They de-gender nursery rhymes???? Baa, baa, black sheep Have you any wool? Yes, sir, yes, sir Three bags full One for the master And one for the dame One for the little ONE <<<<<< not boy...but ONE.... Who lives down the lane...
but they kept sir, & master... WPOTGiT??
Also, with the winter & snow coming, they've been talking about snow activities...and they don't say Snowman...they say Snowperson! ... TF?!?
8. "I trust you go all in with it though, right? Like...why half-ass it?? " In response to Reply # 5
I don't even know why switching out boy got my goat the most lol... As it progressed I was like "Damn, we still using that master term huh...." then when she swapped out the boy I was like "Oh so THAT'S the only issue with this lil nursery rhyme you found??"
The snowman though... ionno... it's silly. We just say snowwoman or snowman or snowkid or snow angel. Snowperson just sounds....silly..
"Get ready....for your blessing....." "Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"
9. "I think isolating it is the half way " In response to Reply # 8
Sometimes I say snowman Sometimes I say snowperson
My personal feeling is that inclusive language isn't neutrality focused, it's inclusively focused.
There's a world of words to describe the same things and concepts, why limit it?
Strangely I find nothing wrong with master in most settings ... the exceptions being when it's paired with slaves Master bedroom ... cool Master/slave in tech ... change that shit
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
11. "re: neutrality vs. inclusively focused...great take... i'm still process..." In response to Reply # 9
an approach that's both natural to us & in alignment with our daughters' current growth stages....
>There's a world of words to describe the same things and >concepts, why limit it?
>Strangely I find nothing wrong with master in most settings >... the exceptions being when it's paired with slaves >Master bedroom ... cool >Master/slave in tech ... change that shit
I've always hated that nursery rhyme ONLY because of the master line lol... So it was really weird to hear gender in that one line swapped out but not the more offending (to me) term of master.
"Get ready....for your blessing....." "Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"
13. "These damn soyboy betacuck antifa libtards done it again! " In response to Reply # 0 Tue Dec-15-20 11:42 AM by Cold Truth
DAMMIT!
Now our girls get to learn in an environment that isn't nearly exclusively gendered toward males. Worse, our girls are no longer subjected to constant, subtle programming telling them that boys are the literal center of the world.
Now our boys are subjected to a learning environment where they aren't subtly reminded, day in and day out, that the world revolves around them.
Even worse? This is another step toward removing the construct of gender all together, because this is another step toward removing the practice of hardwiring gender roles into our children, so that, as they grow, they're actually free to work out their gender identity all on their own.
What a travesty.
Things aren't exactly as they once were, and since I'm too stubbornly set in my ways to spend a little time learning and evaluating the significant societal benefits of such changes, I'm just going to sit here and be incredulous about it.
This sure ain't my pappy's 'Murica, and I gotta say, I sympathize, brother. Those betacuck soyboy queers are gonna have my boy suckin dick and my girl thinking she's equal to a human with a dick.
22. "they didn't change Mary Had a Little Lamb......." In response to Reply # 16
And it's amusing to me that both you and Cold Truth and Chernic are assuming I'M the only one in my household questioning these sort of inconsistencies and nuances....
"Get ready....for your blessing....." "Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"
25. "Show me one statement where anyone here said that." In response to Reply # 22
>And it's amusing to me that both you and Cold Truth and >Chernic are assuming I'M the only one in my household >questioning these sort of inconsistencies and nuances....
Please point out where anyone made any assumption that you're the only person in your household questioning this. Show me where I made that assumption, so that I retract it.
Because there are plenty of women who are uncomfortable with deviations from unnecessary, antiquated traditions. Thing is, we're talking to you. Not anyone else in your household.
As for your "Mary had a little lamb" bit, the song is about.... Mary.
The song is a pretty specific story, not a generic rhyme that, like so many things, defaults to male pronouns.
And if someone wrote a "Larry" version, big whoop. Nothing to see there, nothing to rant about.
You think you found a gotcha with this slippery slope argument, but you didn't.
27. "I simply don't like your tone specifically..... " In response to Reply # 25 Tue Dec-15-20 01:20 PM by FLUIDJ
Something about your first nonsense response don't sit right with me.... ....not really interested in arguing....that's not what the post is about....
The others just be saying shit that's clearly based on assumptions about me and my character....Chernic talking about my hill and Reeg bringing my fathering practices into the equation...
I make posts about my thoughts.... That's generally been my posting style for the past 10+ years.... More often than not, the posts are typically a way for me to gauge whether my inner thoughts are on the wrong or right side of the bigger picture....
