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Subject: "Reports Haiti is about to collapse" Previous topic | Next topic
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79560 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 10:09 AM

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"Reports Haiti is about to collapse"


          

Not to be rude but I thought Haiti was already gone. Will we take in refugees? Doubt it.


partial swipe

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-fears-haiti-could-fall-023322869.html

U.S. government officials have grown alarmed that the Haiti National Police could begin to crumble within hours — and that a long-planned multinational mission led by Kenya to provide reinforcements may not be enough to save the country from a complete descent into gang control.

Outgunned Haitian police have been battling a united front of gangs and losing key firefights. Now, a potential power void and a collapse of the Haitian government that had already faced a skeptical public risks undermining whatever morale is left among the police forces.

“The government could fall at any time,” a U.S. official told McClatchy, speaking on the condition of anonymity to candidly discuss the government assessment. “If the HNP dissolves as an effective counterforce, if we see the airport or the presidential palace fall, it’s over.”


The Biden administration is moving urgently to expedite the deployment of a Multinational Security Support mission, or MSS, that has been in the works for over a year and a half. Kenya has pledged to lead the mission and committed 1,000 police officers to the effort last fall.

But the force size of the Haiti National Police is “orders of magnitude less than required,” the U.S. official added. Adding 1,000 more boots on the ground — even if they are well-armed, well-trained, and deployed immediately — is unlikely to meet the demands of the crisis.

The Biden administration has ruled out contributing U.S. forces to the mission, with Pentagon leadership fiercely opposed to any deployment.

“The situation in Port-au-Prince remains extremely fragile as sporadic attacks have continued and all flights in and out of Haiti remain canceled,” United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres’ spokesman Stephane Dujarric said Wednesday. “The Secretary-General reiterates the need for urgent action, including financing for the Multinational Security Support mission, to tackle the security needs of the people of Haiti.”



Dujarric said the United Nations has not been given a time frame for the arrival of the force.

Whenever the MSS does arrive, it remains unclear how Kenyan forces and leadership — who speak English and Swahili —will operate with a French and Creole-language Haitian force. And it has yet to be determined whether the Kenyan-led forces will take static positions at key sites, freeing Haitian police forces to battle gang members elsewhere, or if the Kenyans would fight alongside their Haitian partners.

It is not even clear whether the MSS, in partnership with the Haitian police, is large enough to reclaim any of the critical infrastructure already under gang control or neighborhoods across the capital that have led to more than 314,000 Haitians being displaced from their homes.

