*sigh*.

my youngest son (23 yo). we been having issues for a while. long story short, he been messing up and adamantly refuses help or to do anything to help himself.

last straw was on tuesday, he came home and microwaved some pee (while me and my wife were talking in the kitchen). he did it real slick. just came in, popped it in there. and left w/o saying nothing. (he was supposed to meet his PO that afternoon.

came back later that night. took a shit. changed clothes. came in the kitchen and put something in the refrigerator. left. i was working or on a call or something. wife was in the other room watching tv. we thought about it. looked at each other. hell naw.

she opens the fridge: two bottles of somebody else's piss. she calls him up (he already on the highway by now). tells him if he wants that shit its in a trash bag in the garage.

he comes back about 45 min later. i'm doing my best to be calm but i am HOT. he digs through the trash to get the bottle. i tell him, "that's it. you gotta go."

he's looking at me surprised, but calm.

i said, that was incredibly disrespectful what you did, since we talked yesterday and we both told you that we would NOT be helping you cheat the test, and emphatically that you wasn't storing that shit here. he's like, "i thought y'all meant Y'ALL wouldn't give me any urine, not that i couldn't put somebody else's there". i didn't dignify that shit w/ a response.

get what you need now. give me your key. and text me later in the week to arrange to pick up the rest of everything you want. we not doing it in dribs and drabs.

so he goes upstairs for about 15-20 min, packs up 2 or 3 small bags. come downstairs. by this time i put my mask on. he wants to talk. the net is that i reiterated that he was only here as long as he was trying to get himself together. go.

i'm fucking tired, y'all.



peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

I have nothing to add, except that you wouldn't be that tired if you hadn't already exhausted your other options. I felt worn out on your behalf. Sorry that your family has to go through this.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

although i think we may need to go frfr.

>I have nothing to add, except that you wouldn't be that tired
>if you hadn't already exhausted your other options. I felt
>worn out on your behalf. Sorry that your family has to go
>through this.

this ain't the half. these last 9 years? man.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

I think everyone CAN benefit from the RIGHT kind of therapy, so hopefully you & your fam find something that works for you.

It sounds like you're doing your best to have your son's back but at a point you realize he's now a grown man & has to stand on his own two.

23 is old enough to be held responsible for your actions, but also young enough that he has time to turn things around. Everyone's on their own schedule.

Sending love to you & your fam

___________________________
He has the confidence of Vernon Maxwell on a yayo binge.

http://www.2amDonuts.bandcamp.com

my stepson got my baby mom's house raided. i don't know where he is but he can't stay at her house

don't need no cops running up in my spot. don't need him burning bridges with a plug like he's done with every other personal relationship in his life. or a customer or rival following him home.

can't do it no more.

>my stepson got my baby mom's house raided. i don't know where
>he is but he can't stay at here. house
>
>

damn. that's messed up.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

raised the boy like he was my own since he was like 5. His mom and the rest of her side is from Rural VA. we live in Baltimore.

His mom caught him the house with baggies and shit like that and his mom sent him to live with his grandparents in rural VA before the pandemic. Moving way too fast to be in Baltimore doing that shit.

He promised he'd get his shit together. His mom let him come back up. And now her house got raided. Put my 12 yo daughter in handcuffs. Cops was mad disrespectful.

Same exact charges. The baggies and blunt guts and goofy shit like that is making them go for a felony charge. To shoot him some bail, he was trying to work up Amazon before all that shit happened. Shit is a wrap now cause it comes up on his record.

I don't have any answers either but if you need to vent you already know

>raised the boy like he was my own since he was like 5. His
>mom and the rest of her side is from Rural VA. we live in
>Baltimore.

city or county? (not like it make a diff these days. my wife from bmore. talking to her uncle on the phone shit sound like lebanon now). and it was always wild.


>
>His mom caught him the house with baggies and shit like that
>and his mom sent him to live with his grandparents in rural VA
>before the pandemic. Moving way too fast to be in Baltimore
>doing that shit.

right. and bmore NOT the place to be caught lacking, being a starter G, or halfway in halfway out. smh.

>
>He promised he'd get his shit together. His mom let him come
>back up. And now her house got raided. Put my 12 yo daughter
>in handcuffs. Cops was mad disrespectful.

i am so heated for you. it's not just the 'what happened', but the 'what could have happened'. and now your baby girl got real trauma.

big difference is that the cops in our situation were uncharacteristically nice. my son prolly threw on all the charm, and hit them w/ the hard yessir, no sir shit. he really got the benefit of the doubt. story could be different if he got the off the rack Black suspect treatment.

>
>Same exact charges. The baggies and blunt guts and goofy shit
>like that is making them go for a felony charge. To shoot him
>some bail, he was trying to work up Amazon before all that
>shit happened. Shit is a wrap now cause it comes up on his
>record.

my son got on at Amazon *after* his case. he had a public defender. the prosecutor wasn't too gung ho, and let him cop to a misdemeanor possession w/ intent even though the charge was a felony. (borderline, but still).

all that shit was on his record and amz took him anyway. your son may have a chance. however, my son messed it up and i'm pretty sure he's fired from there now. been trying to tell him walmart distribution center hiring. none of them warehouses too particular right now.

>
>I don't have any answers either but if you need to vent you
>already know

same same. i'm very sorry for your situation, and similarly hope and pray that it works out for the best for all parties. thanks for sharing that, b/c you didn't have to. but not on some misery loves company, but just on some real shit, it's comforting to know we not the only ones going through it.

one of my boys from home - best friend growing up, is a transit cop in nj. his first wife had a kid when they started seeing each other. then they had a son and daughter together. i don't know if he formally adopted the oldest boy, but he raised him as his own, even after they split.

his son by birth (namesake) is the one that ended up wilding out. worse than our respective kids have done. and on some multiple strike ish. his oldest son (not by birth) walked the straight and narrow.

nature, nurture, circumstance... at the end of the day, a whole lot comes down to individual choices made. any of my kids could have drawn this straw.

stay up!


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

up'.

blahblahblah.

sergeant gets on, proceeds to tell me that my son got pulled b/c he was crossing center lines. speeding. they pull him over and the car is LOUD.

my son (jj1) got weed in the car. it's bagged. money. scales. all in the same damn bag.

cop: "looks like around 1.5 oz, which is felony possession w/ intent, based on the scales, it's bagged up, etc".

me: *sigh*

cop: he's very respectful and i could tell he wasn't raised up in this. the way he conducted himself, and everything. it's not usual for me to call a parent in this situation.

me: i really appreciate that. thank you very much. no, he definitely wasn't raised like this and we've been very clear that this isn't something he should ever be messing with.

cop: yeah. these rural counties, this is actually very dangerous. in the last couple of years, i been seeing more people getting shot and killed over weed than for coke or heroin or anything. it's crazy. i can also tell he's new to it because he had the weed and the money and the scales all in the same place. and no gun. and he lives in (our town) and he's all the way over here? dealers don't like people from out of town selling on their turf. that's a good way to get robbed or worse.

me: i can imagine.

he really caught the benefit of the doubt. yeah, i'm staunchly in favor of legalization, but there was absolutely no reason for my son to be out here selling, let alone playing like he about that life.

his case was continued a couple of times. came up in may. they hit him w/ a deal for 1 yr probation and drop to a misdemeanor. they didn't charge him with DUI, speeding, reckless endangerment or any of that. didn't pile on.

i told him it was a combination of general attitudes about weed, him being a first time offender, and looking out. but make no mistake, probation is dangerous. now EVERYthing you do can potentially get you hemmed up. and if you don't comply, it's possible that they can reinstate the F.

terms were pretty simple / standard. supervised probation, screening, and after completion of counseling, it would flip to unsupervised. should have been light work.



peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

---
Love,
Nopayne

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

_______________________________________

he would get locked up if he failed the 4th or 5th, but prolly the 4th.

