Because I want to fight about Hip-Hop on a Wednesday and no better Warz than Drake base Generations Warz.

Only two choices because I really don't see any middle ground on this.


This is a question of LL Cool J's place on the Hip-Hop Mt. Rushmore as it is about Drake.

Who you got?

Poll result (34 votes) Wat?, heck no! Wheelchair Jimmy seeing no parts of Todd Smith! (20 votes) Vote Of course, Drake has decades of Jams like LL. (14 votes) Vote

He could never be on prime LL’s level. LL blazed the path, set the blueprint. Others just followed.

I don't fuck with Drake at ALL.

Can you post some Drake as LL's "The Ripper" type flows, I'm seriously interested?

I honestly haven't heard anything like that from him.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

and i'm not talking about skill, because rap itself was different so i'm adjusting for skill.

what i'm talking about is their musical output, popularity, etc.

and the reason i'd put Drake above at this point is because Drake's catalog is MUCH more respected than LL's.

LL has huge songs, etc. but his WHOLE albums don't have the same cache as Drake's do.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

assuming you eat meat, if money wasnt an issue where would you rather get dinner

but to answer: sometimes i want steak, sometimes i want a Big Mac and fries.

can't eat steak everyday (unless you want gout).

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

Sometimes popular nouns are trash

There's no doubt that Drake has had a continuous string of big hits. But does he have the same impact & importance to his generation that LL had to ours?

My personal answer is "No." I don't hate Drake but I'm admittedly biased towards my own generation's artists. I honestly don't know the answer but I'm here for the debate.

Sure there might have been competition and beef between individual emcees or whatever....
but as a FAN?? A kid growing up with hip-hop (the music, the culture, the everything...)?!?!
We were basically on some "YES PLEASE MORE!" ....

LL could do no wrong....
Like...I think that Shark's Fin track he dropped was the first time I was on some "Pass" shit when it comes to LL.
Drake though?? .... yeah...nah.... I'm sure he got fans that would/have jumped ship without batting an eye.

about (or use to talk about) Biggie, Jay-Z & Nas.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

go to criticism for Cole

all my nephews and nieces love Cole.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

and Cole is back w/ the rest of the pack.

<--- Big Baller World Order

<--- Big Baller World Order

<--- Big Baller World Order

<--- Big Baller World Order

He's a giant cornball and has been leaning into that since the Hotline Bling video

Dude makes emo songs about strippers and models and isn't afraid to show a level of vulnerability LL and other rappers from time frame would never think of

And I LIKE Drake, but nobody is believing his tough guy talk

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

09/10

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYpnINrZM_M

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

speaking as someone who didn't get into hip hop until the early 90s. "mama said knock you out" was completely lost on me as i didn't have context for the "comeback." i really liked "doin it" and "pink cookies..." but almost entirely because of the instrumentals. i can't even recall any lyrics that i like from him. maybe the goofy sea creature couplet he had on the "flava..." remix and even then all i can muster up is "baracuda"

Where am I?

I don't know this world, lol.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

His legacy is sustained not by merit but by being in the right place at the right time.

And baby oil.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

when he walked in and said Box..

we all walked out of the movie theatre screaming about that dude named LL Cool J who stole the movie

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

are two of the best albums ever from an emceeing standpoint.

If some underground dork had spit those rhymes in 96, you all would still be making “LL changed my Life” t-shirts and shit.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

that was on Flava in Ya Ear, and it was one line.

let alone have them strategically placed within a classroom in a fashion that would allow him to facilitate setting 30 emcees free from their doom.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

Drake still needs that one defining body of work.

He is pre-blueprint Jay-z w/o "Reasonable Doubt". He has had a TON of Hard Knock Life's, Big Pimpin's, and Where I'm From's

but he really needs a "Blueprint" level work to solidify it.

Even Kanye has one (or more) of those and he isn't the kind of MC Drake is.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

Starting with So Far Gone, Certified Lover Boy will be his 11th abum

abd you're still holding onto some kind of hope that isnt coming

I don't think the generation that grew up on Drake the way I grew up on the “Streets Is Watching” VHS would agree with you.

They revere every “time stamp” record he has done the same way.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

The bar is low if Aubrey is the Jay Z of this generation

I absolutely revere LL.

I, in general, just don't fuck with today's MC's.

There are exceptions, but these E.T-voiced cats are the worst to me.

Big Sean, Drake, there are a few others I've heard where I'm just waiting for them to say "Ellllioootttt". That's not a voice I want to hear in an MC. Even Common, is his most "I got a a cold" voice doesn't bother me.

But this E.T shit... Can't rock with it. It's just not for me.

And that's an issue, because I don't think I'm alone here. I think there are a lot of late 30's/early 40's cats who don't quite gel with this current generation of artists for similarly aesthetic reasons.

