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Subject: "‘I’m young, Black and not all that impressed with Barack Obama’" Previous topic | Next topic
Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Dec-18-20 10:08 AM

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"‘I’m young, Black and not all that impressed with Barack Obama’"
Fri Dec-18-20 10:11 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

This is another example of what I call putting your progressiveness before your blackness.

This will go viral and the kid will get some shine because you can always make a name for yourself in this country if you are black and sh*t on other black people in white media.

This reminds me talking to my nieces and nephews and they got a lot to say about choices we made ("Why would you work for someone else?") and I literally got t-shirts older then them. All I can say is, you gonna learn.

My first question to this kid would be, who are you impressed with if you aren't impressed with the first Black President?

Update Edit: What's interesting I was prepared to read this and thought it would be an "Obama is a War Criminal" type article which I hate but I hate less because its base on policy and their is credence to it but this opinion is based on, saying "Defund the Police" hurt certain campaigns? And his conversations with LeBron? SMH.

https://news.yahoo.com/m-young-black-not-impressed-230538303.html

‘I’m young, Black and not all that impressed with Barack Obama’ | Opinion
Malik Pitchford
Tue, December 15, 2020, 6:05 PM EST



Barack Obama has spent the past several months promoting his political memoir, “A Promised Land.” But the former president’s messaging is out of touch, tone-deaf and indicative of his personal and class interests.

I’m Black and 20 years old. I wasn’t able to vote in either of Obama’s presidential races, but I can see his appeal today. In his television, radio and online appearances, Obama exudes presidential charm, while pushing narratives of respectability. This is unlike the ideals of “hope,” “change” and “progress” that he ran on in 2008.

But let’s not forget how Obama chastised former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick for the “pain” he caused others in taking a knee during the national anthem. And, more recently, the NBA rejoiced when Obama urged the Milwaukee Bucks to call off their strike protesting the Jacob Blake shooting.

- ADVERTISEMENT -

Obama also showed how out-of-touch he is with young progressives in a Dec. 2 Snapchat interview. “Socialism is still a loaded term for some folks,” he clucked. “We should focus on talking about getting certain things done.”

The truth is, among young American adults, socialism is as popular an ideology as free-market capitalism, according to a 2019 Gallup poll. Maybe labels and ideology aren’t all that important. After all, voters in Florida — which went for Donald Trump — supported raising the state’s minimum wage to $15, an issue President-elect Joe Biden ran on.

In Obama’s recent Breakfast Club appearance, host Charlamagne tha God read an excerpt from “A Promised Land.” He asked if Obama felt it was still necessary, still, to soften “blunt truths” about racism in America, for white people’s benefit. Obama didn’t answer directly.

Instead, mentioning polling after the murder of George Floyd, Obama said, “Many more white Americans were willing to acknowledge problems in the criminal-justice system based on race.” He said Black people need to build “coalitions” to win votes, and, “as a consequence,” must “pay attention to how other folks are feeling.”

Obama has often lectured others against “snappy slogans” like “defund the police,” arising in response to decades of anti-Black policing. He’s told Black communities that he does not like our tone in how we call for safe communities — via divesting from policing and investing in Black communities — because it isn’t marketable to others.

While polling does show that support for defunding the police is low, but polling does not accurately measure opinions on the Black Lives Matter movement’s concrete goals. Regardless, calls to “defund the police” were never supposed to be a political line for Democrats to run on. Yet, Democrats increased their voter registration in light of BLM protests.

It’s clear Obama and Democrats don’t want to jeopardize white suburban and rural support. This year, Democrats performed better with both white men (with and without degrees), and college-graduate white women, compared to 2016.

And though Democrats took white voters from Trump, it was at the expense of voters of color, including Black people. With the exception of a handful of battleground states, the Democrats underperformed in Black, Latinx and Asian communities throughout the country.

Obama’s book tour is just that, a book tour. Treating him as a thought leader for young people, or as the last “cool” president, is incorrect. His politics have always been that of a cautious centrist. His support for reforming broken systems, rather than the “Yes we can” attitude he fostered in 2008, makes him an inspiration best left in the past.

Malik Pitchford is a journalist and student at DePaul University in Chicago, where he studies political science and the African and Black diaspora.

