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Subject: "Biden admin signals student loan forgiveness may come soon" Previous topic | Next topic
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15632 posts
Wed Apr-27-22 11:08 AM

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"Biden admin signals student loan forgiveness may come soon"


          

Unless they put pretty low income caps on forgiveness eligibility, this is a bad idea. It would be a massive wealth transfer to the already well-off.

I think it would backfire politically too. Most student loan debt is from graduate degree seekers. They aren't the ones Dems need to be courting.


https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/27/administration-signals-student-loan-forgiveness-decision-may-come-soon.html

_______________________________________

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
define "well off"
Apr 27th 2022
1
RE: define "well off"
Apr 27th 2022
3
      That threshold is quite low.
Apr 27th 2022
6
      You're glossing over the other side of the picture. Poor folks
Apr 27th 2022
9
           I'm not glossing over it. I'm saying that data is skewed because ...
Apr 27th 2022
18
      well our household made well above 74K in 2021.
Apr 27th 2022
10
           right? we arent hurting but we damn sure aren’t balling
Apr 27th 2022
12
           right, and the only reason we're doing as well as we are...
Apr 27th 2022
14
           Right.
Apr 27th 2022
19
Sounds like a carrot for midterms.
Apr 27th 2022
2
What ?
Apr 27th 2022
4
Transfer of wealth ? LOL what ?!
Apr 27th 2022
5
That quote doesn't mean what you think it means
Apr 27th 2022
13
      "Transfer of wealth" means exactly what I think it means.
Apr 27th 2022
20
           It *kinda* is. I’ll explain
Apr 27th 2022
27
                ^^^sees it
Apr 27th 2022
29
lmao at transfer of wealth
Apr 27th 2022
7
Glad I wasn't the only one.
Apr 27th 2022
8
      look at housing cost and car prices these days..
Apr 27th 2022
11
besides income, what other stipulations would be in place?
Apr 27th 2022
15
How much is he forgiving?
Apr 27th 2022
16
unpopular opinion, but I'm not with it
Apr 27th 2022
17
Yes - this is exactly the type of criticism that should be discussed.
Apr 27th 2022
21
despite everything i said above, i'm here with you.
Apr 27th 2022
23
^^^^
Apr 27th 2022
40
it feels like a stunt
Apr 27th 2022
22
some folks with student loans will say:
Apr 27th 2022
24
yeah. and for sure, they need something
Apr 27th 2022
26
I am pretty sure he didn't run on student loan forgiveness.
Apr 27th 2022
32
You're right and I sent those links lol
Apr 27th 2022
35
how is it crazy?
Apr 27th 2022
41
like having a black woman as vp? appointing a black woman Supreme Court ...
Apr 27th 2022
25
      LOL
Apr 27th 2022
42
I support student loan forgiveness, however;
Apr 27th 2022
28
when yall say what about the poor I hear “what bout the children?”
Apr 27th 2022
30
If we're giving money out, I'd rather it not go to ppl who don't need it
Apr 27th 2022
31
I’m not concerned with stimulating the economy and
Apr 27th 2022
33
      doesn't matter if you are concerned about it or not
Apr 27th 2022
50
           Economic stimulus should not be the goal
Apr 28th 2022
54
My Prediction: Whatever Debt Forgiveness it is, folks will complain...
Apr 27th 2022
34
So what happens in another decade
Apr 27th 2022
36
sees it
Apr 27th 2022
37
Too late to edit, but a personal disclaimer
Apr 27th 2022
38
^^^This
Apr 27th 2022
39
But we don't fix things in this country
Apr 27th 2022
43
^^^
Apr 27th 2022
51
Would you recommend a book or two
Apr 28th 2022
53
It's also debt that in most cases can't be forgiven
Apr 27th 2022
45
A big part of the reason it can't be discharged
Apr 27th 2022
47
      but you see how the current system shifts all of the risk to 18 year old...
Apr 27th 2022
48
forgive their shit too. fuck it.
Apr 27th 2022
46
right? I’m all for changing the current system
Apr 28th 2022
52
I can also see working class backlash to this.
May 09th 2022
59
      Someone chose to have 11 kids and lives off welfare
May 09th 2022
61
           Everyone you listed has a financial need
May 09th 2022
62
                And?
May 09th 2022
63
Crabs in a pot
Apr 27th 2022
44
Pretty much any non universal benefit will be met with backlash
May 10th 2022
64
forgiveness is quietly happening…
Apr 27th 2022
49
Biden: $50,000 forgiveness is off the table
Apr 28th 2022
55
Should have never brought it up, then. Just reschedule weed
Apr 28th 2022
56
Dept of Education forgives more than 110,000 public service loans
May 04th 2022
57
Reason number 1 I left the post office
May 04th 2022
58
i had a professor
May 09th 2022
60

