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Lobby General Discussion topic #13441722

Subject: "How many of yall gonna be forced to VAX by this new mandate?" Previous topic | Next topic
Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13396 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 02:48 PM

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"How many of yall gonna be forced to VAX by this new mandate?"


          

Federal employees and everybody with over 98 coworkers.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
my company already did this, but I already had it anyway.
Sep 10th 2021
1
mine already had it somewhat
Sep 10th 2021
2
aint no somewhat anymore
Sep 10th 2021
5
Exact same situation at my gig. Verbatim
Sep 10th 2021
6
I work in Education so it's been trending that way
Sep 10th 2021
3
Nobody is going to force me to get vaccinated
Sep 10th 2021
4
lol word
Sep 10th 2021
7
^^
Sep 10th 2021
8
what the greater good?
Sep 10th 2021
10
I read about the microchip on Facebook on my iPhone!!!!!
Sep 10th 2021
15
*stands in this line*
Sep 12th 2021
54
My job already requires weekly testing even if you're vaccinated
Sep 10th 2021
9
I think that’s fair…
Sep 10th 2021
11
Of all the vaccinations for people to get hung up on...why this??? I.don...
Sep 10th 2021
12
for the same reason people think masks are oppression
Sep 10th 2021
16
Children aren't
Sep 10th 2021
17
The audacity to say they're dumb, while using the operative term "as",
Sep 10th 2021
18
      oh he's worse than dumb...but yes, very very dumb
Sep 10th 2021
19
      98% survival rate
Sep 11th 2021
27
           Would you say you know 100 people?
Sep 11th 2021
29
           People die everyday
Sep 12th 2021
40
                You didn't answer the question
Sep 12th 2021
43
           "98%" ignores the 1 in 6 that catch COVID have severe symptoms,
Sep 12th 2021
42
           word. like Long Covid don't exist. mfers out here raising they hand to
Sep 12th 2021
55
           U.S. population is ~330M
Sep 13th 2021
59
      Lol English bastardized mix of several European and African languages
Sep 11th 2021
26
           What did I say about childten getting COVID?
Sep 11th 2021
28
Here's my unprofessional understanding what why it's different
Sep 11th 2021
20
understanding *of* why it's different... and another reason....
Sep 11th 2021
22
Is it because these sources are from known right-wing orgs/people
Sep 11th 2021
23
1. No.
Sep 11th 2021
24
      I very clearly noted that what I posted had evrerything to do with the s...
Sep 11th 2021
25
      Oh I see. You weren't done.
Sep 11th 2021
30
           Here's the thing: You've shirked off the burden of proof here.
Sep 11th 2021
31
                The main point of my reply to FluidJ was to communicate..
Sep 12th 2021
32
                     You told me to either disprove the claims, or don't.
Sep 12th 2021
34
                          Indeed.
Sep 12th 2021
36
      Here's are multiple sources regarding the mRNA questions/issues.
Sep 12th 2021
33
      ...
Sep 12th 2021
35
           Show me where I said mRNA vaccines have been administered on a large sca...
Sep 12th 2021
37
                It's the question I asked. I thought you were answering.
Sep 12th 2021
39
      I appreciate both of you guys' responses. I also applaud the deep dives ...
Sep 12th 2021
38
      I feel you
Sep 12th 2021
41
           you genuinely understand the concerns
Sep 12th 2021
51
           props for being an adult
Sep 12th 2021
53
                No doubt
Sep 13th 2021
57
      you know what they always say
Sep 12th 2021
47
well, if someone wrote it, then it's true
Sep 12th 2021
45
Whoa,mRNA vaccines are NOT gene therapy. That's really bad misinfo
Sep 14th 2021
101
      because boogie is a misinformation agent
Sep 14th 2021
109
      I like Boogie
Sep 15th 2021
112
           if someone is trying to con you
Sep 16th 2021
121
      I appreciate the informative and concise response.
Sep 15th 2021
119
people are very bad at evaluating personal risk
Sep 12th 2021
44
also, we've had twenty years of antivax hysteria
Sep 12th 2021
48
      What are those reasons and flaws from your pov?
Sep 12th 2021
49
           affordable healthcare isn't as accessible and equitable as it should be
Sep 12th 2021
50
                Oh ok. Thanks for the contribution.
Sep 12th 2021
52
We we're mandated by an order on August 5th
Sep 10th 2021
13
Oh this post is gonna get good.
Sep 10th 2021
14
"good and turrble" (c) Coming to America
Sep 12th 2021
56
how come beltway media never asks...
Sep 11th 2021
21
Y'all will remember that I've been telling you about boogie for years no...
Sep 12th 2021
46
Liars and idiots trying to get Religious exemptions
Sep 13th 2021
58
I'm all for Religious exemptions
Sep 13th 2021
62
In the article it makes it clear it's mostly bullshit
Sep 13th 2021
67
      I don't need an article to know that
Sep 13th 2021
68
You don't need a specific religion you nitwit
Sep 13th 2021
78
I was vaccinated in late March. My job is officially requiring vaccinati...
Sep 13th 2021
60
same here...i was vaxed in April and was ahead of the curve...
Sep 13th 2021
79
I've Been vaxxed. No one should be forced to be vaxxed. nm
Sep 13th 2021
61
I don't think people should be forced to get vaccinated either
Sep 13th 2021
63
      Yall crazy as hell.
Sep 13th 2021
64
           Why do you keep talking about masks?
Sep 13th 2021
65
                vaccinated ppl wanna come out the mask and blame unvaxxed
Sep 13th 2021
66
                     I never called you anti mask.
Sep 13th 2021
69
                     as football season starts its weird seeing stadiums packed with unmasked...
Sep 13th 2021
71
                          Yeah, though I think we can now safely say...
Sep 13th 2021
72
                     But that is the case, biologically. Unvacc'd ppl serve as reservoir
Sep 13th 2021
70
                     lol..this is getting so weird...your preoccupation with masks that is......
Sep 14th 2021
80
                          Regarding transmission, Masks work. The vax....not so much
Sep 14th 2021
81
                               How/why do you say "The vax....not so much" ?? Literally have alive love...
Sep 14th 2021
82
                                    TRANSMISSION transmission
Sep 14th 2021
83
                                         I'd recommend checking tensile strength of your goal posts .....
Sep 14th 2021
84
                                              nice deflection but as you stated above....I keep talking about masks..
Sep 14th 2021
85
                                                   Why is it either/or with you? Both are necessary.
Sep 14th 2021
86
                                                        The mask is necessary to reduce transmission.
Sep 14th 2021
87
                                                             How/why are you so adamantly wrong??
Sep 14th 2021
88
                                                             Masks used correctly have a lower transmission rate than vaccine alone
Sep 14th 2021
90
                                                                  There you go with the either/or...when literally nobody in this post is
Sep 14th 2021
97
                                                                       I am suggesting either or since some ppl don't want the vaxx
Sep 14th 2021
103
                                                                            Umm, I'm a lightweight introvert and I've rather enjoyed the past year o...
Sep 14th 2021
106
                                                                                 My condolences I'm sorry to hear of the losses you've endured.
Sep 14th 2021
107
                                                                                      Props for this response.
Sep 15th 2021
113
                                                                                      ❤️ ❤️
Sep 15th 2021
118
                                                                                      appreciated.
Sep 16th 2021
122
                                                                                      More people on the internet need to say things like this
Sep 16th 2021
131
                                                             RE: Unvaccinated person has same odds <-- this is extremely false.
Sep 14th 2021
89
                                                             that capture is not what I said at all. READING IS FUNDAMENTAL
Sep 14th 2021
91
                                                             Ok, so if masks and social distancing are more effective
Sep 14th 2021
92
                                                                  Masks and social distancing are more effective re transmission
Sep 14th 2021
96
                                                                       lol
Sep 14th 2021
99
                                                             To add to this...
Sep 14th 2021
93
                                                                  RE: To add to this...
Sep 14th 2021
94
                                                                       They ain't special
Sep 14th 2021
102
                                                                            Work in healthcare, my unvaxxed families show up with saran wrapped hair
Sep 14th 2021
104
                                                                                 Yeah sis...but the absent part of my post is that...
Sep 15th 2021
111
                                                             You’re wrong, the vaccine does reduce transmission
Sep 16th 2021
130
is it true that congress
Sep 13th 2021
73
Executive branch can't force another branch to do something
Sep 13th 2021
74
      i don't know
Sep 13th 2021
75
      But WE GOTTA take it
Sep 13th 2021
76
           The fuck are you talking about
Sep 13th 2021
77
If I distrusted the mRNA vaccs, the fact that a brainiac Black woman
Sep 14th 2021
95
Eunice Rivers Laurie
Sep 14th 2021
98
      Thank you for showing me how Black anti-vaxxers would view her.
Sep 14th 2021
100
           Oppenheimer thought his work was genius while he was doing it
Sep 14th 2021
105
                You're right. Let me stop celebrating anything a Black person does.
Sep 14th 2021
108
                Full ICUs should be enough for you to stop now
Sep 14th 2021
110
i wonder what will happen at my job
Sep 15th 2021
114
RE: i wonder what will happen at my job
Sep 15th 2021
115
Hope they quit
Sep 15th 2021
116
      RE: no ill effects
Sep 15th 2021
117
           RE: no ill effects
Sep 15th 2021
120
           CDC - VAERS website
Sep 16th 2021
125
           If you are referencing VAERS submisisons as a reliable source...
Sep 16th 2021
123
                RE: If you are referencing VAERS submisisons as a reliable source...
Sep 16th 2021
124
                     .02% of ALL AMERICAS
Sep 16th 2021
126
                     Ya'll realize these mandates aren't excluding my people?
Sep 16th 2021
129
                     Nobody has issues with people who can't vaccinate.
Sep 16th 2021
127
                          RE: Nobody has issues with people who can't vaccinate.
Sep 16th 2021
128
                               The source you choose is absolutely an indictment of you
Sep 16th 2021
132

tariqhu
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16098 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 03:14 PM

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1. "my company already did this, but I already had it anyway."
In response to Reply # 0


          

had to see this coming, especially with a large companies.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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Mynoriti
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36521 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 03:30 PM

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2. "mine already had it somewhat"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

at first it was a vax or mask up rule

but the lift on masks for vaxed employees only lasted a few weeks

so i assume it just shifts to vax or test weekly

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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rdhull
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32422 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 03:48 PM

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5. "aint no somewhat anymore"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>at first it was a vax or mask up rule
>
>but the lift on masks for vaxed employees only lasted a few
>weeks
>
>so i assume it just shifts to vax or test weekly
>
>

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13396 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 03:50 PM

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6. "Exact same situation at my gig. Verbatim"
In response to Reply # 2


          

>at first it was a vax or mask up rule
>
>but the lift on masks for vaxed employees only lasted a few
>weeks
>
>so i assume it just shifts to vax or test weekly




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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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JiggysMyDayJob
Member since Jul 03rd 2002
4925 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 03:39 PM

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3. "I work in Education so it's been trending that way"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Our school board votes this upcoming Monday and our HR is already surveying to find out who's vaxxed or not. After Joe's announcement and LAUSD going all in with vaccinations for students 12 and above it's safe to say we're going Vaxx or get tested regularly.

It will be interesting since our district tips close to the border of Orange County and a good number of staff/parents are kinda Anit-Vax/Trumpy people.

sometimes u gotta leave ur inner nigger in the bank vault. - desus

Situation Podemy : www.situationpodemy.wordpress.com
itunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/situation-podemy/id620232249
facebook: facebook.com/situationpodemy
@SituationPodemy

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42307 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 03:46 PM

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4. "Nobody is going to force me to get vaccinated"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Sep-10-21 03:47 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

Because I'm a reasonable adult with access to information, understands why I don't have polio, isn't freaking out over the idea of Bill Gates implanting me with the mark of the beast, and who possesses enough critical thinking skills to understand that muh freedumb isn't being taken away by doing my small part in helping to build herd immunity for my children and others who can't vaccinate.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13396 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 03:51 PM

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7. "lol word"
In response to Reply # 4


          

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Mynoriti
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36521 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 03:51 PM

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8. "^^"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

  

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Trinity444
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41647 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 04:54 PM

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10. "what the greater good? "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

I was hesitate about getting it but I couldn’t risk losing my mother. especially considering, we still don’t know if covid took out my dad.

I couldn’t bear losing her…

not like that…







  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
41431 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 05:44 PM

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15. "I read about the microchip on Facebook on my iPhone!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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poetx
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58422 posts
Sun Sep-12-21 11:21 PM

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54. "*stands in this line*"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
43481 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 04:11 PM

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9. "My job already requires weekly testing even if you're vaccinated"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Which is fine. Especially since they do the testing.

I'd really like to hope that everyone at the job is already vaccinated, but who the fuck knows these days.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Trinity444
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41647 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 04:56 PM

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11. "I think that’s fair…"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

is it the “up the nose” swab or the cheek?

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43786 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 05:02 PM

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12. "Of all the vaccinations for people to get hung up on...why this??? I.don..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Especially anyone with kids....
Yes, I know about the whole autism anti vax movement...