©2020 Tribune Content Agency

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Is he saying anything Coates hasn't?
Dec 18th 2020
1
^^^^
Dec 19th 2020
24
but....you're playing into it as planned....
Dec 18th 2020
2
you're giving him way more attention than he deserves
Dec 18th 2020
3
^^^^^
Dec 18th 2020
6
Obama put his conservatism before his blackness.
Dec 18th 2020
4
And criticizing an elected official is not the same as...this
Dec 18th 2020
5
^This man said BHO taunted Flint People by drinking water.
Dec 18th 2020
12
      His water drinking stunt was pretty bad. Hope you're not defending it
Dec 18th 2020
15
      He...*pretended to* drink their contaminated water.
Dec 18th 2020
21
      They said the water was safe, then had O take a fake sip...
Dec 19th 2020
26
what blackness?
Dec 18th 2020
7
      True.
Dec 18th 2020
8
      We defining other people's blackness now?
Dec 19th 2020
35
           Yeah that was absurd. Unless u pass for White you will have a Black
Dec 20th 2020
44
           I dont gauge blackness on whether white people are mean or not.
Dec 21st 2020
56
                Absurd. It’s some crazy ass muthafuccas that’s post here.
Dec 21st 2020
62
                absurd and disheartening.
Dec 21st 2020
69
                Fine. He's black, and his administration was anti-black.
Dec 21st 2020
71
                ^attacking people instead of ideas
Dec 21st 2020
70
                ^^^^
Dec 22nd 2020
93
                yup.
Dec 23rd 2020
94
I wonder if he will make money or did he wait too long to jump..
Dec 18th 2020
9
Don't be swayed by the loud and angry folks online.
Dec 18th 2020
14
being first won't be all that impressive to younger folks.
Dec 18th 2020
10
Lol this is 8 YEARS LATE I didn't even vote for Obama 2nd term
Dec 18th 2020
11
Obama's blackness
Dec 18th 2020
13
I stopped at "20 years old"
Dec 18th 2020
16
basically...
Dec 18th 2020
18
Prodigy wrote shook ones at 19
Dec 18th 2020
20
No matter how much loot I get I'm stayin in the projects, forever....
Dec 23rd 2020
96
^Attacking people instead of ideas.
Dec 18th 2020
22
      "attacking" lol
Dec 18th 2020
23
           Answer the question
Dec 19th 2020
27
                what part of i stopped did you not understand
Dec 19th 2020
30
                     ^Proudly uninformed and opinionated.
Dec 21st 2020
57
                          i didn't read an op-ed about a 20 year old is impressed with
Dec 21st 2020
60
                               https://googlethatforyou.com?q=fred%20hampton
Dec 21st 2020
63
                                    the op-ed kid is the new Fred Hampton?
Dec 21st 2020
64
                                         Ok. You're one of those types. Master deflector. Nvm.
Dec 21st 2020
66
I'm young(ish), black, and VERY impressed with Obama
Dec 18th 2020
17
I'm failing to see where he said anything that was incorrect
Dec 18th 2020
19
ironically, Obama does a whole lot of this nowadays:
Dec 19th 2020
25
People want left-wing people to have standards for socialism and a
Dec 19th 2020
28
What ?
Dec 19th 2020
33
      RE: What ?
Dec 19th 2020
34
           Nah
Dec 19th 2020
36
                Gore lost because thousands of Nader voters in Florida didn't vote for
Dec 20th 2020
37
                     Nah again
Dec 20th 2020
38
                     There were thousands of lefties who voted for Nader in Florida in 2000
Dec 20th 2020
40
                          Still nah
Dec 20th 2020
41
                               You're running all over the place to try to escape the fact that those
Dec 20th 2020
42
                                    Another nah
Dec 20th 2020
43
                                         Obama won like Carter won like Biden won
Dec 20th 2020
46
                                              Carter only won once
Dec 20th 2020
47
                                                   Trump .... they are really voting for.....Bernie.
Dec 20th 2020
48
                                                        No
Dec 20th 2020
49
                                                             "progressives were too shell shocked over Trump to protest over Biden"
Dec 21st 2020
52
                                                                  Some more nah and no
Dec 21st 2020
54
                     Gore lost because thousands of voters in Florida didn't vote for him.
Dec 22nd 2020
78
Please...I'm 20 years older than this kid and I agree with him
Dec 19th 2020
29
it's immature to allow Nixon, W Bush and Trump to get into office...
Dec 19th 2020
31
No it's not
Dec 19th 2020
32
abolition, suffrage, and desegregation were progressive movements.
Dec 21st 2020
58
      How are you defining "progressive"? Current or 1800s definition?
Dec 21st 2020
68
           Progressive as in "progressing towards a more humane efficient society"
Dec 22nd 2020
87
ehh, most Black voters are church going moderates
Dec 20th 2020
50
These fringe types Will pivot to Kamala next
Dec 20th 2020
39
Absolutely. They already are and have been for a while. They
Dec 20th 2020
45
Lol Kamala never been popular with Black folks
Dec 20th 2020
51
Every black person that disagrees with you is "fringe"
Dec 21st 2020
59
      election results determine this. not me lol
Dec 22nd 2020
75
Loaded questions
Dec 21st 2020
53
Good to see the kids are paying attention.
Dec 21st 2020
55
I think a lot of yall politics are vastly out of touch with most black p...
Dec 21st 2020
61
Posts #15, #21, #26 are still waiting on your insight, sir.
Dec 21st 2020
65
I addressed with #5. Yall aren't trying to have a serious discussion
Dec 21st 2020
73
      I dont care about opinions. These are facts.
Dec 22nd 2020
90
that's precisely the problem.
Dec 21st 2020
67
RE: that's precisely the problem.
Dec 21st 2020
72
      Black people were assured that Bernie was secretly racist.
Dec 22nd 2020
76
           by a lot of bad actors.
Dec 22nd 2020
81
this is frustrating.. and correct
Dec 22nd 2020
74
      How does one label the politics of people who are
Dec 22nd 2020
77
      Hm. I was going to ask whether Black Muslims' politics might be
Dec 22nd 2020
79
      OKP is Black neoliberalism, the website
Dec 22nd 2020
86
      call it what you want.. its not popular with the majority of Black voter...
Dec 22nd 2020
88
      see #67
Dec 22nd 2020
92
Still don't trust black men w/o any facial hair
Dec 22nd 2020
80
I thought that too until my father in law
Dec 22nd 2020
82
I kind of don't mind when older men cross their legs like that tbh lol
Dec 22nd 2020
84
Lol! Fwiw, I have never seen an (almost) elder African man of that build...
Dec 22nd 2020
83
I feel attacked!
Dec 22nd 2020
91
You probably don’t know any black men over 70...
Dec 23rd 2020
97
Black progressivism and conservatism are based in suffering
Dec 22nd 2020
85
Good point. A lot of politics is reactive and not proactive
Dec 22nd 2020
89
the black voteps, ironically often have the worst politics
Dec 23rd 2020
95

MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Fri Dec-18-20 10:09 AM

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1. "Is he saying anything Coates hasn't?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Dr Claw
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Sat Dec-19-20 02:24 AM

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24. "^^^^"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Fri Dec-18-20 10:10 AM

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2. "but....you're playing into it as planned...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri Dec-18-20 10:14 AM

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3. "you're giving him way more attention than he deserves"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Fri Dec-18-20 10:45 AM

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6. "^^^^^ "
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6778 posts
Fri Dec-18-20 10:37 AM

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4. "Obama put his conservatism before his blackness. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Why are you so eager to get left behind og.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Fri Dec-18-20 10:43 AM

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5. "And criticizing an elected official is not the same as...this"
In response to Reply # 4


          

>>This reminds me talking to my nieces and nephews and they got a lot to say about choices we made ("Why would you work for someone else?") and I literally got t-shirts older then them. All I can say is, you gonna learn.


He said himself he's not black america's president, called BLM protestors thugs, left Flint Michigan out to die while taunting them with a fake sip of water, but not fucking with him is "putting progressiveness before blackness?"

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Dec-18-20 01:17 PM

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12. "^This man said BHO taunted Flint People by drinking water. "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Yeah no, I can't go back and forth with that.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5613 posts
Fri Dec-18-20 01:25 PM

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15. "His water drinking stunt was pretty bad. Hope you're not defending it"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Fri Dec-18-20 03:56 PM

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21. "He...*pretended to* drink their contaminated water."
In response to Reply # 12


          

Then proceeded to do nothing about it.

Theyre still dealing with the water crisis to this day. 6 years.


How long did it take you to make such a poor deflection?

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Sat Dec-19-20 06:50 AM

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26. "They said the water was safe, then had O take a fake sip..."
In response to Reply # 12


          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZynkD3N_k


Even admitted it was FILTERED tap water and he still ain't drink it.

  

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lsymone
Member since Nov 03rd 2007
7401 posts
Fri Dec-18-20 10:57 AM

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7. "what blackness?"
In response to Reply # 4


          

cuz it damn sure wasnt from his father who he met once at 10 years old.

definitely wasnt from his white side: mom, meemaw and pawpaw who primarily raised him w/ a conservative mindset, on top of that he's a child of an immigrant who probably saw black americans in the 70s/80s as lazy.

take a message

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Fri Dec-18-20 11:47 AM

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8. "True."
In response to Reply # 7


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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shygurl
Member since Oct 08th 2002
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Sat Dec-19-20 04:56 PM

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35. "We defining other people's blackness now?"
In response to Reply # 7


          

I mean if there is anybody who's blackness need never be questioned, it's the person who spent 8 years being demeaned and disrespected under the weight of his skin color.

You may not like him as a person, but we should never argue that he's anything less than black.

