Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby General Discussion topic #13474402

Subject: "Joe Biden is a walking W...Brittney Griner released." Previous topic | Next topic
Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 08:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Joe Biden is a walking W...Brittney Griner released."
Thu Dec-08-22 08:18 AM by Sofian_Hadi

          

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/08/politics/brittney-griner-released/index.html

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Good for Biden and Russia gets a HUGE WIN
Dec 08th 2022
1
russia got back a burnt asset.
Dec 08th 2022
3
^^^^^ This
Dec 08th 2022
4
It shows other Russian assets that they are valued
Dec 08th 2022
7
Exactly. Folks acting like we sent them Jason Bourne.
Dec 08th 2022
44
LOL
Dec 10th 2022
68
^^^^^
Dec 08th 2022
47
exactly
Dec 08th 2022
5
damn this shit really got me emotional.
Dec 08th 2022
2
word, i'm so incredibly happy for her
Dec 09th 2022
63
The impact of this decision...
Dec 08th 2022
6
Care to expound?
Dec 08th 2022
8
      The don't negotiate with hostage takers policy
Dec 08th 2022
9
           so when was it an actual policy?
Dec 08th 2022
10
           RE: so when was it an actual policy?
Dec 08th 2022
11
                I think the word "hostage" is throwing people off.
Dec 08th 2022
12
                ah possibly.
Dec 08th 2022
14
                     RE: ah possibly.
Dec 08th 2022
15
                     yeah i think dude was the lone survivor from the bunch.
Dec 08th 2022
16
                     Oh somebody takes Sully Sullenberger hostage, we're coming for em!
Dec 08th 2022
17
                          sully being anti-trump was one of the best plot twists of last season.
Dec 08th 2022
18
                obama unfroze cash for iran and used it to free hostages in iran.
Dec 08th 2022
13
           i dont think thats ever applied to prisoners of recognized govts
Dec 08th 2022
23
Amazing news - super happy for Griner
Dec 08th 2022
19
What ?
Dec 08th 2022
20
      yea thats what he said
Dec 08th 2022
21
      Is it
Dec 08th 2022
22
      No.
Dec 08th 2022
24
           It was never going to be equal
Dec 08th 2022
25
           They gave up a celebrity.
Dec 08th 2022
26
                I see what you’re saying
Dec 08th 2022
27
                     paul whelan has been in custody for about 4 years now.
Dec 08th 2022
28
                     it was, they said no...
Dec 08th 2022
31
                     Wait what's the logic here?
Dec 08th 2022
32
                          Whelan is an ex-marine who has served 4 years in a penal colony
Dec 08th 2022
36
                               If the logic is he has been in longer, then he should get out first.
Dec 08th 2022
46
                               Whelan was dishonorably discharged for stealing 10K among other things
Dec 08th 2022
49
                                    That has nothing to do with his case in Russia
Dec 08th 2022
50
                                         just pointing out there is reason they generally don't refer to him...
Dec 08th 2022
51
                                              This is all sorry of silly because we all know nothing.
Dec 08th 2022
52
                                                   Whelan's military status is not a secret, thats what I was commenting on...
Dec 08th 2022
54
apparently some people were perfectly fine letting griner rot
Dec 08th 2022
29
Another of the dumber Bout related takes I've read...
Dec 08th 2022
30
Yep. One guy isn’t going to fix the rot of corruption in their militar...
Dec 08th 2022
40
White Americans are extremely patriotic, and
Dec 08th 2022
34
Nah white Americans are racist
Dec 08th 2022
41
whole bunch of us are on that bullshit.
Dec 08th 2022
45
glad to see it.
Dec 08th 2022
33
not here for the "lopsided trade" or "what about Whelan" takes.
Dec 08th 2022
35
So you would’ve been cool with Whelan being swapped
Dec 08th 2022
37
nope.
Dec 08th 2022
38
how you been on here for 20 years and STILL can't read?
Dec 08th 2022
48
ahh that makes sense. thanks for explaining. n/m
Dec 10th 2022
66
RE: Joe Biden is a walking W...Brittney Griner released.
Dec 08th 2022
39
thank you. said it more concisely than what i was trying to say.
Dec 08th 2022
43
Big respect to BG’s wife
Dec 08th 2022
42
The GOP ....
Dec 08th 2022
53
its funny that they want to call BG "unpatriotic" for not standing for.....
Dec 10th 2022
67
It’s disgusting that people are grading this like a sports trade
Dec 09th 2022
55
Exactly!
Dec 09th 2022
58
Screamin A talking about that shit was jarring af
Dec 09th 2022
61
this is where i am with it
Dec 09th 2022
65
I know it's bs, but the transphobic and racist comments are infuriating ...
Dec 09th 2022
56
If she was Sue Bird the Republicans would be doing back flips.
Dec 09th 2022
59
      maybe not, she is LGBTQ also
Dec 09th 2022
60
No win situation. But a life was preserved so…a net positive IMO.
Dec 09th 2022
57
Biden has done a really nice job
Dec 09th 2022
62
WaPo article on Viktor Bout (link & swipe)
Dec 09th 2022
64
'they' are saying biden got griner out to beat the deal kanye was doing.
Dec 13th 2022
69
I Ye.. yeahhhhh okay.. lol.
Dec 13th 2022
70
GTFOHWTBS
Dec 16th 2022
71
Whelan
Dec 16th 2022
72
It takes a lot of work to be mad at this.
Dec 16th 2022
73
yeah, people GOTTA chill w/ this Whelan shit.
Dec 16th 2022
74
Wheelan was on the table - when Trump was president
Dec 16th 2022
75
      oh jesus.
Dec 16th 2022
77
RE: It takes a lot of work to be mad at this.
Dec 16th 2022
76
      What ? Your takes are horrible
Dec 16th 2022
78
      LOL, right?
Dec 16th 2022
79
      Are you still a Mormon?
Dec 16th 2022
80
you never disappoint lol.
Dec 16th 2022
81

handle
Charter member
18951 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 08:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "Good for Biden and Russia gets a HUGE WIN"
In response to Reply # 0


          

First, Biden did the right thing and did it as well as anyone could reasonably expect.

But it was simply a "legal" kidnapping by Russia - one SEVERAL people on this very board agree with - and they got back someone of much higher value.

Stay out of Russia.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 08:52 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "russia got back a burnt asset."
In response to Reply # 1


          

im not sure what use he would be to them at this point.

they cant even trust that he didnt spill sny secrets to our gov.

this is basically just something putin can parade to his people while he gets his ass kicked in ukraine.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 08:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "^^^^^ This"
In response to Reply # 3


          

People on twitter talking about the US got "fleeced." Dude is burnt. This was a publicity proxy war. The US got back the most known of the two, the other guy is going back to Russia as a former, totally exposed, arms dealer. This is no different than the War in Ukraine. Fluff from Russia, but a growing L.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
handle
Charter member
18951 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 09:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "It shows other Russian assets that they are valued"
In response to Reply # 3


          

>im not sure what use he would be to them at this point.
>
>they cant even trust that he didnt spill sny secrets to our
>gov.
>
>this is basically just something putin can parade to his
>people while he gets his ass kicked in ukraine.

