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Subject: "Trump Impeachment: Part Deux" Previous topic | Next topic
imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42169 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 11:42 AM

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"Trump Impeachment: Part Deux"


  

          

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/dy8wzv/democrats-just-launched-trumps-second-impeachmentfor-inciting-insurrection

"The move marks a historic effort to slap a sitting American president with a second impeachment for the first time in U.S. history, a move that would forever brand Trump as a historic presidential loser."


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
and pimpgansta would still go to the WH today to get an award...
Jan 11th 2021
1
lol
Jan 11th 2021
3
fam.. that shit will always crack me up
Jan 11th 2021
4
https://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-1zSz5MVw4zKg0
Jan 11th 2021
12
Nancy Pelosi was the wrong person
Jan 11th 2021
2
the senate can bar trump from running for public office
Jan 11th 2021
5
quinnipiac has trumps approval at 33%
Jan 11th 2021
6
why won’t the republicans respond?
Jan 11th 2021
7
because they are the real victims here
Jan 11th 2021
8
smh spin game is magnificent
Jan 11th 2021
11
      A true masterclass of spin, I tell you
Jan 12th 2021
15
They want the insurrectionists' votes
Jan 11th 2021
10
      the Dems about to force them tho...
Jan 11th 2021
13
           Yes. Dems forcing their hands...
Jan 11th 2021
14
Blood if definitely in the water. Might as well strike now.
Jan 11th 2021
9
Schumer getting heckled on live TV
Jan 12th 2021
16
corona?
Jan 12th 2021
17
Hmm yeah that’s probably it
Jan 12th 2021
18
      i think its moreso this.
Jan 12th 2021
19
that old Karen said the insurrection made her wet
Jan 12th 2021
21
i fuckin lol'd
Jan 12th 2021
26
I missed that hahaaa
Jan 13th 2021
53
Always wild to see a Jew get called an anti-semite for the 'gram
Jan 12th 2021
22
imagine if that was a muslim.
Jan 12th 2021
50
I think the inauguration should be indoors?
Jan 12th 2021
20
Agreed
Jan 12th 2021
23
for many, many reasons
Jan 12th 2021
24
RE: I think the inauguration should be indoors?
Jan 12th 2021
25
they should go virtual/remote location.
Jan 12th 2021
27
i thought it was announced it would be virtual
Jan 12th 2021
34
have y'all ever been somewhere that the president or vp is?
Jan 12th 2021
44
      no...
Jan 13th 2021
58
so theres definitely some shakiness among repubs.
Jan 12th 2021
28
Cheney's "conscience" says impeach
Jan 12th 2021
29
nice. just saw she made her choice public.
Jan 12th 2021
30
      This shit made me laugh
Jan 12th 2021
32
      Yea that was a strong statement for sure, said the same earlier.
Jan 12th 2021
45
well impeachment is now officially a bipartisan effort.
Jan 12th 2021
31
is this unity?
Jan 12th 2021
33
No. Unity is letting MAGA be divisive with impunity
Jan 12th 2021
35
      I'm offended you thought I was serious
Jan 12th 2021
37
           I didn't think you were serious. I just added my own sarcasm
Jan 12th 2021
38
                Ah, the old sarcasm on sarcasm trick
Jan 12th 2021
39
                     ... not a trick. Just added my own take on the subject
Jan 12th 2021
40
                          the last response purely levity
Jan 12th 2021
41
republican infighting already starting.
Jan 12th 2021
42
      from the same Andy Biggs that helped the mob
Jan 13th 2021
52
lol trump bout got all these people killed they should
Jan 12th 2021
43
look who sped up the process??
Jan 12th 2021
36
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Jan 12th 2021
46
Tish James still has 61 charges waiting for that mf in NY
Jan 12th 2021
47
      Hell yea.
Jan 12th 2021
48
           never..look at this shit...erybody goin
Jan 12th 2021
49
                Oh wow
Jan 13th 2021
56
                several people today spoke on suspicious "tours" given prior to the 6th
Jan 14th 2021
80
                Yep. Bunch of congresspeople going down, hopefully.
Jan 13th 2021
57
I think TRUMP thinks he's going to prison once he leaves office which is...
Jan 13th 2021
51
Have you been able to watch anything other than the News?
Jan 13th 2021
54
during the day no
Jan 13th 2021
55
nope. i wanted to take a break from politics/news/social media
Jan 13th 2021
60
Was hoping to take a break too
Jan 14th 2021
81
I've had the hardest time staying on task at job.
Jan 13th 2021
63
I could benefit from actually going int othe office
Jan 14th 2021
82
I've been thinking a lot recently about how this pile of shit stole ...
Jan 13th 2021
65
the feeling of dread I felt the morning of the 'Muslim ban'...
Jan 13th 2021
66
      Omg yea for sure. Same here.
Jan 13th 2021
67
if you watch the news -- why?
Jan 14th 2021
86
Yeah, ain't $hit gonna happen to Trumpster...Ds are f'n useless
Jan 13th 2021
59
Dude is wearing a purple suit like the joker...
Jan 13th 2021
61
It wasn't bad lol. Sartorially, repubs are winning.
Jan 13th 2021
62
      I had to look that up. solid vocab word right there.
Jan 13th 2021
64
hes been impeached again. Senate trial date unclear
Jan 13th 2021
68
Man - if a prez is impeached waiting trial ..
Jan 13th 2021
70
Yep. It's wild that he can be impeached twice...
Jan 13th 2021
72
      It's wild that a president gets a 3 MONTH lame duck period
Jan 14th 2021
84
           Yea agreed with both of you. At the *VERY LEAST*
Jan 14th 2021
85
They can (and likely will) impeach him after he's gone
Jan 13th 2021
71
i like how he fucked over the 1 person we know can legally pardon him.
Jan 13th 2021
74
the pressure needs to be amped on them
Jan 13th 2021
77
Officially the only President in history to be impeached twice
Jan 13th 2021
69
Stealing this quote
Jan 13th 2021
73
long term i dont know how we beat absolute shamelessness.
Jan 13th 2021
75
Was talking about this earlier today.
Jan 13th 2021
76
      i dont have a problem with biden talking like this
Jan 13th 2021
78
           For sure.
Jan 13th 2021
79
already hearing plea cops about delaying this past the first 100 days
Jan 14th 2021
83
Ivanka still thinks she has a future after this lol
Jan 15th 2021
87
don't get it twisted...she does.
Jan 23rd 2021
92
more evidence of impeachable conduct coming out
Jan 22nd 2021
88
which is why its good the trial is a bit delayed
Jan 23rd 2021
93
Trump & Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting AG ...
Jan 22nd 2021
89
Absolutely repulsive.
Jan 22nd 2021
90
Harris/ag, you have 4 years to put this mfkr in jail.
Jan 22nd 2021
91
Maybe Trump had better call Saul
Jan 30th 2021
94
It's started.
Feb 09th 2021
95
The opening from the prosecution was compelling
Feb 09th 2021
96
Word. This process is going to be a real pain for this country.
Feb 09th 2021
105
      Imagine a mob boss on trial
Feb 10th 2021
121
           That's an excellent analogy
Feb 10th 2021
122
                It really is.
Feb 10th 2021
128
Wow, Bruce Castor Jr is NOT up to this job.
Feb 09th 2021
97
What in thee fuck is this guy talking about?
Feb 09th 2021
98
Guys filibustering the defense
Feb 09th 2021
99
so weird
Feb 09th 2021
100
The answer for anyone defending trump is the same
Feb 09th 2021
102
I'm gonna add a line to the old law school adage:
Feb 09th 2021
101
I don't even know why anyone is wasting their time preparing arguments
Feb 09th 2021
103
Why the fuck was he tearing up? GTFOH!
Feb 09th 2021
104
      RE: Why the fuck was he tearing up? GTFOH!
Feb 09th 2021
106
I didn’t hear a relevant argument from the defense
Feb 10th 2021
107
Problem is House Members don't get impeached
Feb 10th 2021
111
      RE: expelled or censured
Feb 10th 2021
113
this country is a bag of shit.
Feb 10th 2021
108
RE: this country is a bag of shit.
Feb 10th 2021
109
Oh my god.
Feb 10th 2021
110
Yep
Feb 10th 2021
112
Yup. None of this matters. Republicans wont convict.
Feb 10th 2021
115
The saddest thing is that we've always been a giant joke lol
Feb 10th 2021
126
How do you combat shamelessness
Feb 10th 2021
118
      yup that was me.
Feb 10th 2021
132
           We need to do it quickly, too.
Feb 10th 2021
134
Neguse is balling right now
Feb 10th 2021
114
him and castro are bodying this shit
Feb 10th 2021
117
      Ehh...political intimidation is terrorism by another name
Feb 10th 2021
120
           I think there was some admission by Republicans that yesterday was
Feb 10th 2021
123
                RE: I think there was some admission by Republicans that yesterday was
Feb 10th 2021
125
                The terrorists were reading his tweets over a bullhorn
Feb 11th 2021
139
                Nah it was some acting by Republicans
Feb 11th 2021
140
Today I'm watching on CSPAN and the audacity to acquit this man is
Feb 10th 2021
116
lol at how much video evidence these fucking dolts provided
Feb 10th 2021
119
RE: lol at how much video evidence these fucking dolts provided
Feb 10th 2021
124
The way the impeachment managers are laying out the case is fantastic
Feb 10th 2021
127
beautiful...
Feb 10th 2021
129
black women be trying their damnedest to save this God forsaken country.
Feb 10th 2021
130
Swalwell dropped the mic on they as*...
Feb 10th 2021
131
How the hell can the GOP let trump off after that
Feb 10th 2021
133
AND they WILL
Feb 10th 2021
135
RE: AND they WILL
Feb 10th 2021
136
They're terrified of Trumps supporters.
Feb 14th 2021
184
Of all the creeps on this planet,
Feb 10th 2021
137
He's a sentient garbage can
Feb 10th 2021
138
So is it possible for this country to prosper?
Feb 12th 2021
141
No, the Republican party is playing it as a game
Feb 12th 2021
142
Witnesses!
Feb 13th 2021
143
Bah!
Feb 13th 2021
145
**twiddles thumbs** with the DC AG.
Feb 13th 2021
144
Democrats are such pussies
Feb 13th 2021
146
Tradeoffs
Feb 13th 2021
149
Calling witnesses is going to take two years?
Feb 13th 2021
155
      I'd guess it'd take at least a week or two
Feb 13th 2021
165
      Well, now they have no excuses to not get shit done then
Feb 13th 2021
      If a witness refuses to testify, then yes, it could take years.
Feb 13th 2021
171
i dont even care what the reasons are. there may be some good ones.
Feb 13th 2021
150
      Plus they're on recess next week lol so the "Biden agenda" cop out ..
Feb 13th 2021
152
      Would and do they have to continue the impeachment during recess?
Feb 13th 2021
154
           They could've worked thru recess I think.
Feb 13th 2021
157
      Incompetent idiots
Feb 13th 2021
156
Everyone prepared for no state charges too?
Feb 13th 2021
147
How Sway? the DC AG is popping popcorn and just told them to
Feb 13th 2021
148
      where are you getting this from?
Feb 13th 2021
151
      HAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Feb 13th 2021
153
      LOL
Feb 13th 2021
158
           After 4 years of this dude being invincible, it's not optimism. it's del...
Feb 13th 2021
161
                Definitely. This is the same dude
Feb 13th 2021
166
      Weren't you saying the same shit about Mueller?
Feb 13th 2021
159
      Way more than just Mueller lol.
Feb 13th 2021
160
      lol awesome
Feb 13th 2021
179
      I want to believe. I really do
Feb 14th 2021
181
      Labeathustla=Woody Harrelson, OKP=Kenan. https://youtu.be/xiKrWUoTq4s?t...
Feb 14th 2021
183
this is honestly a pretty good result for dems in the end.
Feb 13th 2021
162
What's the deal with Cassidy from Louisiana?
Feb 13th 2021
163
I agree and don’t understand all the angst on witness reversal here
Feb 13th 2021
164
Nah
Feb 13th 2021
167
      We needed 10 more, not 3
Feb 13th 2021
169
      yeah that hit me like 20 minutes later. My bad
Feb 13th 2021
172
      Toomey has stated he is retiring
Feb 13th 2021
170
           I thought so
Feb 13th 2021
173
McConnell:"no question Trump practically & morally responsible for provo...
Feb 13th 2021
168
RE: McConnell:"no question Trump practically & morally responsible for p...
Feb 13th 2021
177
In retrospect today's decision not to call witnesses makes perfect sense...
Feb 13th 2021
174
how is getting her testimony on the record right before acquittal
Feb 13th 2021
175
      Given that he was NEVER going to get convicted,
Feb 13th 2021
176
           RE: Given that he was NEVER going to get convicted,
Feb 13th 2021
180
                RE: Given that he was NEVER going to get convicted,
Feb 14th 2021
185
400 degreez track 2
Feb 13th 2021
178
Don’t fall for the okey doke irt Ds rescinding witness request
Feb 14th 2021
182
I am convinced Joe stuck his nose in that witness request
Feb 15th 2021
186
RE: I am convinced Joe stuck his nose in that witness request
Feb 15th 2021
187

legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69182 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 11:57 AM

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1. "and pimpgansta would still go to the WH today to get an award..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

from Trump.. jk

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
4187 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 12:45 PM

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3. "lol"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I knew it was coming.