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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Sun Dec-20-20 12:36 PM

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44. "Yeah that was absurd. Unless u pass for White you will have a Black "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

Experience in this country, if you are Black. It may not be like yours or mine but all Black experiences are not the same anyway

The hate for Obama is quite....interesting. I get disappointment but the out right hate from certain Black folks and lefties is jarring...and weird

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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Brotha Sun
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Mon Dec-21-20 11:27 AM

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56. "I dont gauge blackness on whether white people are mean or not."
In response to Reply # 35


          

Relying on white people to define us is weird.

Obama's blackness is barely hanging on a string culturally and genetically, but POLITICALLY he is about as anti-black as they come.



"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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Mon Dec-21-20 12:35 PM

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62. "Absurd. It’s some crazy ass muthafuccas that’s post here. "
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

I mean I knew that. But damn lol

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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shygurl
Member since Oct 08th 2002
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Mon Dec-21-20 03:09 PM

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69. "absurd and disheartening. "
In response to Reply # 62
Mon Dec-21-20 03:13 PM by shygurl

          

Now, we need a litmus test to verify blackness? If your ideologies don't follow certain guidelines, you can't claim to be black anymore?

The man has a black (biological) parent, and he calls himself black. He's black. Period. Anything else is superfluous, and it's beyond fucked up and disgusting to use the oppressor's divisive tactics on our own fucking people. Smfh

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Mon Dec-21-20 05:16 PM

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71. "Fine. He's black, and his administration was anti-black. "
In response to Reply # 69


          

Now where do we go from here?

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Brotha Sun
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Mon Dec-21-20 05:14 PM

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70. "^attacking people instead of ideas"
In response to Reply # 62


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Tue Dec-22-20 04:30 PM

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93. "^^^^"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

>but POLITICALLY he is about as anti-black as they come.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Wed Dec-23-20 11:39 AM

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94. "yup."
In response to Reply # 56


          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Fri Dec-18-20 12:04 PM

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9. "I wonder if he will make money or did he wait too long to jump.."
In response to Reply # 0


          

on the Obama hater wagon?

Its prolly time to start the Kamala bashing if you want those 2021 dollars

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Dec-18-20 01:19 PM

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14. "Don't be swayed by the loud and angry folks online. "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

They don't represent the views of most black folks.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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tariqhu
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Fri Dec-18-20 12:30 PM

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10. "being first won't be all that impressive to younger folks."
In response to Reply # 0


          

it kinda normal for them. normal from the short-sided perspective of dude was like 7-8 when Obama got in. he'll value it more later. we'll all value it more if Obama isn't the last/only one.

being first also didn't have much to do with how policies were implemented. democrats tend to be centrist. hoping for incremental change.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Fri Dec-18-20 12:55 PM

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11. "Lol this is 8 YEARS LATE I didn't even vote for Obama 2nd term"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and held my breath on the first term with how he handled the Rev Wright situation.

Homie danced and wagged his finger at Black folks while undermining anything faulty foundation we had and giving police more rights, giving big banks more money and destabilizing African nations while drone bombing African people.

FOH.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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lsymone
Member since Nov 03rd 2007
7401 posts
Fri Dec-18-20 01:17 PM

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13. "Obama's blackness"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/Bakari_Sellers/status/1339981571806392321


take a message

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri Dec-18-20 01:38 PM

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16. "I stopped at "20 years old""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

not that I don't think young people are relevant, but I'm not sure why i should care what a 20 year old who thinks its important for everyone to hear what he's all that impressed with is all that impressed with

20 year olds being know-it-alls are nothing new of course

  

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ThaTruth
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18. "basically..."
In response to Reply # 16


          

>not that I don't think young people are relevant, but I'm not
>sure why i should care what a 20 year old who thinks its
>important for everyone to hear what he's all that impressed
>with is all that impressed with
>
>20 year olds being know-it-alls are nothing new of course

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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falafel stand pimpin
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20. "Prodigy wrote shook ones at 19"
In response to Reply # 16


          

  

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thegodcam
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96. "No matter how much loot I get I'm stayin in the projects, forever...."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Brotha Sun
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22. "^Attacking people instead of ideas."
In response to Reply # 16


          

Is the young brother wrong or not? Quickly.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Mynoriti
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23. ""attacking" lol"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

  

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Brotha Sun
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27. "Answer the question"
In response to Reply # 23


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Mynoriti
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30. "what part of i stopped did you not understand"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

  

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Brotha Sun
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57. "^Proudly uninformed and opinionated."
In response to Reply # 30


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Mynoriti
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60. "i didn't read an op-ed about a 20 year old is impressed with"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

omg the ignorance

  

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Brotha Sun
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63. "https://googlethatforyou.com?q=fred%20hampton"
In response to Reply # 60


          

https://googlethatforyou.com?q=fred%20hampton

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Mynoriti
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64. "the op-ed kid is the new Fred Hampton?"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

  

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Brotha Sun
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66. "Ok. You're one of those types. Master deflector. Nvm."
In response to Reply # 64


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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17. "I'm young(ish), black, and VERY impressed with Obama"
In response to Reply # 0


          

That doesn't mean that I agree with everything he's done or said. Impressed doesn't mean you agree with them. It means that they've done stuff worthy of admiration.

But gah damn...if you can't look at his life thus far and all he's accomplished and not be impressed, who does impress you?



  

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Hitokiri
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19. "I'm failing to see where he said anything that was incorrect"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and FOH with that "progressiveness before blackness" bullshit unless you're also gonna say that Obama put his centrism before his blackness.

And I can't stand an ol nigga ass "young people's opinions don't matter" stance anyway.
Young people been the vanguard for change since forever.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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Dr Claw
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25. "ironically, Obama does a whole lot of this nowadays:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>you can always make a name for yourself in this country if you are
>black and sh*t on other black people in white media.

and by this I mean, in the last few weeks.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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c71
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28. "People want left-wing people to have standards for socialism and a "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

critical nature because that leads to Nader voting and Bernie or bust-ing and Republicans winning.

That's all that does.

That's how Nixon, W Bush and Trump got elected.


Left-wing people love being critical but then, what do you know? All of the sudden Nixon being in office ain't so bad because that will lead to some sort of left-wing movement for complete success (did it?)


Trump being in office ain't so bad because...

  

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Lurkmode
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33. "What ?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Left wing criticism got Nixon and W Bush elected ?

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c71
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34. "RE: What ?"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

>Left wing criticism got Nixon and W Bush elected ?



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/vietnam-hubert-humphrey.html


Humphrey’s support for the war condemned him in history as a supporting player in the tragedy of Vietnam. The war alienated Humphrey from liberals, civil rights activists and young Americans — the same people who, for decades, had loved Humphrey for his support of racial justice, full employment and the labor movement — and ultimately cost him the presidency in 1968. Voters thought Humphrey meant continued war, while Richard Nixon promised “an honorable end to the war in Vietnam.”


https://www.vox.com/2016/9/21/12987108/sanders-clinton-nixon-humphrey

The lousy reason I didn't vote in 1968 — and why Sanders supporters shouldn't fall for it

I thought there was no difference between Richard Nixon and Hubert Humphrey. I was wrong.


