Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby General Discussion topic #13404836

Subject: "The Role of Police in Movies & Television...let's discuss" Previous topic | Next topic
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 12:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"The Role of Police in Movies & Television...let's discuss"
Thu Sep-24-20 12:12 PM by Damali

          

One thing we all have in common is that we've grown up on television, movies and if you're born after 1996, the internet.

We've all been fed a steady diet of police-centered television shows and movies. Without having done a deep dive analysis, I'm interested in discussing which ones impacted you the most and how you think it framed policing to you...

Hawaii Five O
CHiPs
New York Undercover
Hill Street Blues
NYPD Blue
Law & Order
Cops
Lethal Weapon
The Wire
Mall Cop
Robocop
Beverly Hills Cop
48 Hours
Bad Boys

there are so many more than that...you can add on...but I'm looking for some analysis around how this may have caused us to see cops a certain way and how realistic some of those depictions were...and how people who became cops may have been influenced by those shows...

was life imitating art or was it the other way around?

d


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
An episode of Cops fucked me up
Sep 24th 2020
1
oh shit..wow
Sep 24th 2020
8
no amount of media could ever put a shine on
Sep 24th 2020
2
i hear that.
Sep 24th 2020
9
One thing I'm noticing recently in movies and TV...
Sep 24th 2020
3
lol good catch
Sep 24th 2020
15
      RE: lol good catch
Sep 25th 2020
34
I think Cops did more damage than all these other shows and movies...
Sep 24th 2020
4
nowhere in my post am i talking about that
Sep 24th 2020
16
      i thought he meant Cops the tv show
Sep 24th 2020
26
      Yeah that's how I read it
Sep 25th 2020
31
           y'all are right..my bad. i missed the capital C
Sep 25th 2020
32
      my bad..yes, you're right. that show was hella damaging
Sep 25th 2020
33
Making heros out of cops on TV coupled the reality of the shows cops
Sep 24th 2020
5
exactly.
Sep 24th 2020
17
Critic Alan Sepinwall wrote a lengthy piece about this for Rolling Stone
Sep 24th 2020
6
i love you for this. thank you for finding it. imma read it now
Sep 24th 2020
18
Sepinwall is my favorite TV critic.
Sep 24th 2020
20
This was one of the tougher aspects of the 2018 Spider-Man game
Sep 24th 2020
7
that's really interesting...that's for adding the video game layer
Sep 24th 2020
19
I grew up on most of those shows and actually seriously considered...
Sep 24th 2020
10
RE: I grew up on most of those shows and actually seriously considered.....
Sep 24th 2020
21
      Seriously scream all of this from every rooftop in this shithole country...
Sep 24th 2020
22
      RE: I grew up on most of those shows and actually seriously considered.....
Sep 24th 2020
23
      The creator of Cops said white collar crime is boring to film
Sep 25th 2020
28
      I agree on some points...
Sep 25th 2020
30
Copaganda is a real thing
Sep 24th 2020
11
fuck em.
Sep 24th 2020
12
I've been calling that shit 'Copaganda' for two decades.
Sep 24th 2020
13
I've never been into cop shows.
Sep 24th 2020
14
i always appreciated how the Wire detectives had no gunplay
Sep 24th 2020
27
      Loved Southland.. because who doesn’t like seeing Regina King
Sep 25th 2020
29
Police Academy
Sep 24th 2020
24
What Gets Me Is How Every Network Thinks They Need A Cop Show
Sep 24th 2020
25
gotta say real life framed my point of view on cops much more than tv
Sep 25th 2020
35
Another aspect is how the local news primes viewers to associate
Sep 25th 2020
36
ALL this shit is entertainment to them. i *hate* local news. nm
Sep 27th 2020
38
I grew up on Andy Griffith show, an I realized early that Barney...
Sep 25th 2020
37
You've got a ... multivocal lineup there
Sep 28th 2020
39
"The Myth of the Good Cop" Essay from Abolition for the People...
Oct 10th 2020
40

tomjohn29
Member since Oct 18th 2004
16803 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 12:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
1. "An episode of Cops fucked me up"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I was in elementary school
I got bullied by a group of cousins
Cops was on in the background one day while I was playing in the living room
I look up and I see a house being raided in the middle of the night
I see all the cousins and their parents on the TV
I see the squalor that they were living in
I realized at 8 years old why these kids were bullying me
The next day at school...all of those kids were silent
never got bullied again

all the rest of the cop shit never effected me because it was all make believe...that cops episode haunts me

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 02:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "oh shit..wow"
In response to Reply # 1


          

i don't know if we can say all other cop shows/films are make believe, though. I lot of show runners involve police as consultants to add realism...The Wire is a great example of that. I feel like it offered a insider view, to some degree. not 100% course but just sayin

d

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85077 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 12:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "no amount of media could ever put a shine on "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

a profession i have only had bad experiences in real life with.

and i say that as someone who adores cop procedurals
all the Law and Orders
Chicago PD
CSIs
Person of Interest
all of these shows kick that "ends justify the means" shit. but it's so sanitized. i'd love to see a show like The Boys but for police procedurals. I guess that's what The Shield was? I've only seen a couple episodes.

i do think a majority of folks that are police grew up watching these shows, and being told about the nobility and status of being a cop. "women love a man in uniform" type of shit. and thinking they too were doing some noble cause because of how the shows framed their characters. and some of them joined because the badge gives them the power they lack on their own. but damn near all of these folks were just too stupid to be able to do something else and they'll let anybody be a cop.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 02:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "i hear that."
In response to Reply # 2


          

>a profession i have only had bad experiences in real life
>with.
>
>and i say that as someone who adores cop procedurals
>all the Law and Orders
>Chicago PD
>CSIs
>Person of Interest
>all of these shows kick that "ends justify the means" shit.
>but it's so sanitized.

yes, this is exactly what i'm getting at. We like those shows because the "bad guy" gets caught usually....not very many of those shows depict the corruption of policing, which is why i like the Wire.

i'd love to see a show like The Boys
>but for police procedurals.

yeah and I'm guessing folks are writing those shows right now

I guess that's what The Shield
>was? I've only seen a couple episodes.

yeah i never watched The Shield either

>i do think a majority of folks that are police grew up
>watching these shows, and being told about the nobility and
>status of being a cop. "women love a man in uniform" type of
>shit. and thinking they too were doing some noble cause
>because of how the shows framed their characters. and some of
>them joined because the badge gives them the power they lack
>on their own. but damn near all of these folks were just too
>stupid to be able to do something else and they'll let anybody
>be a cop.

on point.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14026 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 12:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "One thing I'm noticing recently in movies and TV..."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-24-20 12:49 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

The "good" Black people will often be police officers or military. I assume that's because white people have an easier time respecting Black people in those roles. I also don't like when I'm watching a show with mostly white cast, and the dirty cop is the Black one. I think I was watching the first episode of Sense8 when I saw that and just decided I was done watching anymore shows with that dynamic lol. Not saying we can't play villains, but deal with yall's own shit, white folks.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 08:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "lol good catch"
In response to Reply # 3


          

i'm not aware of Sense8...its a show?

but yeah like the dad on Family Matters LOL

d

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14026 posts
Fri Sep-25-20 11:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "RE: lol good catch"
In response to Reply # 15


          

>i'm not aware of Sense8...its a show?

Yeah it's a Netflix show about 8 strangers who keep sharing a vision and then realize they can connect to each others' thoughts and feelings.


>but yeah like the dad on Family Matters LOL

Exactly! Even the dad on Into The Spiderverse, which was definitely white audience friendly. So many of these examples tho.