this is when he was floating the idea of storing somebody's piss here and (really asking if WE would give him some. b/c the kid he normally gets it from, his parents said he was in TN for a couple weeks. wtf??)

he was like, i got a mtg w/ my po tomorrow, that's the only reason i'm asking y'all. i know it's a lot.

i said the time to do something about that was around 45 days ago. none of this shit is new.




peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

complying.

i tried to talk through it w/ him. but he has undiagnosed mental health issues. won't seek or accept treatment. but more than that he is manipulative and never, ever, even to the point of absurdity, takes responsibilities for his own actions. (hence the incredulity, like, you're mad that i put somebody else's piss in the fridge and the microwave??)

he's adopted (my youngest three are, including my middle daughter, who is his biological sister (same mom as him, who is bi-polar and been in and out of jail for life) and my youngest daughter.

he been wilding out, more or less, since he turned 18. we felt like he felt some kind of way about being the first of our adopted kids (we never treated them different, we've cut off friends and even family who wouldn't do the same) out of the gate. so we felt like he was testing our love.

he had the ability to play ball in college, but not the heart and not the mental. i coached him for years and tried to help him get to where he wanted to be. aau. on his homeschool team, etc. took him to camps. he'd find a way to come up small when it mattered, and then spin a story after the fact. last straw with me on the hoop dreams was when we were talking about him going somewhere to walk on. he made it clear he had zero interest in doing school. i'm like, i been telling you since 8th grade that you needed to maximize all that ish if you wanted to hoop in college -- on court, but also full qualifying SATs, etc.

he countered by saying he cheated throughout all of h.s. (we homeschooled him since 4th grade). what he would have had to do to cheat was more work than doing the work. that was fucked up and hurtful to me and especially my wife. (imagine teaching 5 kids, 5 different lesson plans, tailored curricula and methods to their learning styles, etc).

so i was like, i ain't paying for you to go D3 (private school) for 10k a year for you to not go to class and fuck up my money. very simple. he went a different route, starting a business, doing sports training. cool. we supported him in that. helped him get business cards, my oldest daughter did the logo... we supported him in his camps, sent him leads, all that.

my oldest three went to college. so we were like, okay, if you don't go to college, we'll support you in this hustle... he reclassed so he didn't graduate high school till 19, so it's been about 3 and a half years of this.

he got approved (somehow) for a fairly new car. high payment. we told him not to do that, b/c he wasn't working in a way where he had regular, high income. but he know best. he had had too many accidents (between his former gf's car and his car) to the point where we were like, you definitely not going on our insurance.

... anyway, fast forward. after getting arrested he said he smokes weed every day. (we knew he smoked. not that much. but he also would be very sporadic, and come home every couple of days or so). preferred working 3rd shift. so always polarized on times.

complicated last year b/c out of the whole fam, he the only one that would not get vaccinated. i told him he needed to not be around. and he needed to mask up. tried logic. reason. he been on that conspiracy shit. and scared of needles. but always threatening suicide, coincidentally after we are having a conversation about him being responsible and doing adult shit.

i've given him phone numbers for therapists and all kindsa shit. always excuses for why he won't call, be seen. you're an adult in the eyes of the law. i can't do for you what you won't do for yourself.

anyway, he exhibits signs of bipolar. like damn near all. after he got arrested i talked w/ him and was saying i wasn't judging him for smoking. shit, my dad smoked up until he died at 72.

but when i looked into it more, it seems the scientific consensus is that weed is *really* bad for someone who is bipolar, and can lead to psychosis.

i explained that back in april and may.

at the very least, you got to chill for at least a few months until you get off of probabation.

he's like, i ain't stopping. i told him if he didn't comply w/ the parole terms he was out. i do NOT like cops at all. and they can come in the crib at any damn time b/c of shit that he did? that's already a whole lot. and my other son, who graduated college last summer (and still looking for a job job) don't need some cop mistaking him for his knucklehead brother. very first time the PO came to the crib he was asking for somebody by a completely different name. whole nother Black guy. except the one he mistakenly was looking for had weapons charges. wtf.




peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

find time/energy to post and contribute to these boards the way you have in the past upteen years yo???
props and stay up.



"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

was in middle school.

we pulled him halfway through his 8th grade year to homeschool (my oldest daughter finished through public school - she constantly tells us we did the right thing. her peers were getting tased for throwing paper at lunch, and charged with assault for throwing a crayon at a wastebasket that ricocheted off the can and hit the teacher).

but i did a LOT at work (avg 60 hrs. periodically having to fly out on projects). was one of the top technical people in xxx. top in my field in the world for what i did.

- asst coached my son in homeschool bb from 9-12th (white (mostly) league. shady coach. did my best to stay close and involved).
- head coached my middle son in football 8th grade, 11th, 12th grade years
- asst coached my youngest son in bball from 6th - 12th (last two years was w/ an even shadier coach).
- asst coached on 2 of the 4 aau teams he was on
- head coached my middle daughter from 7th grade up through varsity (she was playing varsity from 8th grade)
- asst coached her on a top 32 aau team for 7th-8th, and 8th-9th graders when she was on that circuit
- head coached my youngest daughter, who could have been the best of all of them. but she just loved to play. never had / voiced aspirations to take it anywhere.

- got screwed / pushed out / coup d'etat ed out of coaching for the organization i helped build. last three years i've traveled around 40 min to another city so my youngest could finish out her career there.
- she reclassed to finish up in a non-plague year. graduated h.s. this year.
- she's helping me now coach girls there. 3 or 4 of whom have been there for 3 yrs. most of whom had never touched a ball before. it's fun though.

i gave up writing my monthly newspaper column around 2008. i think i had one last piece in '09. politics was getting too stupid and moving in directions we see currently.

doing my director's job at work. literally. nobody even asks him for anything. leading numerous technical PoCs on the side. wrote a letter to the ceo after the george floyd killing last year that helped spark a whole thing in the company. leading a DE&I group for my SVPs area.

sometimes i need to write it down b/c i forget how much is on my plate.

my oldest son had a business venture / app that could have been really big. he was messing w/ some investors in greenville, nc. they were promising us all kinds of backing, but kept incrementally putting hoops in front of us. we (mostly my son, but i helped a lot) provided over 700 pages of documentation of technical and monetization plans... after a year of jerking us around they went ghost.

in the meantime we had a couple of investors, including my now deceased pop for 30k. a few private investors for around 10k. and were completely stranded 30k from the next checkpoint. but in the meantime my son's partner's mother died (right before he graduated college -- i had to stay on him to get him to finish, and then to get a job in comp sci).

upside to that is he's my son-in-law now.

but yeah. i'm never not busy.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

joking...only because i have to transport a senior citizen somewhere. but man damn.

