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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
14097 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 10:31 AM

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"R&B Music is dead: from me to Diddy to MJB to whatever else"
Tue Aug-23-22 10:36 AM by c71

  

          

I famously asserted the only reason people claim "Break my soul" is just a great hit ("Song of the summer" over "about damn time"?) is because folks are just tired of R&B being dead (the post I made that claim was deleted)

People are so tired of R&B radio playing trap-like sounds people happy for something not dead like trap-r&b, trap hip-hop.

Folks just ain't getting no life anymore from trap-R&B, trap hip-hop.

And...it seems that the Black community has no center so we can't tell what the people really like other than trap R&B or trap hip-hop.

It seems radio (like Mary J Blige said) has died so...the Black community has no "center" (Radio was "galvanizing" to the Black Community for as long as I was alive) to say what we really like...except the fumes of trap R&B and trap hip-hop.

https://www.okayplayer.com/music/diddy-responds-to-backlash-on-his-rb-is-dead-comments.html

Diddy Responds To Backlash On His “R&B Is Dead” Comments
MUSIC

JAELANI TURNER-WILLIAMS

Jaelani Turner-Williams is a contributing news writer for Okayplayer
with bylines at Billboard, MTV News, NYLON, Recording Academy and more. Read her mind on Twitter at @hernameisjae.

After proclaiming that ‘R&B is dead’, Diddy responded to backlash of his statement, saying that he wanted to “bring attention” to the genre.

Diddy is facing the music after claiming that “R&B is dead.” During an Instagram Live session with Timbaland last week, the Bad Boy Records and Love Records founder claimed that the genre was becoming endangered.

“The R&B I made my babies to? R&B gotta be judged to a certain thing — it’s the feeling though, doggy. No, no, no. It’s a feeling,” Diddy said during the livestream. “You gotta be able to sing for R&B and then you gotta tell the truth. R&B is not a hustle. This shit is about feeling your vulnerability.”

Diddy continued, “You gotta muthafuckas make a nigga dick hard or a woman’s vagina wet. You gotta cry. You gotta be able to get your girl back. I don’t wanna hear all this bitchass It’s our fault for accepting anything less for anybody getting on a mic. I feel like there was a death of R&B singing, and I’m a part of bringing that shit back! I ain’t feelin’ no emotions.”


On Saturday (August 20), he went to Twitter to clarify his statements.

This conversation was out of love and me purposely wanting to bring attention to R&B! It was something that I saw the effect of the Hip hop and R&B balance. That balance is honesty and realness when it comes together, melodies, vulnerability and most importantly LOVE!!!
1:04 PM · Aug 20, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

This message is that R&B game needs more love, vulnerability, support!!

Also joining an Instagram Live session with the Bad Boy Records founder was Mary J. Blige who shared that R&B gets dubbed as “popular music” when white vocalists like Adele and Justin Bieber “get a hold of it.”


Contemporary R&B singers like Arin Ray and Brent Faiyaz jumped into the ‘R&B’ is dead conversation on Twitter with their own takes.

Arin Ray

these old heads need to stop and just admit that THEY ain’t got it no more.

you’re washed. not r&b.
@Diddy


Diddy’s clarification comes days after announcing that he’d be joining Jermaine Dupri for a hit-for-hit music battle in Atlanta. In the style of Verzuz, the battle will not be a Verzuz exclusive amid Swizz Beatz’s and Timbaland’s $28 million lawsuit against Triller.


https://www.bet.com/article/jc3l5k/mary-j-blige-r-n-b-diddy-instagram-live-justin-timberlake-adele

MUSIC

Mary J. Blige On R&B Becoming "Popular" When Adele Puts Out A Song From The Genre

The R&B icon responded to the “Who killed R&B?” question that Diddy posed on social media.

By Alexis Reese


August 18, 2022/12:11 PM


Mary J. Blige let her opinion known about the state of R&B after sitting down with DIddy in a candid conversation on the history behind the genre and how when new tracks are released, it is labeled as "popular."

"Who killed R&B?" Diddy posted on his social media accounts before heading to his Instagram Live with Mary J. to have a chat.

“You can't kill something that's in our DNA,” said Blige. “It's gonna keep transitioning from generation to generation to generation to generation. They was trying to kill it.”

She continued, “Before I say what I'm gonna say, let me just say this: I wanna thank all the radio stations around the country that are playing R&B music and sincerely support it.”


"But, you know, a lot of the radio stations killed it for the same thing that Tank was saying. They ain't gon' jump on the bandwagon of whatever the hottest things is—but, let me just say this. We have to keep ourselves alive as R&B singers," she added, referring to words expressed by Tank when he appeared on the Drink Champs podcast.

Blige then gave out virtual flowers to some of the greats in the R&B genre Chaka Khan, Etta James, Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Jazmine Sullivan, and SWV, before reiterating that these artists and their contributions to R&B can't be "killed."

"They wanna call it 'Popular Music' with Adele and Justin Timberlake get ahold to it, so now it's 'Popular Music.' But it's been popular music! We've been had it!"

-------------=

So....

Are those of us in the Diddy, MJB generation we just can't see that even though it seems that the Black community group/collective/"thrust" "faded" when radio just ran trap R&B/trap hip-hop INTO THE GROUND....the Black community DID SOMEHOW re-emerge (through Tik-tok, IG, Twitter, etc.) into something else Diddy, MJB and the rest of us Gen-X people JUST CAN'T SEE?

Discuss

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Sound old AF talking about radio
Aug 23rd 2022
1
You stepped into my OBVIOUS trap *sinister laugh*
Aug 23rd 2022
2
      It's a feeling (c) Diddy
Aug 23rd 2022
7
           There's way more than a handful of pop artists getting ATTENTION
Aug 23rd 2022
8
                Now you're just being ignorant
Aug 23rd 2022
9
                     Pop isn't dead
Aug 23rd 2022
10
                          How much less attention are they getting than pop acts in the past?
Aug 23rd 2022
11
RE: R&B Music is dead: from me to Diddy to MJB to whatever else
Aug 23rd 2022
3
i mean, LOVE and POSITIVITY in R&B is dead.
Aug 23rd 2022
4
RE: i mean, LOVE and POSITIVITY in R&B is dead.
Aug 23rd 2022
5
      Again, obvious trap - *AHEM*
Aug 23rd 2022
6
           RE: Again, obvious trap - *AHEM*
Aug 24th 2022
18
The melding of Hip-Hop and R&B killed both.
Aug 24th 2022
12
I think the big difference between Hip-Hop and R&B is that R&B audiences
Aug 24th 2022
13
RE: I think the big difference between Hip-Hop and R&B is that R&B audie...
Aug 24th 2022
21
      You right
Aug 25th 2022
29
Usher going at us Gen-X-tied-to-the-radio people - vibe
Aug 24th 2022
14
Usher is an F'ing National Treasure.
Aug 24th 2022
22
'r&b aint dead. yall niggas just ugly' (c)
Aug 24th 2022
15
RE: R&B Music is dead: from me to Diddy to MJB to whatever else
Aug 24th 2022
16
that PJ Morton though
Aug 24th 2022
17
absurd. i could list 20 artists that have released albums
Aug 24th 2022
19
I gotta confess...I don't quite understand what Puff is trying to say
Aug 24th 2022
20
Puff and Tank and MJB are saying there seems to be no...
Aug 24th 2022
23
RE: Puff and Tank and MJB are saying there seems to be no...
Aug 24th 2022
26
We sort of did do it to us because radio got arrogant and didn't...
Aug 24th 2022
27
      They STAYED arrogant
Aug 24th 2022
28
      The trap shit dominates because it's cheaper and easier
Aug 25th 2022
31
RE: Puff and Tank and MJB are saying there seems to be no...
Aug 25th 2022
39
RE: I gotta confess...I don't quite understand what Puff is trying to sa...
Aug 24th 2022
24
      If we're used to radio setting the mark - IG and streaming "surrounds"?
Aug 24th 2022
25
Man I was super-excited when I first heard an all hip-hop radio station
Aug 25th 2022
30
What's maddening about NYC is there's only one station
Aug 25th 2022
32
      part of it is lot of people don't listen to radio anymore more everyone....
Aug 25th 2022
34
           Yeah but look who does still listen to radio?
Aug 25th 2022
35
                true...I think its a conflict of interests because the marketing and...
Aug 25th 2022
36
Not dead, just different, and needs to step away from Hip-hop
Aug 25th 2022
33
RE: Not dead, just different, and needs to step away from Hip-hop
Aug 25th 2022
41
It's amusing to watch kids get in their feels when the elders critique.....
Aug 25th 2022
37
More amusing: watching the same kids turn 35-40
Aug 25th 2022
38
Don't this nigga own a TV network?
Aug 25th 2022
40
if R&B is dead, Diddy was the architect
Sep 09th 2022
42
Mainstream people have no loyalty. They'll change-up what they "love" .....
Sep 09th 2022
43
RE: Mainstream people have no loyalty. They'll change-up what they "love...
Sep 09th 2022
44
      Crumb
Sep 09th 2022
45
      Crumb is really dope
Sep 14th 2022
51
That’s because today’s artist can’t SANG.
Sep 10th 2022
46
talent has little to do with this.
Sep 10th 2022
47
how do you feel about the Silk Sonic album?
Sep 10th 2022
48
damn, I was almost with you until you said Frank Ocean
Sep 10th 2022
49
      Right? Lol
Sep 12th 2022
50