And I hear a lot of heads, where their critique is, essentially, "this ain't real hip hop" or "this ain't REAL music, REAL music is (insert old head name here)".

And the fact is, for a lot of people, the times just past them by. I know I'm largely trapped in the 90's and early 00's. Not entirely, but significantly.

And I think that right there disqualifies many from this discussion, because there's such a huge aesthetic difference at play, and sometimes there's great shit that just isn't for you.

I like Drake here and there. When i like a Drake joint, I really like it. But when I don't? It's a fucking frisbee. So he just ain't for me. But his status, stature, output, influence, impact, longevity at that level is arguably as big as anyone we've ever seen.

So he's in this discussion, whether some of us like him or not. It just means that some of us should probably bounce from the discussion.

What are we comparing them on?

Rapping and lyrical ability or just commercial hits?

It’s like no one is ever having the same conversation.

I will go a bit further than you though.

As far as impact and influence and hits etc...I agree with you 100%. Drake has to be up there. Although, I don’t like giving credit if you influence a bunch of wack shit.

However, MCing is still MCing...period.

And Drake is nowhere near as good as LL in that category. I too am annoyed by the ET voice but I’m equally annoyed by the “spit 2 bars and then let the beat rock for a bar and then spit another 2. I just can’t rock with that lazy ass shit. That Lemon Pepper joint is like 6+ minutes and he starts at like 2 so I’m thinking he’s gonna go in. This dude spent 4 minutes spitting like a total of 12 bars son!

I can’t with that shit.

Another thing is that we only do this type of shit in hip-hop. I don’t recall any conversations around Britney Spears being a better singer than Whitney Houston.

It’s way past the time to split hip-hop up into various genres. Rock did it. Artists like Britney just fall under Pop. Why can’t we just do that shit to avoid the comparison?

Drake would fall into Pop.
Lol

Like He is Jay-Z and has old man emeritus status to lot of much younger people and Today's MC would be folks like Da Baby & Pop Smoke.


I partly ask this question because Drake Hate has long been an OKP thing but at this point dude has been at it so long and has so many hits and big albums it would take a particularly crusty old head to not acknowledge it at this point. You, unlike others here, at least acknowledged that part.

BTW, I just started getting into Big Sean recently because his last album was super dope and dude has gotten into Wellness which I can dig.


Like these joints:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcGfpFHtpNs&list=PLxA687tYuMWj08mrictzMpZo7m8apRabh&index=11

https://music.youtube.com/browse/VLPLVXEAAVgpjHF4JEL1WVSuVWpVXL3u-oBM

That shit is dope....but I guess if you hate his voice it isn't going to work.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but Drake still songs too much for me to compare him to LL.

I have never listened to a Drake album tho.. besides his first
mix tape.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Could probably make a good point if you wanted to talk about Pop music since there are fewer rules there.

---
Love,
Nopayne

neither i think are mt rushmore level, just below.

i think to be at mt rushmore you have to have the catalog with critical acclaim as well as the impact and influence. LL has more of the critical acclaim than drake but since that is very subjective its not a big enough difference to put them on different levels.

kendrick is probably at their level overall but right on the edge of reaching mt rushmore with one more great project.

for my personal top neither are top 50, but thats my taste and 100% subjective. LL has an argument to be on it but his style isnt really my vibe.

...

on the world stage that is.

I'm certain off name drop alone, that would def. be where notoriety wise they'd fall....
and the broader the circles...the greater the chasm between the 3 would be too...

He's one of the earliest, and biggest crossover superstars in Hip Hop.
He earned stripes in battles on wax.

He, alongside the Beastie Boys, put motherfucking Def Jam on the map, and alongside Run DMC, pushed hip hop into a new stratosphere.

And not with Rappers Delight-levels of novelty (that's a whole other discussion). Radio is a classic.

I Need Love created a new genre, laying a blueprint for countless artists to follow, with varying degrees of success and quality. But the formula was significant, particularly for it's time, and particularly coming from him at the time.

He reinvented himself in the mid-nineties with a string of hits where he perfected that formula.

He popped back up AGAIN in the early 00's on some Neptunes shit. Yeah, the same dude who did Radio and Rock The Bells was killing it on Neptunes tracks nearly two decades later.

His battle with Canibus is legendary, and a notable moment in hip hop.

I got so much more to write here, but it's fucking baffling to say that he's shy of Mt Rushmore. This man has done ALOT.

Each his own, this is largely subjective, and I got serious love for LL, so I'm impassioned here. You're not a moron or someone who doesn't know hip hop or anything like that, so I'm not trying to diss or shit on your opinion here.

I just think LL has gotten a little lost in the collective memory of hip hop. The man was a fucking monster of an artist, spanning two decades. Everything wasn't a homerun, but the things that hit were high level. And there were a lot of them.

