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Subject: "My job hunt has me down ya'll." Previous topic | Next topic
double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22129 posts
Mon Jun-13-22 03:24 PM

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"My job hunt has me down ya'll."


  

          

I've been at my current job for 6 years which is forever in tech.

For years peers have been telling me that I need to get out there and that I've outgrown the job.

I've complained about being there for years and I knew it was time to move on 4 years ago.

So, I dug in. I spent the past year working on my deck and website. I finally got it done. I started to really feel ok about things.

After this last week, I don't know how to feel any more or what to do besides working on my interview skills.

My hit rates are really good, for every 10 recruiters I respond to, I have on average 8 follow up screening calls and from there about 5 first round interviews.


I'm senior level and I'm looking go into principal level and that's two levels above me but doable with the right amount of finesse. In some cases, I've even targeted director level, but the chances for a hit are lower.

*deep inhale*

So, here are some of the highlight of whats happened over the past few months:

- I'm tapped for a director role. We go back and forth. I go through every round and things are looking strong. I'm given a test and I exceed expectation. I've not worked in this particular industry, but I have experience changing industry (not role) every few years. At the end of the interviews, weeks of indecision. I'm contacted to be told they are still thinking. Then I'm told that they don't want me for the director role, but a lower role (at the same pay I'm making now) with the idea that once I "show them that they didn't have anything to worry about" I would be upgraded to the role I was originally considered for. Nigga please.

- FAANG company #1 - interviewed, made it through all rounds. In the end, one of the mangers says "hey man, you should also apply to this other role I have on my team". Then, nothing. Then word that they don't want to move on. Ok, fine, the recruiter says "oh yeah, lets get on the phone and I can give you your feedback" - except everytime I email for feedback, they never respond. Nigga please.

- I make it through all rounds and the recruiter before the second to last round asks me if I'd be willing to take 10k less than my low end. I paused but then ultimately decided it wasn't a deal breaker. I get the job offer but instead of just making that 10k less amount a base, they wanted to give me a base that would have been 2% more than what I make now and make up the total sum by making total comp base + bonus. Nigga please.

- FAANG company #1 (again) - interviewed and had a hell of a rapport with the interviewer. I was rejected instantly with no feedback. Nigga please.

- FAANG company #2 - I was sweating this one because they are very exact in their interview process. I had to retool everything. They were tight lipped as fuck. Rejected within a week but told, "oh don't worry, most of the people here have interviewed several times before getting the job". Nigga please.

Ther are more stories, but I'm feeling beat. The only good part about this time is that I'm playing a different game. I'm not jumping at any ol' offer. I'm unsure about where I want to go next.

The hard part about this is not knowing where I'm making mistakes. I'm not stopping, I know what I want to work on and what I want to improve...still, there is a sense of uncertainty that I'm fixing one thing but potentially missing something else. No one and I mean NO ONE (employer, or interviewer) will ever tell you whats off.

I for real want to yoke up one of these interviewers to ask them point-blank, “The east coast ain’t got no love for Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg? The East Coast ain’t got no love for Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg and Death Row? Y’all don’t love us? Y’all don’t love us? Well, let it be known then! We know y’all East Coast! We know where the fuck we at! East Coast in the muthafucking house!”