---------------------------
Signature

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69182 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 12:54 PM

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4. "fam.. that shit will always crack me up"
In response to Reply # 3


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15219 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 03:15 PM

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12. "https://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-1zSz5MVw4zKg0"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

https://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-1zSz5MVw4zKg0

  

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Numba_33
Charter member
17685 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 12:18 PM

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2. "Nancy Pelosi was the wrong person"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for those morons to mess with. Hopefully the House will pass this swiftly.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 01:14 PM

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5. "the senate can bar trump from running for public office"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in a separate vote from impeachment.

https://twitter.com/RBReich/status/1348689662819274752

robert reich thinks mcconnell would be on board. i have my doubts (mcconnell is careful about publicly splitting his caucus). but after jan 20 (when dems control senate)...that would be guaranteed and prolly find a small handful of repub votes too.

------

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 01:27 PM

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6. "quinnipiac has trumps approval at 33%"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jan-11-21 01:30 PM by Reeq

  

          

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1348687523833389060

thats among registered voters. so its even worse among all adults.

its also an 11 pt drop from only a few weeks ago.
https://twitter.com/ryanbeckwith/status/1348684615435874311

and repubs want folks to believe that theres some political pitfall here awaiting democrats.

btw its funny how repub presidents are basically guaranteed to be less popular at the end of their run now. and dems actually gain popularity as they exit office.

2 straight disastrous presidencies? repubs just need to stop voting.

------

  

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Trinity444
Charter member
41506 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 02:11 PM

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7. "why won’t the republicans respond?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for them to not seek any form of punishment is crazy.

  

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Mynoriti
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36286 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 02:30 PM

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8. "because they are the real victims here"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

they're monitoring and crying about their twitter follower counts dropping more closely than they've ever looked at covid deaths

yeah the protests were wrong and the president got a little carried away but lets move on to the real problems, which is democrats being mean to them and BIG TECH cancel culture digital gulags

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9341 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 02:53 PM

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11. "smh spin game is magnificent"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
10405 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 12:54 PM

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15. "A true masterclass of spin, I tell you"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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cp900
Member since Aug 20th 2006
1506 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 02:42 PM

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10. "They want the insurrectionists' votes"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

Or at least they don't want to be on the record saying that they/Trump are wrong/deserve punishment.

They all fear an even nuttier republican primarying them in the future.

GT: SoulGatherer

  

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Trinity444
Charter member
41506 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 05:14 PM

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13. "the Dems about to force them tho..."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

doesn’t the impeachment force them to go on record?

  

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cp900
Member since Aug 20th 2006
1506 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 05:19 PM

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14. "Yes. Dems forcing their hands..."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

I think Dems are going to make the mistake of allowing some sort of plea-like deal where the Senate votes to not allow him to run for future office but avoids a full up or down vote on impeachment (assuming that is even possible).

That is a terrible idea.

GT: SoulGatherer

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
43250 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 02:37 PM

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9. "Blood if definitely in the water. Might as well strike now."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Sounds like if McConnell decides to stall, the Democratic-led Senate won't do anything until after Biden's first 100 days. That way, they can get all of his cabinet appointees through and do COVID-related business. Then impeach Dipshit.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30586 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 01:23 PM

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16. "Schumer getting heckled on live TV "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jan-12-21 01:35 PM by Amritsar

  

          

Sirens going off too. Why would he have this Presser outside. It’s freezing out anyway lol

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1349061388635926528?s=21

(Just posting this for the video. DiscloseTV are shit birds)

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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naame
Charter member
20994 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 01:28 PM

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17. "corona?"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          


America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30586 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 01:35 PM

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18. "Hmm yeah that’s probably it "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

And possibly a show of strength

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 01:37 PM

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19. "i think its moreso this."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>And possibly a show of strength

he could have done it from any socially distanced indoor venue.

------

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
36286 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 02:35 PM

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21. "that old Karen said the insurrection made her wet"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1349073429794848771

i'm also pretty sure she committed a crime at the end so hopefully someone will take care of her cats

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42173 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 03:50 PM

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26. "i fuckin lol'd"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

this is the type of crazy I can deal with though

after the Jan 6 I still wanna kneecap her with a bike lock but it's at least not the Coup Klux Klan

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30586 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 08:18 AM

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53. "I missed that hahaaa "
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
14383 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 02:36 PM

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22. "Always wild to see a Jew get called an anti-semite for the 'gram"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33788 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 11:14 PM

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50. "imagine if that was a muslim."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Trinity444
Charter member
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20. "I think the inauguration should be indoors? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in light of everything going on, what reason is there to have it outdoors?

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue Jan-12-21 03:04 PM

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23. "Agreed "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Tue Jan-12-21 03:41 PM

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24. "for many, many reasons"
In response to Reply # 20


          

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
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25. "RE: I think the inauguration should be indoors? "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

>in light of everything going on, what reason is there to have
>it outdoors?

I’d honestly hope that they prerecord it somewhere somehow to make it as hard as possible to infiltrate/fuck up.

I can’t imagine what kind of security detail would be necessary for an outdoor event like that right now. And what instructions would be present for any kind of bullshit from anyone anywhere on the grounds?

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 05:14 PM

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27. "they should go virtual/remote location. "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

way too many variables up in the air now...especially inside the agencies tasked with protecting/securing.

and thats on top of the known threats.

------

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Jan-12-21 06:00 PM

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34. "i thought it was announced it would be virtual"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

this was before the insurrection. must have imagined that.

  

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Rjcc
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44. "have y'all ever been somewhere that the president or vp is?"
In response to Reply # 20


          

they can secure an outdoor location.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Trinity444
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58. "no..."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

well, that one time obama came thru here. I remember how they shut the city down. This is something different tho. There’s talk about having people on the inside...cops, guards, govt officials.

this different...

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Jan-12-21 05:32 PM

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28. "so theres definitely some shakiness among repubs."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

a handful of house repubs like katko, kizinger, etc have come out in support of impeachment.

repubs arent even whipping up votes in the house against impeachment and liz cheney (no 3 repub in the house) just said members should vote their conscience.
https://twitter.com/DJJudd/status/1348982503713996802

and in the senate...

repub senator pat toomey (up for reelection in pa in 2022) has already come out saying trump committed an impeachable offense. and more 2022 repubs could feel pressured to move in the same direction.

plus mcconnell supposedly told 'associates' that trump committed an impeachable offense and he is cool with dems impeaching him because it makes it easier to purge him from the gop (i think mcconnell might have him and trumps standing in the party reversed tho).
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1349107765440966656

------

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6306 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 05:43 PM

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29. "Cheney's "conscience" says impeach"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
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30. "nice. just saw she made her choice public."
In response to Reply # 29
Tue Jan-12-21 05:53 PM by Reeq

  

          

i like this statement too.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/1349126206969544706

------

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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32. "This shit made me laugh"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1349125981265653765?s=20

everybody WFH these days

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 08:47 PM

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45. "Yea that was a strong statement for sure, said the same earlier."
In response to Reply # 30


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 05:56 PM

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31. "well impeachment is now officially a bipartisan effort."
In response to Reply # 28
Tue Jan-12-21 05:56 PM by Reeq

  

          

kinda hard for repubs or media to make it look partisan when liz cheney is on board (which also gives cover for others to join her).

so much for the dems overplaying their hand and dividing the country narrative.

the only thing this will divide is the republican party.

------

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6306 posts
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33. "is this unity?"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41906 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 06:15 PM

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35. "No. Unity is letting MAGA be divisive with impunity"
In response to Reply # 33
Tue Jan-12-21 06:22 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

They get to be racist, homophobic, misogynistic as they like, free from so much as a negative reaction, let alone wholesale de-platforming.

Unity also means they get to villify Kaep and others for kneeling for the national anthem in protest of police brutality and racism, while they get to attempt to overthrow the government and overturn an election that they lost with absolutely no consequences.

For them, unity is a one way street.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6306 posts
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37. "I'm offended you thought I was serious"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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38. "I didn't think you were serious. I just added my own sarcasm"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6306 posts
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39. "Ah, the old sarcasm on sarcasm trick"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41906 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 07:16 PM

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40. "... not a trick. Just added my own take on the subject"
In response to Reply # 39
Tue Jan-12-21 07:16 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

You good? Because this is coming across weirdly defensive, or I'm just misinterpreting.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6306 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 07:20 PM

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41. "the last response purely levity"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

So we good

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 07:53 PM

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42. "republican infighting already starting."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

https://twitter.com/MZanona/status/1349155483689619459

------

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30586 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 08:10 AM

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52. "from the same Andy Biggs that helped the mob"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

how rich

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
80915 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 07:57 PM

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43. "lol trump bout got all these people killed they should"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

be a whole lot more than shaky

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33788 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 06:42 PM

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36. "look who sped up the process??"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jan-12-21 06:42 PM by LAbeathustla

  

          

that mf is going to prison.

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 08:49 PM

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46. "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
In response to Reply # 36


          

Aw man you special.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33788 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 09:44 PM

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47. "Tish James still has 61 charges waiting for that mf in NY"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

that mf was always going to someones prison. this last little stunt seals the deal.

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 10:30 PM

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48. "Hell yea."
In response to Reply # 47


          

Never change.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33788 posts
Tue Jan-12-21 11:09 PM

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49. "never..look at this shit...erybody goin"
In response to Reply # 48
Tue Jan-12-21 11:10 PM by LAbeathustla

  

          


a reconnaissance mission? nigga.

https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/1349200611196219397?s=20

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Numba_33
Charter member
17685 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 10:27 AM

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56. "Oh wow"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

>
>a reconnaissance mission? nigga.
>
>https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/1349200611196219397?s=20

that's a hell of a claim from that Congresswoman. I hope she has proof to back up that claim so that folks involved thoroughly sink and rot behind bars.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33788 posts
Thu Jan-14-21 02:25 AM

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80. "several people today spoke on suspicious "tours" given prior to the 6th"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

this shit aint no joke... i dont know why people dont want to see it for what it was..they looking for excuses not to believe this...why they gotta lie?