By Michael Ansara Sep 21, 2016, 8:00am EDT


Now the leading candidate on the Democratic side is the feckless Hubert Humphrey, once the tiger of liberals, once the "happy warrior," now the soulless candidate of the establishment.

We have nothing but contempt for him.

Those of us in the student antiwar movement see Humphrey as profoundly corrupt, profoundly tainted by his support for the war. We hate Nixon, but in truth we have not experienced what a right-wing government can do. We have come of age and to activism in the years since 1960 — so we only know Kennedy and Johnson as presidents, we have only experienced a liberal domination of national politics, and, more often than not, the policies we are protesting are the policies of liberal Democrats.

In the fall of 1968, we experience a great failure of political imagination.

We think it doesn’t matter if Nixon or Humphrey wins.


We have no idea the damage that will be done.

We do not say, "Make history. Swing this election to Humphrey and show how powerful we as a group now are." No, we say, "A plague on both your houses," and walk away.


Nixon wins. Without knowing it, we have missed our moment.







(Please don't make me have to dig up the many opinion pieces that lefties said they regretted believing Nader's CRITICISM OF AL GORE THAT GORE WAS NO DIFFERENT THAN BUSH)


that is "criticism" that leads to Nixon and W Bush winning.

  

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Lurkmode
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36. "Nah"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

Nixon got in based on more then the "left" turned on Humphrey. The Southern Strategy took him down.

>
>
>
>(Please don't make me have to dig up the many opinion pieces
>that lefties said they regretted believing Nader's CRITICISM
>OF AL GORE THAT GORE WAS NO DIFFERENT THAN BUSH)
>
>
>that is "criticism" that leads to Nixon and W Bush winning.

"Opinion pieces" are not good enough, if you are going to say the left helped Nixion, W and Trump win. Does that mean opinion pieces from the right about the "radical left socialist Dem's are vaild ? Are you going to add David Horowitz to your opinion piece list of valid criticism ?

Gore lost because Republicans stole it and SCOTOUS helped.

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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37. "Gore lost because thousands of Nader voters in Florida didn't vote for"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

him.

  

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Lurkmode
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38. "Nah again"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          


Voter roll purge, SCOUTUS, Dem's voting Repub...etc

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c71
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40. "There were thousands of lefties who voted for Nader in Florida in 2000"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

Nah all you want

  

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Lurkmode
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41. "Still nah"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

Gore lost his home state. White women in FL broke for Bush. A large number of Dem's voted for Bush.

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c71
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42. "You're running all over the place to try to escape the fact that those"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

Nader votes would have surpassed the votes needed in Florida for a Gore win in Florida.

Stop running and face it

  

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Lurkmode
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43. "Another nah"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

>Nader votes would have surpassed the votes needed in Florida
>for a Gore win in Florida.
>
>Stop running and face it

Repub's win every time they flip Dem's

Regan Democrats

The blue wall crumbling when Hillary lost

That's why W went on Oprah and pushed the "compassionate conservative" lie and that's why Trump lied about the suburbs.


Dem's votes for Bush would have surpassed the votes needed for FL

Nader ran against Obama, what happen ? How did Obama win ?

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c71
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46. "Obama won like Carter won like Biden won"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

Because lefties regretted what they did and came back.


That's why it's dumb to keep leaving

Bernie or bust-ing is dumb

  

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Lurkmode
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47. "Carter only won once"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

>Because lefties regretted what they did and came back.
>
>
>That's why it's dumb to keep leaving
>
>Bernie or bust-ing is dumb


So they stop regretting what they did when Reagan won and won again and his vp won. Then they regretted what they did two times for Clinton and stopped when W won. When lefties leave and come back, even if they vote for Reagan and both of the Bushes plus Trump and Nixon, they are really voting for Nader and Bernie.

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c71
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48. "Trump .... they are really voting for.....Bernie."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

2016

  

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Lurkmode
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49. "No"
In response to Reply # 48
Sun Dec-20-20 04:38 PM by Lurkmode

  

          

"large scale voter fraud happening" -Trump 2016

"It's rigged" GE 2020 - Trump


"Ted Cruz didn't win Iowa, he stole it" Iowa Caucus 2016 - Trump again

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c71
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52. ""progressives were too shell shocked over Trump to protest over Biden""
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

“Voters were too snakebitten last time to do it again,”


....."to do it again,"


ahh....that thing progressives been doin' since '68 with Nixon.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/tens-of-thousands-left-the-president-option-blank-though-undervotes-were-down-from-2016/ar-BB1aVcP5?tblci=GiBq5U_I3_o4fL291TKfiVdInNPu2QmJS7ukVMyxwTX4_CCC-00+%22+target%3d%22_blank%22%3eRead+the+Article


USA TODAY

Tens of thousands left the president option blank, though 'undervotes' were down from 2016

Josh Salman, Matt Wynn and Dinah Voyles Pulver, USA TODAY

11/11/2020


In 2016, the undervotes could have changed the outcome in both Michigan and Nevada.

It's impossible to pinpoint who the reduction in undervotes between the two elections favored this year. Experts say the decline of third-party ballots likely helped Biden, especially in Rust Belt states.

Undervotes generally signal voter apathy, which was not the case this year as turnout exceeded all records.


Democrats also had a hand in the nationwide undervote in 2016’s presidential election, with many supporters of Sanders bitter over the Democratic National Committee’s support of Clinton that year opting out.

This year, political experts say progressives were too shell shocked over Trump to protest over Biden, who polls show is generally is better-liked by the electorate than Clinton.

“Voters were too snakebitten last time to do it again,” said Todd Belt, a political management professor at The George Washington University. “It looks like the Democrats learned their lesson.”




The Snake bite

ahem



https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/wall-street-2016-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-213931

Why Some of the Smartest Progressives I Know Will Vote for Trump over Hillary

Even on Wall Street, a powerful Sanders contingent so hates what Clinton stands for—the status quo—they’ll pull the lever for almost anyone else.

By YVES SMITH June 01, 2016



Why do progressives reject Hillary Clinton? The highly educated, high-income, finance-literate readers of my website, Naked Capitalism, don’t just overwhelmingly favor Bernie Sanders. They also say “Hell no!” to Hillary Clinton to the degree that many say they would even vote for Donald Trump over her.

And they don’t come by these views casually. Their conclusions are the result of careful study of her record and her policy proposals. They believe the country can no longer endure the status quo that Clinton represents—one of crushing inequality, and an economy that is literally killing off the less fortunate—and any change will be better. One reader writes:

“If Clinton is the nominee 9 out of 10 friends I polled will :

A. Not vote for president in November.
B. Vote for Trump.
C. Write in Bernie as a protest vote.

"We are all fifty-somethings with money and college educations. Oh, and we are all registered Democrats.”