PROMO
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Wed Apr-27-22 11:15 AM

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1. "define "well off""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15632 posts
Wed Apr-27-22 11:18 AM

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3. "RE: define "well off""
In response to Reply # 1


          

"The highest-income 40 percent of households (those with incomes above $74,000) owe almost 60 percent of the outstanding education debt and make almost three-quarters of the payments. The lowest-income 40 percent of households hold just under 20 percent of the outstanding debt and make only 10 percent of the payments. It should be no surprise that higher-income households owe more student debt than others. Students from higher-income households are more likely to go to college in the first place. And workers with a college or graduate degree earn substantially more in the labor market than those who never went to college."

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/10/09/who-owes-the-most-in-student-loans-new-data-from-the-fed/

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
22184 posts
Wed Apr-27-22 11:22 AM

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6. "That threshold is quite low."
In response to Reply # 3
Wed Apr-27-22 11:23 AM by Brew

          

Let's not pretend that a household income of $74,000 means these people are wealthy, at all, by any means.

They're doing fine. But having loans, especially those approaching or exceeding the six-figure mark, on a $74,000 annual salary, is pretty limiting and in some cases, crippling.


>"The highest-income 40 percent of households (those with
>incomes above $74,000) owe almost 60 percent of the
>outstanding education debt and make almost three-quarters of
>the payments. The lowest-income 40 percent of households hold
>just under 20 percent of the outstanding debt and make only 10
>percent of the payments. It should be no surprise that
>higher-income households owe more student debt than others.
>Students from higher-income households are more likely to go
>to college in the first place. And workers with a college or
>graduate degree earn substantially more in the labor market
>than those who never went to college."
>
>https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/10/09/who-owes-the-most-in-student-loans-new-data-from-the-fed/

----------------------------------------

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Wed Apr-27-22 11:30 AM

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9. "You're glossing over the other side of the picture. Poor folks"
In response to Reply # 6


          

The people who need help the most benefit very little

"The lowest-income 40 percent of households hold just under 20 percent of the outstanding debt and make only 10 percent of the payments"

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Apr-27-22 01:01 PM

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18. "I'm not glossing over it. I'm saying that data is skewed because ..."
In response to Reply # 9


          

... that article is painting $74,000 as "well off," when it isn't.

Add people who make $74,000 and below (and probably even a little bit higher than $74k) to the figure you cited, and now we've got much more accurately labeled data points.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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PROMO
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Wed Apr-27-22 11:32 AM

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10. "well our household made well above 74K in 2021."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

and if i had to start paying 300-400 a month in loans, it's gonna be a burden FOR SURE.

shit, my RENT just went up $400 a month and somehow we got "lucky" cuz other people in our complex got increases of $700-1000.

we are by NO MEANS well off. so, please President Biden, send that relief MY way.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
73060 posts
Wed Apr-27-22 11:38 AM

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12. "right? we arent hurting but we damn sure aren’t balling"
In response to Reply # 10


          

and if these loans kick in or one of us loses a gig (wife is going thru some bull right now) it puts us right back to working poor.

