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Subject: "Did y’all see the wealth transfer numbers from 1975 to 2020? (*swipe*)" Previous topic | Next topic
MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
19796 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 01:27 PM

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"Did y’all see the wealth transfer numbers from 1975 to 2020? (*swipe*)"


  

          

The Top 1% of Americans Have Taken $50 Trillion From the Bottom 90%—And That's Made the U.S. Less Secure

"On average, extreme inequality is costing the median income full-time worker about $42,000 a year. Adjusted for inflation using the CPI, the numbers are even worse: half of all full-time workers (those at or below the median income of $50,000 a year) now earn less than half what they would have had incomes across the distribution continued to keep pace with economic growth. And that’s per worker, not per household. "

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https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/


Like many of the virus’s hardest hit victims, the United States went into the COVID-19 pandemic wracked by preexisting conditions. A fraying public health infrastructure, inadequate medical supplies, an employer-based health insurance system perversely unsuited to the moment—these and other afflictions are surely contributing to the death toll. But in addressing the causes and consequences of this pandemic—and its cruelly uneven impact—the elephant in the room is extreme income inequality.

How big is this elephant? A staggering $50 trillion. That is how much the upward redistribution of income has cost American workers over the past several decades.

This is not some back-of-the-napkin approximation. According to a groundbreaking new working paper by Carter C. Price and Kathryn Edwards of the RAND Corporation, had the more equitable income distributions of the three decades following World War II (1945 through 1974) merely held steady, the aggregate annual income of Americans earning below the 90th percentile would have been $2.5 trillion higher in the year 2018 alone. That is an amount equal to nearly 12 percent of GDP—enough to more than double median income—enough to pay every single working American in the bottom nine deciles an additional $1,144 a month. Every month. Every single year.

Price and Edwards calculate that the cumulative tab for our four-decade-long experiment in radical inequality had grown to over $47 trillion from 1975 through 2018. At a recent pace of about $2.5 trillion a year, that number we estimate crossed the $50 trillion mark by early 2020. That’s $50 trillion that would have gone into the paychecks of working Americans had inequality held constant—$50 trillion that would have built a far larger and more prosperous economy—$50 trillion that would have enabled the vast majority of Americans to enter this pandemic far more healthy, resilient, and financially secure.

As the RAND report demonstrates, a rising tide most definitely did not lift all boats. It didn’t even lift most of them, as nearly all of the benefits of growth these past 45 years were captured by those at the very top. And as the American economy grows radically unequal it is holding back economic growth itself.


Even inequality is meted out unequally. Low-wage workers and their families, disproportionately people of color, suffer from far higher rates of asthma, hypertension, diabetes, and other COVID-19 comorbidities; yet they are also far less likely to have health insurance, and far more likely to work in “essential” industries with the highest rates of coronavirus exposure and transmission. It is no surprise then, according to the CDC, that COVID-19 inflicts “a disproportionate burden of illness and death among racial and ethnic minority groups.” But imagine how much safer, healthier, and empowered all American workers might be if that $50 trillion had been paid out in wages instead of being funneled into corporate profits and the offshore accounts of the super-rich. Imagine how much richer and more resilient the American people would be. Imagine how many more lives would have been saved had our people been more resilient.

It is easy to see how such a deadly virus, and the draconian measures required to contain it, might spark an economic depression. But look straight into the eyes of the elephant in the room, and it is impossible to deny the many ways in which our extreme inequality—an exceptionally American affliction—has made the virus more deadly and its economic consequences more dire than in any other advanced nation. Why is our death toll so high and our unemployment rate so staggeringly off the charts? Why was our nation so unprepared, and our economy so fragile? Why have we lacked the stamina and the will to contain the virus like most other advanced nations? The reason is staring us in the face: a stampede of rising inequality that has been trampling the lives and livelihoods of the vast majority of Americans, year after year after year.

Of course, America’s chronic case of extreme inequality is old news. Many other studies have documented this trend, chronicled its impact, and analyzed its causes. But where others have painted the picture in terms of aggregate shares of GDP, productivity growth, or other cold, hard statistics, the RAND report brings the inequality price tag directly home by denominating it in dollars—not just the aggregate $50 trillion figure, but in granular demographic detail. For example, are you a typical Black man earning $35,000 a year? You are being paid at least $26,000 a year less than you would have had income distributions held constant. Are you a college-educated, prime-aged, full-time worker earning $72,000? Depending on the inflation index used (PCE or CPI, respectively), rising inequality is costing you between $48,000 and $63,000 a year. But whatever your race, gender, educational attainment, urbanicity, or income, the data show, if you earn below the 90th percentile, the relentlessly upward redistribution of income since 1975 is coming out of your pocket.

As Price and Edwards explain, from 1947 through 1974, real incomes grew close to the rate of per capita economic growth across all income levels. That means that for three decades, those at the bottom and middle of the distribution saw their incomes grow at about the same rate as those at the top. This was the era in which America built the world’s largest and most prosperous middle class, an era in which inequality between income groups steadily shrank (even as shocking inequalities between the sexes and races largely remained). But around 1975, this extraordinary era of broadly shared prosperity came to an end. Since then, the wealthiest Americans, particularly those in the top 1 percent and 0.1 percent, have managed to capture an ever-larger share of our nation’s economic growth—in fact, almost all of it—their real incomes skyrocketing as the vast majority of Americans saw little if any gains.

What if American prosperity had continued to be broadly shared—how much more would a typical worker be earning today? Once the data are compiled, answering these questions is fairly straightforward. Price and Edwards look at real taxable income from 1975 to 2018. They then compare actual income distributions in 2018 to a counterfactual that assumes incomes had continued to keep pace with growth in per capita Gross Domestic Product (GDP)—a 118% increase over the 1975 income numbers. Whether measuring inflation using the more conservative Personal Consumption Expenditures Price Index (PCE) or the more commonly cited Consumer Price Index for all Urban Consumers (CPI-U-RS), the results are striking.