I think this promotes loyalty to Russia and will used to encourage current and future Russian assets.

But I'm glad Biden did it and I'm glad that she's back.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Castro
Charter member
50749 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "Exactly. Folks acting like we sent them Jason Bourne. "
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27116 posts
Sat Dec-10-22 03:32 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 44


          

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 09:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 1


          

>First, Biden did the right thing and did it as well as anyone
>could reasonably expect.
>
>But it was simply a "legal" kidnapping by Russia - one SEVERAL
>people on this very board agree with - and they got back
>someone of much higher value.
>
>Stay out of Russia.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 08:48 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "damn this shit really got me emotional."
In response to Reply # 0


          

salute to uncle joe for real.

merry christmas britney!

hell of a present for her and her fam.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Fri Dec-09-22 10:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "word, i'm so incredibly happy for her"
In response to Reply # 2


          


"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

CyrenYoung
Charter member
34204 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 09:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "The impact of this decision..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

..this is a serious shift in policy.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
snacks
Member since Sep 15th 2005
5814 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 09:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "Care to expound?"
In response to Reply # 6


          

Genuine question. I haven't been following this story very closely

_____________________________________

The Brand Pod
https://www.youtube.com/@themonarchbrand
https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/2023071.rss

The Life Pod
https://www.youtube.com/@thewaterpodcast
https://redcircle.com/shows/the-water-podcast

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 09:38 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "The don't negotiate with hostage takers policy"
In response to Reply # 8


          

It incentivizes others to use hostage taking as a way to get concessions from the US government. Although this is far from the first prisoner swap we have done.

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 09:50 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "so when was it an actual policy?"
In response to Reply # 9


          

>Although this is far from
>the first prisoner swap we have done.

name a president in recent history who didnt negotiate to free an american hostage.

this aint even the first american biden freed from russia on drug charges.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3497558-former-marine-trevor-reed-credits-biden-for-his-release/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 10:02 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "RE: so when was it an actual policy?"
In response to Reply # 10
Thu Dec-08-22 10:04 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

Biden Executive Order: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2022/07/19/executive-order-on-bolstering-efforts-to-bring-hostages-and-wrongfully-detained-united-states-nationals-home/

"Executive Order 13698 and PPD-30 shall continue to apply to United States hostage recovery activities. Nothing in this order shall alter the responsibilities of the Hostage Recovery Fusion Cell (HRFC), the Hostage Response Group (HRG), or the Special Presidential Envoy for Hostage Affairs (SPEHA), established by Executive Order 13698, with respect to hostage recovery activities under Executive Order 13698 or PPD-30. Nor shall this order alter the scope of PPD-30, which applies to both suspected and confirmed hostage-takings in which a United States national is abducted or held outside of the United States, as well as to other hostage-takings occurring abroad in which the United States has a national interest, but does not apply if a foreign government confirms that it has detained a United States national."



PPD-30: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2015/06/24/presidential-policy-directive-hostage-recovery-activities

"The United States will use every appropriate resource to gain the safe return of U.S. nationals who are held hostage. But the United States Government will make no concessions to individuals or groups holding U.S. nationals hostage. It is United States policy to deny hostage-takers the benefits of ransom, prisoner releases, policy changes, or other acts of concession."


It seems like the Biden Exec Order carved out a niche by saying "but does not apply if a foreign government confirms that it has detained a United States national". Also, I guess it could be argued that these are not hostages, but prisoners convicted of crimes.

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 10:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "I think the word "hostage" is throwing people off."
In response to Reply # 11


          


We can all agree that for all practical purposes she was being held hostage. But since it was by a recognized government I think legally speaking she was classified as a prisoner, not a hostage.

The rules against deals for hostages (in my admittedly internetty understanding) are about negotiating with non-governmental actors or organizations that have taken someone hostage. There have been exceptions to these rules as well, but i don't think this is that.

But prisoner swaps with outside governments have always happened.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 10:23 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "ah possibly."
In response to Reply # 12


          

obama handed over nothing but eternal dirt naps to those somali pirates who kidnapped tom hanks.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 10:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "RE: ah possibly."
In response to Reply # 14


          

>obama handed over nothing but eternal dirt naps to those
>somali pirates who kidnapped tom hanks.

actually isn't "the captain" in jail?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 10:42 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "yeah i think dude was the lone survivor from the bunch."
In response to Reply # 15


          

they told him to give it up and come out after they clapped his crew. then cuffed him and hauled him off.

i think lol.

mind you...im going off my recollection of the film and havent looked up the real life details lol.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 10:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "Oh somebody takes Sully Sullenberger hostage, we're coming for em!"
In response to Reply # 14


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 11:12 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "sully being anti-trump was one of the best plot twists of last season."
In response to Reply # 17


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 10:18 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "obama unfroze cash for iran and used it to free hostages in iran."
In response to Reply # 11


          

he swapped taliban detainees in guatanamo for pow bowe bergdahl in afghanistan.

every president has done similar stuff.

i dont have time to read the full directives you posted if these are exceptions, loopholes, semantic distinctions, etc or still adherent to the letter of the law.

but clearly...theres been no 'change in policy' as far as actual history of behavior...as this stuff has taken place all the time through several administrations (like you noted in your original reply).

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35254 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 02:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
23. "i dont think thats ever applied to prisoners of recognized govts"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 01:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
19. "Amazing news - super happy for Griner"
In response to Reply # 0


          

But man that stings for Paul Whelan who’s been imprisoned for 4 years and didn’t get the benefit of the celebrity privilege.

Exchanging someone imprisoned for personal cannabis use for one of the world’s most deadliest arms traffickers (the actual “merchant of death”) is about as inequitable of a prisoner swap as it gets.

Huge W for Griner - but what a finesse by Russia. They came up big in this deal and totally exploited the celebrity coverage of Griner.

Feeling really bad for Whelan and his family - but was glad to see solidarity from both the Whelan and Griner families — even though the Whelan family rightfully expressed frustration with Biden on this. He absolutely should’ve been part of this deal.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
5187 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 02:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "What ?"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

So they should leave Griner since Whelan wasn't included ? smh

---------------------------
Signature

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6778 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 02:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "yea thats what he said"
In response to Reply # 20


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
5187 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 02:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "Is it"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

n/m

---------------------------
Signature

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 02:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
24. "No. "
In response to Reply # 20


          

What I’m saying is this was a lopsided prisoner swap.
-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
5187 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 02:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "It was never going to be equal"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

n/m

---------------------------
Signature

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 02:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "They gave up a celebrity. "
In response to Reply # 24


          


A celebrity whose imprisonment, as you noted, has galvanized the American public.

