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Subject: "A Serious Post About The 'Progressive' Approach To Politics" Previous topic | Next topic
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
13977 posts
Thu Jan-27-22 05:51 PM

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"A Serious Post About The 'Progressive' Approach To Politics"


  

          

long post but hopefully we can get a mature discussion on this because im genuinely seeking answers.

ok so bernie surrogate john fetterman is running for senate in my state. same style progressive as sanders. current lieutenant governor. got swept into office during the 2018 dem wave.

he lost his previous run for senate in 2016. so this is his 2nd go at it.

its prolly gonna be a tough midterm for any dem so theyre gonna have to squeeze every vote out of the big tent coalition that they can get.

hes got a glaring vulnerability with black voters. he once chased an innocent unarmed black jogger down with a shotgun and held him hostage until police showed up (he was mayor of that 60% majority black town at the time). he hasnt really offered a full throated apology. in fact...hes just reiterated his excuse that he didnt know the person was black...he never got out of his truck...he never pointed the gun directly at the jogger (the jogger disputes this)...and he never chambered a round to actually shoot the jogger (like that matters). and he essentially blames the jogger for being wrapped head to toe in clothes and a ski mask (in the dead of winter lol).

he also just blew off a forum with black clergy that other candidates attended. this was the night after mlk day btw lol.

hes running on the working class populist angle...criticizing washington dc and the establishment (despite currently holding political office)...is doing sparse campaigning in his states most populous city (philadelphia)...hasnt made many allies among the states dem party...and is shunning appearances with other dems (like biden, the governor, etc). hes betting on voters from his home base around pittsburgh putting him over the top.

big problem tho. his opponent is conor lamb...who is the current congressman for a district around pittsburgh...who is soaking up most of the traditional dem organization endorsements (unions, latino/black groups, etc)...who is endorsed by the philadelphia mayor and doing an appearance with biden soon...and who is steadily eating into fettermans polling lead.

okay.

nina turner is again running for the same congressional district where she blew a *30* point polling lead to lose in a 2021 special election. shes running the same bernie style campaign. alienating a lot of potential dem allies and the people who vote for them. shes 1-2 in elections in ohio and the only race she won she ran unopposed. but shes doing the same thing again.

assuming the goal is to assemble the biggest coalition to win an election...i dont understand this approach anymore. especially after 2020.

i just dont get running in a dem primary but acting like you dont give a shit about core dem constituencies. is adhering to a rigid/restrictive ideology more important than bringing the most voters into the fold?

i mean...even *if* you squeak by with your limited base voters in a divided primary...youre still putting a ceiling on your appeal in the general by not reaching out to the broader dem base.

why is this still a thing?


------

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
dont mind if i do
Jan 27th 2022
1
you kind of proved his point
Jan 27th 2022
2
Show me the law that says there can only be 2 parties
Jan 27th 2022
3
      Duverger’s Law is PoliSci 101
Jan 27th 2022
4
      Again, I fully agree with everything you are saying
Jan 28th 2022
12
           because there is none
Feb 08th 2022
38
                *nods furiously*
Feb 08th 2022
39
how do you amass political power without amassing political power?
Jan 28th 2022
5
You refer to AOC as 'my boo'
Jan 28th 2022
6
I don't under the "Dems Suck" strategy
Jan 28th 2022
7
I worked for Bernie in 2016
Feb 04th 2022
16
      in what capacity?
Feb 04th 2022
18
      Bree is insufferable
Feb 04th 2022
20
           how so? It's interesting how Black women like Briahna
Feb 04th 2022
22
From a centrist dickhead? No thanks.
Jan 28th 2022
8
lmao
Jan 28th 2022
9
Bernie is trash tho....nm
Feb 04th 2022
17
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This times a million (nm)
Jan 28th 2022
11
I'll bite
Jan 28th 2022
10
They need to get better at lying
Jan 28th 2022
13
is it more on the establishment to get their shit together tho?
Feb 03rd 2022
14
I think you nailed what dude is trying to do
Feb 04th 2022
21
      I appreciate reeq. my reply wasn't really about him
Feb 04th 2022
25
           RE: I appreciate reeq. my reply wasn't really about him
Feb 05th 2022
27
The whole progressive movement is a scam
Feb 04th 2022
15
Dems control everything and progressives are the scam?
Feb 04th 2022
23
"Scam" would seem to imply people are making money
Feb 04th 2022
24
moderates are expected to win with the money they raise tho.
Feb 04th 2022
26
      nina turner grifter ?
Feb 05th 2022
30
      This is *very* telling:
Feb 05th 2022
31
      Ok. and what are their large $$ Donors expecting them to
Feb 05th 2022
32
      lol, is this real?
Feb 06th 2022
33
wrong. the 'moderate' movement is the real scam
Feb 08th 2022
37
This had potential - but your approach is disingenuous
Feb 04th 2022
19
It becomes dangerous when they veer into foreign policy too
Feb 05th 2022
28
cosplay opposition.
Feb 05th 2022
29
Yep. Somehow they’re experts on every story too
Feb 07th 2022
34
Not a fan of Ana,Kyle,Jacobin,or Putin, but what exactly is the problem
Feb 07th 2022
35
      Because our other adversaries are watching. Very Closely
Feb 08th 2022
40
           just want to reiterate everyhing i said pre-invasion still applies
May 20th 2022
47
pessimistic about Nina round 2, I think Fetterman wins in PA
Feb 08th 2022
36
Briahna defending Tucker Carlson1?!?
May 19th 2022
41
She’s insufferable
May 19th 2022
42
But this is a new turn for her right?!?!
May 19th 2022
43
I am shocked
May 20th 2022
46
This is a 18 minute long segment. Did you watch all of it?
May 20th 2022
51
Bernie's approach is not progressive. Progression doesn't look
May 19th 2022
44
When did he insist this?
May 20th 2022
45
the moderates control everything. Even the progressives.
May 20th 2022
48
I think this idea of immediate gratification is a dream.
May 20th 2022
49
      The democrat moderates in office are
May 20th 2022
50