Or as another reader puts it:

“I don’t want to vote for Trump. I want to vote for Bernie. But I have reached the point where I feel like voting for Trump against Clinton would be doing my patriotic duty. … If the only way to escape a trap is to gnaw off my leg, I’d like to think I’d have the guts to do it.”

To be sure, not all of my Sanders-supporting readers would vote for Trump. But only a minority would ever vote for Clinton, and I'd guess that a lot of them would just stay home if she were the nominee. Many of my readers tend to be very progressive, and they have been driven even further in that direction by their sophisticated understanding of the inequities of Wall Street, especially in the run-up to and the aftermath of the financial crisis, when no senior executives went to jail, the biggest banks got bigger, and Hillary paid homage to Goldman Sachs. True progressives, as opposed to the Vichy Left, recognize that the Clintons only helped these inequities along. They recognize that, both in the 1990s and now, the Clintons do not and have never represented them. They believe the most powerful move they can take to foster change is to withhold their support.

Some of them also have very reasoned arguments for Trump. Hillary is a known evil. Trump is unknown. They'd rather bet on the unknown, since it will also send a big message to Team Dem that they can no longer abuse progressives. I personally know women in the demographic that is viewed as being solidly behind Hillary—older, professional women who live in major cities—who regard Trump as an acceptable cost of getting rid of the Clintons.

  

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Lurkmode
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54. "Some more nah and no"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

>“Voters were too snakebitten last time to do it again,”
>

They did it three times after Carter.

>....."to do it again,"
>
>
>ahh....that thing progressives been doin' since '68 with
>Nixon.
>

That thing where they only stopped once and then came home for Carter only to leave and stay away three times. Yeah that explains it.

>https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/tens-of-thousands-left-the-president-option-blank-though-undervotes-were-down-from-2016/ar-BB1aVcP5?tblci=GiBq5U_I3_o4fL291TKfiVdInNPu2QmJS7ukVMyxwTX4_CCC-00+%22+target%3d%22_blank%22%3eRead+the+Article
>
>
>USA TODAY
>
>Tens of thousands left the president option blank, though
>'undervotes' were down from 2016
>

https://www.propublica.org/article/election-2016-gets-a-report-card

Election 2016 Gets a Report Card
A report out today by the MIT Election Lab finds signs of progress and evidence of protest.

"The report, called the Election Performance Index, also found evidence of a large group of voters who cast a protest vote in 2016."

"A large number of Americans, perhaps a million or more, handed in incomplete ballots in the 2016 election, leaving their choice for president blank. This sizable protest vote, invisible to election observers, was detected by one of the EPI’s statistics called the “residual vote rate."

The rate was meant to detect problems with ballots themselves. However, experts think the increase in the rate for 2016 is an indication of something else. The upward trend, they say, amounts to voters abstaining from voting for president — “more specifically, abstention among Republicans,” says a paper published earlier this year."

"Based on their research and collection of opinion polls, Stewart et al. say this phenomenon was more widespread among Republicans reluctant to vote for Donald Trump."

>
>
>The Snake bite
>
>ahem
>

(cough cough) snake bitten progressives that are Republican ? Yeah that works.

>
>https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/wall-street-2016-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-213931
>
>Why Some of the Smartest Progressives I Know Will Vote for
>Trump over Hillary
>
>Even on Wall Street, a powerful Sanders contingent so hates
>what Clinton stands for—the status quo—they’ll pull the
>lever for almost anyone else.
>

They Voted Democratic. Now They Support Trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/26/upshot/democratic-trump-voters-2020.html


"Midterm victories in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin gave Democrats hope of retaking the Rust Belt battleground states that handed the presidency to Donald J. Trump in 2016.

Yet success in the midterms might not mean as much for Democratic presidential candidates as the party might think. Nearly two-thirds of voters in six battleground states who voted for President Trump in 2016 — but for Democratic congressional candidates in 2018 — say they intend to back the president against each of his top rivals, according to recent polling by The New York Times Upshot/Siena College."

"Many of the white working-class voters in the Rust Belt who supported the president in 2016 were traditionally Democratic voters who backed President Obama in 2012 and even continued to vote Democratic down-ballot in 2016. Democrats generally held on to these voters in 2018, but the reasons many of them voted for Mr. Trump, like his promises on immigration or the economy, could still be relevant."

"In the survey, 7 percent of those who supported Mrs. Clinton in 2016 said they now approved of the president’s performance — despite his personality and his Twitter account, many said."

In 2016, I hated both” candidates, said Juli Anna California, 57, a nurse from Coral Springs, Fla. “I went with Hillary because Trump had no history as a politician.”

Mr. Trump has convinced her, though — not with his character, but with his policies.

“He’s not exactly the person I’d have as my best friend,” said Ms. California, who currently lives in Los Angeles as a traveling nurse. “But he’s a great president. Most politicians just talk about doing things, but Trump does them.”

Scott Will, 51, an equipment operator in Ligonier, Pa., also voted for Mrs. Clinton in 2016, and will vote for Mr. Trump next year. So will much of his family, union workers who had been “die-hard Democrats.” Mr. Will, who started college but left to get married before graduating, credits Mr. Trump’s trade deals and pledge to bring jobs back to the United States.






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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Dec-22-20 09:25 AM

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78. "Gore lost because thousands of voters in Florida didn't vote for him."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Isn’t that how elections work?

If we forego the debate about W stealing FL with an assist from the SC

One of the more annoying tropes in recent elections...is this automatic assumption that your preferred candidate gets votes that went to another candidate...if only that other candidate didn’t run

That’s not how this works

You know good and well if Gore leaned in to Nader voters, he would have lost some of his centrist base

Same with HRC

Stop this bull$hit.



---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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afrogirl_lost
Member since May 22nd 2012
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Sat Dec-19-20 11:57 AM

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29. "Please...I'm 20 years older than this kid and I agree with him"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Being a progressive is apart of the Black identity. What you're saying makes no sense.

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
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31. "it's immature to allow Nixon, W Bush and Trump to get into office..."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

...because mainstream Dems aren't socialistic enough

that makes sense

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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32. "No it's not"
In response to Reply # 29


          

>Being a progressive is apart of the Black identity.


  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Mon Dec-21-20 11:33 AM

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58. "abolition, suffrage, and desegregation were progressive movements."
In response to Reply # 32


          

This current iteration of middle class moderate blacks is a product of manufactured consent. A lot of us are afraid to demand more. Polls show most of us support progressive policies but politicians dont.


"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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68. "How are you defining "progressive"? Current or 1800s definition?"
In response to Reply # 58


          

If you define it is "abolition, suffrage, and desegregation", then yeah black folks tended to coalesce towards the same position on those issues (for obvious reasons).

But on other issues commonly seen as progressive, there is diversity of thought among black folks. It's actually insulting to put us in a box like that.