Though the total force size of the MSS has been quoted at roughly 2,500, neither the U.N. nor the United States has given a tally of how many police officers would be involved in the entire operation. And forces are not expected to deploy all at the same time. U.N. officials said last week that five countries, in addition to Kenya, have confirmed they will send personnel.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
DR right now:
Mar 07th 2024
1
when i heard the other day that gangs sprung 2500-3k prisoners
Mar 07th 2024
2
That article is interesting to me...
Mar 07th 2024
8
      i wonder if he can really see beyond the current chaos
Mar 07th 2024
10
           I think the President and BBQ both don't want to go to jail.
Mar 07th 2024
11
                since Moise was killed things seem to have gotten much worse
Mar 07th 2024
12
                PM is stepping down so i guess we'll see how it plays out
Mar 12th 2024
14
About to? Seems like Haiti collapsed quite some time ago
Mar 07th 2024
3
Are we bussing them to France?
Mar 07th 2024
6
      Maybe we should start buying Haitian refugees plane tickets to Paris
Mar 07th 2024
9
really sad for the people
Mar 07th 2024
4
yeah its the ordinary civilians I worry about in these conflicts
Mar 13th 2024
15
I use to argue with a friend who argued the US should keep out of Haiti...
Mar 07th 2024
5
When you are the only successful slave revolt in history
Mar 07th 2024
7
      that part
Mar 13th 2024
16
      RE: When you are the only successful slave revolt in history
Mar 14th 2024
20
Sounds more like a rebirth
Mar 07th 2024
13
Let’s hope so
Mar 13th 2024
17
I hope you’re right but I have no faith
Mar 13th 2024
18
I was hoping someone with first hand knowledge would chime in...
Mar 13th 2024
19
It’s just that every person that comes into power there doesn’t care...
Mar 14th 2024
25
      i appreciate your response bro.
Mar 14th 2024
27
           RE: i appreciate your response bro.
Mar 14th 2024
31
how do you feel about a multinational security force?
Mar 14th 2024
21
RE: how do you feel about a multinational security force?
Mar 14th 2024
26
      i'm guessing you still have family there
Mar 14th 2024
28
           I still have a few family members there
Mar 14th 2024
30
They are doing better than some other nations
Mar 14th 2024
33
      RE: They are doing better than some other nations
Mar 14th 2024
35
There's no hope for Haiti
Mar 14th 2024
22
      Man GTFOHWTBS
Mar 14th 2024
23
      I think we all want to share that message of hope
Mar 14th 2024
24
           and seeing the National Guard deploy fleets and use Gauntanamo Bay
Mar 14th 2024
29
                RE: and seeing the National Guard deploy fleets and use Gauntanamo Bay
Mar 14th 2024
32
                     RE: and seeing the National Guard deploy fleets and use Gauntanamo Bay
Mar 14th 2024
36
      That’s if the people of Haiti want the hand out
Mar 14th 2024
34
      But that's just it, you can't start a rebuild without handouts
Mar 15th 2024
37
      Handouts from where for what?
Mar 28th 2024
38
           huh?
Mar 28th 2024
39
                What exactly needs rebuilding in Haiti?
Mar 29th 2024
43
      Handouts? How about Reparations for what was stolen from them?
Mar 29th 2024
42
           Reparations, I can agree with
Mar 29th 2024
44
      First and foremost the Blackman is God
Mar 29th 2024
40
           ^^^^^Preach.
Mar 29th 2024
41
           ^^^^^THIS
Mar 29th 2024
45
           powerful post nm
Mar 30th 2024
46
           RE: EXACTLY!!!!!
Mar 31st 2024
50
My dad who is retired worked for USAID
Mar 30th 2024
47
RE: My dad who is retired worked for USAID
Mar 31st 2024
48
      RE: My dad who is retired worked for USAID
Mar 31st 2024
49
           RE: My dad who is retired worked for USAID
Apr 16th 2024
51

T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 10:13 AM

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1. "DR right now:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://media1.tenor.com/m/MUxPw8oToMAAAAAC/kto-kounotoritoken.gif

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
10137 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 10:14 AM

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2. "when i heard the other day that gangs sprung 2500-3k prisoners"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Mar-07-24 10:18 AM by mikediggz

  

          

free into an already chaotic situation, i was like fuck man how in the hell can they turn this around?

edit: this dude here is a problem

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/03/world/haiti-gang-violence-cnnphotos/

  

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Hitokiri
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Thu Mar-07-24 11:01 AM

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8. "That article is interesting to me..."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

it's light on content but this was really fascinating:

>Henry, who took leadership of the country after President Jovenel >Moise was assassinated in 2021, was supposed to hold elections and >transfer power by February 7. But last month he said he couldn’t step >down because conditions in the country weren’t safe enough to stage >an election.
>
>“My interim government is working hand-in-hand with the police to >restore normal life in the country,” he said in an address to the >nation. “We are aware that many thing have to change, but we need to >make those changes together and calmly.”
>
>That isn’t acceptable to Cherizier, who on Friday reiterated his >demand that Henry be arrested.

>“We ask the Haitian National Police and the military to take >responsibility and arrest Ariel Henry,” he said. “Once again, the >population is not our enemy; the armed groups are not your enemy. You >arrest Ariel Henry for the country’s liberation. … With these >weapons, we will liberate the country, and these weapons will change >the country.”
>
>After a very brief interview where Cherizier laid out his vision for >Haiti, Clarke walked with him through the streets. Clarke remembers >how much quieter it was when he was with Cherizier. “There was no >shooting because (the men) were all with Jimmy,” he said.


