Lazy post but wondering how many are thriving vs struggling in America.

Anyone leave and have no plans of returning?

Wife suggested Canada if Trump won but that place is too damn cold.

Poll result (16 votes) Hell yeah (9 votes) Vote yeah (1 votes) Vote nah (4 votes) Vote fuck no (2 votes) Vote

or are most people here really making over 70k per year(what it takes to be in top 10% statistically for Black men).

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

<--- Big Baller World Order

if you make 40K in NC and don’t have a lot of expenses you are still thriving and prolly doing better than someone making 70K in DC paying a high ass rent.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

a couple years ago at 25 making 40K in NC feeling good about myself then my friends in NYC/DC and other big cities making double or triple and STRESSED. it didn't really start to make sense until i started traveling more.

<--- Big Baller World Order

everyone in LA and Philly were talking about mortgages and rent in the 2K to 4K range and I’m like...

my mortgage is $900 with a 2 car garage and a front and back yard.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

LOL....
dammit...
I'ma just say this...
if we had our salary back home in NC ....... smh....
but..alas...we stuck here.....


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

if 70K is the top 10% then I’m in the top 11%.

and my wife is creeping behind me.

and we live in Charlotte and bought here before the market was red hot and just refinanced to a 10 year mortgage.

been a long time coming but I’m definitely thriving.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I took a paycut of 7k to come down from DC to San Antonio because of the cost of living difference.
I pay about 12k a year in student loans because I overpay

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

exhausting at times. My paid work involves fighting white supremacy and so does my non-paid work. It takes a toll mentally, but I'm invested in living here. I was able to travel frequently (pre-COVID), so that helped a lot.

_____________________________________

Let me guess, I can have "good day" now, right?

in the recycling bin

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

<--- Big Baller World Order

Continental America - Pros- Easiest place to make money, buy a house, give kids a solid education and get mid level health care.
Cons- Bad for mental health, weight gain, racism and unregulated consumption/spending/materialism.

Caribbean- Pros- Best place to relax, eat healthy, build friendships and care for mental health. Cons- Monotonous, insular, lack of options for activities beyond tourism and intellectually stale.

Europe- Pros- Great for race neutral identity, meeting people from around the world and intellectual stimulation. Cons- Weather is horrible. European culture is dry and bland, Food is horrible tasting.

Africa- Great for deep spiritual, family friendship soul connection to people. Simple life, depending on the country visually breathtaking. Cons- Health & Saftey vulnerabilities are a real thing, bribery/trust issues, classicism if you are not among educated elite.

Central America- Pros- Closest thing to me of a good balance for black people. Racially diverse, cheap, not much racism compared to US. Easy access to American style comforts. Cons- Language barrier, cultural nuances related gender, very and unpologigetically classiscist.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

I think people underestimate the role class plays in all these other countries.

OR I think we realize that there are a lot of places we can go and be winning in a more class driven country. For example, I've watched quite a few youtube videos of brothers moving to Columbia or other South American countries and ball out on government salaries and pensions.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

It is a strange blend of conscious black mixed with capitalist black. I think this is a good thing and the more people with the courage to step out of America and identify a new place, the better.

Black Americans could potentially co exist in another country if we pooled enough resources and language skills. I think Wakanda exists but we have to build it.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

>I think this is a good thing and the more
>people with the courage to step out of America and identify a
>new place, the better.

If (Black Americans) can make it happen abroad, why can't they make changes in their home (country)? (c)

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13415650&mesg_id=13415650&page=#13415751

^see how this type of question oversimplifies things?

And why is it "courageous" if Black Americans step outside their country in hopes of bettering their situation, but not if continental Africans do so?

>
>Black Americans could potentially co exist in another country
>if we pooled enough resources and language skills. I think
>Wakanda exists but we have to build it.

When you say coexist (abroad), do you mean just with each other? Or are you speaking to Black Americans' capacity to work with the other groups in said country?

Hoping it's not the former since, as you know, Black Americans already did the neo-colonial thing with Liberia and that didn't go well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Liberia#Americo-Liberian_and_indigenous_segregation_(1847–1940)

"Although they never constituted more than 5% of the population of Liberia, the Americo-Liberians controlled key resources that allowed them to enslave the local native peoples. The Americo-Liberians controlled the native peoples’ access to the ocean, modern technical skills, literacy, higher levels of education, and valuable relationships with many of the United States’ institutions—including the American government.