>complying.
>
>i tried to talk through it w/ him. but he has undiagnosed
>mental health issues. won't seek or accept treatment. but more
>than that he is manipulative and never, ever, even to the
>point of absurdity, takes responsibilities for his own
>actions. (hence the incredulity, like, you're mad that i put
>somebody else's piss in the fridge and the microwave??)
>
>he's adopted (my youngest three are, including my middle
>daughter, who is his biological sister (same mom as him, who
>is bi-polar and been in and out of jail for life) and my
>youngest daughter.
>
>he been wilding out, more or less, since he turned 18. we felt
>like he felt some kind of way about being the first of our
>adopted kids (we never treated them different, we've cut off
>friends and even family who wouldn't do the same) out of the
>gate. so we felt like he was testing our love.
>
>he had the ability to play ball in college, but not the heart
>and not the mental. i coached him for years and tried to help
>him get to where he wanted to be. aau. on his homeschool team,
>etc. took him to camps. he'd find a way to come up small when
>it mattered, and then spin a story after the fact. last straw
>with me on the hoop dreams was when we were talking about him
>going somewhere to walk on. he made it clear he had zero
>interest in doing school. i'm like, i been telling you since
>8th grade that you needed to maximize all that ish if you
>wanted to hoop in college -- on court, but also full
>qualifying SATs, etc.
>
>he countered by saying he cheated throughout all of h.s. (we
>homeschooled him since 4th grade). what he would have had to
>do to cheat was more work than doing the work. that was fucked
>up and hurtful to me and especially my wife. (imagine teaching
>5 kids, 5 different lesson plans, tailored curricula and
>methods to their learning styles, etc).
>
>so i was like, i ain't paying for you to go D3 (private
>school) for 10k a year for you to not go to class and fuck up
>my money. very simple. he went a different route, starting a
>business, doing sports training. cool. we supported him in
>that. helped him get business cards, my oldest daughter did
>the logo... we supported him in his camps, sent him leads, all
>that.
>
>my oldest three went to college. so we were like, okay, if you
>don't go to college, we'll support you in this hustle... he
>reclassed so he didn't graduate high school till 19, so it's
>been about 3 and a half years of this.
>
>he got approved (somehow) for a fairly new car. high payment.
>we told him not to do that, b/c he wasn't working in a way
>where he had regular, high income. but he know best. he had
>had too many accidents (between his former gf's car and his
>car) to the point where we were like, you definitely not going
>on our insurance.
>
>... anyway, fast forward. after getting arrested he said he
>smokes weed every day. (we knew he smoked. not that much. but
>he also would be very sporadic, and come home every couple of
>days or so). preferred working 3rd shift. so always polarized
>on times.
>
>complicated last year b/c out of the whole fam, he the only
>one that would not get vaccinated. i told him he needed to not
>be around. and he needed to mask up. tried logic. reason. he
>been on that conspiracy shit. and scared of needles. but
>always threatening suicide, coincidentally after we are having
>a conversation about him being responsible and doing adult
>shit.
>
>i've given him phone numbers for therapists and all kindsa
>shit. always excuses for why he won't call, be seen. you're an
>adult in the eyes of the law. i can't do for you what you
>won't do for yourself.
>
>anyway, he exhibits signs of bipolar. like damn near all.
>after he got arrested i talked w/ him and was saying i wasn't
>judging him for smoking. shit, my dad smoked up until he died
>at 72.
>
>but when i looked into it more, it seems the scientific
>consensus is that weed is *really* bad for someone who is
>bipolar, and can lead to psychosis.
>
>i explained that back in april and may.
>
>at the very least, you got to chill for at least a few months
>until you get off of probabation.
>
>he's like, i ain't stopping. i told him if he didn't comply w/
>the parole terms he was out. i do NOT like cops at all. and
>they can come in the crib at any damn time b/c of shit that he
>did? that's already a whole lot. and my other son, who
>graduated college last summer (and still looking for a job
>job) don't need some cop mistaking him for his knucklehead
>brother. very first time the PO came to the crib he was asking
>for somebody by a completely different name. whole nother
>Black guy. except the one he mistakenly was looking for had
>weapons charges. wtf.
>
>
>
>
>peace & blessings,
>
>x.
>
>www.twitter.com/poetx
>
>=========================================
>I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
>focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
>
>not having much to show for it. (c) mad

I can't imagine it's easy as a parent to hold love and respect for your children and have them repeatedly devalue that gift.

I can definitely attest to the harms of weed (and other substances) and mental health disorders.

I have a mental health condition, and I used weed as a way to self-medicate around the time of my onset in my early 20's. I don't think weed before your brain is fully formed is a good idea. And certainly not for someone who has a diagnosable brain condition like bipolar disorder.

It did give me a case of psychosis and paranoia, and anxiety. Granted, I was deeply depressed, and the substances were a lifeline. But I wish I had gotten professional treatment at that time rather than try to handle things on my own.

His decisions aren't sound because he's in distress because of his brain chemistry. Unfortunately, many people, like myself, only begin treatment because things really get out of hand. I hope and pray your son discovers something or someone that motivates him to get the help he needs before that point.

He seems like a young man with a lot of potential, and it would be sad to know that he isn't able to realize it.

I know it couldn't have been an easy decision to ask him to leave, but you did the right thing. Our actions have consequences, even when we aren't well. I hope he decides to see he has more to live for.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

>I can't imagine it's easy as a parent to hold love and
>respect for your children and have them repeatedly devalue
>that gift.

that's a really good way to phrase it.

>
>I can definitely attest to the harms of weed (and other
>substances) and mental health disorders.
>
>I have a mental health condition, and I used weed as a way to
>self-medicate around the time of my onset in my early 20's. I
>don't think weed before your brain is fully formed is a good
>idea. And certainly not for someone who has a diagnosable
>brain condition like bipolar disorder.

thank you so much for sharing that with me. the thing is, i have no doubt that he has mental illness of some sort. it also really seems like he has some really serious character issues underneath of it.

did your condition change your character? how you related to people?

he has always been pretty genial and affable. he's a charmer. but he's also hella manipulative and i don't know if how his relationships end up are due to inevitable sabotage, or, in many cases, they were always transactional to be mined for value and then discarded, which would be sociopathic.

>
>It did give me a case of psychosis and paranoia, and anxiety.
>Granted, I was deeply depressed, and the substances were a
>lifeline. But I wish I had gotten professional treatment at
>that time rather than try to handle things on my own.

i'm so glad you eventually did and pray that things continue to work out well for you.


>His decisions aren't sound because he's in distress because of
>his brain chemistry. Unfortunately, many people, like myself,
>only begin treatment because things really get out of hand. I
>hope and pray your son discovers something or someone that
>motivates him to get the help he needs before that point.

right. and we know it's not just a matter of hoping with him. he needs real help. and probably medication. and we know that we can't diagnose him as bipolar. but from reading a lot of resources we can definitely say he acts bipolar-ISH. we've definitely seen the manic episodes, w/ the wide eyes and fast talk and grandiose ideas (often fantastical or divorced from logic). also seen the down periods. reading about the impact of weed on that is actually scary.

>He seems like a young man with a lot of potential, and it
>would be sad to know that he isn't able to realize it.

he actually does have a lot of potential. we're proud of what he's accomplished and have tried to give him every opportunity to succeed. but he is spiraling now. i just pray it's not a death spiral.

>
>I know it couldn't have been an easy decision to ask him to
>leave, but you did the right thing. Our actions have
>consequences, even when we aren't well. I hope he decides to
>see he has more to live for.

when he left the house he said, 'but dad, i'm mentally ill', like it's a get out of jail free card.

i said, 'yeah. i told you that. but have you taken *any* steps to get help? no.' (he missed a court ordered therapy appointment a couple weeks ago. last week was the make up. he said he went, but i can't trust him because he lies about easily verifiable things).

he said, "i'm in therapy for the first time in my life". but he also said he's still working at amazon, when he was on probation a month ago, and said he had used up all of his pto, and has been for the last two weeks, out and about during the times when he's supposed to be at work.

even then as i was telling him he had to go and he was playing the victim (about the cheated test and piss in our refrigerator) "i had to do something, the test was tomorrow", and i replied that the time to do something was 4-5 weeks ago. he said, i'm not gonna stop smoking.

during this time i didn't do a lot of tit for tat, b/c he doesn't really have logic on a good day. but i said, we told you clearly that your condition for staying here was complying with the terms of your probation, which included not smoking, not selling, and not associating w/ criminals.