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 10:55 AM

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57. "Yep. Bunch of congresspeople going down, hopefully."
In response to Reply # 49


          

Trump ? Nah.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
40194 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 06:40 AM

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51. "I think TRUMP thinks he's going to prison once he leaves office which is..."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

He's doing all this to avoid leaving

Obviously based on nothing but speculation, but people will do anything to avoid a cell

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30586 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 09:17 AM

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54. "Have you been able to watch anything other than the News?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I tried last night. After my PBS Newshour i put on some Hulu


Just couldn’t concentrate even though I need the escapism

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 10:23 AM

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55. "during the day no"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

But afternoon/evening I still try to put on sports or stream something

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 01:12 PM

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60. "nope. i wanted to take a break from politics/news/social media "
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

when biden got elected. then gear back up for the 2022 midterms.

but shit is too dangerous to turn away right now.

i wonder if we will ever go back to some degree of safety/normalcy.

------

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30586 posts
Thu Jan-14-21 08:46 AM

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81. "Was hoping to take a break too"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

and I actually did for a little bit during xmas/NYE. Went to a cabin with my parents for the holidays and unplugged a little.



But you're right. FOllowing this stuff feels like an obligation. Like another To Do List on my Thursday agenda.

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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PROMO
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26331 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 02:23 PM

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63. "I've had the hardest time staying on task at job. "
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

All of this has definitely affected my mental.

I wish I could say I'm just ignoring it, which i'm usually REALLY good at, but I can't.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30586 posts
Thu Jan-14-21 08:48 AM

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82. "I could benefit from actually going int othe office "
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

would welcome the hassle of the commute, the few annoying coworkers and unnecessary meetings.


A welcome distraction. Instead its just me in my house. Alone with my thoughts and uncertainty.

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 03:49 PM

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65. "I've been thinking a lot recently about how this pile of shit stole ..."
In response to Reply # 54
Wed Jan-13-21 03:50 PM by Brew

          

5 years of our lives. Like 2015 through now went by *so fucking fast* and throughout most of it I feel like I was and am nearly completely consumed by his/their bullshit.

Makes me really sad. Thankfully I've somehow still managed to improve my life on multiple levels both professionally and personally despite that, which almost makes no sense. But still I can't help but feel like there's things I didn't do that I wanted to or could have, had I not been so consumed with fighting off nazis in my free time.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 03:53 PM

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66. "the feeling of dread I felt the morning of the 'Muslim ban'..."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

The night of the election in 2016 was bad. Inauguration was bad. But waking up that Saturday morning like what the FUCK is going on? That's when I really knew how bad the shit could get

AND I STILL DIDN'T IMAGINE OVER 300K PEOPLE DYING IN A FUCKING PANDEMIC

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 04:25 PM

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67. "Omg yea for sure. Same here."
In response to Reply # 66


          

I vividly recall hearing about this at work, nearly crying, so upset about the madness and needlessness of it all. And somehow it just kept getting worse from there.

It's really absurd that so much horrible but preventable shit has happened since that election. Like I've probably forgotten most of it.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Rjcc
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Thu Jan-14-21 04:22 PM

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86. "if you watch the news -- why?"
In response to Reply # 54


          

there's no point. it loops the same shit for hours, and most of what's broadcast is people who don't know anything trying to spin something one way or another.

shit is only there to stress you out, and y'all don't come away better informed.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15383 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 12:56 PM

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59. "Yeah, ain't $hit gonna happen to Trumpster...Ds are f'n useless"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-13-21 01:00 PM by bentagain

  

          

Part deaux...literally

Ds making pleas to morality and logic = L
From the same f'n people; Pelosi, Nadler and Schiff

Rs lying, making threats, and instilling more fear = W
Jordan, Gaetz and Gohmer...just flat out making $hit up...and still winning

It's actually hilarisad listening to the Rs layout a timeline of Trumpster illegalities...and then calling it a witch hunt, cancel culture, etc...

...and Ds still can't break through that noise, even when the Rs are making their case for them...

They gonna stall this process out long enough for Trumpster to be at his library opening and on a book tour

Fok alladeez people.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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luminous
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11640 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 02:15 PM

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61. "Dude is wearing a purple suit like the joker..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

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CIPHA
Charter member
1010 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 02:23 PM

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62. "It wasn't bad lol. Sartorially, repubs are winning. "
In response to Reply # 61


          

Hank Johnson came through decent for the dems though.

_____________________________________

Let me guess, I can have "good day" now, right?

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5391 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 02:51 PM

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64. "I had to look that up. solid vocab word right there."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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handle
Charter member
17127 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 05:00 PM

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68. "hes been impeached again. Senate trial date unclear"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Looks like Mitch won't do it.

Get ready for a weak of INSANE pardons and BATSHIT INSANE executive orders.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 05:03 PM

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70. "Man - if a prez is impeached waiting trial .."
In response to Reply # 68


          

.. they shouldn't be able to do a gotdamn fucking thing.

Especially not THAT type of bullshit.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41906 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 05:36 PM

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72. "Yep. It's wild that he can be impeached twice..."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

...still retain his power.

Just fucking mind boggling.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15219 posts
Thu Jan-14-21 10:55 AM

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84. "It's wild that a president gets a 3 MONTH lame duck period"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

3 months where they don't have to consider the follow on effects of their actions.

It should be two weeks, max. Processes need to improved to where all votes are counted within one day. Set up an expedited system to audit and handle election challenges. Have that system work around the clock in that period with a hard 2 week final deadline.

New president sworn in immediately

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Thu Jan-14-21 04:02 PM

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85. "Yea agreed with both of you. At the *VERY LEAST*"
In response to Reply # 84


          

... an outgoing prez should no longer have control of the major levers of presidential power. i.e. nuclear codes, military/Pentagon, DHS, etc. All decisions about departments like that should at the very least be required to be collaborative with the incoming prez, with final decision being solely the incoming prez's.

I don't know how that would work logistically, but we now know that outgoing repug presidents can't be trusted not to be nazi. Hopefully we learn our lesson quickly.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
43250 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 05:32 PM

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71. "They can (and likely will) impeach him after he's gone"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

If nothing else to bar him from running for public office and make sure he doesn't get all the benefits (secret service protection, travel budget, etc.) I imagine the new senate will tackle it after they get all of Biden's cabinet appointments through and do all the COVID-related stuff.

>Get ready for a weak of INSANE pardons and BATSHIT INSANE
>executive orders.

Any of those can (and will) be overturned. What people mostly think he's going to do is preemptively pardon everyone still loyal to him (his family, Miller, his chief of staff). He may try to pardon himself, even though people in the White House are telling him not to. Probably because it won't hold up.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 05:39 PM

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74. "i like how he fucked over the 1 person we know can legally pardon him."
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

>He may
>try to pardon himself, even though people in the White House
>are telling him not to. Probably because it won't hold up.

------

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
13879 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 06:26 PM

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77. "the pressure needs to be amped on them"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

why wait?
why not get this done now so table can be clear for covid relief when biden takes office?
why allow this danger?

we cant let the senate wait on this. if he needs to get more support thats on him to do it now.

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2693 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 05:01 PM

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69. "Officially the only President in history to be impeached twice"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Donald J. Trump, what an absolute skid mark on the briefs of history.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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Bambino Grande
Member since Mar 14th 2019
810 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 05:37 PM

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73. "Stealing this quote"
In response to Reply # 69


          

>Donald J. Trump, what an absolute skid mark on the briefs of
>history.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 05:43 PM

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75. "long term i dont know how we beat absolute shamelessness."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people willing to lie, flout laws, act completely hypocritical, etc with zero concern about the consequences. political or 'real life'.

and they have millions of (white) people who are not only okay with that...but willing to defend it violently.

------

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 06:17 PM

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76. "Was talking about this earlier today."
In response to Reply # 75


          

How do you beat not only a system that's rigged against us (electoral college, etc.), but also an opposition party that has literally zero ideas (RNC platform was "whatever Trump wants," etc.) nor concrete ideology, and argues in bad faith at every turn. For no other reason than to "stick it to the libs."

Long road ahead of us on so many levels. And I don't think Biden is the man for this moment. Too much "we need repugs" bullshit already.

No we fucking do not.


>people willing to lie, flout laws, act completely
>hypocritical, etc with zero concern about the consequences.
>political or 'real life'.
>
>and they have millions of (white) people who are not only okay
>with that...but willing to defend it violently.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 06:59 PM

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78. "i dont have a problem with biden talking like this"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

if hes willing to pursue a progressive agenda under it.

like repubs like john kasich, doug ducey, etc. they talk like bipartisan moderates and get all those headlines and image perceptions...then they enact the same right wing agenda all repubs do.

i dont know why dems dont just do with repubs do. if we played by the same rules...we would dominate them.


>How do you beat not only a system that's rigged against us
>(electoral college, etc.), but also an opposition party that
>has literally zero ideas (RNC platform was "whatever Trump
>wants," etc.) nor concrete ideology, and argues in bad faith
>at every turn. For no other reason than to "stick it to the
>libs."
>
>Long road ahead of us on so many levels. And I don't think
>Biden is the man for this moment. Too much "we need repugs"
>bullshit already.
>
>No we fucking do not.
>
>
>>people willing to lie, flout laws, act completely
>>hypocritical, etc with zero concern about the consequences.
>>political or 'real life'.
>>
>>and they have millions of (white) people who are not only
>okay
>>with that...but willing to defend it violently.

------

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Wed Jan-13-21 09:28 PM

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79. "For sure."
In response to Reply # 78


          

>if hes willing to pursue a progressive agenda under it.
>
>like repubs like john kasich, doug ducey, etc. they talk like
>bipartisan moderates and get all those headlines and image
>perceptions...then they enact the same right wing agenda all
>repubs do.
>
>i dont know why dems dont just do with repubs do. if we
>played by the same rules...we would dominate them.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15383 posts
Thu Jan-14-21 09:06 AM

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83. "already hearing plea cops about delaying this past the first 100 days"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

of Biden's administration

SMH

Trump gonna be in Moscow by then.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30586 posts
Fri Jan-15-21 09:35 AM

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87. "Ivanka still thinks she has a future after this lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Oh sweetie

https://twitter.com/johnberman/status/1350068410261123073?s=21

Jk they are completely fucking scrambling

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35067 posts
Sat Jan-23-21 10:24 AM

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92. "don't get it twisted...she does."
In response to Reply # 87


          

remember, they are all moving to Florida.

a state with a deeply loyal to trump Governor and state legislators and so many of his base.

She may primary Marco Rubio and run for Senate there. and she actually could win. I think he voted to certify the election results there.

Never underestimate white supremacy, bruh.

d

"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Fri Jan-22-21 08:08 PM

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88. "more evidence of impeachable conduct coming out"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1352783634520973314

------

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35067 posts
Sat Jan-23-21 03:38 PM

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93. "which is why its good the trial is a bit delayed"
In response to Reply # 88


          

more time for this shit to emerge and more indisputable evidence that should cause even the most terrified republicans to vote to convict

hopefully he loses all his post presidential perks, as well (travel allowances, severance, secret service etc)

d

"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6306 posts
Fri Jan-22-21 08:18 PM

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89. "Trump &amp; Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting AG ..."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jan-22-21 08:27 PM by navajo joe

  

          

This shit right here?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/22/us/politics/jeffrey-clark-trump-justice-department-election.html

Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting Attorney General

Trying to find another avenue to push his baseless election claims, Donald Trump considered installing a loyalist, and had the men make their cases to him.

By Katie Benner
Jan. 22, 2021, 7:44 p.m. ET
WASHINGTON — The Justice Department’s top leaders listened in stunned silence this month: One of their peers, they were told, had devised a plan with President Donald J. Trump to oust Jeffrey A. Rosen as acting attorney general and wield the department’s power to force Georgia state lawmakers to overturn its presidential election results.

The unassuming lawyer who worked on the plan, Jeffrey Clark, had been devising ways to cast doubt on the election results and to bolster Mr. Trump’s continuing legal battles and the pressure on Georgia politicians. Because Mr. Rosen had refused the president’s entreaties to carry out those plans, Mr. Trump was about to decide whether to fire Mr. Rosen and replace him with Mr. Clark.

The department officials, convened on a conference call, then asked each other: What will you do if Mr. Rosen is dismissed?