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 05:07 PM

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1. "Sound old AF talking about radio "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Aug-23-22 05:07 PM by bentagain

  

          

I can’t even remember the last time I turned on an actual radio station to listen to music
There’s some solid r&b out IMO
Lucky Daye
Lianne La Havas
Cleo Sol/Sault
Alex Isley
Jaz…
But it damn sure ain’t on the radio.
MFers turned in to their parents and aren’t self aware enough to recognize
They said the same thing about Jodeci, Mary J, etc…back in the day
SMH
It’s not YOUR time anymore =/= r&b is dead
It moved past you.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
14097 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 05:30 PM

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2. "You stepped into my OBVIOUS trap *sinister laugh*"
In response to Reply # 1
Tue Aug-23-22 05:40 PM by c71

  

          

Ahem *too easy*

Lucky Daye

Cleo Sol

Lianne La Havas

*Ahem twice*

Do...they...have..anywhere..NEAR..the public....attention...that...

Mary J

Jodeci

Bobby

...did in the 1990's?

..and...if...not...?


...just how much...less..?


So...(if a LOT less)...then..

How...is...it...not...dead?

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 07:12 PM

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7. "It's a feeling (c) Diddy "
In response to Reply # 2
Tue Aug-23-22 07:13 PM by bentagain

  

          

I feel the emotion in the art I listed
You're 'attention' argument is directed at the entire industry
There's maybe a handful of music acts that garner back in the day attention
That's not endemic to r&b.

You could say the same about Jazz
You could say the same about Rock and roll

$hit done changed.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
14097 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 07:17 PM

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8. "There's way more than a handful of pop artists getting ATTENTION"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

yep

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 07:50 PM

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9. "Now you're just being ignorant "
In response to Reply # 8
Tue Aug-23-22 07:51 PM by bentagain

  

          

You know good and well record sales peaked in the early 2000s
Profits dried up through the first decade of the millennium
The industry is just now figuring out how to monetize streaming
Because of the decline in sales
Budgets dried up as well
Labels aren't investing in development and promotion at the same rate
That's the main reason why you don't have super duper recording stars at the same rate/level as back in the day... but you knew that

and you're deflecting from my point...
It's the whole industry
It's not endemic to R&B.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
14097 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 08:13 PM

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10. "Pop isn't dead"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Nope

  

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spirit
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21451 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 08:28 PM

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11. "How much less attention are they getting than pop acts in the past?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Using your argument above, pop music is dead because only Taylor Swift has sales numbers equivalent to pop acts of yesteryear.

I guess throw BTS in there too lol

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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jimaveli
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6634 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 06:06 PM

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3. "RE: R&B Music is dead: from me to Diddy to MJB to whatever else"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

There's a lot of directions this can go, right?

- Old folks just hatin.
- These new kids suck and just don't wanna know about how to make 'good music'.
- The old folks didn't guide the kids so here we are.
- We didn't appreciate the king shit artists we got handed to us in the 90s so fight wolks did what they do and now here we are.
- Wait up Puff! Didn't YOU help help weld hiphop and R&B together? And then it REALLY got melted into one another when rappers got tired of paying for hooks and said 'fuck it, I'll do my own hook, son!'? And singers said 'oh really!? Well, I'll do my own rapped verse too' and its kinda been screwed up ever since once rap took over and singers had to decide how they were going to survive?

- Radio!? Who is still waiting for the radio to tell them who to listen to!?

Maybe the 'radio!?' angle is the most useful one to take? Maybe?

Because there IS something to say for radio not being the center/base anymore for basically anyone. Your search and listening history are in charge now.

If we go back to even to like 1997, radio formats were OBVIOUSLY super repetitive and limited to certain acts and 'categories' of music even within the hiphop and R&B spaces. And they were OBVIOUSLY 'missing stuff'. And nonchalantly so. And those mfers didn't listen when people tried to tell them.

But oops..technology intervened and made it a lot easier for people to go their own way. Napster. Computers. CD burners. Around this time, I was well on MY way to abandoning radio altogether. Personally, I was already drifting away when I started having enough money to buy tapes and CDs of my own instead of just rolling with what my parents had.

Then, artists (even some of the popular ones) were OPENLY hating on the concept of how the radio setup worked. Saying it on songs, in interviews, and all of that. JayZ. Outkast. Little Brother. The retro/soul folks. Just saying out loud 'hey, you radio people are full of shit. You're not playing the best stuff, you're not TRYING to play the best stuff. And we're trying to figure out how to go around you so that people can get these jams'. Then that magic carpet kept growing until where it is now, right?

Once we got to streaming music and faster cell phone connections shiiiiiiiiiiid..who tf needs the radio? Artists don't need it to get by. Labels can go around the radio and don't have to play the game the same way. Big artists with large fanbases can skip major chunks of the 'putting out a record' process altogether. Even smaller artists who have THEIR fans can make money off of shows, gear, vinyl and all of that.

Now? The average person is ALMOST their own DJ all day long every day. There ARE the algos. But still, if an algorithm doesn't lay something at your feet at the right time AND you're not one for exploration, you might never hear anything other than the stuff you always hear.

I don't dare claim to have all of the answers. For my music: I come here. I ask my old azz friends. I try to hit play on random stuff every now and then. EVERY NOW AND THEN, I'll let Youtube music run wild and play random songs after its done with one of my playlists. I flip to BET Jams and whatever the more subdued version of that channel is. If I here Migos-style rapping, I turn the fuck out of the channel. Otherwise, I'll listen. My wife listens to top whatever pop radio so I get that stuff when I'm riding with her until I hear the same song 2x in a 30 minute span and request NPR or some device.