"that ain't gonna happen".

me: "then, you'll have to learn that your actions or inactions have consequences"

him: i love you guys and i thought things were going okay. *walking away* i really hope if something happens to me you can live with yourselves".

i had told him a few min earlier in response to a similar suicide threat that he could go somewhere.

him: "oh no. you know how i feel like that. i ain't going to the hospital."

he repeats "i hope y'all can live with yourselves if something happens to me"

me: "actually, yes. yes i can. because we have done everything we possibly can do to help you. if you won't accept our help and won't accept help from anyone else, and the threat of jail can't make you do what you need to do? yes. i'll be at peace with my decision. because me letting you stay here and self-destruct in slow motion is going to lead to the same place".

and then i went back in and closed the door as he walked to his car.

i will be gutted if anything does happen to him. but for the first time in a while i'm at peace with it. we've been mourning him for over a year.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

>>I can definitely attest to the harms of weed (and other
>>substances) and mental health disorders.
>>
>>I have a mental health condition, and I used weed as a way
>to
>>self-medicate around the time of my onset in my early 20's.
>I
>>don't think weed before your brain is fully formed is a good
>>idea. And certainly not for someone who has a diagnosable
>>brain condition like bipolar disorder.
>
>thank you so much for sharing that with me. the thing is, i
>have no doubt that he has mental illness of some sort. it also
>really seems like he has some really serious character issues
>underneath of it.
>
>did your condition change your character? how you related to
>people?
>
>he has always been pretty genial and affable. he's a charmer.
>but he's also hella manipulative and i don't know if how his
>relationships end up are due to inevitable sabotage, or, in
>many cases, they were always transactional to be mined for
>value and then discarded, which would be sociopathic.
>


The bipolar aspect of my condition caused me to act recklessly. I moved halfway across the country without giving it much thought. I took a trip abroad and once held drugs on my person while traveling on trains.

For some people that might not scream out as a problem. But I was really straight-laced before my illness took hold. Before my illness really took hold, I was very quiet and kept to myself. I didn't drink much and if I did I was really responsible. I didn't smoke either. So, the manic part of my illness did change me quite a bit.

The people I started to associate with changed too. My friends went from being on the nerdy side, like me, to people holding small amounts of hard drugs and partying pretty hard. I also became really irresponsible at work. I was working in Oakland at the time and I ended up losing my job because I couldn't hold things together. And while I am responsible for my decisions, I know my mental health was a big factor in why my choices led to bad outcomes.

So, I say that to say that your son's character issues may be largely caused by the effects of his mental health condition and the use of substances.

Thankfully, once I really committed to getting treatment the reckless behavior stopped soon after.

>>His decisions aren't sound because he's in distress because
>of
>>his brain chemistry. Unfortunately, many people, like
>myself,
>>only begin treatment because things really get out of hand.
>I
>>hope and pray your son discovers something or someone that
>>motivates him to get the help he needs before that point.
>
>right. and we know it's not just a matter of hoping with him.
>he needs real help. and probably medication. and we know that
>we can't diagnose him as bipolar. but from reading a lot of
>resources we can definitely say he acts bipolar-ISH. we've
>definitely seen the manic episodes, w/ the wide eyes and fast
>talk and grandiose ideas (often fantastical or divorced from
>logic). also seen the down periods. reading about the impact
>of weed on that is actually scary.
>

Yeah, those are classic symptoms of bipolar disorder. I've had 'hypomanic' episodes which are similar to manic episodes but not quite as intense. The reason those are hard to treat is that they feel euphoric. It's hard to accept that in order to be healthy you have to separate from that.

With medication and therapy, managing the symptoms becomes easier. In some cases, the condition goes into remission.

I know from my own case that unaddressed trauma was the real source of my illness. And it's hard, I think even moreso for men, to admit they've been traumatized by something or someone. That difficulty may be why your son is struggling to accept the weight of his condition because facing it would be very painful.

Whether your son's trauma was physical and violent or just the emotional pain of being separated from his birth mother it must be tremendously painful to be trapped by it since the trauma began.

I have a friend who has bipolar disorder and she was hospitalized around the same age as your son.

At first, she didn't want to take her meds. Her mother showed some tough love and basically said she wasn't coming home unless she took the meds. My friend held it against her mom at the time, but she did start treatment. She now respects the decision her mom made, because it helped her in the long run.

In many cases, including mine, it takes life turning for the worse to wake up to the potential for long-lasting harm avoiding the illness causes. But all I would recommend is being there for him when he comes to his senses. As you know, you can't open his eyes for him. But be equal measures firm and compassionate.

Also, I don't know if you've heard of the organization NAMI, but they offer classes and peer support for families of those with mental health conditions. The groups are free and don't require membership.

They have chapters around the country in most regions. In my area, the meetings are virtual. So you wouldn't necessarily have to carve out time to travel. You and your wife seem to have done some research, but the parents and family involved with the group could give you advice from first-hand experience.

Hope this helps.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

>>did your condition change your character? how you related to
>>people?
>>
>>he has always been pretty genial and affable. he's a
>charmer.
>>but he's also hella manipulative and i don't know if how his
>>relationships end up are due to inevitable sabotage, or, in
>>many cases, they were always transactional to be mined for
>>value and then discarded, which would be sociopathic.
>
>The bipolar aspect of my condition caused me to act
>recklessly. I moved halfway across the country without giving
>it much thought. I took a trip abroad and once held drugs on
>my person while traveling on trains.
>
>For some people that might not scream out as a problem. But I
>was really straight-laced before my illness took hold. Before
>my illness really took hold, I was very quiet and kept to
>myself. I didn't drink much and if I did I was really
>responsible. I didn't smoke either. So, the manic part of my
>illness did change me quite a bit.

so, essentially you took risks and made choices that were very much outside of your character prior to the onset of your illness.

>The people I started to associate with changed too. My friends
>went from being on the nerdy side, like me, to people holding
>small amounts of hard drugs and partying pretty hard. I also
>became really irresponsible at work. I was working in Oakland
>at the time and I ended up losing my job because I couldn't
>hold things together. And while I am responsible for my
>decisions, I know my mental health was a big factor in why my
>choices led to bad outcomes.
>
>So, I say that to say that your son's character issues may be
>largely caused by the effects of his mental health condition
>and the use of substances.

i am so sorry for what you went through, and i can't thank you enough for sharing your experiences with me. i pray that they will be helpful to me or someone else reading.

...

>>he needs real help. and probably medication. and we know
>that
>>we can't diagnose him as bipolar. but from reading a lot of
>>resources we can definitely say he acts bipolar-ISH. we've
>>definitely seen the manic episodes, w/ the wide eyes and
>fast
>>talk and grandiose ideas (often fantastical or divorced from
>>logic). also seen the down periods. reading about the impact
>>of weed on that is actually scary.
>>
>
>Yeah, those are classic symptoms of bipolar disorder. I've had
>'hypomanic' episodes which are similar to manic episodes but
>not quite as intense. The reason those are hard to treat is
>that they feel euphoric. It's hard to accept that in order to
>be healthy you have to separate from that.
>
>With medication and therapy, managing the symptoms becomes
>easier. In some cases, the condition goes into remission.
>
>I know from my own case that unaddressed trauma was the real
>source of my illness. And it's hard, I think even moreso for
>men, to admit they've been traumatized by something or
>someone. That difficulty may be why your son is struggling to
>accept the weight of his condition because facing it would be
>very painful.
>
>Whether your son's trauma was physical and violent or just the
>emotional pain of being separated from his birth mother it
>must be tremendously painful to be trapped by it since the
>trauma began.

he definitely has unaddressed and even unexamined trauma. he's not aware of all of the circumstances of his coming into care. whenever we have discussions that get too deep, he shuts it down.

in addition to bouncing around w/ other relatives, he was with his mom when they were homeless, in and out of shelters. (how social services allowed this while playing 'Watcher' is beyond me).

when he was with his mom, he was neglected when she was in a down period, or using. so he had to feed himself (cereal or whatever he could find, if he could find it, per the social workers).

>I have a friend who has bipolar disorder and she was
>hospitalized around the same age as your son.
>
>At first, she didn't want to take her meds. Her mother showed
>some tough love and basically said she wasn't coming home
>unless she took the meds. My friend held it against her mom at
>the time, but she did start treatment. She now respects the
>decision her mom made, because it helped her in the long run.
>
>In many cases, including mine, it takes life turning for the
>worse to wake up to the potential for long-lasting harm
>avoiding the illness causes. But all I would recommend is
>being there for him when he comes to his senses. As you know,
>you can't open his eyes for him. But be equal measures firm
>and compassionate.

i hope so. if we went along with how he wanted to play it there would be no hitting bottom unless it's prison or the streets. had to play that hand at that point.