~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 01:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "I think Cops did more damage than all these other shows and movies..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

combined and multiplied by 100.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 08:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "nowhere in my post am i talking about that"
In response to Reply # 4


          

maybe read it again? that's not the topic. obviously i know real life cops do more damage than a show or movie

can you think more critically about the topic than that surface declaration?

d

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Mynoriti
Charter member
38821 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 11:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "i thought he meant Cops the tv show"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
40926 posts
Fri Sep-25-20 08:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
31. "Yeah that's how I read it"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

COPS the show is pure Copraganda

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Fri Sep-25-20 11:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "y'all are right..my bad. i missed the capital C"
In response to Reply # 31


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Fri Sep-25-20 11:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "my bad..yes, you're right. that show was hella damaging"
In response to Reply # 16


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
16125 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 02:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "Making heros out of cops on TV coupled the reality of the shows cops "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is so weird.

Its been decades with hero cops on TV and that's what people think police is, these super hero, ultra just, and honest.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 08:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "exactly."
In response to Reply # 5


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44720 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 02:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
6. "Critic Alan Sepinwall wrote a lengthy piece about this for Rolling Stone"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-24-20 02:36 PM by mrhood75

  

          

It's long, but it's worth reading. He talks about his long love of cop shows, and many of the recent events are re-framing his perception of some of his favorite shows.

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/cops-on-tv-hollywood-policing-sepinwall-1039131/

A History of Violence: Why I Loved Cop Shows, and Why They Must Change

TV critic Alan Sepinwall breaks down the medium’s longtime love affair with police work, and grapples with how the industry can move forward

I broke into television criticism because of my love for a show about a racist, sexist, alcoholic cop who used the N-word and beat confessions out of suspects. I’ve been thinking about that a lot over the past few months.

In the fall of 1993, the hottest show on TV was ABC’s NYPD Blue. It had been promoted as the first truly adult drama in the history of the medium, with words that had never been said and body parts that had never been shown on network television before. The most shocking part of the series, at least as first, was Detective Andy Sipowicz (played by the great Dennis Franz), a fat, drunk, violent, foulmouthed bigot. In any earlier era, Sipowicz would have been a cautionary tale at best, but more likely a pure villain. Instead, he quickly became the show’s hero, and one of America’s. Viewers loved him. George Costanza and Homer Simpson wished they could be him. The Washington Post called him a “six-pack sex symbol.” I revered him so much that I began recapping every episode of the show, recording every Sipowitticism, and celebrating every time he got rough with a skell in the pokey room. (Each recap had a Line of the Week at the end; one was Andy telling a suspect, “I’m gonna get a migraine tonight because I didn’t beat you.” An inspiring moment, no?)

I’ve been thinking nearly as much about an afternoon spent reporting on a much less famous cop drama, albeit one from Sipowicz’s creators. In the fall of 1997, CBS premiered Brooklyn South, from the NYPD Blue team of Stephen Bochco and David Milch. Designed as a uniformed counterpart to the plainclothes-detective work of NYPD, it lacked the earlier show’s vivid characters, and lasted only a season. What it had, though, was the bad timing to debut with a storyline about a black man dying in police custody, only a few weeks after a quartet of real-life Brooklyn patrol cops brutally beat and sodomized security guard Abner Louima. The Brooklyn story had been written long before the attack on Louima, and the details were different — the show’s suspect had just murdered multiple cops and civilians in cold blood, and bled out from wounds suffered in the ensuing shootout — but the overlap was too big to ignore.

So when I shadowed a day of location filming in New York City, I of course asked the cast and crew for comment on Louima, alongside boilerplate questions about being a first-year series, their commitment to verisimilitude, etc. They were prepared for this, and their answers tended to cover three talking points: 1) the violence committed against Louima was horrific; 2) the officers involved had betrayed not only their oaths, but their upstanding fellow officers whose reputations would be stained by association; and 3) they worried that the show would suffer its own stain as a result. Bill Clark, the series’ technical advisor and a real-life NYPD legend who helped catch Son of Sam, summed it up by first acknowledging, “My initial thought was disbelief — what a horrible crime it was. To me, policemen are something special, and that shook me up.” Then he shifted into concern for the reputation of his new TV project, adding, “After it hit me, and I realized it was Brooklyn, I thought, ‘Why not the Bronx?'”

Clark and the Brooklyn South cast members weren’t the only ones framing the crimes committed by these cops as the actions of a few bad elements in an otherwise noble system. Most of my questions on the subject that day began with some version of, “Isn’t it terrible that this attack might make people think less of all the good guys who wear a badge?”

That is how a lifetime of watching cop shows had trained me to think. And I obviously wasn’t alone.

Since video footage of George Floyd’s killing by members of the Minneapolis PD went viral, there’s been a very public reckoning not only with American policing, but with fictionalized depictions of American policing. The deaths of Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Rayshard Brooks, and the many clips that followed of police officers assaulting peaceful protesters, have gone a long way toward undoing the conditioning of decades of televised stories of heroic cops. That it took a string of horrifying and ubiquitously filmed incidents to turn public sentiment is a testament to how thoroughly television had burnished the image of law enforcement officers as unassailable do-gooders.

Cowboys dominated TV in the Fifties and early Sixties. Many of them just happened to have tin stars affixed to their chests, the better to provide some legal framework for when they slapped leather and gunned down that week’s bad guy. Westerns were eventually put out to pasture, but the idea of lawmen cleaning up their communities by any means necessary remained pervasive. Other professions have fallen in and out of fictional fashion — spies were big for a while, then private detectives, then doctors — but cops are so enduring that characters from other genres often get squeezed into police procedurals when no one can think of a better idea for livening things up. (Not long ago, the Fox network simultaneously had Ichabod Crane, Frankenstein’s monster, and Lucifer helping out local law enforcement in different series.)

From Marshal Matt Dillon (Gunsmoke) to Marshal Raylan Givens (Justified), Sgt. Joe Friday (Dragnet) to Detective Vic Mackey (The Shield), television’s endless flood of cops has accomplished two things. Early on, it presented police officers as infallible heroes who are professionally and temperamentally equipped to handle any delicate situation. Then eventually, it began depicting less admirable cop behavior, but in ways that tended to explain it — and, after a while, to normalize it. These fictional stories have rewired many of us to assume cops are always acting in good faith, and to ignore or wave away those moments when they’re clearly not.

For the most part, cops on TV are depicted as unerring. Some of this is just the nature of the storytelling beast: Each episode (especially in the early days, when serialization was a dirty word for network executives) is meant to introduce a problem and solve it before the closing credits roll. But the most influential cop show of them all, Dragnet — featuring Jack Webb as the stentorian, no-nonsense Friday — was essentially made in a creative partnership with the LAPD, and was considered a valuable propaganda tool by officials of that department. Cops were to be valorized, their judgment unquestioned. This could be taken to such extremes in later series — say, Lt. Columbo immediately honing in on the murderer within moments of meeting him or her — that eventually, the messaging may have worked a little too well, even for law enforcement’s purposes. Prosecutors began complaining of a “CSI effect,” where jurors allegedly refused to convict with anything less than the mountain of evidence Gil Grissom and friends assembled thrice-weekly on CBS’ wildly popular crime franchise.

If Dragnet was designed in part to whitewash the actions of the real LAPD, its spiritual opposite from that era accomplished something similar, albeit for different reasons. Arguably the most admirable main character TV has ever seen is Andy Taylor from The Andy Griffith Show: a gentle, wise, friendly, superhumanly relaxed man who also happened to be sheriff of a small North Carolina town in the days of Jim Crow. Realizing that segregation would be too complicated and unpleasant a topic for a lighthearted fable of a series, Griffith and the show’s producers chose to sidestep the problem altogether. You might occasionally see a person of color as a background extra in the Mayberry town square, but they were almost never granted speaking parts, given all the questions that might be raised at a moment when other Southern sheriffs were turning dogs and firehoses on black citizens. The evening news provided one harsh image, and then primetime soothed us into thinking that all was well between everyday Americans and the armed men charged with protecting everyone equally, at least in theory, under the law. (Andy’s chief deputy, Barney Fife, is a bumbler who can’t be trusted to keep a bullet in his service weapon and doesn’t know what the Emancipation Proclamation was, but he is presented as a harmless and ultimately well-meaning goof. Brilliant as Don Knotts was in the role, it’s not hard to envision the real Barney Fifes of the day being far more malevolent.)