We gave up a guy who by all accounts (including his trial judge) was retired from his illicit activities even before we caught him.

Seems like they gave up a lot more leverage than we did.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 02:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
27. "I see what you’re saying "
In response to Reply # 26
Thu Dec-08-22 02:56 PM by Vex_id

          

And this is rightfully being celebrated - but what I’m referencing is the gross inequity in the two offenses. Viktor Bout was arguably the most prolific arms trafficker in modern history. Griner carried a tiny amount of cannabis oil with her through an airport.

These two offenses are about as different as it gets. Usually prisoner swaps have some semblance of parity, but Griner’s celebrity drove the narrative here. What would be interesting to know is whether a Bout for Whelan swap was ever on the table prior to Griner’s arrest.

Also - I’m not sure it’s material that Bout had retired from trafficking when he was convicted. You can murder people for years and then retire from it one day, never doing it again. That doesn’t somehow excuse the prior murders simply because the murderer had a change of heart (though it may factor into a mitigated sentencing).

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 03:04 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "paul whelan has been in custody for about 4 years now."
In response to Reply # 27


          

got jammed up during the trump administration.

if pootybear wasnt tryna give his fan trump some good election year pr and let whelan go home...then you know russia aint really tryna work anything out for him lol.

biden addressed it a bit in his comments. he said russia views the cases very differently (they classify whelan as espionage). so they are much less likely to negotiate his release.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 03:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "it was, they said no..."
In response to Reply # 27


          

>What would be interesting
>to know is whether a Bout for Whelan swap was ever on the
>table prior to Griner’s arrest.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49415 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 03:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "Wait what's the logic here?"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

>These two offenses are about as different as it gets. Usually
>prisoner swaps have some semblance of parity, but Griner’s
>celebrity drove the narrative here. What would be interesting
>to know is whether a Bout for Whelan swap was ever on the
>table prior to Griner’s arrest.

Can't follow your logic here, you think it would have made more sense to free an American who was as awful and did as heinous acts as Bout in exchange for Bout?

I don't understand the reasoning behind not trying to get the person least deserving to be in jail out first (unless I misunderstand you).





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 03:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
36. "Whelan is an ex-marine who has served 4 years in a penal colony "
In response to Reply # 32


          


>
>Can't follow your logic here, you think it would have made
>more sense to free an American who was as awful and did as
>heinous acts as Bout in exchange for Bout?

I’m not following your logic either. What did Whelan do that was “as awful and heinous” as Bout ? Whelan was accused of espionage - charges both he and the U.S. government deny - and was given a bogus trial and convicted on bullshit (much like Griner). So no - Whelan wasn’t and isn’t on the same level of Bout. Even if he was a spy - that still wouldn’t put him on par with Bout.

Whelan has been unfairly imprisoned and has been doing hard labor in a Russian penal colony for nearly a half decade.

>I don't understand the reasoning behind not trying to get the
>person least deserving to be in jail out first (unless I
>misunderstand you).

You get Griner out regardless and I’m glad that they did. But this was a prisoner swap: you generally don’t swap somebody who committed one of the most prolific international war crimes for somebody who barely committed a misdemeanor. Also, I’m not so sure it’s fair to say Whelan is any more deserving of being in a penal colony than anyone else unfairly charged and sentenced by Putin’s authoritarian Russia.

>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49415 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "If the logic is he has been in longer, then he should get out first. "
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

I understand that logic. However I also understand the logic and am more supportive of the idea that a spy would be held to a different standard than someone who committed a misdemeanor.

It's this statement I don't get:


"But this was a prisoner swap: you generally don’t swap somebody who committed one of the most prolific international war crimes for somebody who barely committed a misdemeanor."



So if you had to choose between getting someone out of a russian jail earlier between a spy and someone who committed a misdemeanor, you wouldn't want to get out the person caught with a joint over a spy?


BTW, I am assuming Whealan is a spy and I understand that there wasn't a choice for the US between Whealen and Granier. It was Granier or nothing.

Also I wasn't saying that Whealan's acts were as heinous as the Russian dude. I have no means to judge what he did and definitely have no means to judge how bad the Russians viewed what he did, alledgely.



>
>>
>>Can't follow your logic here, you think it would have made
>>more sense to free an American who was as awful and did as
>>heinous acts as Bout in exchange for Bout?
>
>I’m not following your logic either. What did Whelan do
>that was “as awful and heinous” as Bout ? Whelan was
>accused of espionage - charges both he and the U.S. government
>deny - and was given a bogus trial and convicted on bullshit
>(much like Griner). So no - Whelan wasn’t and isn’t on
>the same level of Bout. Even if he was a spy - that still
>wouldn’t put him on par with Bout.
>
>Whelan has been unfairly imprisoned and has been doing hard
>labor in a Russian penal colony for nearly a half decade.
>
>>I don't understand the reasoning behind not trying to get
>the
>>person least deserving to be in jail out first (unless I
>>misunderstand you).
>
>You get Griner out regardless and I’m glad that they did.
>But this was a prisoner swap: you generally don’t swap
>somebody who committed one of the most prolific international
>war crimes for somebody who barely committed a misdemeanor.
>Also, I’m not so sure it’s fair to say Whelan is any more
>deserving of being in a penal colony than anyone else unfairly
>charged and sentenced by Putin’s authoritarian Russia.
>
>>
>>**********
>>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>>
>>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 05:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "Whelan was dishonorably discharged for stealing 10K among other things"
In response to Reply # 36


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 05:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
50. "That has nothing to do with his case in Russia"
In response to Reply # 49


          

One could also say that Griner was convicted of smuggling drugs (as a lot of GOP simps are doing) - but that has nothing to do with the draconian way she was treated.

Just because someone did x 25 years ago doesn’t mean that they are then guilty of y 10 years ago.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 05:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "just pointing out there is reason they generally don't refer to him..."
In response to Reply # 50


          

as a Marine or ex-Marine in the news they just refer to him as an American and downplay his military service record

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49415 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 05:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
52. "This is all sorry of silly because we all know nothing."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

That is, we probably know as much as anybody on Griners situation, but we really should admit we nothing about Bout, his strategic value to Russia, what the US knows about his strategic value to Russia, etc.

Same goes for Whealen. We don't know whether he was really a spy, we don't know what damage he did to Russia, his strategic value to the US, etc.

But do you know who does know all these things I just mentioned? The folks who made the deal!