I mean.. “we just got money” - Mos Def

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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PROMO
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14. "right, and the only reason we're doing as well as we are..."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

is because we both work regular jobs and i'm a sole proprietor in another w/ relatively low overhead. so i'm already hustling my ass off just to be here. if i'm not working, i'm working.

but my sole proprietor stuff? that shit could be random AF. last year i did 34K in revenue. this year i might do 20, who knows.

if I wasn't doing my side hustle? that rent increase itself would have hurt us BAD. we'd make it but it wouldn't be relaxing.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Apr-27-22 01:01 PM

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19. "Right."
In response to Reply # 10


          

----------------------------------------

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
21520 posts
Wed Apr-27-22 11:17 AM

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2. "Sounds like a carrot for midterms. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And Im not a donkey, mule, or jackass

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Wed Apr-27-22 11:19 AM

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4. "What ?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Dems don't need the suburbs ?

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Apr-27-22 11:21 AM

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5. "Transfer of wealth ? LOL what ?!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Even if it were true that the majority of loan holders are upper class or already-wealthy people (it's not, even just per the below quote from the article you cited), "massive wealth transfer" isn't a term that would apply to this situation at all.

But anyway here's the quote from your article:
"Around 70% of relief from a theoretical $50,000 in student debt forgiveness would go to those in middle-income and low-income neighborhoods, according to a recent study by The Federal Reserve Bank of New York."


>Unless they put pretty low income caps on forgiveness
>eligibility, this is a bad idea. It would be a massive wealth
>transfer to the already well-off.
>
>I think it would backfire politically too. Most student loan
>debt is from graduate degree seekers. They aren't the ones
>Dems need to be courting.
>
>
>https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/27/administration-signals-student-loan-forgiveness-decision-may-come-soon.html

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Wed Apr-27-22 11:46 AM

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13. "That quote doesn't mean what you think it means"
In response to Reply # 5


          

It shows that upper income benefit disproportionately. Upper income make up 25% of the population, but get 30% of the benefit. Middle and low income make up 75% of the population, but get 70% of the benefits.


>
>But anyway here's the quote from your article:
>"Around 70% of relief from a theoretical $50,000 in student
>debt forgiveness would go to those in middle-income and
>low-income neighborhoods, according to a recent study by The
>Federal Reserve Bank of New York."
>
>

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Brew
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20. ""Transfer of wealth" means exactly what I think it means."
In response to Reply # 13
Wed Apr-27-22 01:10 PM by Brew

          

It doesn't apply to this convo.

What you're referring to is who would *benefit* from this theoretical policy, which you accurately labeled in this response.

I'm picking nits but I think it's important because a "wealth transfer" is what happened during the pandemic w/billionaires vs. the rest of us. This is/would not be that, and not even close. So we shouldn't flippantly conflate the two.

----------------------------------------

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Wed Apr-27-22 02:58 PM

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27. "It *kinda* is. I’ll explain"
In response to Reply # 20
Wed Apr-27-22 03:04 PM by John Forte

          

I should preface this by saying, I used to be a financial aid director, in a previous career.

The statistics you see about student loan debt and who has it are all correct. What you don’t see it who is actually making monthly payments, and for how much. Even before the pandemic, no more than 50% of federal student loans were ever in repayment status. This means that a lot of the poor people who get fleeced by for-profit schools are not actively paying their loans. That means poor people, in general are not repaying their loans.

Debt forgiveness does provide a minor benefit to people who are not in repayment, but it does not change their material conditions. They have absolutely no more money to put towards their basic needs. If we forgave the debt of a working-class person making $125 payments loan forgiveness, it would make their life slightly less burdensome, but would not make that much of a change to their material conditions. However, if you give a young professional couple loan forgiveness, we’re talking about easily an extra $1500 in their bank account every month. This would dramatically increase America’s wealth inequality, and probably be the largest driver of gentrification this country has seen

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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29. "^^^sees it"
In response to Reply # 27


          

Also take into account those that didn't go to college and their place on the income distribution. What are they getting?

To sum up, people with the most debt tend to be more highly educated (i.e. graduate and professional degrees), have higher incomes, and have the ability to repay. So let's give them the most money.

Sprinkle everyone else with some crumbs (or nothing at all).