So it would seem that these gang members see this as a revolution against a corrupt leader. I wish the article would have talked bout the Cherizier's "vision" actually is. I'm not justifying what's actually happening on the ground, which looks absolutely horrible. But I would appreciate the context to better understand the situation.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
10137 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 12:13 PM

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10. "i wonder if he can really see beyond the current chaos"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

the politician that he wants out seems to be the least of his problems...but it would def be interesting to see his vision

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p95xlGnOotk

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Mar-07-24 05:17 PM

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11. "I think the President and BBQ both don't want to go to jail. "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

What possible vision could he have? Ain't no silver bullet but I think these folks all have to work together for it to work.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
10137 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 07:16 PM

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12. "since Moise was killed things seem to have gotten much worse"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

and the gangs are more prevalent...now the gangs want the PM to step down...i guess id like to know more about what they envision for the govt moving fwd as well as what it will take for ppl like him to stand down

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
10137 posts
Tue Mar-12-24 11:52 PM

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14. "PM is stepping down so i guess we'll see how it plays out"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/11/americas/haiti-pm-ariel-henry-resigns-gang-violence-intl-hnk/index.html

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13565 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 10:20 AM

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3. "About to? Seems like Haiti collapsed quite some time ago"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Worsening collapse or headed to all-out civil war seems more apt (from reading articles).

>Will we take in refugees? Doubt it.

Shouldn't it be France that takes in refugees?

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79560 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 10:48 AM

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6. "Are we bussing them to France? "
In response to Reply # 3


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13565 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 11:27 AM

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9. "Maybe we should start buying Haitian refugees plane tickets to Paris"
In response to Reply # 6
Thu Mar-07-24 11:32 AM by flipnile

          

Marseille & Lyon too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti_Independence_Debt

They fucked that country up, now they over there just chillin' eating escargot & cuisses de grenouilles.

  

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makaveli
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16303 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 10:30 AM

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4. "really sad for the people"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

hopefully things get better and become somewhat stable. such a beautiful place.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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J305
Member since Dec 07th 2008
7310 posts
Wed Mar-13-24 01:41 AM

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15. "yeah its the ordinary civilians I worry about in these conflicts"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

situation is definitely sad

peace

J305
___________________

People of color are NOT a minority. Think Global.

Don't Let Hollywood fool you.

http://www.twitter.com/Jtronic
http://www.last.fm/user/Jtronic

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Mar-07-24 10:35 AM

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5. "I use to argue with a friend who argued the US should keep out of Haiti..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He wasn't Haitian. He was arguing that the US only wants to be there because the Clintons had some claim on some ores or something like that.

I think a coalition of forces lead by the US and France should go in and restore order until the country is stable and they can hold elections. I also think they should work with the warlords there to make it happen. The deal should be you work with us or we work against you.

I don't think 2500 is enough.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79560 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 10:54 AM

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7. "When you are the only successful slave revolt in history "
In response to Reply # 5


          

countries stay the fuck away.

America wants no parts of Haiti

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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J305
Member since Dec 07th 2008
7310 posts
Wed Mar-13-24 01:41 AM

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16. "that part"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

peace

J305
___________________

People of color are NOT a minority. Think Global.

Don't Let Hollywood fool you.

http://www.twitter.com/Jtronic
http://www.last.fm/user/Jtronic

  

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javi222
Member since Jun 14th 2003
4374 posts
Thu Mar-14-24 05:55 AM

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20. "RE: When you are the only successful slave revolt in history "
In response to Reply # 7


          

>America wants no parts of Haiti
>

I don’t know about that.. The US wont make Puerto Rico a state and never showed interest in allowing independence, control of the Caribbean is important to US govt

  

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3CardMolly
Member since Jun 08th 2007
13784 posts
Thu Mar-07-24 08:55 PM

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13. "Sounds more like a rebirth"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

No (corrupt) govt
No more paying a debt to someone’s ass you whipped
No more exporting and being exploited for your natural resources
Option to be a 100% Haitian ran country

The US survived cannibalism, the wild west, civil war, etc etc and look at it now.

I’m rooting for Haiti.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79560 posts
Wed Mar-13-24 07:38 AM

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17. "Let’s hope so"
In response to Reply # 13


          

would be nice to see Haiti flourish.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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DaKidFromHaiti
Member since Feb 19th 2006
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Wed Mar-13-24 04:57 PM

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18. "I hope you’re right but I have no faith "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

We’ve gone through this so many times, another corrupt government is going to rise and shit is going to stay the same. I hope I’m wrong but until the mentality of the people there change, nothing will change. It’s going to be the same thing over and over.