At every income level up to the 90th percentile, wage earners are now being paid a fraction of what they would have had inequality held constant. For example, at the median individual income of $36,000, workers are being shortchanged by $21,000 a year—$28,000 when using the CPI—an amount equivalent to an additional $10.10 to $13.50 an hour. But according to Price and Edwards, this actually understates the impact of rising inequality on low- and middle-income workers, because much of the gains at the bottom of the distribution were largely “driven by an increase in hours not an increase in wages.” To adjust for this, along with changing patterns of workforce participation, the researchers repeat their analysis for full-year, full-time, prime-aged workers (age 25 to 54). These results are even more stark: “Unlike the growth patterns in the 1950s and 60s,” write Price and Edwards, “the majority of full-time workers did not share in the economic growth of the last forty years.”


On average, extreme inequality is costing the median income full-time worker about $42,000 a year. Adjusted for inflation using the CPI, the numbers are even worse: half of all full-time workers (those at or below the median income of $50,000 a year) now earn less than half what they would have had incomes across the distribution continued to keep pace with economic growth. And that’s per worker, not per household. At both the 25th and 50th percentiles, households comprised of a married couple with one full-time worker earned thousands of dollars less in 2018 dollars than a comparable household in 1975—and $50,000 and $66,000 less respectively than if inequality had held constant—a predicament compounded by the rising costs of maintaining a dignified middle-class life. According to Oren Cass, executive director of the conservative think tank American Compass, the median male worker needed 30 weeks of income in 1985 to pay for housing, healthcare, transportation, and education for his family. By 2018, that “Cost of Thriving Index” had increased to 53 weeks (more weeks than in an actual year). But the counterfactual reveals an even starker picture: In 2018, the combined income of married households with two full-time workers was barely more than what the income of a single-earner household would have earned had inequality held constant. Two-income families are now working twice the hours to maintain a shrinking share of the pie, while struggling to pay housing, healthcare, education, childcare, and transportations costs that have grown at two to three times the rate of inflation.

This dramatic redistribution of income from the majority of workers to those at the very top is so complete that even at the 95th percentile, most workers are still earning less than they would have had inequality held constant. It is only at the 99th percentile that we see incomes growing faster than economic growth: at 171 percent of the rate of per capita GDP. But even this understates the disparity. “The average income growth for the top one percent was substantially higher,” write Price and Edwards, “at more than 300 percent of the real per capita GDP rate.” The higher your income, the larger your percentage gains. As a result, the top 1 percent’s share of total taxable income has more than doubled, from 9 percent in 1975, to 22 percent in 2018, while the bottom 90 percent have seen their income share fall, from 67 percent to 50 percent. This represents a direct transfer of income—and over time, wealth—from the vast majority of working Americans to a handful at the very top.


But given the changing demographic composition of the U.S. workforce, these topline numbers can only tell part of the story. The U.S. workforce is now better educated and more urban than it was in 1975. It is also far less white and male—with white men falling from over 60 percent of the prime-aged workforce in 1974 to less than 45 percent by 2018. These changes are important, because while there was far more equality between the income distributions in 1975, there was also more inequality within them—notably in regard to gender and race.

For example, in 1975, the median income of white women was only 31 percent of that of white men; by 2018 white women were earning 68 percent as much. Likewise, the median income of Black men as a share of their white counterparts’ earnings rose from 74 percent in 1975, to 80 percent in 2018. Clearly, income disparities between races, and especially between men and women, have narrowed since 1975, and that is a good thing. But unfortunately, much of the narrowing we see is more an artifact of four decades of flat or declining wages for low- and middle-income white men than it is of substantial gains for women and nonwhites.


Much has been made about white male grievance in the age of Trump, and given their falling or stagnant real incomes, one can understand why some white men might feel aggrieved. White, non-urban, non-college educated men have the slowest wage growth in every demographic category. But to blame their woes on competition from women or minorities would be to completely miss the target. In fact, white men still earn more than white women at all income distributions, and substantially more than most non-white men and women. Only Asian-American men earn higher. Yet there is no moral or practical justification for the persistence of any income disparity based on race or gender.

The counterfactuals in the table above appear vastly unequal because they extrapolate from the indefensible 1975-levels of race and gender inequality; they assume that inequality remained constant both between income distributions and within them—that women and nonwhites had not narrowed the income gap with white men. But surely, this cannot be our goal. In an economy freed from race and gender bias, and that shares the fruits of growth broadly across all income distributions, the most appropriate counterfactual for all the groups in this table would be the aggregate counterfactual for “All Groups”: a median income of $57,000 a year for all adults with positive earnings ($92,000 for full-time prime-age workers). That would be the income for all workers at the 50th percentile, regardless of race or gender, had race and gender inequality within distributions been eliminated, and inequality between distributions not grown. By this measure we can see that in real dollars, women and nonwhites have actually lost more income to rising inequality than white men, because starting from their disadvantaged positions in 1975, they had far more to potentially gain. Per capita GDP grew by 118 percent over the following four decades, so there was plenty of new income to spread around. That the majority of white men have benefited from almost none of this growth isn’t because they have lost income to women or minorities; it’s because they’ve lost it to their largely white male counterparts in the top 1 percent who have captured nearly all of the income growth for themselves. According to economist Thomas Piketty, men accounted for 85 percent of the top income centile in the mid-2010s—and while he doesn’t specify, these men are overwhelmingly white.

Thus, by far the single largest driver of rising inequality these past forty years has been the dramatic rise in inequality between white men.


The data on income distribution by educational attainment is equally revealing, in that it calls the lie on the notion of a “skills gap”—a dominant narrative that has argued that rising inequality is largely a consequence of a majority of American workers failing to acquire the higher skills necessary to compete in our modern global economy. If workers were better educated, this narrative argues, they would earn more money. Problem solved.