The answer was unanimous. They would resign.

Their informal pact ultimately helped persuade Mr. Trump to keep Mr. Rosen in place, calculating that a furor over mass resignations at the top of the Justice Department would eclipse any attention on his baseless accusations of voter fraud. Mr. Trump’s decision came only after Mr. Rosen and Mr. Clark made their competing cases to him in a bizarre White House meeting that two officials compared with an episode of Mr. Trump’s reality show “The Apprentice,” albeit one that could prompt a constitutional crisis.

The previously unknown chapter was the culmination of the president’s long-running effort to batter the Justice Department into advancing his personal agenda. He also pressed Mr. Rosen to appoint special counsels, including one who would look into Dominion Voting Systems, a maker of election equipment that Mr. Trump’s allies had falsely said was working with Venezuela to flip votes from Mr. Trump to Joseph R. Biden Jr.

This account of the department’s final days under Mr. Trump’s leadership is based on interviews with four former Trump administration officials who asked not to be named because of fear of retaliation.

Mr. Clark said that this account contained inaccuracies but did not specify, adding that he could not discuss any conversations with Mr. Trump or Justice Department lawyers. “Senior Justice Department lawyers, not uncommonly, provide legal advice to the White House as part of our duties,” he said. “All my official communications were consistent with law.”

Mr. Clark also noted that he was the lead signatory on a Justice Department request last month asking a federal judge to reject a lawsuit that sought to pressure Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the results of the election.

Mr. Trump declined to comment. An adviser said that Mr. Trump has consistently argued that the justice system should investigate “rampant election fraud that has plagued our system for years.”


A Justice Department spokesman declined to comment, as did Mr. Rosen.

When Mr. Trump said on Dec. 14 that Attorney General William P. Barr was leaving the department, some officials thought that he might allow Mr. Rosen a short reprieve before pressing him about voter fraud. After all, Mr. Barr would be around for another week.

Instead, Mr. Trump summoned Mr. Rosen to the Oval Office the next day. He wanted the Justice Department to file legal briefs supporting his allies’ lawsuits seeking to overturn his election loss. And he urged Mr. Rosen to appoint special counsels to investigate not only unfounded accusations of widespread voter fraud, but also Dominion, the voting machines firm.

(Dominion has sued the pro-Trump lawyer Sidney Powell, who inserted those accusations into four federal lawsuits about voter irregularities that were all dismissed.)

Mr. Rosen refused. He maintained that he would make decisions based on the facts and the law, and he reiterated what Mr. Barr had privately told Mr. Trump: The department had investigated voting irregularities and found no evidence of widespread fraud.

But Mr. Trump continued to press Mr. Rosen after the meeting — in phone calls and in person. He repeatedly said that he did not understand why the Justice Department had not found evidence that supported conspiracy theories about the election that some of his personal lawyers had espoused. He declared that the department was not fighting hard enough for him.

As Mr. Rosen and the deputy attorney general, Richard P. Donoghue, pushed back, they were unaware that Mr. Clark had been introduced to Mr. Trump by a Pennsylvania politician and had told the president that he agreed that fraud had affected the election results.

Mr. Trump quickly embraced Mr. Clark, who had been appointed the acting head of the civil division in September and was also the head of the department’s environmental and natural resources division.

As December wore on, Mr. Clark mentioned to Mr. Rosen and Mr. Donoghue that he spent a lot of time reading on the internet — a comment that alarmed them because they inferred that he believed the unfounded conspiracy theory that Mr. Trump had won the election. Mr. Clark also told them that he wanted the department to hold a news conference announcing that it was investigating serious accusations of election fraud. Mr. Rosen and Mr. Donoghue rejected the proposal.

As Mr. Trump focused increasingly on Georgia, a state he lost narrowly to Mr. Biden, he complained to Justice Department leaders that the U.S. attorney in Atlanta, Byung J. Pak, was not trying to find evidence for false election claims pushed by Mr. Trump’s lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani and others. Mr. Donoghue warned Mr. Pak that the president was now fixated on his office, and that it might not be tenable for him to continue to lead it, according to two people familiar with the conversation.

That conversation and Mr. Trump’s efforts to pressure Georgia’s Republican secretary of state to “find” him votes compelled Mr. Pak to abruptly resign this month.

Mr. Clark was also focused on Georgia. He drafted a letter that he wanted Mr. Rosen to send to Georgia state legislators that wrongly said that the Justice Department was investigating accusations of voter fraud in their state, and that they should move to void Mr. Biden’s win there.

Mr. Rosen and Mr. Donoghue again rejected Mr. Clark’s proposal.

On New Year’s Eve, the trio met to discuss Mr. Clark’s refusal to hew to the department’s conclusion that the election results were valid. Mr. Donoghue flatly told Mr. Clark that what he was doing was wrong. The next day, Mr. Clark told Mr. Rosen — who had mentored him while they worked together at the law firm Kirkland & Ellis — that he was going to discuss his strategy to the president early the next week, just before Congress was set to certify Mr. Biden’s electoral victory.

Unbeknown to the acting attorney general, Mr. Clark’s timeline moved up. He met with Mr. Trump over the weekend, then informed Mr. Rosen midday on Sunday that the president intended to replace him with Mr. Clark, who could then try to stop Congress from certifying the Electoral College results. He said that Mr. Rosen could stay on as his deputy attorney general, leaving Mr. Rosen speechless.

Unwilling to step down without a fight, Mr. Rosen said that he needed to hear straight from Mr. Trump and worked with the White House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, to convene a meeting for early that evening.

Even as Mr. Clark’s pronouncement was sinking in, stunning news broke out of Georgia: State officials had recorded an hourlong call, published by The Washington Post, during which Mr. Trump pressured them to manufacture enough votes to declare him the victor. As the fallout from the recording ricocheted through Washington, the president’s desperate bid to change the outcome in Georgia came into sharp focus.

Mr. Rosen and Mr. Donoghue pressed ahead, informing Steven Engel, the head of the Justice Department’s office of legal counsel, about Mr. Clark’s latest maneuver. Mr. Donoghue convened a late-afternoon call with the department’s remaining senior leaders, laying out Mr. Clark’s efforts to replace Mr. Rosen.

Mr. Rosen planned to soon head to the White House to discuss his fate, Mr. Donoghue told the group. Should Mr. Rosen be fired, they all agreed to resign en masse. For some, the plan brought to mind the so-called Saturday Night Massacre of the Nixon era, where Attorney General Elliot L. Richardson and his deputy resigned rather than carry out the president’s order to fire the special prosecutor investigating him.

The Clark plan, the officials concluded, would seriously harm the department, the government and the rule of law. For hours, they anxiously messaged and called one another as they awaited Mr. Rosen’s fate.

Around 6 p.m., Mr. Rosen, Mr. Donoghue and Mr. Clark met at the White House with Mr. Trump, Mr. Cipollone, his deputy Patrick Philbin and other lawyers. Mr. Trump had Mr. Rosen and Mr. Clark present their arguments to him.

Mr. Cipollone advised the president not to fire Mr. Rosen and he reiterated, as he had for days, that he did not recommend sending the letter to Georgia lawmakers. Mr. Engel advised Mr. Trump that he and the department’s remaining top officials would resign if he fired Mr. Rosen, leaving Mr. Clark alone at the department.

Mr. Trump seemed somewhat swayed by the idea that firing Mr. Rosen would trigger not only chaos at the Justice Department, but also congressional investigations and possibly recriminations from other Republicans and distract attention from his efforts to overturn the election results.

After nearly three hours, Mr. Trump ultimately decided that Mr. Clark’s plan would fail, and he allowed Mr. Rosen to stay.

Mr. Rosen and his deputies concluded they had weathered the turmoil. Once Congress certified Mr. Biden’s victory, there would be little for them to do until they left along with Mr. Trump in two weeks.

They began to exhale days later as the Electoral College certification at the Capitol got underway. And then they received word: The building had been breached.

Maggie Haberman contributed reporting from New York.

Katie Benner covers the Justice Department. She was part of a team that won a Pulitzer Prize in 2018 for public service for reporting on workplace sexual harassment issues.

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Fri Jan-22-21 09:19 PM

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90. "Absolutely repulsive."
In response to Reply # 89


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
Charter member
32148 posts
Fri Jan-22-21 10:07 PM

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91. "Harris/ag, you have 4 years to put this mfkr in jail."
In response to Reply # 89
Fri Jan-22-21 10:20 PM by rdhull

  

          

nm

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12334 posts
Sat Jan-30-21 10:01 PM

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94. "Maybe Trump had better call Saul"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Turns out Lindsey's buddies had 'no chemistry' or screen presence.

https://nyti.ms/36oGPZB

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
20857 posts
Tue Feb-09-21 03:00 PM

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95. "It's started."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2693 posts
Tue Feb-09-21 03:14 PM

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96. "The opening from the prosecution was compelling"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I don’t know WHAT the fuck Trumps lawyer is on about. Rambling and incoherent.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
14383 posts
Tue Feb-09-21 06:48 PM

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105. "Word. This process is going to be a real pain for this country."
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

But not for the reasons the republicans are leaning on.

Anybody that actually watches this stuff - even just the highlights - is going to see that its facts vs. emotions.

The crazy part for me is that they can call this a trial and themselves a jury but are completely making up their minds before seeing the arguments. It's crazy how this whole thing has been turned into Yankees vs. Mets

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2693 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 01:34 PM

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121. "Imagine a mob boss on trial"
In response to Reply # 105


          

and half the jury are members of the crime family.

Thats basically what this is. Absurd.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41906 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 02:05 PM

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122. "That's an excellent analogy"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

>and half the jury are members of the crime family.
>
>Thats basically what this is. Absurd.

Particularly since the rest of us know he'd straight up murder every last one of them if he could.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 04:41 PM

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128. "It really is."
In response to Reply # 122


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12334 posts
Tue Feb-09-21 03:15 PM

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97. "Wow, Bruce Castor Jr is NOT up to this job."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-09-21 03:17 PM by stravinskian

          

I don't pretend it'll make a difference. But after what I hear was a blockbuster opening from the house managers (I had to miss most of it for a zoom meeting), we've got this guy rambling for a half hour about how special senators are.

I'm sure the most quoted line of this will be his slipup right at the start where he called himself the lead prosecutor.

  

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dagu
Member since Nov 25th 2005
1501 posts
Tue Feb-09-21 03:20 PM

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98. "What in thee fuck is this guy talking about?"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

---------------------

http://www.last.fm/user/dagu85

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2693 posts
Tue Feb-09-21 03:33 PM

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99. "Guys filibustering the defense"
In response to Reply # 97


          

But back in suburban Philadelphia, you have the members of the house. And somebody is in that jurisdiction! Therefore. You. Can’t. Do. What’s. In. Nebraska!

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
13879 posts
Tue Feb-09-21 03:43 PM

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100. "so weird"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

i wasnt planning on tuning in but decided to at the last moment.

house managers did so good, that video was quite effective.

i dont know what is up with castor. dude is so incoherent.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41906 posts
Tue Feb-09-21 04:03 PM

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102. "The answer for anyone defending trump is the same"
In response to Reply # 100
Tue Feb-09-21 04:04 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

There's not much a defense for him.

From a marble-mouthed Jethro Hayseed in Bumfuck Cousintucky to an eloquent, accomplished, Ivy League educated WASP, there's not much coherence to be had in even the best defense for that walking mass of human garbage.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12334 posts
Tue Feb-09-21 04:00 PM

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101. "I'm gonna add a line to the old law school adage:"
In response to Reply # 97


          


If the facts are on your side, pound the facts.
If the law is on your side, pound the law.
If neither one is on your side, pound the table.
If you're not sure where the table is, wander away from the podium until you realize it's got your only mic.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15219 posts
Tue Feb-09-21 04:19 PM

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103. "I don't even know why anyone is wasting their time preparing arguments"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

Is it just for the history books? Because no ones mind is going to be changed.