Binlahab
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182906 posts
Thu Jan-27-22 06:16 PM

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1. "dont mind if i do"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the system is broken and the democrats are partially responsible for why.

the duopoly ensures that the actual ideals of the people dont get heard.

democrats are center right. they have a demonstrated inability to govern and enact policies that they campaign on.

most people at this point have stopped caring and dont vote at all.

so called "progressive" candidates who talking about things that the majority of people want get dismissed as clowns or amateurs. meanwhile the professionals have been in power for decades.

I dont mean just the fed or state level either

when so called progressives are elected, they must p
people are tired of doing the same thing...and expecting a different result.

its long and i mean LONG time for a real change in the fundamental way this country operates

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4531 posts
Thu Jan-27-22 06:37 PM

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2. "you kind of proved his point"
In response to Reply # 1


          


Nothing you said is wrong, but you're missing a few major points.


1. A third party isn't going anywhere in the US. Never. Ever. This is how the country is built. It is a losing battle and wasted resources.


Which leads to taking over/influencing the Democratic party and the 2nd point...


2. How are progressives going to win more actual elections- be it primaries or otherwise? Complaining about how shitty the system is isn't the answer.



Basically, this Bernie brand of progressive isn't going to do it.


But I don't think either side of this argument does a good job at learning from hisotry/mistakes.



  

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Binlahab
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182906 posts
Thu Jan-27-22 11:29 PM

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3. "Show me the law that says there can only be 2 parties"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Or any parties.

Both parties use ballot access laws to ensure they maintain control on a state level

Then draw the districts on a state level to build control on a fed level.

The two party system is the problem

People have lost all faith in most institutions in America. Govt is just another.

Because the powers that be are concerned with...keeping that power. Not doing what the people need and want

  

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Bumaye
Member since Jul 28th 2005
798 posts
Thu Jan-27-22 11:44 PM

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4. "Duverger’s Law is PoliSci 101"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

From wiki: “ In political science, Duverger's law holds that single-ballot plurality-rule elections (such as first past the post) structured within single-member districts tend to favor a two-party system.”

If we go to more ranked choice voting, multi-member districts, etc. then maybe third parties have a better chance. But again political scientists have been having a real reckoning of conventional wisdom since trump so you may be right on this one. But the American status quo is very structurally weighted toward two parties.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4531 posts
Fri Jan-28-22 04:50 PM

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12. "Again, I fully agree with everything you are saying"
In response to Reply # 3


          


But neither of your posts outline a path to win elections.

We can agree all day about the fucked up system, broken institutions, and the incompetence/corruption of Democrats.

All day.


But a 3rd party is a waste. Is it shitty? Of course. But its true.

Your post actually outlines why that is the case.


I think the only way to shock the system at all would be mass strikes/boycotts.


But we aren't ready for that. Cant even talk bad about Joe without being called a bro on one hand.