Just a long way of saying what many folks are already saying, everyone is a national security, international relationship expert as of this morning.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 07:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
54. "Whelan's military status is not a secret, thats what I was commenting on..."
In response to Reply # 52


          

>That is, we probably know as much as anybody on Griners
>situation, but we really should admit we nothing about Bout,
>his strategic value to Russia, what the US knows about his
>strategic value to Russia, etc.
>
>Same goes for Whealen. We don't know whether he was really a
>spy, we don't know what damage he did to Russia, his strategic
>value to the US, etc.
>
>But do you know who does know all these things I just
>mentioned? The folks who made the deal!
>
>Just a long way of saying what many folks are already saying,
>everyone is a national security, international relationship
>expert as of this morning.
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 03:06 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "apparently some people were perfectly fine letting griner rot"
In response to Reply # 0


          

in a russian penal colony for 9 years and possibly die.

oddly enough...bout had 10 years left on his sentence. so they both got released with similar amounts of time left to serve.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 03:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
30. "Another of the dumber Bout related takes I've read..."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

...is that freeing him is somehow going to help turn the tide for Russia in the Ukraine.

Dawg, it's fucking Russia. The second heaviest armed country in the world. They don't need Bout to get them weapons. If Putin was waiting on him to "save" them, then that country is more fucked than we thought.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "Yep. One guy isn’t going to fix the rot of corruption in their militar..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

It also feels far fetched to me that he will just ..return to arms dealing as some suggest

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 03:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "White Americans are extremely patriotic, and "
In response to Reply # 29
Thu Dec-08-22 03:52 PM by allStah

          

when you add the reality that a marine, who has been detained by Russia
for 4 years, was not part of the swap arrangement, that is going to leave
a lot of Americans incensed.

Their mentality is that of a soldier: no one gets left behind.
We all go or we all stay behind.

Russia knew/knows that America’s values are bad on PERCEPTION and the
court of public opinion, and so America wilted to the pressure of an American
celebrity being detained. It was going to constantly be reported, so Biden didn’t
want to carry that type of burden or weight during his presidency…..

This is going to be promoted by the media as a huge victory, but now
Biden is going to have to deal with whole lot of pushback.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
5187 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "Nah white Americans are racist"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          



So you are saying white Americans wanted Trevor Reed to stay when they released him, because Griner and Whelan didn't get out at the same time.

Yeah I'm sure the pushback is worse then what it would be if had a chance to get someone and turned it down.

---------------------------
Signature

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Castro
Charter member
50749 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "whole bunch of us are on that bullshit. "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 03:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
33. "glad to see it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the guilty plea was basically the hint that it would happen eventually.

wishing her the best in life and hoop (I really want to see her play again after this)

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

PROMO
Charter member
30966 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 03:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
35. "not here for the "lopsided trade" or "what about Whelan" takes."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Dec-08-22 04:02 PM by PROMO

  

          

like, if you see it as lopsided? so what. unfortunately, it's not REALLY about what the U.S. wanted here it's about what Russia wanted.

the choice was simple: give Russia something they wanted (Bout), or let Griner rot.

Russia felt they would give Griner for Bout. period. that's the deal. we can do it, or let Griner live out the next decade in a penal colony.

see, Russia was fine letting Bout rot, so they have the uppper hand. the U.S. tends to not be in the business of letting it's citizens rot in foreign prisons. Russia? not so much.

and as for Whelan? unfortunately we don't have anything Russia thinks he's worth trading for. it sucks, obviously, but until we have an asset worth trading, we're just kinda screwed there. unless i'm misreading the quote or the intention? even his own brother thinks that.

this was as good as it was gonna get, so it's a good deal cuz it's the ONLY deal. the other side of the coin of not taking the deal is NO ONE gets to go home.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
37. "So you would’ve been cool with Whelan being swapped "
In response to Reply # 35


          

And Griner being left to rot because “you get whatever deal you can get” no matter how imbalanced it may be?

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
PROMO
Charter member
30966 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
38. "nope."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

not what i said.

not cool with letting anyone being left to rot.

nice try tho.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "how you been on here for 20 years and STILL can't read?"
In response to Reply # 37


          

smh

d

"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6778 posts
Sat Dec-10-22 07:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
66. "ahh that makes sense. thanks for explaining. n/m"
In response to Reply # 35


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "RE: Joe Biden is a walking W...Brittney Griner released."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The situation is always going to be imbalanced when a liberal democracy swaps with an authoritarian regime

Democratic countries often times face greater domestic and public pressure to return unjustly convicted citizens.

Authoritarian regimes Can use these exchanges as propaganda or to achieve some political action without the usual compunction.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
PROMO
Charter member
30966 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
43. "thank you. said it more concisely than what i was trying to say."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

>The situation is always going to be imbalanced when a liberal
>democracy swaps with an authoritarian regime
>
> Democratic countries often times face greater domestic and
>public pressure to return unjustly convicted citizens.
>
>Authoritarian regimes Can use these exchanges as propaganda or
>to achieve some political action without the usual
>compunction.
>
>

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 04:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
42. "Big respect to BG’s wife "
In response to Reply # 0


          

She was exceptional today at the press conference, realizing just how fortunate they are and vowing to continue to advocate for Paul (and others) unjustly imprisoned by Putin and his goons.

Seeing the Griner and Whelan family on the same page has been beautiful to see.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

handle
Charter member
18951 posts
Thu Dec-08-22 07:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. "The GOP ...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

The GOP Is Refusing To Celebrate Brittney Griner's Release
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gop-brittney-griner-release_n_63923169e4b0804966aa9b7b

Republicans and right-wing media figures have found a litany of reasons to be mad about the release of WNBA star Brittney Griner, who was freed in a prisoner swap Thursday after nearly a year in the Kremlin’s clutches.

Much of their rhetoric centers on the bigoted assertion that Griner ― a Black, gay athlete who has been vocal about police brutality and racial justice ― is anti-American for being outspoken in politics, and therefore unworthy of rescue by the Biden administration.

Ex-President Donald Trump had one of the most aggressive attacks Thursday, writing on his social media platform Truth Social that Griner is “a basketball player who openly hates our Country” and that it was a “‘stupid’ and unpatriotic embarrassment for the USA” to free her in exchange for Viktor Bout, a notorious Russian arms dealer.

His comments were a not-so-subtle reference to Griner’s participation in protests against police brutality. Following the 2020 police killings of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, Griner, who plays for the Phoenix Mercury, joined many professional athletes in calling attention to their deaths by refusing to stand for the national anthem during games and calling for the anthem not to be played at all.

Trump wasn’t the only GOP figure to harp on Griner’s protests Thursday.

“I sure hope she’ll stand for the national anthem,” Sen. Roger Marshall (R-Kan.) told reporters.

“I wonder if Brittney Griner will sing and stand for the National Anthem now that the United States has compromised national security to free her?” Tomi Lahren, a prominent Fox News personality, tweeted, adding in a bizarre jab about women’s athletics: “I guess it pays to be a whiny celebrity who plays sports (even if no one watches).”