  

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dagu
Member since Nov 25th 2005
1501 posts
Tue Feb-09-21 05:00 PM

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104. "Why the fuck was he tearing up? GTFOH!"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

---------------------

http://www.last.fm/user/dagu85

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
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Tue Feb-09-21 08:31 PM

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106. "RE: Why the fuck was he tearing up? GTFOH!"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

>

Unless DT and friends arrive at an amazing case, this is going to be a mountain of folks announcing that DT could do whatever he wanted then and now. And I want to believe it will be very bad for the reds going forward IF THE DEMS DO NOT LET AVERAGE MURRICANS FORGET THIS.

Sadly, I do not trust the blues as a whole to play this correctly no matter how it goes. For now, the video to start it off was basically a ‘what else do you need to know?’ video package.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15383 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 08:38 AM

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107. "I didn’t hear a relevant argument from the defense "
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-10-21 08:39 AM by bentagain

  

          

Day 1 was arguments about the constitutionality of even having the trial

I didn’t hear anything relevant to that argument from the defense.

We’re going to get 16 hours of witch hunt

and Rs will acquit in the end

It’s actually entertaining watching them counter their own arguments;
Can’t impeach a POTUS once out of office = he was impeached while in office 2Xs
Ds waited too long to deliver articles = Ds are rushing the process
My favorite is the clips of Ds discussing impeachment as early as 2017

The defense is making the prosecution’s case for them

This all could have been avoided if we actually had impartial jurors

Think about that, Rs had an opportunity to remove him in 2019

They chose this, enabled an insurrection...and want reconciliation without any reckoning

Ds should start impeachment proceedings for all 147 members of Congress that challenged the election results

That’s the only way I see us moving forward

Remove them all.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6306 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 10:19 AM

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111. "Problem is House Members don't get impeached"
In response to Reply # 107
Wed Feb-10-21 10:26 AM by navajo joe

  

          

Or at least have never been impeached. Like it could happen technically but it never has.

They can be removed however that takes 2/3 vote. Even if every member of Congress who wasn't part of that 147 voted yes they'd still come up just shy. On top of that they wouldn't get every remaining member of the House to vote in favor or vote at all.

Hell, the numbers don't allow them to get just Greene, Cruz, and Hawley out.

They got JUST over half of the members to vote for Greene's removal from committees which thankfully required simple majority.

It's really hard to do democracy when one party's sole purpose is working toward its destruction.

I want accountability as much as anyone. I went to the mat for it here during the last impeachment when folks weren't taking it seriously and calling it palace intrigue or talking half-measures like censure.

I just wanted to be clarify before people start with the "dems are cowards for not impeaching these people" narrative gets fully up and running why exactly that's not an option

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15383 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 12:06 PM

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113. "RE: expelled or censured"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

Impeach was the wrong term

They can absolutely be removed...and call it something different

Countering your point...the motivation for this impeachment was more about making Rs put their name on it

Acquit = approval of 1.6

i.e. make ALLADEM face the same music

I don’t care how...but all 147 need that mark on their record.

I get these are big asks that won’t move to conviction

But given what happened, you can’t leave bullets in the holster

+1, it really is bothering me that Cruz and Hawley aren’t part of the defense team

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 09:28 AM

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108. "this country is a bag of shit."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

racist and evil shit.

these folks called these cop killers, white supremacists, and domestic terrorists ‘patriots’.

almost half the country is perfectly fine with what went on and hovers between thinking what the president did was right or thinking what the president did wasnt wrong.

and almost all republican senators voted to essentially dismiss everything even after that shitshow of an opening defense.

and literally the only reason why any of this is ok is because theyre white and any endeavor in the pursuit of the preservation of whiteness always finds its way to normalization/rationalization.

with the press queueing up a new round of economic anxiety alibis for white aggression and savagery so the root cause never gets fully addressed.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Et3ip2lWQAMnFfA?format=jpg&name=medium

------

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
20857 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 09:53 AM

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109. "RE: this country is a bag of shit."
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

https://twitter.com/JoshMandelOhio/status/1359494010310692873?s=20

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 10:10 AM

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110. "Oh my god."
In response to Reply # 108


          

>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Et3ip2lWQAMnFfA?format=jpg&name=medium

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Hitokiri
Charter member
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Wed Feb-10-21 11:09 AM

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112. "Yep"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

All of this.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
3271 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 01:01 PM

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115. "Yup. None of this matters. Republicans wont convict. "
In response to Reply # 108


          

This is the most shameful shit ive ever seen. We have no business telling any other countries about Democracy. We've become a giant joke

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 03:24 PM

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126. "The saddest thing is that we've always been a giant joke lol"
In response to Reply # 115


          

>This is the most shameful shit ive ever seen. We have no
>business telling any other countries about Democracy. We've
>become a giant joke

We just previously - at times - had noble actions to hang our hats on and to use as ammo to pretend we were righteous as we attempted to spread democracy to other parts of the world. New Deal, WWII, Civil Rights, etc. Easy to tell folks about how democratic you are when you have some of that type of stuff under your belt.

But the country's been slowly moving to the right for 50+ years now (in response to Civil Rights gains lol) so ... here we are. Now we can't do that shit anymore.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2693 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 01:19 PM

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118. "How do you combat shamelessness"
In response to Reply # 108


          

I think it was you or someone else who said this but it sums everything up.

What do you do when half the country is dead wrong out in the open and they don't give a fuck? They dont even make an attempt to hide it.

Like, f u c k "unity" or working with these people. This shit needs to be stomped out.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 05:29 PM

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132. "yup that was me."
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

im all for preaching unity and bipartisanship in public (people still want it...especially the dem base smh).

but behind the scenes...we need to be putting together gameplans to surgically choke the entire conservative movement off and send it the way of the dodo bird. we need to stop treating them like a legitimate center right counterbalance to the liberal majority.

------

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20938 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 05:48 PM

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134. "We need to do it quickly, too."
In response to Reply # 132
Wed Feb-10-21 05:49 PM by Brew

          

>but behind the scenes...we need to be putting together
>gameplans to surgically choke the entire conservative movement
>off and send it the way of the dodo bird. we need to stop
>treating them like a legitimate center right counterbalance to
>the liberal majority.

If dems don't take this golden opportunity to do exactly that while they have control of congress and the WH, they may never be able to get that control again - and the country will be dominated by minority, extremist rule for the foreseeable future. I still think they should pack the courts, among a million other things. Or at least threaten to do so if some major concessions aren't made.

They have exactly 2 years.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/01/manchin-sinema-schumer-mcconnell-filibuster.html

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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select_from_where
Member since Jan 03rd 2011
4337 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 12:44 PM

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114. "Neguse is balling right now"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Really compelling presentation.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42173 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 01:13 PM

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117. "him and castro are bodying this shit"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15383 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 01:30 PM

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120. "Ehh...political intimidation is terrorism by another name"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

That really stood out to me

Rs are driving the narrative of these people being ‘patriots’

Really hope somebody gets legit pissed off and offended

Like yelling, pounding the podium, spittle MAD!

They’re f’n terrorists...and so are their enablers

I did like Castro reminding us of the armed Trumpsters at vote counting locations and elected officials residents

So much fokery... I forgot some of this BS

+ the big gretch plot

Yeah, no logical person was surprised by a violent conclusion on the 6th.

They are doing a great job IMO

...but I need some dunks, hanging on the rim and trash talking...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42173 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 02:07 PM

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123. "I think there was some admission by Republicans that yesterday was"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

the first time they were shown actual footage from the insurrection

The conservative filtering and warping of the events will not stand up to

1) the president's Twitter feed
2) the president's rallies
3) quotes from his supporters
4) footage from Jan 6th

I don't think they've been forced to view all of these things as a whole previously

They've been able to diminish culpability of the president and forget about the dangerous tone of the political climate prior to and following the election because the conservative news bubble did exactly the same.

This is a forum in which the truth can theoretically prevail for once

Some righteous indignation along with the teary eyes would definitely be warranted and good to see

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
5322 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 03:00 PM

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125. "RE: I think there was some admission by Republicans that yesterday was"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

>the first time they were shown actual footage from the
>insurrection
>
>The conservative filtering and warping of the events will not
>stand up to
>
>1) the president's Twitter feed
>2) the president's rallies
>3) quotes from his supporters
>4) footage from Jan 6th
>
>I don't think they've been forced to view all of these things
>as a whole previously
>
>They've been able to diminish culpability of the president and
>forget about the dangerous tone of the political climate prior
>to and following the election because the conservative news
>bubble did exactly the same.
>
>This is a forum in which the truth can theoretically prevail
>for once
>
>Some righteous indignation along with the teary eyes would
>definitely be warranted and good to see

This would all just make it more unforgivable when they say ‘what’s the problem’ and vote against anything resembling punishment for this.

I think those red folks are more aware and okay with what happened than many could imagine.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15383 posts
Thu Feb-11-21 09:10 AM

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139. "The terrorists were reading his tweets over a bullhorn "
In response to Reply # 125
Thu Feb-11-21 09:12 AM by bentagain

  

          

They went from...where’s Nancy?...to hang Mike Pence

The nail in the coffin IMO, is the woman for america first...had initially planned protests for the 22nd/23rd

Similar to the woman’s March in 17’

The date, time and location were changed by Trump.

What other motivation could you assume for that change?

AFAIK, they still never had a permit to march, just a rally in the ellipse

So even directing the terrorists to march on the capitol was illegal

The defense will be entertaining.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
4187 posts
Thu Feb-11-21 09:34 AM

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140. "Nah it was some acting by Republicans"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

>the first time they were shown actual footage from the
>insurrection
>

They've seen the footage, that's not the first time.

>The conservative filtering and warping of the events will not
>stand up to
>
>1) the president's Twitter feed
>2) the president's rallies
>3) quotes from his supporters
>4) footage from Jan 6th
>
>I don't think they've been forced to view all of these things
>as a whole previously
>
>They've been able to diminish culpability of the president and
>forget about the dangerous tone of the political climate prior
>to and following the election because the conservative news
>bubble did exactly the same.
>
>This is a forum in which the truth can theoretically prevail
>for once
>
>Some righteous indignation along with the teary eyes would
>definitely be warranted and good to see


lol they already know what the truth is they don't care.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/538302-gop-senators-appear-to-pay-half-hearted-attention-to-trial-drawing-criticism

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/10/966207859/michigans-top-republican-calls-u-s-capitol-attack-a-hoax

---------------------------
Signature

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
20857 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 01:07 PM

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116. "Today I'm watching on CSPAN and the audacity to acquit this man is"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just disgusting.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2693 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 01:22 PM

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119. "lol at how much video evidence these fucking dolts provided"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-10-21 01:23 PM by sectachrome86

          

against themselves. Tweets too.

Yeah I'm right here!

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
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Wed Feb-10-21 02:09 PM

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124. "RE: lol at how much video evidence these fucking dolts provided"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

>against themselves. Tweets too.
>
>Yeah I'm right here!

They were so gassed up. They were so convinced that what they were doing was right and that it needed to happen. It’s almost like someone kept telling them to do it until they finally got to the right time and place together to go ahead and do something. And that something ended up being the events that are somehow amazingly documented at the capitol. Clearly this was Antifa. Or maybe...

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
16057 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 04:20 PM

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127. "The way the impeachment managers are laying out the case is fantastic"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Clear, methodical, interwoven, and using 45's own words.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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Trinity444
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Wed Feb-10-21 05:18 PM

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129. "beautiful..."
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

giving me chills...

I CANT wait for the vote lol

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11931 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 05:21 PM

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130. "black women be trying their damnedest to save this God forsaken country."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that presentation was amazing.

------

  

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Trinity444
Charter member
41506 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 05:28 PM

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131. "Swalwell dropped the mic on they as*..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

damn.