Purity politics and horse shoe shit on the other.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
131736 posts
Tue Feb-08-22 08:28 AM

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38. "because there is none"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

>But neither of your posts outline a path to win elections.

as long as the Democrats insist on backing center-right and "fauxgressive" candidates who aren't even so much as bog standard liberal so they can keep their Vanilla Republican scions in power?

there is no path to win elections. might be able to get away with that scam in states that are "Blue" but as we've seen recently in California and New York, All-Blue can still lead to Some Poo.

New York has gone from Cuomo (a disaster) to Hochul, who in policy, seems every bit as bad if not worse. She is merely (as far as we know) not a sex pest like Cuomo is allegedly.

And elected unscrupulous Negroes like Byron Brown and Eric Adams as mayors of notable cities.

It gets worse when you consider the complete drop of the ball the Biden Admin and Congress has made to make the act of voting secure in the places where it is most threatened.

>I think the only way to shock the system at all would be mass
>strikes/boycotts.

the road through change will be through organized labor. thankfully, things are progressing a more positive direction thereabouts.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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Walleye
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Tue Feb-08-22 08:39 AM

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39. "*nods furiously*"
In response to Reply # 38


          

>the road through change will be through organized labor.
>thankfully, things are progressing a more positive direction
>thereabouts.

Working people have a chance for real power - but we have to organize and take it. This is a wild period for the labor movement, which is really down by numbers and didn't experience enough growth from the past few months of action.

But unions proving they can deliver material success now that the headlines are there may do a lot of good. If decline in trust of liberal institutions is what's fueling the success of some of these right-wing charlatans trying to take advantage of that dynamic, the small bit of good news is that people are still willing to trust something.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
13977 posts
Fri Jan-28-22 03:24 AM

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5. "how do you amass political power without amassing political power?"
In response to Reply # 1
Fri Jan-28-22 03:26 AM by Reeq

  

          

these people are running in democratic primaries where the winner is chosen by democratic voters.

when people talk about the democratic establishment...they conveniently forget that it includes the people that consistently show up to the ballot box to establish them.

its like folks who blamed a bernie sc primary loss on the establishment and black grandmoms are just sitting there waving their church fans like huh.

there just aint a bunch of anti-democrat democrats lol. especially among those motivated to show up in a primary in the spring.

its just a weird way to do politics if you actually intend to win.

i thought a high profile drubbing and round rejection in 2020 would be a wakeup call. but i guess not.

and its not even all progressives since there are a ton of pragmatic folks that successfully campaign on coalition politics to make progressive headway. but *this* particular brand is goofy. especially in large states with composite electorates where everyone isnt in line with every one of your stances.

its a really easy thing to fix if folks just use their head a bit.

------

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16354 posts
Fri Jan-28-22 11:06 AM

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6. "You refer to AOC as 'my boo'"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Are you reducing her to her physical attractiveness...
... because you obviously don't agree with her as a politician...

A Bernie Bro post in 2022...is serious?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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47238 posts
Fri Jan-28-22 11:44 AM

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7. "I don't under the "Dems Suck" strategy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And then complain when you lose, "how come the Dems didn't support me?"

You can't run against the "machine", and then complain when the machine doesn't support you.

Tht's should be common sense. I would go even further and say, you can't run against the machine, and not expect the machine to organize and run AGAINST you.

Bin is right, there are structural problems (i.e., two party system) that sucks and hurts the country. That should be fixed (I disagree with the idea it always has to be this way).

What doesn't make any sense to me, is trying to fix it by...just running a campaign like everyone else, but just being more bombastic agressive/ scorch earth. A lot of these progressives don't really want to overturn the system, they just want a seat at the table.


I think the way to overturn the system isn't a third party or MORE progressive candidates. I think it would be a caucus whose main, no, only issue is fixing the structural problems with the system. It's a caucus that will have extreme right wing and progressives under the same tent. And that's the truly radical part that will take a long time to happen. And I am not talking a coalition of centrist from left and right, but a coalition that has left, right and center that all agree on one thing, the system doesn't work.

