what say you?

Apparently they went back and edited out the guns in ET and now they are doing another release and putting them back in. Said it was a mistake to do it and he was disappointed he made that edit.

I remember when I first got to OKP there were debates about films not holding up or
aging horribly due to times changing and offensive content.

I think improving the color or sound of videos is fine but changing the content? How and why? Seems like a constantly changing target that we will never hit because we are always moving.

Also should apply to books. Unless its grossly misinformed content being passed as facts I can’t see why you should use todays eyes to judge work done 70 years ago.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Our morality improves over time. This is not perfect or infallible, but by and large, our collective morality has improved.

And we should be using that improved moral compass to judge everything, because that's part of how that moral compass still improves.

To that end, there's a difference between "judging" a thing, and "sentencing" it. Condemnation may or may not be appropriate, depending on the context.

In general, I don't see any actual harm in condemning works that have not stood the test of that aforementioned moral arrow- but the harm in condoning them is very real, because it helps to erode the progress that has been made.

And that's the more important question, I think:

What harm is being done, and to whom, on either side of this fence?

I don't see who or what was harmed in keeping the guns in ET, but I don't see the harm in removing them either. It's purely an artistic choice. It really is "whatever" to me.

But I think these subjects really dig into what our individual values are, and I think it gets messy because nobody is a bastion of moral purity. Most of use have some contradictions in this area.

I hold Delirious and Raw up as my GOAT comedy shows, but swaths of those aged very poorly. And while "pull ovah!" remains hysterical, hearing him drop F bombs like that is jarring.

Perhaps I am a hypocrite, because I do not support that, despite the fact that I love those specials. I'm not calling for Eddie's head or anything like that, but I see no harm in recognizing the serious moral flaws in those works.

As works of art, editing those parts out wouldn't be the worst thing ever, and no actual harm is done to anyone in the vent that such a thing happened.

Frankly, the loudest reactions would be the Bill Maher's of the world bitching and moaning about it, but no actual harm would come to a single person, in any meaningful way.

While it's hard to argue that it would cause any significant or meaningful harm to edit those parts out, a reasonable argument can be made that it could potentially help re-normalize the use of that word, and general sentiments toward gay people.

I'm not saying anything in terms of likelihood here, to be clear. I'm just looking at what that looks like in a vacuum.

Further, I'm not calling or advocating for anything of the sort. I used this because I think it's a relevant example given my fondness for Eddie and those two specials.

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

Sticking with the Eddie specials, if you were to edit them in some way to remove their problematic elements 1) it would disrupt their flow and be incredibly obvious and 2) you would lose such a huge example of "this was all not only okay at one time, it was the most popular thing in the country" and "if you think comedy is casually punching down at LGBTQ+ NOW...". If all the men casually knocking out their wives in black and white films were edited out, you lose some context for how casually domestic violence was viewed in this country just half a century ago.


And that's before getting close to discussions like whether Raging Bull were re-made to meet today's standards, would it even have anything to say about Jake LaMotta other than "I coulda been somebody?"


In any case, I think Spielberg is still talking more about altering content that just doesn't demand that alteration. This ET edit happened at a time when him and Lucas were constantly thinking they had better ideas about the movies they made in their prime in their advanced years. Lucas went way further with it, and everyone can agree that just about the nicest thing Disney could ever do would be to breach their contract with Lucas the minute he passes away and release the theatrical cuts of the original trilogy. Not just because they're better and less noxious but because it provides important context to the progression of that franchise. Making A New Hope look more like The Phantom Menace doesn't tell an interesting story, it just wedges new tricks into ill-fitting, arguably non-existent spaces.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Agreed on the rest though. I’m just speaking from the vaccum of what does/doesn’t cause harm, but yeah there are practical reasons not to edit things like that.

>In any case, I think Spielberg is still talking more about
>altering content that just doesn't demand that alteration.

I think if he’s talking about “sensitivities”, he’s at least alluding to modern sensibilities of what we do and don’t generally allow. But I could be wrong.

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

We should judge it and criticize it based on modern values. But we shouldn't change it to fit the current culture.

