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Subject: "I need yall to listen to Nice White Parents so we can discuss it. " Previous topic | Next topic
Buddy_Gilapagos
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45561 posts
Tue Nov-17-20 11:52 AM

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"I need yall to listen to Nice White Parents so we can discuss it. "


  

          

From the creators of Serial, I a podcast about White Parents and Public Schools.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html


BTW, the writer chana joffe walt did a piece of This American Life about kids from a Bronx Public School visiting a Private School a few years ago that was so powerful I immediately wrote her after hearing it to thank her for making it. It's called 3 Miles.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/550/three-miles



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
BEYOND dope
Nov 17th 2020
1
This was a great listen, thanks.
Nov 17th 2020
2
this was excellent..and i love the bonus episode
Nov 17th 2020
3
yeah I appreciated Walt on Planet Money and
Nov 18th 2020
4
Yeah, me and NHJ aka Ida Bae Wells had twitter beef over that article.
Nov 20th 2020
5
Only on the first ep but
Nov 22nd 2020
6
you've listened to 1 episode. smh
Nov 22nd 2020
7
So you are encouraging me to keep listening?
Nov 22nd 2020
8
      Keep listening.
Nov 22nd 2020
9
      this is overboard, even for you LOL
Nov 23rd 2020
11
           Pot meet kettle
Nov 23rd 2020
13
IDK. I think it would be less interesting if they painted the white par...
Nov 23rd 2020
10
      3 eps in. I am not her audience so it's annoying
Nov 23rd 2020
12

soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12037 posts
Tue Nov-17-20 12:11 PM

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1. "BEYOND dope"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm a few eps behind tho.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
68082 posts
Tue Nov-17-20 03:07 PM

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2. "This was a great listen, thanks. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

It went as expected.. but not as expected.

I thought they would spend more time on the differences between the school but the actual direction they went in was on point.

College is a shock to the system for most kids. Especially if you come from a small HS and go to a big D1 school. I remember going to U of Tennessee my first year. I had like $500 in my pocket and knew I was balling. After buying books? Smh

Then I had to pay for college and stand in those long ass lines.. just to be told I had to go to another line. I ended up going to a Black professors office and he walked me thru the whole process.

Then i had science and math lectures with 300 students.

After that first year I was out. Only thing good was the friendships made and finding out what the fuck a freaknik was down in ATL.

A lot of people I went to HS with ended up changing schools or taking a semester/year off to lick wounds before finding their groove.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34751 posts
Tue Nov-17-20 03:49 PM

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3. "this was excellent..and i love the bonus episode"
In response to Reply # 0


          

where she challenged her own assumptions and proved herself wrong

that's what i love about researched-based things

a Covid-19 followup would also be interesting

d

"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

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sosumi
Member since May 30th 2012
812 posts
Wed Nov-18-20 06:43 PM

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4. "yeah I appreciated Walt on Planet Money and"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

remember 3 Miles on TAL

NWP reminded me of the way things go down in many aspects of life when the well meaning whites get involved

still prefer Hannah-Jones work on this though

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/magazine/choosing-a-school-for-my-daughter-in-a-segregated-city.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q986tzWpmYA

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
45561 posts
Fri Nov-20-20 03:10 PM

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5. "Yeah, me and NHJ aka Ida Bae Wells had twitter beef over that article. "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Impressive work but I think she gets wrong, like the Supreme Court got wrong, the idea that the goal is integration. In my opinion, the goal isn't integration but rather to improve the education and opportunity for black kids and to give them the freedom to go to white schools in pursuit of that goal. Brown got a lot right, but I can't abide with the notion that "separate schools, even if they had similar resources, were “inherently” — by their nature — unequal, causing profound damage to the children who attended them and hobbling their ability to live as full citizens of their country. "

I do not believe "Segregated, racially homogeneous schools damage the personality of minority-group children. These schools decrease their motivation and thus impair their ability to learn. White children are also damaged."

And don't get me wrong, I am not one of these fools walking around talking about things were better for black people during segregation. I say this as someone who went to mostly black K-12 and saw the benefits of being surrounded by black classmates and teachers and I saw when I went to college and grad school how black kids can be damaged by going to PWI in those formative years. Also, HBCUs have been proving disproving the idea that black kids are somehow damaged by being in racially homogeneous schools.

I think NHJ uses race and class almost interchangeably in her article, almost equating black with poor and white with middle class and wealthy. Other than that, I don't think she takes into account class in her analysis.

I think its important that poor kids are integrated in schools with middle class and wealthy kids (and manly because class is the best shorthand we have for parental involvement which is the real best indicator for a kid and schools success) but that doesn't necessarily require forced racial integration.

In fact, as detailed in her story of 307 and Chana Joffe-Walt story of IS 293, black students and black schools can be harmed by efforts to integrate when they take promising kids from black schools and send them to white schools (and draining talent from their black school).

In short me and ole girl got into when I expressed my doubt about how successful busing as a strategy is.