Sounds like the Trump tax cuts, student loan edition

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Apr-27-22 11:25 AM

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7. "lmao at transfer of wealth"
In response to Reply # 0


          

no.. just no.

you have a weird definition of wealth

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Brew
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Wed Apr-27-22 11:29 AM

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8. "Glad I wasn't the only one."
In response to Reply # 7


          

Dude then cited $74,000 as the income level he considered "well off" which is ... welp.

I mean again, I'm not scoffing at $74k in a vacuum. But to lump people @ that income level with *actual* wealthy people is hilarious.

----------------------------------------

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legsdiamond
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11. "look at housing cost and car prices these days.. "
In response to Reply # 8


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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tariqhu
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Wed Apr-27-22 12:03 PM

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15. "besides income, what other stipulations would be in place?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

will it cover all student loans? would there be a distinction in the type of school you went to? what about loans the didn't come from the feds? what about the age of the loan?

I paid mine off in March. Gave them the last 19k that I owed. Happy it's behind me now and not handcuffing my income anymore.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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Wed Apr-27-22 12:20 PM

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16. "How much is he forgiving?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Forgive upwards of 330K counting interest and people might be inclined to vote for Crime Bill Biden.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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shygurl
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Wed Apr-27-22 12:56 PM

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17. "unpopular opinion, but I'm not with it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Mainly because as far as I can tell, the president doesn't have the authority to cancel school loans. Even if he does try it with an EO, it'll just get clogged up in the courts before it's overturned by our very conservative supreme court.

Instead use that political capital to modify the system of school loans, put a cap on the max amount entities can charge in interest and fees (both public and private but esp private), and force those very loud mouthed senators to write legislation for school loan forgiveness that'll actually pass a legal challenge.

(also for the record I'm not against school loan forgiveness, but I am against performative gestures that will do nothing but get overturned in court and give Republicans yet another talking point to use against Democrats)

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

  

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Brew
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21. "Yes - this is exactly the type of criticism that should be discussed."
In response to Reply # 17


          

While I support cancelling student loans, in the big picture it's just a bandaid that doesn't accomplish anything in terms of the root of the problem, which you described. I agree with everything you said in the quote below.


>Instead use that political capital to modify the system of
>school loans, put a cap on the max amount entities can charge
>in interest and fees (both public and private but esp
>private), and force those very loud mouthed senators to write
>legislation for school loan forgiveness that'll actually pass
>a legal challenge.
>
>(also for the record I'm not against school loan forgiveness,
>but I am against performative gestures that will do nothing
>but get overturned in court and give Republicans yet another
>talking point to use against Democrats)

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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PROMO
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23. "despite everything i said above, i'm here with you."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

would i love it happen? sure, especially on a personal level and for people who are in way worse situations than i am - where it would literally change their lives.

do i think it'll actually happen? seems doubtful unless Biden can do it w/out Congress which i'm not sure he can.

and, like you said, there's still issues plaguing our college/university systems when it comes to this stuff that doing this won't fix, unless it's part of some sweeping legislation that addresses those issues as well - which sort of leads me back to "as long as Congress isn't involved" cuz those guys are pretty much ASSHOLES and don't want to help anyone but themselves and their donors.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Wed Apr-27-22 05:18 PM

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40. "^^^^"
In response to Reply # 17


          


Most reasonable post in this.


A lot of folks haven't thought this through. You nailed the coming legal challenges, etc.


This will also backfire politically, imo. What about people with mortgage debt, small business debt, school debt that will start to accrue moving forward, people who just paid off their loans, etc etc.

Could potentially make inflation worse if the economy overheats.

And no matter what is forgiven, there will be some who will say its not enough.


Add to that the timing of this stunt...and the likelihood it won't go through anyway?

Nah.


Should spend this capital on something like permanent child tax credit, paid leave, or something.




  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Apr-27-22 01:11 PM

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22. "it feels like a stunt"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

put it out there and say we tried, but republicans...

i don't think Joe is that cynical, but i can see strategists or pelosi types floating it as a way to motivate turnout among people who aren't likely to vote repub, but likely to stay home.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Wed Apr-27-22 01:49 PM

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24. "some folks with student loans will say:"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

"Biden ran on this and these moderate dems are not getting my vote if they can't keep campaign promises etc."