>
>Also, I don't know if you've heard of the organization NAMI,
>but they offer classes and peer support for families of those
>with mental health conditions. The groups are free and don't
>require membership.
>
>They have chapters around the country in most regions. In my
>area, the meetings are virtual. So you wouldn't necessarily
>have to carve out time to travel. You and your wife seem to
>have done some research, but the parents and family involved
>with the group could give you advice from first-hand
>experience.
>
>Hope this helps.
>

i'm writing that all down and will look into it. again, thanks again, so much.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

But thankful your son got a (rare) decent cop, for everyone's sake.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>But thankful your son got a (rare) decent cop, for everyone's
>sake.

we really are and expressed as much.

1am call from a rural county cop? my heart, yo.

could have been so much worse in myriad ways.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

The struggle is real.

We have been going through similar times with my stepdaughter (almost 20) for many years now.

Good for you for setting that firm boundary. Stay strong.

>The struggle is real.
>
>We have been going through similar times with my stepdaughter
>(almost 20) for many years now.
>
>Good for you for setting that firm boundary. Stay strong.

same. thanks. it wasn't even that high of a bar. ain't gonna be no weed or freedom in prison. you can't / won't detox for a couple months, you bout to make somebody do it for you.

if you can't do that math and won't accept help, ain't nothin left but jail or death.

it's gotten to the point where I'm not helping. I'm just delaying consequences.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

outside looking in, Reply 4 is more alarming than a weed addiction (?)

23 is young enough to get it together, but he will need a support system even if he isnt living under your roof

stakes are automatically higher for him b/c of how he looks.

i even explained, that even w/ *my* feelings toward cops, that was the most nicest possible arrest a young black man with dreads in a newish car with clouds of weed smoke and sales paraphernalia could possibly hope to get. i could not imagine that going any more leniently.

and his attitude is basically, 'so?'.

>outside looking in, Reply 4 is more alarming than a weed
>addiction (?)
>
>23 is young enough to get it together, but he will need a
>support system even if he isnt living under your roof

forever, he flocks to drama. most tangentially related drama, he tries to find a way to run toward that shit. he is actively turning down voluntary and mandatory support structures offered by us, who love him and want what's good for him, and the system, which generally could gaf about him, but has been a lot more understanding than they could have. he refuses both.

so after 5 mos of him officially on probation. if he's like, prison ain't enough of a threat for him to do right? ain't no words or actions from me short of having committed gonna do anything. and if i wait for him to truly be in crisis and call for help, that is pretty much a surefire way to get him killed.

ultimately i can't do no more for him than he's willing to do for himself, or allow to be done on his behalf.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

and the ex gf story about goons.

good luck fam

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

I have a cousin whos similar. The entire family has been burned by him. He is always crying out because he swears he's drowning but then when you throw him a life preserver he cuts it in half and goes back to splashing his arms and screaming that he's drowning.

he complained that he didn't feel safe at home with his dad and brothers and that he wanted to move out. So I started to talk him through planning a budget to find an apartment and what to know for getting a place...but then he just shut down and told me I "don't get it".

I worked like hell to find him a therapist...a sliding scale therapist and I told the office to just bill my card each month. My cousin agreed to go but then he started to lie for a looooooong time, but the office kept charging me.

He complained that he doesn't have the means to get a job so I bought him a laptop (chill, it was a Chromebook) so he could put a resume together. I scheduled time with him to help him do it.

In the end he didnt do shit and ultimately flipped on me. Before I started helping him, he would always talk about his sob story and how the world was unfair...and the truth was, he did start out deeply disadvantaged. He'd be telling me about how fucked up people are to him and I would be sitting there thinking "My god, the world is SO unfair to black men....we need to be there for each other"

Once I figure out what time it was, I backed off and now this motherfucker talks about me the same way...even to my own mom who had to check him because she knows how much grief I experienced trying to help.

When his moms died, his rent free home went bye bye, so the family came together and a rich family friend stepped in to host him...RENT FREE in a furnished room in the nicest part of the city. The only rule was, just be cool about shit. This kid could not even play by her most basic of rules. He burned that bridge in the most dramatic way possible. He wrote a shitty letter, called her evil, and destroyed the nice room he was allowed to live in.


It's one thing to be a mess, we're all little messes. However, it's a whole other bag of dicks to be a mess in the face of family trying to support.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

same age, we were close as hell.

Something happened and he just went left.

He showed up at my dorm room and tried to stay for the semester. Nah b… you aren’t getting me kicked out of college.

Every family member kicked him out. He still lives close to where we grew up but he didn’t even show up for his sisters funeral.

and he is now on disability and on tons of meds. At first we thought it was a hustle but I think he is really off.

Its been like 20 years since I have seen him.

and I’m not even sure I want to see him because I think the person I knew is gone.

Poetx sounds like he is dealing with a son who needs a ridiculous amount of attention whether positive or negative.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

and stable job...

I wanted help but also freedom, no rules, no obligations

I did not disrespect anyone's property but there was always an "earn your keep" vibe I could not live up to...

it was hard to trust folks who wanted to help because they also wanted to take credit for the help in a way that made them feel good and me feel obligated to praise them or be gossiped about

I did not have a car and was grateful for rides to places, but after a while, I just felt like a burden...

this was the 90s though, and in current times I just think about all the things I could have done with a smartphone, laptop, and uber, though technology does not solve emotional issues

reminds me of my nephew.

He was into credit cards and kept getting caught.. like, “dude you are not good at this. Just stop!”

Only thing that worked was fed time.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

- my mother-in-law died of cancer (super acrimonious. she wouldn't allow my wife to tell her mother until afterward, so my wife had to break the news to her grandmother that her daughter was sick and held it from her)
-- my brother-in-law wilded out at the time of the funeral, ransacked his mother's apartment.
- my grandmother (nana) died of cancer
- my wife's grandmother died (natural causes?)
2015
- my father has a stroke, a week after easter
- my father dies (aug)
- my sister loses her mf mind during that entire period
2016
- i'm laid off after 24.5 years as a top performer at xxx (1 month of severance)
- i burn through my entire 401k keeping things afloat for a year and a half, and trying to start my own business
2017 - i get hired at my current job.

we're still catching our breath from all that.

on the good side, despite the pandemic, in 2020
- oldest son gets married, we get a daughter-in-law and our first grandson
- middle son graduates from college
- oldest daughter gets married

*exhales slowly*


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

>- my mother-in-law died of cancer (super acrimonious. she
>wouldn't allow my wife to tell her mother until afterward, so
>my wife had to break the news to her grandmother that her
>daughter was sick and held it from her)
>-- my brother-in-law wilded out at the time of the funeral,
>ransacked his mother's apartment.
>- my grandmother (nana) died of cancer
>- my wife's grandmother died (natural causes?)
>2015
>- my father has a stroke, a week after easter
>- my father dies (aug)
>- my sister loses her mf mind during that entire period
>2016
>- i'm laid off after 24.5 years as a top performer at xxx (1
>month of severance)
>- i burn through my entire 401k keeping things afloat for a
>year and a half, and trying to start my own business
>2017 - i get hired at my current job.
>
>we're still catching our breath from all that.
>
>on the good side, despite the pandemic, in 2020
>- oldest son gets married, we get a daughter-in-law and our
>first grandson
>- middle son graduates from college
>- oldest daughter gets married
>
>*exhales slowly*
>
>
>peace & blessings,
>
>x.
>
>www.twitter.com/poetx
>
>=========================================

I had typed out a lot of personal shit then I realized I'm not as brave as you.

I try to focus on the positive.

