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Subject: "Haiti President assassinated" Previous topic | Next topic
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79618 posts
Thu Jul-08-21 05:42 PM

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"Haiti President assassinated"


          

https://apnews.com/article/haiti-president-jovenel-moise-killed-b56a0f8fec0832028bdc51e8d59c6af2



PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti (AP) — Gunmen assassinated Haitian President Jovenel Moïse and wounded his wife in their home early Wednesday, inflicting more chaos on the unstable Caribbean country that was already enduring an escalation of gang violence, anti-government protests and a recent surge in coronavirus infections.

Claude Joseph, the interim prime minister, confirmed the killing and said the police and military were in control of security in Haiti, where a history of dictatorship and political upheaval have long stymied the consolidation of democratic rule.

While the streets of the Haitian capital, Port-au-Prince, were quiet Wednesday morning, some people ransacked businesses in one area. The country appeared to be heading for fresh uncertainty ahead of planned general elections later this year. Moïse, 53, had been ruling by decree for more than a year after the country failed to hold elections and the opposition demanded he step down in recent months.

Former President Michel Martelly, whom Moïse succeeded, said he was praying for first lady Martine Moïse, calling the assassination “a hard blow for our country and for Haitian democracy, which is struggling to find its way.”

Joseph said Martine Moïse, 47, was shot and in a hospital. He condemned the president’s killing as a “hateful, inhumane and barbaric act.”

“The country’s security situation is under the control of the National Police of Haiti and the Armed Forces of Haiti,” Joseph said in a statement from his office. “Democracy and the republic will win.”

A resident who lives near the president’s home said she heard the attack.

“I thought there was an earthquake, there was so much shooting,” said the woman who spoke on condition of anonymity because she fears for her life. “The president had problems with many people, but this is not how we expected him to die. This is something I wouldn’t wish on any Haitian.”

The U.S. Embassy in Haiti said it was restricting U.S. staff to its compounds and that the embassy would be closed Wednesday because of ’’an ongoing security situation.″

The White House described the attack as “horrific” and “tragic” and said it was still gathering information on what happened. U.S. President Joe Biden will be briefed later Wednesday by his national security team, spokesperson Jen Psaki said during an interview on MSNBC.

“The message to the people of Haiti is this is a tragic tragedy,” she during a previously scheduled interview on CNN. “And we stand ready and stand by them to provide any assistance that’s needed.”

Haiti’s economic, political and social woes have deepened recently, with gang violence spiking heavily in Port-au-Prince, inflation spiraling and food and fuel becoming scarcer at times in a country where 60% of the population makes less than $2 a day. These troubles come as Haiti still tries to recover from the devastating 2010 earthquake and Hurricane Matthew that struck in 2016.

Opposition leaders accused Moïse of seeking to increase his power, including by approving a decree that limited the powers of a court that audits government contracts and another that created an intelligence agency that answers only to the president.

In recent months, opposition leaders demanded the he step down, arguing that his term legally ended in February 2021. Moïse and supporters maintained that his term began when he took office in early 2017, following a chaotic election that forced the appointment of a provisional president to serve during a year-long gap.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
!!!
Jul 07th 2021
1
damn Haiti cant catch a break man
Jul 07th 2021
2
Goddamn
Jul 07th 2021
3
foreign policy wonks, geo-politics nerds...whats the 10k foot view?
Jul 07th 2021
4
you know he scared plenty of people when he said he wanted
Jul 07th 2021
5
Ruling a 3rd world country
Jul 07th 2021
6
i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do...
Jul 07th 2021
7
      RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do...
Jul 07th 2021
8
           RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do...
Jul 07th 2021
15
                RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do...
Jul 07th 2021
16
                     RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do...
Jul 08th 2021
17
                          RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do...
Jul 08th 2021
20
                               RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do...
Jul 08th 2021
21
Ok, so stumbled on this old-ish oped re:Haiti, Venezuela, PetroCaribe,
Jul 07th 2021
9
      Great find! Gotta read this later
Jul 07th 2021
10
      np
Jul 07th 2021
11
      thanks so much for this. i came on okp specifically to see if someone
Jul 07th 2021
12
           np.and I know wym. found this other piece abt line of succession drama
Jul 07th 2021
13
                I don't think the murder and the covid death are related
Jul 08th 2021
19
                     Right.Ya, your analysis makes a lot of sense.
Jul 08th 2021
22
                          OK wow, lot of info I didn't know
Jul 09th 2021
24
Supposed suspects —
Jul 09th 2021
23
#floridaman at it again smh lol
Jul 09th 2021
25

kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 09:14 AM

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1. "!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          


holy shit


hope things don't destabilize too much more


it's stll so wild to me when these happen

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
10145 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 09:17 AM

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2. "damn Haiti cant catch a break man"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

from storms to political violence and corruption...stays chaotic

  

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Hitokiri
Charter member
22108 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 09:51 AM

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3. "Goddamn"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Hope Haiti can find some stability, but this shit is crazy.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22151 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 10:33 AM

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4. "foreign policy wonks, geo-politics nerds...whats the 10k foot view?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

what was at stake for killing the president?

what will the domino effect be on a global scale from this?

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 11:40 AM

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5. "you know he scared plenty of people when he said he wanted"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

an army again

but the dude was hanging on to power too long after being voted out and people that didn't support him obviously weren't with that

Supposedly the shooters were Venezuelan (all I heard in the original report is they spoke Spanish but someone else said they were from Venezuela). Not sure how that plays into politics of the region, if at all.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79618 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 11:55 AM

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6. "Ruling a 3rd world country"
In response to Reply # 5


          

is like being a mob boss in a shitty crime family


We know how these stories end.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
10145 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 02:41 PM

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7. "i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

(if anything) had he been elected. they genuinely seem to love him over there and he seems like hes removed from the corruption etc that goes on with Haiti...could he have turned it around, at least partially? the powers that be seemed dead set against giving him a shot.

  

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rdhull
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33137 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 03:01 PM

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8. "RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>(if anything) had he been elected. they genuinely seem to
>love him over there and he seems like hes removed from the
>corruption etc that goes on with Haiti...could he have turned
>it around, at least partially? the powers that be seemed dead
>set against giving him a shot.


Because he wasnt corrupted, he'd no doubt be assassinated

  

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ThaTruth
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99998 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 10:14 PM

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15. "RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do..."
In response to Reply # 8


          

>>(if anything) had he been elected. they genuinely seem to
>>love him over there and he seems like hes removed from the
>>corruption etc that goes on with Haiti...could he have
>turned
>>it around, at least partially? the powers that be seemed
>dead
>>set against giving him a shot.
>
>
>Because he wasnt corrupted, he'd no doubt be assassinated

didn't he steal from his own bandmates?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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rdhull
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Wed Jul-07-21 10:36 PM

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16. "RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do..."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>>>(if anything) had he been elected. they genuinely seem to
>>>love him over there and he seems like hes removed from the
>>>corruption etc that goes on with Haiti...could he have
>>turned
>>>it around, at least partially? the powers that be seemed
>>dead
>>>set against giving him a shot.
>>
>>
>>Because he wasnt corrupted, he'd no doubt be assassinated
>
>didn't he steal from his own bandmates?
>

hey genius, were talking political corr.., never mind , its you

  

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ThaTruth
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99998 posts
Thu Jul-08-21 06:35 AM

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17. "RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do..."
In response to Reply # 16


          

>>>>(if anything) had he been elected. they genuinely seem to
>>>>love him over there and he seems like hes removed from the
>>>>corruption etc that goes on with Haiti...could he have
>>>turned
>>>>it around, at least partially? the powers that be seemed
>>>dead
>>>>set against giving him a shot.
>>>
>>>
>>>Because he wasnt corrupted, he'd no doubt be assassinated
>>
>>didn't he steal from his own bandmates?
>>
>
>hey genius, were talking political corr.., never mind , its
>you