  

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select_from_where
Member since Jan 03rd 2011
4337 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 05:42 PM

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133. "How the hell can the GOP let trump off after that"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean I know they are terrible, got GOD DAMN Man

  

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The3rdOne
Charter member
8958 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 06:44 PM

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135. "AND they WILL"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

let him off

  

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jimaveli
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5322 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 07:33 PM

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136. "RE: AND they WILL"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

>let him off

Yes they will. I'm almost sure of it.

I'm not sure how they're gonna do it and then show back up to votes and meetings and expect anything other than getting 'left out of the game' whenever possible. Then they'll cry about it, AOC will give them the 'too bad', and Joe will keep on exec ordering and dropping default settings sound bytes.

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6410 posts
Sun Feb-14-21 10:17 AM

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184. "They're terrified of Trumps supporters."
In response to Reply # 133


          

And they should be.


"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12334 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 07:36 PM

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137. "Of all the creeps on this planet,"
In response to Reply # 0


          


there are very few who are quite as creepy as Mike Lee.

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
3271 posts
Wed Feb-10-21 09:04 PM

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138. "He's a sentient garbage can"
In response to Reply # 137


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
16057 posts
Fri Feb-12-21 11:44 AM

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141. "So is it possible for this country to prosper?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The GOP is openly talking with 45's lawyers. Some GOPs are going the Collins route, 45 learned his lesson or the American People don't want him again.

Seriously flawed. At this point its going to have to be about local government, without that, we are fucked.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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handle
Charter member
17127 posts
Fri Feb-12-21 12:08 PM

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142. "No, the Republican party is playing it as a game"
In response to Reply # 141


          

They are cynical to the highest degree.

Probably not going to start playing fair at this point.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12334 posts
Sat Feb-13-21 11:19 AM

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143. "Witnesses!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/13/trump-impeachment-trial-day-5-468985


It was gonna be over tonight. Trump lawyers reportedly had flights booked for tomorrow.

Jaime Herrera Buetler (a Republican who voted to impeach in the house) has notes and wants to testify about the phone call where Trump reportedly told Kevin Mccarthy that the rioters care more about the country than he did.

So the House managers want to call her now. And now that that vote has passed, it'll only take a majority vote for any witness. Nancy? Pence? Mccarthy? The Qanon creep with the horns? Any number of these indicted rioters who've already said in their own cases that they were acting under Trump's direction?

There probably won't be all that. It'll probably just be Buetler. Still, the odds of conviction, and regardless, the pain for scared purple-state Republicans, just changed.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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145. "Bah!"
In response to Reply # 143


          


No fun at all.

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
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Sat Feb-13-21 11:52 AM

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144. "**twiddles thumbs** with the DC AG."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Sat Feb-13-21 01:14 PM

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146. "Democrats are such pussies"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

They never go for broke and get played by these evil Republicans every time.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Sat Feb-13-21 01:59 PM

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149. "Tradeoffs"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

As much as I'd like to see Tommy Tuberville give a deposition, nothing would come of it. All you would get are a bunch of "I do not recall". There wouldn't be bombshell revelations.

The outcome of this thing was decided before it started. Nothing will change any votes. And I don't think it's likely witness will change public perception either.

But the cost would be high. It could tie the senate up for a long time. The clock is ticking on this majority. They need to confirm judges and pass legislation while they still can

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Sat Feb-13-21 03:22 PM

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155. "Calling witnesses is going to take two years?"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

>As much as I'd like to see Tommy Tuberville give a
>deposition, nothing would come of it. All you would get are a
>bunch of "I do not recall". There wouldn't be bombshell
>revelations.

Get everything on the record. Plus, the Democrats look goofy, calling for witnesses then saying, Whoops! We changed our mind." Especially since there are no discernable "trade-offs" here. Republicans aren't going to cooperate with shit no matter what, so why give anything to them based on empty promises?

>The outcome of this thing was decided before it started.
>Nothing will change any votes. And I don't think it's likely
>witness will change public perception either.

Right, so like... they shouldn't have bothered? And the whole "It won't change public perception!" is such a plea cop. The opening arguments, particularly the House Democrats' video, did a lot to crystalize how bad this was.

>But the cost would be high. It could tie the senate up for a
>long time. The clock is ticking on this majority. They need to
>confirm judges and pass legislation while they still can

Yeah, this is B.S. Plus, as said below, they're on vacation next week. So what exactly are they risking holding up?

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Sat Feb-13-21 04:08 PM

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165. "I'd guess it'd take at least a week or two"
In response to Reply # 155
Sat Feb-13-21 04:09 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

  

          

Maybe more if Republicans schemed a way to gum up the works.

When the senate is in session only about half of the weeks of the year, time is a factor. Not to mention how long it takes to get things done.
Republicans doing everything they can to run out the clock

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Sat Feb-13-21 04:39 PM

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"Well, now they have no excuses to not get shit done then"


  

          

So I don't want to hear any more plea cops about obstacles to them implementing their agenda, approve Biden's cabinet positions, or appointing more federal judges. Otherwise, they look even more inept.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sat Feb-13-21 04:49 PM

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171. "If a witness refuses to testify, then yes, it could take years."
In response to Reply # 155


          

It would have to be argued out in the judicial branch, and those cases, and appeals, often take years. Not to mention the jurisdictional concerns that you and I don't take seriously but any judge might start complaining over, strengthening Mcconnell's excuse even further.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sat Feb-13-21 01:59 PM

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150. "i dont even care what the reasons are. there may be some good ones."
In response to Reply # 146
Sat Feb-13-21 02:18 PM by Reeq

  

          

the mixed messaging it sends to the public is horrible.

if witnesses arent necessary...or if an extended impeachment trial presents some roadblock for the biden legislative agenda...then why the fuck did they file a suprise motion to call witnesses in the 1st place? and then why did every dem senator vote to move forward with it?

why arent house and senate dems on the same fucking page for shit this important?

shit is amateur hour. after all of that goodwill they built up with the house managers presentations.

------

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Sat Feb-13-21 03:06 PM

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152. "Plus they're on recess next week lol so the "Biden agenda" cop out .."
In response to Reply # 150


          

... is bullshit on its fucking face.

Dems are so bad at politics.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
12392 posts
Sat Feb-13-21 03:20 PM

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154. "Would and do they have to continue the impeachment during recess?"
In response to Reply # 152


          

I can see all the GQP just going home for a week to slow the whole process down.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Sat Feb-13-21 03:25 PM

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157. "They could've worked thru recess I think."
In response to Reply # 154


          

But as we well know, they don't like working.

BTW I love "GQP" gonna use that from now on thx. Haha.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Sat Feb-13-21 03:23 PM

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156. "Incompetent idiots"
In response to Reply # 150


          


Just a straight up fucking shit show.

They managed to like like liars, cowards,
morons, and corrupt in one swoop.

Lost all kinds of goodwill and getting dunked on
from all sides.

And the story just changed.

I’d bet there are prominent Dems who don’t want
him convicted cuz they think him running again
in 24 would be good for Dems.


Seriously they are just fucking awful at this.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
40929 posts
Sat Feb-13-21 01:48 PM

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147. "Everyone prepared for no state charges too?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Cause uh...if you haven’t learned to just live disappointed yet...

------------------------------
'19-'20 Bubble Lakers

X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X

2020 NBA Champions

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
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Sat Feb-13-21 01:51 PM

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148. "How Sway? the DC AG is popping popcorn and just told them to"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

kick back from that witness shit.. He got this..

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sat Feb-13-21 02:05 PM

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151. "where are you getting this from?"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

the dc ag isnt even sure they can prosecute trump under district statutes.

plus the case is tenuous at best unless they have trump explicitly conspiring to get people to invade the capitol and kill police officers or politicians.

------

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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153. "HAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
In response to Reply # 148


          

You are just the best. Perpetual optimism despite literally batting .000

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4150 posts
Sat Feb-13-21 03:25 PM

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158. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 153


          


I’ve never seen someone be so wrong so many times
and still be a confident asshole.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sat Feb-13-21 03:38 PM

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161. "After 4 years of this dude being invincible, it's not optimism. it's del..."
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

I'm all for being hopefull and pushing back against cynicism but that sort of arrogance in the face of this is straight up delusional

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Sat Feb-13-21 04:21 PM

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166. "Definitely. This is the same dude "
In response to Reply # 161


          


Who predicted Pence was getting indicted one
weekend, predicted Barr was a sleeper agent
for Mueller, all kinds of batshit naive stuff.

And then was an arrogant asshole to anyone
who questioned him or disagreed.

Weird stuff. A lot more than optimism as you
pointed out.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Sat Feb-13-21 03:25 PM

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159. "Weren't you saying the same shit about Mueller?"
In response to Reply # 148
Sat Feb-13-21 03:32 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

AG's got what, exactly?

What do you think the outcome here is?

The best case scenario there is, Trump gets prosecuted for a misdemeanor. Worse, he doesn't have the authority to get Trump to DC to take those charges.

So what's he got?

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Sat Feb-13-21 03:28 PM

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160. "Way more than just Mueller lol."
In response to Reply # 159


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
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Sat Feb-13-21 09:49 PM

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179. "lol awesome"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30586 posts
Sun Feb-14-21 08:56 AM

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181. "I want to believe. I really do "
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Sun Feb-14-21 10:10 AM

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183. "Labeathustla=Woody Harrelson, OKP=Kenan. https://youtu.be/xiKrWUoTq4s?t..."
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

https://youtu.be/xiKrWUoTq4s?t=191s

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sat Feb-13-21 03:50 PM

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162. "this is honestly a pretty good result for dems in the end."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Feb-13-21 03:56 PM by Reeq

  

          

kinda better than expected.

clear bipartisan majority vote to convict with a 7 or so republicans joining in. apparently the most bipartisan conviction vote in history.

that dynamic most likely wasnt gonna change no matter what other evidence was presented.

hopefully that toomey guilty vote can cause havoc in his primary race in 2022 and help fracture the repub state party.

------

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Sat Feb-13-21 03:59 PM

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163. "What's the deal with Cassidy from Louisiana?"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

Trump call his mama a ho or something?

Everyone else on that list is the usual suspects. But Cassidy seems like the typical go with the party Republican.

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Sat Feb-13-21 04:05 PM

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164. "I agree and don’t understand all the angst on witness reversal here"
In response to Reply # 162


          

The Dems could call all the witnesses they wanted but unless one of them was going to be Pence, the vote wasn’t going to change enough to hold up the rest of Biden’s agenda.

I think the reversal on witnesses was largely a result of McConnell letting it be known that he was going to vote to acquit trump. Once his mind was made it up and his intentions were known it wasn’t worth prolonging this with witnesses, unless you could get someone like Pence or Meadows to not only come testify but basically blame trump, which wasn’t going to happen.

Getting 7 GQP senators is a great outcome for the Dems and it allows them to continue to work on Biden’s agenda.

Dems got all the sound bites and footage they need for 22 to attack the GOP.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Sat Feb-13-21 04:27 PM

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167. "Nah "
In response to Reply # 162


          


You parade witnesses and continue to control
the narrative as best you can.

You definitely don’t vote for them, then decline.

Who is to say witnesses don’t sway 3 more?


And this has nothing to do with the Biden agenda.

22?? Dems couldn’t even handle shit down
ballot in 20.


I get it. 57 votes is pleasantly surprising, but it’s
nothing to celebrate- especially considering Dems
had more ammo.

If anything, it makes it more frustrating they didn’t
call witnesses.

Your initial reaction was right- Dems fucked up
today.

I thought Toomey wasn’t running

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12334 posts
Sat Feb-13-21 04:39 PM

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169. "We needed 10 more, not 3 "
In response to Reply # 167


          

It's a 2/3 supermajority that's needed to convict. That wasn't gonna happen.

More likely, the scandal of the day, which honestly might have been what swayed a few of those seven Republicans, would have faded into the noise. And then we would have finished with even fewer votes to convict.