I've heard it verbatim

The timing is absolutely suspect but as you know, people's memories are ridiculously short

Given how poorly Biden is polling (which is crazy to me) they need a kick in the ass

can't afford a red wave right now

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Apr-27-22 02:13 PM

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26. "yeah. and for sure, they need something"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

because joe's numbers are abysmal, and i assume approval for dems as a whole are similar or worse.

you're not gonna bring over the lets go brandon brigade, so your only real hope is higher turnout from disaffected lefties.

but will they actually try to do this in hopes it will happen, or put it out there then blame the usual manchin/sinema/repubs when it doesn't happen.. or keep it in the air as a way of saying it's never gonna happen if we get a red wave in november?

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Apr-27-22 03:56 PM

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32. "I am pretty sure he didn't run on student loan forgiveness. "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

That was everyone else.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Wed Apr-27-22 04:20 PM

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35. "You're right and I sent those links lol"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

He never said forgiveness outright

You don't have to tell me, you have to tell the hoards of disgruntled city employees in NYC lol

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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41. "how is it crazy? "
In response to Reply # 24


          

>"Biden ran on this and these moderate dems are not getting my
>vote if they can't keep campaign promises etc."
>
>I've heard it verbatim
>
>The timing is absolutely suspect but as you know, people's
>memories are ridiculously short
>
>Given how poorly Biden is polling (which is crazy to me) they
>need a kick in the ass

First, the country is completely fucked in general and never been this partisan. Anyone's ceiling after a honeymoon phase is probably 45-47% tops these days. Tops.

Second, the Biden admin has not done well on basically anything. Voting rights, abortion, immigration, COVID, climate change, inflation, etc. Etc etc.

Dems (rightfully) made a case of how terrible the Trump admin was, culminating with 1-6 being (rightfully) called a terrorist attack.

Then proceeded to...*checks notes*....respond by having Lin Manuel kick some rhymes.

Nah.

Literally every major thing Democrats said was awful under Trump is STILL HAPPENING.

You can't do that cycle after cycle.

They haven't succeeded on any of the major challenges that were placed in front of them. Challenges they themselves sold as important not even 2 years ago.

Not only are they giant hypocrites, but

If you care about any of the stuff I listed, you're probably disappointed.


If you are moderate or whatever, you are pissed that something like BBB was even considered.


In trying to half step everything to not piss off their donors....but keep the progressives engaged, etc...they have managed to piss everyone off.


Infrastructure isn't going to have an impact beyond the contractors for years. There is a reason some GOP were on board.


The approval numbers are not all that surprising to me and shouldn't be to anyone when you are honest about this situation.

>can't afford a red wave right now

The red wave is coming. Its done man.

  

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rdhull
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25. "like having a black woman as vp? appointing a black woman Supreme Court ..."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

Give him a chance/break

>put it out there and say we tried, but republicans...
>
>i don't think Joe is that cynical, but i can see strategists
>or pelosi types floating it as a way to motivate turnout among
>people who aren't likely to vote repub, but likely to stay
>home.

  

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Stadiq
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42. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 25


          

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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28. "I support student loan forgiveness, however;"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Apr-27-22 03:10 PM by John Forte

          

It cannot, and should not come before free public university tuition. The problem with student loan forgiveness, by itself, is that is not universal and also regressive. No one who has already paid their student loans benefits, but more importantly, no one who has yet to go to school received any benefits. Every high school senior in this country will be in the same position that current student loan debt holders are currently in. It is far more sensible to pay forward the next generation. Free college also benefits those people who elected not to go to college because they could not afford it . It can also benefit people who currently have student loan debt, because they could also go back to school. It is a truly universal benefit, as opposed to a bail out of college educated millennials and Gen Xers.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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30. "when yall say what about the poor I hear “what bout the children?” "
In response to Reply # 0


          

no shade but I don’t understand why the first thing people say is “but what about the broke people?”

