This is the original tweet:
https://twitter.com/TorraineWalker/status/1306201341837152256
(You can't be pro-Black and hate straight Black men.)

He subsequently tweeted this video about some of the responses to the video:
https://twitter.com/TorraineWalker/status/1306587069330993152
(It addresses the fact that Black people who work in academia and media saying they hate Black men and why that's disturbing.)


He then wrote the following on his site:

Divided Houses.
PUBLISHED SEPTEMBER 23, 2020 by TORRAINE WALKER

One tweet in support of Black men ignited a social media firestorm. Time to explore the conditions and mindsets that made anti-Black misandry acceptable.

Last Wednesday morning I made a statement on Twitter:
You can't be pro-Black and hate straight Black men

It was not said to ignore or attack any other part of the Black collective. It was a straightforward response to the hostility I see thrown at straight Black men on social media. I thought nothing more of it until my phone began to buzz later that afternoon. By the end of the day, the tweet had gone viral. A week later, and that ten-word tweet has been seen by nearly a million people, liberating some, enraging others, exposed the true feelings of many Black gatekeepers, and sparked a conversation about the status of Black men in social justice and political spaces.

That conversation is long overdue, because the attitudes towards Black men in those spaces is poisonous.

Spend any time on Black twitter-especially the section known as “woke” twitter-and you will see a pattern emerge. At least twice a week, someone will post something slanderous about straight Black men that will go viral within hours. It is not harmless banter between men and women, but false statements about our collective guilt and wishes for straight Black men to die, usually by police violence. When challenged, the people doing this default to talking points stitched together from bits and pieces of the work of bell hooks and Kimberlé Crenshaw and half-remembered gender studies lectures or some canned slander about straight Black men as a group being the weak or homophobic when the truth doesn’t match the rhetoric.

It’s easy to create a narrative on social media, all you need are the right buzzwords and you’re in business. The dominant narrative when it comes to straight Black men is that they’re all useless at best and privileged, potential predators at worst.

But the data doesn’t bear this out:

Black men and boys are at the bottom of every American socioeconomic metric. A Black man is twice as likely to be stopped by police than a black woman, and Black men have a 1 in 3 chance of being in prison at some point in their lives, compared to a 1 in 18 chance for Black women.

Black men make up 34% of America’s jail and prison inmates while Black women make up 29%.

The numbers from the National Institute of Health’s Intimate Partner Violence study paint a mutually unpleasant picture with 45% of Black women and 40% of Black men surveyed reporting sexual violence physical abuse or stalking by an intimate partner.

Between 2014 and 2019 1,608 Black men have been killed during encounters with police. In the same time period, 46 Black women have been killed.

None of this is meant to disregard the pain of those who suffered trauma by individual Black men, but these are the actions of individuals, not a collective. To claim otherwise plays into the hands of the white supremacists these “pro-Black” people claim to be fighting.

One of the most disturbing reactions to the tweet was seeing people who have jobs in news, academia and politics agreeing with people who said they hate Black men. What are they teaching the students they’ve been educating? How are news stories about issues affecting Black people being shaped? What does it say that these people feel secure enough to spout hateful, dangerous rhetoric with no fear of professional consequences?

When it comes to Black males, social media is proof of Malcolm X’s quote about how the media will have you hating the oppressed and loving the oppressor. The rapid-fire nature of information delivery in that space means that it doesn’t matter if something is true as long people want to believe it.

There are predatory and toxic men in the Black community. There are toxic women and LGBTQ individuals in the Black community. But the collective can’t be demonized for the actions of individuals. Predators need to be held accountable and it is tragic that damaged people are further victimized by opportunists ready to exploit their pain. But an even greater tragedy would be to allow the lies about straight Black men to go unchallenged and become the baseline for young Black men looking for information about themselves.

https://contextmediagroup.com/divided-houses/?utm_content=bufferbd12c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


What are the OKP thoughts on this?

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

i have to say though that is some social media engineered shit. the only folks run into spitting that rhetoric IRL are the ones that live on social media. the rest of us look at them like the nuts that thye are.