And the whole 'trap' thing? And the Weeknd/Drake/brooding and moody stuff? Yeah, I hear how that could be a problem. But I wish someone would try to talk me into not liking this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH3rfRSgKe4

Shiiiiiiiiiiid, I'm old but I know 'energy' when I hear it. And he FUCKING MEANT EVERY WORD OF THAT SHIT. It ain't his fault that a bunch of people are trying to replicate it with far lesser results and more fraudulent energy behind it.

>I famously asserted the only reason people claim "Break my
>soul" is just a great hit ("Song of the summer" over "about
>damn time"?) is because folks are just tired of R&B being dead
>(the post I made that claim was deleted)
>
>People are so tired of R&B radio playing trap-like sounds
>people happy for something not dead like trap-r&b, trap
>hip-hop.
>
>Folks just ain't getting no life anymore from trap-R&B, trap
>hip-hop.
>
>And...it seems that the Black community has no center so we
>can't tell what the people really like other than trap R&B or
>trap hip-hop.
>
>It seems radio (like Mary J Blige said) has died so...the
>Black community has no "center" (Radio was "galvanizing" to
>the Black Community for as long as I was alive) to say what we
>really like...except the fumes of trap R&B and trap hip-hop.
>
>https://www.okayplayer.com/music/diddy-responds-to-backlash-on-his-rb-is-dead-comments.html
>
>Diddy Responds To Backlash On His “R&B Is Dead” Comments
>MUSIC
>
>JAELANI TURNER-WILLIAMS
>
>Jaelani Turner-Williams is a contributing news writer for
>Okayplayer
>with bylines at Billboard, MTV News, NYLON, Recording Academy
>and more. Read her mind on Twitter at @hernameisjae.
>
>After proclaiming that ‘R&B is dead’, Diddy responded to
>backlash of his statement, saying that he wanted to “bring
>attention” to the genre.
>
>Diddy is facing the music after claiming that “R&B is
>dead.” During an Instagram Live session with Timbaland last
>week, the Bad Boy Records and Love Records founder claimed
>that the genre was becoming endangered.
>
>“The R&B I made my babies to? R&B gotta be judged to a
>certain thing — it’s the feeling though, doggy. No, no,
>no. It’s a feeling,” Diddy said during the livestream.
>“You gotta be able to sing for R&B and then you gotta tell
>the truth. R&B is not a hustle. This shit is about feeling
>your vulnerability.”
>
>Diddy continued, “You gotta muthafuckas make a nigga dick
>hard or a woman’s vagina wet. You gotta cry. You gotta be
>able to get your girl back. I don’t wanna hear all this
>bitchass It’s our fault for accepting anything less
>for anybody getting on a mic. I feel like there was a death of
>R&B singing, and I’m a part of bringing that shit back! I
>ain’t feelin’ no emotions.”
>
>
>On Saturday (August 20), he went to Twitter to clarify his
>statements.
>
>This conversation was out of love and me purposely wanting to
>bring attention to R&B! It was something that I saw the effect
>of the Hip hop and R&B balance. That balance is honesty and
>realness when it comes together, melodies, vulnerability and
>most importantly LOVE!!!
>1:04 PM · Aug 20, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
>
>This message is that R&B game needs more love, vulnerability,
>support!!
>
>Also joining an Instagram Live session with the Bad Boy
>Records founder was Mary J. Blige who shared that R&B gets
>dubbed as “popular music” when white vocalists like Adele
>and Justin Bieber “get a hold of it.”
>
>
>Contemporary R&B singers like Arin Ray and Brent Faiyaz jumped
>into the ‘R&B’ is dead conversation on Twitter with their
>own takes.
>
>Arin Ray
>
>these old heads need to stop and just admit that THEY ain’t
>got it no more.
>
>you’re washed. not r&b.
>@Diddy
>
>
>Diddy’s clarification comes days after announcing that
>he’d be joining Jermaine Dupri for a hit-for-hit music
>battle in Atlanta. In the style of Verzuz, the battle will not
>be a Verzuz exclusive amid Swizz Beatz’s and Timbaland’s
>$28 million lawsuit against Triller.
>
>
>https://www.bet.com/article/jc3l5k/mary-j-blige-r-n-b-diddy-instagram-live-justin-timberlake-adele
>
>MUSIC
>
>Mary J. Blige On R&B Becoming "Popular" When Adele Puts Out A
>Song From The Genre
>
>The R&B icon responded to the “Who killed R&B?” question
>that Diddy posed on social media.
>
>By Alexis Reese
>
>
>August 18, 2022/12:11 PM
>
>
>Mary J. Blige let her opinion known about the state of R&B
>after sitting down with DIddy in a candid conversation on the
>history behind the genre and how when new tracks are released,
>it is labeled as "popular."
>
>"Who killed R&B?" Diddy posted on his social media accounts
>before heading to his Instagram Live with Mary J. to have a
>chat.
>
>“You can't kill something that's in our DNA,” said Blige.
>“It's gonna keep transitioning from generation to generation
>to generation to generation. They was trying to kill it.”
>
>She continued, “Before I say what I'm gonna say, let me just
>say this: I wanna thank all the radio stations around the
>country that are playing R&B music and sincerely support
>it.”
>
>
>"But, you know, a lot of the radio stations killed it for the
>same thing that Tank was saying. They ain't gon' jump on the
>bandwagon of whatever the hottest things is—but, let me just
>say this. We have to keep ourselves alive as R&B singers," she
>added, referring to words expressed by Tank when he appeared
>on the Drink Champs podcast.
>
>Blige then gave out virtual flowers to some of the greats in
>the R&B genre Chaka Khan, Etta James, Sam Cooke, Aretha
>Franklin, Jazmine Sullivan, and SWV, before reiterating that
>these artists and their contributions to R&B can't be
>"killed."
>
>"They wanna call it 'Popular Music' with Adele and Justin
>Timberlake get ahold to it, so now it's 'Popular Music.' But
>it's been popular music! We've been had it!"
>
>-------------=
>
>So....
>
>Are those of us in the Diddy, MJB generation we just can't see
>that even though it seems that the Black community
>group/collective/"thrust" "faded" when radio just ran trap
>R&B/trap hip-hop INTO THE GROUND....the Black community DID
>SOMEHOW re-emerge (through Tik-tok, IG, Twitter, etc.) into
>something else Diddy, MJB and the rest of us Gen-X people JUST
>CAN'T SEE?
>
>Discuss
>

  

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PROMO
Charter member
31201 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 06:07 PM

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4. "i mean, LOVE and POSITIVITY in R&B is dead."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people can argue the semantics of if the genre is dead.

but i think what diddy, tank, etc. mean when they say "r&b is dead" is where is the love and also, where's the commercial success.

there's still good r&b music, but it's not easily accessible for the most part, aka not successful in the traditional sense.

as far what gets put in a song? these days, it's a lot of toxic sex and relationship shit. or, even worse, it's the same shit the rappers are rapping about.

i mean, it all comes down to money. the powers that be in music are gonna push what's popular. rap took over music, and someone(s) decided that the more like the rappers the singers were, the better for the bottom line.

here we are.

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
6634 posts
Tue Aug-23-22 06:22 PM

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5. "RE: i mean, LOVE and POSITIVITY in R&B is dead."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>people can argue the semantics of if the genre is dead.
>
>but i think what diddy, tank, etc. mean when they say "r&b is
>dead" is where is the love and also, where's the commercial
>success.
>
>there's still good r&b music, but it's not easily accessible
>for the most part, aka not successful in the traditional
>sense.
>
>as far what gets put in a song? these days, it's a lot of
>toxic sex and relationship shit. or, even worse, it's the same
>shit the rappers are rapping about.
>
>i mean, it all comes down to money. the powers that be in
>music are gonna push what's popular. rap took over music, and
>someone(s) decided that the more like the rappers the singers
>were, the better for the bottom line.
>
>here we are.