Yeah, they will remain broke.. sorry, its the truth.

because this aint about making broke people unbroke. Its about giving working poor and middle class folk some relief which will stimulate the economy.

not providing student loan relief aint making none of those broke folk richer..

so how about we chill on the faux concern for broke folk

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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31. "If we're giving money out, I'd rather it not go to ppl who don't need it"
In response to Reply # 30


          

Why use student loans as the vehicle to get money in people's hands? Especially when we know the living conditions of most people with student loan debt is vastly greater than others in this country?

It doesn't make any sense.

_______________________________________

  

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John Forte
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33. "I’m not concerned with stimulating the economy and"
In response to Reply # 30


          

At my socioeconomic status, If I found myself with an extra $500/mo, it wouldn’t go into the economy. I would just increase my savings. The same is true for most of my peers. All of our needs are met, as are most of our wants.

  

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legsdiamond
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50. "doesn't matter if you are concerned about it or not"
In response to Reply # 33


          

it will happen

While you say $500 will go to savings every month that shit is a lie..

you will spend some of that money.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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John Forte
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54. "Economic stimulus should not be the goal"
In response to Reply # 50


          

And if it is, we could accomplish economic stimulus by just sending money to everybody. The goal is to deal with the unaffordability of higher education, and student loan forgiveness would do nothing but funnel money to a self-selecting population made up of one or two generations.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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34. "My Prediction: Whatever Debt Forgiveness it is, folks will complain..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it wasn't enough.... though it will be far more than any other President has ever offered.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Oak27
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Wed Apr-27-22 04:36 PM

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36. "So what happens in another decade"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Apr-27-22 04:59 PM by Oak27

  

          

when a new batch of folks with student loan debt emerges?

Are we just going to continue to forgive debt over and over making taking on student loans a means to going to college for free?

Or are the ones who get their loans forgiven this go around just the lucky bunch?

At what point do we acknowledge the real problem is the cost of college getting completely out of hand and giving 18-22 year olds tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars of debt a terrible idea?

There's no point in focusing on an effect when the real effort should be addressing a completely fixable cause.

  

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John Forte
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37. "sees it"
In response to Reply # 36


          

Debt forgiveness has to come with free tuition

  

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Oak27
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38. "Too late to edit, but a personal disclaimer"
In response to Reply # 36
Wed Apr-27-22 05:19 PM by Oak27

  

          

Full disclosure: I graduated with ~$30k in student loan debt in 2010. Between tuition/room and board my school after scholarships cost about $80K total. Every penny saved through jobs and coops before and throughout college went to school and I was lucky enough to have parents who could contribute. I certainly was one of the lucky ones, though my choice of a more expensive education was simply due to knowing I was getting a degree (Computer Science) that would afford me the ability to easily pay them off. I paid them off within 3 years. My friends who I graduated with weren't so lucky and carried anywhere from $50k-$100k+ of debt, but still, they got degrees that afforded them above-average incomes and none of them are struggling to pay.

I'm not on some "I paid them off, you should to" soap box, but I don't have much sympathy for people who decided it was a good idea to go to private school in a HCOL city for a degree that wasn't worth close to that money. (Sidenote: should schools start charging different amounts for different credits? a humanities class with low return on investment shouldn't cost the same as an engineering class)

The student loan debt situation was a bubble/crisis when I graduated over a decade ago and kids are *still* making these dumb decisions knowing that (and parents are letting them). One of my best friend's little sister decided to go to an uber expensive private school in NYC (Fordham, I think?) knowing damn well she was going to take on debt she's *never* be able to afford to pay off unless she got SUPER lucky. But she laughs it off and is probably out screaming for student loan forgiveness with a "you should feel sorry for me" attitude knowing full damn sure she knew what she was getting herself into.

I'm sorry for folks who are being anchored by their student loan debt but what's done is done, we can focus on you *after* we figure out a way to temper the rising costs of state college and stop allowing kids to fuck up their future.

  

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Stadiq
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39. "^^^This"
In response to Reply # 36


          


Lets say debt is forgiven this summer...what about people starting school in the fall?

Its crazy that THIS is the lefty fantasy the Biden admin is going to work on...actually it is the most likely to backfire so now that I think about it it makes complete sense.