That I don't see happening any time soon as we become soo fragmented and can live so comfortably in our own echo chambers. So in the mean time the country will stay divided 50/50, we will trade offices after few years and a small group in the middle will be able to call all the shots.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Tw3nty
Member since Jan 02nd 2007
8466 posts
Fri Feb-04-22 01:23 AM

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16. "I worked for Bernie in 2016"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I could never figure out why they didn't understand you can bite the hand that feeds you. When it was clear Bernie was gonna lose to Hillary everyone was hellbent on actually sabotaging Hillary and not working to prevent Trump. Only the black people (minus Bree) had the balls to speak up and say we had bigger fish to fry than Hillary.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  

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Vex_id
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65313 posts
Fri Feb-04-22 11:22 AM

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18. "in what capacity? "
In response to Reply # 16


          

When it was clear Bernie was
>gonna lose to Hillary everyone was hellbent on actually
>sabotaging Hillary and not working to prevent Trump. Only the
>black people (minus Bree) had the balls to speak up and say we
>had bigger fish to fry than Hillary.

lol at "everyone" -- by "everyone" do you mean a tiny % of Bernie supporters?

There was excellent data done on this - and your above claim was flatly debunked. In fact, there were more Hillary supporters in 2008 who defected and refused to support/vote Obama than there were Sanders supporters in 2016 who refused to support/vote Hillary -- and this is despite the fact that there was actual foul play in the 2016 primary - unlike in 2008.

A far cry from "everyone was hellbent on sabotaging Hillary" lol.



-->

  

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makaveli
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15795 posts
Fri Feb-04-22 11:55 AM

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20. "Bree is insufferable"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Vex_id
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Fri Feb-04-22 12:22 PM

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22. "how so? It's interesting how Black women like Briahna"
In response to Reply # 20
Fri Feb-04-22 12:23 PM by Vex_id

          

and Nina Turner get smeared by conventional circles - particularly by types like Jason Johnson of MSNBC who referred to Briahna as a "misfit black girl" on the air:

https://newsone.com/playlist/misfit-black-girls-latest-misogynoir-attack-aims-at-bernie-supporters/

Incidentally, Johnson also tried to check Nina Turner for referring to Bloomberg as an oligarch (despite the fact that he's a textbook oligarch by all accepted definitions):

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/msnbc-contributor-clashes-with-bernie-campaign-co-chair-nina-turner-after-she-blasts-bloomberg-as-an-oligarch/

Why do so many feel the need to disparage these women (in order to defend people like Mike Bloomberg and Hillary Clinton, *at that*?) And then - after all this smearing and character assassination - you expect them to have some kind of undying allegiance to Clinton Democrats?

Get real.

-->

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Fri Jan-28-22 12:02 PM

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8. "From a centrist dickhead? No thanks."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...You bash Progressives on this board every single chance you get ..FOH



< Live Mixshow - Thurs 10PM/EST >
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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
73411 posts
Fri Jan-28-22 12:08 PM

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9. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Reeq out here desperate to bash Bernie

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Tw3nty
Member since Jan 02nd 2007
8466 posts
Fri Feb-04-22 01:24 AM

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17. "Bernie is trash tho....nm"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
307 posts
Fri Jan-28-22 03:45 PM

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11. "^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This times a million (nm)"
In response to Reply # 8


          

  

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Doomdata21
Member since Jul 21st 2002
1169 posts
Fri Jan-28-22 12:42 PM

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10. "I'll bite"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'll try to keep it short.

I think the strategy is to hit the "Corporate Democratic Machine" with policy. Policy policy policy. As voters see that the CDM is more about placating corporate interests than addressing their real issues, they will shift and vote for their issues(progressive by and large).

Fetterman is not a perfect candidate. I don't think we have that luxury at this stage, but if he will get in there and vote for the right policies, then I'll take it.

Nina lost in Ohio because they marshalled all the democratic party resources against her(Clinton endorsement for challenger), similar to Bernie in 2020. They fight for their CDM folks hard when it looks like the peoples' interests will get a champion.

We continue to fight because we will move further right if no one does.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
40528 posts
Fri Jan-28-22 07:43 PM

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13. "They need to get better at lying"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jan-28-22 07:54 PM by Adwhizz

  

          

If you come right out and say you're going to do shit that costs the wrong people money, you're immediately going to get a bunch of corporate donors pumping money into candidates and ads to keep you out of office, and most mainstream new outlets will call a radial/un-electable


"Moderate" Democrats say they're going to do a bunch of shit to help their voters to get elected and then find ways to not get it done, Progressive need to start doing the opposite*





























*That strategy would probably only work once, and you'd immediately lose all Big Money donors the next time you're up for election