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
10137 posts
Wed Mar-13-24 08:25 PM

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19. "I was hoping someone with first hand knowledge would chime in..."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

can you tell a little more about the mentality issue and additionally what it would take for things to turn around? do think it will ever happen? if clef would have been eligible for election could he have had success?


>We’ve gone through this so many times, another corrupt
>government is going to rise and shit is going to stay the
>same. I hope I’m wrong but until the mentality of the people
>there change, nothing will change. It’s going to be the same
>thing over and over.

  

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DaKidFromHaiti
Member since Feb 19th 2006
1211 posts
Thu Mar-14-24 10:42 AM

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25. "It’s just that every person that comes into power there doesn’t care..."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

They come into power and they sell the country out for money and sadly a large percent of the population are uneducated and fall victim to these people and pledge loyalty to them and the cycle just keeps going.

I think Clef would have fell victim to the same stuff if he had gotten elected since there was word that he stole money from his own foundation.

When Michel Martelly got the presidency I actually welcomed it because to me he was already rich and I thought he’d actually be positive for the country but dude was corrupt too and stole money and used the presidency for his own financial benefit. There was word that he was tied to gangs also and making money from the kidnappings.

When Henry stepped out the word around my family was just kinda like “ok now what?” While I think it’s great he stepped down (should have happened a long time ago) I just worry that it’s gonna be the same old same old after that. They’ll hold elections and someone is going to cheat their way to victory and take advantage of the people. I really hope I’m wrong but it’s just been the story for so long that it’s hard for me to imagine that this next time will be any different.

Last time I checked the gangs are still terrorizing the city and something needs to be done about that but even the local police can’t handle them. My cousin is a teacher over there and she has to hold her classes on Zoom because it’s not safe to go out. Sad situation all around.

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
10137 posts
Thu Mar-14-24 11:19 AM

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27. "i appreciate your response bro."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

growing up my mom had professional ties to the Caribbean and she held and continues to hold Haiti and Cuba in high regard, so i grew up learning about them and both places hold a place with me as a result.

Corruption, greed and long standing broken systems are hard forces to break...and like you said its often the people who are struggling to make it who suffer the most. thanks again for the insight and hope your fam over there stays safe and out of the way.

  

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DaKidFromHaiti
Member since Feb 19th 2006
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Thu Mar-14-24 12:44 PM

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31. "RE: i appreciate your response bro."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

No problem man, i appreciate it. The history of those countries in rich, I really hope for a day where things go close to normal and I can go back and live there.

Off topic but since you mentioned Cuba, my family has ties to Cuba too and it’s funny because as a kid I remember my mom holding Castro in high regard and saying how great he was and it wasn’t until I moved to the US that I saw how the US regarded with him. But I’d say that most Haitians hold Castro to that high regard that my mom did also.

  

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makaveli
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Thu Mar-14-24 07:39 AM

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21. "how do you feel about a multinational security force?"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Is it something the people would be open to? I would also like to hear more about the mentality of the people.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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DaKidFromHaiti
Member since Feb 19th 2006
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Thu Mar-14-24 10:48 AM

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26. "RE: how do you feel about a multinational security force?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

It’s a controversial topic but I’d welcome it if only to take care of the gang situation on Port-au-Prince, the city is unsafe and the police can’t do anything about it.

As far as the mentally of the people, i meant more the mentality of those that come into power and the way they take advantage of the poorly educated people. There needs to be a radical change in the whole system. My parents grew up under Duvalier and that was awful, then Aristide came and he was awful (don’t be duped by reports that say he was a progressive leader), dude had his hand in drug money and paid off gangs too to terrorize his enemies. Martelly was garbage and while I don’t think Jovenele was as corrupt as the others, he didn’t do much for the people.

I honestly don’t know what it’s going to take and I know it sounds negative but I don’t see it changing, just getting worse. I hope to God I’m wrong, I’d love to go back and live there, would love to be able to take my niece and nephew there to visit their home but it’s just not possible anymore, at least not in Port-au-Prince where I’m from. Last time I visited was 2018 but I won’t go back anytime soon, not while the situation is the way it is now.