"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Mynoriti
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36521 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 06:05 PM

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16. "for the same reason people think masks are oppression"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15691 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 09:38 PM

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17. "Children aren't "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

susceptible as adult with autoimmune diseases.

Yall are dumb.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42307 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 10:08 PM

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18. "The audacity to say they're dumb, while using the operative term "as","
In response to Reply # 17
Fri Sep-10-21 10:09 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

Is mind blowing.

If you could, with intellectual honesty and veracity, make your exact statement with the exception of ommitting the word "as", then you'd have a point.

You'd be correct, and they'd be dumb.

But you can't.
And so they're not.

Which makes the dumb person in the room......


....you.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4273 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 10:23 PM

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19. "oh he's worse than dumb...but yes, very very dumb"
In response to Reply # 18


          


There are kids who are at risk. There are kids who have autoimmune issues. Kids who have inflammation issues, such as my youngest.

Kids with asthma, like my niece.

Or kids who live with high risk parents, etc.

Etc Etc




He also doesn't understand that the only risk here isn't death.


He doesn't understand risk. Or basic math.


Plenty of us have tried.


So yeah ignorant. Hard-headed. Dumb. Selfish. And a hypocrite, because of course this dude hasn't written off all modern medicine or anything.

Dude is just scared to get the shot and trying to sound like he's the tough one.


Oh, and he admires Busta Rhymes for his medical advice because he beat...checks notes....obesity....temporarily.


If you want a real laugh, click his soundlcoud link.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15691 posts
Sat Sep-11-21 09:27 PM

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27. "98% survival rate"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

I'm dumb for actually responding to you.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4273 posts
Sat Sep-11-21 10:29 PM

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29. "Would you say you know 100 people? "
In response to Reply # 27


          


Between family, friends, coworkers, your fellow third eye open dudes, etc.

100?


Which 2 are you okay with dropping dead?


98% survival rate is not a good number smart guy. If you had a 2% chance of dying doing anything else, you wouldn't do it.

Please google a calculator to help you work out the math.


Also...that number goes up a lot with various issues.


You love to talk about autoimmune like you just learned that word last week.

I have an autoimmune disease. I am in great shape. I drink plenty of water- always have. Never smoked. Exercise on the regular. I guarantee my diet is better than yours Mr Chick-fil-a. Etc Etc.

My disease is not my fault. It is genetic. And because of it, I have a low immune system.


There's all kinds of examples. Asthma. Etc.


You being too pussy to get vaccinated puts those people at greater risk because COVID is harder on them.


Also, death is not the only bad result here, smart guy.



>I'm dumb


True

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15691 posts
Sun Sep-12-21 08:27 AM

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40. "People die everyday"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

I never heard of a disease with a 98% survival rate feverishly needing a vaccine and like a goofy neanderthal you run out and get it.

Vaccine companies we have no liability.

Goofy followers: Thats ok!!

Government officials: oh btw we are exempt.

Yall are dumb as a box of dildos

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
4409 posts
Sun Sep-12-21 10:21 AM

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43. "You didn't answer the question"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>Between family, friends, coworkers, your fellow third eye open dudes,
>etc.

>100?


>Which 2 are you okay with dropping dead?

  

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Cocobrotha2
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10795 posts
Sun Sep-12-21 09:27 AM

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42. ""98%" ignores the 1 in 6 that catch COVID have severe symptoms, "
In response to Reply # 27


          

that enough people with severe symptoms hitting the hospitals at the same time strains the healthcare system (see most of the country about a year ago or the states with the lowest vaccine rates now), and the vaccines do reduce the likelihood for severe illness.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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poetx
Charter member
58422 posts
Sun Sep-12-21 11:25 PM

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55. "word. like Long Covid don't exist. mfers out here raising they hand to "
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

catch the equivalent of Lyme Disease or Diabetes or some shit. permanent (as of now) debilitating conditions that make you unable to walk a flight of stairs and all kinds of other wild ass side effects.

and that's hitting something like 20% of cases?

psssh. i want no parts.

that 98% shit crazy.

folk acting like an ICU stay is light work. being in life long kidney failure and needing dialysis an shit when you went in totally healthy.

smmfh.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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jrocc
Charter member
6394 posts
Mon Sep-13-21 09:17 AM

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59. "U.S. population is ~330M"
In response to Reply # 27


          

you cool with 6.6M dead? what about 158M worldwide dead? cuz ya know, this is a worldwide problem. people kill me with that 98% survival nonsense. you're talking about a LOT of dead people fam. not to mention the countless covid long haulers.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15691 posts
Sat Sep-11-21 09:26 PM

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26. "Lol English bastardized mix of several European and African languages"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

there is no standard English and since you hooked on as

How many languages do you speak fluently?

Do you even know what etymology is?!?!?!

You are a moron

A dim wit

A sycophant

A nimrod

A doofus

And you still ain't proved the dumb shit you said about children getting COVID.

Intelligence would say to me hmmm odd a pandemic has a virus that seems to skip children...

D!ckhe@d.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sat Sep-11-21 09:48 PM

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28. "What did I say about childten getting COVID? "
In response to Reply # 26
Sat Sep-11-21 09:50 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

>there is no standard English

Please explain what this has to do with anything.

You don't seem to understand why that word is important, or why it's problematic in the context of you calling people dumb.

But by all means- continue this luttle tantrum😂


>and since you hooked on as
>
>How many languages do you speak fluently?

Non sequitur.

>Do you even know what etymology is?!?!?!

Yes. Another non-sequitur.

>You are a moron

This, and the rest of the list, is purely ad hominem.

>And you still ain't proved the dumb shit you said about
>children getting COVID.

What did say? Chapter and verse please.

>Intelligence would say to me hmmm odd a pandemic has a virus
>that seems to skip children...

"Intelligence" doesn't "say" anything about anything.

>D!ckhe@d.

I attacked the content of your words.
You threw a tantrum attacked my person.

The dickhead here is quite clearly and objectively you.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sat Sep-11-21 12:48 AM

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20. "Here's my unprofessional understanding what why it's different"
In response to Reply # 12
Sat Sep-11-21 12:51 AM by Boogie Stimuli

          

The definition of what qualifies as a vaccination was changed to allow approval of this one.
Traditionally, a vaccine is giving someone a protein, antigen, partial or whole pathogen. Injecting RNA into a human being doesn't historically fall under the definition of a vaccine. Verbiage was shifted in the federal register to approve it. This is experimental biological gene therapy immune modulatory injection. Injecting ppl with a synthetic sequence of nucleic acid has never been done on a large scale in human history. RNA trials in mammals have led to odd cancers and autoimmune diseases from 6 to 12 months after the injection.

Also, if there is a treatment for a disease, the federal gov't cannot approve a vaccination. The NIH (who is involved in approving medications) cohold the patent to the vaccine with Moderna. There you have the gov't in bed with a private company, vending a product that they want to give to everyone. Conflict of interest. They don't want a therapy to work, because then they can't sell the vaccine.

But this just notes from a curious nigga trying to do a lil research.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sat Sep-11-21 01:27 PM

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22. "understanding *of* why it's different... and another reason...."
In response to Reply # 20


          

why it's different is this...

In June, doctors filed a lawsuit against the Federal Gov't over the use of "experimental vaccines" on children under 16. Quoting this next part:

"Dr. Angelina Farella, pediatric medical director for "America's Frontline Doctors," stated, "We've never seen this level of side effects for any vaccine without the FDA taking action.

The Rotavirus vaccine was pulled for 15 cases of non-lethal side effects, and the Swine Flu vaccine was pulled for 25 deaths. But now, by the CDC's data, we see a 12,000 percent increase in deaths with these vaccines, and they're still talking about giving this to our kids." She said children are statistically at zero risks for COVID-19.

The data shows that the recovery rate for COVID-19 patients under the age of 20 is 99.997 percent."

end quote

"The definition of what qualifies as a vaccination was changed to allow approval of this one.
Traditionally, a vaccine is giving someone a protein, antigen, partial or whole pathogen. Injecting RNA into a human being doesn't historically fall under the definition of a vaccine. Verbiage was shifted in the federal register to approve it. This is experimental biological gene therapy immune modulatory injection. Injecting ppl with a synthetic sequence of nucleic acid has never been done on a large scale in human history. RNA trials in mammals have led to odd cancers and autoimmune diseases from 6 to 12 months after the injection.

Also, if there is a treatment for a disease, the federal gov't cannot approve a vaccination. The NIH (who is involved in approving medications) cohold the patent to the vaccine with Moderna. There you have the gov't in bed with a private company, vending a product that they want to give to everyone. Conflict of interest. They don't want a therapy to work, because then they can't sell the vaccine.

But this just notes from a curious nigga trying to do a lil research."

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sat Sep-11-21 04:48 PM

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23. "Is it because these sources are from known right-wing orgs/people"
In response to Reply # 22
Sat Sep-11-21 05:02 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

That you didn't actually cite the sources with links?

No snark intended here. But that sort of information demands sourcing, IMO. And when I saw where this is coming from- or at least some of who is pushing it- it makes me wonder why you didn't source it.

Within five seconds, I found this:

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-anti-vax-doctor-calls-140358687.html

She's a member of the group that brought the alabama lawsuit you mentioned. "America's Frontline Doctors" is a right-wing org with leadership that includes Tea Party, and a doctor who thinks cysts are caused by having sex with demons and witches.

Oh, and its founder was present for the capitol riots.

They're also known for pushing Ivermectin, and selling COVID treatments. Well, sort of; some people are goving them their money, but getting the actual product or service in return.

https://time.com/6092368/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-19-misinformation/

So we can add fraud to the mix.

I also found this:

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/05/scicheck-instagram-posts-spread-texas-lawmakers-false-claims-on-vaccine-testing/

The second article makes mention of how that data is misrepresented.

It also includes links to other articles fleshing out this point:

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/05/scicheck-tucker-carlson-misrepresents-vaccine-safety-reporting-data/

And here:

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/scicheck-viral-posts-misuse-vaers-data-to-make-false-claims-about-covid-19-vaccines/

I haven't yet dug deep into the actual claims, which I will.

But it took less than five minutes to learn that the credibility of the people peddling the information you provided is highly dubious, at best. And I'd say that's being generous.

Sure, so far I've moay only shown that the messenger is problematic, though the links I posted do address at least some of the claims.

But I'd say a very small amount of digging makes it hard to objectively argue that these are reliable messengers.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sat Sep-11-21 07:18 PM

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24. "1. No."
In response to Reply # 23


          

2. For the issue raised in reply 22, I cited the Dr. I was quoting. That's how you found her... hell that's how *I* found it.
As for reply 20. I didn't share it because I'm having trouble finding the video. Could've been scrubbed from the web.

3. You posted ONE halfway relevant link concerning ANY of the points I raised. Lets just say you disregard ALL of the info in reply 22. I'm not seeing where your links dispute reply 20 unless your general distrust of the people involved is your sole dispute.

Your tactic here seems to be shame all info from a source based on OTHER bogus things they've said. I'm off that. Either directly challenge the specific points I've raised, or you're wasting BOTH of our time. If you can only challenge one of my points, that's fine, but be honest about that and don't pretend you're challenging EVERYTHING I've said. It's really ok not to be all knowing. I'm not pretending to be, and you don't have to either. This is why I described myself the way I did at the end of reply 20.

If there are relevant points somewhere in these articles, I'll leave it to you to highlight them... as I took the time to do in my replies. I'd rather you summarize whatever point you're trying to make and then just place the links after, because you're saying "I found THIS!" and then I read a whole article that lacks anything worth reading the whole thing for. Please pull the relevant parts and share them.

Actually, I'll make it easy.

Question 1: Have vaccines traditionally been a matter of giving someone a protein, antigen, partial or whole pathogen?

Question 2: Does injecting RNA into a human being historically fall under the definition of a vaccine?

Question 3: Was verbiage shifted in the federal register to approve it RNA injection as vaccine?

Question 4: Is this experimental biological gene therapy immune modulatory injection?

Question 5: Has injecting ppl with a synthetic sequence of nucleic acid ever been done on a large scale in human history?

Question 6: Have RNA trials in mammals led to odd cancers and autoimmune diseases from 6 to 12 months after the injection?

Question 7: Is the NIH in bed with Moderna? Can the federal gov't approve a vaccine if there is treatment for a disease?


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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sat Sep-11-21 08:35 PM

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25. "I very clearly noted that what I posted had evrerything to do with the s..."
In response to Reply # 24
Sat Sep-11-21 08:38 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

>Your tactic here seems to be shame all info from a source
>based on OTHER bogus things they've said.

No, that's not my "tactic".

That was my *post*.

*A* post.

In fact I pointed out myself that I hadn't gotten to the claims themselves, but did find things that undermine the credibility of the source.

I said this myself. I also said I'd get to the claims. And I will.

But no, I'm not devoting large portions of my Saturday to investigating those claims. My initial search lead me to what I found above- and I was quite clear that my post was all about the credibility of the source. Because that's what I found.