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Feb-03-22 07:35 PM

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14. "is it more on the establishment to get their shit together tho?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I just watched the mayor of LA (biden ambassador nominee) use "I held my breath for photos" as an excuse for being photographed maskless at the Rams game (Gov Newsom was also there in maskless photos). He answered this AT a press conf at Sofi so he knew he'd be asked this question. this was his prepared answer lol

yes it's a huge nothingburger that will literally affect no one, and Garcetti could have just let it go and took his lumps, and we'd have forgotten about it by the weekend, but he couldn't do that so now he's turned himself into fucking meme.

but from Newsom going to fancy dinners to Nancy needing her hair did, to Kente cloths, to dna tests to prove my .001% native americanness, when did dems get so terrible at this? And whatever the things that they are doing correctly, when did they get so bad at communicating it? Yeah, alot of these things are inconsequential with disproportionate political cost, esp as opposed to say, Ted Cruz literally fleeing his state while it was in crisis, and only getting dragged on twitter a few days for it... but it's not like D's are free of actual corruption

So while i agree with your sentiment that relying on sure losers will just make things worse, how much of this is just on "the establishment" to do better? And how? I'm not really someone that thinks they need to veer more left but how do they veer less awful? they can't just keep getting by on being the least bad option.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4531 posts
Fri Feb-04-22 12:13 PM

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21. "I think you nailed what dude is trying to do"
In response to Reply # 14


          

>I just watched the mayor of LA (biden ambassador nominee) use
>"I held my breath for photos" as an excuse for being
>photographed maskless at the Rams game (Gov Newsom was also
>there in maskless photos). He answered this AT a press conf at
>Sofi so he knew he'd be asked this question. this was his
>prepared answer lol
>
>yes it's a huge nothingburger that will literally affect no
>one, and Garcetti could have just let it go and took his
>lumps, and we'd have forgotten about it by the weekend, but he
>couldn't do that so now he's turned himself into fucking meme.
>
>
>but from Newsom going to fancy dinners to Nancy needing her
>hair did, to Kente cloths, to dna tests to prove my .001%
>native americanness, when did dems get so terrible at this?
>And whatever the things that they are doing correctly, when
>did they get so bad at communicating it? Yeah, alot of these
>things are inconsequential with disproportionate political
>cost, esp as opposed to say, Ted Cruz literally fleeing his
>state while it was in crisis, and only getting dragged on
>twitter a few days for it... but it's not like D's are free of
>actual corruption
>
>So while i agree with your sentiment that relying on sure
>losers will just make things worse, how much of this is just
>on "the establishment" to do better? And how? I'm not really
>someone that thinks they need to veer more left but how do
>they veer less awful? they can't just keep getting by on being
>the least bad option.
>

Just make everything else looks so much worse in comparison, and refuse to talk about actual Democrat failures....

Rather than have an honest discussion about how Democrats/the Biden admin have not met the moment by any stretch of the imagination....


He'd rather create a new thread about progressives.

Or blame the pandemic still raging entirely on the unvaxxed.

Or blame voters for the SC situation.

etc


Type of shit is why folks on here call him an op. Shell game shit.


I'm down to talk about the faults of the Bernie brand of progressive. Down to criticize anti-science, selfish idiots who wont' get vaxxed. Etc


But this admin has failed left and right. You have to be on the payroll or on some straight up politics team agenda blind loyalty bullshit to not see or admit it.



And yeah the consultants are garbage but these "leaders" are actually making these choices.


It wasn't a consultant officiating a billionaire's wedding draped in gold, it was Nancy.

It wasn't a consultant screaming free market!...it was Nancy.

It wasn't a consultant telling everyone to take their masks off cuz you won't get/spread COVID if vaxxed...it was Joe.

It wasn't a consultant renewing Trump's awful border policies, it was Joe.

Where's the rage?


Crazy that certain dudes on here not only hold progressives, but also the gotdamned GOP, to a higher standard than their own team.

Pandemic raging. Attempted coup still ongoing. Nothing on immigration. Actually, continued Trump policies. Kids still in cages, etc. Democrat "leaders" out here getting caught being hypocrites. The list goes on.

Shit in real life that is happening right fucking now that is actually hurting people...

But "look over here at unvaxxed/progressives/etc"

SMH disappointing

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri Feb-04-22 02:42 PM

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25. "I appreciate reeq. my reply wasn't really about him"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

and i usually agree with him on how delusional some of the bernieverse is in terms of actually winning elections.

but i feel what you're saying on criticisms only going in that direction

the Dem establishment seems to have no real message right now, and nothing to put up there for the next cycle except we're not as bad as these people, and we would have gotten more done if if wasn't for X.