  

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makaveli
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Thu Mar-14-24 11:24 AM

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28. "i'm guessing you still have family there"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

i hope they are okay and i hope things settle down at least some soon. hopefully someone who cares about the people can get power somehow. as far as the DR government goes, it seems like it would be in their best interest to help stabilize things in any way they can.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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DaKidFromHaiti
Member since Feb 19th 2006
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Thu Mar-14-24 12:41 PM

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30. "I still have a few family members there "
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I spoke to my cousin there on Tuesday and she said Tuesday was a bit calmer than Monday (the day Henry stepped down). She lives in the city so very much in the action of it all. Her neighborhood fought gang members a few months ago and it had made the news cause of how they fought back against them. This cousin of mine and her mom have been adamant that they will never leave Haiti (they have family in the US that would take them in) but they don’t want to leave their country which I find commendable but lately even they have been flirting with the idea of leaving. She has two kids and sent one of them to Detroit (through Biden’s program) and the other is in DR.

  

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3CardMolly
Member since Jun 08th 2007
13784 posts
Thu Mar-14-24 04:48 PM

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33. "They are doing better than some other nations"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Mainly because they have not been bombed…yet. The land and food never belonged to the people of Haiti, now its open. I was speaking to some other folks from Haiti who said that while the news is filming the people below living in poverty, they’ve completely ignored the rich who lived in some upper-crust areas of Haiti and enjoy common US luxuries and are the benefactors of past politics in Haiti.
Now Im not saying I know this for fact, but that’s what I was told.

On another note, have Haitians ever had a hold of the land? They just came from under France a few years ago. The US have always insured a certain type of rules and ruler there, and under that rule and constant payouts to France, there were 20/20 reports on Haitian children eating dirt cookies to fill their stomachs.

Haiti is a land of opportunity and if the people and the gangs (still Haitian) and the people can find a way to rebuild without the US/UK or any other European nation or accommodating European nation’s input, I believe they can grow into a great nation.

  

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DaKidFromHaiti
Member since Feb 19th 2006
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Thu Mar-14-24 04:53 PM

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35. "RE: They are doing better than some other nations"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

The dirt pie shit was so overblown it made my blood boil.

But yea, i hear you, the gangs gotta go though, they are ruthless and i don’t believe any of them will play any positive part in rebuilding the country.

  

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kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
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Thu Mar-14-24 08:13 AM

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22. "There's no hope for Haiti"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

The parallels with hundreds of other situations like this in Africa past and present are all too stark. You could literally copy and paste this situation and change a few names and the story is the same.

Once there is even a sniff of that aid money up for grabs the process will repeat again and again.

They're done.

************************

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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23. "Man GTFOHWTBS"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

There is always hope.

The Haitian people have got to be the most resilient people in the world.

I think we are reaching the point of seeing how much the Western World has had their foot on Haiti's neck and real change will come.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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DaKidFromHaiti
Member since Feb 19th 2006
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Thu Mar-14-24 10:26 AM

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24. "I think we all want to share that message of hope"
In response to Reply # 23
Thu Mar-14-24 10:36 AM by DaKidFromHaiti

  

          

But it’s just disheartening over the couple decades there and a real radical change needs to happen.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu Mar-14-24 12:10 PM

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29. "and seeing the National Guard deploy fleets and use Gauntanamo Bay"
In response to Reply # 24


          

to house refugees is disgusting.

The Western world wants no parts of Haiti.

Its also disgusting to see/feel that anyone who comes into power is just going to take from the people. Is it possible to rule with love or is that delusional since power corrupts?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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DaKidFromHaiti
Member since Feb 19th 2006
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Thu Mar-14-24 03:24 PM

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32. "RE: and seeing the National Guard deploy fleets and use Gauntanamo Bay"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

I want to think it’s possible to rule with love but I’m not sure. I’ll never forget when my elementary school teacher in Haiti gave us a talk about how everyone that sits in that chair (i.e. president) always finds a way to extend their term. In Haiti a president can’t have two consecutive terms so whoever is president always puts some puppet of theirs for the term between them before they get to run again. That’s what Aristide did with Préval and that’s what Martelly tried to do with Moïse before he got murdered.