So stop acting like you caught me in some shady/dishonest "tactic".

If you're going to be "off" anything, it should be this performative grandstanding bullshit.

Thr TLDR version of this is easy:

Me: you didn't source your information. My search so far lead me to these sources, which have serious credibility issues.

You: OMG YOUR WHOLE TACTIC IS TO ATTACK THE SOURCES!

Lastly, none of this changes the fact that you didn't provide a source your information. Yes, information like that should be sourced- and when the sources found are as dubious as the ones I found, it makes the information highly questionable.

As I said before, I'll get to those claims, when I find them.

And one more thing:

I'm not "disregarding" your claims. I'm just not acceptimg them on face value, which is how many reasonable person should approach them, until/unless a credible source can be found to suppprt them.

This is especially true when the sources that can be found are as questionable as what I found above.

There's nothing remotely controversially about that.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sat Sep-11-21 10:56 PM

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30. "Oh I see. You weren't done."
In response to Reply # 25


          

>In fact I pointed out myself that I hadn't gotten to the
>claims themselves, but did find things that undermine the
>credibility of the source.
>
>I said this myself. I also said I'd get to the claims. And I
>will.
>
>But no, I'm not devoting large portions of my Saturday to
>investigating those claims.


Oh ok... so like I said above. I don't care how you feel about the people involved. Either prove the claims wrong or don't. If they're wrong, they're wrong and we'll all be better off knowing the truth.
You did say your reply was halfassed. My bad.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sat Sep-11-21 11:31 PM

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31. "Here's the thing: You've shirked off the burden of proof here."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

You made the claims. The burden to prove those claims is on you.

Yet, you didn't provide a shred of evidence to substantiate those claims.

You didn't cite an actual source. You provided an article swipe that named a person who said something.

In your response to me- which did cite multiple sources to substantiate my own claim that the people i could find that were at least associated to some of your claims have serious credibility issues.

Also: I didn't say my rey was "half assed". Please have more integrity and sincerity than this. It wasn't half-assed at all. It simply addressed the relevant information I'd to that point- and I was clear about was i was addressing.

Even now, after three posts on the subject, you haven't provided citations or sources of any kind to substantiate those claims. I provided sources to substantiate my claim that your sources are dubious.

The lawsuit filed by said dubious organization doesn't mean that the claims within that lawsuit are valid. It just means that they made a claim.

A search on the 12,000% death increase claim turns up a direct refutatuon, explaining how that information is being used out of context.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-12000/fact-check-vaers-data-does-not-prove-covid-19-vaccine-deaths-exceeded-12000-idUSL1N2P21DB

In your prior reply, you said something to the effect that yiu highlighted relevant parts of what you were reading.

The problem is, you're not providing the actual sources. It's not the burden of those reading your claims to verify them. It's on you to provide evidence.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sun Sep-12-21 12:04 AM

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32. "The main point of my reply to FluidJ was to communicate.."
In response to Reply # 31


          

reasons why people are hung up on this vaccination as opposed to other vaccinations. Those are just some of them. I've got no issue with you fact checking any of it. I told you I can't find the other source. Those were just the notes I took.



>Also: I didn't say my rey was "half assed". Please have more
>integrity and sincerity than this. It wasn't half-assed at
>all. It simply addressed the relevant information I'd to that
>point- and I was clear about was i was addressing.


"To that point" being the relevant term... which means you had more work to do. To me, that's halfassed. *shrug*

I'll wait until you're done.




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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sun Sep-12-21 12:34 AM

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34. "You told me to either disprove the claims, or don't."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

You brought the claims forth.

Your main point of bringing them forth doesn't change this fact.

Why do you have such a problem with sourcing and substantiating the claims you introduced to the discussion?

The most half-assed thing in this post is you introducing a claim and not sourcing it, while also criticizing me for providong sources to support my claims of credibility issues with the people who brought the lawsuit.

That may be why people are hung up on the vaccine, but those reasons thus far appear to be fueled by bad faith actors leaning into blatant
misrepresentations.

Further, every article I've found on the lawsuit cites the lawsuit, but so far, it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere at all.

And no, im not reading an 80 page lawsuit.

Why are you resistent to substantiating the claims you introduced?

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sun Sep-12-21 02:48 AM

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36. "Indeed."
In response to Reply # 34


          

>You brought the claims forth.
>
>Your main point of bringing them forth doesn't change this
>fact.


I didn't even present them as claims. Just "notes from a curious nigga trying to do a lil research" but here I am defending them as claims because you're challenging them as such. That's my fault. So again, prove them wrong or don't if that's what you're here to do. You just aren't doing it. Thanks for the links tho.


>Why do you have such a problem with sourcing and
>substantiating the claims you introduced to the discussion?


Idk why you keep asking this. You found the 2nd source, and for the 3rd time, I can no longer find the 1st one. I shared the notes I took.



>That may be why people are hung up on the vaccine, but those
>reasons thus far appear to be fueled by bad faith actors
>leaning into blatant
>misrepresentations.



So then your work here is done, as that seems to be the only point you have. Your articles either aren't answering my questions or are proving my notes right.



>Why are you resistent to substantiating the claims you
>introduced?

For the 4th time, I can no longer find the 1st one. I shared the notes I took. You found the 2nd one. What else do you want? What is it about this that isn't registering to you?


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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sun Sep-12-21 12:08 AM

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33. "Here's are multiple sources regarding the mRNA questions/issues."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

1st: the concept isn't remotely new.

This article cites the journey of a researcher dating back to the 90's:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

This one cites the history of mRNA vaccine research and trials:

https://speakingofresearch.com/2021/08/27/human-mrna-vaccine-trials-in-the-2010s-a-history-lesson-in-animal-research/

This is an article from 2018, citing progress that had, at that point, largely overcome hurdles of instability and inefficiency in vivo delivery of mRNA. It cites the promise of mRNA vaccines, up to and including use as a cancer vaccine.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

You ask about what historically constitutes a vaccine, and whether or not it's included RNA injection into humans.

Well, it's clearly happened prior to COVID.

You ask these questions, but haven't expressed any actual problem with them. It is a new technology, but by no means new in the sense that it hasn't undergone decades of research. It has.

Rather than ask multiple questions about the use of RNA, why not present an actual, researched problem with it?

With sources, of course.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sun Sep-12-21 02:28 AM

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35. "..."
In response to Reply # 33
Sun Sep-12-21 02:31 AM by Boogie Stimuli

          

>This article cites the journey of a researcher dating back to
>the 90's:
>
>https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/


That article actually confirms the fact that mRNA vaccines had never been done on a large scale prior to this. In fact, it calls these companies vaccines "experimental". This is why I'm asking you cite which part of these articles you think are relevant, because it kinda seems like you aren't reading them.


>This one cites the history of mRNA vaccine research and
>trials:
>
>https://speakingofresearch.com/2021/08/27/human-mrna-vaccine-trials-in-the-2010s-a-history-lesson-in-animal-research/



Speaking of sources, one of the only studies there that included human trials (the flu viruses joint) was funded by a Moderna Therapeutics venture, AND the human trials were cited as ONGOING. That's your issue tho. This particular convo wasn't about sources for me.
Most importantly tho, I asked if mRNA vaccines had been done in humans on a large scale before. Is it safe to say your answer is 'no'?


>This is an article from 2018, citing progress that had, at
>that point, largely overcome hurdles of instability and
>inefficiency in vivo delivery of mRNA. It cites the promise of
>mRNA vaccines, up to and including use as a cancer vaccine.
>
>https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243
>
>You ask about what historically constitutes a vaccine, and
>whether or not it's included RNA injection into humans.
>
>Well, it's clearly happened prior to COVID.



There's no way you read that article. You're claiming it says stuff it doesn't say.
In fact, very early in the article, it refers to " live attenuated and inactivated pathogens and subunit vaccines" as "CONVENTIONAL VACCINES" and this is in 2018 (This article just answered "yes" to question 1). It says the 90s trials were done in mice and rats. The article is literally talking about the POTENTIAL of mRNA vaccines... in 2018. But you're telling me mRNA vaccines were historically issued on a large scale TO HUMANS prior to covid? Lol.

If your goal is to prove my initial points right, you're doing a great job here. Which of the 7 questions have you answered with this reply? I pulled the answer to question #1 for you. Can you read your own articles well enough to find answers? Or are you just posting links, thinking you're accomplishing something by citing sources that don't prove your points?


>You ask these questions, but haven't expressed any actual
>problem with them.


You're losing the plot here. Problems are irrelevant, because the fact that the technology is new is enough to make it different from prior vaccines done on a large scale in most folks lifetime. Hell, your own links tell you that. He asked why people are so skeptical about this one as opposed to vaccines of the past. Your own links describe the method as experimental as late as 2018. I know you like to argue and pick fights, but sometimes you could avoid that by just keeping in mind why the conversation even started in the first place.



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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sun Sep-12-21 04:24 AM

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37. "Show me where I said mRNA vaccines have been administered on a large sca..."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

To humans.

Please cut and paste the quote for that.

This is another case where I was clear in what I was saying, and you blatantly repackage it another way, and argue against that.

The first line of my post explains that the concept isn't remotely new, and I posted sources to establish that fact.

>>This article cites the journey of a researcher dating back
>to
>>the 90's:
>>
>>https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/
>
>
>That article actually confirms the fact that mRNA vaccines had
>never been done on a large scale prior to this.

Show me where I said it did. Again: give me the exact quote.

And again: the point was establishing that this is not a new concept


In fact, it
>calls these companies vaccines "experimental". This is why I'm
>asking you cite which part of these articles you think are
>relevant, because it kinda seems like you aren't reading
>them.

The information in these links are relevant to establishing that this ia not a new concept, as stated in the firat line of my post.

>>This one cites the history of mRNA vaccine research and
>>trials:
>>
>>https://speakingofresearch.com/2021/08/27/human-mrna-vaccine-trials-in-the-2010s-a-history-lesson-in-animal-research/

>Speaking of sources, one of the only studies there that
>included human trials (the flu viruses joint) was funded by a
>Moderna Therapeutics venture, AND the human trials were cited
>as ONGOING.


That's your issue tho. This particular convo
>wasn't about sources for me.

Clearly. It was about you citing unsubstantiated claims. It was some "just saying what people are saying", which is absolutely useless.

>Most importantly tho, I asked if mRNA vaccines had been done
>in humans on a large scale before. Is it safe to say your
>answer is 'no'?

Yes. This is a wierd statement though, since in this same post you tried taking me to task for the fact that these don't state that they've been used on a large scale basis in humans, despite me never once saying or even implying that to be the case.

>>This is an article from 2018, citing progress that had, at
>>that point, largely overcome hurdles of instability and
>>inefficiency in vivo delivery of mRNA. It cites the promise
>of
>>mRNA vaccines, up to and including use as a cancer vaccine.
>>
>>https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243
>>
>>You ask about what historically constitutes a vaccine, and
>>whether or not it's included RNA injection into humans.
>>
>>Well, it's clearly happened prior to COVID.
>
>
>
>There's no way you read that article.

False. But keep doing your lil grandstanding.

..You're claiming it says
>stuff it doesn't say.

Let's do this:

You tell me what I said it says. Quote exactly what I said about this one, and I'll reply directly to that claim.

>In fact, very early in the article, it refers to " live
>attenuated and inactivated pathogens and subunit vaccines" as
>"CONVENTIONAL VACCINES" and this is in 2018 (This article just
>answered "yes" to question 1). It says the 90s trials were
>done in mice and rats.

I'll address this after you quote what I said about the article.

>The article is literally talking about
>the POTENTIAL of mRNA vaccines... in 2018.

>But you're telling
>me mRNA vaccines were historically issued on a large scale TO
>HUMANS prior to covid? Lol.

Once again: quote me. Chapter and verse.

Please show me where I said this. It's very cringe to watch you be so smug over something that never happened. But it's pretty clewr that you're more interested in the performance aspect of this, than the actual discussion.

>Which


I pulled the answer to question #1 for you.
>Can you read your own articles well enough to find answers? Or
>are you just posting links, thinking you're accomplishing
>something by citing sources that don't prove your points?

In each exchange with you, I clearly stated my point, and cited relevant sources that made said point.

This is not up for debate. It's just a fact. That you keep arguing things you've only imagined I've said is your own problem.


>>You ask these questions, but haven't expressed any actual
>>problem with them.
>
>
>You're losing the plot here.

I'm not losing anythin

Problems are irrelevant, because
>the fact that the technology is new is enough to make it
>different from prior vaccines done on a large scale in most
>folks lifetime.

No, problems are actually completely relevant here. If the issue is juat that it's new technology, that's irrelevant.

The fact it's "different" is irrelevant.

What matters is whether or not it's successful in it's expressed goal as a vaccine, and whether or not there are significant problems with it.

>Hell, your own links tell you that. He asked
>why people are so skeptical about this one as opposed to
>vaccines of the past. Your own links describe the method as
>experimental as late as 2018.

Yes. That experimentation is a critical part of the process of bringing it "live", so to speak. And that's why each of these sources is relevant.