Others suggested Griner was less worthy of release than Paul Whelan, an ex-Marine who has been detained in Russia since 2018 on accusations of being a spy. The Russians, U.S. officials explained Thursday, were unwilling to negotiate on Whelan, whom they consider to be a more important prisoner. President Joe Biden said Thursday that Russia’s reasoning is “totally illegitimate” and that efforts to free Whelan are continuing.

But none of the GOP figures complaining about Griner’s release acknowledged those nuances.

“Where is U.S. Marine Paul Whelan, who has been unjustly held by Russia for far longer?” Rep. Mike Waltz (R-Fla.) tweeted. “Celebrities over veterans?”

“Why wasn’t former Marine Paul Whelan included in this totally one-sided transaction? He would have been let out for the asking,” insisted Trump, who stayed silent on Whelan throughout his presidency.

“So just traded an enemy who smuggles guns and helps shoot Americans for an American who smuggles drugs and shoots basketballs, all while a former US Marine, Paul Whelan, rots in a Russian prison,” Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.) tweeted. “Let that sink in.”

The barb he snuck in calling Griner a drug smuggler is excessive and misleading. Griner was detained at a Russian airport in February for carrying vaporizer cartridges containing less than a gram of hash oil, not for operating some sort of international drug-running scheme.

Whelan and his family said Thursday they were surprised and disappointed U.S. officials weren’t able to secure his release alongside Griner’s, but they did so without attacking her or making unfair comparisons.

“I was led to believe that things were moving in the right direction, and that the governments were negotiating and that something would happen fairly soon,” Whelan, who is four years into a 16-year sentence for espionage, told CNN. He also acknowledged that Russia is treating him differently than Griner and put him “at a level higher” in negotiations.

His family also gave a statement to Fox News, which ran a lengthy opinion story demanding Griner start standing for the national anthem, saying they applaud the Biden administration for making “the deal that was possible, rather than waiting for one that wasn’t going to happen.”

Some GOP leaders HuffPost spoke to Thursday pushed back on their colleagues’ rhetoric.

“Very pleased she’s coming home. Pleased for her, her family, our country,” Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) said. “They’d like to bring home an arms dealer. It’s symbolic of their country that that’s what they consider important to return.”

Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa) also praised Biden’s decision and acknowledged Whelan’s return as a separate matter.

Ernst said: “I’m very thankful that she’s coming home. Any time we can get an American home, that’s good. We paid a very heavy price to get her released, and there’s still no path forward on Paul Whelan.”

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Sat Dec-10-22 11:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
67. "its funny that they want to call BG "unpatriotic" for not standing for....."
In response to Reply # 53


          

the national anthem when Whelan was dishonorably discharged from the Marine Corps for trying to still thousands of dollars from the government to me that's far more unpatriotic but politicians and the press like to avoid that part

>The GOP Is Refusing To Celebrate Brittney Griner's Release
>https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gop-brittney-griner-release_n_63923169e4b0804966aa9b7b
>
>Republicans and right-wing media figures have found a litany
>of reasons to be mad about the release of WNBA star Brittney
>Griner, who was freed in a prisoner swap Thursday after nearly
>a year in the Kremlin’s clutches.
>
>Much of their rhetoric centers on the bigoted assertion that
>Griner ― a Black, gay athlete who has been vocal about
>police brutality and racial justice ― is anti-American for
>being outspoken in politics, and therefore unworthy of rescue
>by the Biden administration.
>
>Ex-President Donald Trump had one of the most aggressive
>attacks Thursday, writing on his social media platform Truth
>Social that Griner is “a basketball player who openly hates
>our Country” and that it was a “‘stupid’ and
>unpatriotic embarrassment for the USA” to free her in
>exchange for Viktor Bout, a notorious Russian arms dealer.
>
>His comments were a not-so-subtle reference to Griner’s
>participation in protests against police brutality. Following
>the 2020 police killings of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor,
>Griner, who plays for the Phoenix Mercury, joined many
>professional athletes in calling attention to their deaths by
>refusing to stand for the national anthem during games and
>calling for the anthem not to be played at all.
>
>Trump wasn’t the only GOP figure to harp on Griner’s
>protests Thursday.
>
>“I sure hope she’ll stand for the national anthem,” Sen.
>Roger Marshall (R-Kan.) told reporters.
>
>“I wonder if Brittney Griner will sing and stand for the
>National Anthem now that the United States has compromised
>national security to free her?” Tomi Lahren, a prominent Fox
>News personality, tweeted, adding in a bizarre jab about
>women’s athletics: “I guess it pays to be a whiny
>celebrity who plays sports (even if no one watches).”
>
>Others suggested Griner was less worthy of release than Paul
>Whelan, an ex-Marine who has been detained in Russia since
>2018 on accusations of being a spy. The Russians, U.S.
>officials explained Thursday, were unwilling to negotiate on
>Whelan, whom they consider to be a more important prisoner.
>President Joe Biden said Thursday that Russia’s reasoning is
>“totally illegitimate” and that efforts to free Whelan are
>continuing.
>
>But none of the GOP figures complaining about Griner’s
>release acknowledged those nuances.
>
>“Where is U.S. Marine Paul Whelan, who has been unjustly
>held by Russia for far longer?” Rep. Mike Waltz (R-Fla.)
>tweeted. “Celebrities over veterans?”
>
>“Why wasn’t former Marine Paul Whelan included in this
>totally one-sided transaction? He would have been let out for
>the asking,” insisted Trump, who stayed silent on Whelan
>throughout his presidency.
>
>“So just traded an enemy who smuggles guns and helps
>shoot Americans for an American who smuggles drugs and shoots
>basketballs, all while a former US Marine, Paul Whelan, rots
>in a Russian prison,” Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.) tweeted.
>“Let that sink in.”
>
>The barb he snuck in calling Griner a drug smuggler is
>excessive and misleading. Griner was detained at a Russian
>airport in February for carrying vaporizer cartridges
>containing less than a gram of hash oil, not for operating
>some sort of international drug-running scheme.
>
>Whelan and his family said Thursday they were surprised and
>disappointed U.S. officials weren’t able to secure his
>release alongside Griner’s, but they did so without
>attacking her or making unfair comparisons.
>
>“I was led to believe that things were moving in the right
>direction, and that the governments were negotiating and that
>something would happen fairly soon,” Whelan, who is four
>years into a 16-year sentence for espionage, told CNN. He also
>acknowledged that Russia is treating him differently than
>Griner and put him “at a level higher” in negotiations.
>
>His family also gave a statement to Fox News, which ran a
>lengthy opinion story demanding Griner start standing for the
>national anthem, saying they applaud the Biden administration
>for making “the deal that was possible, rather than waiting
>for one that wasn’t going to happen.”
>
>Some GOP leaders HuffPost spoke to Thursday pushed back on
>their colleagues’ rhetoric.
>
>“Very pleased she’s coming home. Pleased for her, her
>family, our country,” Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) said.
>“They’d like to bring home an arms dealer. It’s symbolic
>of their country that that’s what they consider important to
>return.”
>
>Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa) also praised Biden’s decision and
>acknowledged Whelan’s return as a separate matter.
>
>Ernst said: “I’m very thankful that she’s coming home.
>Any time we can get an American home, that’s good. We paid a
>very heavy price to get her released, and there’s still no
>path forward on Paul Whelan.”