So he was corrupted in the music business, you don’t think he’d be tempted to be corrupted in government?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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rdhull
Charter member
33137 posts
Thu Jul-08-21 03:02 PM

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20. "RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do..."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

>>>>>(if anything) had he been elected. they genuinely seem
>to
>>>>>love him over there and he seems like hes removed from
>the
>>>>>corruption etc that goes on with Haiti...could he have
>>>>turned
>>>>>it around, at least partially? the powers that be seemed
>>>>dead
>>>>>set against giving him a shot.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Because he wasnt corrupted, he'd no doubt be assassinated
>>>
>>>didn't he steal from his own bandmates?
>>>
>>
>>hey genius, were talking political corr.., never mind , its
>>you
>
>So he was corrupted in the music business, you don’t think
>he’d be tempted to be corrupted in government?
>


why dont you ask mikedigzzz above who raised the point?

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Jul-08-21 04:50 PM

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21. "RE: i have wondered in the past what Clef would have been able to do..."
In response to Reply # 20


          

>>>>>>(if anything) had he been elected. they genuinely seem
>>to
>>>>>>love him over there and he seems like hes removed from
>>the
>>>>>>corruption etc that goes on with Haiti...could he have
>>>>>turned
>>>>>>it around, at least partially? the powers that be seemed
>>>>>dead
>>>>>>set against giving him a shot.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Because he wasnt corrupted, he'd no doubt be assassinated
>>>>
>>>>didn't he steal from his own bandmates?
>>>>
>>>
>>>hey genius, were talking political corr.., never mind , its
>>>you
>>
>>So he was corrupted in the music business, you don’t think
>>he’d be tempted to be corrupted in government?
>>
>
>
>why dont you ask mikedigzzz above who raised the point?

were you not the one that brought up corruption? my bad lol

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 03:14 PM

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9. "Ok, so stumbled on this old-ish oped re:Haiti, Venezuela, PetroCaribe,"
In response to Reply # 5


          


the US, etc and seems like pretty wild context.

I must say I don't follow the region much and wasn't aware of the whole PetroCaribe experiment and how controversial it was.

And now I'm confused as to who might've wanted to take out Moise more lol.. Venezuelan Chavez/Maduro loyalists, disgruntled Haitian populists, the US/CIA, or some ensemble of the 3 Bay of Pigs style.

I had no idea Caribbean geopolitics has been this grimey the last number of years; I swear all we hear about are hurricanes and inflation.

Would you happen to know the posture of DR in this mix? Like, not just towards Haiti but also VZ and US?


https://haitiliberte.com/haitis-unfolding-revolution-is-directly-linked-to-venezuelas/

Haiti’s Unfolding Revolution Is Directly Linked to Venezuela’s
Kim Ives - February 13, 2019

Chaos reigns in Haiti for a seventh straight day as its masses continue to rise up nationwide to drive President Jovenel Moïse from power for his corruption, arrogance, false promises, and straight-faced lies.

But the crisis won’t be solved by Moïse’s departure, which appears imminent.

Today’s revolution shows all signs of being as profound and unstoppable as that of 33 years ago against playboy dictator Jean-Claude “Baby Doc” Duvalier, whose Feb. 7, 1986 flight from Haiti after two months of rebellion to a golden exile in France on a U.S. Air Force C-130 cargo plane was just the beginning of five years of popular tumult.

Despite fierce repression, massacres, a bogus election, and three coups d’état, that uprising culminated in the remarkable political revolution of Dec. 16, 1990, when anti-imperialist liberation theologian Jean-Bertrand Aristide was elected President in a land-slide and then, declaring Haiti’s “second independence,” inaugurated on Feb. 7, 1991.