It wasn’t just that Dragnet and its imitators were training viewers to accept the judgment of police and prosecutors(*) in almost any situation, but that, as the narrator of Law & Order intoned at the start of each episode, “These are their stories.” We see the vast majority of these cases through the eyes of the men and women trying to provide justice. Victims and the falsely accused are usually afterthoughts, if dramatized at all, whereas we get unlimited time to spend with the cops, whom we grow to understand, like, and respect. Their goals, their personal problems, their families are the ones we are asked to care about, while everyone else is an abstraction(**).

(*) One of the most iconic characters of TV’s black-and-white era was defense attorney Perry Mason, who was forever proving that the LAPD was arresting the wrong people. Mason’s adventures could be seen as a dramatic counterbalance to Dragnet and company, but that perspective fell out of favor over time. The few relatively recent long-running series about lawyers who primarily handle criminal defense, like The Practice or How to Get Away with Murder, often revealed that seemingly innocent clients were in fact criminal masterminds who were subverting the justice system for their own ends. But Perry Mason is back — kind of (and in a series whose first episode featured a dirty cop stepping on a man’s neck in the process of murdering him) — so maybe the tide is set to turn on this kind of law show.

(**) Ironically, there’s evidence that audiences want more stories about victims and/or the wrongly imprisoned. Beyond Perry Mason, Sixties television was also home to The Fugitive, about a doctor who goes on the run after being framed for his wife’s murder. The series finale, where Dr. Richard Kimble finally clears his name and catches the real killer, was for years the most watched episode of television ever made. Law & Order: SVU, meanwhile, has become the longest-running drama in TV history while putting a bit more effort into showing what sexual assault victims go through than most cop series — even if one of its primary means of doing that was to make heroine Olivia Benson herself a victim. (It also paints a wildly unrealistic portrait of how many victims actually gain closure via the justice system.)

The inescapable police POV became an issue even as TV shows in the Eighties and Nineties began reexamining the hero mythology of their predecessors. Bochco and Milch’s Hill Street Blues depicted institutional rot at the core of its fictional city’s police department, and had a charismatic public defender, Joyce Davenport (Veronica Hamel), whose main function was to point out everything the cops were screwing up. (We were meant to like her, too, because she was the love interest of the sensitive, noble captain, Frank Furillo, played by Daniel J. Travanti.) François Truffaut once claimed that it’s impossible to make an antiwar film — that every cinematic treatment of the subject is inherently glorifying, and therefore winds up being pro-war. Hill Street Blues presented that argument in televised form: There were so many police characters, played by such a deep bench of terrific character actors, that viewers couldn’t help taking their sides, even when the cops messed up.

There’s a story arc from Hill Street‘s middle seasons involving Officer Mike Perez (played by Tony Perez), a glorified extra but someone familiar to any longtime viewer. Responding to a prowler call that turns out to be bogus(*), Perez sees a figure hiding behind a bed holding what looks like a gun, and opens fire, killing his would-be attacker. Then he finds out it’s just a young African American boy who was holding a toy pistol to feel safe while his impoverished mother (a young Alfre Woodard) was out at a job interview. The show acknowledges the saintly mother’s grief, as well as the absolute mess that department brass makes of the situation in a clumsy attempt to divert public outrage. Mostly, though, the story is a tragedy about poor Mike Perez, a nice guy tormented by an innocent mistake that any cop could have made. He has a breakdown, spends time in a mental hospital, and, after returning to work, stages a tenement fire so he can redeem himself by rescuing the family of squatters inside. Even that crime, while indefensible and bringing Perez’s police career to an ugly end, is presented lamentably — as a way to demonstrate the toll the job can take on good men if they’re not lucky or careful enough.

(*) There’s reference to a woman who calls 911 to exaggerate minor nuisances, which, like everything else about the story, feels terribly relevant to so much of what’s happening today.

Seventies and Eighties cop shows like Starsky & Hutch, Miami Vice, and Hunter had become more comfortable with showing detectives being violent with suspects, and bending, if not outright breaking, civil rights laws, in a manner meant to be celebrated. With NYPD Blue‘s Sipowicz, Bochco and Milch would push the outer edge of the envelope not just in terms of language and nudity (yes, we saw his ass once in the shower), but in terms of what behavior the audience would first accept, then cheer. Andy, for all his abundant flaws, was allowed an inner life that viewers never got from the perps he tuned up, and even his retrograde attitudes about race were presented with very delicate context. The one time he was heard using the N-word, for instance, he was volleying it back at a black community activist who had just thrown it at him. He was a bigot and a thug, but he was our bigot and thug. (Or, at least, he was for the show’s presumed white audience. Minority viewers, who have been much less surprised by the viral footage of the past few months, were likely not as charmed by Sipowicz and his imitators.)

The (white) public’s embrace of Sipowicz’s antiheroic qualities paved the way for shows with outright villains as main characters, like The Sopranos and Breaking Bad. But he also made possible series after series about cops who colored farther and farther outside the lines, and occasionally just melted crayons over the whole page. Two of this century’s best dramas were FX shows about renegade cops: The Shield and Justified. The former was the more extreme of the two: The Shield pilot ends with its corrupt lead detective, Michael Chiklis’ Vic Mackey, murdering an undercover officer who’d been assigned to investigate him. (A Shield fan wiki page, List of crimes by Vic Mackey, has a dozen additional entries under “Murder or accessory” before you get to the more mild categories like “Assault/torture,” “Theft,” and “Blackmail.”) Modern-day Justified cowboy Raylan Givens (Timothy Olyphant), in comparison, is about as clear-cut a good guy as you’re likely to find in the world of prestige cable drama — which means he spent a lot of time maneuvering criminals into circumstances where he’d be legally allowed to kill them. They are all presented as bad hombres whom the world is better off without, but Raylan is nonetheless electing himself to play judge, jury, and executioner on a regular basis.


I got such a rush from both of those shows, and found any excuse possible to write about them. Both feel very different now than they did at the time, though. Only a couple of weeks after the Minneapolis cops killed George Floyd, I was set to moderate a virtual reunion of the Justified cast and crew for the ATX Television Festival. Then many people involved in the event appeared to recognize that celebrating a show with that title, with a hero who considers himself above the law and finds any excuse he can to use his badge to administer lethal force to those he feels deserves it, would be in poor taste. The reunion was canceled.

The Shield was more candid about who and what Vic Mackey was(*) from the start, but the show also frequently put him in a position to play hero of last resort — the guy the clean cops turned to when the more honest approach simply wouldn’t work. This was Shield creator Shawn Ryan’s way of examining the enormous trust we place in law enforcement, and how that trust can so easily create bogeymen like Vic. But the protagonist problem applies just as well to shows about villains as it does to ones about heroes and antiheroes: We form attachments to the characters with whom we spend the most time, and we come to understand them and even root for them in ways we might not like, and that the creators may not have intended. (See also the “Skyler White is the true villain of Breaking Bad” truthers.) Like Jack Bauer from 24, Vic periodically found himself in situations where innocent people would die if he didn’t take extralegal measures to avert violence. Do that enough times, and it doesn’t matter how clearly and repeatedly you lay out his abundant sins; he’s the guy people are going to support, regardless of how much moral weight should be on the side of his opponents.