As far as your youngest son after dealing with family members in similar situations I've learned that sometimes you have to learn to love people from a distance.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>>- my mother-in-law died of cancer (super acrimonious. she
>>wouldn't allow my wife to tell her mother until afterward,
>so
>>my wife had to break the news to her grandmother that her
>>daughter was sick and held it from her)
>>-- my brother-in-law wilded out at the time of the funeral,
>>ransacked his mother's apartment.
>>- my grandmother (nana) died of cancer
>>- my wife's grandmother died (natural causes?)
>>2015
>>- my father has a stroke, a week after easter
>>- my father dies (aug)
>>- my sister loses her mf mind during that entire period
>>2016
>>- i'm laid off after 24.5 years as a top performer at xxx (1
>>month of severance)
>>- i burn through my entire 401k keeping things afloat for a
>>year and a half, and trying to start my own business
>>2017 - i get hired at my current job.
>>
>>we're still catching our breath from all that.
>>
>>on the good side, despite the pandemic, in 2020
>>- oldest son gets married, we get a daughter-in-law and our
>>first grandson
>>- middle son graduates from college
>>- oldest daughter gets married
>>
>>*exhales slowly*
>>
>>
>>peace & blessings,
>>
>>x.
>>
>>www.twitter.com/poetx
>>
>>=========================================
>
>I had typed out a lot of personal shit then I realized I'm not
>as brave as you.

i'm semi-anonymous. and semi-transparent. but still feel like i'm putting myself out there. but on the other hand, i feel like there's people out here who can help me, or people i can help. hopefully.


>
>I try to focus on the positive.
>
>As far as your youngest son after dealing with family members
>in similar situations I've learned that sometimes you have to
>learn to love people from a distance.
>

i'm already like that w/ a lot of people. i have a tight circle. but our fam has been traditionally *very* tight and close-knit, and love to spend time together, and get together. and the last few years have just really been off. it's an adjustment.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

>- my mother-in-law died of cancer (super acrimonious. she
>wouldn't allow my wife to tell her mother until afterward, so
>my wife had to break the news to her grandmother that her
>daughter was sick and held it from her)
>-- my brother-in-law wilded out at the time of the funeral,
>ransacked his mother's apartment.
>- my grandmother (nana) died of cancer
>- my wife's grandmother died (natural causes?)
>2015
>- my father has a stroke, a week after easter
>- my father dies (aug)
>- my sister loses her mf mind during that entire period
>2016
>- i'm laid off after 24.5 years as a top performer at xxx (1
>month of severance)
>- i burn through my entire 401k keeping things afloat for a
>year and a half, and trying to start my own business
>2017 - i get hired at my current job.
>
>we're still catching our breath from all that.
>
>on the good side, despite the pandemic, in 2020
>- oldest son gets married, we get a daughter-in-law and our
>first grandson
>- middle son graduates from college
>- oldest daughter gets married
>
>*exhales slowly*
>
>
>peace & blessings,
>
>x.
>
>www.twitter.com/poetx
>
>=========================================
>I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
>focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
>
>not having much to show for it. (c) mad

i'm sorely tempted. but soon as i come down, my problems would be right here w/ me.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

I have no words, just support. Hopefully this is just a rough patch, and he'll see the light with the reality of not living at home.

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

Those two don’t mix well at all. I would imagine someone like that
might need therapy and a handler for the rest of his life.

I don’t consider a person like that to be your average person.

I can only imagine what you’ve been through, and what he has been
through. You both are victims. You are a victim of his uncontrollable actions
and he is a victim of himself.

Has he ever been medicated?

I’m not a fan of drugs or chemicals, but some people have mental chemical
imbalances that are so severe that they need to be medicated in order to
function in a humane way.

I personally feel it is totally impossible to logically negotiate with a person
who has a drug addiction or who is mentally disturbed. They don’t have
control of their thinking, and lack any sense of logic or reasoning.
The concept of right or wrong doesn’t exist.

I would hate to see your son get categorized as a criminal like the majority
of mentally ill people who get arrested or convicted. If he goes to prison,
It will only get worse.

I have a cousin who has functional autism. He has some semblance of human
socialization, but he is abnormally reckless. He has several kids that he doesn’t
take care of, because he doesn’t even know how to take care of himself.
As kids, I knew something wasn’t right about him, because he was unable
to express himself like a normal kid should. We still played and had fun,
and I never bothered or bullied him. He was/is my cousin. I have family members
who call him retarded, and my father still uses that word, which pisses me off.
Basically, he is not mentally fit to be in control of his life.

Has he ever been evaluated or examined by a psychiatrist to see if he is truly
mentally fit to make his own decisions or live on his own?

He might need to live under supervision to ensure that he has a normal,
civil life.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

he was little and still in foster care. took over a year before adoption was finalized.

they said he was better. his sister was actually worse off (our middle daughter, 21 yo). her therapy lasted a bit longer.


>Those two don’t mix well at all. I would imagine someone
>like that
>might need therapy and a handler for the rest of his life.
>
>I don’t consider a person like that to be your average
>person.

some mental illnesses don't really manifest until late teens / early adulthood. including some very bad stuff.


>
>I can only imagine what you’ve been through, and what he has
>been
>through. You both are victims. You are a victim of his
>uncontrollable actions
>and he is a victim of himself.
>
>Has he ever been medicated?

he came to us on adhd meds. at 4 yrs old. social worker told us his maternal gmother shopped him around until she got a diagnosis at 3+, thinking she could get money if he was considered therapeutic. you can't diagnose adhd that early and his whole life was trauma, instability and neglect.

he had negative side effects from it (tummy aches, perpetually loose bowels, zombiefied). also the meds didn't help his behaviors. so we weaned him off and worked with him on his behavioral issues.

I'll respond to the rest later...

gotta go coach


>
>I’m not a fan of drugs or chemicals, but some people have
>mental chemical
>imbalances that are so severe that they need to be medicated
>in order to
>function in a humane way.
>
>I personally feel it is totally impossible to logically
>negotiate with a person
>who has a drug addiction or who is mentally disturbed. They
>don’t have
>control of their thinking, and lack any sense of logic or
>reasoning.
>The concept of right or wrong doesn’t exist.
>
>I would hate to see your son get categorized as a criminal
>like the majority
>of mentally ill people who get arrested or convicted. If he
>goes to prison,
>It will only get worse.
>
>I have a cousin who has functional autism. He has some
>semblance of human
>socialization, but he is abnormally reckless. He has several
>kids that he doesn’t
>take care of, because he doesn’t even know how to take care
>of himself.
>As kids, I knew something wasn’t right about him, because he
>was unable
>to express himself like a normal kid should. We still played
>and had fun,
>and I never bothered or bullied him. He was/is my cousin. I
>have family members
>who call him retarded, and my father still uses that word,
>which pisses me off.
>Basically, he is not mentally fit to be in control of his
>life.
>
>Has he ever been evaluated or examined by a psychiatrist to
>see if he is truly
>mentally fit to make his own decisions or live on his own?
>
>He might need to live under supervision to ensure that he has
>a normal,
>civil life.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

Not being an ass but everything you've explained, he's def going to end up incarcerated. And that probably won't be a wake up call nor set him straight either. Not by judging from what you've told us about him. He def needs so medication and even then, he needs to be in some sort of treatment..that he wouldn't work with, so....

---
Stoicism and chill.
---
Stay +.
---

>Not being an ass but everything you've explained, he's def
>going to end up incarcerated. And that probably won't be a
>wake up call nor set him straight either.

maybe this is enough to jar him to rethink if he's really committed to this path or not. we felt like, if he was going to be openly defiant / contemptible of his legal consequences, and we let it slide, we'd be part of the problem.