Reflecting the system of segregation in the United States, the Americo-Liberians created a cultural and racial caste system, with themselves at the top and indigenous Liberians at the bottom. "

It is courageous for Black Americans because for now, America is the promise land in terms of economics, health, politics etc...

I never said it wasn't courageous for people of African descent of other countries to leave. I just said only a certain class are given access to first world success. In America, those who benefit, do so on the backs of Black Americans' struggle.

Liberia was an experiment and a very good one from which we can learn. Doesn't mean modern day neo-colonial blacks will repeat the mistakes of the past. But likely they will make mistakes like all burgeoning nations.

My statements don't contradict. Blacks from other countries get cherry picked to enter the US. I have personal experience working in orgs that hand select the best around the world to enter these countries.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

to another tho... (although you might if you can just casually endorse modern-day colonialism in 2020 like that's nbd lol)


>It is courageous for Black Americans because for now, America
>is the promise land in terms of economics, health, politics
>etc...
>

Well... like I just alluded to Buddy, for immigrants to the US I think American Exceptionalism is less of a draw than USD tbh... Meaning, a common interest linking all the various types of emigrants from Africa is they're essentially fleeing inflation. But on the question of being more courageous, if instead you'd be willing to admit Black Americans have unique *privilege* compared to Africans I'd actually agree with you there... But it has nothing to do with US health, economic, or political systems (and haven't the last few years exposed that America's systems share many of the vulnerabilities we see in Africa anyway lol?).

I think the privilege comes in because, as you already know given your extensive travels, as US passport holders Black Americans inherit the global access White Americans set up for themselves back when they were the predominant ones traveling abroad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henley_Passport_Index#2020_Henley_Passport_Index). So Black Americans are up there with citizens of the UK, Switzerland, Norway, and Belgium (and tbf their black citizens as well) for eased access to 185 countries. Which is yay for you. But in contrast, most African nationals don't enjoy anywhere close to that level of travel freedom. Meaning from jump its already an uphill battle (yes, even for so-called elites) to get approved just to visit talk more of study and/or work in the 100+ countries where one is basically unwelcome.

But ya, the courage to uproot one's life/family and permanently relocate to another area of the globe? That's just characteristic of international migrants in general imho *shrug* There wouldn't be anything inherently special about Black Americans expatriating more frequently (in global context anyway), and it def wouldn't give yall license to colonize another people (but you really just doubled down on that lol so hey, let's just agree to disagree).


>I never said it wasn't courageous for people of African
>descent of other countries to leave. I just said only a
>certain class are given access to first world success.
.
.
.
>My statements don't contradict. Blacks from other countries
>get cherry picked to enter the US. I have personal experience
>working in orgs that hand select the best around the world to
>enter these countries.


I think you're conflating the HR practices of *private organizations* with US gov immigration policy tho. I agree class plays a role, but you're exaggerating it and this grand red-carpet recruitment narrative just isn't factual I'm sorry.

For starters, it only really considers employment-based mechanisms whereas African nationals - and by extension African foreign workers in the US - are frequently admitted through humanitarian (refugees, asylees), academic/exchange visitor (students, fellows/residents, etc), and family sponsorship mechanisms. So that's a selection bias from jump (especially considering EB immigrants comprise only a little over 10% of foreign nationals who go on to receive green cards anyway https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R45447#page=11 ). There's all types of African foreign workers in the US, including the unauthorized.

But even beyond that, how does this alleged preferential treatment towards (elite) African nationals even work???


-Are there special visa categories reserved for skilled and/or wealthy investor African immigrants? No.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employment/temporary-worker-visas.html

-Do African nationals get awarded a significant proportion of H1-Bs (skilled immigrant visas)? No.
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/data/h-1b-petitions-by-gender-country-of-birth-fy2019.pdf
(^None even crack top 10)

-Are there lower visa refusal rates for African applicants? No.
https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY19.pdf
(^In fact, certain African nationals face some of the highest)

-Do African nationals make up a significant proportion of all immigrants? No.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/immigrants-countries-birth-over-time?width=1000&height=850&iframe=true
(^Even top African countries-of-origin, like Nigeria and Ethiopia, made up less than 1% each in 2018)

-Do African immigrants even make up the majority of BLACK immigrants? No!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/24/key-facts-about-black-immigrants-in-the-u-s/
(^Cumulatively, more like less than half. And remember that Black immigrants in general are only 10% of all black people in the US; and still less than 20% if you count US-born descendants.)