  

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Walleye
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43. "But we don't fix things in this country"
In response to Reply # 36


          

Much less big, important things. Fixing the effect of a broken college system seems like the most ambitious thing we're capable of. So, the point is much simpler than you're permitting here:

It would improve a huge amount of people's lives, at little cost, and it's something that can be done easily.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Frank Longo
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51. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Numba_33
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53. "Would you recommend a book or two"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>It would improve a huge amount of people's lives, at little
>cost, and it's something that can be done easily.

that discuss this in greater detail? I probably won't read them soon to be honest because I'm slowly reading The Power Broker right now, but college/university costs constantly increasing is a fairly interesting subject.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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45. "It's also debt that in most cases can't be forgiven"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

so even if you declare bankruptcy you still owe. The educational lending system in our country is a form of indentured servitude. So even if that degree you bought turns out to be bullshit, or markets shift and the skills are no longer in demand. Fuck you pay me, or just go die.

The penalties and fines for default and late payment can compound and stack up pretty quickly and actually become a bigger part of your debt than the actual money/principle than you borrowed.

That also creates a perverse incentive for schools to increase tuition and financial institutions to loan money to whoever the fuck because it's virtually impossible to default.

So i'm very much in favor of forgiving debt (even though i said fuck it and paid off my own debt recently), but to your point without some serious structural changes we'll be back in teh same spot 10 years from now. My first move would be to make it easy to erase college loan debt through bankruptcy.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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John Forte
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47. "A big part of the reason it can't be discharged"
In response to Reply # 45


          

Is because it’s an unsecured debt that was never credit-based. With the exception of medical debt, which is incurred because they legally have to give you medical treatment, every other form of debt comes from someone deeming you credit-worthy and/or securing collateral. Back when they were issuing FFEL loans, which were a public private partnership, lenders lenders would not have stayed in the business if they didn’t have that guarantee.

  

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GOMEZ
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48. "but you see how the current system shifts all of the risk to 18 year old..."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

and saddles them with a lifetime of debt that can never be escaped ever. And it creates a situation where tuition costs can spike with zero risk to the institutions charging higher tuition and subsequently those debts become even riskier. And all of the burden is being carried by people least capable of carrying that risk. It's fucked.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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46. "forgive their shit too. fuck it."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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52. "right? I’m all for changing the current system"
In response to Reply # 46
Thu Apr-28-22 08:55 AM by legsdiamond

          

while wiping away these loans..

and I would be mad af if I just sent a lump sum to pay them off tho.. lol

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
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59. "I can also see working class backlash to this. "
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

What if you never went to college, but you have a solid blue collar job? You're subsidizing people who went to college, even though you couldn't or chose not to. How is that fair?

Cause the debt forgiveness will fall on the average taxpayer. Trust and believe that money will be paid by someone. Working class citizens who have just made their way in life and will never see the type of money college grads do will obviously (and rightfully) be like WTF?
______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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61. "Someone chose to have 11 kids and lives off welfare"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

Why should I have to subsidize their cash aid, food stamps, and medical coverage?

Hell, why should my tax dollars go to pay for the staff who administer those programs?

And then, they do drugs and get their kids put into foster care.

Why should I have to pay to subsidize those foster care payments and social worker salaries to deal with the consequences of someone else’s decision?

Why should I have to pay for people who receive low cost housing through section 8?

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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62. "Everyone you listed has a financial need"
In response to Reply # 61


          

The typical college graduate has a higher standard of living than people who usual receive assistance.

And those with graduate degrees (i.e. those who would benefit the most from forgiveness) definitely have a much higher standard of living on average.

_______________________________________

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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63. "And? "
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

>The typical college graduate has a higher standard of living
>than people who usual receive assistance.

So?

>And those with graduate degrees (i.e. those who would benefit
>the most from forgiveness) definitely have a much higher
>standard of living on average.

And?

Higher is relative.

Higher doesn’t mean balling, and higher can- and often does- still mean paycheck to paycheck existence, with little room to break out of it.

Nothing you said constitutes a strong argument against loan forgiveness.

  

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handle
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44. "Crabs in a pot"
In response to Reply # 0


          

...