Malcolm Gladwell, I know, talks about it and how harmful forced integration was to black teachers in a dope podcast on the subject.

https://blog.simonsays.ai/miss-buchanans-period-of-adjustment-revisionist-history-podcast-transcript-b4c65731f73c





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42133 posts
Sun Nov-22-20 09:48 AM

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6. "Only on the first ep but"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

There's something about the framing of it which is annoying to me. The fact that it's being approached like this should be surprising given the cultural context. It's that this is journalistic presentation of the facts that is but isn't editorializing so as to present the impression of critical rigor while not really getting too critical.

By the time those six graders are parroting their parents stereotypes it really should have been digging in yet its just like an "interesting" thing. White fragility is being protected even in this take down of white privilege.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34751 posts
Sun Nov-22-20 11:03 AM

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7. "you've listened to 1 episode. smh"
In response to Reply # 6


          


"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42133 posts
Sun Nov-22-20 01:05 PM

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8. "So you are encouraging me to keep listening? "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

Shaming my inability to have the time to do 5+ hours straight?

Saying my opinion of the first episode is off base because I haven't heard the rest?

Wishing I'd just stfu until I have heard enough to share your opinion?

Or....

:shrug:

Why are you shaking your head exactly?

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
68082 posts
Sun Nov-22-20 01:28 PM

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9. "Keep listening."
In response to Reply # 8


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34751 posts
Mon Nov-23-20 08:47 PM

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11. "this is overboard, even for you LOL"
In response to Reply # 8


          

>Shaming my inability to have the time to do 5+ hours
>straight?

that's a weirdly hypersensitive question when you never mentioned when or how you were listening to it ...smh

>Saying my opinion of the first episode is off base because I
>haven't heard the rest?

bingo. see was that so hard to understand? but then you...

>Wishing I'd just stfu until I have heard enough to share your
>opinion?


...dude i don't give a flying fuck if you share my opinion or not. how does it benefit me in any way? like who are you even? why do you think your opinion would mean anything at all to me? smh (again!) lol
>Or....
>
>:shrug:
>
>Why are you shaking your head exactly?

cuz you on some whiny bullshit.

d

"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42133 posts
Mon Nov-23-20 09:04 PM

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13. "Pot meet kettle"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

I've posted my further thoughts below. Feel free to ignore those because I disagree.

Actually scratch that. I said it below and I'll say it again, I'm pretty short fused in 2020. So I apologize because I know we have had some solid interactions in the past and at the end of the day I know we both have love for and want to see the upliftment of our people. We aren't always going to agree but it's worth remembering that we aren't enemies. We are fighting against the same shit from different perspectives.

I don't post nearly as much as I did in the past but I do so because I know yall are realer than 90% of the non family members I have to deal with on the regular for my livelihood. I don't wanna be having no beef with you.

So I apologize for my tone and sarcasm and will try to come at you right in the future because I do respect you even when we are on opposite sides of an argument.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
45561 posts
Mon Nov-23-20 12:34 PM

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10. "IDK. I think it would be less interesting if they painted the white par..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

as these villianous racist. I think there is this overarching theme about how northern "nice white parents" created a school system more segregated then what was going on in the south without actively knowing their role in creating such a system. I know all these private schools in BK that they mention but never connected the dots that they schools are just as much segregation schools as the kind I saw growing up in VA.

At the same time, I don't think the reporter avoids editorilizing. She just doesn't beat you over the head with her point. She lets the people speak for themselves and trust us to draw the right conclusions. I like the scene where she was interviewing the woman who goes to Paris every year and she gives the lady enough rope to hang herself without having to tell us the woman was an obnoxious blowhard.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42133 posts
Mon Nov-23-20 08:55 PM

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12. "3 eps in. I am not her audience so it's annoying "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Also my tolerance for shit has declined significantly in 2020.

Talking to my wife I realized it. I came up in the NYC public school system. My parents were educators. My wife is an educator. These patterns are shit I lived through. It quite literally shaped who i became as an individual and as a parent. Not trusting the school system to the education of my own kids was I direct result of the underlying systemic racism I experienced.

Since we family here, the reason I have had such a challenge accepting mental health professionals is because they were weaponized against me as an intelligent black male in the public school system to keep me out of gifted programs and protect white fragility. I saw the budget cuts, the overcrowding, the under qualified teachers. I also knew the Private schools, the rich white parents that fundraise, the tokenism.

So she isn't speaking to me. The surprise of it all misses me. And then there are just those moments. It reminds me of everyone's critique of Woodward for holding his Trump interview for a book. I'm not trying to imply she's capitalizing. But in the first episode that wait and see what happens while knowing these folk were going behind the latinx moms back that's that bullshit. Letting the French woman patronize that mom rather than call her out is some bullshit.

And it ain't her fault that's just how this shit goes. I mean there was no deep investigative reporting in this. It was all public fucking record. Got board of ed officials saying yeah that was our racist policy because it's in the fucking minutes.

I don't know. I will make it to the end but like I said she isn't speaking to me. And the people who she is speaking to are the same ones that use chaos and other code words to perpetuate this shit because it protects their interests when it's convenient to them.



█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

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