So there's literally zero evidence of African preferential admission. Because it's a made up xenophobic thing.


And having actually been a black immigrant to the US and foreign worker, can I also just say that from what I've seen most orgs screen AGAINST foreign workers (like literally a 'will you need a visa or gc' checkbox in application forms), not FOR them as you claim your workplace did. Even while claiming (sometimes on the same page lol) that they don't discriminate against national origin. EVEN against professions where the US claims worrisome shortages like medical doctors and nurses - go to google and see all the research articles and testimonies in student doctor forums about what IMGs go through, some of which can be career-ending. eg. Taking *years* to match for residency, or cycling in endless low-/un-paid fellowships just to stay legal while trying to keep their immigration timeline and board cert timeline in sync. I once knew an MD recent MPH who, after years of practicing in hospitals in Nigeria, couldn't place anywhere before his OPT window ran out and took up a job tutoring kids in biology (not a bad job, but not what he paid/borrowed out the ass training for) bc that was the only org willing to deal with his immig issues. He had been separated from his wife and kid for years by that point, and likely still is given 45 taking office and straight up BANNING Nigerian nationals from being able to obtain green cards, which btw is the only way he can reunite with his family other than taking a hundred thousand dollar L to move back. There are SO MANY African immigrants going through shit like this. And you'd probably call African immigrants like him "elite" bc of his level of education and experience, but it's my observation that being extra-educated or coming from a wealthy background doesn't actually help one's immigration journey much other than making one's travel and living arrangements more comfortable. They stress, scramble, overstay, or in some cases pack up and leave just like anybody else.

The reality is there's so much racism and blatant discrimination embedded in the US immigration system, and by extension the climate/culture surrounding foreign workers, that national origin ends up intersecting race, gender, etc as yet another domain of exclusion. Sadistic types tend to see nothing wrong with this, and it's a common misperception that immigrants don't/shouldn't have any rights on US soil. Which not only isn't true (due at least to international consensus on this matter via multiple multilateral treaties and conventions), but I would argue racism, sexism, and other forms of discrimination are wrong NO MATTER WHO the recipient is whether Black American, foreign-born, or whoever.

In
>America, those who benefit, do so on the backs of Black
>Americans' struggle.
>

I hear you, and I understand and respect the pain and resentment behind these words. Black Americans have struggled far too long.

But against whom? If frustrations are with past and current US policy and white supremacy in general, taking those frustrations out on foreign blacks achieves what?

Furthermore, isn't truly transformative politics also a numbers game? I mean look at the enormous racial divide in polling about racism, reparations, etc:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/us/reparations-poll-trnd/index.html
https://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/file.php?path=/images/CQ_Researcher/r20190823-proposals.gif

^These polls (Huff P, AP-NORC) from 2019 estimate almost 3/4s of White people in America are against reparations v. like 2/3s of Black people who support it.

My thing is, at least *some* of that Black support is from black immigrants and/or black immigrant descendants... who perhaps aren't populous enough to pose a demographic threat to Black Americans any time soon, but could possibly tilt a close house, senate, or presidential race for a pro-Black/pro-Reparations candidate that's come down to thousands of votes. So when Black Americans position as anti-immigration (or, in some circles, even anti-citizenship for foreign black people and their descendants), it only chips away at the coalition that could actually help deliver the votes and funding needed to make Black transformative policy goals a reality.

Why can't your (very valid) point instead serve as a call-to-action for non-ADOS Black people to give back?? Black immigrants wouldn't even be able to live in the US if not for the courage and sacrifices of so many Black Americans, the least we can do is help politically. I know many African immigrants and/or first generation that see things this way and understand that if the lives of Black Americans in the US improve, it would also benefit other Black groups across the board (at the very least in terms of improved health and safety).

It's also worth mentioning that leaning xenophobic and anti-immigration just does white supremacists' work for them, since even a cursory examination of how immigration to the US actually functions reveals strong interest in preserving a white demographic majority (and 75%-strong reparations veto) in the US (eg. see the meticulously curated European-White and Asian composition of Visa Waiver Program countries https://www.dhs.gov/visa-waiver-program-requirements; as well as the 45th admin's full-fledged assault on non-white immigration via various travel bans, green card bans, family separations, forced sterilizations, and even their soon-to-be-implemented cash bond pilot program bc hey, cash bonds are such a popular and equitable feature of the criminal justice system (note: and if anything will restrict US immigration from Africa to elites, it will be charging 5-figure USD cash bonds just to qualify for entry)).