Black Democrats less likely to describe their political views as ‘liberal’.
29% of black Democrats describe their views as liberal vs 55% of white Democrats.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/27/5-facts-about-black-democrats/ft_20-02-26_factsblackvoters_01/



Black Americans Are Divided Over Their Comfort With Socialism.
33% of black Democratic primary voters under the age of 45 say the country should move away from capitalism and toward socialism; 13% of those voters 45 and up agree.

https://morningconsult.com/2020/02/28/black-voters-democratic-primary-socialism-capitalism-bernie-sanders/


Black Democrats prefer public option more than Medicare for All. Moreso than other Democrats

"Our CNN poll indicates that the public option is even more popular among black Democrats than it is among Democrats overall. A clear majority, 58%, of black Democrats and Democratic leaning independents want the public option. A mere 23% prefer Medicare for All."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/27/politics/medicare-for-all-vs-public-option-black-democrats/index.html

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Tue Dec-22-20 11:03 AM

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87. "Progressive as in "progressing towards a more humane efficient society""
In response to Reply # 68


          

Progressive as in not wanting a country where politicians are doubling their net worths off the dime of the taxpayer while the poverty and mortality rate is skyrocketing.


A lot of black people settled for crumbs of the pie because they dont believe better is possible. Those types always existed and they always will.

I understand, like all people, black people exist all over the spectrum when it comes to political identities.

I also understand that behind those political identities is a lot of common ground that people have a hard time processing because they get too caught in the hype of labels.

Black people are not a monolith, obviously, but we are still the most left leaning demographic.

There's a reason black voters raised more money for Sanders campaign than any other dem candidate.

Theres also a reason why corporate media like MSNBC and CNN go out of their way to demonize terms like "progressive" and "socialism."

Easiest way to turn a state blue is to either get black, or young voters involved.

Ask yourself why.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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50. "ehh, most Black voters are church going moderates"
In response to Reply # 29


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Sun Dec-20-20 09:29 AM

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39. "These fringe types Will pivot to Kamala next "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If they haven’t already.

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Sun Dec-20-20 12:39 PM

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45. "Absolutely. They already are and have been for a while. They "
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Abandoned tulsi en masse now but were all cheering when she “took down” kamala in that debate

No ones ever Black enough or progressive enough for certain types

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Sun Dec-20-20 09:52 PM

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51. "Lol Kamala never been popular with Black folks"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

what rock are yall under?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Mon Dec-21-20 11:34 AM

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59. "Every black person that disagrees with you is "fringe""
In response to Reply # 39


          

Kamala lost in her own state to YANG and had to dropout. Fuck outta here Jindal.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Tue Dec-22-20 08:14 AM

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75. "election results determine this. not me lol "
In response to Reply # 59


  

          



since we're talking about how folks did in the primary and cherry picking states, lets talk about how your Vermont Jesus did in key states like Michigan?



This election just showed you what is fringe. and most importantly what isn't

  

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jimaveli
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Mon Dec-21-20 09:46 AM

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53. "Loaded questions"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Dec-21-20 09:50 AM by jimaveli

  

          

What would actual socialism in America look like? And is this what the furthest far left actually want?

Is anyone ever going to be good enough for the most heavy-handed conservatives or progressives?

Will anyone in major federal politics ever get away with being openly moderate? Or will they forever have to pretend to be one way or another before being a moderate when it counts and then trying to mend fences later if they think it matters enough.

Am I asking the wrong questions if my aim is to get to the bottom of understanding what the average person in each of these political buckets actually wants from folks in office? I ask because I deal with this a lot in my work...a lot of folks swear that ‘management’ at my gig is so horrible and they can never do enough but if you press someone for non-fairy tale solutions or even a ‘well, what does right look like?’, stuttering and ‘I don’t know really but it’s not for me to figure out’ and other non-committal/peanut gallery non answers cometh.

>This is another example of what I call putting your
>progressiveness before your blackness.
>
>This will go viral and the kid will get some shine because you
>can always make a name for yourself in this country if you are
>black and sh*t on other black people in white media.
>
>This reminds me talking to my nieces and nephews and they got
>a lot to say about choices we made ("Why would you work for
>someone else?") and I literally got t-shirts older then them.
>All I can say is, you gonna learn.
>
>My first question to this kid would be, who are you impressed
>with if you aren't impressed with the first Black President?
>
>Update Edit: What's interesting I was prepared to read this
>and thought it would be an "Obama is a War Criminal" type
>article which I hate but I hate less because its base on
>policy and their is credence to it but this opinion is based
>on, saying "Defund the Police" hurt certain campaigns? And his
>conversations with LeBron? SMH.
>
>https://news.yahoo.com/m-young-black-not-impressed-230538303.html
>
>‘I’m young, Black and not all that impressed with Barack
>Obama’ | Opinion
>Malik Pitchford
>Tue, December 15, 2020, 6:05 PM EST
>
>
>
>Barack Obama has spent the past several months promoting his
>political memoir, “A Promised Land.” But the former
>president’s messaging is out of touch, tone-deaf and
>indicative of his personal and class interests.
>
>I’m Black and 20 years old. I wasn’t able to vote in
>either of Obama’s presidential races, but I can see his
>appeal today. In his television, radio and online appearances,
>Obama exudes presidential charm, while pushing narratives of
>respectability. This is unlike the ideals of “hope,”
>“change” and “progress” that he ran on in 2008.
>
>But let’s not forget how Obama chastised former NFL
>quarterback Colin Kaepernick for the “pain” he caused
>others in taking a knee during the national anthem. And, more
>recently, the NBA rejoiced when Obama urged the Milwaukee
>Bucks to call off their strike protesting the Jacob Blake
>shooting.
>
>- ADVERTISEMENT -
>
>Obama also showed how out-of-touch he is with young
>progressives in a Dec. 2 Snapchat interview. “Socialism is
>still a loaded term for some folks,” he clucked. “We
>should focus on talking about getting certain things done.”
>
>The truth is, among young American adults, socialism is as
>popular an ideology as free-market capitalism, according to a
>2019 Gallup poll. Maybe labels and ideology aren’t all that
>important. After all, voters in Florida — which went for
>Donald Trump — supported raising the state’s minimum wage
>to $15, an issue President-elect Joe Biden ran on.
>
>In Obama’s recent Breakfast Club appearance, host
>Charlamagne tha God read an excerpt from “A Promised
>Land.” He asked if Obama felt it was still necessary, still,
>to soften “blunt truths” about racism in America, for
>white people’s benefit. Obama didn’t answer directly.
>
>Instead, mentioning polling after the murder of George Floyd,
>Obama said, “Many more white Americans were willing to
>acknowledge problems in the criminal-justice system based on
>race.” He said Black people need to build “coalitions”
>to win votes, and, “as a consequence,” must “pay
>attention to how other folks are feeling.”
>
>Obama has often lectured others against “snappy slogans”
>like “defund the police,” arising in response to decades
>of anti-Black policing. He’s told Black communities that he
>does not like our tone in how we call for safe communities —
>via divesting from policing and investing in Black communities
>— because it isn’t marketable to others.
>
>While polling does show that support for defunding the police
>is low, but polling does not accurately measure opinions on
>the Black Lives Matter movement’s concrete goals.
>Regardless, calls to “defund the police” were never
>supposed to be a political line for Democrats to run on. Yet,
>Democrats increased their voter registration in light of BLM
>protests.
>
>It’s clear Obama and Democrats don’t want to jeopardize
>white suburban and rural support. This year, Democrats
>performed better with both white men (with and without
>degrees), and college-graduate white women, compared to 2016.
>
>And though Democrats took white voters from Trump, it was at
>the expense of voters of color, including Black people. With
>the exception of a handful of battleground states, the
>Democrats underperformed in Black, Latinx and Asian
>communities throughout the country.
>
>Obama’s book tour is just that, a book tour. Treating him as
>a thought leader for young people, or as the last “cool”
>president, is incorrect. His politics have always been that of
>a cautious centrist. His support for reforming broken systems,
>rather than the “Yes we can” attitude he fostered in 2008,
>makes him an inspiration best left in the past.
>
>Malik Pitchford is a journalist and student at DePaul
>University in Chicago, where he studies political science and
>the African and Black diaspora.
>
>©2020 Tribune Content Agency
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Mon Dec-21-20 10:34 AM