  

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3CardMolly
Member since Jun 08th 2007
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Thu Mar-14-24 05:01 PM

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36. "RE: and seeing the National Guard deploy fleets and use Gauntanamo Bay"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Sounds like the people know this and are fed up. There’s never been (pos or neg) w/out a shake up and/or violence. Hate to say but can you really expect a kumbya transition when so many evil govts are pulling the strings? Maybe, just maybe what Haiti is going through is exactly what a nations changing for the betterment of its people looks like.

Although history has told the tale many times, we’ve never lived through seeing such so we have no clue what a nations’ emancipation looks like.

  

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3CardMolly
Member since Jun 08th 2007
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Thu Mar-14-24 04:53 PM

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34. "That’s if the people of Haiti want the hand out"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

If anything the handouts is what got them where they are now. If they rebuild themselves l, there will be opposition from European nations because it will show a nation can survive ans thrive w/out them which is 3rd world country taboo. But if they accept those handouts, then yeah, back to worse than poverty square one.

  

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kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
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Fri Mar-15-24 03:53 AM

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37. "But that's just it, you can't start a rebuild without handouts"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

It's a vicious cycle.

Seen it happen all the damn time. Money comes in with lots of optimism, greed takes over, money ends up lost in various pockets and the fighting begins afresh.

************************

  

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3CardMolly
Member since Jun 08th 2007
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Thu Mar-28-24 07:22 PM

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38. "Handouts from where for what?"
In response to Reply # 37
Thu Mar-28-24 07:23 PM by 3CardMolly

  

          

Haiti has what it needs to rebuild and honestly its more of a taking out the trash(european interference) that has kept them from building in the first place.

Continuing to have there hand out IS the vicious cycle.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79560 posts
Thu Mar-28-24 08:57 PM

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39. "huh? "
In response to Reply # 38


          

>Haiti has what it needs to rebuild

You sure about that?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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3CardMolly
Member since Jun 08th 2007
13784 posts
Fri Mar-29-24 10:37 AM

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43. "What exactly needs rebuilding in Haiti?"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

The structures are still there. The ability to grow food never stopped. The tools needed for construction are already there. Unlike Palestine and Ukraine, there were no bombings.
Maybe you mean the government needs rebuilding, but if its the same govt that worked with countries that continued to keep their own food from them and blanket the people in poverty while living in a natural paradise, then its not needed. The people know what they need and have always had the resources and ability to make it happen.

Haiti should not turn back to begging its oppressors and thieves fir anything. However, this is a great time for them to connect with Cuba, So. Africa and other nations outside of European rule.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Mar-29-24 10:17 AM

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42. "Handouts? How about Reparations for what was stolen from them?"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          


You have no basis for saying that they have everything they need to rebuild.

Also, it's impossible to rebuild without aid from the international community.

And you sound like white conservatives when you say it's handouts that got them in the bad shape they are in.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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3CardMolly
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Fri Mar-29-24 10:53 AM

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44. "Reparations, I can agree with"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

But that handout mess is just that, a mess.

Yall act like Haiti was not already receiving handouts and yalk act like those handouts did them some good. Please not what handouts did Haiti receive that benefitted them more than the corp or govt handing them out?

From what I’ve read and heard, the handouts Haiti has received has benefitted them as much as payday loan stores in black communities…and YES WE NEED OUR REPARATIONS TOO.

Aside from the ground fighting between gangs, the people and the govt, Haiti’s soil is rich, the infrastructures are still standing and functioning. Haiti isnt some barren wasteland comparable to mad max. If the Haitian people decide to have an AGREEMENT (not no damn handout) with other non-European nations to further their infrastructure, thats fine. I would hope they would not reconnect with the same assholes that screwed their govt and enforced their produce to other nations while their babies munched on dirt cookies.