>I think people underestimate the role class plays in all
>these other countries.
>
>OR I think we realize that there are a lot of places we can go
>and be winning in a more class driven country.

There's so much privilege simply in being paid USD (or euros, pounds, cad, aud... but because of how America moves in the international monetary system and USD being the global reserve currency, until its inevitable collapse the USD is for now more brolic).

Even a super-impoverished American pulling together maybe a few hundred a month (eg. via panhandling and other measures) is wealthier than an impoverished African by at least an order of magnitude, due to inflation. For example about 80M Nigerians (so a little under half the population) live below the country's poverty line of <140000NGN p.a. (https://www.worldbank.org/en/programs/lsms/brief/nigeria-releases-new-report-on-poverty-and-inequality-in-country) which, because of inflation, translates to just under 400USD p.a. For comparison's sake, a 50kg bag of rice able to feed a family for 1-2 months costs about 100USD.

So you can see the incentive for an emigrant or asylee from a poor country in trying for a diversity or student visa (if they can find/borrrow money for the fees), or crossing a border/desert/ocean etc. to get some job - any job - even if it paid that little. OR, the incentive for even the more educated/privileged emigrants who are just trying to fully monetize their skillset (especially where there's stated need/shortages eg. medical + nursing degrees in the US). It's about access to dollars. Or rather, doing/studying the things necessary just to improve the *likelihood* of one day being approved to go where the dollars are. Not so much plotting to displace anybody (eg. Black Americans), despite some rhetoric in the US insinuating otherwise. In fact I bet AT LEAST half the US' international migrant inflow could ultimately boil down to the currency thing.

And should we really be surprised considering the institutionalized siphoning and hoarding of 30% of the planet's wealth in 1 country:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-wealth-in-one-visualization

I mean imagine just 1 US citizen (Bezos) has a net worth = the GDP of Zimbabwe + Congo + Somalia + how many other black countries

if you go by strictly dollars...we good...
but thriving encompasses as WHOOOOOOLE host of variables IMO...
So I'd rate us as average there... not above, not below...just average.
I think our average is based less on race variables and more on locality, age and stress level & family variables though....


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Definitely not struggling but also balling. My fam probably thinks I’m balling but that’s because most of them can barely keep the lights on.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

By all measures killing it, but we aren't supposed to talk about things like that (a) because I am superstitious and don't want to jinx it and (b) it really is bad taste.

I bring it up here because we are mostly anonymous and it seems like we don't hear the other side of it coming from people that aren't aholes. That is, everyone who I hear talking about how great this country has been for them are these flag waiving love it or leave it racist super-patriots (or black Instagram people who love to stunt because of their own insecurities).

IDK, maybe I am lowkey trying to stunt but I know a lot of it has been luck and winning the genetic lottery of coming from a well-educated two-parent household.

again, IDK. I can just see this post turning how all bad this country is I truly in my heart of hearts don't believe. Not because I believe this country is so great, I just think the rest of the world got they own problems too.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and not trying to jinx anyone.

just wondering if I’m tripping when i look at where the wife and I are in our lives. Of course we have stress and jobs and bills but overall our lives are pretty good.

We often discussed moving from the US during election years but we know deep down unless its an island in central America we aint moving no where else.

When I read blogs from people who have moved out of the states most of them feel like tiny hime blogs. Where the initial appeal is awesome but after a while.. they find it doesn’t fit their lifestyle whether its missing friends and family or just realizing that moving didn’t fix what was broken.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

We got some of the worst health care and quality of living all so we can have money.

Light pollution is making rest harder
Air pollution is making it harder to breathe
Water is being poisoned
There's sugar in EVERYTHING
Food quality has gone done
Noise pollution is making us crazy
There are guns everywhere, including the schools we're sending our kids to
Student loan debt is an albatross
Expectations of work time are on the rise
Pay and work benefits are on the decline
Climate change is making weather unbearable
Our data and privacy is siphoned off at every single step of the way
Then repackaged and sold back to us
And that's all before the burden of how racism makes all of those outcomes worse for us at a higher cost.

All we got is more money. My pockets are straight, my condition of life with an honest and critical eye is a mess
I'd leave this ho in a heartbeat if my wife gave me the greenlight

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Lots of places

Somewhere with more environmental laws and enforcement mechanisms would be my starter. The downside being that most of the places that I'm familiar with don't have a lot of Black people

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

ionno man, if all these places that look inviting dont have a lot of Black representation it gives me pause.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

The trouble now is that I don't want to raise my kids without a racial identity as they're forming theirs.