Indeed, at every income distribution, the education premium has increased since 1975, with the income of college graduates rising faster than their less educated counterparts. But this growing gap is more a consequence of falling incomes for workers without a college degree than it is of rising real incomes for most workers with one—for not only have workers without a degree secured none of the gains from four decades of economic growth, below the 50th percentile they’ve actually seen their real incomes decline. College educated workers are doing better. The median real income for full-time workers with a four-year degree has grown from $55,000 a year in 1975 to $72,000 in 2018. But that still falls far short of the $120,000 they’d be earning had incomes grown with per capita GDP. Even at the 90th percentile, a college educated full-time worker making $191,000 a year is earning less than 78 percent what they would have had inequality held constant.

The reality is that American workers have never been more highly educated. In 1975, only 67 percent of the adult US workforce had a high school education or better, while just 15 percent had earned a four-year college degree. By 2018, 91 percent of adult workers had completed high school, while the percentage of college graduates in the workforce had more than doubled to 34 percent. In raw numbers, the population of adult workers with a high school education or less has fallen since 1975, while the number of workers with a four-year degree has more than quadrupled.


It is impossible to argue that a “skills gap” is responsible for rising income inequality when the rate of educational attainment is rising faster than the rate of growth in productivity or per capita GDP. Yes, workers with college degrees are doing better than those without; the economy we’ve built over the past 45 years has been more unequal to some than to others. But below the 90th percentile, even college graduates are falling victim to a decades-long trend of radical inequality that is robbing them of most of the benefits of economic growth.

The iron rule of market economies is that we all do better when we all do better: when workers have more money, businesses have more customers, and hire more workers. Seventy percent of our economy is dependent on consumer spending; the faster and broader real incomes grow, the stronger the demand for the products and services American businesses produce. This is the virtuous cycle through which workers and businesses prospered together in the decades immediately following World War II. But as wages stagnated after 1975, so too did consumer demand; and as demand slowed, so did the economy. A 2014 report from the OECD estimated that rising income inequality knocked as much 9 points off U.S. GDP growth over the previous two decades—a deficit that has surely grown over the past six years as inequality continued to climb. That’s about $2 trillion worth of GDP that’s being frittered away, year after year, through policy choices that intentionally constrain the earning power of American workers.

COVID-19 may have triggered our current crisis, but it wasn’t its only cause. For even had our political leaders done everything right in the moment, our response to the pandemic would still have been mired in the footprint of extreme inequality: a $50 trillion upward redistribution of wealth and income—$297,000 per household—that has left our families, our economy, and our democracy far less capable of fighting this virus than in other advanced nations. This is the America that stumbled into the COVID-19 pandemic and the economic catastrophe it unleashed: An America with an economy $2 trillion smaller and a workforce $2.5 trillion a year poorer than they otherwise would be had inequality held constant since 1975. This is an America in which 47 percent of renters are cost burdened, in which 40 percent of households can’t cover a $400 emergency expense, in which half of Americans over age 55 have no retirement savings at all. This is an America in which 28 million have no health insurance, and in which 44 million underinsured Americans can’t afford the deductibles or copays to use the insurance they have. This is an America that recklessly rushed to reopen its economy in the midst of a deadly pandemic because businesses were too fragile to survive an extended closure and workers too powerless and impoverished to defy the call back to work.


There are some who blame the current plight of working Americans on structural changes in the underlying economy—on automation, and especially on globalization. According to this popular narrative, the lower wages of the past 40 years were the unfortunate but necessary price of keeping American businesses competitive in an increasingly cutthroat global market. But in fact, the $50 trillion transfer of wealth the RAND report documents has occurred entirely within the American economy, not between it and its trading partners. No, this upward redistribution of income, wealth, and power wasn’t inevitable; it was a choice—a direct result of the trickle-down policies we chose to implement since 1975.

We chose to cut taxes on billionaires and to deregulate the financial industry. We chose to allow CEOs to manipulate share prices through stock buybacks, and to lavishly reward themselves with the proceeds. We chose to permit giant corporations, through mergers and acquisitions, to accumulate the vast monopoly power necessary to dictate both prices charged and wages paid. We chose to erode the minimum wage and the overtime threshold and the bargaining power of labor. For four decades, we chose to elect political leaders who put the material interests of the rich and powerful above those of the American people.

Other nations are suffering less from COVID-19 because they made better choices, and the good news is that America can, too. Economics is a choice. We could choose to raise the federal minimum wage to $15 or $20 an hour and peg it to productivity growth like in the decades before 1975. We could choose to revalue work so that the majority of Americans once again earn time-and-a-half pay for every hour worked over 40 hours a week. We could choose to provide affordable high-quality healthcare, childcare, and education to all Americans, while modernizing our social insurance and retirement systems so that contract and gig workers aren’t left out and left behind. We could choose to make it easier for workers to organize, and to defend the rights and interests of those who can’t. We could choose to build a more equitable, resilient, and prosperous America—an America that grows its economy by intentionally including every American in it. But given our nation’s radical redistribution of wealth and power these past 40 years, it won’t be easy.


What American workers need are multiple simultaneous experiments in rebuilding worker power, from tweaking existing labor laws to sectoral bargaining to the creation of whole new trade associations and broad-based not-for-profit organizations. For example, imagine an AARP for all working Americans, relentlessly dedicated to both raising wages and reducing the cost of thriving—a mass membership organization so large and so powerful that our political leaders won’t dare to look the other way. Only then, by matching power with power, can we clear a path to enacting the laws and policies necessary to ensure that that trickle-down economics never threatens our health, safety, and welfare again.

There is little evidence that the current administration has any interest in dealing with this crisis. Our hope is that a Biden administration would be historically bold. But make no mistake that both our political and economic systems will collapse absent solutions that scale to the enormous size of the problem. The central goal of our nation’s economic policy must be nothing less than the doubling of median income. We must dramatically narrow inequality between distributions while eliminating racial and gender inequalities within them. This is the standard to which we should hold leaders from both parties. To advocate for anything less would be cowardly or dishonest or both.