Not by judging from
>what you've told us about him. He def needs so medication and
>even then, he needs to be in some sort of treatment..that he
>wouldn't work with, so....

right. i'm praying that this is enough of a wakeup call that he takes those steps. thanks.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

My mom had foster kids and some of them had to go because they came from trauma that we simply couldn’t handle.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

(his sister was 3).

they both got picked up in a drug raid. bio-mom had been been been on her last chance w/ social services. that was the straw that got her rights terminated.

it was us (who already had 4 kids, including my youngest, whom we'd adopted the year before), or the system. he came to us as a foster child / adoptive placement. his sister went back to his aunt a couple days later.

driving down (redacted) road to (redacted) where the county services building with both of them in the van was already hard. but he vocalized, at that young age, they don't want me.

and it was true. and that was the saddest shit i'd ever heard. he'd been through all the family placements (maternal and paternal grandmothers, aunts, cousins, whatever), nobody wanted him, or, moreso, his mom, b/c she would come around and threaten them or do all kinds of manipulative shit. so nobody wanted to deal w/ that anymore, scarcely 5 years into his life.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

>(his sister was 3).
>
>they both got picked up in a drug raid. bio-mom had been been
>been on her last chance w/ social services. that was the straw
>that got her rights terminated.
>
>it was us (who already had 4 kids, including my youngest, whom
>we'd adopted the year before), or the system. he came to us as
>a foster child / adoptive placement. his sister went back to
>his aunt a couple days later.
>
>driving down (redacted) road to (redacted) where the county
>services building with both of them in the van was already
>hard. but he vocalized, at that young age, they don't want me.
>
>
>and it was true. and that was the saddest shit i'd ever heard.
>he'd been through all the family placements (maternal and
>paternal grandmothers, aunts, cousins, whatever), nobody
>wanted him, or, moreso, his mom, b/c she would come around and
>threaten them or do all kinds of manipulative shit. so nobody
>wanted to deal w/ that anymore, scarcely 5 years into his
>life.
>
>
I mean it doesn't sound like it's necessarily a good thing for him to be around her but it sounds like that feeling of inadequacy, plus the chemical imbalance that may be genetics, have never really left him, they've just moved around...

>I mean it doesn't sound like it's necessarily a good thing for
>him to be around her but it sounds like that feeling of
>inadequacy, plus the chemical imbalance that may be genetics,
>have never really left him, they've just moved around...

it has to mess w/ him. we've spoken some about it w/ him. even in 'good' times, which went to few and far between and then to none over the last couple of years.

he definitely has some issues w/ that. but he won't talk w/ us or anyone else about it.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

or some group of adopted folks dealing with the type of issues they deal with?

basically around people 'like him' (for like of a better term).

pardon me if its already been answered in here.

i know its obviously difficult getting someone older than 18 to participate in something they arent entirely willing or legally forced to take part it. but maybe theres a way to reach out to friends and family members that hes close to and they can put the full court press on.

iono mayne. its a seemingly never-ending battle to save some folks from that internal torment.

his sentence if he was fortunate enough to get probation, and sure enough, mandatory counseling was part of it.

>or some group of adopted folks dealing with the type of
>issues they deal with?

nope. we would periodically bring up adoption as he was growing up. he never wanted to discuss it. shut the convos down quickly.

>basically around people 'like him' (for like of a better
>term).
>
>pardon me if its already been answered in here.

man, i'm writing long ass replies in here on stream of consciousness. no pardon necessary. thank you for caring enough to ask. but nah. he's always been averse to discussions of adoption.

now, keep in mind, throughout their childhood my wife and i were intentional to not show any difference in treatment to our kids by adoption vs our kids by birth.

at the same time we were intentional in talking about adoption, not hiding it, not stigmatizing it. hella movies have adoption themes. scripture uses adoption as a metaphor constantly. when in public, no one could tell by how we treated them that they were adopted. (as opposed to those folks, and yeah we know folks, that be like, "hi, this is my birth child and this is my adopted child" - i hate that, b/c it's typically on some 'look at me' trying to get credit for it. especially for transracial and transnational adoptions. )

>
>i know its obviously difficult getting someone older than 18
>to participate in something they arent entirely willing or
>legally forced to take part it. but maybe theres a way to
>reach out to friends and family members that hes close to and
>they can put the full court press on.

it's impossible. he has no stable relationships outside of our family and all of those are on thin ice. and there's no full court pressing. if you challenge him in the slightest to take accountability or responsibility, you're an enemy and cutoff.

>iono mayne. its a seemingly never-ending battle to save some
>folks from that internal torment.

i can't do no more. i've told him (when he was insisting that his involvement w/ his birth family, including dealing w/ his messy ass sister and almost getting shot by her trappin ass baby daddy) that you cannot save somebody if you are not a strong swimmer. i've used that analogy many times in life, way before it was applicable to him. (it happens literally in nc 2 -3 times per summer with folks drowning, so every year i touch on this w/ the kids). so even if he was well intentioned, not doable.

only way you can force an adult into treatment is try to commit them. if they don't go willingly, that means dialing 9-11. for a black person? that's a higher probability of ending in death than not doing anything.

and if he's not really in 'crisis', but just drifting through life, burning bridges, not doing shit, and putting himself on a path to jail, i couldn't even justify that.




peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

I hope you're able to find peace but it seems like you've exhausted all of your options. you're a lot better than I am because I have a very short fuse for some reason now that I've gotten older. I use to let things bounce off me, now they get me in a way I'm not proud of. you and you wife are in my prayers and I'ma send one up for your son too. God bless and be strong



<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

not in this house.

Job, school or military. Pick one, kiddo.

---
Stoicism and chill.
---
Stay +.
---

that maybe this will be the wakeup call he needs to get it together, and not something worse. i dont really have anything else to add beyond that

<--- Big Baller World Order

I know it’s not easy and I know you are stressing, hopefully he learns from the experience and gets himself together. He’s still young, plenty of time to turn things around. Wishing the best to you and your family.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

a lot to me.

i'm still jotting things down. it's helpful to me to get it on paper. but i really appreciate your own stories that you've shared. a lot of it is just confirmation that i'm not crazy.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

its a struggle.

that whole scenario is ridiculous. You did right- you extended every option to help him along and he chose the door.

Praying for his recovery and him recognizing the beauty and energy which you have continually poured into him.

------------------
One Hundred.

about 4 years?

she was sweet. her family was dysfunctional as hell. told you he was attracted to drama. kinda reporting under the guise of 'concern'.

he took advantage of her. she had a car. after a year or so it ended up he used to drive it more than her. he'd drive her to work and pick her up. and then have the car all day. ostensibly doing his training business. a lotta times he'd just be sleeping. bullshitting.

we told him that wasn't right. that even if she let him, he was abusing her niceness or naivete or whatever. we also talked to her. told her, you need to tell him 'no'. my oldest daughter would take her out to lunch sometimes and tell her the same thing.

i told him, multiple times, that he needed to get a real job. make the training thing his side hustle, get a car (b/c his model included renting gyms to train in, as well as driving to kids all across the county to train them). he literally could not scale his business without transportation. and you don't build a business like that being dependent upon other people's shit.

he had her car all funky from driving himself and other guys back and forth to workouts. got in accidents in her car. think once he pocketed the money to fix it (we saw a check come to the crib from her insurance company. after that he got some expensive training equipment).

she went to community college to get trained as a dental hygienist. he went too for a hot minute. same classes as her. ended up failing all classes.

fast forward, she eventually graduated. got a good job at a dentist's office. (she was driven and had a great work ethic). she eventually got to the point of being sick of him and wanting to call it off. she bought a new car. unbeknownst to us she had been trying for weeks to get him to give her car back (by this time he had stopped staying over w/ her at her grandmother's house).

he's all remorseful (at the consequences, probably). he's high key stalking her on social media. a coworker of the gf tells him to fall back. he exchanges words w/ her. (friend is black). she basically replies that he don't know her like that and he can mess around and get touched for talking reckless.

he's mad about that and on the verge of doing some dumb shit to escalate the situation. i tell him he's wrong on all accounts and he needs to chill and just let it and her go.

he flips on me, like, "really? she's making death threats against your son and you take her side? she talking about she got goons? i got goons too."