Republican's message right now seems to be leave people the fuck alone. while i recognize there's a lot of bullshit and hyporcicy in them saying it, its probably going to play pretty well with an exhausted frustrated electorate

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4531 posts
Sat Feb-05-22 12:41 AM

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27. "RE: I appreciate reeq. my reply wasn't really about him"
In response to Reply # 25
Sat Feb-05-22 12:47 AM by Stadiq

          

>and i usually agree with him on how delusional some of the
>bernieverse is in terms of actually winning elections.

I agree with him here too. And I appreciate a lot of knowledge he has dropped.

But when the criticism goes everywhere but to the home team I get aggy.

I can't take hypocrites.
>
>but i feel what you're saying on criticisms only going in that
>direction

Yup

>
>the Dem establishment seems to have no real message right now,
>and nothing to put up there for the next cycle except we're
>not as bad as these people, and we would have gotten more done
>if if wasn't for X.

Exactly and a lot of us already lived through the last Democratic admin doing the same shit.

I, for one, hoped/thought a wannabe dictator and attempted coup would motivate motherfuckers.

Instead it is more of the same Democrat bullshit, that is actually looking worse than ever in context.

>
>Republican's message right now seems to be leave people the
>fuck alone. while i recognize there's a lot of bullshit and
>hyporcicy in them saying it, its probably going to play pretty
>well with an exhausted frustrated electorate
>

Which is insane because Democrats have a case to make on some successes, more work to do, several challenges facing America thanks to the GOP, and that the other side ATTEMPTED TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT.


Instead, we get jobs report, the stock market, keep schools open, and take off your masks.

While maintaining Trump policies, getting their hair blown out, officiating billionaire weddings, all that shit.


And their loyal army wants us to worry more about any other group.

  

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Tw3nty
Member since Jan 02nd 2007
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Fri Feb-04-22 01:19 AM

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15. "The whole progressive movement is a scam"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Taking the all-or-nothing approach every time means you're gonna get nothing every time. That's why you never see any accomplishments under their belt. Take the most extreme route to get something done is basically sayings, you're not gonna do anything.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Fri Feb-04-22 12:42 PM

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23. "Dems control everything and progressives are the scam? "
In response to Reply # 15


          

lmao

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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24. ""Scam" would seem to imply people are making money"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

off of their current actions/designating themselves as Progressives

There's way more money to be made in being a "Moderate"/"Centrist" Democract and staying in the good graces of corporate donors by not rocking the boat

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Feb-04-22 04:40 PM

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26. "moderates are expected to win with the money they raise tho."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

a lot of progressives lead their primary races in fundraising...still end up tanking and blowing leads...then blame it on the dnc/establishment...but then simultaneously brag that they successfully pushed the eventual nominee left...so they can continue to milk the 'victory' for attention/money in the future.

theres def a cottage industry of 'progressive' grifters that are just looking to monetize their twitter/youtube followings with shitty campaigns.

just look at the head of tyt, nomiki konst, nina turner, andrew yang, etc.

------

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
4431 posts
Sat Feb-05-22 11:14 AM

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30. "nina turner grifter ?"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

nah

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Vex_id
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31. "This is *very* telling:"
In response to Reply # 26


          


>theres def a cottage industry of 'progressive' grifters that
>are just looking to monetize their twitter/youtube followings
>with shitty campaigns.
>
>just look at the head of tyt, nomiki konst, nina turner,
>andrew yang, etc.

You're more worried/critical about a so-called cottage industry of "progressive grifters" on YouTube than you are the oligarchical corporate lobbying stranglehold that controls and corrupts the Democratic party (as well as the Republican party, of course, but we all know that).

Telling AF.


-->

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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32. "Ok. and what are their large $$ Donors expecting them to"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

do in return for that money?

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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will_5198
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33. "lol, is this real? "
In response to Reply # 26


          

Amy McGrath and Jaime Harrison literally threw $200 million into a fireplace last cycle

--------

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
131736 posts
Tue Feb-08-22 12:24 AM

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37. "wrong. the 'moderate' movement is the real scam"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

it's been going on since at least the '80s and "winning" in tightly gerrymandered districts, but getting asses kicked statewide and for many federal races.

Democrats being legitimate liberals are being pushed out of the party, in favor of more CIA, "Biden Democrat" types.


I'll tap back in later this year, and if I'm right, I'm dunking on everyone like Jarrett Allen.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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Vex_id
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19. "This had potential - but your approach is disingenuous "
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's interesting how 100% of the onus is on the progressive base of the party - and zero responsibility on party leaders who actually hold power. This deliberate approach to marginalize key factions of the party has done more damage to unity than any fringe progressive candidate ever could.

