"Folks reaction to this HBCU Ralph Lauren Collection is telling"
So Ralph Lauren announces a collab with Spelman and Morehouse to produce a line of fashion by black designers FOR Morehouse and Spelman kids exclusively (i.e., its clearly not intended for everybody).
I'm not personally into that Bespoke Jidenna fashion but I think its a cool idea to honor Black Fashion from back in the day and might even get the sweater for my niece and nephew.
What I did not expect to see was the backlash to it.
What I take from this is that there are a lot of black people who hate our past and can't separate our past from white oppression.
It's why Kanye wants a Black Future Month.
The trip is I showed my mom the fashion and she loved it, but there are a gang of folks online arguing that black people only dressed like that to "as a self preservation tool". To me that statement and a lot of other people saying it makes them think of Jim Crow and water hoses are finding a way to center whiteness in what were actually the Blackest places that have ever existed in this country.
IDK, I think ALL the people who are reacting badly to these photos have no relation or history with HBCUs but I could be wrong.
What do you think?
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
14. "It's really not an insignificant amount of people responding negatively...." In response to Reply # 6
Scrolling through the timeline or searching twitter and its a third to half of people talking about it are talking negatively about it (and not from a pure fashion sense).
And its crazy to me to see so many people feeling comfortable saying its not okay to honor black people dressing nicely from bygone eras.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
30. "don't know when it started." In response to Reply # 22
the perspective of that styling looking like oppression is how some will view it based on how they've learned about those times. my point is that it doesn't seem like a wild take to me, while other viewpoints can also be true.
23. "No, it's absolutely insignificant." In response to Reply # 14
Why the fuck do any of us care what jonx432 with 203 followers has to say about this or about anything? So a "third to half" (so says you) of the people with public accounts, who happened to see this story, and cared enough to make a tweet about it, disliked it.
So fucking what.
"Look, some people on twitter don't like something" is not news. And is quite shitty "journalism."
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Wed Mar-16-22 02:22 PM
25. "twitter journalism is weird" In response to Reply # 23
especially when linking to a photo of someone with their tongue out and a tweet that makes no damn sense.
I wonder how it feels to tweet some random throwaway shit and then circle back and see it being used as a source.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
>This idea that Black people only dressed like this as a >perservation tool. Removes all agency from the black people >who wanted to dress like this. > >Its kinda of like telling women they only dress up, and dress >sexy to appeal to men. > > > >
13. "A ha!!! This is my very point!" In response to Reply # 12
> >> >>Antebellum? Also the photos are from the present day >campus? >>Not being able to see blackness that doesn't center >whiteness. >> >> > >If it's based on a WASPY/preppy style, how is that blackness
I think this question gets to the heart of it and the answer is, its blackness because Black People have been dressing like this for a very long time!!!! This look is a part of our history as well!
For example, these are my grandparents born in 1899 and 1901.
Their world was completely black. They did not deal with White Folks at all. These folks are no more trying to dress like this out of a mode self-preservation than me or you dressing up in a suit.
Do the fashions have white origins? Sure. But we are in no privileged a position to look back and judge how they are dressed and whether its white assimilation. I would argue its less so for them because there world was far blacker than our world.
Now why does she think how they were dressed in 07 wearing Polos is some how different and had different motivations than the people wearing preppy clothes in any other point in black history?
I think what she is saying is academic and does not reflect actually talking to anyone over 70 years old or from that time and how they felt about the fashion they choose.
19. "This is interesting" In response to Reply # 13
> >I think this question gets to the heart of it and the answer >is, its blackness because Black People have been dressing like >this for a very long time!!!! This look is a part of our >history as well! > >For example, these are my grandparents born in 1899 and 1901. > >https://ibb.co/n0c8RK2 >
Yeah if Black folk were dressing like this for a long time, then she is wrong.
>Their world was completely black. They did not deal with >White Folks at all. These folks are no more trying to dress >like this out of a mode self-preservation than me or you >dressing up in a suit. >
True it is wrong for her to misrepresent them like that and make false statements about why they dressed the way they did.
> >Do the fashions have white origins? Sure. But we are in no >privileged a position to look back and judge how they are >dressed and whether its white assimilation. I would argue its >less so for them because there world was far blacker than our >world. > >To put another way, look at this statement: > >https://twitter.com/bronze_bombSHEL/status/1503795030405877769 > >Now why does she think how they were dressed in 07 wearing >Polos is some how different and had different motivations than >the people wearing preppy clothes in any other point in black >history? >
Good question. Didn't really see anybody pushing back against her comments.
