor Swift tour and dominance in the
>media makes clear she is a superstar.
>
>But have these two joined the pantheon of Prince, MJJ,
>Madonna, Whitney? Should anyone else be included in the same
>realm as Prince, MJJ, Madonna, Whitney?
>
>In my mind they are the Big 4 but that's probably
>sentimentality more than an objective look at the 4 biggest
>solo acts of all time. Would you have a different Big 4 or
>5?
>
>Just looking at numbers I guess Elton John, Elvis, Eminem,
>Mariah Carey, and Celine Deon are also superstars.
>
>Is that it?
>
>Again, if you go one level down on sales, the list of
>Superstars could also include Drake, Garth Brooks, Kanye West,
>Billy Joel, Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran, and Bruno Mars. It
>already feels different, though, because you have to say their
>full names.
>
>But that's just me. Are these folks in the same realm as
>Prince, MJJ, Madonna, Whitney? Maybe its not supported by
>album sales, but I do think Stevie belongs in the group with
>the other one name superstars.
>
>Then my next question is the Age of Superstars over? Will
>there ever been acts as big and universal as my Big 4? Bad
>Bunny?
>
>Or even lowering the Bar, are there any singers who can
>achieve Beyonce or Taylor Swift levels? I still think Bruno
>Mars has a Thriller in him.
>
>Anyway, back the original question: Are we witnessing the last
>of the age of superstars, is it already over, or none of the
>above?
>
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

he had it all going for him before that night.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

especially the haters section. ties in to the ironic impact social media is having on the superstar mentioned by kira below.

>the pantheon of Prince, MJJ,
>Madonna, Whitney? Should anyone else be included in the same
>realm as Prince, MJJ, Madonna, Whitney?
>
>In my mind they are the Big 4 but that's probably
>sentimentality more than an objective look at the 4 biggest
>solo acts of all time. Would you have a different Big 4 or
>5?
>
>Just looking at numbers I guess Elton John, Elvis, Eminem,
>Mariah Carey, and Celine Deon are also superstars.
>
>Is that it?

should Sting be mentioned?

i don't think Beyonce is quite there, but close I guess.


>Just looking at numbers I guess Elton John, Elvis, Eminem,
>Mariah Carey, and Celine Deon are also superstars.

you guess Elvis is a superstar? LOL


>Again, if you go one level down on sales, the list of
>Superstars could also include Drake, Garth Brooks, Kanye West,
>Billy Joel, Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran, and Bruno Mars. It
>already feels different, though, because you have to say their
>full names.

You have to say Drake and Kanye's full names? (I'm just taking the piss, I get what you're saying here, just got a chuckle out of that)



>But that's just me. Are these folks in the same realm as
>Prince, MJJ, Madonna, Whitney? Maybe its not supported by
>album sales, but I do think Stevie belongs in the group with
>the other one name superstars.

Artistically, absolutely. In terms of superstar status, in that stratosphere? Not really.


>Then my next question is the Age of Superstars over? Will
>there ever been acts as big and universal as my Big 4? Bad
>Bunny?

Bad Bunny?


>Or even lowering the Bar, are there any singers who can
>achieve Beyonce or Taylor Swift levels? I still think Bruno
>Mars has a Thriller in him.

Thriller? Cmon.


>Anyway, back the original question: Are we witnessing the last
>of the age of superstars, is it already over, or none of the
>above?

I thought it was over until Taylor's superstar apotheosis this past year or so. So I guess it's not quite over, but it might be a while before we see anyone else rises to that level of superstardom.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

Superstars prestige came from mystery. We only knew specific things about them but now things changed.

Streaming killed hype and anticipation around artists to the same level of prior years. Going to record stores was a better experience than streaming the song.

Social media killed the superstar by providing a canvass to analyze their every move 24/7. Don't even get me started on privacy violations with smartphones.

Record labels could manufacture popular artists with AI but reality is older acts keep the industry afloat. Newer artists while popular are not superstars and that's okay.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

And also that anyone born after like 1990 just doesn't understand that level of fame.