Because establishing that there is a long history of research leading up to this point is far more relevant to the issue of mRNA vaccines than your empty questions.

It's funny, you're trying to insult me here, saying shit like I didn't read, all because you're too locked into arguing against thimgs I haven't said.

You simultaneously acknowledge that I didn't reply in a way that adhered to your gish gallop of questions, and respond as though I somehow failed in an attempt to do just that.

You're too busy trying to grandstand to see it though.

>I know you like to argue and
>pick fights, but sometimes you could avoid that by just
>keeping in mind why the conversation even started in the first
>place.

Please. This is is just about the dumbest statement anyone's made in this post. This board is brimming with countless arguments and fights- and your name is common as anyone else in those exchanges.

Moreover, between the two of us, you're the one that keeps trying to make it a fight. You've taken several potshots, this one included, that have absolutely no place in the discussion other than to be antagonistic.

I know why the conversation started. That doesn't change what you posted, nor did it change your defensive ass response to me telling you the people behind those claims have credibility problems.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sun Sep-12-21 08:00 AM

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39. "It's the question I asked. I thought you were answering."
In response to Reply # 37


          

My bad. I see now that you're answering a question I didn't ask.
I've asked you to speak directly in response to the questions to make this conversation much easier and less time consuming. You refuse and call them "empty" and a "gish gallop" (so why are you still talking to me?). Cool, so I'll stop trying to get anywhere. Now we're just talking past one another for nothing.


>And again: the point was establishing that this is not a new
>concept


mRNA vaccines on a large scale is new.
That was my question. Now I'm answering it myself.

>Clearly. It was about you citing unsubstantiated claims. It
>was some "just saying what people are saying", which is
>absolutely useless.



Why even respond if what I said was useless? Protect your energy better my guy.


>You tell me what I said it says. Quote exactly what I said
>about this one, and I'll reply directly to that claim.


Let's not. What you said is still there. You can't even reply directly to my questions, so I'm not signing up for more merry-go-round nonsense.



>Moreover, between the two of us, you're the one that keeps
>trying to make it a fight.


Instead of saying "hey bro, you got source for that?" you begin your interaction with me by asking "did you not cite the source because the they're right wing and questionable?" See how your assumptions are already antagonistic from jump? Of course you don't. It's everyone else. You come on here for the purpose of trolling certain people. That ain't my style. Keep your projections and have fun in Case's next religious post.


~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43786 posts
Sun Sep-12-21 07:45 AM

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38. "I appreciate both of you guys' responses. I also applaud the deep dives ..."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

both of you have obviously done on the subject.

I think for me...personally....I guess I put more value and faith in doctors pushing the limits of science in the name of saving lives because of my many many brushes with cancer and disease in my family. Whenever someone has been on their death bed, the first thing we want to know is "Is there ANYTHING you can do Dr.? Any trials, any experimental treatments?? ANYTHING??" so yeah...there's something out here killing millions of people VERY easily...so naturally many people are going to urge and push for the rapid implementation of proven "experimental" treatments...I just don't understand why THIS one all of a sudden is the one where folks are like "WHoooaaa....pump your brakes, I'm not cool with this." ...


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sun Sep-12-21 08:43 AM

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41. "I feel you"
In response to Reply # 38


          

I'm not one to bash anyone for whatever choice they make on this, because I genuinely understand the concerns on both sides.

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Rjcc
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51. "you genuinely understand the concerns"
In response to Reply # 41


          

what if you disingenuously said you understood "both sides" but the entire framework of your statement was actually some bullshit you made up?

what would be different about your actions in that case? Prove it. We can't accept claims without evidence, just like we can't accept claims about mRNA vaccines

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Sun Sep-12-21 08:23 PM

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53. "props for being an adult"
In response to Reply # 41


          

seriously

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Mon Sep-13-21 08:58 AM

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57. "No doubt"
In response to Reply # 53


          

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Rjcc
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47. "you know what they always say"
In response to Reply # 24


          

if someone is absolutely known to be a liar, then you should definitely take their word on everything else

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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45. "well, if someone wrote it, then it's true"
In response to Reply # 22


          

and boogie is still the dumbest motherfucker to walk the planet.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2009 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 02:44 PM

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101. "Whoa,mRNA vaccines are NOT gene therapy. That's really bad misinfo"
In response to Reply # 20


          

Gene Therapy = intentionally altering one's DNA/genome in some way to treat disease (eg. gene editing being explored for conditions like hemophilia, leukemia, blindness, etc https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/gene-therapy/about/pac-20384619)

The molecular bio behind how mRNA vaccination differ centers on a few things:

1. In eukaryotes (the domain humans belong to) our genomes/DNA are contained within the nuclei of our cells. Each nucleus is then surrounded by a pool of cellular machinery and goo called cytoplasm, which is itself surrounded by a membrane made of a mostly fat (aka lipid) bilayer and embedded proteins. This entire structure and its contents constitute what we call a cell;

2. The mRNA delivered by the covid vaccines is produced by scientists externally, not by our cells (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messenger_RNA#/media/File:MRNA-interaction.png <--- in this figure consider the vaccine mRNA the mRNA molecule outside the nucleus), so once introduced it ONLY HAS ACCESS TO OUR CYTOPLASM. It can never interfere or interact with our genomes/DNA or the machinery (eg DNA polymerases) specifically responsible for replicating and editing DNA - because these are located exclusively in the nuclei of our cells, not the cytoplasm;

3. A more accurate way to think of the vaccine mRNA is... like a self-destructing text message sent to your immune system (the "m" in mRNA is even shorthand for messenger RNA). Because, unlike DNA, RNA molecules have a super short half-life in vivo (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170712201054.htm) and are degraded and eliminated from our system soon after their production/use.

So all the mRNA vaccines do is help the self-destructing message enter our cells (via a fat/lipid nanoparticle) so it can quickly inform relevant cell machinery in our cytoplasm (eg. ribosomes) how to TKO this coronavirus (by producing dummy replicas of its achilles heel, the spike protein, which our immune system can now recognize and create targeted antibodies for - https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/understanding/therapy/mrnavaccines). This is VERY different than use of viral vectors for gene therapy (which, for starters, leverages the machinery of *whole viruses* to infiltrate our cells and CORRECT mutated genetic material, just that scientists have adapted the virus so that it works for us rather than doing its usual infection thing). The mRNA vaccine is sending a self-destructing message ABOUT THE VIRUS (about a specific coronavirus protein) to our immune systems, where as gene therapy uses WHOLE VIRUS machinery to correct a genetic abnormality in the host.

Also - there might be discrepancies with the rest of what you wrote too but since there are no sources I won't fret too much. I do just want to point out that regulation of pharmaceuticals and biologics falls exclusively under the FDA tho. A lot of people lump NIH in there bc they fund so much of the research but that's incorrect.




>This is experimental biological gene therapy immune modulatory
>injection. Injecting ppl with a synthetic sequence of nucleic
>acid has never been done on a large scale in human history.
>RNA trials in mammals have led to odd cancers and autoimmune
>diseases from 6 to 12 months after the injection.
>
>Also, if there is a treatment for a disease, the federal gov't
>cannot approve a vaccination. The NIH (who is involved in
>approving medications) cohold the patent to the vaccine with
>Moderna. There you have the gov't in bed with a private
>company, vending a product that they want to give to everyone.
>Conflict of interest. They don't want a therapy to work,
>because then they can't sell the vaccine.
>
>But this just notes from a curious nigga trying to do a lil
>research.

  

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Rjcc
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109. "because boogie is a misinformation agent"
In response to Reply # 101


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Sep-15-21 09:04 AM

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112. "I like Boogie"
In response to Reply # 109


          


Please don't drag me into whatever okbeef you have with him lol

I've always found him cool to interact with on here

This was actually not the first place I've heard/seen the gene therapy thing, but this was the first time I've been able to comment back to the person repeating it

So that's my bad for insinuating he came up with the misinfo in the first place

I don't know where it started but it's surprisingly pervasive

  

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Rjcc
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121. "if someone is trying to con you"
In response to Reply # 112


          

why wouldn't they be cool to interact with?


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13396 posts
Wed Sep-15-21 05:25 PM

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119. "I appreciate the informative and concise response."
In response to Reply # 101
Wed Sep-15-21 05:25 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

Good catch as well, because I didn't even include that in the question list later in the post.
Dude did say quite a word salad there. The only possible excuse I can think of for that, is that the main term was "immune modulatory injection" while "gene therapy" was an adjective? Such as "this is a cookout restaurant" would be saying this restaurant does things that a cookout does, but it's not a cookout and therefore lacks many elements of one? Lol. Like mRNA enters the cell, triggers a response but doesn't alter DNA. But GRANTED, this is a generous interpretation. He could be intentionally misleading people as well. From what I gathered, he was a scientist, so it's hard for me to imagine he didn't know better... plus white folks play word games alot in my experience (one of the pitfalls of communicating in English). Although this may be a controversial statement, I'm not too mad at him for saying it like that, because it forces people to look into it, ask questions, and/or just be discerning of the things going in their bodies. At the very least it can be said and corrected.

Anyway, again I appreciate the catch and the thoughtful response.
I also appreciate you giving me an out in reply 112, but I did share the info, so it's on me... although I'm not standing on any of this strongly at all, because I'm still researching it. You helped a lot.











>Gene Therapy = intentionally altering one's DNA/genome in
>some way to treat disease (eg. gene editing being explored for
>conditions like hemophilia, leukemia, blindness, etc
>https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/gene-therapy/about/pac-20384619)
>
>The molecular bio behind how mRNA vaccination differ centers
>on a few things:
>
>1. In eukaryotes (the domain humans belong to) our genomes/DNA
>are contained within the nuclei of our cells. Each nucleus is
>then surrounded by a pool of cellular machinery and goo called
>cytoplasm, which is itself surrounded by a membrane made of a
>mostly fat (aka lipid) bilayer and embedded proteins. This
>entire structure and its contents constitute what we call a
>cell;
>
>2. The mRNA delivered by the covid vaccines is produced by
>scientists externally, not by our cells
>(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messenger_RNA#/media/File:MRNA-interaction.png
><--- in this figure consider the vaccine mRNA the mRNA
>molecule outside the nucleus), so once introduced it ONLY HAS
>ACCESS TO OUR CYTOPLASM. It can never interfere or interact
>with our genomes/DNA or the machinery (eg DNA polymerases)
>specifically responsible for replicating and editing DNA -
>because these are located exclusively in the nuclei of our
>cells, not the cytoplasm;
>
>3. A more accurate way to think of the vaccine mRNA is... like
>a self-destructing text message sent to your immune system
>(the "m" in mRNA is even shorthand for messenger RNA).
>Because, unlike DNA, RNA molecules have a super short
>half-life in vivo
>(https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170712201054.htm)
>and are degraded and eliminated from our system soon after
>their production/use.
>
>So all the mRNA vaccines do is help the self-destructing
>message enter our cells (via a fat/lipid nanoparticle) so it
>can quickly inform relevant cell machinery in our cytoplasm
>(eg. ribosomes) how to TKO this coronavirus (by producing
>dummy replicas of its achilles heel, the spike protein, which
>our immune system can now recognize and create targeted
>antibodies for -
>https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/understanding/therapy/mrnavaccines).
>This is VERY different than use of viral vectors for gene
>therapy (which, for starters, leverages the machinery of
>*whole viruses* to infiltrate our cells and CORRECT mutated
>genetic material, just that scientists have adapted the virus
>so that it works for us rather than doing its usual infection
>thing). The mRNA vaccine is sending a self-destructing message
>ABOUT THE VIRUS (about a specific coronavirus protein) to our
>immune systems, where as gene therapy uses WHOLE VIRUS
>machinery to correct a genetic abnormality in the host.
>
>Also - there might be discrepancies with the rest of what you
>wrote too but since there are no sources I won't fret too
>much. I do just want to point out that regulation of
>pharmaceuticals and biologics falls exclusively under the FDA
>tho. A lot of people lump NIH in there bc they fund so much of
>the research but that's incorrect.

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Rjcc
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44. "people are very bad at evaluating personal risk"
In response to Reply # 12


          

like, exceptionally bad

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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Sun Sep-12-21 04:38 PM

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48. "also, we've had twenty years of antivax hysteria"
In response to Reply # 12


          

over the measles vaccine, that was completely made up

but a lot of people in the "wellness" community of grifters and snake oil sales have slapped together a worldview that they are actually the experts on everything

there are reasons for that and modern medicine has its flaws, but it's all just bullshit

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13396 posts
Sun Sep-12-21 05:18 PM

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49. "What are those reasons and flaws from your pov?"
In response to Reply # 48


          

>there are reasons for that and modern medicine has its flaws,
>but it's all just bullshit


This might help to answer his question. Just furthering the discussion here. Everybody's view can add something.