I have mine, I know who I am. It's a good foundation for a lot of things for me.

I've been to a lot of places on this planet, Japan, Amsterdam, Ireland, Toronto, Istanbul, Moscow ... and I've had race issues in three instances
1. The airport in Moscow ... customs took forever with my passport
2. The hotel in Moscow ... security would follow me to my room
2. A small tourist town on the Irish west coast ... bartender served 3 people who came after me and then served me.

Other than that ... nothing like what I've experienced here ... difference being, I live here, I was only visiting there.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

on your mental health.

Its not healthy to obsess about the bad things that I don't deny that is out there.

You make it sound hopeless and all doom and gloom. That can't be your day to day or moment to moment focus.

I'm turning into my grandma because I legit feel good about waking up each morning and having my health. There is nothing that brings me more than bullshitting with my family.

I know a lot of people are out there suffering and don't even have these baseline benefits of good health, family, security, shelter but those of us who do have those things are no benefit to the people who do not have those things and would be unable to help them, if we are hopeless and see the challenges as so insurmountable.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

That as long as you got a roof over your head and food on your plate things "feel good" so they must be good.

But they're not.

Things are bad, and there's no point in me lying to myself about that part.


>I know a lot of people are out there suffering and don't even have
>these baseline benefits of good health, family, security, shelter but
>those of us who do have those things are no benefit to the people who
>do not have those things and would be unable to help them, if we are
>hopeless and see the challenges as so insurmountable.

My view also isn't hopeless, it's realistic. Because without an honest accounting people can offer us pennies on the dollars while actively making things worse. The challenges we face as a people, as a country, as a planet aren't insurmountable ... but they are large and people will tell you that it's not that bad ... when it truly is ... take that recycling and plastics post from a few months back ... we could've actually been doing something about recycling and now we're another 30-40 years worse

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

Or No Black People in America?

You say there are "Lots" of other places that are better. But you didn't name one. Can you name a place that would be better?

I am also curious did you always feel this way or did something change? And if the former, when did it change?


You were dismissive of my world view but can't help but read your take on everything and it not a matter of disposition.



>That as long as you got a roof over your head and food on
>your plate things "feel good" so they must be good.
>
>But they're not.
>
>Things are bad, and there's no point in me lying to myself
>about that part.
>
>
>>I know a lot of people are out there suffering and don't even
>have
>>these baseline benefits of good health, family, security,
>shelter but
>>those of us who do have those things are no benefit to the
>people who
>>do not have those things and would be unable to help them, if
>we are
>>hopeless and see the challenges as so insurmountable.
>
>My view also isn't hopeless, it's realistic. Because without
>an honest accounting people can offer us pennies on the
>dollars while actively making things worse. The challenges we
>face as a people, as a country, as a planet aren't
>insurmountable ... but they are large and people will tell you
>that it's not that bad ... when it truly is ... take that
>recycling and plastics post from a few months back ... we
>could've actually been doing something about recycling and now
>we're another 30-40 years worse


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I’d say if anyone was being dismissive it started there.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

to try and understand yours. Do you not want to answer my questions?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

In the same way I don't think pessimism is doom and gloom.
I choose to be pessimistic, which doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge good ... but that I contextualize where things stand
And since all I'm doing is expressing myself and my thoughts, I don't feel a need to add caveats for others comforts.

>Or No Black People in America?
No Black Americans are thriving, a lot of us are becoming more financial stable in a rapidly declining world.

>You say there are "Lots" of other places that are better. But you
>didn't name one. Can you name a place that would be better?
Almost anywhere short of Brazil or Russia or the Middle East ... it's a low bar. America is actively making all of things I mentioned worse, while denying the severity. That alone makes other places better ... not good ... better.

>I am also curious did you always feel this way or did something change?
>And if the former, when did it change?
I've always been a realist more than an optimist. But I'd say there's a straight line for my more negative view that would go Bush election -> 9/11 -> war -> re-election -> financial collapse -> recession -> reading up on Reagan -> 8 years of Obama and open racism -> 4 years of Trump

We are a country that has improved on the margins while continuously treating the most vulnerable as a thing to be shed or punished, not to be helped.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

I get the argument that the world is rapidly declining so no matter how anyone thinks we are doing we are all f*cked, but I don't get the part that it only applies to black people.