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“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Bernie's been telling you this... but you scoffed at him..
Sep 16th 2020
1
Yes, everyone's a crook except Bernie
Sep 16th 2020
2
any thoughts on the actual article?
Sep 16th 2020
3
      Nope, only thing I know is that BOTH are equally crooked
Sep 16th 2020
10
           you're more invested in the mythology of bernie than actual supporters
Sep 16th 2020
11
                well said.
Sep 18th 2020
38
I went to his webpage, he didn't
Sep 16th 2020
4
Doesn’t matter. Americans don’t want to admit
Sep 16th 2020
5
they seem to love it.. they even want it to happen to their kids...
Sep 16th 2020
7
      Who is "they" white man? Be specific
Sep 16th 2020
9
How would transfering money from the wealthy to the state address the
Sep 16th 2020
6
^^^This is the problem
Sep 16th 2020
14
      And I LIKE Bernie, there’s a few pauses for me, but I like the dude
Sep 16th 2020
15
Bernie: What black voters?!
Sep 16th 2020
13
Black voters exist, but 'the black vote' doesn't
Sep 16th 2020
19
      You touched on some of these points
Sep 17th 2020
23
           great piece.
Sep 17th 2020
24
                RE: great piece.
Sep 17th 2020
25
                You are a white Canadian man that doesn't stop shitting on the first Bla...
Sep 17th 2020
26
                     Justice is justice everywhere and facts are facts everywhere
Sep 17th 2020
29
                          You're a fucking racist piece of shit.
Sep 17th 2020
30
                               you're doing a lil too much here.
Sep 17th 2020
32
                                    Were you around during the primaries?
Sep 17th 2020
33
                                    Ahh so theres history here.
Sep 18th 2020
41
                                         Obama is a former president and has a professional life
Sep 18th 2020
43
                                    Another Canadian ^^
Sep 18th 2020
34
                                         The white vote hasn't gone for the Democratic Party since the Civil Righ...
Sep 18th 2020
35
                                         RE: The white vote hasn't gone for the Democratic Party since the Civil ...
Sep 18th 2020
36
                                              I'm not reading another word you type that's not about white supremacy
Sep 18th 2020
37
                                                   Good talk
Sep 18th 2020
39
                                         you only appear to make half baked posts.
Sep 18th 2020
40
                y'all will notice that they always have a black guy to blame
Sep 17th 2020
28
who scoffed at him?
Sep 17th 2020
22
      those fucking people, like who?
Sep 18th 2020
42
I read something similar about the same stats
Sep 16th 2020
8
Thanks Ronald!!!
Sep 16th 2020
12
I keep a reminder hanging my living room.
Sep 16th 2020
16
Oh damn. That's dope. I may get one myself.
Sep 16th 2020
18
      Same nm RE: Oh damn. That's dope. I may get one myself.
Sep 17th 2020
21
Caping for capitalism
Sep 16th 2020
17
A loud 'God Damn Reagan'....
Sep 16th 2020
20
guillotine.
Sep 17th 2020
27
there are too many stupid hateful suckers not even trying to see this
Sep 17th 2020
31

My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Wed Sep-16-20 02:02 PM

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1. "Bernie's been telling you this... but you scoffed at him.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...meanwhile the Dems and Republicans both keep robbing us and have no plans to stop


"Our hope is that a Biden administration would be historically bold."

LMAO... good fucking luck with that. you get what you vote for.








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handle
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Wed Sep-16-20 02:04 PM

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2. "Yes, everyone's a crook except Bernie"
In response to Reply # 1


          

And Republicans and Democrats are exactly the same.

(And you wonder why your message isn't working??)

------------
My prayers have been answered!

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6031 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 02:09 PM

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3. "any thoughts on the actual article? "
In response to Reply # 2


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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handle
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Wed Sep-16-20 02:41 PM

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10. "Nope, only thing I know is that BOTH are equally crooked"
In response to Reply # 3


          

Except Bernie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In conclusion: Your either for Bernie or for death and evil and suffering.

Everything is always the same - except Bernie!

------------
My prayers have been answered!

Gone
My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6031 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 02:53 PM

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11. "you're more invested in the mythology of bernie than actual supporters"
In response to Reply # 10


          

there's a reason the phrase commonly used by them is "Not me, us"

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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rawsouthpaw
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Fri Sep-18-20 10:40 AM

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38. "well said. "
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
19796 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 02:16 PM

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4. "I went to his webpage, he didn't"
In response to Reply # 1
Wed Sep-16-20 02:21 PM by MEAT

  

          

He's off by magnitudes.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/tax-extreme-wealth/

Over the last 30 years, the top 1 percent has seen a $21 trillion increase in its wealth, while the bottom half of American society has actually lost $900 billion in wealth. In other words, there has been a massive transfer of wealth from those who have too little to those who have too much. For the sake of our democracy and working families all over America who are struggling economically, that has got to change.

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/06/14/top-1-up-21-trillion-bottom-50-down-900-billion/


And his plan and rhetoric still frames this as "middle class" when there's a millionaire and above class, and everyone else.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67184 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 02:19 PM

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5. "Doesn’t matter. Americans don’t want to admit"
In response to Reply # 1


          

that they been fucked over by their hero’s.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Wed Sep-16-20 02:33 PM

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7. "they seem to love it.. they even want it to happen to their kids..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

...i wish this country wasn't so fucking dumb







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MEAT
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Wed Sep-16-20 02:40 PM

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9. "Who is "they" white man? Be specific"
In response to Reply # 7
Wed Sep-16-20 02:40 PM by MEAT

  

          

.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
19796 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 02:23 PM

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6. "How would transfering money from the wealthy to the state address the "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

issue of money transferred from the poor to the wealthy in the form of income and assets?

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20773 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 04:46 PM

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14. "^^^This is the problem "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Taxing only helps the gov't which already pays more money on avg and have better benefits on avg than the private sector.

Literally, the best job in America is working for the Gov't.

As the article stated, policy needs to change.