"Get ready....for your blessing....." "Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"
31. "Ha! That's what's up. They're doing a lesson on where wool comes from" In response to Reply # 30
and how clothes are made BTW....hence all the nursery rhymes and songs.... I appreciate the way they've bundled practical education on real world stuff with traditional nursery rhymes and songs.... vs. just mindelessly singing nursery rhymes....
"Get ready....for your blessing....." "Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"
36. "Except, it got half a bar in your OP" In response to Reply # 34 Tue Dec-15-20 02:06 PM by Cold Truth
Here's your post:
Is it too far to....
They de-gender nursery rhymes???? Baa, baa, black sheep Have you any wool? Yes, sir, yes, sir Three bags full One for the master And one for the dame One for the little ONE <<<<<< not boy...but ONE.... Who lives down the lane...
but they kept sir, & master... WPOTGiT??
Also, with the winter & snow coming, they've been talking about snow activities...and they don't say Snowman...they say Snowperson! ... TF?!?
****
You made a single statement about the "master" issue, also lamenting that "sir" was included.
But you opened with "they de-gender nursery rhymes? Then you pointed out that they changed "boy" to "one then closed the whole post with the change from "man" to "person".
By any objective measure, your key issue, as actually presented, is very clearly the gender issue, because the "master" issue was essentially an aside.
You don't get to pretend that I casually overlooked something that was mentioned at a 1-3 ratio to the thing I addressed.
***Edit: If you're saying that that's your real key issue here, that's all good. But I'm not going to stand for this notion that I somehow went far afield of the actual content of the OP.
40. "One mention of master. Three for gender. " In response to Reply # 38 Tue Dec-15-20 02:12 PM by Cold Truth
They de-gender nursery rhymes????
One for the little ONE <<<<<< not boy...but ONE....
but they kept sir, & master... WPOTGiT??
and they don't say Snowman...they say Snowperson! ... TF?!?
^^^^this is the content of your OP, apart from the rhyme itself.
This isn't me failing to recognize the subject and predicate of a sentence.
The content of your OP rather strongly, and quite clearly, shows that your primary problem is the gender issues. That's not even a matter of opinion. That's in indisputable fact.
75% of your rant pertained to the gender issue.
So no, you don't get to pretend that I somehow missed your key issue. That may have been what was in your head, but it's certainly not what you actually wrote.
39. "Thank you...this makes sense regarding the term Master being required" In response to Reply # 35
for appropriate context and the gender of the child being unimportant... So this indeed negates my questioning why editing master isn't of equal necessity and importance as editing the gender of the child for modern use of the nursery rhyme.
"Get ready....for your blessing....." "Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"
46. "How y'all capping for the term "Master"??!?! Do you call anyone "Master"..." In response to Reply # 41
There is a whole movement to remove that term in particular from casual parlance. My college did away with the term for headmasters. A lot of realtors no longer refer to the main bedrooms as master bedroom. Even a movement in tech to no longer refer to drives as master and slave.
I think there is a point to be made if you are going to go down this road of analysis language and its harmful impact, when you change one word and not another that has roots in classism and exploitation of domestic workers, then you are valuing one harm over another.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
49. "I don't believe that *any* of the language should be changed" In response to Reply # 46 Tue Dec-15-20 02:58 PM by flipnile
I'd rather have footnotes (or a foreword) added to explain not only the context that the story was written/created in, but also the context of the actual story.
Also... If the story has to be 'cleaned up' for the kids then maybe the story itself isn't appropriate for education in the first place. Why force the kids to read 'classics' that are pretty far out of date culturally. There are plenty of other options...
44. "established now that the use of master has been clarified a bit....I.O.W..." In response to Reply # 43
I get it.....
Snowperson still don't ring right to me in general terms....but that's less about gender and more about how it sounds to my ears vs. the alternatives (snow woman, snow kid, etc.)....
"Get ready....for your blessing....." "Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"
48. "but other than you're not used to hearing it, it's such a nothing thing" In response to Reply # 44
i grew up hearing mailman now people generally say mail carrier since pretty much half of them are women, but even if it was 10% i can't see myself digging in like "WTF its mailMAN!"
seeing that snow people aren't real, it's an even weirder thing to be actually bothered by lol.
>I get it..... > >Snowperson still don't ring right to me in general >terms....but that's less about gender and more about how it >sounds to my ears vs. the alternatives (snow woman, snow kid, >etc.)....
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