That sounds like Black Nihilism or Defeatism.

And knowing black history and talking to older black folks, I find it hard to believe that black people 30+ years weren't a lot worst off than we are now.

And not even sure how you came up with Brazil, Russia and Middle East are the only places worst for black people to be. I am not sure what metrics you are using. Poverty Level? Homicide levels?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

For us. In America.
Because the question at the top of the post was ... Black Americans, are you thriving in America.
And my answer is ... no, none of us are thriving because this country has been on a decline overall in the listed specific ways and outcomes for Black people are disproportionately felt in this country.

Am I doing better than my grandparents? Substantially so from a professional outcome and financial status it's not even close.

But what's happened to the planet and environment driven by industrialization has shattered the context of what doing better is. All we have is more money. Our bodies are trying to survive in an extremely different world. It's why heart disease and cancer are up.

>And not even sure how you came up with Brazil, Russia and Middle East
>are the only places worst for black people to be. I am not sure what
>metrics you are using. Poverty Level? Homicide levels?

Pollution and denial of its effects on overall quality of life. Outside of Brazil and Russia every other country on this planet is trying to curb the problem of an decreasingly liveable planet. We three are exacerbating the problem. Even a place like China is powering through with renewable energy for the future. We're doubling down on fracking.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

at right around average...
but the fact that we're able to land there by directly addressing many of the adversities you describe I guess puts us above average and somewhat thriving maybe??

>We got some of the worst health care and quality of living
>all so we can have money.
>
>Light pollution is making rest harder
>Air pollution is making it harder to breathe
>Water is being poisoned
>There's sugar in EVERYTHING
>Food quality has gone done
>Noise pollution is making us crazy
>There are guns everywhere, including the schools we're sending
>our kids to
>Student loan debt is an albatross
>Expectations of work time are on the rise
>Pay and work benefits are on the decline
>Climate change is making weather unbearable
>Our data and privacy is siphoned off at every single step of
>the way
>Then repackaged and sold back to us
>And that's all before the burden of how racism makes all of
>those outcomes worse for us at a higher cost.
>
>All we got is more money. My pockets are straight, my
>condition of life with an honest and critical eye is a mess
>I'd leave this ho in a heartbeat if my wife gave me the
>greenlight


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

Like yeah I can afford to run my ac to a degree that I don't look at the electric bill but on the other hand I gotta run my ac to a degree that's insane because the planet is hotter.

To me that's not thriving, that's weathering a storm better.

I want all of us in the sunshine though.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

other family members might look at me and be like "You thriving dawg!!"
But then i'm looking at some of my peers like..."Naw, THEY thriving...i'm just doing aight...average"...
But yeah, all in all...it's very hard to feel like you're thriving when your folks as a whole clearly aren't


"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

not you and all your cousins and extended family.

at least that was my intention when posting it.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

But we’re definitely in a good position out here.
Arlington was just rated safest city in America by some random publication too..... random I know... but it made me rethink my response a bit.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

it's truly incredible. such many lies and deceit in this country

>We got some of the worst health care and quality of living
>all so we can have money.
>

I can’t view the world that way because its like viewing national politics. I’ll vote but I know damn well I can have more of an impact in local elections and can actually attend meetings and have my voice heard.

its way too exhausting and damn near crazy to try and tackle all those things on that list or use them as a barometer for my standing in America as a Black man with a family.

By your metrics the world has been slipping into darkness since the beginning of time and while true... we are only here for a moment in time.

So things that have been in morion for hundreds of years wont be solved in one lifetime

I’m just trying to be in a better place than I was a year ago.

World is gonna do what the world is gonna do.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I don't think I stick my head in the sand and its not that I am not aware of all those things or DGAF, but if I focus on them things, life would be miserable for me and my kids.

My family history means Dementia from my dad's side will likely kick in the next 20 years and if that don't do it the heart attacks on my momma side might get me in my 60s.

If I focused on that I would be miserable. Instead I am trying to appreciate this time I got right now and enjoy my kids and raise them optimistic enough to want to take on the world.

And as a person getting older, I keep thinking I should have appreciated life more when I was younger and it was a LOT easier.