~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Rjcc
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Sun Sep-12-21 05:49 PM

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50. "affordable healthcare isn't as accessible and equitable as it should be"
In response to Reply # 49


          

which helps create the cracks that bullshit artists like yourself exploit



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13396 posts
Sun Sep-12-21 06:00 PM

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52. "Oh ok. Thanks for the contribution."
In response to Reply # 50


          

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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handle
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Fri Sep-10-21 05:12 PM

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13. "We we're mandated by an order on August 5th"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/Order-of-the-State-Public-Health-Officer-Health-Care-Worker-Vaccine-Requirement.aspx


1. All workers who provide services or work in facilities described in subdivision (a) have their first dose of a one-dose regimen or their second dose of a two-dose regimen by September 30, 2021:



a. Health Care Facilities:
i. General Acute Care Hospitals
ii. Skilled Nursing Facilities (including Subacute Facilities)
iii. Intermediate Care Facilities
iv. Acute Psychiatric Hospitals
v. Adult Day Health Care Centers
vi. Program of All-Inclusive Care for the Elderly (PACE) and PACE Centers
vii. Ambulatory Surgery Centers
viii. Chemical Dependency Recovery Hospitals
ix. Clinics & Doctor Offices (including behavioral health, surgical)
x. Congregate Living Health Facilities
xi. Dialysis Centers
xii. Hospice Facilities
xiii. Pediatric Day Health and Respite Care Facilities
xiv. Residential Substance Use Treatment and Mental Health Treatment Facilities


Today is basically the last day you can get your first shot for a two dose vaccine and make it. I think the 13th would be the very last possible day by CDC guidelines

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
41431 posts
Fri Sep-10-21 05:44 PM

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14. "Oh this post is gonna get good. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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poetx
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Sun Sep-12-21 11:29 PM

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56. ""good and turrble" (c) Coming to America "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
12268 posts
Sat Sep-11-21 08:52 AM

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21. "how come beltway media never asks..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

why the vast business community isnt fighting against these mandates?

2/3 of the country supports them (even in swing states)...businesses (who bear the burden of implementing/maintaining them) support them...but the press has to validate the consistently nihilistic 1/3 of the country and treat the issue like an evenly divided toss up to justify the horserace coverage.

its funny how repubs positioned themselves as champions of business and free enterprise when it came to the lockdowns...but now theyre all in on preventing businesses from instituting the safety measures that *they* want to institute in the best interest of their business.

also...why are dems not hammering *this* point home? republican governors...who drone on about 'dictatorship/fascism' on the left...are trampling over business agency/independence (especially small business) just to appeal to their ideological fringe base.

------

  

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Rjcc
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46. "Y'all will remember that I've been telling you about boogie for years no..."
In response to Reply # 0


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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handle
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Mon Sep-13-21 09:00 AM

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58. "Liars and idiots trying to get Religious exemptions"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I believe maybe 1% of these folks are liars or idiots.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-12/san-diego-county-healthcare-workers-vaccine-exemptions-religion

SWIPE:
Brett McClain, Sharp’s chief operating officer, said that breakdown sounded familiar.

“I’d say 90-plus percent of our religious exemptions are citing Christian reasons around the stem cells,” McClain said. “The rest are along the lines of, ‘I’m in control of my body.’”

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Sep-13-21 01:36 PM

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62. "I'm all for Religious exemptions"
In response to Reply # 58
Mon Sep-13-21 01:40 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

As long as their religion, and they religious edicts used to request the exemptions demonstrably comports with the observable, verifiable facts of reality.

I.e, if a person says their god forbids vaccines, the just meed to prove that their god actually exists, and prove that said god actually forbids said vaccine.

I also think the person should have to verify that they strictly adhere to *all* the tenets of their religion.

I think that should be the criteria for religious exemptions

If someone can meet that criteria, I'm all for it.

  

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handle
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67. "In the article it makes it clear it's mostly bullshit"
In response to Reply # 62


          

People are saying "My body is my temple" or they are saying "It's comes from aborted fetuses.'

There's no part of that that's actually faith.

And the people with actual faith still are going to be tested twice weekly - at least that's in place.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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68. "I don't need an article to know that"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Mon Sep-13-21 09:17 PM

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78. "You don't need a specific religion you nitwit"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon Sep-13-21 09:22 AM

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60. "I was vaccinated in late March. My job is officially requiring vaccinati..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

or submit to weekly testing by Oct. 15th.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9503 posts
Mon Sep-13-21 09:20 PM

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79. "same here...i was vaxed in April and was ahead of the curve..."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

job required for everyone to submit proof of vax by last week or face weekly testing. the stragglers found out about the deadline and weighed it out lol...most went ahead and took the plunge. bros dont wanna face that weekly swab.

>or submit to weekly testing by Oct. 15th.

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
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Mon Sep-13-21 01:33 PM

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61. "I've Been vaxxed. No one should be forced to be vaxxed. nm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

--------------------------

  

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Rjcc
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Mon Sep-13-21 01:38 PM

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63. "I don't think people should be forced to get vaccinated either"
In response to Reply # 61


          

they just shouldn't be allowed to leave their homes anymore and they will no longer participate in society

easy

personal choice

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
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Mon Sep-13-21 02:12 PM

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64. "Yall crazy as hell. "
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

It wont change the outcome. Only thing is you'll finally realize covid and all its mutations will be with us. We will have to learn to live with it. You will still be wearing a mask even if they do lock all the dirty unclean unvaxxed in their homes.

--------------------------

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Sep-13-21 02:29 PM

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65. "Why do you keep talking about masks?"
In response to Reply # 64
Mon Sep-13-21 02:34 PM by stravinskian

          

Of course we're still wearing masks, and of course we will be for a while. Nobody is disputing that. There's almost nothing in the world that's easier than wearing a mask. The only people who seem particularly bothered by masks are the people still pretending it's not a real disease.

And you're probably right that the virus will not be eradicated and will become endemic. For that, we can thank all these people who employed their personal freedom and stupidity to 'choose not to' get vaccinated.

But right now people are dying in large numbers, and that will continue to happen until we develop herd immunity. That herd immunity will either come by vaccination (no harm, no significant side effects or even plausible theoretical concern), or by widespread infection (hundreds of thousands more people dead). It's pretty fucking clueless and nihilistic to say 'it's here forever, just wear a mask and get over it.'

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
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Mon Sep-13-21 02:35 PM

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66. "vaccinated ppl wanna come out the mask and blame unvaxxed "
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

for mutations.

come on, you know you wanna take that mask off. Most vaxxed people do and the vaxxed are getting fed up with the unvaxxed.

I'm pro choice and against the mandate and very pro mask.

certainly wouldn't want to be lumped in with anti maskers since I've been lumped with anti vaxxers.

--------------------------

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Sep-13-21 03:20 PM

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69. "I never called you anti mask."
In response to Reply # 66


          

But you're playing a silly halfway game with this 'personal choice' business on vaccines. There are people out there who say it's their 'personal choice' whether to wear a mask. I'm pretty sure you would agree with me that those people are exploiting their freedom and needlessly putting others at risk.

People don't have the personal choice to drive drunk, even if they think they're fine. They shouldn't have the freedom to needlessly put others at risk in other ways either.

From everything I've heard, the mutation rate of sars-cov-2 is still very slow compared to other common respiratory viruses. But yes, it is still mutating. It's doing so because it's reproducing in so many people.

Those mutations are not just a US problem. They're caused by low vaccination rates worldwide, and worldwide vaccination rates will probably be low for years. I think that's part of your argument, and I agree with it.

However, the US is still lagging the rest of the industrialized world. So we're not doing our part in the global effort. Also, the US is still relatively isolated from the rest of the world and will remain so until international tourism recovers. So we can reach and maintain herd immunity in the US independent of how the infection rates are going elsewhere.

Yes, new mutations will come. And eventually we'll need boosters to handle them. Thank god for mRNA vaccination technology, which will allow us to fine tune a booster for every major variant we see. Just as long as people grow up and take their fucking shots.

It's not out of the question that we could permanently eradicate this disease. But even if we don't, the number of people who get vaccinated will directly determine the number of people who die.

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon Sep-13-21 03:59 PM

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71. "as football season starts its weird seeing stadiums packed with unmasked..."
In response to Reply # 69


          

people as if the pandemic is over, outdoor and indoor and I know a significant number of these people are not vaccinated.

Announcers saying how glad they are that things are back to "normal"

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Sep-13-21 04:37 PM

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72. "Yeah, though I think we can now safely say..."
In response to Reply # 71


          

... that being outdoors substantially reduces transmission risk. Not necessarily to zero, but enough that it hopefully won't be a driver for major outbreaks.

The fact that we now know it's mostly aerosolized is good news and bad news. The bad news is that there's not much we can do about it indoors other than vaccination and masking (and the fact that it's aerosolized means the masks matter a lot more for those AROUND the masked person than for the masked person themselves, which a hell of a lot of people still refuse to understand). The good news is that if you're outdoors, with just a tiny bit of breeze, it'll dissipate almost immediately.

Sidenote: I saw a story the other day about how this new knowledge of its transmission (and the weight it gives to previously dismissed hypotheses about flu and cold viruses) implies that we should start thinking about the hygiene of shared air in the same way we think about the hygiene of municipal water supplies, that we should start regulating the air handling in public buildings the same way we regulate sewage and water supplies.

But yeah, outdoor events don't concern me as much as the reopening of schools and workplaces in regions with low vaccination rates. Thankfully the new OSHA mandate will blunt this a bit.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2009 posts
Mon Sep-13-21 03:57 PM

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70. "But that is the case, biologically. Unvacc'd ppl serve as reservoir"
In response to Reply # 66


          

when they contract the virus because they are more infectious, due to the virus replicating more in their system which results in higher viral loads (i.e. copies of virus in the system).

This higher viral load is why unvacc'd people are more likely to transmit COVID to others (whether vacc'd or unvacc'd) and are more likely to become much sicker or die as a result of infection (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19057-5). But it also provides the breeding conditions for new COVID mutations because of the heightened level of replication. Some infectious disease experts explain better in this article: https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/03/health/unvaccinated-variant-factories/index.html

Now what's interesting is they're starting to see that "breakthrough" delta variant covid in vacc'd people results in similar viral loads as delta variant in unvacc'd people (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-delta-variant-infections-carry-same-virus-load-unvaccinated/), which was not the case with previous variants. But this just further supports the case for getting vaccinated. Bc even with a similarly high viral load, vaccinated ppl are able to fight back the infection better (i.e. survive it and/or show little symptoms) and are less likely to transmit it (tho they still can, and to guess who? most likely the unvacc'd). But the delta variant was only able to develop into a more powerful coronavirus, worse for everybody, because so many people were still unvaccinated in the first place. .

So, in one sense you're right that COVID will likely always be a problem and that there will always be crazy ass variants - but the incubation of those crazy variants and the resulting deaths they cause will be borne disproportionately by the unvaccinated.


*note: there's prob also an environmentalist argument for why we should try and vaccinate against the virus v. rely on masks long-term too but I suppose that's slightly off-topic


>blame unvaxxed for mutations.
>

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Tue Sep-14-21 08:12 AM

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80. "lol..this is getting so weird...your preoccupation with masks that is......"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
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Tue Sep-14-21 08:50 AM

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81. "Regarding transmission, Masks work. The vax....not so much "
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

I'm pro mask. Put it on your face over your nose.

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Tue Sep-14-21 09:17 AM

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82. "How/why do you say "The vax....not so much" ?? Literally have alive love..."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

ones that survived BECAUSE they were vaccinated....
There are literally MILLIONS of proven cases of survival due to the vaccine.

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
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Tue Sep-14-21 10:15 AM

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83. "TRANSMISSION transmission "
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

reading is fundamental.

apply what I am saying in context to your question or are you frothing at the mouth with anger so much, you cannot remember what you asked me to begin with. smh


This is hilarious to me. Especially as someone who is fully vaccinated.

you do understand people can disagree with you. yall inhere echo chambering and beating each other off. have fun with that and always remember to REAAAADDDDDDD or at least recall your own question dear.

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Tue Sep-14-21 10:32 AM

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84. "I'd recommend checking tensile strength of your goal posts ....."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

All that moving can't be good for them....


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
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Tue Sep-14-21 10:49 AM

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85. "nice deflection but as you stated above....I keep talking about masks.."
In response to Reply # 84
Tue Sep-14-21 10:51 AM by napturalmystic

  

          

Masks work. Masks got all us healthcare workers who wore them properly and consistently out of the tough part of 2020 ALIVE and covid free


I explained why. No goal posts were moved by me.....you on the other hand. well its up there^^^^^^


That all yall do is name call, gaslight and deflect.

You can never go back. Leave folk alone. Worry about yourself

ETA
AND ALWAYS WEAR YOUR MASK lol

--------------------------

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Tue Sep-14-21 11:20 AM

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86. "Why is it either/or with you? Both are necessary. "
In response to Reply # 85


  

          



"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
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Tue Sep-14-21 12:26 PM

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87. "The mask is necessary to reduce transmission. "
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

The vaxx does not reduce transmission, it reduces symptoms, syptoms vaxxed ppl can spread to others.