<--- Big Baller World Order

>i have to say though that is some social media engineered
>shit. the only folks run into spitting that rhetoric IRL are
>the ones that live on social media.


It really does seem that way.


>the rest of us look at
>them like the nuts that thye are.


Lol right

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

at best it's an ineffective form of communication.

At worst, I don't even have the words for it.

Niggas put way to much stock into that shit

I'm almost at the point where if you the type of nigga that go back and forth with randos on Twitter all day, I don't even engage with you

I was on Twitter from 2009 to 2018 or so. I find it wholly useless at this point and a series of echo chambers where people share the same insights with one another and viciously attack anyone who deviates from the party line.

And yeah there is some heavy vitriol aimed at straight (cis) Black men.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

Adopting anti black rhetoric regarding black womens bodies and hair

Colorism

Capitalist politics

Homophobia

domestic violence rates are pretty insane

Oftentimes black men choose their masculinity over their blackness because thats the only social capital they have. (masculinity being greed, violence, emotional immaturity)

These are valid reasons to be angry at black men, and i think that anger gets warped into something else, especially when you have an online community hyping up your darkest thoughts.

There's a major shift going on in gender relations and the more you cling to this binary idea of victimhood (black men are oppressed, therefore aren't capable of being oppressive) the more you'll focus on the outliers of black women that are being extreme instead of really understanding where they're coming from.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

this is yet another discussion that I do not think human beings are capable of having without introducing bias or an agenda. There is truth in both positions and the base statement/question is the wrong one to be asking.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

You could say there are valid critiques of Black women.
You could subsequently name a list of unfavorable actions committed by the lowest common denominators among them.
Then you could just say that those who are upset about it are simply "clinging to a binary idea of victimhood instead of really understanding where extreme Black men are coming from."
That's not only a counter-productive way to have a conversation, but also unfair to whichever group you apply it to.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

If the critiques are made in a way that is devoid of historical context, empathy, and an understanding of power dynamics, then thats when the conversation is no longer productive.

That's why looking at actual statistics and the media we consume is helpful, because it helps us look outside of our anecdotes.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

>If the critiques are made in a way that is devoid of
>historical context, empathy, and an understanding of power
>dynamics, then thats when the conversation is no longer
>productive.


These are exactly the kinds of critiques being made about Black men.


>That's why looking at actual statistics and the media we
>consume is helpful, because it helps us look outside of our
>anecdotes.


I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. Are you saying your intial reply is backed by actual statistics? If so, please share said statistics for each of your points, because most of what you said sounds very anecdotal. If I'm off base, let me know.
I don't know how media consumption is relevant to the point, so I'll let you elaborate.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

>If the critiques are made in a way that is devoid of
>historical context, empathy, and an understanding of power
>dynamics, then thats when the conversation is no longer
>productive.
>

You could say the same thing about comments about Black men without this same context and empathy. This is wildly circular.


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

>Adopting anti black rhetoric regarding black womens bodies
>and hair

This is a lie, black men love black women's bodies and hair, as they naturally occur, and this sentiment is only brought up when we criticize black women attempting to become more eurocentric in their look. And somehow that's anti-black?

>
>Colorism

Black women are just as colorist and black men get criticized regardless of whether we praise light-skinned black women or dark-skinned black women (see Dr. Umar for example).

>
>Capitalist politics

Black men are criticized for engaging in the capitalist political system but then when we suggest divesting from that system for the betterment of all black people then we get criticized for sabotaging our political standing (see Tariq Nasheed, Ice Cube, Cornell West).

>
>Homophobia
>

Black men are less homophobic than black women, and any other group for that matter, and most of the homophobic/transphobic violence yall cite is committed by other members of the lgbt community. Also, ain't nobody scared of gay people so "homophobia" as a concept is an overblown misnomer designed to propagate harm towards black men, but that's a different conversation.