-Corporate taxes up...yes.
-Millionaire taxes up...yes.
-$20/hr min wage...yes.
-Better laws around labor...yes.
-More (smart) regulation on financial markets...yes
-Equal tax distribution for social services (schools, social programs, etc.)...yes.
-Laws penalizing pay inequality...yes.
-Mass labor representation...yes

etc.
etc.
etc.

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Wed Sep-16-20 05:57 PM

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15. "And I LIKE Bernie, there’s a few pauses for me, but I like the dude"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

It’s just that too many of his supporters are “you dumb, bought off people are too dumb to get with the program, he’s talking about taking money for the rich and giving it back to the social programs”

And they say this without any irony on how historically racist American government social programs are. Because they just jump all ills as a matter of income inequality that’s only true to a degree.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Wed Sep-16-20 02:59 PM

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13. "Bernie: What black voters?!"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

aight, look, I get it, "a rising tide raises all ships"

and

"there are bigger issues in US economy than identity politics"

(not my quotes, but these are the general thoughts I've found to be driving pro-bernie activity)

still, if you want to win you have to court the black vote. FACT.

Bernie was comfortable around black people (potentially debatable) but homie wasn't all up in the church shucking and jiving with auntie and grandma to get that black vote.


Killer Mike Liked him!

nope not the same thing.


you cannot win if you do not court the black vote.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Wed Sep-16-20 08:20 PM

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19. "Black voters exist, but 'the black vote' doesn't"
In response to Reply # 13
Wed Sep-16-20 08:20 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

>Bernie was comfortable around black people (potentially
>debatable) but homie wasn't all up in the church shucking and
>jiving with auntie and grandma to get that black vote.

and honestly, the "all up in the church shucking and jiving" didn't work with Andrew Yang (who actually did do that).

Biden didn't do shit but say, "I'm Obama's best friend" more or less before the pandemic hit and Trump (expectedly) tanked it.

Kamala had laughably low support in polls among black voters, but here she is.

The United States has a "white voter" problem.
In the Southern states, usually a non-factor in the electoral college-hacked general election map, the decision of who to back (especially in a fucked up election like this) is heavily predicated on what white voters (in a handful of states) will do. Black voters (self included) KNOW what white voters will do if you let them, even more than the Democratic Party appears to do. Thus, someone like Bernie Sanders, who campaigns in a similar vein as Obama '08, at an even more dire time, is seen as too risky. Obama himself was thought to be a long shot and very risky for many of these same voters, UNTIL Iowa went heavily for Obama. The general public has mostly memory-holed this fact, but I think people in the Democratic Party brass, who wanted anyone but a serious left-leaning populist, did not. I'll come back to that.

It also has a "Black respectability politics elite" problem. Jim Clyburn has that decorative title in the House of Representatives, but tells people that things "aren't free". John Lewis (RIP) did the same. At a time when Black people are at their most vulnerable and MURRICA is MURRICA-ing at their most MURRICA in centuries. Clyburn is seen as a "kingmaker" in this regard largely because of the role he played in reassuring black voters (the majority of South Carolina Democratic voters) in 2008 that Obama was a safe bet. In real time, that looked like a bold move, bucking the Clintonites, who (unfortunately) to this day, have a stranglehold on the upper rung of the party.

In retrospect, when you look at the combination of voters in the early primaries (in particular, the Iowa caucus) going with Obama, and then Clyburn backing him in South Carolina, it looks less to me like a coincidence, when you look at those same two states in 2020.

In 2020, Bernie won (in delegates) Iowa. But that's not what the corporate media reported. A wholly unnecessary counting app, developed only to make some money from some contractors in the state party, spiked the ball in behalf of Buttigieg. Biden, the Centrist choice TANKED that state, and several others before South Carolina came along. All the while, people (including those on this very site) were whining about how "these white states shouldn't go first", and instead of suggesting that everyone go at the same time, they suggest putting states that (under current electoral college paradigm) mean absolute jack shit in the general election for a Democrat, should be given precedence, ostensibly because most of the voters in those states are Black (so they say).

Bullshit. Knowing that many black voters in those states, who tend to vote Democratic, will hedge toward the centrist candidate thinking that's what white people in "swing" states will do, centrist candidates use those states as a firewall, while offering nothing in return.

It would have been nice to see Bernie upend that bullshit, but out of all the candidates IMO, he had /the most/ outreach with working class Black people in the swing states. Latinos in many states also.



In 2016, in the states that REALLY matter (under the electoral college), Black votes DROPPED precipitously. Having even a fraction of the 2012 votes in Wisconsin would have blocked Trump. In Pennsylvania and Michigan as well.

This is going to be the song and dance until Black people are free from the prison of what "white voters in swing states will do". All of us are in a similar prison during the pandemic. Unable to do shit because of what (a larger number) of white people are doing, never mind the elected officials and the ruling class ghouls who enrich them.

2008 was an exception on paper. Especially compared to hawkish Hillary, Obama looked very much the progressive. He was rewarded for his campaigning with votes. But the people mostly got symbolism, rather than tough, partisan governing we'd expect from a Democrat in charge.

I don't think we will know what would have happened in a non-COVID situation.

I know for certain that the chances of Trump being reelected would have been higher in a non-COVID scenario. And the "Third Way" so-called "liberal" Democrats, with their continual privileging of a thimble full of white Republican-to-Democrat voters instead of rallying their base to action and adding to those numbers.... are committed to losing.

TL/DR:

Bernie was fine with black voters, just not enough to get over the firewall centrist Democrats use to justify their taking Black voters for granted.

Y'all can blah blah blah about the primary turnout. COVID. Trump. White panic. I'm right. Y'all are wrong. Y'all know it, too.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
213 posts
Thu Sep-17-20 10:39 AM

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23. "You touched on some of these points"
In response to Reply # 19


          

But I think this article from Jacobin is well worth a read if you haven't, a postscript of Bernie's 5 Year War. https://jacobinmag.com/2020/08/bernie-sanders-five-year-war Here's the section on the black vote.