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13928 posts
Fri Dec-09-22 12:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "It’s disgusting that people are grading this like a sports trade"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Dec-09-22 12:48 AM by calij81

          

This isn’t the NFL draft with the Jimmy Johnson trade chart or some other sports trade for us to grade and appoint winners and losers.

Russia and Bout didn’t “win”, American and BG won because a wrongly convicted woman being held as a political prisoner is now safely home with her family and America used all its resources at its disposal to do so.

I am happy for BG and her family. I feel terrible for Whelan and his family.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Dec-09-22 05:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
58. "Exactly!"
In response to Reply # 55


          

>This isn’t the NFL draft with the Jimmy Johnson trade chart
>or some other sports trade for us to grade and appoint winners
>and losers.
>
>Russia and Bout didn’t “win”, American and BG won
>because a wrongly convicted woman being held as a political
>prisoner is now safely home with her family and America used
>all its resources at its disposal to do so.
>
>I am happy for BG and her family. I feel terrible for Whelan
>and his family.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85073 posts
Fri Dec-09-22 09:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "Screamin A talking about that shit was jarring af"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

I had to change the channel it was gross

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4550 posts
Fri Dec-09-22 12:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
65. "this is where i am with it"
In response to Reply # 55


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

shygurl
Member since Oct 08th 2002
13361 posts
Fri Dec-09-22 12:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "I know it's bs, but the transphobic and racist comments are infuriating ..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Obviously I know the comments are made by the absolute lowest scumbags, but as usual black women constantly get shit on for doing nothing more than existing. It's so fucking tiring.

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Fri Dec-09-22 07:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "If she was Sue Bird the Republicans would be doing back flips."
In response to Reply # 56


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Dec-09-22 08:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "maybe not, she is LGBTQ also"
In response to Reply # 59


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43744 posts
Fri Dec-09-22 02:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "No win situation. But a life was preserved so…a net positive IMO. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

makaveli
Charter member
16303 posts
Fri Dec-09-22 09:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
62. "Biden has done a really nice job"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Happy for her and her loved ones.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
22290 posts
Fri Dec-09-22 12:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "WaPo article on Viktor Bout (link & swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          




https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/29/victor-bout-gru-sechin/

At the U.S. penitentiary in Marion, Ill., in a special unit so restrictive that it has the nickname “Little Guantánamo,” a broad-chested, mustachioed man nicknamed the “merchant of death,” who speaks at least six languages, was serving a 25-year term after building a gun-smuggling empire that spanned the globe.

His name was Viktor Bout. And his native Russia wanted him home, badly. The big question: Why?

Who is Viktor Bout, Russian arms dealer eyed in rumored prisoner swap?

On Thursday, Bout was swapped in a prisoner exchange for Brittney Griner, the U.S. basketball star detained in Russia since February on drug charges. President Biden commuted Bout’s sentence, a senior U.S. official said.

Griner was accused of arriving at an airport near Moscow in February with vape cartridges in her luggage containing less than a gram of cannabis oil, which is illegal in Russia. Her lawyers said it was prescribed to treat chronic pain and other conditions.

Bout, 55, is the most notorious arms dealer of his time, accused of profiting from weapons that fueled conflict in Africa, the Middle East and Asia.

There is little doubt that Bout is a top prize for Russian officials, who protested his treatment since his 2008 arrest in Thailand after a Drug Enforcement Administration sting. Steve Zissou, Bout’s New York-based lawyer, warned in July that “no Americans will be exchanged unless Viktor Bout is sent home.”

What’s less clear, however, is exactly why Russia cares so much about Bout. When CIA Director William J. Burns, at the Aspen Security Forum in July, was asked why Russia wanted Bout, Burns responded: “That’s a good question, because Viktor Bout’s a creep.”

Bout’s lawyer argued that the swap was fair.

“As I have urged for some time, given the 15 long years that Viktor Bout has been in custody since the United States government targeted him in 2006, his exchange for Brittney Griner, who has only been in custody for a few months, is fair,” Zissou told The Washington Post on Thursday night. “Hopefully, this is just the first of many reasonable agreements between the U.S. and Russia that will lead to better relations and a safer world.”

Though Russia complained that Bout was entrapped by the DEA, many U.S. officials and analysts say Moscow’s anger was not linked to the merits of the case, but rather Bout’s links to Russian military intelligence.

U.S. officials hope public pressure will bring Russian release of prisoners

“It’s clear that he had significant ties to Russian government circles,” said Lee Wolosky, a National Security Council official in the Clinton administration who led early efforts to tackle Bout’s network.

Though less famous than the KGB and its successor the FSB, Russia’s military intelligence agency, commonly known as the GRU, has a reputation for taking bolder and riskier actions. It has been accused in recent years of operations ranging from hacking elections to assassinating dissidents.

Additionally, reports suggest that Bout could have close ties to Igor Sechin, a former deputy prime minister of Russia and an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Both Sechin and Bout served with the Soviet military in Africa during the 1980s.

Bout has denied any such links to the GRU. He has also said he doesn’t know Sechin.

But that silence could be the point. The arms trafficker refused to cooperate with U.S. authorities, even as he sat for over a decade, isolated and alone, in a cell thousands of miles from his home in Moscow. That silence could be rewarded.

“He kept his cool in prison, never exposed anything to the Americans, as far as I can tell,” said Russian journalist Andrei Soldatov.

Simon Saradzhyan of Harvard University’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs said that Bout could never have operated such a large smuggling business without government protection, but that he never spoke about it. “The Russian government is eager to retrieve him so that it stays that way,” Saradzhyan said.

Freeing Bout would send a message to others who could end up in trouble, said Mark Galeotti, an expert on Russian security, over the summer: “The motherland will not forget you.”

Russia’s Foreign Ministry celebrated Bout’s release in a statement Thursday, saying the arms dealer had “returned to his homeland.”

“Thank God this exchange happened,” Maria Butina, a member of the Russian State Duma, told Russian Defense Ministry media outlet Zvezda. “I am happy. My heart sings. We don’t abandon our own people.”

Russian political analyst Tatiana Stanovaya, the founder of the R.Politik political analysis group, said in July that Putin wanted something deeper than political gain. “We have a special word in the Russian language for people like Bout: svoi. It means someone from ‘us.’ It’s someone who worked for the motherland, at least in eyes.”

Bout, who has said in interviews that he was born in Tajikistan in 1967 and studied languages at the Soviet Military Institute of Foreign Languages in Moscow. He has said he was pushed into studying Portuguese and later sent to Angola to work as a translator with the Soviet air force.