***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
You need an HR friend...preferably in tech
Jun 13th 2022
1
Well played. In the end, the scenario smelled off
Jun 13th 2022
5
      Oh, I feel you...but I was going based on this...
Jun 14th 2022
8
From the VERY OUTSIDE looking in...it seems like....
Jun 13th 2022
2
not quite.
Jun 13th 2022
4
      RE: not quite.
Jun 13th 2022
7
           RE: not quite.
Jun 14th 2022
13
FAANG vs FAANG is the name of the game
Jun 13th 2022
3
Yep
Jun 13th 2022
6
Good luck fam.
Jun 14th 2022
9
RE: My job hunt has me down ya'll.
Jun 14th 2022
10
but you know what...I have that in mind and it's a good thing in a way
Jun 14th 2022
14
Why are you set on jumping 2+ levels?
Jun 14th 2022
11
I'm looking to match my current tasks and responsibilities
Jun 14th 2022
12
      If it was up to you? I think it is up to you.. lol
Jun 15th 2022
16
      Lets act like you know what I mean.
Jun 15th 2022
18
      Have you heard from the other 5 people you need in your corner?
Jun 15th 2022
17
           yeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaah
Jun 15th 2022
19
RE: My job hunt has me down ya'll.
Jun 14th 2022
15
I'm a dirty ass designer.
Jun 15th 2022
20
Word...We got front-end and back-end roles, but I feel you...
Jun 15th 2022
22
Y'all doing WFH?
Jun 15th 2022
21
      RE: Y'all doing WFH?
Jun 15th 2022
23

auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20902 posts
Mon Jun-13-22 04:51 PM

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1. "You need an HR friend...preferably in tech"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jun-13-22 04:52 PM by auragin_boi

  

          

Of the ones you listed, I would have given you some advice on this one:

- I'm tapped for a director role. We go back and forth. I go through every round and things are looking strong. I'm given a test and I exceed expectation. I've not worked in this particular industry, but I have experience changing industry (not role) every few years. At the end of the interviews, weeks of indecision. I'm contacted to be told they are still thinking. Then I'm told that they don't want me for the director role, but a lower role (at the same pay I'm making now) with the idea that once I "show them that they didn't have anything to worry about" I would be upgraded to the role I was originally considered for. Nigga please.

It's ok to accept a back-fill lateral. You'd be astonished at how many companies/managers are either insecure about making the wrong hire or want to make people earn the job. Then they come up with these 'safety net' scenarios. But what I would have told you is...

"Get everything in writing".
1-Ask for the evaluation period to be specified (6 mos? 1yr?) and I would have said argue for a 6 month eval period but no more than 9.

2-Get that 'end of the road' title in writing. If it doesn't work out, you can always say you were 'contracting' when you're back on the market but if it does work out, we not doing the 'well you can do the job but we feel like you'd be good as an Assistant Associate Jr. Director'. Nope.

3-Get the agreed upon salary set. Ok, trail me for x evaluation period, but should I meet or exceed expectations, I want Y dollars for the role. (Let's say you were hunting $120K-135K for this type of role and would have taken $120K easy since it'd be your first director role, well making you prove yourself now comes with a premium because you KNOW you can do the job, so the range is now $135K-150K and I'm taking nothing less. Get it in writing.)

4-Get clearly defined measurables. What they need, what they want done and deadlines to do so if necessary.

*5-If you REALLY wanted to swing for the fences when negotiating, add a provision stating that if you don't meet their expectations, that the have to employ you in the same role you're doing for them for at least 6 months while you seek other employment (rather than them just being able to lay you off).

That offer letter would have been all types of legally binding lol:

Mr. Double Negative
1234 Okayplayer Lane
Anywhere City, USA 54321

We are pleased to offer you the role of (not director)! This role comes with a probationary period of (8 months) during which we will evaluate your skills and abilities. At the end of the 8 month probationary period, should you meet or exceed expectations aligned in the addendum A of this offer, the items in addendum B, which outlines promotional and compensatory considerations agreed upon by both parties, will become effective on (insert date).

Because in the end, you make a professional leap and you lose nothing to prove that you deserve it as you'd have a similar title to your current job at the same pay. And at worse, an 8 month delay in your job search isn't the worst thing in the world (hell, maybe the job market is friendlier in Early 2023 than today).


____________

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22129 posts
Mon Jun-13-22 08:22 PM

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5. "Well played. In the end, the scenario smelled off"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I GET what they are paranoid about, but I'm really and I mean, really not feeling the sensation of living under a microscope.

Esp since I would be in a leadership position in a small-ish company.

I'm not that kind of hungry. Either gimme the job or don't, but don't fuck up my intro and have me walking in the place with all eyes on me waiting to fuck up.