Struggling to Win Black Voters
After the 2016 campaign, in which Sanders’s struggles with black voters cost him dearly, the 2020 campaign made a range of well-documented efforts to court African Americans, in both substance and style. The goal, as Adolph Reed Jr and Willie Legette have argued, was never to win a singular, homogenous, and mythical “black vote” — but in order to compete in a Democratic primary, Sanders did need to convince a lot more black voters.

In 2019, the campaign released an ambitious plan to fund historically black colleges and universities; supported by scholars like Darrick Hamilton and leaders like Jackson, Mississippi, mayor Chokwe Antar Lumumba, Sanders railed against the racial wealth gap and delivered substantive plans to close it. His campaign poured resources into South Carolina, which Sanders visited more times than Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren; Bernie himself went on The Breakfast Club and said his 2016 campaign had been “too white.”

None of it seemed to make an appreciable difference. In South Carolina, where Sanders won 14 percent of black voters in 2016, exit polls showed him winning 17 percent in 2020. In the state’s five counties with a black population over 60 percent, Sanders increased his vote share from 11 percent to 12 percent.

It was no better for him on Super Tuesday and beyond. In the rural South, from eastern North Carolina to western Mississippi, Sanders struggled to break the 15 percent threshold in majority-black counties. In some black urban neighborhoods, like Northside Richmond and Houston’s Third Ward, he made small gains on his 2016 baseline, occasionally winning as much as a third of the vote; but in others, like Southeast Durham and North St. Louis, Sanders fared even worse. On the whole, Biden clobbered him just as comprehensively as Clinton had four years earlier.

After 2016, it was still possible to argue, optimistically, that black voter preferences reflected Clinton’s advantage in name recognition and resources, along with Sanders’s need to focus on the early contests in Iowa and New Hampshire. All the best survey data showed reliable and enthusiastic black support for the core items on Bernie’s social-democratic agenda. With improved messaging and a more serious investment in voter outreach, surely an insurgent left-wing candidate could breach the Democratic establishment’s “firewall” and win a large chunk of black voters.

Bernie Sanders was not that candidate, either in 2016 or in 2020. But after years of struggle, it is time to revisit the assumption that superior policy, messaging, and tactics are enough for any insurgent to overcome black voter support for establishment Democrats. After all, Sanders is far from the only left-wing candidate who has struggled on this front.

In the 2015 Chicago mayoral election, Rahm Emanuel beat Chuy García with huge margins among black voters; the same pattern was visible in gubernatorial races in Virginia, New Jersey, Michigan, and New York, where black voters overwhelmingly backed Ralph Northam, Phil Murphy, Gretchen Whitmer, and Andrew Cuomo against progressive outsiders. In last year’s race for Queens district attorney, Melinda Katz barely edged past Tiffany Cabán with the strong support of black voters in Southeast Queens.

Nor have anti-establishment black candidates necessarily fared much better with black primary voters. Jamaal Bowman’s recent victory over Eliot Engel is a meaningful and inspiring win for the Left, but not many left-wing candidates have had the advantage of facing a severely out-of-touch white opponent in a plurality-black district. Far more often, under different circumstances, the result has gone the other way. In the 2017 Atlanta mayoral race, the business-friendly party favorite Keisha Lance Bottoms creamed Vincent Fort, who had been endorsed by both Bernie Sanders and Killer Mike. And in congressional contests from St. Louis and Chicago to Columbus, Ohio and Prince George’s County, Maryland, black progressive insurgent campaigns have failed to catch fire, with black voters ultimately helping establishment-backed incumbents coast to victory at the polls.

Black voter support for mainline Democrats is a broader trend in American politics — a trend approaching the status of a fundamental fact — and it cannot be explained with reference to Bernie Sanders alone.

After 2016, some argued that a clearer focus on racial justice and a concerted effort to woo activists might boost a left-wing campaign with black voters. But the 2020 race offered slim evidence for that proposition, either in Sanders’s performance or in the frustrations of the Elizabeth Warren campaign, whose platform included a prominent focus on black maternal mortality, grants for black-owned businesses, and targeted reforms to help “farmers of color.”

This rhetoric won black organizers in droves but hardly any black votes: among African Americans, exit polls showed Warren trailing not only Biden and Sanders but Bloomberg, too, in every single state, including her own. In North Carolina’s rural black-majority counties, farmers of color did not turn out for Warren, who actually received fewer votes than “no preference.”

Another popular view is that black voters have the most to fear from Donald Trump and the Republicans, and thus tend to favor moderate, conventionally “electable” candidates. But while concerns about electability surely played a key part in Bernie’s 2020 defeat, there is little evidence to suggest that it mattered more to black Democrats than white Democrats (if anything, polling suggests the opposite). Fear of general election defeat also cannot explain why black voters favored Joe Crowley over Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Andrew Cuomo over Cynthia Nixon, or establishment leaders in other deep-blue areas where Republicans are banished from politics altogether.

Nor can the phenomenon be explained by actual ideological conservatism, or any real hesitance to get behind a politics of material redistribution. In fact, black voters support Medicare for All at higher rates than almost any other demographic in the country.

The institutional conservatism of most black elected leaders, on the other hand, continues to stack the deck against left-wing politics. Powerful black politicians like Jim Clyburn and Hakeem Jeffries, as Perry Bacon Jr has argued, support the establishment because “they are part of the establishment.” The Congressional Black Caucus has not tried to disguise its fierce hostility to left-wing primary challenges, even when the progressive challengers are black, like Bowman and Mckayla Wilkes, and the centrist incumbents are white, like Engel and Steny Hoyer.

Overcoming the near-unanimous opposition of black elected leaders is difficult enough, but the problem for left-wing insurgents is even greater: it’s hard to win black voters by running against a party establishment whose preeminent figure is still, after all, America’s first black president. In the age of Obama, as Joe Biden’s primary campaign showed, black primary voters may well be moved more by appeals to institutional continuity than either personal identity (as Kamala Harris learned) or political ideology.