If you want to scapegoat and draw attention away from the real reasons why Republicans have dominated the courts and continue to out-maneuver Democrats on a national scale - have fun with it - but don't act like you're here having a "serious discussion about the Progressive approach."

-->

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
31287 posts
Sat Feb-05-22 10:39 AM

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28. "It becomes dangerous when they veer into foreign policy too"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I’ve long ago gave up talking doMestic policy with this crowd. It morphs into something completely diff when they start giving a shit about world news.

Ana Kasparian, Kyle kulinski and these other influencer bros openly questioning our ties to NATO right now. Talking as if WE are the aggressors here

Jacobin mag basically running with Russian agitprop right now: https://jacobinmag.com/2021/12/united-states-russia-war-ukraine

ISIS leader detonated a suicide bomb blowing up his family? Let’s run with this:
https://twitter.com/kylekulinski/status/1489222335676784643?s=21

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sat Feb-05-22 10:48 AM

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29. "cosplay opposition."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

these people dont make any money if they dont play into the 'resistance' brand.

they were just as pissed about the blockbuster jobs report that dropped yesterday as republicans and fox news were.

------

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon Feb-07-22 04:57 PM

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34. "Yep. Somehow they’re experts on every story too "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

People in Washington either specialize in one or the other (domestic vs intl). These influencer bros go from experts on economic policy to intl relations.


They’ve made a choice to do this when some of them actually have journalism backgrounds. and that does really bother me because of the influence they have with young voters.




>these people dont make any money if they dont play into the
>'resistance' brand.
>
>they were just as pissed about the blockbuster jobs report
>that dropped yesterday as republicans and fox news were.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2156 posts
Mon Feb-07-22 07:24 PM

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35. "Not a fan of Ana,Kyle,Jacobin,or Putin, but what exactly is the problem "
In response to Reply # 28
Mon Feb-07-22 07:24 PM by kfine

          

with that article you link, apart from your disagreement?? The history and context laid out by the author is correct, and you're calling it agitprop but socialism isn't mentioned once talk more of promoted throughout the entire piece.

Furthermore, it was published late Dec 2021 and since then the current US admin has deployed thousands more troops to the region plus adopted a posture so incendiary that the pres of Ukraine himself has asked the West to chill lol (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/28/ukraine-russia-us-nato-putin-macron/, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60174684). This would suggest that the author's concerns/predictions about where American saber-rattling could lead are quite valid.

If you support war, you could just say that. A journalist explaining (and applying a critical lens to) historical facts unflattering to the US isn't de facto socialist propaganda tho.



>
>Ana Kasparian, Kyle kulinski and these other influencer bros
>openly questioning our ties to NATO right now. Talking as if
>WE are the aggressors here
>
>Jacobin mag basically running with Russian agitprop right now:
>https://jacobinmag.com/2021/12/united-states-russia-war-ukraine
>

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
31287 posts
Tue Feb-08-22 09:54 AM

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40. "Because our other adversaries are watching. Very Closely "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

China will be emboldened to attack Taiwan. And Don’t get me started on Iran

We should also stand with (real) democratic countries fighting for their sovereignty. They have a right to join us and our NATO Allie’s if they want to. I also personally do not want Ukraine to go the way of Belarus and Lukashenko.

I do not support war. That’s ridiculous. But I understand the global hegemony and the stakes at play here.

To the TYT Intercept crowd, America will always be in the wrong I guess.

Jacobin is a fucking joke to serious politicos.



>with that article you link, apart from your disagreement??
>The history and context laid out by the author is correct, and
>you're calling it agitprop but socialism isn't mentioned once
>talk more of promoted throughout the entire piece.
>
>Furthermore, it was published late Dec 2021 and since then the
>current US admin has deployed thousands more troops to the
>region plus adopted a posture so incendiary that the pres of
>Ukraine himself has asked the West to chill lol
>(https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/28/ukraine-russia-us-nato-putin-macron/,
>https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60174684). This would
>suggest that the author's concerns/predictions about where
>American saber-rattling could lead are quite valid.
>
>If you support war, you could just say that. A journalist
>explaining (and applying a critical lens to) historical facts
>unflattering to the US isn't de facto socialist propaganda
>tho.
>
>
>
>>
>>Ana Kasparian, Kyle kulinski and these other influencer
>bros
>>openly questioning our ties to NATO right now. Talking as
>if
>>WE are the aggressors here
>>
>>Jacobin mag basically running with Russian agitprop right
>now:
>>https://jacobinmag.com/2021/12/united-states-russia-war-ukraine
>>
>

