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Subject: "Why do you feel feminist users have shifted towards Twitter" Previous topic | Next topic
Bambino Grande
Member since Mar 14th 2019
937 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 09:34 AM

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"Why do you feel feminist users have shifted towards Twitter"


          


.... in search of a receptive and safe space? Additionally, do you feel structural changes to the OKP boards could bring them back?

(*dunno if this has been posted here b4, in that case - delete*)

http://www.feministonlinespaces.com/2019/04/online-ethnography-of-the-okayplayer-message-boards-by-tc/


online ethnography of the Okayplayer message boards by TC

In completing my online ethnography of the Okayplayer message boards I sought to answer two research questions which came from my earlier interaction with users on the site:

Why do you (the OKP user) feel feminist users have shifted towards Twitter in search of a receptive and safe space? Additionally, do you feel structural changes to the OKP boards could bring them back?

My work on the site was complicated, following the activity of my earlier post, by my ‘throwaway’ account’s deletion and account suspension. I received no email informing me of a moderation decision or notification of any violation of the site’s rules based on the content of my post, and can only assume that the post was either reported by another user or removed because I had disclosed that my poll was a component of a larger academic review of the site. In continuing my work I was required to use my personal account, which I primarily use to browse for music news and is not regularly used to participate in discussion, to probe at the margins of my research questions without revealing my motivations or findings.

In attempting to answer my questions I spent hours on the OKP boards, which are broken down into ‘OKP News Discussion’, ‘the lesson: In-depth music discussion’, ‘general discussion’, ‘Okay sports’, organix: life, style, art, food, health, travel’, ‘pass the popcorn’ (reviews), ‘make the music’ (music production), and ‘high tech’ (tech topics). I mainly spent time in the general discussion forum, which is both the most active and has the widest range of discussion topics. In participating under my personal account I attempting to engage users in conversation around social or political topics in which feminist perspectives are at the forefront, mostly the policy positions of prospective or actively campaigning candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination, a thread about overlooked news stories, multiple threads discussing various personal relationship situations of various users, some scattered music threads, and some other miscellaneous threads.

The consensus from users still active on the site seems to be that the boards started as a diverse group of alternative music and hip-hop fans who wanted to interact with fans outside of the filter of the music industry and the same recycled industry talking points, while engaging in conversation on political and social topics. Throughout the early 2000s the boards featured a range of feminist perspectives and vocal users; however the rise of twitter and instagram in the early 2010s drained many of these users. The users that remain are predominantly straight and cis male, and that instances of overt misogyny and bigotry go frequently unchecked within the comment threads. Multiple users who identified themselves as feminists of color overtly stated that the OKP boards are not a safe space, that the claims of feminist ‘lurking’ ring true in their opinion, and that trolls are just as prevalent on the OKP boards as elsewhere on the internet.


Users feel that there is little potential for change within the OKP boards, and that the structure of the boards themselves makes such a change impossible. This seems to be true especially on the OKP boards but also in traditional message boards more generally. As posts are linked by subtopic and responses are listed chronologically, there is very little back and forth conversation and more sweeping generalization than is found on more immediate platforms like twitter. This difference in velocity seems to impact bot the content and tone of messages, as users are relatively confident that their view will go unchallenged or will simply be brushed off. Additionally, there is no voting mechanism for replies and threads like the upvote/downvote structure on Reddit. As such, there is no means for disapproving of a post without replying to it directly, meaning that the only means for countering racism, misogyny, or trolling is through direct address which can be uncomfortable or counterproductive. It was also indicated to me by multiple users that, like me, found some of the moderation policies to be opaque and arbitrary. Lastly, the same 10-15 accounts are frequently found in most, if not all threads, drowning out voices with less activity and post frequency, both of which are indicated under user account names in the forum. This seems to establish unwritten rules of authority which ranked some voices over others with less history of participation.

To conclude, while there is a large, progressive population of OKP users who are receptive to feminists of color, the site at large, through its structure, moderation, and a few trolling users, is unsafe for feminists of color. While the okayplayer site succeeds in its aim to elevate the music blog beyond a digital industry billboard, it fails as an inclusive space for feminists of color.