At a time when Nicaragua’s Sandinistas and the Soviet Union had just been vanquished, the Haitian people defeated Washington’s election engineering for the first time in Latin America since Salvador Allende’s victory in Chile two decades earlier. Haiti’s example inspired a young Venezuelan army officer, Hugo Chavez, to adopt the same play book, and hence began a “pink tide” of political revolutions via elections across South America.

Just as Washington had fomented a coup against Aristide on Sep. 30, 1991, it carried out a similar one against Chavez on Apr. 11, 2002. But the latter was thwarted after two days by the Venezuelan people and army’s rank-and-file.

Despite this victory, Chavez understood that Venezuela’s 1998 political revolution that had brought him to power could not survive alone, that Washington would use its vast subversion machinery and economic might to wear down his project to build “21st century socialism” in Venezuela, and that his revolution had to build bridges to and set an example for his Latin American neighbors, who were also under Uncle Sam’s thumb.

Thus, using Venezuela’s vast oil wealth, Chavez began an unprecedented experiment in solidarity and capital seeding, the PetroCaribe Alliance, which was launched in 2005 and eventually spread to 17 nations around the Caribbean and Central America. It provided cheap petroleum products and fabulous credit terms to member nations, throwing them an economic life-line when oil was selling for $100 per barrel.

By 2006, Washington had punished the Haitian people for twice electing Aristide (1990, 2000) with two coups d’état (1991, 2004) and two foreign military occupations, handled by the United Nations. The Haitian people had managed to win a sort of stalemate, by electing René Préval (an early Aristide ally) as president.

On the day of his May 14, 2006 inauguration, Préval signed up for the PetroCaribe deal, greatly vexing Washington, as outlined by Haïti Liberté in its 2011 reporting using WikiLeaks-obtained U.S. secret diplomatic cables. After two years of struggle, Préval eventually got Venezuelan oil and credit, but Washington made sure to punish him too. Following the Jan. 12, 2010 earthquake, the Pentagon, State Department, and then-head of the Interim Haiti Recovery Commission Bill Clinton, with some flunkies from the Haitian elite, virtually took over the Haitian government, and in a November 2010 to March 2011 election process, they pushed out Préval’s presidential candidate, Jude Célestin, and put in their own, Michel Martelly.

From 2011 to 2016, the Martelly group went on to embezzle, misspend, and misplace the lion’s share of the capital account known as the PetroCaribe Fund, which had basically kept Haiti afloat since its creation in 2008.

Martelly also used the money to help his protégé, Jovenel Moïse, come to power on Feb. 7, 2017. Unfortunately for Moïse (having come to power just as Donald Trump did), he was about to become collateral damage in Washington’s escalating war against Venezuela.

Surrounded by a gaggle of anti-communist neo-cons, Trump immediately stepped up hostility against the Bolivarian Republic, slapping far-ranging economic sanctions on Nicolas Maduro’s government. Haiti was already in arrears in its payments to Venezuela, but the U.S. sanctions now made it impossible to pay their PetroCaribe oil bill (or gave them a golden excuse), and the Haiti PetroCaribe deal effectively ended in October 2017.

Life in Haiti, which was already extremely difficult, now became untenable. With the Venezuelan crude spigot now closed, Washington’s enforcer, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), told Jovenel he had to raise gas prices, which he tried to do on Jul. 6, 2018. The result was a three-day popular explosion which was the precursor to today’s revolt.

At about the same time, a mass movement began asking what had happened to the $4.3 billion in Venezuelan oil revenues which Haiti had received over the previous decade. “Kot kòb PetroCaribe a?” – “Where’s the PetroCaribe money?” – growing thousands of demonstrators asked. The PetroCaribe Fund was supposed to pay for hospitals, schools, roads, and other social projects, but the people saw virtually nothing accomplished. Two 2017 Senate investigations confirmed that the money (the second report said $1.7 billion) had been mostly diverted into other pockets.