So, did we/they basically 'Mary J' a whole genre of music? AKA if its not bad/sad shit, it isn't gonna get supported/heavily listened to?

But isn't that kinda how the innanet is in lots of spots too? I mean, if Twitter had to get renamed, couldn't it called 'Well Actually'.

Now hey, I'm pulling for Lizzo's happy shit and Beyonce's happy happy dance dance album because if things take a turn towards positivity, then maybe we can't say 'love is dead' 5 years from now?

OR

Maybe another angle: you don't have to be popular to do reasonably well as an artist now so there's people making their dough on the low and damn near avoiding being famous/stars? And shit, the downward pull on anyone who 'gets too big' is still alive and well and more and more of these artists are not interested in it? They've all seen too many documentaries and movies about how our stars got helped into the ground?

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Tue Aug-23-22 06:47 PM

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6. "Again, obvious trap - *AHEM*"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

You can say it's good that Lucky Daye probably won't crash and burn like Pac (but...will Bruno's friend Pak get up there like Bruno? Hmmm...)

But...(like being centered around the radio)


Humans (in Western culture) are still oriented in artists becoming POPULAR to endure as legends, etc.

So...

Is just "not crashing like Pac and Cobain" and living a decent life a substitute for becoming a legend/enduring in popular memory?

Pop stars like Bieber and Bruno will become legends.

Is R&B ready to give that status possibility up?

  

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jimaveli
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Wed Aug-24-22 12:44 PM

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18. "RE: Again, obvious trap - *AHEM*"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Maybe it is YOU who has been trapped. *evil laugh*

To answer your questions about Paak, I went into Silk Sonic thinking 'if more people learn about Anderson through this, the whole project is a success'. And that has pretty much already happened, right? They won awards, sold records, and are doing a Vegas thing that is both expensive and well-loved by anyone who has seen it.

As for how we got to the point where some artists R&B and otherwise might for real be trying to 'make their music, get their little money and move on without getting famous' vs trying to be Taylor Swift/Madonna/Mariah/Maroon 5/Bruno Mars...

I argue in IRL all the time that people are far too okay with throwing away 'history'/old stuff to make room for 'the new stuff'. And companies milk that cow all the time to make money off of people. It's like almost EVERYTHING has a 'butterfly, uh uh, that's old! Let me see ya TOOTSIE ROLL!' element to it. Video games. TVs. Phones. Cars. Internet speeds. And, at least to me, black music.

It is easier to sell Jagged Edge to someone who hasn't heard all of the Isley Brothers stuff. You can throw out some Ashanti for a while and get by with a group of people who haven't heard no Chaka Kahn. Hell, you can more easily talk people into thinking a dope as hell artist like Badu was something never seen before if they don't know about Chaka.

MJ and Prince basically got thrown away. People lie about it now because they died. But really, MJ's MUSIC was getting karaoke'd by major artists all over the place but he was fading away before he died. And if you brought him up, you could barely talk about the music.

And if that Chappelle skit doesn't happen AND MJ doesn't die, I'm not sure if Prince ever has a 'get his flowers' period of his career either. Obviously, the 80s revival had mountains of Prince karaoke too.

Can you imagine making Purple Rain and then having people roll up on you like you aren't cool anymore like barely 10 years later?

What if you made fucking Thriller after having a whole ass career with your brothers, and mfers are like 'yeah, we're gonna steal all of your shit but we don't want YOU all that much anymore'? THAT IS CRAZY!

Add in that 'these folks now ain't got nuttin on the old school' was a cologne that sprayed liberally over everything for a really long time. Hell, Steve Harvey was going on and on about it AT AWARD SHOWS! He wasn't always wrong but he was heavy-handed about it and, at its worst, it is a REALLY bad thing to do if you're trying to actually 'fix the future' via making the next generation love older shit while they're being programmed to make way for new things all the time.

And at some point, that shit is going to make a group of people think 'well shit, if I can't please these people anyway, WHAT IS THE DAMN POINT!? Let me go over here and do my own thing!'. And I think that's at least part of what we see now.

Honestly, I think we're lucky to have the 'classically good' artists we still have and we barely 'deserve' them with how we basically allowed LEGENDS to be tossed aside. And hell, with the 80s and 90s folks, we complained a lot of those folks out of the way too! Whitney wasn't hood enough, Prince and MJ were 'crazy', Andre 3000 was 'weird', JayZ was too pop once he started having hits, Beyonce wasn't good enough at making 'ugly' music, etcetera.

And I think that's how we ended up with this parade of niche artists who do what they do and that's about it. They sell their merch, put out music when and however they want, and they trust their following to...ummm...follow them. And some of the apparently do okay overall. AKA they're not trying to make Thriller. They're trying to make Love For Sale. Or Loveland. Or Deeper than Rap. Or Pilot Talk. You know...something that falls into 'if you know, you know'.

  

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Teknontheou
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Wed Aug-24-22 07:33 AM

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12. "The melding of Hip-Hop and R&B killed both."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's not that there's not a single halfway decent artist now. There's a few. But it's just a few.

The negative effect of that mixture of the two genres is that alot of the knowledge how to make good R&B songs has gotten lost.

Pre-Hip-Hop Soul, R&B used to have sections (verse-chorus, AB, AAB, ABA, ABCBA, etc.) and was usually dynamic. This stuff today is mostly structured like Hip-Hop, usually with 2-bar loops, like a rap song. It's basically impossible to have alot of interesting harmonic ideas when you're using a two bar loop. The music also has no dynamics. And it's almost never danceable, which all R&B used to be, even the ballads.

I don't see this turning around any time soon either - the kids today seem to really like the stuff that's out now.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Aug-24-22 08:47 AM

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13. "I think the big difference between Hip-Hop and R&B is that R&B audiences"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

were primarily Black for the most part.

Someone else shared the idea (pfire?) here that has stuck with me that Prince and MJJ changed R&B because they made it Pop music with primarily white audiences. SO that became the goal for R&B Music. Lionel Richie chased it, Whitney Chased it.

IT's like the difference between New Edition and Boys II Men. Boys II Men reached heights that New Edition never reached but its New Edition that we talk about and still listen to today because they made R&B music for Black People.

In Manhattan there are very few Black Restaurants (outside of Harlem) like there were back in the day because now the Black people just go to the same restaurants like everyone else. So there is no Shark Bar, Justins, etc. I feel like the same thing has happened to R&B.

I was lightweight tight when Beyonce remade before I let go because I was like "Nooo, don't give them Frankie Beverly!" He's the one they still haven't "discovered" yet!

Anyway, rambling here. THere is a more cohesive idea somewhere here if I think about it more and give it more time.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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jimaveli
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Wed Aug-24-22 12:55 PM

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21. "RE: I think the big difference between Hip-Hop and R&B is that R&B audie..."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

You're not wrong, but I struggle with this. I hate when some black people act like some shit can't be 'for them' because 'other people' might like it too. Or even if the person making the art was trying to bring everyone in for whatever reason (the label, their own aspirations, whatever).

Like how did we decide that MJ and Prince 'weren't black enough' at some point just cuz they weren't making all of the same shit that Freddie Jackson or Alexander Oneal would?

And I'm not totally sure that this didn't help screw up the music even more. Because it narrowed things down too much in my opinion. And then it allowed people to try to over-categorize everything to the point where you had people saying shit like 'reel hiphop' and 'rap music' are dramatically different. And some of those same folks were saying shit like JayZ wasn't a hiphop artist cuz he was selling too much and he was making 'hit singles'. This is adorable now of course because going back and listening makes it obvious that Jayz was bringing houses down on a reg and his albums had all sorts of 'reel emcees are totally hearing this shit and wishing they could've done something like it' songs on them.