If an unvaxxed person wears a mask and social distances, they have the same odds of getting covid/variants as they did when there was no vaccine. Remember what we did then? We wore masks.


Yall seem to have lost all critical thinking skills in the lock down.

You wont get your life back. This is the new normal. Stop pretending to care about the unvaccinated. Leave ppl alone and vaxx and booster yourself as much as your tv tells you is necessary. No one will stop you.

--------------------------

  

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FLUIDJ
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Tue Sep-14-21 12:56 PM

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88. "How/why are you so adamantly wrong?? "
In response to Reply # 87
Tue Sep-14-21 12:58 PM by FLUIDJ

  

          

Masks and Vaccines BOTH have the potential to allow for transmission. And they BOTH have the proven ability to minimize, reduce, prevent, etc. transmission.

I suspect (but I do not KNOW nor have I researched it yet) that wearing of masks is more likely to be less effective than a vaccine simply because of the multitude of low grade masks on the market, inability for people to follow simple instructions and wear a mask PROPERLY, the potential for transmission from the surface of the mask itself from mishandling.....

Here are my sources...which i'm sure you'll dismiss as untrustworthy...

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/new-data-on-covid-19-transmission-by-vaccinated-individuals

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-breakthrough-infection-transmission




"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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napturalmystic
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Tue Sep-14-21 01:34 PM

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90. "Masks used correctly have a lower transmission rate than vaccine alone"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

How are you so admantly wrong? I know! You're convinced everyone must get vaccinated.

Keep boxing these ppl in and see what happens.

I'm vaccinated, I mask and probably will for a long after they say I can take it off. BECAUSE IT WORKS. If ppl dont want to be vaccinated I'm fine with it as long as they mask.

--------------------------

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Tue Sep-14-21 02:14 PM

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97. "There you go with the either/or...when literally nobody in this post is "
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

even SUGGESTING vaccines in lieu of masks...yet; that's what you keep inexplicably jumping to....

The sensible approach is both.
Unfortunately there's an extreme lack of sensible people in the USA right now ∴ mandates are the order of the day.

Why is this so difficult for you to wrap your brain around??

There are plenty of laws and rules and mandates that people don't follow....that doesn't mean you just flat out don't make them. That's an illogical conclusion for any rational and intelligent person to come to.


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
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Tue Sep-14-21 03:08 PM

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103. "I am suggesting either or since some ppl don't want the vaxx"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

I'm not for making anyone do anything they don't want to do when it comes to injecting themselves with anything.

If they don't want to mask. They're unreasonable. I'm vaxxed and I mask. Everyone else has to mask. I'm for mask mandates.

I am not for making people vaccinate when we've never had forced vaccinations. There are exemptions and now some aren't even being honored where they have been honored in the past.

Tying mandates to peoples employment is coercion. Rejecting religious exemptions is coercion. If the people don't want to vaccinate and they don't want to mask, they will likely die.

Look we aren't getting out of this.

Why cant yall really just admit you want everyone to get vaccinated so we can have some normalcy. Why is that hard? you're here going back and forth with me bc you're tired.


Me too. I'm tired too. I didn't have the opportunity to work from home like my husband who keeps the same talking points as you. Do You know how many patients I have to tell over and over they can still get covid and transmit it even if they are vaccinated. The proudly profess their vaxx status when I ask if they've had symptoms in the past 10 days. It makes my head explode the vaxxed who dangle their mask and show their nose. My unvaxxed patients show up with saran wrap on their hair, gloves, double masked and plastic lunch lady apron and say they haven't been outside. I HAVE SEEN IT ALL. I'm fucking tired. I've seen frightened people, angry people, deniers and anti maskers in a hospital setting. We are understaffed, over worked (I have no idea where all my coworkers went its hospital wide in every hospital) and still surging.

Even through all this I say people have the right to choose.


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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Tue Sep-14-21 03:26 PM

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106. "Umm, I'm a lightweight introvert and I've rather enjoyed the past year o..."
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

seclusion.....
This society hasn't been normal since 45's first day in office...so normalcy has BEEN out the window IMO....

I haven't enjoyed the death of my family, friends and loved ones....so from that regard you're right...I definitely want to go back to the days when people weren't dropping dead from a virus. And the most expedient path to THAT level of "normalcy" is for people to get vaccinated and continue to wear masks.

People haven't lost their right to choose. They can choose NOT to get vaccinated.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
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Tue Sep-14-21 04:07 PM

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107. "My condolences I'm sorry to hear of the losses you've endured. "
In response to Reply # 106
Tue Sep-14-21 04:08 PM by napturalmystic

  

          

I am an introvert as well so aside from the gym I haven't missed a thing and we built a home gym in the pandemic.

I have not seen most of my family and friends since 2019 indoors or all at the same time and we certainly don't embrace even though we are vaccinated. If I lost my Mom (who isnt vaccinated) or my Dad (who is vaccinated) or any siblings or extended family I'd probably react and feel as you do.

Perhaps I should consider the reasons some go so hard for the vaccine in another light. I'm sorry. I haven't experienced any losses of family or friends. I consider myself blessed but in my blessing I've ignored the pain others must be feeling.

I guess I'm the one who is inconsiderate telling you to mind your business and leave people alone when you've endured losing loved ones. I apologize.

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tariqhu
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Wed Sep-15-21 09:32 AM

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113. "Props for this response."
In response to Reply # 107


          

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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Dstl1
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Wed Sep-15-21 02:15 PM

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118. "❤️ ❤️ "
In response to Reply # 107


          

.

when I threw the rifle in the river,
it looked like Bol Bol was diving in the river - Action Bronson

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43786 posts
Thu Sep-16-21 09:28 AM

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122. "appreciated. "
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

  

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makaveli
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Thu Sep-16-21 07:06 PM

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131. "More people on the internet need to say things like this"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

I don’t see Minaj saying this anytime soon.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2009 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 01:17 PM

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89. "RE: Unvaccinated person has same odds <-- this is extremely false."
In response to Reply # 87
Tue Sep-14-21 01:23 PM by kfine

          

>The vaxx does not reduce transmission, it reduces symptoms,
>syptoms vaxxed ppl can spread to others.
>

>If an unvaxxed person wears a mask and social distances, they
>have the same odds of getting covid/variants as they did when
>there was no vaccine. Remember what we did then? We wore
>masks.
>

There's longitudinal surveillance data now to calculate the odds and relative risk you're alluding to.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm?s_cid=mm7037e1_w

^This is the CDC MMWR from just a few days ago, and they make a point to highlight that it accounts for how much more powerful/transmissable the delta variant is even among the fully vaccinated. And STILL, full vaccination results in ~5X lower risk of infection compared to people who are not vaccinated.

If someone isn't infected, then they can't transmit. So yes, vaccination confers significant protection against transmission. It still happens, and is more likely as the virus mutates to become stronger, but it's rare. And the people most at risk of contracting, regardless of whether it's from a vacc'd or unvacc'd person, are the unvacc'd.

And here's data from King County, WA (they also maintain a dashboard specifically comparing Relative Risk between unvacc'd and vacc'd):

https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx

^Fully vaccinated people are 7X less likely to test positive for infection.

>You wont get your life back. This is the new normal. Stop
>pretending to care about the unvaccinated. Leave ppl alone and
>vaxx and booster yourself as much as your tv tells you is
>necessary. No one will stop you.

Of course, things will never go back to how they were. You're right, we are in a new normal. But the more people that get vaccinated, the more we can make this new normal resemble the old normal to the best of our ability. This difference is a matter of life and death for some people.

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
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Tue Sep-14-21 01:43 PM

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91. "that capture is not what I said at all. READING IS FUNDAMENTAL"
In response to Reply # 89
Tue Sep-14-21 01:47 PM by napturalmystic

  

          

>If an unvaxxed person ------>wears a mask and social distances<---- they
>have the same odds of getting covid/variants as they did
----->when there was no vaccine.<------
Remember what we did then? We wore
>masks.

Stop misquoting me to fit your narrative.

what I said is true. if the unvaxxed social distance and mask they wont get it.

the deniers and anti maskers are the ppl getting it, clogging the hospitals and dying.

People who CANNOT get the vaccine for health issues aren't contracting covid BECAUSE THEY ARE MASKING AND SOCIAL DISTANCING.


Yall pro vax folk are weird as fuck and cant read or comprehend. Its worrisome. I faintly remember someone in another post saying they "tuned out" after getting their vax.

the rightwing nut job crazy deniers are feeling boxed in, they will buck up and something awful will happen if the rhetoric continues. Just let them die. They are dying. I Thought that's what yall wanted. and miss me with the bull about these right wing ppl in red states dying and you care bc you dont. Yall hate them as much as they hate you. maybe this will help the Dems hold their seats with all the red being dead. Stop just stop. you dont care about Po white trash with dont tread on me flags flying from their pick ups in Alabama.

--------------------------

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2009 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 01:55 PM

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92. "Ok, so if masks and social distancing are more effective "
In response to Reply # 91


          


than vaccination, why do vaccinated people account for such small percentages of current cases and mortalities?

Shouldn't we be seeing equal proportions of vacc'd and unvacc'd in those numbers, or even a smaller percentage of unvacc'd in those numbers, if what you're saying is true?


>
>Stop misquoting me to fit your narrative.
>
>what I said is true. if the unvaxxed social distance and mask
>they wont get it.

No, it's not true.

>
>the deniers and anti maskers are the ppl getting it, clogging
>the hospitals and dying.
>

Most data suggests that the majority of those people are also unvacc'd

>People who CANNOT get the vaccine for health issues aren't
>contracting covid BECAUSE THEY ARE MASKING AND SOCIAL
>DISTANCING.
>

Or, perhaps the people around them love them and got vaccinated to reduce the likelihood of transmitting the virus to them.

>
>Yall pro vax folk are wired as fuck and cant read or
>comprehend. Its worrisome. I faintly remember someone in
>another post saying they "tuned out" after getting their vax.
>
>
>the rightwing nut job crazy deniers are feeling boxed in, they
>will buck up and something awful will happen if the rhetoric
>continues. Just let them die. They are dying. I Thought that's
>what yall wanted.
>

I don't want anybody to die

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
6503 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 02:09 PM

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96. "Masks and social distancing are more effective re transmission"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

than vaxx with out mask and social distance


How is this escaping you?


>
>the deniers and anti maskers are the ppl getting it, clogging
>the hospitals and dying.
>

Most data suggests that the majority of those people are also unvacc'd <<----------

^^^^^if you are a denier and anti mask .....the likelihood of you being vaxxed is nil.


again reading comprehension is fundamental.

--------------------------

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2009 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 02:25 PM

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99. "lol"
In response to Reply # 96


          

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20832 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 01:57 PM

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93. "To add to this..."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

mutation is the name of the game. The less transmission, the MORE effective the vaccines are.

So if vaxxers are 7x less likely to transmit, vaxxing should be the way to go in ADDITION to masking and social distancing.

*If unvaxxers who are being irresponsible continue the politicizing of masking and vaxxing, it's highly likely that eventually the virus mutates and becomes even deadlier.

This will reduce the effectiveness of the vaccine and force scientist to adjust on the fly which means until they figure it out, more of us die.

*Key note: Those that are reluctant to get vaccinated but are still out here fighting the good fight with masking, social distancing, good hygiene, etc, I'm not mad at that. Ultimately, wearing the mask is to protect others so they are doing their part. Even if I don't understand why they think 179 million vaxxed Americans are going to start having mass medical issues. Because if that's the case, we're doomed either way.

____________
My Kids:
https://youtu.be/Tti0SHGkpVk
The W5 – “Swerve”
Official Video

Available on:
https://open.spotify.com/album/5ZkYYasL3k8JlvjyN5w1kL
https://tidal.com/browse/album/95038805
iTunes/Apple Music
Google Play

Thanks4UrSupport

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
6503 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 02:05 PM

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94. "RE: To add to this..."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

THIS IS ALL IM SAYING BUT APPARENTLY PPL CANNOT READ


*Key note: Those that are reluctant to get vaccinated but are still out here fighting the good fight with masking, social distancing, good hygiene, etc, I'm not mad at that. Ultimately, wearing the mask is to protect others so they are doing their part. Even if I don't understand why they think 179 million vaxxed Americans are going to start having mass medical issues. Because if that's the case, we're doomed either way.

--------------------------

  

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handle
Charter member
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Tue Sep-14-21 02:49 PM

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102. "They ain't special"
In response to Reply # 94


          

>*Key note: Those that are reluctant to get vaccinated but are
>still out here fighting the good fight with masking, social
>distancing, good hygiene, etc, I'm not mad at that.
>Ultimately, wearing the mask is to protect others so they are
>doing their part. Even if I don't understand why they think
>179 million vaxxed Americans are going to start having mass
>medical issues. Because if that's the case, we're doomed
>either way.

Fuck them and their super special reasoning.

And you think those assholes are going to wear masks?? GTFOH.

The fucking SOUTH and some of the MIDWEST are BANNING MASKS.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
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Tue Sep-14-21 03:10 PM

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104. "Work in healthcare, my unvaxxed families show up with saran wrapped hair"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

glove double masks

why are mad? you can just keep getting boosters. the vaccine protects you.