To me its like...it's like willfully being a second class citizen just to be down. I already got a job, it's unfulfilling but it pays the bills, no thank you.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20902 posts
Tue Jun-14-22 08:44 AM

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8. "Oh, I feel you...but I was going based on this..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

"I'm senior level and I'm looking go into principal level and that's two levels above me but doable with the right amount of finesse. In some cases, I've even targeted director level, but the chances for a hit are lower."

From the OP, that sounds like this job was a few notches upward for you so landing a director job would be a huge boon for you based on that info. And to be honest, that's probably why they wanted to see you perform the job duties first. So given the op to move up a couple of levels, I would have suggested you accept it with negotiated terms.

But I do understand not wanting the added scrutiny when starting something new. Ultimately, you gotta do what's best for you. But keep hunting bro, you'll find what you want.

____________

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
12471 posts
Mon Jun-13-22 07:46 PM

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2. "From the VERY OUTSIDE looking in...it seems like...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...you are clearly "careering" when I think these days it's just about going where you can excel.


i.e. you seem to want a job at ANY tech company offering a salary that is "good"


The "opposite" of careering is just going to places you want to work for and telling them how you can improve them.

That would mean you would have to know something about what companies are going somewhere in the tech industry and seem that you would "fit" there.

Looking for "open" jobs seems too much like you don't really care for that particular company.



Got to go for it - not with just anybody "offering" open jobs supposedly at a certain salary.

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22129 posts
Mon Jun-13-22 08:14 PM

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4. "not quite. "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>...you are clearly "careering" when I think these days it's
>just about going where you can excel.
>
>
>i.e. you seem to want a job at ANY tech company offering a
>salary that is "good"
>

I've hit "good" salary 7 years ago. I'm at a point where I'm trying to go up the ladder. My time on the job doesn't match my title or knowledge or exposure to important experiences. My peers have leveled up in knowledge and responsibilities...I've just kept getting raises and I've missed out on growing. I'm starved for knowledge and challenges.

The roles I'm going for are actually interesting and looking to the future which is why I'm bummed out about where I am.


>
>The "opposite" of careering is just going to places you want
>to work for and telling them how you can improve them.
>
>That would mean you would have to know something about what
>companies are going somewhere in the tech industry and seem
>that you would "fit" there.
>
>Looking for "open" jobs seems too much like you don't really
>care for that particular company.
>
>
>
>Got to go for it - not with just anybody "offering" open jobs
>supposedly at a certain salary.

I go where the interesting projects are.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
12471 posts
Mon Jun-13-22 08:34 PM

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7. "RE: not quite. "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

> I'm at a point where I'm
>trying to go up the ladder. My time on the job doesn't match
>my title or knowledge or exposure to important experiences. My
>peers have leveled up in knowledge and responsibilities...I've
>just kept getting raises and I've missed out on growing. I'm
>starved for knowledge and challenges.
>
>The roles I'm going for are actually interesting and looking
>to the future which is why I'm bummed out about where I am.
>
>
>I go where the interesting projects are.
>


"going up the ladder" seems like you aren't "negotiating" where you are correctly. If you have skills and your doing XYZ at your job, then how you negotiate at that job would seem to determine how much farther you can go "up the ladder"

You shouldn't be "performing" at a job with no type of view of the outcome/results of what you are doing at the job if you want to go up the ladder.


If you are going where the interesting projects are then you interviewing at these places where the interesting projects are would have to take on the tone MORE about "I can do XYZ for these type of projects/new horizons in the industry" rather than "my salary has to be this"

I know it seems not sticking to salary demands seems like not being "assertive" but if it really is about the interesting projects/and more importantly the kind of tech company "right" for you, then salary has to go on the back burner because there SHOULD BE TOO MANY 'NOT RIGHT' OTHER TECH COMPANIES WITH LACKLUSTER PROJECTS THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO BE WORKING AT"

So...you do what you have to do (lower salary) to get the RIGHT OPPORTUNITY AT THE RIGHT PLACE.