Military institutes were key recruitment grounds for the GRU, experts say. (The more refined KGB, meanwhile, stuck to universities.) And while Bout’s links to Sechin are unclear, both studied Portuguese and overlapped with the Soviet military in Mozambique.

Shortly after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Bout, like many others who saw opportunity to profit amid chaos, became an entrepreneur. He used a small fleet of Soviet-made Antonov An-8 planes to set up an airfreight business and was apparently willing to take risks that others wouldn’t, flying to war zones and failed states.

Bout is also believed to have had access to something more valuable than planes: knowledge of the fate of the Soviet Union’s enormous caches of weapons.

“He was moving out weapons for a decade, from places like Ukraine,” said Douglas Farah, president of the national security firm IBI Consultants and the co-author of a book on Bout.

By 2000, Bout was one of the world’s most notorious traffickers. He was dubbed “the leading merchant of death” in Britain’s Parliament, and was named in U.N. reports for supplying heavy weaponry to a rebel movement in Angola as well as Liberia’s Charles Taylor, then supporting a deadly civil war in neighboring Sierra Leone.

The extent to which Bout was working for Russian military interests is debated. Farah said he believed that given the scale of military equipment being moved, such work may have been tacitly approved by the GRU.

Wolosky said Bout came to the Clinton administration’s attention because he was disrupting peace processes that the president was backing across Africa.

“In some cases, he was arming both sides of the conflict,” Wolosky said.

Amid increasing international pressure, including an Interpol arrest warrant issued in 2002, Bout returned to Moscow.

By many accounts, Bout at that time stepped back from his most intense work in the arms trade. He lived in Golitsyno, a small town outside Moscow. A friend visiting his home in 2008 later noted that it was filled with books as well as, surprisingly, a DVD of the 2005 Nicolas Cage film “Lord of War,” which was reportedly inspired by Bout’s life.

Unfortunately for him, that guest — former South African intelligence agent Andrew Smulian — was working for the DEA.

Bout was arrested later in Thailand, where he had been secretly recorded by the DEA organizing the purchase of 100 surface-to-air missiles, 20,000 AK-47 rifles, 20,000 grenades, 740 mortars, 350 sniper rifles, five tons of C-4 explosives and 10 million rounds of ammunition for people he thought were agents for the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), an insurgent group.

The elaborate sting operation got around a key problem in the U.S. pursuit of Bout: He hadn’t broken any U.S. laws. In 2011, a federal court in New York found him guilty of a variety of charges, including conspiracy to kill U.S. nationals.

Russian officials have complained particularly about the aggressive and unusual targeting of Bout.

But the recording of Bout helped make the broader argument that he wasn’t a simple businessman. When the agents posing as buyers for the FARC said the weapons would be used against U.S. Air Force pilots working with the Colombian government, Bout could be heard telling them they had “the same enemy.”

“It’s not business,” he said. “It’s my fight.”

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Tue Dec-13-22 10:37 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "'they' are saying biden got griner out to beat the deal kanye was doing."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1602686392206872576

we live in the dumbest country/timeline.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79594 posts
Tue Dec-13-22 12:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
70. "I Ye.. yeahhhhh okay.. lol. "
In response to Reply # 69


          

is there even a letterhead on that sheet?

lmao

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28844 posts
Fri Dec-16-22 11:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
71. "GTFOHWTBS"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This trade was on the table months ago, allegedly. Jim Crow Joe, Crime Bill Biden saw those election results and employed the tried and true modern Democrat strategy of symbolic gestures.

While it's nice that she's home Democrats are still losing support with their base, the one they beg to bail them out every election without providing tangibles for.

Britney's home so everything's fine, right guys? Who we trading to get Whelan out? I doubt he gets the same support and social media campaigns. Glad she's home free once again.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18637 posts
Fri Dec-16-22 12:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
72. "Whelan"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

>This trade was on the table months ago, allegedly. Jim Crow
>Joe, Crime Bill Biden saw those election results and employed
>the tried and true modern Democrat strategy of symbolic
>gestures.
>
>While it's nice that she's home Democrats are still losing
>support with their base, the one they beg to bail them out
>every election without providing tangibles for.
>
>Britney's home so everything's fine, right guys? Who we
>trading to get Whelan out? I doubt he gets the same support
>and social media campaigns. Glad she's home free once again.

As I understand it:

1) he received a bad conduct discharge from the military but that hasn’t stopped the right wing from lying and presenting him as some war hero, and stupid people believe it.

2) Perhaps Russia knows what they’re doing and aren’t giving him up, and know they’re sowing further discontent in America by doing so?

Griner is home, as she should be. She was basically kidnapped.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49415 posts
Fri Dec-16-22 12:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
73. "It takes a lot of work to be mad at this. "
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

>This trade was on the table months ago, allegedly. Jim Crow
>Joe, Crime Bill Biden saw those election results and employed
>the tried and true modern Democrat strategy of symbolic
>gestures.


So Biden was doing this to get votes but waited until after the election to announce?!? I mean was this something in the works well before or an election stunt?


>
>While it's nice that she's home Democrats are still losing
>support with their base, the one they beg to bail them out
>every election without providing tangibles for.


The election was evidence that they losing support of their base? How?


>
>Britney's home so everything's fine, right guys? Who we
>trading to get Whelan out? I doubt he gets the same support
>and social media campaigns. Glad she's home free once again.


Man you know you had no idea who Whelan was the day before Griner got out so why all this fake false concern for Whelan? Like did you want the sister to come home or do you think they should have tried to get the spy first??


You all over the place.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
PROMO
Charter member
30966 posts
Fri Dec-16-22 12:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
74. "yeah, people GOTTA chill w/ this Whelan shit."
In response to Reply # 73
Fri Dec-16-22 12:44 PM by PROMO

  

          

like, he wasn't on the table. PERIOD. end of story.

so, the choice is: get Griner home (which she should be) or let both rot.

Viktor Bout was already near the end of his sentence. Griner at the beginning of hers. that's a good deal. a guy who's already served like 15 years and who will likely be out the game even upon his return, to spare Griner 9 more years of punishment for some b.s.

and as far as Whelan goes, while he and the U.S. deny it, Russia says he's a spy and he was definitely over there doing some shit that looks suspect. that being said i'm not saying he should be in prison. i'm just saying it looks fishy while Griner was toting some weed residue. not the same.

outside of terrorism, spying is the highest international crime. Russians AIN'T giving him. PERIOD.

unfortunately, when it comes to this kinda stuff, Russia, who is more cruel to their own citizens, has the upper hand in negotiations.

lastly, none of this means the U.S. still isn't trying to get Whelan home.

do you work for the CIA or the State Deparment? if not, shut up (not you Buddy) cuz you have no idea what the government is doing behind the scenes.

also, if freeing Americans is some political stunt for votes then so be it. i'd rather them be free than not. funny thing is, if it was a conservative president, they'd be getting all kinds of pats on the backs, even from Dems. but Repugs gonna always find a way to hate.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
handle
Charter member
18951 posts
Fri Dec-16-22 12:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
75. "Wheelan was on the table - when Trump was president"
In response to Reply # 74


          

https://thehill.com/policy/international/3774311-ex-national-security-adviser-says-russians-were-willing-to-free-paul-whelan-under-trump/

....