So, what was the straw that broke the camel’s back? It was the treachery of Jovenel Moïse against the Venezuelans after their exemplary solidarity. On Jan. 10, 2019, in a vote at the Organization of American States (OAS), Haiti voted in favor of a Washington-sponsored motion to say that Nicolas Maduro was “illegitimate,” after he won over two-thirds of the vote in a May 2018 election.

Already, Haitians were angry about the unbridled corruption, hungry from skyrocketing inflation and unemployment, and frustrated from years of false promises and foreign military humiliation and violence. But this spectacularly cynical betrayal by Jovenel and his cronies, in an attempt to win Washington’s help to rescue them from the growing fires beneath them, was the last straw.

Surprised and paralyzed by its lack of options (and its own internal squabbles), Washington is now watching with horror the not-so-sudden collapse of the rotten political and economic edifice it has built in Haiti over the past 28 years since its first coup d’état against Aristide in 1991 until its latest “electoral coup d’état” which brought Jovenel to power in 2017.

The U.S. Embassy is surely feverishly seeking to cobble together a stop-gap solution, using the UN, OAS, Brazil, Colombia, and the Haitian elite as their helpers. But the results are likely to be no more durable than they were in the late 1980s.

Ironically, it was Venezuelan solidarity which may have postponed for a decade the political hurricane now engulfing Haiti.

It is also fitting that U.S. aggression against Venezuela’s Bolivarian revolution has created a cascade of unintended consequences and blowback, fed by the Haitian people’s deep sense of gratitude and recognition for Venezuela’s contribution to them, just as Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro often said that PetroCaribe was given “to repay the historic debt that Venezuela owes the Haitian people.”

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 03:32 PM

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10. "Great find! Gotta read this later"
In response to Reply # 9
Wed Jul-07-21 03:38 PM by T Reynolds

  

          

to answer your question about DR all I know is that they closed the borders immediately.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 04:06 PM

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11. "np"
In response to Reply # 10


          


>to answer your question about DR all I know is that they
>closed the borders immediately.

And I see. Still an interesting tidbit tho, as small as it seems

  

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poetx
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Wed Jul-07-21 08:25 PM

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12. "thanks so much for this. i came on okp specifically to see if someone"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

had a read on this subject.

i'll look at other stuff, but this is very helpful.

i definitely don't trust whatever official word is coming out.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Wed Jul-07-21 09:50 PM

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13. "np.and I know wym. found this other piece abt line of succession drama"
In response to Reply # 12
Wed Jul-07-21 10:13 PM by kfine

          

too lol

Apparently, the person who is supposed to take over as Head of State if something happens to their Pres is the leader of their 'Cour de Cassation' (Supreme Court equivalent). However, that person - Rene Sylvestre - died of covid just a few weeks ago.

What are the chances a Pres gets taken out right after his successor dies, and there's zero connection?

I wouldn't question anybody wondering if there's more to the story given all the shady regime change history in the region. It's understandable.


https://haitiantimes.com/2021/07/07/line-of-succession-unclear-following-moise-assassination/

Line of succession unclear following Moïse assassination

BY SAM BOJARSKI
JUL. 07, 2021

As Haitians worldwide awoke to the news of President Jovenel Moise’s assassination Wednesday morning, some expressed consternation about the process of naming a successor.

“Already there’s a succession discussion happening, and I think that’s going to bring about more violence as well,” said Charles-Edouard Denis, a business owner based in Petionville. “I thought these days were behind us.”

The line of succession to succeed Moise, who was assassinated at his home in Pelerin, Port-au-Prince by unidentified gunmen, is unclear.

Supreme Court president dead from COVID

The president of Haiti’s Cour de Cassation, Haiti’s equivalent to the Supreme Court, would be next in the order of succession, but the last person to hold that position, Rene Sylvestre, died of COVID-19 last month, according to media reports.

The role has since been left vacant.

Controversial Constitution

Haiti’s current 1987 constitution states that the vice president of the court, or the next-highest official on the court, would be temporarily granted the powers of the presidency. However, the 1987 Constitution states that the National Assembly needs to confirm the appointment.