There really can't be "too many" "right" places.

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22129 posts
Tue Jun-14-22 02:14 PM

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13. "RE: not quite. "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>> I'm at a point where I'm
>>trying to go up the ladder. My time on the job doesn't match
>>my title or knowledge or exposure to important experiences.
>My
>>peers have leveled up in knowledge and
>responsibilities...I've
>>just kept getting raises and I've missed out on growing. I'm
>>starved for knowledge and challenges.
>>
>>The roles I'm going for are actually interesting and looking
>>to the future which is why I'm bummed out about where I am.
>>
>>
>>I go where the interesting projects are.
>>
>
>
>"going up the ladder" seems like you aren't "negotiating"
>where you are correctly. If you have skills and your doing XYZ
>at your job, then how you negotiate at that job would seem to
>determine how much farther you can go "up the ladder"
>
>You shouldn't be "performing" at a job with no type of view of
>the outcome/results of what you are doing at the job if you
>want to go up the ladder.
>
>
>If you are going where the interesting projects are then you
>interviewing at these places where the interesting projects
>are would have to take on the tone MORE about "I can do XYZ
>for these type of projects/new horizons in the industry"
>rather than "my salary has to be this"
>

Maybe I should not have mentioned salary in my original post. It seems to have become a focal point, but also, lets be real, salary is a real concern when it comes to job searching.

>I know it seems not sticking to salary demands seems like not
>being "assertive" but if it really is about the interesting
>projects/and more importantly the kind of tech company "right"
>for you, then salary has to go on the back burner because
>there SHOULD BE TOO MANY 'NOT RIGHT' OTHER TECH COMPANIES WITH
>LACKLUSTER PROJECTS THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO BE WORKING AT"
>


I should not have mentioned salary here. Nowhere in my original post did I say none of the projects weren't interesting.

My actual ranking of decision-making factors regarding a new job would be:

1. 2 to 4 year trajectory. I'm 41, I'm black, I'm in tech, I have two young kids. This is either a hard sell or an easy sell, but I'm not taking chances. I want to be in a really solid position for what comes after the next role. There a ton of roles out there doing some really boring and basic stuff and it pays really well. I want to move into a place that sets up the next ten years.

2. Does this role offer growth and challenges to grow my skill set? Is there a progression for the profession within the company? There is no current progression in my role. I mean, I could get superficial titles tacked on ("_____ senior ll"), but its meaningless if I'm doing the same thing I do but just a bit better.

3. Opportunity cost / Quality of Life. Will I see my kids? Will this role affect my health or quality of life?

4. Salary.

>So...you do what you have to do (lower salary) to get the
>RIGHT OPPORTUNITY AT THE RIGHT PLACE.
>
>There really can't be "too many" "right" places.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Nopayne
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
52495 posts
Mon Jun-13-22 07:59 PM

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3. "FAANG vs FAANG is the name of the game"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Gotta bunch up those interviews and make it clear that you are interviewing with multiple companies at that level. They will most likely fast track you.

---
Love,
Nopayne

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22129 posts
Mon Jun-13-22 08:23 PM

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6. "Yep"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
73788 posts
Tue Jun-14-22 08:53 AM

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9. "Good luck fam. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

I was the Marketing Manager for a small cyber firm and nah.. that isn’t my thing.

I commend anyone who wants to get to those upper rooms. Seems mad stressful but extremely lucrative.

Hope you find your spot.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
47314 posts
Tue Jun-14-22 11:03 AM

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10. "RE: My job hunt has me down ya'll."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My wife took a downgraded position at a FAANG. Took a little while to breakthrough and get back to where she should be and now she is a boss to someone who interviewed her.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22129 posts
Tue Jun-14-22 02:17 PM

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14. "but you know what...I have that in mind and it's a good thing in a way"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

once you get into faang gang, you're good.

hang on, do good work, hit your goals and advance.

This is the story I'm hearing.