  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I think this board isnt very woman friendly
Oct 12th 2021
1
hi. I'm an actual woman. IT IS THE SAME.
Oct 12th 2021
6
      not challenging your voice, earnestly asking: how do you define "unsafe"
Oct 12th 2021
7
      You’re a woman? I didn’t know that.
Oct 12th 2021
9
I think I remember a post the author made in GD to gather input:
Oct 12th 2021
2
This reminds me of the type of new "hip hop heads" that STUDY hip hop
Oct 12th 2021
3
and she pretty much plagiarized Afro Girl's post #40...smh...
Oct 12th 2021
4
Well, it was a qualitative research project. Plagiarism is a stretch.
Oct 12th 2021
5
the users who people actually want to interact with
Oct 12th 2021
8
Because this is the compelling content people want to interact with?
Oct 12th 2021
10
      RE: Because this is the compelling content people want to interact with?
Oct 12th 2021
11
      breh…lol
Oct 12th 2021
12
      that clip has 45,000 views on reddit, so yes, the evidence is clear that...
Oct 12th 2021
13
      reddit isn't a real place
Oct 12th 2021
25
           I generally avoid it
Oct 13th 2021
30
      good to know you're watching my boy
Oct 12th 2021
14
           Right. There would be more women on OKP if there were more RJCCs
Oct 12th 2021
15
                like the woman streaming on Twitch who I was playing with in that clip
Oct 12th 2021
16
                Tell us more grown ass man about how you have the girl friends
Oct 12th 2021
24
                     I understand man. You thought that everyone's life was like yours
Oct 12th 2021
27
                That's the old RJCC. He's given his life to Chr!st since then.
Oct 12th 2021
17
                     Side note: I'm so glad to find out his name is NOT Reggie.
Oct 12th 2021
18
                     building block made it up when he was giving out nicknames
Oct 12th 2021
20
                     when me, zora and everyone else in that thread are cool
Oct 12th 2021
19
                          They saw the work He did in your life...
Oct 12th 2021
22
Serious answer.
Oct 12th 2021
21
this is mostly not the case
Oct 12th 2021
26
      The guys left because the girls left.
Oct 12th 2021
28
           Nah
Oct 12th 2021
29
natural evolution of tech/communication and ability to curate
Oct 12th 2021
23
Yup. Message boards in general took a hit
Oct 13th 2021
31

atruhead
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Tue Oct-12-21 09:46 AM

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1. "I think this board isnt very woman friendly"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I dont know if that's the same as "unsafe"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35338 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 11:23 AM

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6. "hi. I'm an actual woman. IT IS THE SAME."
In response to Reply # 1


          

I just happen to choose to still wade thru this dumpsterfire from time to time as there happen to still be some interesting folks here and my voice is important.


d


"Chappelle is now a wealthy cishet Black man with little else to offer to his audiences, but low-hanging uninformed fruit. And cishet folks who claim the LGBTQ+ community have too thin a skin also lack the range to confront their own prejudices in a meaningful way."

  

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atruhead
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Tue Oct-12-21 01:00 PM

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7. "not challenging your voice, earnestly asking: how do you define "unsafe""
In response to Reply # 6
Tue Oct-12-21 01:01 PM by atruhead

  

          

.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
5869 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 01:49 PM

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9. "You’re a woman? I didn’t know that."
In response to Reply # 6


          

Hey, boo.

LoL

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2039 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 10:42 AM

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2. "I think I remember a post the author made in GD to gather input:"
In response to Reply # 0


          


https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13319339&mesg_id=13319339


Interesting to see the final analysis; I thought they would circle back and share it here lol.

Going to skim it now


  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43866 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 10:50 AM

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3. "This reminds me of the type of new "hip hop heads" that STUDY hip hop "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but aren't PART of Hip Hop culture....
There are things that they get right....but SOOOOOOOOO much nuance and backstory that they miss and ultimately lead to a great deal of misunderstanding.


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43866 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 10:52 AM

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4. "and she pretty much plagiarized Afro Girl's post #40...smh..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2039 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 11:12 AM

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5. "Well, it was a qualitative research project. Plagiarism is a stretch."
In response to Reply # 4
Tue Oct-12-21 11:13 AM by kfine

          

I'm more familiar with quantitative methods, but I do know from some mixed-method evals I've participated in that direct quotations of what is shared by respondents in qualitative studies is extremely common.

Can't really speak more on the author's methods tho bc we don't know other than the bit shared in the writeup.

Also, the author never disclosed whether they identify as a woman btw. There are men who study feminism too lol

  

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Rjcc
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93712 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 01:20 PM

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8. "the users who people actually want to interact with"
In response to Reply # 0


          

have shifted toward twitter.

those of y'all whose primary social outlet is okayplayer, do not have people who would choose to hear from you by following you.

on a message board there's no choice, the dumbest loudest voice goes to the top

but on Twitter, and YouTube, and Facebook and TikTok, and Soundcloud

you guys get ignored by everyone because you have nothing to contribute to a conversation that anyone is interested in hearing, no matter what their ideology is.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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46351 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 01:53 PM

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10. "Because this is the compelling content people want to interact with?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          



https://twitter.com/rjcc/status/1445643874731388928



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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rdhull
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32469 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 02:40 PM

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11. "RE: Because this is the compelling content people want to interact with?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>
>
>https://twitter.com/rjcc/status/1445643874731388928

:chortle:

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
70962 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 02:44 PM

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12. "breh…lol"
In response to Reply # 10


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Rjcc
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Tue Oct-12-21 03:23 PM

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13. "that clip has 45,000 views on reddit, so yes, the evidence is clear that..."
In response to Reply # 10


          

https://www.reddit.com/r/miragemains/comments/q2lsvb/its_a_damn_shame_seeing_another_mirage_get/


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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rdhull
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Tue Oct-12-21 06:42 PM

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25. "reddit isn't a real place"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>https://www.reddit.com/r/miragemains/comments/q2lsvb/its_a_damn_shame_seeing_another_mirage_get/
>
>
>www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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Wed Oct-13-21 02:09 AM

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30. "I generally avoid it"
In response to Reply # 25