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Adwhizz
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64. "Pretty much any non universal benefit will be met with backlash"
In response to Reply # 44
Tue May-10-22 09:19 AM by Adwhizz

  

          

from whatever group isn't directly benefiting.

and there's enough easily manipulated people who would still find a way to be mad about even something everyone including themself would get.


That's a very effective tool for ensuring nothing ever improves

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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sosumi
Member since May 30th 2012
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49. "forgiveness is quietly happening…"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for folks applying for PSLF under TEPSLF

Education, Military, and nonprofit workers paying regularly for decades
should have had loans forgiven since the Obama admin plan was in place…
but goalposts were moved and interest doubled and payments were not counted properly
(there is a great ep of Patriot Act on netflix dedicated to this among other coverage over the years)

obviously this is part of why people do not believe in gov programs

without giving up too much personal info, I can say that TEPSLF is real and works for those
with fed loans who have been paying 10+ years

sorry for those with other types of loans, maybe that is what Biden is working on

with respect to tuition going forward, of course there are affordable education models
like California’s and New York’s public university systems but they can be just as
competitive as the “ivy” options… and parents with money can always use 529 plans

parents/students without - hope for employment that is not based on the label of the institution but skills and job performance, covid changed what work means

and if you are one of the few people of color at your job or there are few women at your job you have to realize not everyone with a loan-funded degree is getting the opportunity
to pay it off






  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Thu Apr-28-22 03:45 PM

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55. "Biden: $50,000 forgiveness is off the table"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"I'm not considering $50,000 in debt reduction," Biden said during a speech in the Roosevelt Room at the White House. "But I am in the process of taking a hard look at whether or not there will be additional debt forgiveness. I'll have an answer on that in the next couple of weeks."

The president's comments are likely to disappoint advocates and some Democrats, including Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York, who've been pushing him to cancel $50,000 or more per borrower.



https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/28/biden-says-hes-not-considering-50000-in-student-loan-forgiveness-.html

_______________________________________

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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56. "Should have never brought it up, then. Just reschedule weed "
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

and call it a day. At this point the inconsistent messaging and policy strategy of the democrats gonna be a problem in the midterms.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Wed May-04-22 03:11 PM

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57. "Dept of Education forgives more than 110,000 public service loans"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/04/education-department-forgives-loans-of-over-110000-in-public-service-.html

Temporary changes to the troubled Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program have resulted in more than 110,000 people with student debt getting around $6.8 billion in relief.

The new figures from the U.S. Department of Education show how many borrowers are benefiting from the policy fixes announced by the Biden administration last year. Hundreds of thousands more could still see their debt discharged as part of the effort. The average amount of debt reduction per borrower is close to $60,000, according to the Education Department.

The public service loan forgiveness was signed into law by then-President George W. Bush in 2007, and allows nonprofit and government employees to have their federal student loans canceled after 10 years, or 120 payments. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau estimates that one-quarter of American workers could be eligible.

However, the program has been plagued by problems, making people who actually get the relief a rarity.

Borrowers often believe they're paying their way to loan cancellation only to discover at some point in the process that they don't qualify, usually for confusing technical reasons. Lenders have been blamed for misleading borrowers and botching their timelines.

The reforms under the Biden administration include reassessing borrowers' timelines and counting some payments that were previously ineligible because, say, a borrower was unwittingly in a nonqualifying repayment plan.

How can I benefit from the new rules?
To begin, you want to act quickly, said Mark Kantrowitz, a higher education expert.

That's because the Biden administration's new rules for public service loan forgiveness are slated to expire on Oct. 31.

If you have either a Federal Family Education Loan (FFEL) or a Federal Perkins Loan, which don't normally count for public service loan forgiveness but now temporarily do, you'll need to consolidate those into direct loans with your servicer.

_______________________________________

  

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MEAT
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58. "Reason number 1 I left the post office"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Hey that Sallie Mae loan you got, well it's actually a Navient loan now, and the program you've been paying into for 10 years has a 99% rejection rate anyways

Good luck

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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luminous
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60. "i had a professor"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

who said she will have loans until she dies... LOL! so one way or the other taxpayer are going to pay for it anyway.

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

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