_______________________________________

or early Apatowverse stuff like Superbad. I think both are still pretty great but they're full of gay jokes that feel dated.

i think he doesn't get shit for it because he's shown in his work that he's moved on from that sort of thing.

It would be one thing if he were trying to do a 2023 rehash of "you know how i now you're gay", then lashing out at backlash or the actors not wanting to do it.

on the flip it would also suck if he wanted any content edited out of his early stuff to fit modern standards.

i haven't heard him discuss any of this, or know his feelings, but i think leave it alone is the right move.

I think it's important that we look back at old art with a modern, critical eye but like I think CT already said, I also think it important that the old art keeps the outdated content intact to *show* our social progress, or to allow us to progress in new ways utilizing the outdated old art's faults.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

It’s one of those things that scares me about the future tbh.

What will satire even look like after a few decades of this climate?

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

it implies the issue is sensitivity as opposed to different values.

But I agree. Let our entertainment stand as a testament to their times.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

Sensitivity was definitely the wrong word.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

they're the problem.

It's detached from any sense of responsibility.

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

I really had never heard of this as a job until a month or two ago, but I guess it's been around a while.

It's not hard to see this becoming good outrage chum when people find out adjustments were made, especially to existing content

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/mar/15/sensitivity-readers-what-publishings-most-polarising-role-is-really-about

but out of fear of getting roasted by the offended group.

not sure if that makes sense.. lol

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

>not sure if that makes sense.. lol

but the "Sensitivity" line is still basically entry level gaslighting

I.E, "i'm sorry you're offended" vs "I'm sorry *I* offended you"

It's a way of avoiding ownership for the artists choices, and placing 100% of the problem on the person for committing the sin of taking offense.

This is in a vacuum, to be sure, so it's relatively harmless unless he's referencing some specific group or something. But it does underscore a common mentality of those who like to hide their hands like they're just a bystander and not the person who said/did whatever it was that got people riled.

Just own your work, and accept that some people won't like it, and some of those people will tell you about it.

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

i also agree with CT in that yes, we should still judge/condemn certain films

like i can't watch Purple Rain anymore...the music holds up but the misogyny doesn't

d

"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

That’s how dangerous it is.

History shouldn’t be tampered with. Movies reflect the tech and intelligence of the
particular period that it was released in.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

and I'm glad Lucas removed them

If it aged poorly due to content, then it is what it is…..it gets criticized, it gets left behind and basically falls off the map(ie, “cancelled”) whatever. But you don’t change it. What was made, is what was made.

Get rid of that blackface bs in old films too.

I got a whole list of stuff I need to see canceled asap.

Getting rid of guns is trash. They'd have to edit at least 90% of action movies if that were the case.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

they have scrubbed anything even remotely offensive in all their movies on Disney+. I watched Adventures in Babysitting the other day with my son. Some of the best lines were changed or completely removed.

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

or archived for ignorance.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I would not be surprised one bit if you wanted VA to keep those confederate statues up.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I don't think it goes on Disney Plus. It's too offensive.

But what they shouldn't do is re-edit to make it less offensive and put it on Disney Plus and have people thinking that disney wasn't doing racist shit 70 years.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

never been to DisneyWorld or watched Snow White and shit..

but my kids love it and I enjoy the fuck outta some Disney plus.

I think its a bit jaded to be like “never let them off the hook” and then as soon as Desantis goes at Disney the same folks got Disney’s back. We know damn well they weren’t inclusive back then either even if some of those niggas was gay as hell.

If a company is trying to right some of its wrongs which side are you taking?

I believe we can “never forget” whole also tossing those racist ass cartoons in the dirt.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

But not change them and continue to profit off it. They know what they made. Shut it down, and do better in the future.

“this you?”

My kids like Aristocats and I couldn’t find it on their Disney plus profile. Turns out they moved it from the kids section and added a warning for insensitive images (the ching chong chopstick cat).

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

and they sprinkle in black people where there would be no black people. I don't believe in helping this country sanitize it's past.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and most references tried to whitewash us out.

We may not have been heavy up in some of those historical time periods but we were there.. they just didn’t want to admit it.

Crispus Attucks?

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*