If there had been an agreement to call witnesses, the only agreement that might have won 50 votes would have stipulated equal numbers of witnesses by both sides. ANY of those witnesses could have resisted the subpoena (literally the Trump side could have chosen someone specifically with the goal that they refuse to testify), and this would have put the trial on hold for months if not years. Don McGahn's resistance of a subpoena from before the *previous* impeachment is still being fought out in court.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Sat Feb-13-21 05:58 PM

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172. "yeah that hit me like 20 minutes later. My bad"
In response to Reply # 169


          


I definitely slapped my forehead.

>It's a 2/3 supermajority that's needed to convict. That
>wasn't gonna happen.

My point certainly isn't as strong, but I still think if you're 10 away you call witnesses.

Mostly my point is if you vote for witnesses, don't fucking turn them down. What a mess.

>
>More likely, the scandal of the day, which honestly might have
>been what swayed a few of those seven Republicans, would have
>faded into the noise. And then we would have finished with
>even fewer votes to convict.

Hmmm maybe but I doubt it.
>
>If there had been an agreement to call witnesses, the only
>agreement that might have won 50 votes would have stipulated
>equal numbers of witnesses by both sides. ANY of those
>witnesses could have resisted the subpoena (literally the
>Trump side could have chosen someone specifically with the
>goal that they refuse to testify), and this would have put the
>trial on hold for months if not years. Don McGahn's resistance
>of a subpoena from before the *previous* impeachment is still
>being fought out in court.

I still think you go for it. If you (rightfully) accuse the other side of sedition, you don't leave anything on the table.

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Sat Feb-13-21 04:40 PM

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170. "Toomey has stated he is retiring "
In response to Reply # 167
Sat Feb-13-21 04:43 PM by calij81

          

Three more votes would be great but I’m not sure you get that with witnesses and 3 isn’t enough to convict as you need 67. 60 votes doesn’t add much more or accomplish anything that Dems already get with 57.

Which 3 GQP senators do you feel would be likely to change their votes?

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Sat Feb-13-21 06:02 PM

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173. "I thought so"
In response to Reply # 170


          

>Three more votes would be great but I’m not sure you get
>that with witnesses and 3 isn’t enough to convict as you
>need 67. 60 votes doesn’t add much more or accomplish
>anything that Dems already get with 57.

Yeah I fucked that up. See above. My bad. Forgot it was 67.

>
>Which 3 GQP senators do you feel would be likely to change
>their votes?

No idea, but did you think Burr and Cassidy would vote to convict?

My 60 point is clearly not applicable, but I still think you call witnesses.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Sat Feb-13-21 04:27 PM

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168. "McConnell:"no question Trump practically & morally responsible for provo..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

McConnell, who voted to acquit, is excoriating Trump for a "disgraceful dereliction of duty." "There's no question - none - that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day."

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1360697577776242694?s=19

Like he didn't just vote not guilty on this exact issue less than an hour earlier lol

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
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Sat Feb-13-21 06:55 PM

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177. "RE: McConnell:"no question Trump practically & morally responsible for p..."
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

>McConnell, who voted to acquit, is excoriating Trump for a
>"disgraceful dereliction of duty." "There's no question - none
>- that President Trump is practically and morally responsible
>for provoking the events of the day."
>
>https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1360697577776242694?s=19
>
>Like he didn't just vote not guilty on this exact issue less
>than an hour earlier lol
>

I hate these folks.

They announce to us on a regular basis with an air horn that they do not decide things/vote based on what they actually think. Every vote is what I call a ‘loaded vote’ where politics is more important than anything else. As long as that is the case, we will continue on our way to some level of failure we all can all see coming at some point.

I want to believe we will be better off when these folks die out. But looking around, I am not sure if their shitbag kids, followers, and hanging on assclown are anything to hope for.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12334 posts
Sat Feb-13-21 06:06 PM

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174. "In retrospect today's decision not to call witnesses makes perfect sense..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

All the managers hoped to get was the testimony of Jaime Herrera Buetler. They got it in the record, they just didn't get it repeated live.

If they'd insisted on her testifying, then the senate would have needed to get 50 votes on a plan for that (the vote that they won today was just in the question of whether to debate the calling of witnesses, not any specific plan). According to reports, they didn't have 50 votes for JUST Herrera Buetler. The deal that they could have gotten would have required an equal number of witnesses from both sides.

After the Trump team got their shit together, it's obvious what they would have done. They'd say Herrera Buetler was talking secondhand about a call between Trump and Kevin Mccarthy. So they'd call Kevin Mccarthy. He'd refuse to show up, on the (specious) grounds that the senate supposedly doesn't have jurisdiction now that Trump is out of office. That would hold up the case indefinitely -- literally years if he exhausted his appeals.


In the end, the managers got what they wanted (Buetler's statement added to the record) by playing hardball and asking for more than that. If they'd just asked to amend the record of the case, they likely would have lost that battle.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4150 posts
Sat Feb-13-21 06:17 PM

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175. "how is getting her testimony on the record right before acquittal"
In response to Reply # 174


          

a win?

I'm honestly asking- what does that do?

>All the managers hoped to get was the testimony of Jaime
>Herrera Buetler. They got it in the record, they just didn't
>get it repeated live.

Which I think could have been fairly powerful. Enough to sway 10? Probably not. But it could still be powerful going forward.
>
>If they'd insisted on her testifying, then the senate would
>have needed to get 50 votes on a plan for that (the vote that
>they won today was just in the question of whether to debate
>the calling of witnesses, not any specific plan). According to
>reports, they didn't have 50 votes for JUST Herrera Buetler.
>The deal that they could have gotten would have required an
>equal number of witnesses from both sides.
>
>After the Trump team got their shit together,

See, I saw nothing that would make me think they would ever get their shit together.

it's obvious
>what they would have done. They'd say Herrera Buetler was
>talking secondhand about a call between Trump and Kevin
>Mccarthy. So they'd call Kevin Mccarthy. He'd refuse to show
>up, on the (specious) grounds that the senate supposedly
>doesn't have jurisdiction now that Trump is out of office.
>That would hold up the case indefinitely -- literally years if
>he exhausted his appeals.

Hmmm if McCarthy refused to show, couldn't they just say "okay, lets vote then"?

Regardless, couldn't Dems just say then "what is the GOP/McCarthy hiding?"


And even if it did get delayed for years, what is the difference then now? He was acquitted.

>
>
>In the end, the managers got what they wanted (Buetler's
>statement added to the record) by playing hardball and asking
>for more than that. If they'd just asked to amend the record
>of the case, they likely would have lost that battle.

I'm struggling to see what the victory was in getting it on the record right before he was acquitted.

At that point, whats the difference?


Seems like the Dem plan is to hang this on the GOP's neck for years. Especially if the argument is/was that the senate will never convict, it seems like this was a political play.

I don't see how calling witnesses, even if it means the GOP plays some bullshit, is any less of a political play.

If literally all it does is provide soundbites for commercials, seems like a better play.



  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12334 posts
Sat Feb-13-21 06:46 PM

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176. "Given that he was NEVER going to get convicted,"
In response to Reply # 175


          


which you largely seem to agree on, then what was the point of any of it?

They wanted to make a statement, and the stronger the better. Unfortunately the significance of that statement was always gonna be measured in senate votes.

Overall they got 17 elected Republicans, including some very big names, to impeach in the house or convict in the senate. That's not much, but it's a bigger statement than anyone got out of the three previous presidential impeachments.

And a few more more Senators, including McConnell and Portman on the record so far, had to admit that the managers proved their case, that their not-guilty votes were only on jurisdictional grounds. In other words, if Trump were still in office, they said on the record that they would have voted to convict.

The managers got that because they were able to maximize their factual case, including this tactic at the end. Maybe today's intrigue didn't add much to the case, but because they were able to get through it quickly, it added something and didn't subtract anything. If they'd let things drag on indefinitely and become the circus that the Trump lawyers wanted to make it, public opinion would have turned and we'd have ended up with a 46-54 result.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4150 posts
Sat Feb-13-21 11:14 PM

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180. "RE: Given that he was NEVER going to get convicted,"
In response to Reply # 176
Sat Feb-13-21 11:19 PM by Stadiq

          

>
>which you largely seem to agree on, then what was the point of
>any of it?

Yeah that is my point. If the idea is to make a statement, then go all out with the statement.

The argument against that seems to be "make a statement, but lets get past the statement quickly and wait what will GOP voters think of us lets hurry..." which is classic.
>
>They wanted to make a statement, and the stronger the better.
>Unfortunately the significance of that statement was always
>gonna be measured in senate votes.
>
>Overall they got 17 elected Republicans, including some very
>big names, to impeach in the house or convict in the senate.
>That's not much, but it's a bigger statement than anyone got
>out of the three previous presidential impeachments.

Sure...and as I said above, thats cool but not worth celebrating.

My man, they stormed the fucking capital with the Confederate flag!

Let them own this for longer. Let them own the testimonies. If nothing else, get soundbites for commercials. Control the news for a little while longer. Dare the braintrust that is the Trump defense to call their witnesses (lol).


>
>And a few more more Senators, including McConnell and Portman
>on the record so far, had to admit that the managers proved
>their case, that their not-guilty votes were only on
>jurisdictional grounds. In other words, if Trump were still in
>office, they said on the record that they would have voted to
>convict.

Which I contend would not change had witnesses been called.

I have yet to see a good reason to not call witnesses. And as I've said, maybe I am missing the importance of the official record so I am open to explanation of why I should be happy that a statement is officially in the record of an acquittal.



>
>The managers got that because they were able to maximize their
>factual case, including this tactic at the end. Maybe today's
>intrigue didn't add much to the case, but because they were
>able to get through it quickly, it added something and didn't
>subtract anything. If they'd let things drag on indefinitely
>and become the circus that the Trump lawyers wanted to make
>it, public opinion would have turned and we'd have ended up
>with a 46-54 result.
>

I mean, you think that would happen based on what?

I disagree. I think witnesses help hammer the point home. I refuse to believe witnesses decreases support for impeachment. And absolute worst case scenario is 51 votes to impeach. Cmon. That is another classic Democrat move- paint some abstract scary picture where they lose big by acting. 46? lol cmon.

Even Romney was pissed. 51 was the absolute floor.

So 51 (absolute worst fucking case) votes to convict and actual testimony versus 57 and one person's statement in the official record?

I'm still lost at how getting statements officially in the record is some sort of win.

That seems like lowering the bar for Democrats as a lot of their most passionate defenders tend to do. Look for moral victories or intellectual victories or inventing doomsday scenarios to justify their inaction.

No one is going to be swayed by the official record so I am open to what that actually does.

Live testimony? Now that can sway people.

And, again, I refuse to believe the Trump defense would suddenly get their shit together.

The "we got her statement in the official record" is the "she won the popular vote!" of 2021.

No one cares.

I'm also lost at how Democrats and their most passionate supports can go on and on and on about how fantastic the Impeachment Mangers were, but at the same time somehow not trust them to handle witnesses.


Nah. Break for 3 weeks for depositions. Stop fucking bullshitting and get COVID relief done, and resume the trial in a few weeks. Call witnesses. Control the cycle a little, let the Trump team call their witnesses (lol) and see what happens.

On no planet does that lead to only 46 votes to impeach. Unless the House Managers suddenly become terrible at this. Not even then.


  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12334 posts
Sun Feb-14-21 11:50 AM

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185. "RE: Given that he was NEVER going to get convicted,"
In response to Reply # 180


          

>>
>>which you largely seem to agree on, then what was the point
>of
>>any of it?
>
>Yeah that is my point. If the idea is to make a statement,
>then go all out with the statement.

I don't see why we'd call it "going all out" if doing it loses senate votes and tries the public's patience. Seems like a more apt phrase would be "wear out their welcome."

More words doesn't necessarily equate to a stronger case, especially if they're all words that everyone's already heard. It's a simple case. Everyone knows the facts. Keep it simple.