And also, PEOPLE LIE ABOUT THIS ALL THE TIME. If you make something that's too tied to 'just black people', you're Keke Wyatt or some shit now. Anthony Hamilton. And then, some black people will limit you to the BBQ or the shit they play when their cool uncles come to the house to play spades or fix their dishwasher. THAT IS THAT BULLSHIT RIGHT THERE, ISN'T IT!? I'm not saying I want Anthony Hamilton getting fucked with about his tweets, but he shouldn't be relegated to 'Uncle Marquis is coming by to help me put in these ceiling fans' either, should he?

>were primarily Black for the most part.
>
>Someone else shared the idea (pfire?) here that has stuck with
>me that Prince and MJJ changed R&B because they made it Pop
>music with primarily white audiences. SO that became the goal
>for R&B Music. Lionel Richie chased it, Whitney Chased it.
>
>IT's like the difference between New Edition and Boys II Men.
>Boys II Men reached heights that New Edition never reached but
>its New Edition that we talk about and still listen to today
>because they made R&B music for Black People.
>
>In Manhattan there are very few Black Restaurants (outside of
>Harlem) like there were back in the day because now the Black
>people just go to the same restaurants like everyone else. So
>there is no Shark Bar, Justins, etc. I feel like the same
>thing has happened to R&B.
>
>I was lightweight tight when Beyonce remade before I let go
>because I was like "Nooo, don't give them Frankie Beverly!"
>He's the one they still haven't "discovered" yet!
>
>Anyway, rambling here. THere is a more cohesive idea
>somewhere here if I think about it more and give it more time.
>
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Aug-25-22 08:21 AM

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29. "You right"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Like I am not one to go to the conclusion that it would have been better if Prince of MJJ never blew up or crossed over.

I mean the real culprit I think is the corporate take over of radio and having a few corporate taste makers deciding what will be big for the entire nation. They are the ones that compartmentalize what we here.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Wed Aug-24-22 12:22 PM

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14. "Usher going at us Gen-X-tied-to-the-radio people - vibe"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Usher pushes back on R&B is dead claims

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRf6oQfmqiw


https://www.vibe.com/music/music-news/diddy-r-b-is-dead-backlash-response-1234688609/

NEWS
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MUSIC NEWS

Usher On Diddy’s Claim That R&B Is Dead: “It’s Blasphemous”

"I'm not f***in' with none of that," the singer said.


BY MYA ABRAHAM

AUGUST 23, 2022 11:56AM

Leave it to the King of R&B, Usher, to call Diddy out on his proclamation that “R&B is dead.” In a recent sit-down with host Bevy Smith, the “My Way” crooner expressed that he wants no parts of that debate.

“How can something come out 20-some odd years ago and then all of a sudden have a resurgence in a way that people just wanna talk about it, sing it, enjoy it? That’s because it’s classic. That’s ‘Superstar.’ That’s R&B,” he stated. “So when I do hear people, even like Puff saying ‘R&B is dead,’ he sounds nuts to me. It sounds crazy especially knowing he was a pioneer and beneficiary of it (…) There would be no hip-hop (without) R&B. So it’s blasphemous to hear people say anything—especially hip-hop cats—to say anything about R&B.”


When the Love Records CEO took to Instagram Live last week, hosting a two-part “panel” on the state of R&B, it was met with backlash. Naturally, he offered some “clarity” on Twitter days later.


“This conversation was out of love and me purposely wanting to bring attention to R&B! It was something that I saw the effect of the Hip hop and R&B balance. That balance is honesty and realness when it comes together, melodies, vulnerability and most importantly LOVE!!! This message is that R&B game needs more love, vulnerability, support!!,” Diddy tweeted.



Diddy eventually landed on the following sentiment: “R&B is real motherf**king dead as of right now. The R&B I made my babies to? R&B gotta be judged to a certain thing—it’s the feeling though, doggy. It’s a feeling. You gotta be able to sing for R&B and then you gotta tell the truth. R&B is not a hustle. This shit is about feeling your vulnerability.”

He continued, “You gotta muthaf**kas make a n***a d**k hard or a woman’s vagina wet. You gotta cry. You gotta be able to get your girl back. I don’t wanna hear all this bulls**t. It’s a lack of vulnerability. It’s our fault for accepting anything less for anybody getting on a mic. I feel there was a death of R&B singing, and I’m a part of bringing that s**t back!”


Back in May, Diddy announced his new R&B label, Love Records. “For the Label I’m focused on creating timeless R&B music with the next generation of artists and producers. Motown is the perfect partner for my album and I’m excited to add to its legacy,” he said in a statement. The mogul has also released the single “Gotta Move On,” featuring the trapsoul pioneer, Bryson Tiller.

Listen to Usher’s perspective on the state of R&B in the full audio clip below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRf6oQfmqiw

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Aug-24-22 01:01 PM

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22. "Usher is an F'ing National Treasure. "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

That dude is single-handedly holding it down.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed Aug-24-22 12:24 PM

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15. "'r&b aint dead. yall niggas just ugly' (c)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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McLaren212
Member since Jun 15th 2005
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Wed Aug-24-22 12:28 PM

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16. "RE: R&B Music is dead: from me to Diddy to MJB to whatever else"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I will concede that the 90s - early 20s R&B is dead.

The ladies still make solid vulnerable music - Jazz, H.E.R., SZA, Summer Walker, Snoh Alegra, and Beyonce. Summer Walker is a star (IMO) but she has/is embraced the toxic relationships angle. If you have listened to Summer's CLEAR EP and some of her acoustic stuff, you can see the whiff of what could have been a classic R&B legend.

The top male R&B singers have either embraced the Drake passive aggressiveness or lean heavily into the get money/f-b!tches tropes (Brent Faiyaz, GIVEON, WEEKND, PND, Chris Brown's recent output). Someone mentioned him/it before but every since Bryson made "Trap Soul" people have been trying to conjure up something similar.

You still have the New Orleans based R&B folk like PJ Morton, Lucky Daye and Ambre who have put out fantastic material that are not picked up by the mainstream.




  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Wed Aug-24-22 12:31 PM

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17. "that PJ Morton though"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=HmxRqWPJT2c&feature=share

  

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Binlahab
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Wed Aug-24-22 12:44 PM

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19. "absurd. i could list 20 artists that have released albums"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that are bangers within the last 2 years.

people who say this are lazy and i have zero sympathy or patience for that mentality

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Wed Aug-24-22 12:45 PM

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20. "I gotta confess...I don't quite understand what Puff is trying to say"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


From reading the swipe up there, I don't understand exactly what he's being critical of in regards to R&B.

And to be fair, I think that there have been a couple of really, damn good R&B projects recently (Lucky Daye, Syd, Leon Bridges, Snoh Allegra, Silk Sonic, Cleo Sol, Lianne LaHavas)

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Wed Aug-24-22 01:04 PM

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23. "Puff and Tank and MJB are saying there seems to be no..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

"Groundswell" of the Black community saying Cleo Sol and SZA is "our music" "our jam" "our stars"

Us Gen-X people are used to the Black community having that kind of vibe.

WE remember Whitney getting booed at the Soul Train awards.

THAT kind of "Black Community having an overall VOICE/STANDARD/"thrust"

uh...

Thanks being true to the OKP/Bougie code but....saying you can "find" a good Cleo Sol album streaming on the internet somewhere just....doesn't seem to adequately "replace" what me, Diddy, Tank and Mary seem to remember about how the Black Community used to voice it's overall "thing" about WHAT WAS "IT" AT ANY PRESENT MOMENT.