(*) The series ended in 2008 with Vic escaping legal punishment for all his crimes, but forced to work a humiliating desk job with ICE for years on end. It’s not hard at all to imagine Vic Mackey in 2020 as an ICE superstar, given what that agency has turned out to be.

And if there’s one thing hero and antihero cop shows have in common, it’s an extraordinary degree of skepticism toward “the rat squad” — a.k.a. the Internal Affairs detectives who claim to be searching for crooked cops, but on TV mainly seem to be opportunists making it harder for the honest ones to do their jobs. If we’re not meant to trust those who watch the watchmen, then we’re not meant to cast too harsh an eye on the people making traffic stops, drug busts, and routine arrests.

Even when series look at police abuses as an institutional problem rather than a collection of bad apples spoiling the whole bunch, they can only go so far. The Wire was rightly hailed for taking a broad view of the many failures of the War on Drugs and how it has wreaked havoc in minority communities. (More than any other police-adjacent series, the show in time would give equal weight to the cops, the criminals they chased, the politicians and media members who failed to improve things, and the kids and other innocent civilians caught in the War’s remorseless wake.) Nor was it willfully oblivious to the notion that seemingly admirable cops casually violate the law when they feel like it, as in an early moment where the noble Kima Greggs (Sonja Sohn) joins in on a savage beatdown of a suspect, or when brilliant investigator Lester Freamon (Clarke Peters) participates in a massive fraud to help fund one of his investigations.

But even The Wire had its limits when it came to telling everyone’s story. In the first season, inept, overconfident nepotism beneficiary Detective Roland “Prez” Pryzbylewski (Jim True-Frost), while drunk, responds to the faintest hint of disrespect from teenager Kevin Johnston (Jimmie Jelani Manners) by pistol-whipping the kid so badly, he blinds him in one eye. The show pauses to acknowledge that Kevin’s life has been irrevocably altered, but then he exits stage left, while Prez is granted a long and bumpy redemption arc. (After finding his niche as Lester’s apprentice, Prez fatally shoots a black undercover cop whom he mistakes for a suspect; while we also don’t know much about this victim, we follow Prez as he tries to atone for past sins in his new career as a nurturing middle school math teacher.) Prez and Perez are separated by a single letter. The Wire story arc was more prominent and more nuanced than the Hill Street Blues one, but in the end, the medium’s sympathies inevitably tilt towards those groups whose stories are told most.

Police dramas have long been my favorite genre of TV storytelling. I was the weird adolescent who videotaped Hill Street Blues reruns when they aired overnight on WPIX in New York; who began recapping NYPD Blue in part because there weren’t a lot of people in my sophomore year of college I could talk with about it; who can recite from memory all the original partner pairings from Homicide: Life on the Street. And right now, revisiting any of them makes me feel complicit. I had a queasy feeling in my stomach as I watched those Hill Street episodes to refresh my memory on the Mike Perez story. I knew going in that some aspects of one of TV’s most groundbreaking and emulated dramas wouldn’t have aged well (the retrograde sexism of many of the characters, a snickering sense of gallows humor), but the show was also much more unabashedly pro-cop than the agnostic message I recalled from watching it in high school. I think of all the Sipowicz head-smacks, all the Raylan Givens quips and quick-draws that I once applauded, and now cringe at the clichéd notion of the cop who plays by his own rules.

I may be an extreme case in both my past devotion to the form and my current discomfort, but I doubt it. There’s a reason cop stories have been so prominent for so long on the small screen, just as there’s a reason so many people seemed so flummoxed by the vision of real-life American policing that has taken shape during all of the Black Lives Matter protests this year. Surely, we kept saying, these cops must be the exception to the norm, and then these cops also have to be the exception, and these cops and these cops, until the cops whom we thought of as the norm — your straight arrows like Andy Taylor, Joe Friday, and Frank Furillo — start to seem like they are the real exception.

Cop stories have been television’s most renewable resource practically since there was television. But does the bottomless appetite for those stories still exist in a world where the phrase “All cops are bastards” has entered the mainstream? Some current shows seem relatively well-equipped to tell stories in this uncertain new reality, like SVU or CBS’ SWAT remake, which, under the guidance of creators Aaron Rahsaan Thomas and The Shield‘s Shawn Ryan, has already touched on the increasingly fragile relationship between cops and the communities they are sworn to protect. Others seem woefully ill-suited to deal with what’s happening. The NBC sitcom Brooklyn Nine-Nine has been one of my entertainment oases for years, and I’m not sure that show — whose lead(*), Andy Samberg‘s Jake Peralta, is an arrested-development case who got into policing because he loved Die Hard, and gets off on the fun-and-games aspect of the job — can stay true to its progressive spirit, grapple with the situation on the ground for cops in New York and elsewhere, and still manage to be funny. If it can, it would be an extraordinary achievement, but it’s also entirely possible that the series’ silly escapism will now seem, like that scrapped Justified panel, a relic of another time that seems wholly inappropriate in this one.

(*) It’s also worth noting that, with Andre Braugher’s Captain Holt, Brooklyn Nine-Nine is one of countless police shows to cast its most prominent actor of color as an authority figure, rather than a cop out working the streets and interacting more directly with the public. In fairness, Brooklyn also has one of the more inclusive casts of any network police show ever, but Braugher’s time as Homicide master interrogator Frank Pembleton still feels like a relative anomaly: a cop show whose dominant face was a nonwhite one. TV has gotten a bit better at this in recent years — Shemar Moore is the star of SWAT, for instance — but it’s not a coincidence that the genre has been typified by white male stars for so long. Even adopting a police POV becomes different when the police officers in question are black, like a classic Homicide moment where Pembleton is pressured to cover up what seems to be a police-involved shooting and pin the blame on a black civilian, or when Holt and Terry Crews’ Sgt. Jeffords have different reactions to Jeffords being racially profiled by a white officer.


When people say, “Defund the police,” they’re not calling for an end to all policing in America, but for a rethinking of law enforcement and the criminal justice system, and for a significant reallocation of resources to other social programs that won’t look at every problem as a nail to be solved with a hammer. Similarly, nobody’s calling for an end to cop shows. (Of late, I’ve been rewatching Monk for the first time in years; each episode feels like falling into a warm, extremely well-sanitized bath.) Rather, we need television to cast a wider net. We need more dramas that aren’t about cops, and we need the shows that are set in and around law enforcement to take a broader and more skeptical view. A great example would be something like OWN’s wonderful David Makes Man (now streaming on HBO Max), about an impoverished but smart black teen torn between his gifted-school program and the drug dealers working in his housing project. Like the Wire season that made Prez a teacher, David is police-adjacent, but it’s primarily focused on the kids prone to end up on drug corners rather than on the officers looking to throw them in jail. Beyond that, we could definitely use more shows that demonstrate non-police solutions to problems that pop culture traditionally associates with cops. (Since remaking old TV shows is all the rage, maybe it’s time for a modern version of the Sixties George C. Scott drama East Side/West Side, about New York social workers.)

In the past, more nuanced, interrogative looks at cops and/or the courts haven’t done very well commercially. Every few years, someone tries to make a new show about the Innocence Project (a legal nonprofit devoted to exonerating people who have been wrongfully convicted), which either doesn’t get on the air or is quickly canceled due to low ratings. (Before The Good Wife and The Good Fight, Robert and Michelle King co-created one of these, 2006’s In Justice, starring Kyle MacLachlan.) But that was when so many viewers wanted the fantasy of cops always being right, even if some had to do wrong things along the way. Many of us had blinkers on. Now, we’re seeing the full picture, and the idea of going back to the unquestioning valorization of men with badges seems impossible.