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55. "Good to see the kids are paying attention."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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61. "I think a lot of yall politics are vastly out of touch with most black p..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

1. I don't think Obama is above critique. He frustrated me at time by being an incrementalist when we could use major change. Now the counter-argument is that as a black President he wasn't in position to bring major change, but we will never know because he didn't try as much as a lot of think he could.

2. That being said, Obama's politics are more inlign with the majority of black people then what some of you all are talking about here. Most black people react negatively to phrases/words "defund the police" or "socialism" and even if you describe in more details the policies behind those words, still most black people are against the policies of abolishing the police or private healthcare.

3. Not to say black people aren't progressive, but its silly to try and sum up all of black people's political ideology with one word like "progressive". Not only do we as a people have a diverse range of political views, but individual black people have a wide range of opinions that some can be described as progressive and some described in conservative and everything in between.

4. So given that diversity of thought on the macro and individual level, yall sound like clowns questioning Obama's blackness because of his individual policy choices.

5. I wish some of yall would stop getting your information from short youtube clips. At least watch the whole interview or better yet, read. As much as has been written about what happened and what is happening in Flint, Michigan your opinion is shaped by Michael Moore? Hate to see it.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Mon Dec-21-20 12:48 PM

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65. "Posts #15, #21, #26 are still waiting on your insight, sir."
In response to Reply # 61


          

Most democrat AND republican voters support so called "progressive" policies (these would be considered moderate policies in most countries)

You're trying to frame this as people hating obama for not being progressive enough, that man was actively anti-black and continues to give us Bill Cosby lesque lectures. He constantly recycles talking points that would get a white person fucked up but we let it slide because....representation?


With all due respect, you're old and middle class, and very comfortable with how things are. You were defending Feinstein for blowing off the Green New Deal. That's your ideology, being the old mofo that sees a life or death situation such as climate change and police brutality and fights for incrementalism.


We aint judging you, most people on okp are very old, and middle class, but you gotta accept that you're out of touch. It happens to the best of us.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Dec-21-20 10:41 PM

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73. "I addressed with #5. Yall aren't trying to have a serious discussion "
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

around Obama's handling of Flint Drinking water by sharing a youtube clip of him drinking water. You can argue with someone else as to whether he actually sipped water or not. I think that's all nonsense. And to say he did nothing is just not factually correct.

Listen man I am not here to convince you that Barrack Obama is not Anti-Black. And even if you are unwilling to admit that it is an extremist frindge opinion, I am at least hoping you can acknowledge that this is an opinion not held by most black people.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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Tue Dec-22-20 12:25 PM

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90. "I dont care about opinions. These are facts. "
In response to Reply # 73


          

Facts:
Obama opposed occupy wall street

Obama called BLM protestors thugs

The flint water crisis and BLM started during Obama's administration. Still ongoing.

Obama passed the Blue Alert Bill

Obama sat with NBA players and they immediately ended their strike in support of BLM

Obama expanded military in Africa


Presented with no opinions attached. These things happened. dont be mad at me.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Mon Dec-21-20 02:36 PM

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67. "that's precisely the problem."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

>2. That being said, Obama's politics are more inlign with the
>majority of black people then what some of you all are talking
>about here. Most black people react negatively to
>phrases/words "defund the police" or "socialism" and even if
>you describe in more details the policies behind those words,
>still most black people are against the policies of abolishing
>the police or private healthcare.

Obama is the embodiment of the idea that "Black folks without the racism of the right wing would be conservative".

Obama makes a lot of this "conservatism" OK. There were a number of Black folks who thought Colin Powell should run for President. Obama is the "upgraded" version of that, IMO.

That's a problem, though.
Obama will say of Rev. Wright in this year that he was a "lightskin" who was stuck in the late '60s and would occasionally reach to something recent for "street cred". Textbook projection; this more adeptly describes Obama himself, rather than Wright, who resembles a LOT of Black Liberation Theology preachers -- something more in line with real Black politics IMO.

Obama is black, but he had to learn American Blackness in a way even those of us who grew up in Michael Jordan Approved areas or with one white parent did not. Hell, his experience is much more in line with nlack children who are adopted by non-black families.

As more time elapses, I'm coming to believe why that is significant. Much of his politics is actually outside of mainstream Black thought. We may not say "defund the police" all the time but we view the police with caution, with skepticism. And Obama can't even so much as say that much.

I bet if you sent the right people to sell "single payer healthcare" to Black people, it'd get real traction. John Conyers, a Black man representing Detroit in the U.S. House, had a single payer bill for years, which got buried in committee. Before "Medicare 4 All" was a catchphrase.

If OBAMA advocated for it, it would be done tomorrow.

There's a reason why people like Beto and Buttigieg are imitating Obama, but some of these newer Black politicians (the newest Black members of the U.S. House) are not quite going that route.

Obama's symbolism endures to a mostly older, Black audience. That's gonna look a lot different from late-Xers, Millennials and later generations.

Black people are much more progressive than Obama IMO, but they're not "allowed" to be in the public sphere. Obama could have been the one who made that "OK". instead, he wanted to reconcile "Middle America" with Black America in a way that yielded less to the latter than the former.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
13962 posts
Mon Dec-21-20 05:30 PM

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72. "RE: that's precisely the problem."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          



>Black people are much more progressive than Obama IMO, but
>they're not "allowed" to be in the public sphere.



Who didn't "allow" Black people to vote for Bernie in the Dem primary?


Because it is Black people who were credited for Biden's Dem primary win.


If Black people didn't go full progressive to get Bernie the primary win,...then....how progressive are Black people?