____________________________

http://instagram.com/yogikenan
http://instagram.com/shotbykenan
http://stackoverflow.com/users/43089/triptych
http://github.com/djtriptych

Maybe Madonna might be right behind him.

I would put Whitney above Prince, and I wouldn't put either up there in the same tier as Michael or Madonna.

This is no shade to Prince or Whitney, just that they didn't seem to have the same level of crossover appeal.

I went to both concerts and its a different experience.

I think Michael wins hands down due to white folks. Dude transcended race. Nigga was holding a monkey named bubbles and sipping from the same can of pepsi.

Prince had mad women while wearing heels higher than theirs..

I’m just glad I got to witness it all in real time and see both in concert.

Prince concert was way better than MJ’s.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

past, present, and probably future.

that's based on how people actually reacted to him. obviously he's got plaques, sales, etc...all of that. but the way actual human beings reacted to him?

we'll never see that again, on the same level.

me saying this is no knock against any other artist or their fame. it just is what it is.

it'll never be that way again because there's just exposure and access to everything. there's no mystery anymore, and it's the mystery that made people crazy about the artists they loved back then. people still go crazy, don't get me wrong, but most people now just wanna say hi and get a pic for their social media.

def bugged out

dude was nice with it but I never understood how you could love an artist that
much

really was the height of superstardom.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

down the sidewalk and the tiles were lighting up? bro was outta here lol

>really was the height of superstardom.

because they were trying to claim they were a rock video station

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aLRpCyVPRtI

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxgo-Qu-ZZE&t=15s


Good luck finding any video of anything where a crowd that size is kept at that level for that long.

Let alone being able to get the same reaction in literally any city on earth for like three decades.

____________________________

http://instagram.com/yogikenan
http://instagram.com/shotbykenan
http://stackoverflow.com/users/43089/triptych
http://github.com/djtriptych

you just had to be there.

like, there's people crying and dying inside there because they can't get TO him, let alone cuz they are seeing him live.

she had HUGE records and was part of the early music video wave. Im almost 53 and saw it first hand

she had a tour documentary (truth or dare) in 1991 that released in theaters, and was the highest grossing documentary until Bowling For Columbine in 2002.

now, in 2024, everyone has a tour doc.

that shit was NOT normal back then, let alone for it to be released like a normal movie.

she's not REALLY near MJ as far as her level of superstar-dom (no one is), but in her heyday? she's up there FOR SURE.

>but in her heyday? she's up there FOR SURE.

when you have all the kids and teeny boppers dressing like you, youre in a difft zone. and truth be told her music was good...lucky star, borderline, holiday, etc etc were great songs

>she had a tour documentary (truth or dare) in 1991 that
>released in theaters, and was the highest grossing documentary
>until Bowling For Columbine in 2002.
>
>now, in 2024, everyone has a tour doc.


yea nobody touching mike but thats a compelling tidbit

that was it.

That was like 1983/84

This was also during a time when people dropped albums every year or 2. None of that 1 album every 5 years bullshit

In a 20 year span from 1983 to 2003 Madonna dropped 9
albums.

just checked and from 1978 to 1998 Prince had 20 albums.. and Sign of the Times was a double album. Gotdamn!!!

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

to be a teenager when purple rain and thriller dropped was crazy...its hard to explain to ppl lol.

my sisters were huge Prince fans so I heard all his stuff and Prince and The Time loved playing in Pittsburgh for some reason.

My dad thought Prince was gay til he took my sister to a show.. lol.

“that boy good! He had all the women”

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Thriller was so big he ate off that for like 6 years touring and shooting 30 minute movies that were videos.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

That was like a top ten news event of the year.

I distinctly remember a prime time television release on major networks.

Just read a recap and apparently it dropped on VH1, MTV, BET, and FOX simultaneously, and set a Neilsen record at the time for Fox. 500 million viewers in 1991 across all networks.

That's about 5x more viewers than the superbowl that year.

____________________________

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