  

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jimaveli
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Wed Aug-24-22 01:48 PM

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26. "RE: Puff and Tank and MJB are saying there seems to be no..."
In response to Reply # 23
Wed Aug-24-22 01:54 PM by jimaveli

  

          

>"Groundswell" of the Black community saying Cleo Sol and SZA
>is "our music" "our jam" "our stars"
>
>Us Gen-X people are used to the Black community having that
>kind of vibe.
>
>WE remember Whitney getting booed at the Soul Train awards.
>
>THAT kind of "Black Community having an overall
>VOICE/STANDARD/"thrust"
>
>uh...
>
>Thanks being true to the OKP/Bougie code but....saying you can
>"find" a good Cleo Sol album streaming on the internet
>somewhere just....doesn't seem to adequately "replace" what
>me, Diddy, Tank and Mary seem to remember about how the Black
>Community used to voice it's overall "thing" about WHAT WAS
>"IT" AT ANY PRESENT MOMENT.

We dropped the ball on that voice shit a long time ago IMO. Folks hated on Whitney. We let 'them people' decide that MJ and Prince were 'whatever' while hella artists copied their whole shit all the way to fame. Outkast was selling records for sure but weren't really big shit until their last album together. People were too busy looking at maps to decide who could be assumed as dope and who couldn't. And even with that, Jayz's career might've been over if he doesn't sample Annie on like his 4th album.

We also used our 'voice' to excuse R. Kelly and, at the same time, help knitpick and harass Maxwell and D'Angelo into prolonged absences, didn't we?

Now sure, we made sure Gerald Levert got to sing whenever someone needed 'a real singer'. And we did alright by Jill too in my book. So it wasn't a total fail. But we aren't blameless here, are we? This didn't 'just happen' to us, did it?

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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Wed Aug-24-22 02:00 PM

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27. "We sort of did do it to us because radio got arrogant and didn't..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

...give more variety. Like I said, they let that trap sound dominate too long and people got tired of it. Radio didn't lead the way.

P-Funk said radio needed a little push to play P-Funk

Radio needed a little push to play De La Soul

But radio got too arrogant when radio decided people would love trap-R&B and trap hip-hop FOREVER

There needed to be that "open window" to the P-Funk's and De La Soul's that opens up every 10 years on Black radio


>But we aren't blameless
>here, are we? This didn't 'just happen' to us, did it?

  

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jimaveli
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Wed Aug-24-22 03:39 PM

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28. "They STAYED arrogant"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

>...give more variety. Like I said, they let that trap sound
>dominate too long and people got tired of it. Radio didn't
>lead the way.
>
>P-Funk said radio needed a little push to play P-Funk
>
>Radio needed a little push to play De La Soul
>
>But radio got too arrogant when radio decided people would
>love trap-R&B and trap hip-hop FOREVER
>
>There needed to be that "open window" to the P-Funk's and De
>La Soul's that opens up every 10 years on Black radio
>
>
>>But we aren't blameless
>>here, are we? This didn't 'just happen' to us, did it?
>

I'm with you there. Radio has and has had hella data available to do better. And even worse, when they had 'real DJs', they had those folks telling them what they needed to play and a bunch of the stations didn't really listen.

In the 70s and 80s, there were record clubs and DJs/rich kids who were in those clubs would get EVERYTHING (albums, 12" singles, remixes, all of that), so they knew damn well what was jamming. But stations had 'formats' by then so there was only so much they could do. And that says nothing of payola of course.

Even in the mid-90s, I had homeboys who did street team stuff for some record labels. And so sometimes, we'd be in clubs well before they opened. And we'd be talking to the DJs: club DJs, radio station DJs, traveling with acts type DJs, working on a few beats here and there DJs, all of those types of DJs. And what do you know...they knew about EVERY FUCKING THING musically. The labels sent them stuff and they listened to A LOT OF MUSIC. We marveled at how much music those folks had access to (not knowing that we would too a few years later). And they would be like 'man, I can't even break records unless I'm on at *insert some weird time of the day*'. And I was thinking 'how is it that even the damn DJ can't play what's jamming!? That sucks!'. And then, we'd ask them to play weird jamming shit that wasn't going to get played that night over the club speakers before doors opened. And they would. They'd damn near be 'breaking records' to us! And of course, they loved stuff that wasn't always with whatever 'format' they were stuck with at the club and/or on the radio.

Back to the radio and their stubbornness: they damn near need to have a PFunk overtake things before they're like 'oh, aight..let's get in on this'. They did it with 'neo soul' too. We were damn near at Musiq Soulchild in 2000 before it wasn't abnormal to hear the main folks from that group of acts on the radio depending on the 'format' of the station. And even then, it was still kinda weird to catch a Just Friends, Long walk or whatever.

Ruts are ruts for a reason tho. And radio has been in one basically forever. They got away with it because it was much harder to get by without them IMO. But shit..go back to the 60s. Then, cats started going out of their way to make whole jamming albums. Then, Soul Train gave more of a platform to see shit performed while at the house. Then, cable/music videos blew that wide open. Then The Box previewed today's youtube and streaming setups. Then Napster took illegal free shit from 'dub me a tape of that Sade we was listening to the other day at your house' to 'here's all of Sade's music if you have a decent internet connection and space on your 10 GB hard drive. Then CD Burners escalated THAT.

And even then, radio mfers didn't get it! And they were still trying to hold artists and labels hostage! Still!

Then streaming hit and yeah...to me, its been a wrap since then. Algorithms/play counts are the radio. Besides that, there's no central point for 'we might not have EVERYTHING that is jamming, but if it is here, it is PROBABLY jamming'.

Maybe it is because I was just the right age to be be noticing most of these things and how it helped people drift away from the radio that it feels so clear to me that the radio ain't shit, hasn't been for a long while, and its their own fault that people don't take cues from their funky asses anymore.

But there IS something to be said about how this has impacted/further segmented the music to the point where everyone is their own DJ now. And, real talk, most people are NOT qualified for that gig! So artists almost have to find 'lanes' and ride the shit out of them or risk being up a creek with people who don't have the range. It is a wild change from late 90s when rappers were trying to make 'something for everybody' albums. Now, the Griselda dudes will put out a 30-minute release with basically no basslines and a 'You don't know' yelling/singing sample on damn near every song and its totally fine because that's what people want from them.

  

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Teknontheou
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Thu Aug-25-22 08:39 AM

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31. "The trap shit dominates because it's cheaper and easier"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

to make.

And alot of people make and record stuff in their bedrooms where they tend to be quieter, so the vocals aren't there. Plus no one makes R&B any longer for the purpose of performing it in front of a live audience (where there could be any dancing, hence crowd noise.)

  

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double 0
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Thu Aug-25-22 11:30 AM

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39. "RE: Puff and Tank and MJB are saying there seems to be no..."
In response to Reply # 23


          

That changed in 1996

Mary was not a "pop" artist until laterin her career. She was an R&B STAR, as was Jodeci

"The Telecommuncations Act ushered in a new era of radio consolidation, flattening Black music to fit under one ad-friendly umbrella."

https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7vjqm/this-1996-law-was-meant-to-save-radio-instead-it-decimated-popular-black-music

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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jimaveli
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Wed Aug-24-22 01:41 PM

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24. "RE: I gotta confess...I don't quite understand what Puff is trying to sa..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

>
> From reading the swipe up there, I don't understand exactly
>what he's being critical of in regards to R&B.
>
> And to be fair, I think that there have been a couple of
>really, damn good R&B projects recently (Lucky Daye, Syd, Leon
>Bridges, Snoh Allegra, Silk Sonic, Cleo Sol, Lianne LaHavas)

You and Bin are on it. But people have to be ready mentally to receive the goods when they come. That's hard to do when you're 'hating for attention', which is a whole business model now sadly.