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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Fri Mar-29-24 06:09 AM

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40. "First and foremost the Blackman is God"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

so all this doomed business is for ppl that believe in a mystery god that will solve all their mortal problems and literally have no "faith" in their Own Selves....

the problem is within thus the solution is within

both my parents were born and raised in Haiti and im old enough to remember a time when Haiti wasnt in the condition it is in right now... once upon a time, im talking early 80s, Haiti was a tourist destination on par and at the time, superior to DR.... that was when it was under a brutal dictatorship led by Jean-Claude Duvalier which he inherited from his father in the late 70s, François Duvalier.... Haiti under dictatorship has had decades of "stability" but this led also to a brain drain with many Haiitans leaving for Miami, NYC and Montreal.

there was also a 2nd rebirth when a priest by the name of Jean-Bertrand Aristide let a revolution that culminated with the ouster of Jean-Claude Duvalier in 86... at the time, the Haitian Diaspora was fully involved in supporting the reform of the country... hope was there but alas we hadnt dealt with the bloodsuckers who had control of the Haitian economy so this lead to a coup d'état by the military.... from that point on is when Haiti "really" spiraled down.....

there's been other glimpses of hope.... under Michel Martelly, post earthquake, i knew many Haitians from the diaspora that started moving back to Haiti to help reinvigorate the economy... know a lot of folks that went back to host events, get married, etc.... but again, we never really dealt with the families that own the economy... thesese syrio-lebanese-jewish-"mulatto" class that fiance the armed gangs, have been know to even finance kidnappings and whose sole mandate is to keep the masses as poor as possible to accumulate the maximum of wealth...

but hope is there though.... contrary to popular belief, gangs dont run Haiti... they run Port-au-Prince... there are people up north, in Cap-Haitien who are living their lives... up to a few weeks, you could take a direct flight from Fort Lauderdale to Cap-Haitien i think on a daily basis... while the drama was going on in PAP, ppl celebrated Carnival in February.... did a Diner en Blanc celebration last summer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwG4GKGHdwk

even in Jacmel who is way closer to PAP this is what is going on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7P6c9X_Iqs

life is far from ideal in Haiti but if u r in tune with what is going on in many places around the world where blk ppl live, there is a shift taking place.... Accra is becoming the place to be each december... Rwanda who suffered one of the worst tragedies in modern human history has one the cleanest country in the world and was able to do an almost complete 180... Senegal just elected a president who is 44 and committed to breaking the shackles of France...

Haiti aint done... blk ppl are never done... if u r breathing there is always hope

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Mar-29-24 10:15 AM

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41. "^^^^^Preach. "
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

Especially this part.

>>>>Haiti aint done... blk ppl are never done... if u r breathing there is always hope


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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3CardMolly
Member since Jun 08th 2007
13784 posts
Fri Mar-29-24 11:30 AM

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45. "^^^^^THIS"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

Inspite of what’s going on in Haiti rt now, I am excited to see them overcome above and beyond ANY nation ever witnessed.

  

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guru0509
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46. "powerful post nm"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>so all this doomed business is for ppl that believe in a
>mystery god that will solve all their mortal problems and
>literally have no "faith" in their Own Selves....
>
>the problem is within thus the solution is within
>
>both my parents were born and raised in Haiti and im old
>enough to remember a time when Haiti wasnt in the condition it
>is in right now... once upon a time, im talking early 80s,
>Haiti was a tourist destination on par and at the time,
>superior to DR.... that was when it was under a brutal
>dictatorship led by Jean-Claude Duvalier which he inherited
>from his father in the late 70s, François Duvalier.... Haiti
>under dictatorship has had decades of "stability" but this led
>also to a brain drain with many Haiitans leaving for Miami,
>NYC and Montreal.
>
>there was also a 2nd rebirth when a priest by the name of
>Jean-Bertrand Aristide let a revolution that culminated with
>the ouster of Jean-Claude Duvalier in 86... at the time, the
>Haitian Diaspora was fully involved in supporting the reform
>of the country... hope was there but alas we hadnt dealt with
>the bloodsuckers who had control of the Haitian economy so
>this lead to a coup d'état by the military.... from that
>point on is when Haiti "really" spiraled down.....
>
>there's been other glimpses of hope.... under Michel Martelly,
>post earthquake, i knew many Haitians from the diaspora that
>started moving back to Haiti to help reinvigorate the
>economy... know a lot of folks that went back to host events,
>get married, etc.... but again, we never really dealt with the
>families that own the economy... thesese
>syrio-lebanese-jewish-"mulatto" class that fiance the armed
>gangs, have been know to even finance kidnappings and whose
>sole mandate is to keep the masses as poor as possible to
>accumulate the maximum of wealth...
>
>but hope is there though.... contrary to popular belief, gangs
>dont run Haiti... they run Port-au-Prince... there are people
>up north, in Cap-Haitien who are living their lives... up to a
>few weeks, you could take a direct flight from Fort Lauderdale
>to Cap-Haitien i think on a daily basis... while the drama was
>going on in PAP, ppl celebrated Carnival in February.... did a
>Diner en Blanc celebration last summer...
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwG4GKGHdwk
>
>even in Jacmel who is way closer to PAP this is what is going
>on
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7P6c9X_Iqs
>
>life is far from ideal in Haiti but if u r in tune with what
>is going on in many places around the world where blk ppl
>live, there is a shift taking place.... Accra is becoming the
>place to be each december... Rwanda who suffered one of the
>worst tragedies in modern human history has one the cleanest
>country in the world and was able to do an almost complete
>180... Senegal just elected a president who is 44 and
>committed to breaking the shackles of France...
>
>Haiti aint done... blk ppl are never done... if u r breathing
>there is always hope