>I can’t view the world that way because its like viewing
>national politics. I’ll vote but I know damn well I can have
>more of an impact in local elections and can actually attend
>meetings and have my voice heard.
>
>its way too exhausting and damn near crazy to try and tackle
>all those things on that list or use them as a barometer for
>my standing in America as a Black man with a family.
>
>By your metrics the world has been slipping into darkness
>since the beginning of time and while true... we are only here
>for a moment in time.
>
>So things that have been in morion for hundreds of years wont
>be solved in one lifetime
>
>I’m just trying to be in a better place than I was a year
>ago.
>
>World is gonna do what the world is gonna do.
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and I know a lot of fuck shit gets left on our doorstep first but we don’t have to answer the door every time something comes knocking.

I remember someone talking about how they were worried about grilling because of climate change..

I’m like “nigga, if you don’t light that gotdamn charcoal”

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I can't comment from personal experience on the hardships inherent in being black in america but letting climate change or the existence of sugary food clog your mental gears on a daily basis seems a recipe for preventable unhappiness. Gotta tend to the garden near at hand. Omg twinkies exist--dont eat them bro

It's in part why culturally we shame other Black people, because a lot of us feel that the individual represents the masses.
But that same lot that will burden themselves with identifying with the failing of others will uncouple their own successes from the larger group.

So I ask, in that vein, how can the same folks that think Kanye (for example) makes "us" look bad turn around and say "I personally" am thriving, when Black Americans are going THROUGH it?

Like if you're a Black person that thinks the BLM slogan hurts Black people for a variety of reasons, how can you also be a Black person that's so divorced from the pain and issues that have led to that movement to feel as if you're thriving?

My people, my culture, my country, my planet are struggling and a lot of us aren't surviving ... so no matter how good my life is ... I'm not thriving.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

Makes a lot of sense. Also your other reply provides some context. Ie you're not mister doom&gloom pessimist in your day to day but addressing the question here, you went broader and yea zoomed out there's no doubt a lot of fucked up shit to be concerned about.

I struggle to navigate a lot of these issues. My instincts and thoughts lead me certain ways a little out of step with the "party line" or "proper ally behavior" or w/e and I don't really have the inclination to write like essay length responses defending things that I'm still trying to work out. Especially given the climate of people sniping at words out of context and whatnot. Anyway, I appreciate the response, good luck with that grass. Succulents, cacti maybe? Let's hope national politics can turn a better corner for us all soon

>It's in part why culturally we shame other Black people,
>because a lot of us feel that the individual represents the
>masses.
>But that same lot that will burden themselves with identifying
>with the failing of others will uncouple their own successes
>from the larger group.
>
>So I ask, in that vein, how can the same folks that think
>Kanye (for example) makes "us" look bad turn around and say "I
>personally" am thriving, when Black Americans are going
>THROUGH it?
>
>Like if you're a Black person that thinks the BLM slogan hurts
>Black people for a variety of reasons, how can you also be a
>Black person that's so divorced from the pain and issues that
>have led to that movement to feel as if you're thriving?
>
>My people, my culture, my country, my planet are struggling
>and a lot of us aren't surviving ... so no matter how good my
>life is ... I'm not thriving.

>By your metrics the world has been slipping into darkness since the
>beginning of time and while true... we are only here for a moment in
>time.

Exactly this. We're only here or a moment in time.

I feel as if yall keep reading me as doom and gloom in the way of an Eeyore would look at the world when I feel more like a spiteful cynic. I'm not down about what I have. I actually like my life. I'm mad at the conditions that they exist in.

I have my health, my family, we're safe and stable and in a micro sense life is good. I have nothing worth complaining about. So I can appreciate what I have on one hand and on that same hand contextualize it as a means to be grateful for it; I don't live my life as if I exist apart from the larger world. I go as my neighbor goes, as my city goes, as my state goes, as my country goes, as my planet goes.

So I got this house earlier this year, big yard, but my backyard got burned the fuck out due to drought conditions ... I'm not sad about my yard, it's just grass, but I do find it hard to reconcile my desire to cohabitate with nature with my ability to take care of my family. To clear these neighborhoods we now live in they had to raze a good deal of ground, moving far out wouldn't have been feasible for work, moving to houses with older trees we're affordable, and the closer to the city center the hotter it is due to growth. Recognizing all of that doesn't put me up because of my house or down because of the conditions ... I exist somewhere in a middle of "things are".

Or take my money situation. I left the postal service specifically to work in grocery because I wanted experience that was recession proof. Recently we just received a LARGE bonus. And I'm grateful for that, but the conditions that exist around it I feel spite about. I wish there were more stimulus, more protections for workers, I'm bothered by how many industries and jobs and humans are hurting. I'm not up about my money or down because others don't have theirs ... I exist in a middle of "I'm doing good, a lot of people are doing bad, what can I do to help"

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

Not truly.