And then, we know how it goes..people be sleeping sometimes. Then, eventually, there's a wake up and then the artists who got slept on have to hope they still have more jams in the can / somebody doesn't jump in front of them and 'take their spot' when it is time. Syl Johnson/Al Green. UGK/the early 2000s Houston folks who weren't nearly as good.

And we know this too...getting the right arrows pointing TO the music at the right time is OFTEN more important than just making 'good music' and assuming people care enough to 'find it'. And we REALLY know that some people would rather complain about there not being any music while being surrounded by music that they just don't know about for some reason. I think there's SOMETHING for pretty much EVERYBODY if you still like any music at all and you're willing to look around a little bit for what you want to hear.

But hey...that's why I keep saying 'maybe these artists understand some of this and that's partially why they're not trying to be Bono. Instead, they're trying to be Curren$y or, at the most, get a run of visibility but basically stay as they are like a 2Chainz'.

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
14097 posts
Wed Aug-24-22 01:46 PM

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25. "If we're used to radio setting the mark - IG and streaming "surrounds"?"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

> surrounded by
>music that they just don't know about for some reason

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Aug-25-22 08:24 AM

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30. "Man I was super-excited when I first heard an all hip-hop radio station "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Having grown up when hip-hop was limited to like one show late at night on WOWI.

But when I moved to NYC there was Hot97 which was playing hip-hop all day, I started to miss my VA radio stations. Mainly, because those stations would play such a wide variety of black music all day. It would be nothing for a the Budda Brothers to go from playing 70s R&B to 90s hip-hop all in the same show. That was missing on hot97.

Then WOWI got bought, got rid of the local morning DJs are started playing syndicated shows like the breakfast club. I hate it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Teknontheou
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Thu Aug-25-22 08:48 AM

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32. "What's maddening about NYC is there's only one station"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

that focuses on R&B, since Kiss FM turned into ESPN radio 10 years ago.

All these black people in the biggest city in America and there's only one station for that.'That's ridiculous

Philly has 2 stations dedicated to just R&B, one station that plays classic Hip-Hop and one that plays current Hip-Hop.

DC and Baltimore have a shared classic Soul station and DC has HUR, and each city has it's own current-day Hip-Hop station.

NYC black radio is broken and has been for a while.

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Aug-25-22 09:25 AM

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34. "part of it is lot of people don't listen to radio anymore more everyone...."
In response to Reply # 32
Thu Aug-25-22 09:34 AM by ThaTruth

          

is into their own streams/playlists/imusic/spotify/podcasts

back in the day we had CD's, tapes(yes I'm old) but we still listened to radio now the only time I listen to radio is when I'm in a work/rental vehicle and I can't connect my phone

another part of it is a lot of the local radio shows went national, I'm in STL and(I think) we have a hip-hop station, an old school/R&B station and a "top 40" station that plays a little bit of everything I think one of them just brought back a local morning show but I'm not sure which one lol

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Aug-25-22 09:45 AM

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35. "Yeah but look who does still listen to radio?"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

Old Heads who like R&B. It kinda doesn't make sense that radio would chase young listeners when young listeners don't listen to the radio.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Aug-25-22 09:51 AM

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36. "true...I think its a conflict of interests because the marketing and..."
In response to Reply # 35


          

advertising people tell them they have to go after that younger demographic

>Old Heads who like R&B. It kinda doesn't make sense that
>radio would chase young listeners when young listeners don't
>listen to the radio.


________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
17897 posts
Thu Aug-25-22 09:22 AM

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33. "Not dead, just different, and needs to step away from Hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Bentagain already named a lot of dope artists in the r&b lane that are putting our quality music today.

But the mainstream/radio/most heard/viral/whatever that is out front is decidedly different from what most of us used to 90's/80's/70's r&b like to hear.

Just my two cents:

1. Hip-hop and r&b had their honeymoon/blissful period in the 90's. They need a trial separation now. Too many mainstream cats basically spittin' the same bullshit rappers spit. Too many songs with rap verses that don't need them.

2. Not enough love anymore. Dudes used to sing about LOVING women, not just hittin' it. There's no more begging, pleading, complimenting, wooing or just plain game anymore. It's all "my car, my house, i got stacks, imma boss, i can make you a boss, let me purchase you" in essence.
______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.

  

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jimaveli
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Thu Aug-25-22 04:53 PM

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41. "RE: Not dead, just different, and needs to step away from Hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Yeah. I don't like hiphop taking all of the blame but it isn't innocent so I'll leave it alone.

I don't know if its lack of love even. To me, sometimes I don't hear enough of the 'feeling'. Its like someone shows up with a thought. And then, if it hits, then all of a sudden a bunch of people show up 'feeling the same way' but its almost obviously manufactured. Maybe that's not new, but it feels more 'calculated' now than ever. I'm even skeptical of the shift towards 'hey, we're happy now yawl!' that I'm thinking is coming. I'll take it over continuously moody and brooding sadness for sure.

But hey, 'real feelings' are expensive to package and risky to put out for commerce unless that 'feeling' is what people wanna hear at that time, right? IE: it can REALLY work and then it can really fail hard.

I remember saying 'a woman can have a hit if she shows up and says something bad about dudes and/or a break-up in the right way' like 25 years ago. It was after Alanis. And then there was Beyonce and Adele. And Kelis. Or even a Blu Cantrell. Clearly some people wanted to hear a woman say 'Fuck that dude' at some ex. Mary J was probably more 'balanced' with it but she got it out there too.

But...feelings CAN backfire on you, right?

I think about Marvin and Here, My Dear. He put that out right when people were trying to dance/party/lighten-up and it bricked. I'm sure Motown didn't help and Marvin was obviously self-destructing by then too. But still, that album was weird, jamming, heavy, and one hell of a set of confessions and observations. It just wasn't time for it yet. And there's grown folks who swear they love 'ole school music' but they haven't heard it cuz they're not playing 'Is That Enough' on Uncle Ray's R&B radio station.

Even something like Lauryn Hill showing up in 2002 like 'hey, this fame shit!? It doesn't make the evil mfers all around us LESS evil. I'm not sure I want any of it anymore' on Mystery of Iniquity didn't land as well as it could've if it had some at a time where people wanted that info from her. Now, people say basically that all the time and its whatever. Stream number king himself (Drake) can't wait to claim he doesn't know if he wants all that he has because of what he's had to 'pay' to get it and keep it.

Even now, Kendrick Lamar is going to therapy and trying to tell people to work on themselves on his last record. And some people aren't with it cuz it didn't 'hit them' like they wanted it to. But its pretty much gonna be his Here, My Dear 10 years from now. AKA some people will look back and say 'Whoa, dude was trying to tell us all of this shit here and we missed it!? We suck!'.

So, what does an artist do?

>Bentagain already named a lot of dope artists in the r&b lane
>that are putting our quality music today.
>
>But the mainstream/radio/most heard/viral/whatever that is out
>front is decidedly different from what most of us used to
>90's/80's/70's r&b like to hear.
>
>Just my two cents:
>
>1. Hip-hop and r&b had their honeymoon/blissful period in the
>90's. They need a trial separation now. Too many mainstream
>cats basically spittin' the same bullshit rappers spit. Too
>many songs with rap verses that don't need them.
>
>2. Not enough love anymore. Dudes used to sing about LOVING
>women, not just hittin' it. There's no more begging, pleading,
>complimenting, wooing or just plain game anymore. It's all "my
>car, my house, i got stacks, imma boss, i can make you a boss,
>let me purchase you" in essence.
>______________________________________________________________________________
>
>"To Each His Reach"
>
>but.....
>
>Fuck aliens.