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Castro
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Sun Mar-31-24 03:34 PM

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50. "RE: EXACTLY!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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jetblack
Member since Nov 14th 2004
44804 posts
Sat Mar-30-24 11:58 AM

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47. "My dad who is retired worked for USAID"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he has a degree in plant pathology and plant genetics - Dr. Jetblack's Dad PHD . Back when he was doing agricultural assessments on behalf of the US government says they SHOULD be able to sustainably grow and rotate crops for nutrition and sustainability. Gotta properly use that top soil or it will be gone. Like Nauru - phosphate mining - read that wiki page it's fucking depressing.

So Haiti. In a decent place to positive change - save the earthquakes and hurricanes. That was in the late 90s and early 2000s.

With climate change and hotter temperatures shit looks dire. Very bleak. They have been stuck in a "dictator loop" and the aftermath of that. Papa Doc and Baby Doc. There's no international intervention because communism is mostly dead out there and not spreading, there's no oil, natural gas and there are no rare earth elements to pilfer. There's no financial incentive to act. As crass as that sounds. People are suffering and need help. There's no altruism. Just protecting the national interests and strategic interests.

It's slow death. Haiti will be similar to Somalia in the next 5 years if no intervention is enacted. There is no real central government. They are toothless and impotent. Just warlords controlling territory and taking what they can from cargo ships and such.

I'm sure the 3 letter organizations in the US government have contingency plans when things get even worse.

---
Stoicism and chill.
---
Stay +.
---

  

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3CardMolly
Member since Jun 08th 2007
13784 posts
Sun Mar-31-24 02:40 PM

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48. "RE: My dad who is retired worked for USAID"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

It’s a slow death of a govt that grew to not be for the people. The Haitian people continue to stand strong.

I’m wondering when or if the people of this country will come to the understanding that our govt heads are not for our best well-being, or will we continue to look at others who have figured it out and criticize them for no longer just going along.

The US needs to have all the seats, especially as our homeless rate continues to rapidly skyrocket just as rents, as food that is over-processed, in overabundance and over priced is trashed daily, as our govt chisels and hacks away at our civil&human rights and more.

  

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jetblack
Member since Nov 14th 2004
44804 posts
Sun Mar-31-24 03:32 PM

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49. "RE: My dad who is retired worked for USAID"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

It's literally money over people. And it's disgusting.

Government is just structure and bureaucracy. The efficacy is due to leadership, laws and social norms. The norm is the love of money, resources and influence.

---
Stoicism and chill.
---
Stay +.
---

  

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3CardMolly
Member since Jun 08th 2007
13784 posts
Tue Apr-16-24 06:34 PM

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51. "RE: My dad who is retired worked for USAID"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

But now that there’s no govt or social norms based money, it seems the perfect time to make positive changes. They dont have to be what they once were.

  

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