--------------------------

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20832 posts
Wed Sep-15-21 08:38 AM

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111. "Yeah sis...but the absent part of my post is that..."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

Even if THEY are doing their part, those that don't care to protect others still make them vulnerable. And that vulnerability at 7x more than vaxxed people also contributes to them spreading the virus and it's mutations.

I'm vaxxed and masked and some a-hole comes in spewing non-sense about 'freedoms and tyranny' and sprays a nice vat of covid aerosols in my space, I'm more resistant to it.

Our unvaxxed brethren in the same scenario are more likely to contract and become the reason for a mutation.

Simply put, they are incubators for the idiots and it's not a good look at this point. Even if I do respect their choice and am not mad at their efforts...it's the less intelligent move.

____________
My Kids:
https://youtu.be/Tti0SHGkpVk
The W5 – “Swerve”
Official Video

Available on:
https://open.spotify.com/album/5ZkYYasL3k8JlvjyN5w1kL
https://tidal.com/browse/album/95038805
iTunes/Apple Music
Google Play

Thanks4UrSupport

  

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makaveli
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Thu Sep-16-21 07:04 PM

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130. "You’re wrong, the vaccine does reduce transmission "
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
9939 posts
Mon Sep-13-21 04:47 PM

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73. "is it true that congress"
In response to Reply # 0


          

is not subject to the mandate?

  

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handle
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Mon Sep-13-21 04:55 PM

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74. "Executive branch can't force another branch to do something"
In response to Reply # 73


          

>is not subject to the mandate?
Checks and balances.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
9939 posts
Mon Sep-13-21 05:20 PM

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75. "i don't know"
In response to Reply # 74


          

seems like some bullshit to me. just like pledging allegiance to a flag
when you don't even know what any of that shit truly means. it's
psychotic.

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1451 posts
Mon Sep-13-21 05:21 PM

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76. "But WE GOTTA take it"
In response to Reply # 74


          

And corporations will mandate for them? Sounds a bit like...


"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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handle
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17393 posts
Mon Sep-13-21 07:24 PM

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77. "The fuck are you talking about"
In response to Reply # 76


          

>And corporations will mandate for them? Sounds a bit
>like...
>
>
>"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism
>because it is a merger of state and corporate power." - Benito
>Mussolini
>
>
Biden ordered it for everyone of the branch of government he has aithorty over. That leaves 9 Supreme Court justices, 538 congressmen and senators, and the staff of those 547 people as being the only ones not covered by it. And they can’t be covered by it because of separation of powers. It’s not fascism, it’s separation of powers.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2009 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 02:09 PM

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95. "If I distrusted the mRNA vaccs, the fact that a brainiac Black woman"
In response to Reply # 0


          


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizzmekia_Corbett

millenial committed to health equity (https://www.instagram.com/p/COiEcUmLKAL/) designed it from scratch would dramatically improve my trust.

I'm surprised it doesn't for more people (well, for non-right wingers anyway).

Given the training and certifications she would have had to complete/maintain to even be a millenial progressive scientist involved in Human Subjects Research all these years, there are prob few people more aware of the ugly history and distrust between the scientific community and vulnerable populations. Imho, it's highly unlikely somebody with her background and passion for disparities/inequities is on some Elizabeth Holmes-level corrupt genocidal shit.


Unfortunately, this virus is so politicized that the historic aspect of her involvement isn't celebrated to the extent it should be. But from her bio, we can see Kizzmekia's entire career had been building up to this moment. Pardon me while I stan for sis:


-Just after undergrad, Corbett works at NIH on respiratory synctitial virus pathogenesis (relevant!) and innovative vaccine development (relevant!) from 2006-2009

-During her PhD dissertation defense in 2014 on human antibody responses (relevant!) to Dengue, Corbett gets a random suggestion that she should tackle coronaviruses: https://twitter.com/CameronLabUNC/status/1418524282506907648/photo/1

-By fall 2014, she returns to NIH as a post-doc research fellow/viral immunologist and dedicates her early career to coronaviruses (eg. SARS, MERS, etc due to past outbreaks), focusing on their pathogenesis (relevant!) as well as development of novel coronavirus vaccines (super fucking relevant!).


Cut to 2020: As one could have predicted, human civilization experiences yet another coronavirus outbreak after the 2 last decade. But this time, Corbett's not only been studying respiratory virus pathogenesis, coronavirus pathogenesis, human antibody responses, and vaccine innovation for like 15 years, but she's now positioned herself as the leader of a high visibility research group at a high visibility institution (which, as a millenial Black woman in that area of science, would have already been some unicorn shit) able to meet this high visibility moment and almost single-handedly advance vaccinology by like a century:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJD0YHRj_kb/

I mean, damn! Can we give this brilliant sis some props please? I feel like Kizzmekia's story is such vindication for the fresh eyes and ideas of not only younger generations but underrepresented racial and gender groups as well. To advance the way she did, at her age, and especially in that particular area of science? She would have had to have gone way beyond just "doing everything right" and been no less than a fucking rock star. So, I'm ready to change the narrative about these mRNA vaccines from one of distrust to one of fucking BLACK EXCELLENCE. An okplayery progressive black millenial just made a Nobel Prize calibre scientific contribution (and mind you NO BLACK PERSON HAS EVER WON A NOBEL PRIZE FOR PHYSIOLOGY/MEDICINE) that will likely save billions of lives. That's cool af! And by getting the vaccine, we can not only do our part for personal and public safety, but showing support for Kizzmekia and Black professionals like her everywhere trying to blast past old ass gatekeepers and be great. The development, effectiveness, and innovation of these COVID mRNA vaccines is probably the most globally impactful achievement by a Black millenial to date, and hardly enough people are talking about it. Let's change that!


  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
6503 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 02:17 PM

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98. "Eunice Rivers Laurie"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

nm

--------------------------

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2009 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 02:31 PM

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100. "Thank you for showing me how Black anti-vaxxers would view her."
In response to Reply # 98


          


Disappointing but not unexpected.


I choose to see the brilliance in Kizzmekia's work and hope to see more Black professionals with bright ideas elevated like she was.

  

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napturalmystic
Member since Feb 15th 2006
6503 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 03:20 PM

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105. "Oppenheimer thought his work was genius while he was doing it"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

when he saw the result he said otherwise. “Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.”

I'm not an antivaxxer. I'm pro choice. the long term effect of the vaxx remain to be seen.

I'm fully vaxxed and about to schedule my flu shot. As I do every year.

I'm no respecter of persons when it comes to people based on race. People make mistakes and plenty of black folk have fucked over other black folk. Science can always end up bad over time. No one knows the long term effects. I'd rather live to see the long term than be taken out by covid. If others don't, its their choice to take it or not take it.

If the vaxx works why u worried about the unvaxxed? just get your booster.

--------------------------

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2009 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 04:17 PM

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108. "You're right. Let me stop celebrating anything a Black person does."
In response to Reply # 105
Tue Sep-14-21 04:25 PM by kfine

          

I normally prefer to let problems in someone's actual track record/actions sour me before I turn up the criticism, but why not hate right out the gate based on what other people have done? Seems reasonable.

For someone so supportive of "choice" tho, I must say you're awfully committed to undermining the hard science and data supporting vaccine effectiveness. Even bringing your arguments down here, in response to a post completely unrelated to our back-and-forth above.

You're a vaxxed anti-vaxxer and it's ok, lol. I'm just glad you're vaccinated. That said, you're educating me a whole lot bc while I know a few vaxxed deniers, who I suspect would have chosen not to vaxx if not for their jobs (like you they're also allied health careworkers), they are def not as militant with their ideology as you are.

So seeing how you reason is helping me understand what they too might be thinking... along with possible intervention points. lol

edit: before you come for me again, let me just say I'm not saying you too are a denier, and you're pro-mask which the anti- individuals I know are not. But all of you vocalize doubt about the vaccines, so that's the similarity.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4273 posts
Tue Sep-14-21 05:09 PM

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110. "Full ICUs should be enough for you to stop now"
In response to Reply # 105
Tue Sep-14-21 05:14 PM by Stadiq

          

>If the vaxx works why u worried about the unvaxxed? just get
>your booster.

The problem is that unvaxxed are ALSO typically anti-mask.


So we have to worry about the unvaxxed. Because, if literally nothing else, they are filling up ICUs.


If your argument is to also add a mask mandate, I'm on board.


And I agree, fully vaxxed were way too quick to drop the mask- especially when the Biden admin said it. Huuuuugggeee mistake.


Mask mandates aren't coming back. These stupid motherfuckers are shutting down school board meetings, etc over masking unvaxxed kids.


So, yes...tie the vaxx to their job. They won't mask up, so make them vax up.

Simple as that.


And yes, Vaccines are mandated all the time. To go to school. To join the military. To work in the healthcare system I work in. To travel to certain areas.


Your pro-choice rhetoric is bullshit. As I said, the same folks won't choose to wear a mask.

And their choice to neither mask nor get the vax- if nothing else- is killing healthcare systems.


So their "choice" to not mask and not get vaxxed = full healthcare systems unable to give other care.

Fuck that choice.

Not to mention the the virus evolving, etc.


So yes, everyone should mask up for a long while.


But everyone should also get vaxxed. If someone doesn't understand the mRNA technology and is scared, is there not the J & J option?


See...choice. They can choose which one to get.


Or I suppose they can choose to quit their job.


Or, we can accept we live in a society and this idea of ultimate freedom of choice is naive horse shit.

You can't choose to drive drunk, you legally have to wear your seatbelt, etc.


Your pro mask argument is sensible. The rest just sounds like anti-vaccine hysteria mixed with Libertarian bullshit.

We are in unprecedented times and need to use every tool that we have.



  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
14180 posts
Wed Sep-15-21 10:43 AM

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114. "i wonder what will happen at my job"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

ive been fully vaccinated and i think a couple months back they said we were at like 80%

i know two coworkers that have been saying they will quit if they make them get the vaccine, one of them is very important to our success.

seemed like he was making a fake vaccine card this morning until the other coworker told him they can check it lol

city wide we are near 75% fully vaccinated for eligible people

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
5500 posts
Wed Sep-15-21 11:16 AM

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115. "RE: i wonder what will happen at my job"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

>ive been fully vaccinated and i think a couple months back
>they said we were at like 80%
>
>i know two coworkers that have been saying they will quit if
>they make them get the vaccine, one of them is very important
>to our success.
>
>seemed like he was making a fake vaccine card this morning
>until the other coworker told him they can check it lol
>
>city wide we are near 75% fully vaccinated for eligible
>people

I'm worried that people are gassed up and willing to die on this hill. AKA I think some folks will for real quit if they get a mandate put on them.

A bunch of 'law and order' people have fallen in love with 'freedom' and don't want to follow any 'laws' that don't suite their whims and feelings that they get injected into them by their tunnel-vision online travels.

And the Great Resignation propaganda has a bunch of earthlings feeling really froggy about leaving their gigs a few months of rainy day funds and, in many cases, some untested idea of how they can make money in some other way.

  

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handle
Charter member
17393 posts
Wed Sep-15-21 11:44 AM

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116. "Hope they quit"
In response to Reply # 114


          

>i know two coworkers that have been saying they will quit if
>they make them get the vaccine, one of them is very important
>to our success.

I'd love to hear the next job interview when they ask "Why are you switching job?" "I quit my last job because I didn't follow the legal rules because I know better than the 180 million people who got vaccinated and had no ill effects."

The interviews will think "This guy is a TEAM PLAYER!!!"

We had someone in our group who wasn't going to get it, but guess what - they got it.


------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1451 posts
Wed Sep-15-21 02:12 PM

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117. "RE: no ill effects"
In response to Reply # 116


          

See I think this lie here is why there is such a big pushback against the vaxx....

NO ill effects? VAERS has over 5k deaths reported this year and tens of thousands of adverse events. The rest of the world? Cmon...this is not NO ILL EFFECTS and 100% completely safe.

It should be an easy point to give some leeway and understanding....how hard is it to say "I know you may be concerned about safety since this one is much less safe than other vaccines, but the technology will continue to improve and death rate is still a tiny fraction of ppl who got vaxxed, look at the other data and pls reconsider?"

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
14180 posts
Wed Sep-15-21 05:48 PM

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120. "RE: no ill effects"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

"I know you may be concerned about safety since this one is much less safe than other vaccines, but the technology will continue to improve and death rate is still a tiny fraction of ppl who got vaxxed, look at the other data and pls reconsider?"

do you have numbers on how much safer other vaccines are compared to this one?

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1451 posts
Thu Sep-16-21 03:17 PM

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125. "CDC - VAERS website"
In response to Reply # 120


          

Theres like 5-10 deaths a month for 30 years running, now theres thousands.