  

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Teknontheou
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Tue Dec-22-20 08:30 AM

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76. "Black people were assured that Bernie was secretly racist."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 09:48 AM

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81. "by a lot of bad actors."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

The motherfuckers who disingenuously said Bernie's talk about the "establishment" meant "Black voters", and that Bernie's voters talk about "neoliberals" meant the same.



though there were some bad actors inside his own camp, like consultant Jeff Weaver, who was basically in it for the money and little else.

In 2016, Bernie had a Black Outreach director who begged them to let surrogates go out to Black folks in a way that centered them rather than the usual BS.

Bernie also made unforced errors at times (like not leaning into the notion that the Trump vote was mostly motivated by racism, and not "economic anxiety").

Biden, of course, usurped this opportunity, not during the primary, but in the general, when he called Trump (rightfully) "racist". And now, he stands in front of a group of Black folks on a teleconference (that the Intercept leaked) shouting angrily and patting himself on the back for being "the only white boy" who said those things. Meanwhile, lecturing people about "defund the police" in that same call.

Obama does a lot of the same things as Biden. Really, the whole reason Biden is even a thing in the first place is because Obama.

Before Obama, Biden was some jabroni from the Credit Card state who hung out with segregationists and let King Coon Clarence walk right in to the Supreme Court.

and Obama made /that/ kind of Democratic politics OK for Black folks, by trusting him to be his VP.

You got people (let's just say, veterans of this site) out here copping pleas for Nancy Pelosi and Rahm Emanuel. Because Obama made that OK, too, for Black folks.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79594 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 12:39 AM

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74. "this is frustrating.. and correct"
In response to Reply # 61


          

but a lot of people on OKP live in progressive bubbles.

the reality is the majority of Black Dem voters are christian and conservative

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Dec-22-20 08:59 AM

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77. "How does one label the politics of people who are"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

Christian, believe in 2 parent households, don't know what to make of transgender issues but also believe in police reform (but don't want to abolish the police) and want to dismantle white supremacy in this country?

Those mix of beliefs will get you kicked out of a lot of progressive meetups.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 09:40 AM

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79. "Hm. I was going to ask whether Black Muslims' politics might be "
In response to Reply # 77
Tue Dec-22-20 09:48 AM by kfine

          

more progressive or less so than Black Christians, depending on the sect (eg. a Black American Ahmadi v. a naturalized Senegalese-American Sunni immigrant), considering Black people account for ~20% of all Muslims in the US...

But then I just saw that only 1% of *Black people* in the US are Muslim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Muslims , https://blackdemographics.com/culture/religion/). So I guess that wouldn't sway much lol.

I guess (younger) age is probably still the main factor that could predict whether some folks are more progressive than what you describe here (and perhaps young Black Muslims are more progressive than their older counterparts as well)...

It would be interesting to know on which issues they diverge from Black Christians too tho.


edit: And I suppose this just illustrates what you're saying in regards to how difficult it is to put Black politics in a neat little box. Black politics are complex dammit lol.


>Christian, believe in 2 parent households, don't know what to
>make of transgender issues but also believe in police reform
>(but don't want to abolish the police) and want to dismantle
>white supremacy in this country?
>
>Those mix of beliefs will get you kicked out of a lot of
>progressive meetups.
>
>

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 10:56 AM

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86. "OKP is Black neoliberalism, the website"
In response to Reply # 74


          

that's miles away from black progressivism.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79594 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 11:05 AM

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88. "call it what you want.. its not popular with the majority of Black voter..."
In response to Reply # 86


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 04:01 PM

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92. "see #67"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

Jesse Jackson, a Black-on-both-sides candidate for President in 1984 and 1988

had a platform way to the left of Obama. In fact, it resembled Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020, but even made some certain foreign policy matters more explicit.

and yet I don't think the majority of Black America would be mad at Jesse. Especially that group, since he comes directly from the Black church.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13573 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 09:41 AM

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80. "Still don't trust black men w/o any facial hair"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's not like he shaves it down every now and again. Bald face looks suspicious. It's been four years bruh.

Also, black men that sit like this: http://nairobiwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ob2.jpg


Might seem nitpicky, but it't not. Nonverbals say alot.

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
4667 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 09:58 AM

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82. "I thought that too until my father in law"
In response to Reply # 80
Tue Dec-22-20 09:59 AM by Mafamaticks

  

          

dude grew up in Rural Virginia back in the 40s, hunts and built churches with his bare hands.

I won't say a word about how a nigga sits after that

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 10:06 AM

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84. "I kind of don't mind when older men cross their legs like that tbh lol"
In response to Reply # 82


          


>
>I won't say a word about how a nigga sits after that

It's very comforting and professor-y

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 10:03 AM

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83. "Lol! Fwiw, I have never seen an (almost) elder African man of that build..."
In response to Reply # 80
Tue Dec-22-20 10:07 AM by kfine

          

and stature NOT sit like that. Shit might be innate. lol

I find they also start experimenting with some form of goatee in this golden year window too (usually pre-70 tho). I can think of like 3 uncles/family friends I saw growing up who followed this exact trajectory lol

Give him some time on the facial hair thing lol



>It's not like he shaves it down every now and again. Bald
>face looks suspicious. It's been four years bruh.
>
>Also, black men that sit like this:
>http://nairobiwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ob2.jpg
>
>
>Might seem nitpicky, but it't not. Nonverbals say alot.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49415 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 01:20 PM

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91. "I feel attacked!"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          


1. I had to learn On the facial hair. If I put up a pick with it and without it you will see it makes a 1000% difference.

2. That's the "Imma Boss Leg Cross".



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Dec-23-20 09:48 PM

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97. "You probably don’t know any black men over 70..."
In response to Reply # 80


          


>Also, black men that sit like this:
>http://nairobiwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ob2.jpg

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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CIPHA
Charter member
1010 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 10:43 AM

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85. "Black progressivism and conservatism are based in suffering"
In response to Reply # 0


          

so how do e reconcile that and come to a true understanding of what black politics should be?

This is why I'm not bothered by the "don't vote" crowd. We don't really have a political philosophy outside of trauma response, and that's not the best way to participate in politics.

_____________________________________

Let me guess, I can have "good day" now, right?

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6778 posts
Tue Dec-22-20 11:10 AM

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89. "Good point. A lot of politics is reactive and not proactive"
In response to Reply # 85


          

Thing is, black progressives and conservatives want the same thing but disagree about the route to get there.

Once you add layers like sexuality and gender it gets even more antagonistic.


A lot of ego death will have to happen before we reach full unity.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Wed Dec-23-20 12:49 PM

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95. "the black voteps, ironically often have the worst politics"
In response to Reply # 85
Wed Dec-23-20 12:52 PM by kayru99

          

Looking at the vote as the pinnacle of black politics is a big part of the problem

We've been in the dems pocket for so long, that we mistakenly believe that whatever they say is good for us.

Also, i don't know if "conservative" & "progressive" mean the same thing for black folks as they do for white folks.

Like you said, too much of black life is trauma and trauma response

  

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