In one of NYPD Blue‘s most emotional storylines, Sipowicz prepares his estranged son Andy Jr. (Michael DeLuise) to join the family business as a cop in Hackensack, NJ. Andy Jr. will die trying to stop an armed robbery, but only after his father offers him a series of unofficial lectures on the unique challenges of their chosen profession. In one, the elder Sipowicz shows his son a street corner where three young black men are harassing all the honest, hard-working people who pass by. (Andy, having become more enlightened with each passing season, notes that the would-be muggers’ potential victims are also black, insisting, “I’m not talking about color here.”)

He explains how a patrolman should clear this corner, first with a firm request for the guys to leave, then with a threat of jail time, and then with quick use of his nightstick if all else fails. As father and son walk away to call some uniformed officers to actually clear the corner, Andy concludes the lesson by telling Andy Jr., “This is a good job for people like us. We don’t have a lot of education, but we can read and write, and we’re honest. Don’t ever embarrass this job.”

It’s a lovely, simple sentiment, the kind that Andy would have been ill-equipped to deliver when we first met him as a hard-drinking, crotch-grabbing, foul-mouthed goon. Like a lot of how cops have been depicted on television since the Fifties, the entire scene is a wildly romanticized view of the work — a view that was so appealing for me and so many others to take in, because it made the world make sense. But the world doesn’t make sense, and for too long now, too many real-life Sipowiczes have been brazenly and unapologetically embarrassing what television has presented their job to be.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 08:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "i love you for this. thank you for finding it. imma read it now"
In response to Reply # 6


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 08:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
20. "Sepinwall is my favorite TV critic."
In response to Reply # 6


          

I'm excited to read his spin on this. Thanks for posting.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15308 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 02:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
7. "This was one of the tougher aspects of the 2018 Spider-Man game"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

One of Peter's closest contacts is a police officer, and one of his primary goals is to help her re-connect the police to their surveillance network. In video game land, this makes absolute sense obviously - gate activities for the player to engage in behind fog on a map that is cleared up by completing a minor objective. But it's all muddied by the fact that it implies Spider-Man is complicit in putting up an autocratic umbrella over New York City, and to make it all worse he starts roleplaying as "Spider-Cop" while you're not-murdering people for relatively harmless crimes like selling weed.


It wound up feeling a little icky in a game that was otherwise a ton of good fun, and it would make the game a little harder to go back to than most hugely successful blockbusters, especially since the main storyline also revolves around a COVID-like virus spreading through Manhattan that takes the lives of some beloved characters from the Spider-Man universe along the way.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 08:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "that's really interesting...that's for adding the video game layer"
In response to Reply # 7


          

i hadn't thought of that as i'm not a gamer

but you're right...

d

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 03:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "I grew up on most of those shows and actually seriously considered..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

a career in law enforcement but I just happen to end up falling in love with computers before I was old enough to be a cop then I started comparing salaries and it was a wrap.

I still don't have a negative view of law enforcement overall. I have multiple family members and friends that work in law enforcement at all levels. It's a tough but necessary job. Yes I know the overall system is corrupt AF and needs to be completely overhauled but its one of those things that's easier said that done. Yes there are some POS racist cops that have no business near a badge and a gun. There are still actual crimes that occur every day and people that commit those crimes.

It sucks that everything is politicized and you have to be on one side or the other.

Its complicated.

I'm watching Miami Vice re-runs right now lol.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35865 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 08:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "RE: I grew up on most of those shows and actually seriously considered....."
In response to Reply # 10


          

>a career in law enforcement but I just happen to end up
>falling in love with computers before I was old enough to be a
>cop then I started comparing salaries and it was a wrap.

it makes sense cuz those shows greatly influence children's perceptions of policing.

>I still don't have a negative view of law enforcement overall.
>I have multiple family members and friends that work in law
>enforcement at all levels. It's a tough but necessary job.

Necessary is debateable, especially when you get into the weeds of "necessary for what?"

Yes
>I know the overall system is corrupt AF and needs to be
>completely overhauled but its one of those things that's
>easier said that done.

that's a bit of a contradiction tho. you can't acknowledge that the overall system is corrupt and needs to be overhauled while saying that you have no negative view of law enforcement.

Yes there are some POS racist cops that
>have no business near a badge and a gun.

do you know why? because those types overwhelmingly are drawn to the police force precisely because it gives them license to wield their hatred without accountability. that's been the case throughout the entire history of the police force, which began from slave patrolling. KKK members whose chapters were disbanded and outlawed turned to the police force and the military in droves.

If you study the history of the country you were born in, you might feel differently...no snark...being serious here.

>There are still actual crimes that occur every day and people that commit
>those crimes.

That is true. We've had this discussion before and you refuse to wrestle with the fact that there are two kinds of crime. You're talking about person to person crime. What do the police do for white collar crimes, which actually harm far more people? (bribes, insider trading, wage theft, fraud)


But if you want to just look at person to person crime...its mainly a function of poverty, lack of access to jobs and education. If/when we address the root causes of crime, the police become less necessary.


>It sucks that everything is politicized and you have to be on
>one side or the other.
>
>Its complicated.


Yeah, it is very complicated. But to be clear, fairness and equity is the antidote to politicized..that buzzword just means that some shit isn't fair for everyone. So you're basically buying into the fact that equity doesn't matter if you're bemoaning how "everything is politicized"...

d

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 08:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
22. "Seriously scream all of this from every rooftop in this shithole country..."
In response to Reply # 21


          

>>a career in law enforcement but I just happen to end up
>>falling in love with computers before I was old enough to be
>a
>>cop then I started comparing salaries and it was a wrap.
>
>it makes sense cuz those shows greatly influence children's
>perceptions of policing.
>
>>I still don't have a negative view of law enforcement
>overall.
>>I have multiple family members and friends that work in law
>>enforcement at all levels. It's a tough but necessary job.
>
>Necessary is debateable, especially when you get into the
>weeds of "necessary for what?"
>
> Yes
>>I know the overall system is corrupt AF and needs to be
>>completely overhauled but its one of those things that's
>>easier said that done.
>
>that's a bit of a contradiction tho. you can't acknowledge
>that the overall system is corrupt and needs to be overhauled
>while saying that you have no negative view of law
>enforcement.
>
>Yes there are some POS racist cops that
>>have no business near a badge and a gun.
>
>do you know why? because those types overwhelmingly are drawn
>to the police force precisely because it gives them license to
>wield their hatred without accountability. that's been the
>case throughout the entire history of the police force, which
>began from slave patrolling. KKK members whose chapters were
>disbanded and outlawed turned to the police force and the
>military in droves.
>
>If you study the history of the country you were born in, you
>might feel differently...no snark...being serious here.
>
>>There are still actual crimes that occur every day and people
>that commit
>>those crimes.
>
>That is true. We've had this discussion before and you refuse
>to wrestle with the fact that there are two kinds of crime.
>You're talking about person to person crime. What do the
>police do for white collar crimes, which actually harm far
>more people? (bribes, insider trading, wage theft, fraud)
>
>
>But if you want to just look at person to person crime...its
>mainly a function of poverty, lack of access to jobs and
>education. If/when we address the root causes of crime, the
>police become less necessary.
>
>
>>It sucks that everything is politicized and you have to be
>on
>>one side or the other.
>>
>>Its complicated.
>
>
>Yeah, it is very complicated. But to be clear, fairness and
>equity is the antidote to politicized..that buzzword just
>means that some shit isn't fair for everyone. So you're
>basically buying into the fact that equity doesn't matter if
>you're bemoaning how "everything is politicized"...
>
>d

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Castro
Charter member
50751 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 10:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "RE: I grew up on most of those shows and actually seriously considered....."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

excellent summation.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Fri Sep-25-20 08:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "The creator of Cops said white collar crime is boring to film"
In response to Reply # 21


          

viewers don’t want to see a guy in a suit do a perp walk

They want to see a guy who stole a pack of zigzags get chased thru a backyard and hide under a porch at night.