>domestic violence rates are pretty insane

Nobody deserves to be the victim of intimate partner violence, especially women, but the methadology of compiing these types of statistics leaves a lot to be desired and there are plenty of black male victims of intimate partner violence that either goes unreported or is reported against the males once the cops show up.

>
>Oftentimes black men choose their masculinity over their
>blackness because thats the only social capital they have.
>(masculinity being greed, violence, emotional immaturity)

I don't even know how to respond to this.

>
>These are valid reasons to be angry at black men, and i think
>that anger gets warped into something else, especially when
>you have an online community hyping up your darkest thoughts.
>
>
>There's a major shift going on in gender relations and the
>more you cling to this binary idea of victimhood (black men
>are oppressed, therefore aren't capable of being oppressive)
>the more you'll focus on the outliers of black women that are
>being extreme instead of really understanding where they're
>coming from.
>
>

_____________________________________

Let me guess, I can have "good day" now, right?

Thanks for the point-by-point response. I didn't have the energy today lol. Doesn't seem to matter how much we debunk all this stuff anyway. As for the one you didn't know how to respond to, allow me:
That shit ain't true. It's another fabricated feel-good lie about Black men, with no ounce of empirical evidence, for those who love to hate us. Folks see one Black man doing something, and now it's "Black men often do this." Shit's just weird how you can seriously say anything about the Black male collective now.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

You're still on some "us vs. them" isht. You think i got deployed by some University Feminist Mafia? lol

Im not suggesting that black men are inherently more violent than any other race of men, but if we're talking pro-blackness, im holding my people to a higher standard than anyone else.

I def agree that statistics can be skewed because black people live in over-policed neighborhoods, and are often falsely accused of crimes.

but there's also hella black women who refused to cooperate with police regarding abuse because they know how the system treats us. thats tragic.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

That's not really saying much these days.


>You're still on some "us vs. them" isht. You think i got
>deployed by some University Feminist Mafia? lol


Not at all.


>Im not suggesting that black men are inherently more violent
>than any other race of men, but if we're talking
>pro-blackness, im holding my people to a higher standard than
>anyone else.
>
>I def agree that statistics can be skewed because black people
>live in over-policed neighborhoods, and are often falsely
>accused of crimes.
>
>but there's also hella black women who refused to cooperate
>with police regarding abuse because they know how the system
>treats us. thats tragic.


Let's just cut the fat. It seems like you believe you're introducing a fresh point of view. I don't think it is. You're saying there are legit critiques of Black men. Ok. That doesn't justify vilifying all Black men anymore than legit critiques of Black women justify vilifying all Black women. Especially when most of the critiques are anecdotal and not representative of the collective. It's really that simple.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

And ahistorical.

But its coming from somewhere, right? Women aren't just pulling these experiences out of their asses. They encounter more men, on an intimate and professional level, than actual men.

There's def people going overboard and using the internet to vent, as opposed to be productive, but you're doing yourself a disservice by rejecting things because you feel vilified.

When people are oppressed, they assimilate or rebel. More often than not, they assimilate. Do you not think its possible we as black men have adopted harmful ideologies when it comes to gender and sexuality?

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

>And ahistorical.
>
>But its coming from somewhere, right? Women aren't just
>pulling these experiences out of their asses. They encounter
>more men, on an intimate and professional level, than actual
>men.


Here's why you have to stop accusing me of binary thinking. That "black men of white men" gets traction because America has always cosigned vilifying Black men. So when it give you the opposite of what you're saying by substituting "women" for "men" and vice versa, it's only to illustrate that. If both sides and their so-called valid critiques can't be heard, then this isn't a real discussion. I'm saying both sides cling to lowest common denominator accusations. I always called Black men out on it when they did it to Black women, and I'm calling Black women out for doing it to Black men. I'm only getting push back for defending Black men because America has okayed vilifying us. Wild how yall refuse to acknowledge this.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

except no one did that, you lied because you personally are a fucking loser

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

You should look into researching what im saying.

The great thing about the internet is there's countless pools to extract from. Actual black women discussing their experiences, youtubers, authors, academics. Even posters on here.