Edit: PUT SOME MOTHERFUCKIN RESPECT ON THIS MAN'S NAME!

That is all.

impact and influence is something LL has down. longevity is something he does have as well.

he has good music but i dont think its the best of the best level. i think im too young to fully appreciate how hard LLs music hit people. his early stuff doesnt hit me like run-dmc or whodini does, doesnt compare to rakim, bdk or bdp to me quality wise (at least from the pov of someone discovering it a decade after). mid/late 90s he was more of a movie star, the music he put out then didnt touch me at all. didnt check for any music he released post 2000, cant speak on it. that said, he is worthy to be in the conversation but to me falls short of being in the top 4/5 of all time.

mt rushmore cant have everyone that was great, it should be very limited. LL would be on the list to consider but wouldnt make the cut, i think.

With «Headsprung» lmao ://

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

<--- Big Baller World Order

hes not for me. the time that hes from feels alien to me.

that said...just because i can't relate, doesnt mean I don't acknowledge his impact.

it would be different if we were talking about someone who came and went

Drake dropped his first mixtape in 2006 and has been a presence since forever.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

It's wild to me.

But a lot of cats of a certain age are too stuck in their own boxes to even recognize greatness in things that exist outside of them.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

Is being a "presence" really a feat when you're manufactured that way?

He exists in the same realm as Diddy and Jay as bloodsuckers of every new artist/trend, adding nothing new to the conversation. Just bloated stream numbers and alcohol marketing.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

...

......................................
http://gravalicious.tumblr.com/archive

"Now, I don’t know ’bout you, but I need two things working every day: my mind and my meat." - Lamont "U-God" Hawkins

Cold Truth laid out a strong resume for LL in another post.

Of course Drake has been big for a long while. He's probably moved a ton of units, made millions of dollars and maintained a permanent spot on the charts.

But what is his impact? Did he establish trends? Did he define a sound? Does he have classic albums or just a strong run of singles? How has he influenced the next generation of rappers?

Since I'm a good bit outside of this generation, those are the kinds of things I'm looking for in this post.

>
> Cold Truth laid out a strong resume for LL in another post.
>
> Of course Drake has been big for a long while. He's probably
>moved a ton of units, made millions of dollars and maintained
>a permanent spot on the charts.
>
> But what is his impact? Did he establish trends? Did he
>define a sound? Does he have classic albums or just a strong
>run of singles? How has he influenced the next generation of
>rappers?
>

Things Drake has impacted:

- The entire sound of hip hop - Drake's sonic palette has permeated multiple generations at this point. Drake & 40 even changed the way rap records and pop records are mixed. Forward present vocals with top end rolled off on the instruments + popping drums.

- Voice - Drake's actual tone and voice are a blueprint for an generation of rappers (especially white rappers). Much like the Beastie Boys or Eminem in the past his tone and style have become a gateway for rappers who aren't specifically from the hood.

- Globalism - Drake has aided bringing global hip hop cultures to the US Hip Hop mainstream. From Caribbean influence in his music to Toronto's to the Uk Grime and Afro beat scene etc. On "So Far Gone" Drake was rapping on Lykke Li and santigold records. He took that "blog era" diversification of instrumentals and made them mainstream "Take Care" (Jamie XX, Rihanna, Gil Scot Heron) or One Dance (Wizkid, Kyla).


- Creating Stars - The Weeknd being the most notable but there was a run where (similar to 50cent) Drake was putting everyone on (Migos, Kendrick, Asap Rocky, Majid Jordan, PND, Jhene Aiko)

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

Did he change it for the better or for the worse?

Look at the 2021 landscape.. we got Little Brother, Freddie Gibbs, Griselda, Drake, Travis Scott, Cole, Lil Nas X, Megan, Cardi, etc...

There are so many options and awesome rap music to listen to...

Not to mention the resurgence of R&B which is a direct result of what Drake polished from Kanye and Cudi’s experiments...

Now we have The Weeknd, Frank, Miguel, The Internet, Thundercat, Jhene, Sza, Solange, Soulection etc...

The 2021 landscape is super rich with ideas.. Drake took more fringe ideas from 808s and Heartbreaks era and the Blog Era and made them mainstream which in turn allows the economy of those ideas to grow.

This new generation of warped tour rap isn’t directly in the post drake continuum but imo starting with NERD/Pharell to Ye to blog era Cudi and Lupe to Drake the explosion of creativity and rap has been an awesome thing to behold. And it has only made the genre and its influence stronger

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

has been since the early 2010's imo. it is in this position partially due to artists like drake being willing to acknowledge and respect the music and artists of the past without being beholden to their templates or abiding by some arbitrary set of rules about what musicians can and can't do within the genre