Also - once you're in, you can move around. The people I've met so far have been at these places for decades.


I mean, of course, all that glitters ain't gold.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2724 posts
Tue Jun-14-22 01:06 PM

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11. "Why are you set on jumping 2+ levels?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Surface level, that sounds like something that could be causing problems for you. People look at your resume and it says senior. Why would they hire you for principal or director? Even a +1 level (Lead?) would need strong justification. Even if you get the interview you need to show that you have done and are capable of doing X level work, which you probably don't have if you are a senior at your current job. Not sure where you are now, but if you are at a smaller tech company applying at FAANG companies, you would be a lot more likely to be downleveled than upleveled. Senior at a small company is likely not equal to a senior at a big company.

Also, network and get referrals. You pretty much skip the line with a referral and if the person referring you has a good rep at the company that will automatically give you more trust and benefit of the doubt.

I'd focus more on the company and opportunities it would give you and less on trying to level up. Sounds like you primarily are just wanting a fresh start somewhere else which I totally get.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22129 posts
Tue Jun-14-22 01:56 PM

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12. "I'm looking to match my current tasks and responsibilities"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

Honestly, if it were up to me, I would have set my sights lower...like, way lower.

I didn't start thinking about stepping up until I began working with a few career mentors. After many discussions explaining my current task load, output and experience, they suggested aiming for principal roles.

If I land on lead, I would still be happy as long as there is a path forward. There is NO ladder in my role in my current company. I've been told, point blank, if I want to move up then I have to give up my role - essentially, do some other completely unrelated shit. I don't care for management.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
73788 posts
Wed Jun-15-22 09:05 AM

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16. "If it was up to you? I think it is up to you.. lol"
In response to Reply # 12


          

are these mentors white or Black & Brown?

If they are white then you really need to think about it, lol..

Good luck.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22129 posts
Wed Jun-15-22 10:56 AM

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18. "Lets act like you know what I mean. "
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

My mentors are all black men who've either made it past senior or director

I specifically found mentors because I had a very hard time assessing my worth. Some days I felt like a zero, some days I felt competent, some days I felt very competent - but at a baseline, I was always unsure of where I sat.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
47314 posts
Wed Jun-15-22 09:39 AM

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17. "Have you heard from the other 5 people you need in your corner?"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessicahagy/2012/07/17/the-6-people-you-need-in-your-corner/?sh=3c2f00126f71





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22129 posts
Wed Jun-15-22 11:00 AM

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19. "yeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaah"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

eh, we're kinda balls deep in my own psychology here

but

looking at the 6 archetypes, I'm the doubter. It's all the other people in my corner who for years have been saying "Aight man, stop fucking around and wasting your time in a place that doesn't support you doing work thats behind your actual skills"

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Steelysteel
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4918 posts
Tue Jun-14-22 02:17 PM

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15. "RE: My job hunt has me down ya'll."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Fam, I'm in tech and we are looking to add people. We aren't a FAANG (or whatever) company, but the company has stability..Are you a developer, SRE, DBA officianado?

If you want to chat, let me know.


http://www.twitter.com/steelysteel

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22129 posts
Wed Jun-15-22 11:01 AM

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20. "I'm a dirty ass designer. "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Thanks though.

FAANG is not the requirement. The only reason why I've targeted them is that they have super robust design programs.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Steelysteel
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4918 posts
Wed Jun-15-22 12:03 PM

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22. "Word...We got front-end and back-end roles, but I feel you..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Good luck with the search.



http://www.twitter.com/steelysteel

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13166 posts
Wed Jun-15-22 11:56 AM

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21. "Y'all doing WFH?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

I'm a Developer.

Just curious.

  

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Steelysteel
Charter member
4918 posts
Wed Jun-15-22 12:05 PM

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23. "RE: Y'all doing WFH?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Yep. There was some hesitance initially, but they've embraced it and many Developers/SREs/DBAs are now permanently remote, myself included.


http://www.twitter.com/steelysteel

  

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