Nevermind the white collar crime impacts hundreds of thousands of people.

It’s all bullshit.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Sep-25-20 08:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "I agree on some points..."
In response to Reply # 21


          

> Yes
>>I know the overall system is corrupt AF and needs to be
>>completely overhauled but its one of those things that's
>>easier said that done.
>
>that's a bit of a contradiction tho. you can't acknowledge
>that the overall system is corrupt and needs to be overhauled
>while saying that you have no negative view of law
>enforcement.

I agree that it is definitely a contradiction and I struggled with that while typing it out.

>Yes there are some POS racist cops that
>>have no business near a badge and a gun.
>
>do you know why? because those types overwhelmingly are drawn
>to the police force precisely because it gives them license to
>wield their hatred without accountability. that's been the
>case throughout the entire history of the police force, which
>began from slave patrolling. KKK members whose chapters were
>disbanded and outlawed turned to the police force and the
>military in droves.
>
>If you study the history of the country you were born in, you
>might feel differently...no snark...being serious here.

I hear that but without going too deep this country if full of POS racists and police is just one of the occupations they hold that is highly problematic. Judges are another. They actually give police their "power".


>>There are still actual crimes that occur every day and people
>that commit
>>those crimes.
>
>That is true. We've had this discussion before and you refuse
>to wrestle with the fact that there are two kinds of crime.
>You're talking about person to person crime. What do the
>police do for white collar crimes, which actually harm far
>more people? (bribes, insider trading, wage theft, fraud)
>
>
>But if you want to just look at person to person crime...its
>mainly a function of poverty, lack of access to jobs and
>education. If/when we address the root causes of crime, the
>police become less necessary.

I know plenty of poor people and most of them have never robbed and killed anyone. But you pick up a newspaper in any major metropolitan area and there's going to be significant crime. What do we do with that? If we do away with police are those people going to magically go away like 45 said COVID would?

If someone snatches your purse when you're leaving work today who are you going to call? If someone steals your car tonight who are you going to call? Ghostbusters?

Its fun to be all revolutionary behind a keyboard but we live in a real world and every modern developed society around the world has law enforcement.


>Yeah, it is very complicated. But to be clear, fairness and
>equity is the antidote to politicized..that buzzword just
>means that some shit isn't fair for everyone. So you're
>basically buying into the fact that equity doesn't matter if
>you're bemoaning how "everything is politicized"...

I'm not "bemoaning" anything. Law enforcement is unnecessarily politicized. Mask-wearing is unnecessarily politicized. Every time a major issue comes up both sides race to claim it as their issue and force the other to appear to be against it.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 07:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "Copaganda is a real thing"
In response to Reply # 0


          

American television will always has multiple cop shows, hospital shows and legal shows...as the country with the largest prison population, worst healthcare and most unaffordable legal system.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 07:49 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "fuck em."
In response to Reply # 0


          

thats all i know.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Castro
Charter member
50751 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 08:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "I've been calling that shit 'Copaganda' for two decades."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-24-20 08:23 PM by Castro

  

          

You can expand this list to include all of the movies where a main character or theme involves a crime or law enforcement.

Star Wars involves law enforcement....what are storm troopers?

Even the Marvel Universe is centered around policing 'villains'.


Cops and Robbers replaced Cowboys and Indians.



------------------
One Hundred.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 08:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
14. "I've never been into cop shows."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-24-20 08:17 PM by Brew

          

Or military movies/shows, for that matter. From the list you posted, I love The Wire (which I don't really consider a "cop show" for the purposes of this discussion, but can understand why you listed it), and enjoyed Bad Boys well enough (though I probably haven't seen either of the movies since like 2004 or so).

But cops shows in general never did it for me. And to that end I don't really have a frame of reference to contribute to this conversation as it pertains to how realistic or unrealistic they may be.

But I listened to a couple podcasts recently that shed some light on how these shows have obviously always been very pro-cop, and how they sort of glorified policing to a general public who may not have cared otherwise, (one of them being "Behind the Police" which I recommend to everyone, really good informational pod about police from their inception to the present) which solidified that I'd been right have never paid any attention to them lol.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mynoriti
Charter member
38821 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 11:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "i always appreciated how the Wire detectives had no gunplay"
In response to Reply # 14
Fri Sep-25-20 12:01 AM by Mynoriti

  

          

or even drew their weapons. the one exception being prezbo shooting a black cop who he mistook for a perp.

for sure hard to classify as a 'cop show' but it got pretty deep into police culture from bureaucracy inside and up high to how it viewed brutality on the street as largely standard/uneventful, to mundane day to day shit. It wasn't anti-cop per say but it undermined soo many police show tropes.

comparing it to something like Southland (which i did like) you had them getting in shootouts every other week. I don't know how many people Regina King shot or chased as a detective lol.

overall i've always liked cop shows (shit i love the show Cops), but i feel like i compartmentalize tho. I don't look at Cops in real life like they're the same ones even in the so-called reality series because my personal experience with them has been more negative than positive pretty much ever since i was old enough that they stopped giving me baseball cards..

however much of the tv show stuff seeped into my subconscious though, who knows

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Fri Sep-25-20 08:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "Loved Southland.. because who doesn’t like seeing Regina King"
In response to Reply # 27


          

run folks down and talk shit?

but the Wire was the truth because it showed the back room dealings, stat manipulation, shady shit cops and higher ups do in order to get over.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

rdhull
Charter member
33137 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 10:42 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "Police Academy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
13770 posts
Thu Sep-24-20 10:56 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "What Gets Me Is How Every Network Thinks They Need A Cop Show"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I've always been a tv watcher since I was a kid, and I've always noticed how the major networks (ABC, CBS, CW, Fox, & NBC) have cop, lawyer, private eye, forensics, & firemen type shows; and not one but at least three to six shows a week so to have at least one show shown each night.

And with all of them, each show cops in a good positive light, even when it's a few that go overboard with their tactics to find/catch the criminal, and how everyone is a suspect and is guilty until proven innocent even though for decades they always say & tell people the opposite, smh; or the one detective who didn't go by the rules and had an unorthodox way of finding information

Yeah I remember C.H.I.P.s, Starsky & Hutch, Hill Street Blues, Airwolf, Blue Thunder, Cagney & Lacey, Magnum P.I., Barney Miller, Dragnet, Columbo, Shaft, Kojak, Andy Griffith Show, Mission Impossible, Charlie's Angels, Hunter, Hart To Hart, Simon & Simon, Miami Vice, 21 Jump Street, NY Undercover, Spencer For Hire, The Equalizer, NCIS, Law & Order, CSI and all of those spin-off shows for NCIS, L&O, CSI, Homicide, Bones, Blue Bloods, Hawaii Five O, Monk, Major Crimes, The Closer, Medium, Crossing Jordan, Chicago PD, Chicago Fire, Rookie, Blindspot, etc. and let us not forget the real live shows like Cops, 48 Hours/First 48, & Live PD.

The list just goes on & on, once in a while you will find a show like "The Following" where it kind of shows the dark side of being a cop & investigator who trying to catch a serial killer who always escape every episode, and then you have a show like "Blacklist" where you have an international mobster who works with the FBI/CIA to catch his old ex-buddies to stay out of jail, or better yet comedy cop shows which shows like "Brooklyn Nine Nine" but no matter what these shows do it's still just another cop/police show.

Out of all these shows once in a blue moon they might just "might" spotlight on a crooked or racist cop, or the true reality of how it's more negative things going on with the police than positive when interacting with the public.