Haiti’s parliament was dissolved in January 2020, and Moise has ruled by executive decree since then.

Currently in effect is a 2012 amendment to the 1987 Constitution, stating that the prime minister assumes the role of the presidency in conjunction with the council of ministers following the death of a sitting president. The document also states that if there is a vacancy from “from the fourth year of the presidential mandate,” the National Assembly will meet to elect a provisional president.

Moise began his five-year term in 2017 following a controversial election the previous year.

Haiti’s current constitution itself has been called into question, with the Moise administration planning to hold a referendum on a new constitution in September. Haiti’s government published a draft constitution earlier this year that has not yet been approved. That draft was due for a vote via referendum in September.

Country in between prime ministers

On July 5, Moise announced that he was appointing a new prime minister, Ariel Henry. However, current interim prime minister Claude Joseph has said in media reports that he is currently running the country in the wake of Moise’s death.



^edit: ok so starting to see how pieces fit together... Ariel Henry, the person Moise selected to take over as Prime Minister/Head of Government 2 days before his death, is left-wing and member of the Inite party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Henry) that Haiti's past pro-PetroCaribe/Vz President Prevel headed in the 2000s.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Thu Jul-08-21 09:08 AM

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19. "I don't think the murder and the covid death are related"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

Given the terrible covid situation and the chronic political instability I think the two are mutually exclusive

Then again, we see who had the most to lose prior to Moise's murder was Joseph the outgoing PM, who has also done the most to fill the power vacuum by instituting what is basically martial law instead of recognizing the PM appointed by Moise prior to his murder.

Another theory I've heard casually not in print is that could be Colombian mercenaries due to description of their being light-skinned Spanish speakers and having extensive experience with coordinated hits via the drug trade. Obviously hitmen like that would be hired by those that have the most to gain from Moise's death. IN THEORY.

The US backed Moise but were not happy with the political unrest caused by his move to rewrite the constitution and remain in power.

I am having doubts about the hitmen remaining in Port-au-Prince to be captured after they did the job. So news today about the police catching and killing these guys is highly suspect.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Thu Jul-08-21 08:37 PM

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22. "Right.Ya, your analysis makes a lot of sense. "
In response to Reply # 19


          

I think where I'm at now is... even assuming Moise's successor's covid death was natural and unplanned, the void in the line of succession provided a unique opportunity (especially with their parliament suspended) to hollow out the power vaccuum completely by assassinating Moise. So I guess I don't see the incidents as mutually exclusive per se... but maybe A could have precipitated B without B being the cause of A?


And in terms of motive, I oddly find my attention pivoting away from the ethnic composition of who actually carried out the mission and more and more towards hints of statecraft. lol


For example, if one believes (like I do) Moise's successor's natural death could have precipitated plans to assassinate Moise next, then the few weeks that transpired since his successor's death (which was June 23) kinda narrow the field somewhat in terms of state and/or non-state actors who would even have the capabilities to plan and carry out such an elaborate regime change op in that little time. Even the most experienced cartel from X country probably wouldn't be organized enough to pull it off with the effectiveness and speed we saw - or at least not on their own (as you also point out). The op did come across like something that's been done before. Right down to the efficiency with which Moise's wife, who's reportedly in critical condition, was found and transported in time back to the US for emergency medical attention.


And I agree with your suspicion of the profoundly stupid narrative that various assassins (or "masterminds" as I saw one outlet call them lol) would just lollygag around Port-au-Prince waiting to be caught lol. I also think the energy (or lack thereof?) from the Haitian people speaks volumes here. Like, if it *had* been a homegrown assassination job... given how unpopular Moise was, wouldn't there be more of a popular response from the population?? Who were just protesting against him not too long ago? I mean the whole incident just feels very "produced".


Additionally, lots of commentary seems to suggest Moise had so many enemies that it's hard to pinpoint a single suspect/suspected group. But to a state actor, such confusng optics (both domestically and on world stage) would be advantageous for the plausible deniability.