Case in point: this morning we have reports coming in that they were going to lose "guilty" votes if the trial didn't wrap up *that day*. This has been explicitly reported for Richard Burr, and it's likely the case with Cassiday as well (who we know had a speech prepared to justify a "not guilty" verdict using the same jurisdictional copout).


Nobody wanted to see live witnesses more than I did. You can see that in a very excited post I made above. But I wanted to see witnesses because I like seeing Republicans getting raked over the coals. People who aren't hyper-partisan Democrats don't get as much satisfaction as I do in being reminded about their complicity in a fascist coup attempt. What I wanted would have been counterproductive, not just with the senators, but also with the voters. I would love it if it were possible to shame the Trump voters into never voting again. Sadly that's not how the system works.


>The argument against that seems to be "make a statement, but
>lets get past the statement quickly and wait what will GOP
>voters think of us lets hurry..." which is classic.
>>
>>They wanted to make a statement, and the stronger the
>better.
>>Unfortunately the significance of that statement was always
>>gonna be measured in senate votes.
>>
>>Overall they got 17 elected Republicans, including some very
>>big names, to impeach in the house or convict in the senate.
>>That's not much, but it's a bigger statement than anyone got
>>out of the three previous presidential impeachments.
>
>Sure...and as I said above, thats cool but not worth
>celebrating.


I don't know who you think is celebrating what. The gambit to get Buetler's testimony into the record took about thirty minutes. It wasn't a big deal and nobody ever said it was.

But there was a point to it that I think we should clarify. You ask what the point is of getting it into the record. By "the record" I don't just mean the congressional record that gets read by historians in the year 2400. By "the record," I mean the evidenciary record of the trial. According to the rules of this trial (as for any normal judicial trial), evidence can only be discussed if it's known to both sides ahead of time. All of the tapes, all of the transcripts, all of the quotes that everyone referred to, was listed in documents prepared and shared by the legal teams at the start of the trial.

You might remember that one of the house managers, Madeleine Dean, in her closing statement, tried to play a video that "wasn't in the record." As it turned out, the text of what was said in that video was in the record, but that particular video itself was not. Seems to have just been a mixup on the part of the house managers. But she had to stop, mid presentation, while they figured out how to respond to the objection. In the end, she couldn't show the video and had to apologize.

That's why the managers needed to amend the record to get Buetler's statement added. The statement wasn't out yet when the trial started. So if they didn't get it added to the record, they couldn't have even discussed it in their closing statements. It was maybe the most damning and visceral piece of evidence they had, and they wouldn't have even been allowed to mention it if they hadn't gotten it admitted into evidence.




>My man, they stormed the fucking capital with the Confederate
>flag!
>
>Let them own this for longer. Let them own the testimonies.
>If nothing else, get soundbites for commercials. Control the
>news for a little while longer. Dare the braintrust that is
>the Trump defense to call their witnesses (lol).
>
>
>>
>>And a few more more Senators, including McConnell and
>Portman
>>on the record so far, had to admit that the managers proved
>>their case, that their not-guilty votes were only on
>>jurisdictional grounds. In other words, if Trump were still
>in
>>office, they said on the record that they would have voted
>to
>>convict.
>
>Which I contend would not change had witnesses been called.
>
>I have yet to see a good reason to not call witnesses. And as
>I've said, maybe I am missing the importance of the official
>record so I am open to explanation of why I should be happy
>that a statement is officially in the record of an acquittal.

Well again, the reason not to call witnesses is that they would have lost at least one vote, maybe two, if they hadn't found a way to wrap up *that day*. And it only would have gone downhill from there as Republicans all up and down the government form a chorus of "this is such a waste of time!" Yesterday, the narrative was on our side and more concentrated than it would ever be again. Every good writer knows that if you can say the same thing in two different ways, you choose the way that requires fewer words. (I, by the way, am clearly not a good writer.)




>>
>>The managers got that because they were able to maximize
>their
>>factual case, including this tactic at the end. Maybe
>today's
>>intrigue didn't add much to the case, but because they were
>>able to get through it quickly, it added something and
>didn't
>>subtract anything. If they'd let things drag on indefinitely
>>and become the circus that the Trump lawyers wanted to make
>>it, public opinion would have turned and we'd have ended up
>>with a 46-54 result.
>>
>
>I mean, you think that would happen based on what?
>
>I disagree. I think witnesses help hammer the point home.

A point that everyone already agrees on? If people are already saying "yes he's guilty but we're gonna acquit him anyway" then the only point they can make is already home.


>I
>refuse to believe witnesses decreases support for impeachment.
>And absolute worst case scenario is 51 votes to impeach. Cmon.
> That is another classic Democrat move- paint some abstract
>scary picture where they lose big by acting. 46? lol cmon.
>
>Even Romney was pissed. 51 was the absolute floor.

I think Romney would have gone along with us for one more week. Murkowski too. Remember, their brand isn't "Trump is bad." their brand is "Partisan retribution is bad, especially when it distracts from our work."

Collins definitely wouldn't stick around. She hates Democrats with a fiery passion right now. Any random comment could have pushed her off the bus.

Sasse makes the right noises on the facts of the case, but the man represents Nebraska for god's sake. Every day he continues to be the Republican face of the post-Trump era is a day he puts his reelection at risk. Lucky for him he's not up again until 2026. But if he loses confidence that the fever will break by then he starts looking for an exit ramp. By the way, he voted against witnesses in the first impeachment trial, where witnesses were obviously more important than in this case.

Toomey doesn't seem to give much of a shit either way. He's on his way out the door and not really interested in any of it anymore. If you told him a vote for witnesses would complicate his weekend schedule, he'd vote against witnesses.

And then there's Burr and Cassiday, both of whom were on a knife's edge about the decision, easily could have voted to acquit, and likely would have done so if the trial had lasted one more day.

Then we have *our* caucus to worry about.

Joe Manchin can only go so far. Trump won 70% of the vote in his state! Honestly we should all be on our knees right now begging him not to switch parties. That would definitely be the smart career move for him.

The same applies to Jon Tester, only slightly less extreme.

Mark Kelly and Raphael Warnock just got elected in special elections. That means they'll need to run again, without much of a record, in states with razor-thin party margins, in a year that will almost certainly be very bad for the incumbent party (especially if a narrative sets in that we care more about retribution than about the pandemic or the economy). I certainly don't think Warnock would change his vote (Kelly I'm not as certain about), but if this case dragged on, that's two more seats we lose in 2022.

Then there's Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada and Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire, both up for reelection in 2022. If 2022 is a hard year for Democrats, as everyone expects it to be, then those two are the first to lose their seats (after Warnock and Kelly). Neither one of them is gonna say Trump isn't guilty, but if this trial starts to smell like retribution and becomes unpopular in their states, they look for a procedural exit and Mitch has one giftwrapped for them with a bow.



So assuming Warnock holds his ground, at this point I think we'd have 45 votes to convict if this took another month.



>So 51 (absolute worst fucking case) votes to convict and
>actual testimony versus 57 and one person's statement in the
>official record?
>
>I'm still lost at how getting statements officially in the
>record is some sort of win.
>
>That seems like lowering the bar for Democrats as a lot of
>their most passionate defenders tend to do. Look for moral
>victories or intellectual victories or inventing doomsday
>scenarios to justify their inaction.


It sounds like you have a narrative in your head about "what Democrats do" and you'd rather rely on that narrative than try to figure out why they do what they do.


>No one is going to be swayed by the official record so I am
>open to what that actually does.


And just to emphasize because you keep coming back to it. "The record" isn't just some document for the ages. It's the set of facts that the managers were allowed to talk about in their closing statements. There would have been zero discussion of this phone call on the final day if they hadn't succeeded in getting it added into the record.


>Live testimony? Now that can sway people.
>
>And, again, I refuse to believe the Trump defense would
>suddenly get their shit together.


They don't have to be smart, they just have to stick to their guns. And let's be clear, the only day that was bad for the Trump team, politically, was the first day. After the first day the Trump lawyers were reading off scripts, literally written for them by political operatives. They weren't trying to make a legal case after the first day. They were relying on political red meat because that's all they needed. And let's never forget, Trump's political team is pretty damn skilled at getting fascists' blood pumping.


>The "we got her statement in the official record" is the "she
>won the popular vote!" of 2021.
>
>No one cares.
>
>I'm also lost at how Democrats and their most passionate
>supports can go on and on and on about how fantastic the
>Impeachment Mangers were, but at the same time somehow not
>trust them to handle witnesses.

I've never heard anyone say they don't trust the impeachment managers with witnesses. I've certainly never said it. The issue is simply that there's negligible upside in getting more testimony on facts on which everybody is convinced, and huge downside in the procedural costs to get there.


>Nah. Break for 3 weeks for depositions. Stop fucking
>bullshitting and get COVID relief done

I could be wrong on this, but I believe they'd have to vote to suspend the trial if they wanted to do any other Senate business in the interim. Then there'd be debate on THAT. The House managers would have to give tortured speeches on "We've made an airtight case here, but now we need you to pause everything so we can get you a little more. Hold the phone, brb..."

And then the Trump lawyers get to rant and rave some more about "They should have sorted all this out before they impeached!!!1! If they need more evidence they should have gotten it before the trial!!1! This is just them admitting that they don't have a case and they never did!!!" Legally speaking, this argument is bullshit, but in a political setting it gets more convincing with every passing day.

>, and resume the trial
>in a few weeks. Call witnesses. Control the cycle a little,
>let the Trump team call their witnesses (lol) and see what
>happens.

We know what happens to their witnesses. Those witnesses don't show up. Then we go to court, then we win in court, then they appeal, then we win again, then they appeal again. Then we say "This is silly, let's just go forward with the testimony we have." Then the Trump team says "This is outrageous!!! How do they get their witnesses and we don't get any?!!!" Senate Democrats were already insisting yesterday that there must be equal witnesses for both sides. Suddenly what had been a very clean case becomes a clusterfuck.


>On no planet does that lead to only 46 votes to impeach.
>Unless the House Managers suddenly become terrible at this.
>Not even then.

As I said above, I'm now prepared to amend that estimate down to 45. Wouldn't that number be a fun coincidence.

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6410 posts
Sat Feb-13-21 07:24 PM

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178. "400 degreez track 2"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15383 posts
Sun Feb-14-21 09:44 AM

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182. "Don’t fall for the okey doke irt Ds rescinding witness request "
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Feb-14-21 09:48 AM by bentagain

  

          

They wanted the McCarthy reference included in the record

Rs conceded, Ds rescinded (c) Raskin

Everything else is BS

This was the most documented crime in history

and the defense still tried to claim the evidence was doctored

Nothing was going to change the lie used to justify acquittal

Belknap is precedent for impeachment after leaving office

I believe that was Raskin’s opening, the January exception

It undermines impeachment all together, otherwise anyone could just resign

Obviously disappointed in the verdict

But I thought the house managers did an excellent job

The timeline they put together is truly terrifying...7 minutes...or a couple hundred feet...

SMH

Plaskett 2024...I guess...shrug

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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select_from_where
Member since Jan 03rd 2011
4337 posts
Mon Feb-15-21 12:04 PM

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186. "I am convinced Joe stuck his nose in that witness request"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Joe is sick of the pointless exercise, and is sick of trump sucking up the light during his presidency.

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
5322 posts
Mon Feb-15-21 01:33 PM

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187. "RE: I am convinced Joe stuck his nose in that witness request"
In response to Reply # 186


  

          

>Joe is sick of the pointless exercise, and is sick of trump
>sucking up the light during his presidency.

If DT gets tied up in court for while where the jurors aren’t his bros and ex-subordinates/current followers/folks with something to lose by playing shit fair, maybe he ends up out of a lot of time and money. But I’d be shocked if he did any time ore got derailed from whatever he is planning to do these next few years. We aren’t lucky enough for anything to happen to him that would force him to go all the way away. At least I don’t think so.

  

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