I will say even with cop/police movies it's the same thing, and I'm a sucker for anything Bruce Willis is in, and a big fan of the Die Hard movies even though no and I mean NO cop will ever go thru or go that hard in the paint to keep people from dying or to save a city from terrorists, but I think that's why many of us like actors like Bruce or Steven Seagal when they star in a movie, even though it's so unlike reality.


https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16415 posts
Fri Sep-25-20 04:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "gotta say real life framed my point of view on cops much more than tv"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i do have vague happy memories about chips. i did watch cops, unsolved mysteries and some other related stuff growing up.

when your dad is hiding in the house or on the roof to avoid a warrant tv doesnt really hit the same.

when youre in a car watching cops point rifles and eventually take money from and hit your dad and uncles for some reason you dont find yourself rooting for the cops. i cant call it.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

naame
Charter member
21018 posts
Fri Sep-25-20 04:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "Another aspect is how the local news primes viewers to associate "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The fictionalized cop dramas with real world policing


America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
poetx
Charter member
58856 posts
Sun Sep-27-20 05:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "ALL this shit is entertainment to them. i *hate* local news. nm"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13575 posts
Fri Sep-25-20 07:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "I grew up on Andy Griffith show, an I realized early that Barney..."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Sep-25-20 07:11 PM by flipnile

          

...Fife would pull me over, search through my car, rough me up and probably make-up some charges to throw me in jail. Or straight-up run me out of his sundown town.

Cops were always "the other" to me, once I got to age six or so and started hearing stories from my family and elders. I'm tall, so they started gritting on me when I was like 10-11yo. Didn't really have a chance to see them in a positive light.

Wasn't just cop shows, there were many sitcoms that I watched that seemed like a world for someone else, but not for me.



Edit: My mom was a fan of the Andy Griffith show, so I watched it with her. I ain't that old, lol.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Walleye
Charter member
15523 posts
Mon Sep-28-20 09:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "You've got a ... multivocal lineup there"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's obviously not an exhaustive list, but it's fascinating how diverse the messaging is with these in spite of that. Propaganda (i'd like to retrieve this word and return it's value-neutral meaning) demonstrating the value that police provide a stable society probably wasn't going to make it past the 60s and 70s if it remained uncritically supportive of policing, even in the mainstream.

Some of these work on a pure good/evil level, where the valor of the cops matches, proportionately, the wild danger of the evil. They're basically westerns without the cowboys. A clear hero and a clear villain and the rest of us, perfectly innocent and so exposed to whatever the result of this struggle is. Thinking of CHiPS and Hawaii 5-0 and, given the INSANE scope of the villain's power, the Bad Boys franchise as well.

Some of these work because they permit a certain degree of moral ambiguity in the job of the police, so they are effective to the degree that they can show cop seriously engaging with those ambiguities. Maybe some wall-punching or binge drinking or exasperation at the bureaucracy that doesn't permit them to simply punish people based on their suspicions. I hate these ones because they're stealing hardboiled fiction's conflicted anti-hero staple, but filtering it through police characters even though in most hardboiled fiction it's explicitly understood that police exist to protect race and class hierarchies. In addition to screwing with my favorite books, this one is also big trouble because white men just like me are pretty vulnerable to the pretend emotional complexity of these. It's a really nice way to think of yourself - that you are sacrificing moral purity and surrendering a personal peace and stability in order to do the tough work that needs to be done, so that other people (lesser people, burdened only with working their regular jobs and loving their regular families) can keep that purity, peace, and stability. Throw all the gritty ones in this, like NYPD Blue and especially the character-based Law & Order franchises like SVU and CI. I'd include The Wire here, though the saving grace of that show isn't in the way it treats cops, but in the way that it treats regular people who are basically props in other gritty cop shows.

Robocop is a really interesting inclusion because it's premised entirely on a pretty sharp, and definitely not-at-all subtle criticism of policing. I mean, Detroit literally sells its police force to Omni Consumer Products because the high crime rate is now a threat to profit. That's ... GRIM. But I remember reading a perfect description of Paul Verhoeven a couple years ago that fits Robocop as well as any of his work: he takes trenchant social satire and stuffs it into movies that are made for 13 year old boys. So, I saw Robocop on VHS when I was like ten and thought it was a movie about a badass robot who fights crime. And I saw it again when I was 40 and saw a sharp parody that predicted the direction of 21st century policing decades ago.

Something I watched recently drove home how fast this kind of change in attitude can move was not a cop movie, but it had a ton of cops in it: Harlan County, USA. If you aren't familiar (and if you are - apologies, didn't want to assume anything) it's about the 1973 Brookside coal miners strike in eastern Kentucky. It's amazing to me that these white men, young and old, who couldn't be characterized as socially liberal in any meaningful way, speaking to each other on the picket line about the cops monitoring them with absolute disgust. Just incredulous that anybody with self-respect would take a job that clearly exists just to make sure rich people can get richer at the detriment of a community of working people. They're seen as hired security for scabs and treated with utter contempt. Really weird to wonder how many of their grandkids have blue lives matter stickers on their trucks in 2020, especially after the women in the movie make it extremely clear that "pro union/anti-cop" is, to them, a matter of being raised properly.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6574 posts
Sat Oct-10-20 08:00 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "&quot;The Myth of the Good Cop&quot; Essay from Abolition for the People..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-10-20 08:01 AM by navajo joe

          

From Kap's Abolition for the People Series: https://level.medium.com/abolition-for-the-people-397ef29e3ca5



https://level.medium.com/pop-culture-helped-turn-police-officers-into-rock-stars-and-black-folks-into-criminals-1ac9e3faffa1


The Myth of the Good Cop: Pop Culture Helped Turn Police Officers Into Rock Stars — And Black Folks Into Criminals

Exploring how copaganda empowers law enforcement to terrorize with impunity

By Mark Anthony Neal

This article is part of Abolition for the People, a series brought to you by a partnership between Kaepernick Publishing and LEVEL, a Medium publication for and about the lives of Black and Brown men. The series, which comprises 30 essays and conversations over four weeks, points to the crucial conclusion that policing and prisons are not solutions for the issues and people the state deems social problems — and calls for a future that puts justice and the needs of the community first.
Ifyou’re of a certain age — the last of the boomers or the first cohort of Generation X — and grew up Black and urban, you may have a tendency to romanticize the cops who used to walk the beat. The boys in blue who knew everyone in the neighborhood. Truth be told, the officers I most remember from my years growing up in the South Bronx were white do-gooders who appeared on TV in the 1970s. Back then, I was oblivious to the criminalization of Black bodies, the anti-Black violence that was propagated by the law enforcement community writ large, or the ideological framing about who and what the police were. I was unaware of the copaganda that pop culture had served up to an unsuspecting public for generations.

Copaganda — the reproduction and circulation in mainstream media of propaganda that is favorable to law enforcement — has long been a tool to disrupt legitimate claims of anti-Black violence. Simply put, copaganda actively counters attempts to hold police malfeasance accountable by reinforcing the ideas that the police are generally fair and hard-working and that Black criminals deserve the brutal treatment they receive. Such cultural framing has been critical to buttressing the need for a more expansive criminal justice system that fuels mass incarceration.