We're conditioned as men to downplay and rationalize the harm done to women, its hard to receive that information until you stop operating off of pure ego.


>I don't even know how to respond to this.

Take your time.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

>You should look into researching what im saying.
>
>The great thing about the internet is there's countless pools
>to extract from. Actual black women discussing their
>experiences, youtubers, authors, academics. Even posters on
>here.

And here's where you're misstepping, my brother. In my humble opinion. You're criticizing black men for exercising the social capital of violence ( I won't even acknowledge the other examples), but you fail to understand that the people you cite only gain social capital through the targeting of black men, and then they get legitimized by white society for it.

There is an entire cottage industry of attacking black men and black manhood, and you've fallen for it.

_____________________________________

Let me guess, I can have "good day" now, right?

The fact you're focusing on the media *only* attacking black men is interesting. Didn't we not listen to rappers brag about bad bitch redbones with "good hair" for the past few decades?

Dont save her, she dont wanna be saved.

There's countless black men profiting off of disrespecting black women. Becoming millionaires even. The media celebrities profiting from throwing black men under the bus (I agree, some exist) are making scraps compared to that.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

you said "youtubers, authors, academics."

I'm kicking through your goalposts. Don't move them.

_____________________________________

Let me guess, I can have "good day" now, right?

There's no other goal here. What do you think you're protecting?

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

Countless times in this country wholesale violence against black people has been committed upon the predication of the black male superpredator.

And that doesn't only include just about every incident of mass racial violence, that also includes the way we're policed, the drug war, mass incarceration, etc.

And we're so fucking stupid that we parrot the same bullshit because we think it'll gain us brownie points from the dominant society, but we're really just selling our own people down the river.

And you're continuing to propagate that idiocy.

_____________________________________

Let me guess, I can have "good day" now, right?

That doesn't make my previous posts less true.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

are certain there's a whole industry built on attacking them.

no one has ever made money attacking you because no one knows you exist, and you know that LOL.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

You should look into the history of how America has always done this. Perhaps start with how Birth of a Nation revived the KKK around killing Black men... or suffragetes saying lynch 1000 Black men a day if necessary. There's a rich history there that continues even now.

The great thing about the internet is there's countless pools to extract from. Academics, authors, statistics on incarceration, police murder, and school suspension, scholars, actual Black men discussing their experiences, youtubers. Even posters on here.W

We're conditioned as a society to downplay and rationalize the harm done to Black males, it's hard to received that information until you stop operating according to said contitioning and learn to see Black males as human beings.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

Instead of trying to understand what im saying and meet me halfway you're seeing me as opposition.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

rest of us. Somehow, by Black men asserting that our lives are valuable, you think we're "downplaying and rationalizing harm done to women" which is just an odd way to view this. I go to bat for Black men and women alike. The issue, especially on OKP, is that folks feel Black men are privileged in America despite all the evidence of disadvantage and that America has always deemed it ok to vilify us.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

Why do you feel this is acceptable to do to Black men but no one else?

Again, when I turn your words around, substituting Black men for Black women and vice versa, I'm simply appealing to the whatever part of you that understands this is not acceptable to do to Black women. I'm asking that part of you to also recognize it's not ok to do to Black men either.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

Because when I scroll down the page, it's right there, defining Black men by some of the worst things you've seen in individual Black men.
So again I ask, why can you see that it's not ok to do that to Black women but feel it's totally ok to do it to Black men?

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

What are the power dynamics where Black men and women are concerned? How does Black male power manifest both within the Black community and in society overall? Etc.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>What are the OKP thoughts on this?


Willie Lynch 2k20

and then you have those who always reference a Twitter handle as some type of insult.

“Imagine someone using the same argument as (insert random fritter handle)”

Lmao.. okay.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

I don't see hatred of "tradditional masculinity" anywhere on OKP.

I see hatred of traditional masculinity as the only video definition of masculinity.