>I think what she is saying is academic and does not reflect >actually talking to anyone over 70 years old or from that time >and how they felt about the fashion they choose. > >
It would be better to hear from people in the age group you mentioned, to get a better take on it.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Wed Mar-16-22 10:43 AM
8. "Ye got your mind, soul and ya body fam" In response to Reply # 0 Wed Mar-16-22 10:49 AM by legsdiamond
get off his nutz.
this shit feels a bit suspect to me. How much and is Ralph setting up scholarships. Answer 2 mill. Okay.. hopefully its annually and not a one time money grab.
last but not least, please stop linking to random idiots on twitter. Of all the tweets you picked an idiot who thinks a college campus = slavery?
last question? How much is this shit going to retail for? $300 a sweater?
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
9. "This pre-dates Ye. Ye is just the good example that everyone gets." In response to Reply # 8 Wed Mar-16-22 11:16 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos
At least almost everyone.
Its kind of interesting that you can't abide by seeing a negative Kanye comment without jumping in to defend him, even in post that really isn't about Kanye.
Yet I'm the nut hugger. Okayplayer.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Wed Mar-16-22 11:23 AM
11. "but I’m not defending Ye, what the hell is there to even defend? " In response to Reply # 9
just pointing out how Ye aint got shit to do with this topic.. and you picked a dumb ass tweet from an idiot to bring him into the convo.
That shit is weird *shrugs*
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
20. "Maybe, just maybe there are those of us who wanted a black" In response to Reply # 0
design house.
And what the fuck is the hate our past and can't separate our past from white oppression?
Polo has a problematic history with Black folks, despite the fact that we contributed to their bottom line.
Morehouse has a complex, problematic history with respectability politics, going back to the paper bag test and all that.
And whether or not someone has a "relation or history" to an HBCU, we have a relation to OUR history, which is littered with white entities coopting Black art and aesthetics for their own profit.
Shit's a little bit deeper than what Kanye thinks, Ock.
27. "I dig not liking Polo or not digging Morehouse " In response to Reply # 20
So of course a collection that is conceptualized and designed by Morehouse and Spelman alumni at Ralph Lauren is gonna garner a certain amount of hate. That's why I mention that it was made exclusively for Morehouse and spelman kids. It's not for everybody.
I am reacting to the very common reaction that we should not be paying homage to this specific part of black history. It's a position that people take without acknowledging that feeling comes from centering whiteness.
It reminds me of the argument I got into with a Black Bernie Bro who was mocking Jay Clyburn for sounding like a slave.
It reminds me of folks walking around with "I'm Not My Ancestors" T-shirts (Still available on amazon btw).
It reminds me of "Slavery is a Choice".
It's why I say certain of us have an unacknowledged hate of where we come from.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
29. "RE: I dig not liking Polo or not digging Morehouse " In response to Reply # 27
If we are so concerned with our history, we would not be enshrining it through capitalist enterprises.
This shit has zilch to do with history and everything to do with a specific class sensibility that is maintained at Morehouse and Spelman. And just by the reactions I have seen from fellow alum, its playing out exactly as I have seen things of this nature play out before. Any criticism is suddenly a specific attack on the designer as opposed to being a critique of the corporate practice or the class politics that are playing out.
31. "Well if its class and capitalism, that's a whole separate gripe. " In response to Reply # 29
But you can't act like class issues aren't a part of Black History. Black people have been going back and forth between Bougie and non-bougie black people have been going on forever.
How you going to say black people being bougie has zilch to do with history?
>If we are so concerned with our history, we would not be >enshrining it through capitalist enterprises. > >This shit has zilch to do with history and everything to do >with a specific class sensibility that is maintained at >Morehouse and Spelman. And just by the reactions I have seen >from fellow alum, its playing out exactly as I have seen >things of this nature play out before. Any criticism is >suddenly a specific attack on the designer as opposed to being >a critique of the corporate practice or the class politics >that are playing out.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
24. "Probably the majority of Black people* don't wear dress clothes regularl..." In response to Reply # 0
*At least Black people aged 50 or younger. Makes sense that black men that don't wear suits or black women that don't wear dresses would complain about that style of fashion.
You can go see for yourself. It's warm, go take a walk and see how many Black men/women around college age (or even older) are wearing actual dress clothes.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Mon Mar-21-22 10:02 AM
36. "that white sweater coat and the green BX sweater are tough" In response to Reply # 35
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
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