After fifty years of living in a system where profound material change seems almost impossible — and black politics, like many other zones of politics, has become largely affective and transactional as a result — that feeling is understandable. Black voters, of course, must be a critical part of any working-class majority. But as long as every black political figure with significant institutional standing remains tied to Obama’s party leadership, and remains invested in using that tie to beat back left-wing challenges, anti-establishment candidates will face tough odds.

If there is hope for the Left here, it is that black support for establishment Democrats remains tenacious rather than enthusiastic — strong support from a relatively small group of primary voters. Campaign boasts and press puffery aside, there was no black turnout surge for Joe Biden. Across the March primaries, even as overall Democratic turnout soared in comparison to 2016, it dropped absolutely in black neighborhoods across the country.

In Michigan, Democratic participation bloomed by more than 350,000 votes but wilted in Flint’s first and second wards, where turnout declined from over 25 percent of registered voters to under 21 percent. Similar declines from 2016 were recorded in Ferguson, Missouri, in North St. Louis, in Houston’s Kashmere Gardens, Sunnyside, and Crestmont Park, and in Southeast Durham — even as statewide Democratic turnout soared in Missouri, Texas, and North Carolina.

This follows a pattern already evident in the 2016 general election, in which poor and working-class black voters — like working-class voters generally — appear to comprise a smaller and smaller share of the active Democratic voting coalition.

That is no consolation for Bernie Sanders, whose campaign was premised on its ability to help generate working-class participation in politics. But it does suggest that in some ways, the Left’s struggles with black voters are a specific symptom of a more general disease. The Sanders campaign, in both its remarkable strengths and its ultimately fatal weaknesses, illuminated the larger problem that has plagued left politics across much of the developed world: a failure to mobilize, much less organize, the majority of workers.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130737 posts
Thu Sep-17-20 12:51 PM

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24. "great piece."
In response to Reply # 23
Thu Sep-17-20 12:54 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

I caught Matt Karp (the writer) on Jacobin's YouTube show, where he talked about some of the topics in this article recently, and subsequently went to read this article. I thought it was the best post-mortem of the Bernie 2020 campaign there was.

Absent of the Blackbaiting that you'd get from garden-variety outlets, it cut right through to the facts.

On the video, he made even more salient points which were surprising to hear.

The Obama point is the big one. Some of us in the "further left than liberal" space note the symbolism of Obama as a huge obstacle to breaking through, like you have to navigate it the right way. Even Ta-Nehisi Coates did this in his writing (I don't peg him as being "super left" but you get the idea). The Black leftists with whom I've interfaced recently are very, very eager to tear that symbolism down, to un-memory hole a lot of his missteps. But that may be a wall too high to climb, IMO. Still worth trying.

Ultimately, the biggest disappointment about Bernie is that there is damn near no one else like him in elected office, and especially out of the pool of Senators (usually plucked to become Presidential candidates). Part of this is the gross gatekeeping of the Boomer (and older) generation (of which Bernie himself is part) in the U.S. government, but the other part is just the way the Democratic Party in particular operate. I'm glad Hakeem Jeffries was called out in that article.... that dude is basically going to trade on his "I can quote hip hop" ability to shill for austerity-loving Third Way bums, I can see it from here.

Thanks for sharing this.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
213 posts
Thu Sep-17-20 03:00 PM

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25. "RE: great piece."
In response to Reply # 24


          

Yes, speaking of Obama, he was one of the main factors in stopping Sanders which the article also touched on. Obama has been in the way of progress time and time again, he helped to stop Sanders, to stop the NBA strike, to crush Occupy Wall Street, to call Baltimore protesters thugs, scold Kaepernick etc. https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/obama-colin-kaepernick-anthem-228880

Obama asked Pete to drop out despite the fact that "Buttigieg was proclaimed the winner in Iowa and finished a close second in New Hampshire; never since the birth of the modern primary system has a candidate with that profile quit the race nearly so early. Even as an ideological move to throttle the Left, the Biden coalescence had no precedent in its swiftness and near-perfect coordination. When Jesse Jackson briefly threatened to take the Democratic Party by storm in 1988, establishment rivals Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, Dick Gephardt, and Paul Simon all remained in the running until the end of March, when more than thirty-five primary contests were complete." Also, let's not forget Pete was an original member of the 2019 Stop Sanders squad https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html

The one thing the article leaves out and is often forgotten is that after Nevada Bernie was the out and out favorite and was the frontrunner in almost all national polls and predictions, for example https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanders-is-the-front-runner/

This is when things against Sanders went into overdrive, starting with the debate in SC right after when he was bashed repeatedly over Castro comments that Obama had also said pretty much verbatim. Chris Matthews was proclaiming Bernie would shoot him in Central Park, his supporters were Brownshirts according to Chuck Todd, could we Stop Corona and Sanders was a CNN headline, a contested convention is a good thing say all candidates except Sanders etc. Unlike Obama winning in Iowa Bernie's momentum was portrayed as a bad, scary thing that must be ended at all costs and not embraced.

You are right that Bernie is unique or at least was. I think it was Walleye who said his nomination would have leapfrogged the US ahead by decades. I think his administration would also have helped the US towards a level playing field policy wise with many of the happiest, most productive societies in the world. However, with Cori Bush, Jamaal Bowman, Kshwama Sawant, Lee Carter, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and AOC etc. there is hope, but that hope is again delayed in a time of urgency on so many fronts.

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
19796 posts
Thu Sep-17-20 03:03 PM

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26. "You are a white Canadian man that doesn't stop shitting on the first Bla..."
In response to Reply # 25
Thu Sep-17-20 03:19 PM by MEAT

  

          

president or conservative Black voters.

You don't shit on shitty white people that are actively destroying the world the way you do with "neo-lib" straw man.