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
31287 posts
Fri May-20-22 08:38 AM

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47. "just want to reiterate everyhing i said pre-invasion still applies"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

actually it applies more so now

and the stakes are EVEN higher

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Tue Feb-08-22 12:22 AM

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36. "pessimistic about Nina round 2, I think Fetterman wins in PA"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-08-22 12:25 AM by Dr Claw

  

          

Conor Lamb is another "Joe Biden" type dude, people ain't really trying to hear that shit after the Biden presidency took a giant dump in the middle of Washington. Dr. Oz is a joke and has none of the "Trump" charisma. Fetterman is sweeping the field.

Shontel Brown is an empty suit and the kind of "fatback and biscuits" merchant disciple I despise. I've been in the room with her several times. now that I've a complete appraisal of that work, if it happens again, she's going to hear it.

However, unless the composition of OH-11 has changed enough to take them upper-middle class burbs outta the picture and add some more west side Clevelanders, I can't see Nina getting in there unless no one votes in that race.


the moral of the story is that, if there's a real threat from the left, the Democratic Party will swoop in with dirty money sources and collude with Republicans to get them out of that paint. Rinse and repeat. There has been tons of writing on this.

Embrace Fetterman, he's the only chance for PA to wrest a Senate seat from the Republicans. Conor Lamb will lose to Oz or whoever the GOP embraces.

If you haven't noticed, the Democratic Party has completely fucked off the concerns of Black voters in recent times. only the die hard Black "White Moderates" are gonna ride. Not locking down voting rights and laughing in the face of everything else the Black organizers in 2020 were working for is going to have disastrous results. Writing on the wall. The Black poltiical class has been too pussy and basically been running interference for their cracka-ass cracka sugar daddies. L for them

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu May-19-22 01:24 PM

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41. "Briahna defending Tucker Carlson1?!?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ok, I have not been a fan of hers, but has this been something she been doing?! What is this ish?!?!


https://twitter.com/Inkaino/status/1527115618067030016


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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makaveli
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15795 posts
Thu May-19-22 01:48 PM

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42. "She’s insufferable "
In response to Reply # 41
Thu May-19-22 01:49 PM by makaveli

  

          

I said that before on here and someone got mad at me, I wonder if they have changed their mind.

Edit never mind I see it now, shout out to Vex.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu May-19-22 02:22 PM

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43. "But this is a new turn for her right?!?!"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
31287 posts
Fri May-20-22 08:37 AM

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46. "I am shocked"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6575 posts
Fri May-20-22 11:51 AM

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51. "This is a 18 minute long segment. Did you watch all of it?"
In response to Reply # 41


          

Are those hand picked 25 second clips gonna give you context?

Confirmation bias is a mf. You gotta fight it if you dont want to be out here flailing your arms over nothing.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Castro
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Thu May-19-22 03:29 PM

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44. "Bernie's approach is not progressive. Progression doesn't look"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

like an Old white man insisting he the sole voice of progression. And that has been Bernie's steez since the 70s.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Doomdata21
Member since Jul 21st 2002
1169 posts
Fri May-20-22 07:59 AM

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45. "When did he insist this?"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

He seems more policy oriented than anything.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15994 posts
Fri May-20-22 09:22 AM

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48. "the moderates control everything. Even the progressives."
In response to Reply # 0


          

How is that working out currently?

  

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Doomdata21
Member since Jul 21st 2002
1169 posts
Fri May-20-22 09:34 AM

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49. "I think this idea of immediate gratification is a dream."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

The idea, I think, is to reach a threshold where these progressive ideas cause a sea change and we start to see a momentum shift. We then will see a slide down the hill of progressivism into a more powerful role in government. We're seeing a lot of resistance but I also think we're in the beginning of this sea change. As the Republicans move further right, it's only natural that Pro-worker, pro-abortion, etc... candidates get more support. The Democratic moderate will be pushed left as they distance themselves from Republican (far right) ideas. We're seeing this in real-time.

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Fri May-20-22 09:47 AM

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50. "The democrat moderates in office are "
In response to Reply # 49


          

FAR more ideologically opposed to progressive political positions that conservative/right wing ideals.
So nah, I don't see that political shift happens absent direct action/external pressure.
These people are making millions being corporate whores. They're not giving that up, any time soon.

  

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