For example, going off the footage caught by nearby residents that's been floating around (which I first saw on cnn):

https://twitter.com/madanboukman/status/1412944291224240129

we hear multiple accents and languages used, ranging from english spoken with (what to me sounds like) a very american accent, to kreyol (I think?), to spanish etc... which would have also been advantageous tactically to confuse not only the targets but their staff, witnesses, bystanders, and so on. I also saw one haitian commenter lament how easily Moise's security personnel must have surrendered to "some white guys with guns", which might be one of the smartest interpretations I've seen of the whole DEA announcement thing. Meaning, I don't necessarily believe the assassins were actual DEA agents, but regardless of if they were, it seems another effective tactic was to leverage (White) race and (the US) state to feign authority and compel Moise's security personnel (some of whom may have been vigilantes/gang members or have ties to illicit trade anyway) to drop their weapons and comply as the mission played out.


In terms of who had the most to lose/gain tho, I think your assessment of Joseph as well as Moise's fall from (US) grace is spot on. But rather than suspect a power grab on Joseph's part.... I wonder now whether Moise's selection of Ariel Henry may have been the real straw that broke the camel's back, with Joseph just a convenient (but "Core group"-backed and -controlled) beneficiary?? Bc there's reporting (like this french language article taken down by VOA: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache: 9LLnw48JknUJ:https://voadiaspora.com/ariel-henry-nouveau-premier-ministre-propose-par-g9-nomme-par-jovenel-moise/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) that Ariel Henry was the preferred PM choice of G9/Haitian populist vigilantes and that they pushed for his selection, which to me points more to *Moise* desperately trying to cling to power (especially in the face of such unpopularity).


But most importantly, Moise selecting a left-winger (former member of the Social Democratic Party, Haitian Revolutionary Progressive Nationalist Party, and later leftist Fusion of Haitian Social Democrats party before landing at the current INITE party according to this article/bio: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/haiti/article252574293.html) as Head of Government in response to populist pressure was probably the boldest message he could've sent the US and other Core Group powers that he'd gone unapologetically rogue (i.e. governing with Henry would have: directly contradicted the anti-Maduro/VZ stance he was pressured to take at the OAS that killed PetroCaribe; boosted, with neighbors VZ and Cuba, the left-polarity of the region; and made Haiti an overnight adversary of US posture towards other left govs in the region eg. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-20/u-s-rejects-maduro-s-call-for-biden-to-lift-venezuela-sanctions ). The Core Group swiftly "deciding" Joseph will remain PM until elections are finally held also kinda suggests distaste for Henry among the powers that be (https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/un-special-envoy-haiti-says-joseph-remain-prime-minister-now-2021-07-08/).


So ya lol at this point I've pretty much settled on the assassination being a collaborative effort by major/usual players, and a geopolitical event as opposed to a revolutionary event. If that's what really happened tho, it's truly wild this playbook keeps getting used.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Fri Jul-09-21 09:24 AM

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24. "OK wow, lot of info I didn't know"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

Initially, Moise flaking on PetroCaribe after taking their money, basically defaulting on the alliance with Socialist governments in order to placate Western powers and secure the bag seemed like something that could warrant some blowback from VZ.

But I didn't know the PM Moise named to succeed Joseph as PM to placate the G9 / Haitian populist groups (who I have been told are left out of the white Marxist publications like Haiti Liberte's narrative of what is going on in Haiti), and that the compromise with populist internal forces spearheaded by Henry could have put the target on Moise's back so that Joseph could usurp control using emergency measures. Actually sounds pretty plausible.

Going to check those links you provided about Henry's background. Thanks!

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Fri Jul-09-21 06:04 AM

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23. "Supposed suspects — "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/haiti/article252648093.html

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Fri Jul-09-21 09:25 AM

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25. "#floridaman at it again smh lol"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

  

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