THAT MUST BE BULLSHTI THOUGH

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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handle
Charter member
17393 posts
Thu Sep-16-21 10:30 AM

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123. "If you are referencing VAERS submisisons as a reliable source..."
In response to Reply # 117


          

>NO ill effects? VAERS has over 5k deaths reported this year
>and tens of thousands of adverse events. The rest of the
>world? Cmon...this is not NO ILL EFFECTS and 100% completely
>safe.
5,000 PROVEN deaths? orNot proven bu credible and under investigation?"

or Jsut 5,000 non-verified liars submitting data.

Here's what the CDC says about it:
" Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 380 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 13, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,653 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths "


So we know that 1 in 500 Americans has died of COVID, which is .02%.

So VAERS reported 0.0020% death rate (unverified and most likely BULLSHIT.)

So you think it's reasonable and that people need more time to determine the risks??

.02% chance of dying without vaccine and .002% of dying from the vaccine?? Do you understand numbers and risk? (I'll give you some very small percentage of the vaccinated die from COVID still.)

>
>It should be an easy point to give some leeway and
>understanding....how hard is it to say "I know you may be
>concerned about safety since this one is much less safe than
>other vaccines, but the technology will continue to improve
>and death rate is still a tiny fraction of ppl who got vaxxed,
>look at the other data and pls reconsider?"

First: Fuck these people, their fears ARE unreasonable. And they don't seem to have a fear of catching COVID. Do we just let them stay in status until they produce more variants, jam our hospitals, and die suffering??? (There may be some actual people with actual medical conditions that actually shouldn't take the vaccine - but it's no one you know.)

Every disease and every treatment have risks - the risk from the vaccines is incredibly stupefying low and the risk once catching the disease is tens to hundreds of times higher.

Death rates from APRIN USE are much higher than from vaccine administration.

They probably have some large percentage who don't believe that masks help - like senator Rand Paul.

And what "technology improvements" are you talking about/ Does that just lead to their fear of "it was developed too quickly?"

Stop coddling these folks. It's been nearly 10 months since the first vaccines were administered and even FOX NEWS can't find a poster person to show how harmful they are.(They aren't harmful.)



------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1451 posts
Thu Sep-16-21 03:14 PM

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124. "RE: If you are referencing VAERS submisisons as a reliable source..."
In response to Reply # 123


          

>>NO ill effects? VAERS has over 5k deaths reported this
>year
>>and tens of thousands of adverse events. The rest of the
>>world? Cmon...this is not NO ILL EFFECTS and 100%
>completely
>>safe.
>5,000 PROVEN deaths? orNot proven bu credible and under
>investigation?"
>
>or Jsut 5,000 non-verified liars submitting data.

This is where ya'll are disingenuous as shit. Ya'll CARE about ppl dying but if they die from a vaxx they are just liars. There are VAERS equivalents in UK, EU, etc and theres thousands dead there too...


More vaccine deaths in 6 months than the last 30 years combined....ya its definitely a more risky vaxx than previous ones, that shouldnt even be debatable.

Not to mentions the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people with thrombosis, myocarditis, etc...?





>
>Here's what the CDC says about it:
>" Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More
>than 380 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered
>in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September
>13, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,653 reports of
>death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.
>FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after
>COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether
>the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS
>following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily
>mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of
>available clinical information, including death certificates,
>autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal
>link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a
>plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19
>Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood
>clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths "
>
>
>So we know that 1 in 500 Americans has died of COVID, which is
>.02%.
>
>So VAERS reported 0.0020% death rate (unverified and most
>likely BULLSHIT.)
>
>So you think it's reasonable and that people need more time to
>determine the risks??

Yes, I have no problem with people waiting it out a bit. If they are worried, especially with underlying conditions, absolutely yes.


>.02% chance of dying without vaccine and .002% of dying from
>the vaccine?? Do you understand numbers and risk? (I'll give
>you some very small percentage of the vaccinated die from
>COVID still.)

I undestand that 0.02% chance of dying is LOW AF. Mandating a vaxx with a lower rate isnt an apples to apples comparison.


>
>>
>>It should be an easy point to give some leeway and
>>understanding....how hard is it to say "I know you may be
>>concerned about safety since this one is much less safe than
>>other vaccines, but the technology will continue to improve
>>and death rate is still a tiny fraction of ppl who got
>vaxxed,
>>look at the other data and pls reconsider?"
>
>First: Fuck these people, their fears ARE unreasonable. And
>they don't seem to have a fear of catching COVID. Do we just
>let them stay in status until they produce more variants, jam
>our hospitals, and die suffering??? (There may be some actual
>people with actual medical conditions that actually shouldn't
>take the vaccine - but it's no one you know.)

Or maybe I have multiple fam members with blood clot / heart conditions and they CANT TAKE THE VACCINE or are scared shitless of it? I dont really do anecdotes though but since you wanna push that horseshit ...


>
>Every disease and every treatment have risks - the risk from
>the vaccines is incredibly stupefying low and the risk once
>catching the disease is tens to hundreds of times higher.
>
>Death rates from APRIN USE are much higher than from vaccine
>administration.
>
>They probably have some large percentage who don't believe
>that masks help - like senator Rand Paul.
>
>And what "technology improvements" are you talking about/ Does
>that just lead to their fear of "it was developed too
>quickly?"


Yall are the ones tauting the mRNA tech and how they been working on it and perfecting it long before COVID. Maybe they actually perfect it down the line and are able to address some of its shortcomings or side effects? Is that really too much to ask for?

>Stop coddling these folks. It's been nearly 10 months since
>the first vaccines were administered and even FOX NEWS can't
>find a poster person to show how harmful they are.(They aren't
>harmful.)
>

My problem with all this reasoning is simple....The virus has a 0.02% death rate (per you), which is apparently enough to shut down the world and mandate masks/vaccines/etc....

But as soon as somebody dies from the vaccines ya'll be like "o they old, they obese, thats a lie"

Theres hundreds of examples of funny stats and lies with COVID death numbers that ya'll dont care about, but vaccine deaths are just swept under the rug.

I think its inconsistent and hypocritical, and it fully washes away the whole "I care about other ppl dying" narrative ya'll pushing. The more ya'll type the more it seems ya'll dont care about others, you are just scared.

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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handle
Charter member
17393 posts
Thu Sep-16-21 03:52 PM

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126. ".02% of ALL AMERICAS"
In response to Reply # 124


          

1)More than 650,00 Americans have died since 202. FOCUS ON THTA NUMBER and not just the percentage.

2)PROVE that there have been thousands of deaths from the vaccine. Self-reporting tools are not acceptable as proof.

And WHATEVER you find then compare it with the numbers of ACTUAL DEATHS reported from COVID.

The benefits of the vaccine so far outweigh the risks by THOUSANDS of times.

And yes, if you have an ACTUAL disease or condition that means you can't take the vaccine THEN MAKING EVEYRONE TAKE IT GREATLY BEEFITS YOU TOO.

>I think its inconsistent and hypocritical, and it fully washes away the whole "I care about other ppl dying" narrative ya'll pushing. The more ya'll type the more it seems ya'll dont care about others, you are just scared.

That's about the bitch-est move I've ever seen. You sound like Tucker Carlson, or Sarah Palin. You are what happens when rubber meets glue.

I get it - you can't judge risk - and you're reasoning is twisted and stupid.

Let me repeat: If you have an actual medical reason that prevents you from taking the vaccine then you can just get tested instead.

And if there is no reason other than you think you are special and that the vaccine is actually killing people at a high rate - you just have to prove it - or shut the fuck and admit that YOU are scared.

Not taking the vaccine is being scared, telling people to take it when you are already vaccinated is not scared.


------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1451 posts
Thu Sep-16-21 06:21 PM

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129. "Ya'll realize these mandates aren't excluding my people?"
In response to Reply # 126


          

I see both you and CT saying that the vaxx will help my people who can't take it. Fair. I appreciate your acknowledgement and flexibility.

Unfortunately the state they live in, their employers, their childrens schools, or even their friends seem to care about that at all - they are getting yelled at to get vaxxed even if they could die from it.

So appreciate ya'll but that's not really how this is going out there in the real world...

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42307 posts
Thu Sep-16-21 04:07 PM

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127. "Nobody has issues with people who can't vaccinate. "
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

>This is where ya'll are disingenuous as shit. Ya'll CARE
>about ppl dying but if they die from a vaxx they are just
>liars. There are VAERS equivalents in UK, EU, etc and theres
>thousands dead there too...

I'm sorry, but you're just wrong about this- and it shows that you're the one being disingenuous. The issue that is consistently echoed about VAERS is that those are unverified reports.

In fact, the VAERS website makes this crystal clear:

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html

They go as far as saying, "Reports vary in quality and completeness. They often lack details and sometimes can have information that contains errors."

And they go into a fair amount of detail about this. Hell, this is the opening statement on their own site:

"When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established."

So no, nobody is saying that if they die from being vaccinated, they're just liars. It's that the data source that is, as far as I can tell, the most often cited for this, is by it's own admission wrought with serious limitations, which makes this particular data point questionable.

So the issue, yet again, is sourcing. And you're being egregiously disingenuous by saying that people are saying that anyone who dies from a vaccine is just a liar. That's not happening.

If you want a better response to that data, provide a better source.

>More vaccine deaths in 6 months than the last 30 years
>combined....ya its definitely a more risky vaxx than previous
>ones, that shouldnt even be debatable.

Do you have a better data source than VAERS?

>I undestand that 0.02% chance of dying is LOW AF.

Do you think death is the only issue here?

Because it's not.

Further, that's pretty high in the context of a full blown, global pandemic.

>Or maybe I have multiple fam members with blood clot / heart
>conditions and they CANT TAKE THE VACCINE

If that's the case, then why are you so angry with the mandate?

Because vaccines are an integral element of developing heard immunity. The data shows that unvaccinated people are quite clearly at a significantly higher rate of infection, severity of infection, and death.

Which means the loved ones you speak of are precisely why herd immunity is vital. You yell CANT TAKE THE VACCINE as though ANYBODY who is pro vaxx and passionately anti-anti vax thinking are also saying that those who cannot get vaccinated should get it too.

You have this point exactly backward.

or are scared
>shitless of it? I dont really do anecdotes though but since
>you wanna push that horseshit ...

You're talking about people who are scared shitless, and your big data point is from a source that very clearly and meticulously explains, on their own website, that there are significant limits to what their data can objectively convey- up to and including causality.

Your entire argument rests on anecdotes.

>Yall are the ones tauting the mRNA tech and how they been
>working on it and perfecting it long before COVID. Maybe they
>actually perfect it down the line and are able to address some
>of its shortcomings or side effects? Is that really too much
>to ask for?

YES., YES IT IS, given the incredibly bad reasons you've cited.

In fact... at least one is already FDA approved.

>My problem with all this reasoning is simple....The virus has
>a 0.02% death rate (per you), which is apparently enough to
>shut down the world and mandate masks/vaccines/etc....
>
>But as soon as somebody dies from the vaccines ya'll be like
>"o they old, they obese, thats a lie"

NO, as addressed above. Not only is your data badly sourced, you're grossly misrepresenting the reason most people dispute the vaccinated death reports- which is the badly sourced data you're using.

  

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The Mac
Member since Feb 11th 2008
1451 posts
Thu Sep-16-21 06:18 PM

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128. "RE: Nobody has issues with people who can't vaccinate. "
In response to Reply # 127


          

I would reply point by point but since theres 1 thing you keep harping on...

What source would you like me to use if VAERS is the ONLY US source for vaccine adverse events??

LOL the fact that it's a shitty source is an indictment on the CDC and their own reporting system, not ME.

The only other point to make here is that there is 0 long term study of effects and AEs, so you really have no clue either way...

Cause I'm doing better now, don't mean I never lost shit/ I was married to a state of mind and I divorced it -- Black Thought

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42307 posts
Thu Sep-16-21 07:31 PM

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132. "The source you choose is absolutely an indictment of you"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

>I would reply point by point but since theres 1 thing you
>keep harping on...

No, I made other points as well. Specifically and significantly, I addressed your assertions that we think people who die of the vaccine are liars, your rant about people who cannot get vaccinated,

>What source would you like me to use if VAERS is the ONLY US
>source for vaccine adverse events??

It's not really my job to do your research for you.

But if the only information you can find to support yout position is one where causation cannot be verified, then you have nothing.

>LOL the fact that it's a shitty source is an indictment on the
>CDC and their own reporting system, not ME.

Sorry, but if your primary issue is based on a specific data point that cannot be verified, and your are made aware of this priblem, and you still choose to proceed as though your claims are backed by accurate data, it's absolutely on you.

You're demonstrating that you're willing to believe something dor which no good evidence actually exists, and worse, in the face of good evidence to the contrary.

In other words, you place more stock in a largely baseless belief than you are facts.

>The only other point to make here is that there is 0 long term
>study of effects and AEs, so you really have no clue either
>way...

Yes, there's a certain amount of calculated risk here- with decades of science behind it.

But over the short term? There is clear and demonstrable evidence that unvaccinated people run a significantly greater risk of infection, severity of infection, and death, all while relying on anecdotal evidence that does not verify causation- which is a massive problem.

  

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