When I was a kid, my father worked six days a week, 12 hours a day. He spent his downtime listening to gospel quartets and watching police and private detective dramas that played in the NBC Mystery Movie programming rotation: shows like McMillan & Wife, McCloud, and Columbo. I suppose that my father, a Black, undereducated, working-class man from the South, was drawn to the kind of folksy, down-home characters featured in these shows, in part because he found them to be comforting as examples of respectability that would be available to his young son.
The shows were often comical and pivoted on innocuous notions of morality, where “good” always won out over “bad” (the criminals were rarely “evil” on 1970s television in the ways that so-called Middle Eastern “terrorists” were portrayed in the 1980s). McCloud, for example, was a fish-out-of-water detective from the Southwest who brought his style of policing to the “big city” (he’d often chase “criminals” on horseback). Columbo, which aired intermittently for more than three decades, hinged on the “genius” of a dusty, rumpled gumshoe who constantly looked as if he’d just fallen out of bed to solve a case.
While those shows endeared law enforcement to the public, other programming from the era was more intentional in its messaging. Another staple on my dad’s television was The F.B.I., a show that saw actor Efrem Zimbalist Jr. — a Goldwater Republican — acting out scripts vetted by the actual FBI, which in real life was laying waste to a generation of Black freedom fighters and their organizations. FBI director J. Edgar Hoover architected COINTELPRO, which used various forms of disruption, including infiltration and violence, to undermine civil rights, anti-war, Native, and white radical organizations. Hoover famously identified the Black Panther Party as the biggest threat to American society; The F.B.I. was monumental in swaying the public at a time when “law and order” was a rallying cry.

I also enjoyed watching the short-lived series S.W.A.T. (the inspiration for the 2003 Samuel L. Jackson film of the same name) and syndicated episodes of Adam-12, both of which were set in Los Angeles. No more than 10 or 11 years old at the time, I fancied myself as S.W.A.T.’s Dominic Luca (Mark Shera) and rookie officer Jim Reed (Kent McCord) from Adam-12. Little did I know that the SWAT (Special Weapons and Tactics) unit had been designed in the mid-1960s by Los Angeles Police Department inspector Darryl Gates in the aftermath of the Watts Riots of 1965.
Intended as the police force’s militarized arm that could address criminal situations that needed quick and potentially violent resolution — such as snipers and the taking of hostages — SWAT teams became a means to address urban protest. Not surprisingly, one of the first uses of SWAT was an attack on the Black Panther Party’s L.A. headquarters in December 1969, in which more than 300 officers took on 13 Black Panther members (more than half of whom were women and children). The attack occurred only days after a similar police raid in Chicago that killed Fred Hampton and Mark Clark, in what poet Haki Madhubuti called a “one-sided shootout.” Both incidents highlight the close relationship between local law enforcement and the FBI in the period.

The show Adam-12 featured the Rampart Division of the LAPD, which two decades after the show’s debut would become the basis of a police corruption case involving the Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums (CRASH) unit. Also conceived of by Gates, CRASH intimately connected to the police brutality narratives heard in gangsta rap of the late 1980s and 1990s in songs like Toddy Tee’s “Batterram” and N.W.A’s “Fuck the Police.” In the case of CRASH, the narrative of urban radicals had shifted to concerns about the “war on drugs” during an era when crack cocaine was being introduced to Black and Brown urban communities. Aside from the examples in rap music, most Americans were unaware of these efforts until the release of the 1988 film Colors, in which Robert Duvall and Sean Penn portrayed CRASH officers.

The irony was that the affable Dominic Luca and Jim Reed of the shows S.W.A.T. and Adam-12, respectively, were the public faces of the LAPD in an era in which its figureheads like Gates — who became the very symbol of racist policing in the post-civil rights era — were creating apparatuses that would have dramatic and traumatic impacts on Black communities for decades. These contradictory realities speak to how palpable copaganda was as a resource to influence public opinion and thus public policy regarding law enforcement.

With the exception of the ensemble casts of the sitcom Barney Miller and the melodrama Hill Street Blues, Black officers were largely missing as primary characters in the narratives of the ’70s and ’80s, a dearth that reflected the lack of diversity in station houses in the period. Charles Barnett’s 1994 film The Glass Shield, for example, fictionalized a real-life attempt to integrate a Los Angeles area sheriff’s office. Black novelists filled in the gaps, though. Chester Himes’ Harlem Detectives series featured Grave Digger Jones and Coffin Ed Johnson, two detectives who became more prominent when they were depicted by Godfrey Cambridge and Raymond St. Jacques, respectively, in 1970’s Ossie Davis-directed film Cotton Comes to Harlem and Come Back, Charleston Blue two years later.

In Raymond Nelson’s 1972 essay on Himes’ detective novels, he describes Grave Digger and Coffin Ed as “bad niggers” — symbols of “defiance, strength, and masculinity to a community that has been forced to learn, or at least to shame weakness and compliance.” And indeed, on-screen, Cambridge and St. Jacques’ performances of the duo were given the gravitas of “race men” — these figures, often men, within Black life and culture who were committed to the “race”; they didn’t simply acquiesce to the white power structure that employed them but also offered a healthy skepticism of ghetto hustlers while using their badges and relative privilege to look out for the “least of” in Black Harlem. The extent to which Grave Digger and Coffin Ed were depicted as being embedded in the very fabric of Black Harlem was a refreshing counter to the drive-by treatments of Black life found in most film and television in the era, particularly with regards to law enforcement.

The 1991 film A Rage in Harlem, a third of Himes’ detective novels to be adapted for the big screen, found Grave Digger and Coffin Ed on the periphery of the film’s focus, as if it were a metaphor for the cultural shifts that had seemingly occurred in the previous two decades. In many ways, Grave Digger and Coffin Ed were precursors to the Black-White cop buddy films of the 1980s — think Danny Glover and Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon, or 48 Hours, in which Eddie Murphy played a petty criminal working with a detective (Nick Nolte). Whereas the idea of cop buddy films with two Black actors were not tenable to Hollywood at the time — and would not be until the Bad Boys franchise — the Black-White cop buddy films were more marketable given the success of films like The Defiant Ones (Sidney Poitier and Tony Curtis) and the Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder films of the 1970s and 1980s.

Notable about these films, including the Bad Boy franchise with Will Smith and Martin Lawrence, is the way that Black officers were largely evacuated from Black life and community. Though Glover played a family man in Lethal Weapon, there was nothing inherently Black about his life. (In fact, Gibson played the role of the rogue cop.) This could also be seen in the television series NYPD Blue, where James McDaniels portrayed Lt. Arthur Fancy for the series’ first eight seasons, yet there was little attention to his life outside of the precinct. The Law and Order franchise reveals little about the backstory of numerous Black officers played by the likes of Jesse L. Martin, Anthony Anderson, and Ice-T, who has portrayed Sgt. Odafin “Fin” Tutuola for nearly 20 years.

The aforementioned fictional officers exist in contrast to Boyz n the Hood’s Officer Coffey, a Black cop (played by Jessie Lawrence Ferguson) whose disdain for Black youth is palpable. Denzel Washington’s Oscar-winning performance as Alonzo Harris in Training Day is yet another example of a character who is allowed to reign terror on a Black community due to the faulty logic of Black-on-Black crime and the benign neglect directed toward poor and working-class communities of color that renders those communities as complicit in their own pathologies. In such instances, it seems Blacks and others do not deserve to be protected and served.

That such characters were featured in films by Black directors (John Singleton and Antoine Fuqua, respectively) doesn’t change the fact that in much of popular culture, Black officers are no longer race men at all — but, rather, stand-ins for the very anti-Black violence directed at Black communities. As a whole, these characters are complements to the purposes of copaganda, serving as examples of Black exceptionalism on the one hand while suggesting that policing is race-neutral but criminality is not.

Yet the more things change, the more they stay the same. Those beat cops on Adam-12 that I once idolized as a kid now sit comfortably around the Sunday dinner table as three generations of officers on the police drama Blue Bloods. Thoughtful, introspective, and devoted to God, family, and the law — who wouldn’t want them to protect and serve?

Mark Anthony Neal is James B. Duke Professor at Duke University. His writing has appeared in the Washington Post, NPR, The Root, The Undefeated & other outlets.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby General Discussion topic #13404836 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com