          

  

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Rjcc
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Tue Oct-12-21 03:23 PM

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14. "good to know you're watching my boy"
In response to Reply # 10
Tue Oct-12-21 03:37 PM by Rjcc

          

you've said a lot of funny shit over the years, but trying to claim I don't make good content by choosing to highlight a video clip that's been seen by more people than have ever interacted with anything you've ever done in your entire life is absolutely your masterpiece

I really don't get enough of a chance to reflect on the fact that the stuff I do casually as less than a hobby with basically no effort or skill at all still ranks higher than what most people do on their best days, despite the fact that 45,000 views isn't even a rounding error on the amount of people reading and watching my stuff last week.

for me anything that's not in the millions is a ridiculous failure, and I appreciate what you've done to put it in perspective.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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46351 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 04:17 PM

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15. "Right. There would be more women on OKP if there were more RJCCs"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

posting videos of them playing video games. Weird flex but okay.


OR

maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with MODS posting like this:

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=18&topic_id=2595&mesg_id=2595&listing_type=search





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Rjcc
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Tue Oct-12-21 04:23 PM

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16. "like the woman streaming on Twitch who I was playing with in that clip"
In response to Reply # 15
Tue Oct-12-21 04:24 PM by Rjcc

          

yes

see you get it

women don't come here because you aren't here.

in other places where I am, and you are not, there are more women because they like being around me.


edit - you are doing the best job of explaining this, thank you again

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Oct-12-21 06:06 PM

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24. "Tell us more grown ass man about how you have the girl friends "
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

on twitch because you post cool videos of you playing video games. LOL. Ain't you knocking on 40?


Actually tell us less. I am tapping out now because I am embarrassed enough for the both of us.

Sorry to all for this derailing exchange.


>yes
>
>see you get it
>
>women don't come here because you aren't here.
>
>in other places where I am, and you are not, there are more
>women because they like being around me.
>
>
>edit - you are doing the best job of explaining this, thank
>you again
>
>www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Rjcc
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Tue Oct-12-21 06:51 PM

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27. "I understand man. You thought that everyone's life was like yours"
In response to Reply # 24


          

where women actively avoid you in all areas, on all platforms, and no one wants to talk to you.

but now that you have to see the evidence that it isn't like that for everyone it's too much and you have to go.

you should try therapy bro, they can help you with these feelings.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Teknontheou
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Tue Oct-12-21 05:11 PM

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17. "That's the old RJCC. He's given his life to Chr!st since then."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

  

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Teknontheou
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Tue Oct-12-21 05:14 PM

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18. "Side note: I'm so glad to find out his name is NOT Reggie."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

Not sure if I imagined that or not.

  

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Rjcc
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Tue Oct-12-21 05:38 PM

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20. "building block made it up when he was giving out nicknames"
In response to Reply # 18


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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Tue Oct-12-21 05:37 PM

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19. "when me, zora and everyone else in that thread are cool"
In response to Reply # 17


          

the only people pretending to be offended are people who actually hate women and think it's their out

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Teknontheou
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Tue Oct-12-21 05:59 PM

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22. "They saw the work He did in your life..."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

https://youtu.be/F7FaxHVkUkI

  

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Teknontheou
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Tue Oct-12-21 05:52 PM

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21. "Serious answer."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Women don't like arguing with men. They'll argue with each other (I see them do it on other big message boards - they'll even get nasty with each other), but arguing with men triggers very real emotions of fear in many women. And OKP was a self-sustaining community where people were actually connected offline. That made it feel like a "closed room". Women are instinctually leery of being in closed rooms with men they don't like or know well - even virtual closed rooms.

So we had developed alot of Gender Warz stuff here and that scared alot of the women. Twitter and Instagram are much more open. Those places are like being outside with no fencing or walls,, rather than inside. Plus Twitter feels very anonymous. Also on Twitter you can mute or block. All of that comes together to help women feel like they have an escape hatch or can put up a shield when they interact with someone they don't like there. OKP would have benefitted tremendously from some sort of block or mute function. It would have kept alot of the Women here and not just lurking like most of them still do (NERL).

  

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Rjcc
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Tue Oct-12-21 06:48 PM

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26. "this is mostly not the case"
In response to Reply # 21


          

it's fairly simple, there's no new blood coming into this community.

there's new people to interact with elsewhere

so you stop coming back. most of the dudes left too, but the imbalance is clearer now

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Teknontheou
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Tue Oct-12-21 08:07 PM

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28. "The guys left because the girls left."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

  

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Rjcc
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Tue Oct-12-21 08:10 PM

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29. "Nah"
In response to Reply # 28


          

With no new folks coming in, no one was sticking around

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
81878 posts
Tue Oct-12-21 06:04 PM

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23. "natural evolution of tech/communication and ability to curate"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and block the opps.

honestly i think if it wasnt for OKS this place would prob be finished altogether. not because its the most busy but it seems like the thing most folks still here have in common. when you find a good sports discussion community you don't leave.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15879 posts
Wed Oct-13-21 02:21 AM

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31. "Yup. Message boards in general took a hit"
In response to Reply # 23


          

When social media started growing.

  

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