I see a hatred for men using the word "feminen" or some gender or sexual idenety driven variant/equivalent as a diss, as this overtly defines those as "less than".

I see a disdain for patriarchal norms- and traditional perceptions of gender overa-that are nothing but social constructs that are simply imposed.

To that end, if you want to be a cowboy, be a cowboy. I don't see a backlash to that.

The backlash comes when said cowboy wants to be misogunitsic and homophobic, or a dismissal of forms of masculinity that don't conform to The Cowboy Way of masculinity.

In other words, if your concept of masculinity is in direct conflict with modern- ahem, more inclusive- socimetal standards, well.... yeah.

You will, and should, run into some opposition.

...admittedly it's a difficult thing to define, because it can be different for different men. I think the one thing that different forms of "traditional masculinity" have in common with each other is that they are BENEFICIAL to one's family, one's community and one's self.

What's easier to define is what "traditional masculinity" IS NOT: The hyper-masculine image of a man prone to violence, sexual assault, lack of emotions (sociopaths?), hyper-competitiveness, apathy, shiftlessness, consumerism, etc.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

>...admittedly it's a difficult thing to define, because it
>can be different for different men. I think the one thing that
>different forms of "traditional masculinity" have in common
>with each other is that they are BENEFICIAL to one's family,
>one's community and one's self.

You said OKP hates traditional masculinity.

So what form of this robust, broad definition does OKP hate?

If it's that difficult to define, how is it so easy to say that a message board full of people hate it? If the hate for "traditional masculinity" is so pervasive, it should be rather esy to pin down the thing everyone hates.

>What's easier to define is what "traditional masculinity" IS
>NOT: The hyper-masculine image of a man prone to violence,
>sexual assault, lack of emotions (sociopaths?),
>hyper-competitiveness, apathy, shiftlessness, consumerism,
>etc.

Well yes, it's easy to look at caricature details and say "it's definitely not this".

is deeply aligned with boogie.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

there are a bunch of people who recognize that boogie stimuli is a waste of human existence, and as such ignore him.

it's sad, but straight black men have support over here.


boogie just doesn't, because everyone knows he sucks.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

from a week ago that no one outside the circle of your scam youtubers cared about at all

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

likes to get his daily affirmations from

FIRESTORM


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

From being full blown "men's rights activists."

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

delete

take a message

------

_____________________________________

Let me guess, I can have "good day" now, right?

there's just people who think you're a loser. that's it.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I'm legit curious

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

To be a Negro in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in a rage almost all the time.-JB


But the color of the Negro's skin makes him easily recognizable, makes him suspect, coverts him into defenseless target.-RW


It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks.-MX



from being whipped to death or sold, black codes telling him where and where not to go, than being turned into Strange Fruit, assassinated in front of his family, has to compete for limited resources, told he cant be under the same roof w/ his family, turn to drugs or murder due despair, found guilty by jury of his peers (all white eyes), being hunted by cops for existing....to questioning "does my life matter"

nothing wrong with his ego being fragile.

take a message

In other words, you're wasting your time.

_____________________________________

Let me guess, I can have "good day" now, right?

it's that you're a fucking loser and you know it.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

It is far too accepted in American society, to demonize Black men.
Black straight men. Black gay men. Black trans men.

However you define "Black man", that identity is free-for-all from the rest of society.

I don't say this from a "woe is me" perspective. But some of the quote tweets and replies to that single comment were very telling.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

https://twitter.com/ChampagneSharks/status/1306343281408827392?s=20

this catalogues some of the responses and how virulent they were.

And I agree with the statement the author of this thread said here:

"This stance may surprise people but I actually think people have a total right to hate straight black men if they want to, especially if they’re honest about it. Let me know who I’m dealing with. What I hate is hating them but still using them for a come up."

Walker's initial commentary sounds like a reactionary pipeline into Jordan Petersonism until you see how people responded.

but feel free to respond with 12 replies as to how this guy is grifting or whatever

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

link the tweets directly. let's look at these "people"

not screenshots that take away all context.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at