Networks,

systems

ownership

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

People said they are good and lets just look at it from a superficial salary level as most people do.

Lets say everyone is right they are well off

making a salary well above the 30k average American.

30% or less debt.

Paid off property (NOT A MORTGAGE)

If you lost your JOB can you survive for 3 to 6 months? Do you have a network that can pool together and help you?

What institutions do you have so that whatever you are doing it won't necessarily stop with you or be robbed from you when you die but your children can benefit (and their children).

We don't have systems, institutions and networks.

Hell we don't even have an ideology.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

>People said they are good and lets just look at it from a
>superficial salary level as most people do.
>
>Lets say everyone is right they are well off
>
>making a salary well above the 30k average American.
>
>30% or less debt.
>
>Paid off property (NOT A MORTGAGE)

No.. my mortgage isn’t paid off YET. Just refi’d to a 10 year mortgage tho so thats the plan. But even a mortgage is better than renting in most cases. My property is up over 100% since we “bought” it.
>
>If you lost your JOB can you survive for 3 to 6 months? Do you
>have a network that can pool together and help you?

thankfully we could survive for 3 to 6 months. This wasn’t always the case and we definitely feel blessed to finally have am emergency account.
>
>What institutions do you have so that whatever you are doing
>it won't necessarily stop with you or be robbed from you when
>you die but your children can benefit (and their children).

All we have is this house, retirement and life insurance policy. They won’t get rich but it would pay off the house and pay for their college if thats what they want to do.
>
>We don't have systems, institutions and networks.
>
>Hell we don't even have an ideology.
>

I’m also blessed to marry into a southern family who had men who built all their houses with their own hands and have kept most of them in the family for generations. So seeing that made me realize we can own land, build houses and hand them down. Its not a dream, its something I’ve witnessed first hand.

They even own farm land (I ain’t farming but the wife’s fam owns property that other family members farm on).

My grandfather also owned a bunch of properties in the Burgh. They weren’t mansions but a lot of kids and grandkids were raised in those homes and we didn’t worry about losing our homes when the Steel Mills closed (Thanks grandad)

while we aren’t rich by any means we are doing our best to make sure these kids have something they can live in and a nice little starter kit when we go to the upper room instead of scrambling to pay for our funeral.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

If its to be black is to be hopeless with grim prospects, say it.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

most folks, including me, in this post tend to look at more immediate things but don't include what he mentioned. some of us are on the way but not there yet.

thriving wasn't defined or maybe I missed it, so we each decided what it meant for ourselves.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

i should not be here, but I am.

nothing is perfect, black lives in the US are deeply devalued.


I'm in a really strange position, I understand both worlds and my struggle lately has been learning to accept my current reality because I'm mentally still in the hood and don't think I should be here...but I am here.

"Here" is stable family life, a great career, no addictions, no criminal record, generational wealth building, etc., all while sitting in a nice new home.

I don't mean to say that I judge others for not having those things. My life could have EASILY gone down some dark paths. I come from a long line of poverty, addiction and mental illness. All of those things were held over my head while growing up in not one but several high crime areas. South Central, Compton, North Lawndale Chicago, North Long Beach, East Orange NJ.



I'm doing what my dad couldn't do or my grandfathers couldn't do which is to be present and loving.

So yeah...I'm thriving, but I also want more.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

Neither my parents or my wifes parents went to college or made an amount of money that is considered substantial

we have a combined income of 250K+ and both of us have grad degrees

granted we live in a major city so we still feel the struggle, but it's a different type of struggle

its the struggle of paying off a mortgage early to a 5 bedroom house
its the struggle of paying college tuition in full without the aid of need-based scholarship

my oldest graduated college and we were able to assume the little bit of debt that she accumulated....she's essentially debt free and working in her field of study, able to attend grad school without having to pay a lot.

my youngest is currently in college....i'm paying close to 60k a year out of pocket, but she will also be debt free when shes done.

i'm handcuffed to my current job because of what I need financially in order to accomplish these goals.....but after that i'll be 50 and hopefully able to ease into a simpler way of life....smaller house, etc

we both have 501k/retirement accounts from different jobs over the last 20 years....added it up and theres close to 750k.....I don't know if that's where we're supposed to be, but I feel decent about it.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*