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Lobby General Discussion topic #13493965

Subject: "Why are music contracts so bad if they have unions?" Previous topic | Next topic
seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
6045 posts
Mon Nov-06-23 03:28 AM

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"Why are music contracts so bad if they have unions?"
Mon Nov-06-23 03:28 AM by seasoned vet

  

          

^^Asking those here in the know…

looks like there are 3 unions?

AFM (founded in 1896?)
UMAW
and AGMA


  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Mainly because the industry as a whole isn't unionized...
Nov 06th 2023
1
This is all spot on. At this point the only real benefits from
Nov 06th 2023
2
I don't think of PROs as unions. Yeah they negotiate rates
Nov 06th 2023
3
PRO's were born of the reluctance to unionize...
Nov 06th 2023
5
YOU HATE ALL MUSICIANS!!! j/k, thank you for the insight.
Nov 06th 2023
4
      Musicians are people too... lol
Nov 06th 2023
6

CyrenYoung
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34204 posts
Mon Nov-06-23 07:06 AM

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1. "Mainly because the industry as a whole isn't unionized..."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Nov-06-23 04:56 PM by CyrenYoung

  

          

..a complicated history (racism) helped divide what would likely be one of the largest unions in the world by now.

Although there are established unions for musicians, most professional performers opted to remain independent contractors (sounds crazy, but it was the only protection they had at the time in the face of racism). The threat of new technology (vinyl) allowing broadcasters/radio/labels to siphon their performance earnings and antitrust lawsuits led to the Department of Justice establishing consent decrees. Ironically, those very same consent decrees are what stand in the way of unionizing the industry.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2023-07-26/musicians-sag-aftra-strike-wga-actors-writers


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Society_of_Composers,_Authors_and_Publishers


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_Music,_Inc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SESAC



In short, people are stupid lol.




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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soulfunk
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11008 posts
Mon Nov-06-23 08:59 AM

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2. "This is all spot on. At this point the only real benefits from "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

the musician unions is for supplemental things like benefits - health insurance and life insurance, some deals/discounts on certain things like from some instrument retailers, credit union membership depending on your local area, etc.

There’s little to no benefits for negotiation/collective bargaining with music labels or venues, because most musicians aren’t part of unions for them to have that power. Back in the day there was a negotiated scale rate for studio musicians who were part of the union, but that wasn’t also for lead artists who were at the mercy of the labels and those contracts.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Nov-06-23 09:56 AM

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3. "I don't think of PROs as unions. Yeah they negotiate rates"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

(and collect) but that's about it .


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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CyrenYoung
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34204 posts
Mon Nov-06-23 04:33 PM

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5. "PRO's were born of the reluctance to unionize..."
In response to Reply # 3
Mon Nov-06-23 04:39 PM by CyrenYoung

  

          

..While they're not "unions", they perform the task of organized collection & distribution of earnings/royalties, while maintaining certain standards regarding licensed performances.

*Please note: The challenges being faced during that era are very similar to modern times.

Back then, unions weren't viewed in the same perspective (esp for minorities). There were legitimate concerns regarding fair negotiation practices and regulation.

Crazy that so many musicians bolted from ASCAP for fear of unfair practices, only to join BMI (ironically, a PRO created by broadcasters --- the true monopoly).


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
6045 posts
Mon Nov-06-23 02:51 PM

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4. "YOU HATE ALL MUSICIANS!!! j/k, thank you for the insight."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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CyrenYoung
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34204 posts
Mon Nov-06-23 04:43 PM

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6. "Musicians are people too... lol"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

..I've been one my entire life.

Its clear we (the industry) haven't always taken the correct action in support of our greater interest. We're currently witnessing that correction in real time.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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