Republicans heavily criticized Biden for not securing Whelan’s release, but Trump said on Sunday he turned down a deal while in the White House to release Whelan for Bout, widely known as “The Merchant of Death,” saying he wouldn’t have freed Bout for “a hundred people.”

Elizabeth Whelan told The Hill that Trump’s statement “was a surprise and not a welcome one” and that the Whelan family was unable to have meaningful contact with Trump’s National Security Council after O’Brien’s predecessor, John Bolton, left his position.

O’Brien said that he felt he secured a commitment from Russian National Security Adviser Nikolai Patrushev to release Whelan and Reed, a former U.S. Marine arrested in Russia about a half-year after Whelan, in exchange for scheduling summits between Washington and Moscow that the Kremlin sought.

Patrushev had met with O’Brien in early October 2020 in Geneva, but O’Brien said there was no discussion of a prisoner swap or the release of Bout.

“Without getting into the details, there were further summit meetings the Russians wanted to have that would have required improvement in relations,” O’Brien said. “And my position was, if you want to improve relations with us, you cannot keep Whelan and Reed.”

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
PROMO
Charter member
30966 posts
Fri Dec-16-22 01:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
77. "oh jesus."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28844 posts
Fri Dec-16-22 01:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
76. "RE: It takes a lot of work to be mad at this. "
In response to Reply # 73
Fri Dec-16-22 01:00 PM by Kira

  

          

>>This trade was on the table months ago, allegedly. Jim Crow
>>Joe, Crime Bill Biden saw those election results and
>employed
>>the tried and true modern Democrat strategy of symbolic
>>gestures.
>
>
>So Biden was doing this to get votes but waited until after
>the election to announce?!? I mean was this something in the
>works well before or an election stunt?

He made a stronger effort to get her out after Stacey Abrams lost and they realized how much support they lost amongst their base. They had to do something to to garner support from their base. Hint: their base is not the LGBT community moving on...
>
>
>>
>>While it's nice that she's home Democrats are still losing
>>support with their base, the one they beg to bail them out
>>every election without providing tangibles for.
>
>
>The election was evidence that they losing support of their
>base? How?

Stacey Abrams lost while begging for the black vote without any promises of specific tangibles for the black community. Democrat operatives like Tiffany Cross bashing black men hurt Stacey. If you think that statement is bs go pull up Stacey's numbers amongst black men and women...

Warnock needing a runoff election to defeat Herschel Walker is further proof they're in trouble. The Congressional Black Talkers cannot stop the inevitable. Democrat support amongst the black community is dwindling and they know it. Misinformation is not the issue.
>
>
>>
>>Britney's home so everything's fine, right guys? Who we
>>trading to get Whelan out? I doubt he gets the same support
>>and social media campaigns. Glad she's home free once again.
>
>
>Man you know you had no idea who Whelan was the day before
>Griner got out so why all this fake false concern for Whelan?
>Like did you want the sister to come home or do you think they
>should have tried to get the spy first??
>
>
>You all over the place.

Whelan is a US Marine that deserves respect. Of course I knew who he was. Obviously Britney Griner should've come home.... At the same time as Whelan. Find another spy and exchange two for two. Whelan is not getting the same campaign Britney got for obvious reasons I won't get into. Optics on leaving a US Marine behind for Britney Griner are crazy. Won't even talk about the specifics of her case after you dismissed Mr. Whelan as a spy but good on her for being home.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
5187 posts
Fri Dec-16-22 02:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
78. "What ? Your takes are horrible"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

>>>This trade was on the table months ago, allegedly. Jim
>Crow
>>>Joe, Crime Bill Biden saw those election results and
>>employed
>>>the tried and true modern Democrat strategy of symbolic
>>>gestures.
>>
>>
>>So Biden was doing this to get votes but waited until after
>>the election to announce?!? I mean was this something in the
>>works well before or an election stunt?
>
>He made a stronger effort to get her out after Stacey Abrams
>lost and they realized how much support they lost amongst
>their base. They had to do something to to garner support from
>their base. Hint: their base is not the LGBT community moving
>on...
>>

Dem's are going to get more support from the Black community a year later because they got Griner out ? The same people who are not voting for a Black woman as governor, will vote for Dem's based on prisoner release symbolism ?

>>>
>>>While it's nice that she's home Democrats are still losing
>>>support with their base, the one they beg to bail them out
>>>every election without providing tangibles for.
>>
>>
>>The election was evidence that they losing support of their
>>base? How?
>
>Stacey Abrams lost while begging for the black vote without
>any promises of specific tangibles for the black community.
>Democrat operatives like Tiffany Cross bashing black men hurt
>Stacey. If you think that statement is bs go pull up Stacey's
>numbers amongst black men and women...
>

Most of the Dems in the state lost with the exception of Warnock.

>Warnock needing a runoff election to defeat Herschel Walker is
>further proof they're in trouble. The Congressional Black
>Talkers cannot stop the inevitable. Democrat support amongst
>the black community is dwindling and they know it.
>Misinformation is not the issue.
>>
>>

Nah, it's proof GA is racist.

>>>Britney's home so everything's fine, right guys? Who we
>>>trading to get Whelan out? I doubt he gets the same support
>>>and social media campaigns. Glad she's home free once
>again.
>>
>>Man you know you had no idea who Whelan was the day before
>>Griner got out so why all this fake false concern for
>Whelan?
>>Like did you want the sister to come home or do you think
>they
>>should have tried to get the spy first??
>>
>>
>>You all over the place.
>
>Whelan is a US Marine that deserves respect. Of course I knew
>who he was. Obviously Britney Griner should've come home....
>At the same time as Whelan. Find another spy and exchange two
>for two. Whelan is not getting the same campaign Britney got
>for obvious reasons I won't get into. Optics on leaving a US
>Marine behind for Britney Griner are crazy. Won't even talk
>about the specifics of her case after you dismissed Mr. Whelan
>as a spy but good on her for being home.
>

Where were you when Trevor Reed got out and Griner and Whelan had to stay ?

---------------------------
Signature

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
PROMO
Charter member
30966 posts
Fri Dec-16-22 02:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
79. "LOL, right?"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

terrible terrible takes.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79594 posts
Fri Dec-16-22 03:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "Are you still a Mormon? "
In response to Reply # 76


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Fri Dec-16-22 03:57 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
81. "you never disappoint lol."
In response to Reply # 71


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby General Discussion topic #13474402 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com