  

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Airbreed
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Thu Aug-25-22 10:01 AM

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37. "It's amusing to watch kids get in their feels when the elders critique....."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Aug-25-22 10:10 AM by Airbreed

  

          

....newer music movies, clothing, etc.

Talking alladat stupid shit about them being old, bitter and out of touch. LOL

They're just reminding folk how immature and insecure they really are when what they love is challenged by aunties and uncles as being basic or subpar.

Rather than opine with a constructive thought or conversation about it, they resort to the ageism garbage. These kids nowadays are soft AF and need to be handled with a pair of white gloves and a dollop of baby lotion.



  

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WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
17897 posts
Thu Aug-25-22 10:34 AM

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38. "More amusing: watching the same kids turn 35-40"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Whooooooo! When they become the "old fogeys" i hope they are still on the socials, cause I could use a good laugh.
______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.

  

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snacks
Member since Sep 15th 2005
5822 posts
Thu Aug-25-22 12:38 PM

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40. "Don't this nigga own a TV network?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

He would've been better off actually doing what he said he was gonna do (bring attention to R&B) then say this bullshit

R&B is "dead" in the sense that the "good" R&B that brings that "feeling" is harder to find. Radio and major networks markets what sells, which is their objective. So of course many younger artists who are looking to get out of whatever situation they're in are gonna model their music around what is working

There are what ... 60,000 songs uploaded to streaming a day on average IIRC. This is a LOT of music to sift through, but reality is the majority of people who make these claims aren't willing to do the work to sift through

For context, I am 36. All of my friends my age, and that is no exaggeration, either listen to current radio or find their favorite R&B artists from the 90s-2000s, yet make similar claims. Among my peer group, me and my girl are the only ones who actively seek out new music and new artists, and we are consistently overwhelmed with the choices

Reality is the way we consume music has changed, and a lot of people don't want to make that adjustment. This is fine, but it's annoying when they complain about a lack of good music. I call bullshit, and especially on Diddy. He has the platform to highlight newer artists for Black people to rally around and chose to go this route instead, so it's on his fault for coming off like an old, washed hater. I could name more artists who are making good music, but bentagain covered a good amount

_____________________________________

The Brand Pod
https://www.youtube.com/@themonarchbrand
https://www.themonarchbrand.com/

The Life Pod
https://www.youtube.com/@thewaterpodcast
https://redcircle.com/shows/the-water-podcast

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
6084 posts
Fri Sep-09-22 01:54 PM

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42. "if R&B is dead, Diddy was the architect"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13621 posts
Fri Sep-09-22 02:42 PM

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43. "Mainstream people have no loyalty. They'll change-up what they "love" ....."
In response to Reply # 0


          

...in a heartbeat.

Music (and other art) is probably just background music for them... a soundtrack to whatever else they are doing.

What "killed" R&B is what kills every other trend that makes it to the mainstream... the fickleness of the everyday consumer. They don't care that much, as it's not that deep to them.


On the bright side, as some other posters pointed out R&B isn't really dead, it's just the good stuff is back in the underground.

Kinda like rock... I'm a rock dude, and we're quietly in a golden era of indie rock bands, and I doubt most of them are on the radio or cable TV.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18724 posts
Fri Sep-09-22 03:28 PM

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44. "RE: Mainstream people have no loyalty. They'll change-up what they "love..."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>...in a heartbeat.
>
>Music (and other art) is probably just background music for
>them... a soundtrack to whatever else they are doing.
>
>What "killed" R&B is what kills every other trend that makes
>it to the mainstream... the fickleness of the everyday
>consumer. They don't care that much, as it's not that deep to
>them.
>
>
>On the bright side, as some other posters pointed out R&B
>isn't really dead, it's just the good stuff is back in the
>underground.
>
>Kinda like rock... I'm a rock dude, and we're quietly in a
>golden era of indie rock bands, and I doubt most of them are
>on the radio or cable TV.

Can you give me a few names of who to check for? I wouldn’t even know where to start with rock right now.

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
14097 posts
Fri Sep-09-22 06:55 PM

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45. "Crumb"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

HOMESHAKE

Beach House

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13621 posts
Wed Sep-14-22 04:09 PM

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51. "Crumb is really dope"
In response to Reply # 44
Wed Sep-14-22 04:14 PM by flipnile

          

Really like these bands also:

- Khruabin
- Chicano Batman
- Frankie and the Witch Fingers
- Dead Meadow
- Meltt
- Post Animal
- Acid Dad (really dig their music... Mad guitar)
- Men I Trust



The KEXP YouTube channel, as well as the Levitation Sessions YouTube channel have some pretty dope live performance sets by dope bands... Two of my favorite channels to find new live music.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Sat Sep-10-22 07:15 AM

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46. "That’s because today’s artist can’t SANG."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Sep-10-22 07:23 AM by allStah

          


They didn’t grow up in the church, where you’re taught how to sing gospels and
carry different notes. They just harmonize or sing in falsetto. They lack SOUL.


Example, I do enjoy The Internet. They have some good songs, but Syd isn’t really singing.
She is just harmonizing, and she sounds terrible live, and her new stuff without The Internet
Isn’t really RnB in my opinion.


Today’s RnB lacks seasoning, and doesn’t create that feeling where you want to get
sensual, or think about a time when you were making love. Today’s RnB is mostly fast food
melodies that don’t stick to your heart or soul. There is no baby making music in today’s
industry.

The last of the Mohicans were probably Frank Ocean, Miguel, The Weeknd( his old stuff)..


Muni Long is decent, but it’s mainly falsetto. Vocals aren’t strong, but she does have some
music that gives that real RnB feeling. HER is descent too, but again, she can’t really
SANG. She’s creative and talented, but she ain’t vocally blowing down doors.


Leon Bridges sounds like a white man trying to be soulful. It’s not wack, but it’s not really
soulful either. It’s the same with Khalid. I do like “Locations”, but again the majority
of his music is just him harmonizing.

Every generation grows from the previous generation….from Aretha,Minnie and Chaka to
Anita, Mikki Howard, Whitney and Miriah, to Badu, Jilly Jill and Mary J….who carries that
that torch today? NO ONE..

Today’s artist just aren’t vocally strong, and they lack soul seasoning to give RNB songs
that true soulful feeling and sound.





ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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tariqhu
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Sat Sep-10-22 03:02 PM

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47. "talent has little to do with this."
In response to Reply # 46


          

while I do agree that sangin' ain't what you get on the radio much now. the issue, to me, is there's too much music and too many avenues to get it.

as noted earlier, there's is a ton of folks that can deliver strong vocals and dope albums, but that's not what is pushed to the people. add to that, because it's so easy to have music all the time without really trying, most people just consume what they're given rather than looking beyond that.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18724 posts
Sat Sep-10-22 05:59 PM

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48. "how do you feel about the Silk Sonic album? "
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

Because I really like it. And I like Paak’s albums.

My knowledge of R&B is down though. I enjoy Muni Long(someone mentioned her). I really like BeMyFiasco - who I know of from following Phonte/Little Brother.

Other than Leroy Bumpkin and thebigfunk’s posts on the Lesson, I don’t have great outlets for staying up on R&B - which is a necessity because as others have said l: the mainstream R&B pushed is largely trash.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
80110 posts
Sat Sep-10-22 07:46 PM

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49. "damn, I was almost with you until you said Frank Ocean "
In response to Reply # 46


          

that nigga can't SANG

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Teknontheou
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Mon Sep-12-22 08:01 AM

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50. "Right? Lol"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

  

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