i respond that he was wrong af for how he treated his gf. he was lucky she wasn't vindictive, b/c she could have reported the car stolen (white girl, black man) and gotten his ass locked up. his gf's friend was right to tell him to fall back. anything after that was incidental to him being in the wrong. told him he was escalating it and he was going to bring consequences on his own head.

he basically said i never took his side, yadda yadda, and then said he might kill himself. eyes got all wide and theatrical (like pac in juice), half smiling. and maybe he needs to go to the hospital.

i called his bluff. we'd been talking for like 3 hrs, it's about 1am. i'm like, go pack your stuff. we can go to Holly Hill right damn now. i'll take you. c'mon.

then he has this shocked look on his face. nah.

whatchu mean 'nah'? you said you wanted to go? i will take you. c'mon. no. story changes.

backdrop: i KNOW suicide is incredibly serious business. but i grew up pretty much my whole life from around 8 yrs old and up with my mother threatening explicitly or implicitly to off herself if i didn't take her side in her arguments w/ my father. like, all the damn time.

and when my father had a stroke and then was sick in the hospital and my sister opened up the biggest batch of crazy ever (i chronicled that on here, too), there was one day when my sister and mother threatened me with suicide within about 30 min of each other while i'm up in md, visiting my father in the hospital, trying to come to grips with potentially losing him and my sister being absolutely hateful to my mom, disrespectful to me, and my mom who already got issues being several magnitudes of extra.

i really can't with emotional hostage taking. and jj1 has a history of doing emotionally manipulative shit. so i was just at the point of, if you say you gonna do this, and you want me to take you to the hospital, i'll do it. but don't threaten me w/ some serious shit to get leverage.

i didn't mention in that other post about all the stuff i dealt with from 2012 - 2016 that in around 2014, one of my former football players (teammate of my middle son) killed himself.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

Hopefully you find a solution and others can learn something from your ordeal.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

episode, and he got mad b/c we wouldn't give him some money or some shit. idk. my wife and all the girls were in the japanese restaurant and he came in (i think it was my middle daughter's birthday). he gets super mad b/c my oldest tells him he was wrong and shouldn't have been using that girl. and to get a real job and work for shit if he wants it.

that easter we end up w/ some drama and he's talking about how he's always been treated different and we are like, hell naw. you got the most and appreciated it the least. you don't pay rent. we haven't asked you for rent. you don't have to live here if you feel so unappreciated. wouldn't NOBODY in our peer group, Black or white, put up with this shit.

he be trying to use his adoptive status as a cudgel -- always bringing his younger sisters into his drama on some 'we' shit. they are like, naw. that's you. i think he's wielded this skillfully for many years, and we've overcorrected.

sometime around last year he gets really interested in his birth family. we've never forbidden him from dealing with them. i knew since freshman year or so they were on his fb, etc. his bio mom stayed in and out of jail. he has an older sister, s1, who was 19 when we adopted him. she begged us not to let him go back to his biological mother (her mother) b/c he'd be destroyed. he has an older brother s2, and two other older sisters, s3, s4. they were all in family placements when he and his younger sister JJ2 went into care. (yeah, it's complicated).

we initially were doing visits and stuff. but a lot of times we'd take him and JJ2 down to the county building and they'd wait, and wait... his bio mom would flake on the visit.

when she'd be locked up she'd send my wife these teary-eyed letters about how much she missed him. one thing my wife told her was that she had dealt with abandonment from her father (growing up in bmore), and that a dealbreaker was if she made a promise to jj1 that she didn't keep, as she hadn't made peace with her issues until she was 37 years old.

fast forward. bio mom and siblings supposed to come see him playing ball at a rec game (i'm coaching - i coached them all in rec in multiple sports, that's how we got into foster care and adoption to start with).

bio mom no shows. jj1's face reminds us of when we were in that van taking his sister back. that was it. we cut off all visits and contact.

keep in mind, we were raising a family of 6, that had recently grown from 4 to 6, dealing with jj2 who came to us because the aunt (a pastor) that took her in was going through a divorce and beat her in the face and back w/ a hot curling iron. we got that call while we were in florida w/ our then 5 kids (including jj1) at universal studios, outside of the poseidon adventure ride).


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

when he was younger and before we shut things down, we'd ask him if he wanted to talk to mommy bev (pseudonym for bio mom), and he was always like no. you want to write her a letter? no.

later on, we'd ask him from time to time if he wanted to talk about his birth family. answer was always no. it made him uncomfortable. we thought he felt it got in the way of him blending in. he wouldn't articulate it. it was always just no. his sister, jj2 was always a hard no on any contact or discussion.

fast forward to last year and he's in touch with them. hanging out w/ them. bad mouthing us (he admitted some in some discussions). he badmouthed the hell out of us to his former gf, we found out from my oldest daughter. smh.

anyway, the youngest of his biological siblings (s4) had a baby by a drug dealer (not a rare thing). he wasn't w/ her. she was messing w/ this other dude. somehow, her oldest son (a few years old) was left in new dude's custody, and he beats the child to death).

jj1 inserts himself into that tragedy (which is also drama). his oldest sister don't fuck w/ the youngest sister b/c she stay on drama. so much so that she didn't go to the funeral. but jj1 posting all on social media about his nephew, who he never met, he only started messing w/ them in person AFTER this happened. just like he does to every tragedy he's tangentially attached to.

he starts living w/ the siblings (still, his stuff is here. base is here). ostensibly on some savior shit, like he gonna fix everything. in the meantime he's working at a gas station / convenience store on the overnight shift. there's a shift premium for a reason. i already know the deal. he's there by himself. danger. yep. but no direct supervision, although his bosses watch the videos meticulously. he said it was less stressful.

we've had the mental health discussions multiple times. multiple offers to help him get help. all ultimately declined or not acted upon. but he later blames us for not helping him.

his jobs:

- bojangles - fired
- food lion - talk too much. great customer scores. late all the time. fired
- publix - gets in drama. fired
- bojangles - fired
- convenience store - works there for several months. including during covid so he gets shift premium and covid premium. fired. stealing / helping other dudes steal.
- random ass warehouse job - starts off good (like all the others). ends up being late for no reason. missing time. fired
- amazon - says he working there. no he not. fired. used all his PTO. faked a covid scare to cover the days when we drove him to SC to pick up his car from about to be auctioned after he got enough money up to get it back. fired.

so he's working at the convenience store at the time he really starts messing w/ his birth family. sees his birth father, too (dude was in jail for a long bid and got out when he was like 18).

uses his nephew's death / funeral as an excuse to take off from the job. turns out he's under investigation b/c the inventory turning up light. mr 'i got goons too' getting punked by supposedly gang members who figure out when he is on 3rd and just be coming through that bitch shopping, taking whole things of cigarettes. then he starts getting in on it and taking shit too.

he was luck no cops involved. and we told him so. but now he's wasted around 6 or 7 months of life that could have been a positive work history. nope.

while he is alternating between his birth siblings and our house is when he gets into selling. or we think. he said he started earlier. my suspicion is that if they don't have shit they not gonna just let him lay up on them w/ no money. it don't make sense.

he gets in fights w/ all of them and burns bridges w/ them, too.

when he gets arrested, and he's looking at big $$ to keep his car from getting repossessed, he goes to his birth father. he gives him some bread. he selling. he (birth father) gets knocked, and now he locked up again.

whole last several years is every fucking thing we've every told him coming to pass one after the other.

he got the nerve, sometimes, absent drama, to casually speak to me and my wife about 'mom' or 'dad'. we don't react in front of him, because we feel like he's being provocative on purpose. we been clear (not with respect to them, but just on general human being 101, throughout all the kids lives that there's a difference between who actively raised and cared for you versus your dna donor. my wifes biological father is her *father*, but not her 'dad'. that connotes a lot more.

some people might see being irked by that as petty, but fuck that. that's how i feel. but again, we didn't express that to him or in front of him.




peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

So vent away. It’s all support and love in here for you.