With Doc and a lot of other people here, who are Black, and American ... I can see their grievances with a lot of the shit. But they also shine a light on the bullshit that white people are actively perpetuating ... you don't

It's fucking maddening. You want to be lifted by the struggle of Black American survival from abroad. Fuck you. Put your chips up, come down here and put in the work.

Like the casual racism of treating the first Black president or conservative Black voters in the South as the biggest impediment to progress is so outrageously offensive.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
213 posts
Thu Sep-17-20 03:51 PM

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29. "Justice is justice everywhere and facts are facts everywhere"
In response to Reply # 26


          

>You don't shit on shitty white people that are actively
>destroying the world the way you do with "neo-lib" straw man.

Just in the post you quoted I said bad things about Pete Buttigieg, Chris Matthews, Chuck Todd, Michael Smerconish, and all the other candidates so Beto, Bloomberg, Steyer, Warren, Biden, Klobachar.

>It's fucking maddening. You want to be lifted by the struggle
>of Black American survival from abroad. Fuck you. Put your
>chips up, come down here and put in the work.

I thought a Bernie administration would help everyone and black people disproportionately so travelled to Iowa, Michigan and NY in 2016 to knock doors and did 95,000 texts for the campaign in 2020.

>Like the casual racism of treating the first Black president
>or conservative Black voters in the South as the biggest
>impediment to progress is so outrageously offensive.

Obama had the most power and the most sway both as President and as kingmaker which is why the focus on him. If I had to rate the biggest impediments to progress to the Bernie 2020 campaign the media which is mainly controlled by whites and Elizabeth Warren would be ahead of Obama actually.

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
19796 posts
Thu Sep-17-20 03:53 PM

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30. "You're a fucking racist piece of shit. "
In response to Reply # 29
Thu Sep-17-20 04:03 PM by MEAT

  

          

>Just in the post you quoted I said bad things about Pete Buttigieg,
>Chris Matthews, Chuck Todd, Michael Smerconish, and all the other
>candidates so Beto, Bloomberg, Steyer, Warren, Biden, Klobachar.

There is a rising movement of global white fascism and your concern is passive white myopia. Because you're a racist piece of shit and benefit from being actively blind to global white nationalism.


>I thought a Bernie administration would help everyone and black people
>disproportionately so travelled to Iowa, Michigan and NY in 2016 to
>knock doors and did 95,000 texts for the campaign in 2020.

You think this because you don't understand structured racism or America. Probably because you're a racist piece of shit yourself.


>Obama had the most power and the most sway both as President and as
>kingmaker which is why the focus on him. If I had to rate the biggest
>impediments to progress to the Bernie 2020 campaign the media which
>is mainly controlled by whites and Elizabeth Warren would be ahead of
>Obama actually.

Do you have a degree or even an elementary level understanding of history, geopolitics, or America. Fuck your wish fulfillment.

Sorry this is the first time anyone has ever told you that. Maybe hearing it earlier would've changed your life for the better.
You're not on the side of justice, you're on the side of shaping a world through your privileged white lens.
Eat sand

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6031 posts
Thu Sep-17-20 07:02 PM

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32. "you're doing a lil too much here. "
In response to Reply # 30


          

None of what he said was false.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
19796 posts
Thu Sep-17-20 07:17 PM

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33. "Were you around during the primaries? "
In response to Reply # 32
Thu Sep-17-20 07:29 PM by MEAT

  

          

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13370114&mesg_id=13370114&listing_type=search#13370746

Ha! That's a good one. Most of you guys aren't lefties, believe you me. I actually just come here to make my blood boil and see what the latest oppo on Bernie is. I was long ago shaken of my false belief that a hip hop message board would espouse the radical politics of the people we grew up on like Boots Riley, Chuck D and Killer Mike and instead cheer at stopping a movement endorsed by a whose who of virtually every activist group and progressive icon you can name.


Dude spent the entire primaries trying to spit the names of hip hop luminaries that support Bernie, one activist, then the rest of the time bashing “party elites”

He has zero connection to Black people or black lives he’s literally never in any post about Black issues outside of the few times he pipes in to say that we were fucked by Obama and Bernie would be better

Dude is a racist. What else do you call someone who’s constantly either ignoring the plight of or the will of a race to talk down on them about how some savior and their views would help them if they weren’t only swindled by “elites”? He has ZERO vitriol for white nationalism or facism. But he keeps Obama’s name is his mouth for bashing. Fuck him.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6031 posts
Fri Sep-18-20 12:46 PM

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41. "Ahh so theres history here. "
In response to Reply # 33


          

Shitty messenger or not, the message was factual. Theres more than enough evidence to back up the DNC/Obama plotting against progressives.


Obama met up with NBA players striking in support of BLM and strangely enough the strike ended immediately after.

Obama met up with democrat candidates and they all ended up dropping out and endorsing Biden.


"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Fri Sep-18-20 01:23 PM

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43. "Obama is a former president and has a professional life"
In response to Reply # 41
Fri Sep-18-20 01:48 PM by MEAT

  

          

I'm sure he advocated for people that he believes in and causes that he believes in.
That his views aren't as progressive as most of us would like them to be isn't a him problem.

If one nigga could have as much anchoring and ceiling creating sway as he gets blamed for then they would elevate more of us.


And the messenger and message matters.


In response to an article I posted about wealth inequality being stretched since 1975. The first response is from a white dude about Bernie Sanders. Is Bernie Sanders the first thing you thought about as a Black man when hearing about being robbed? Or was it gentrification, redlining, education, subrprime lending, unemployment, the prison system, union break downs, excessive mortality rate ... etc ... personal, humanizing ways that it affects you and not just "a rich white man in power said this".


The first response from the family group chat came from my mom when I shared this:

Mom: I feel the economic squeeze and crush.

MIL: Dang shame.. WTH

Dad: So I would be rich? Not living pay check to pay check rich.


-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
29863 posts
Fri Sep-18-20 06:54 AM

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34. "Another Canadian ^^ "
In response to Reply # 32
Fri Sep-18-20 06:54 AM by Amritsar

  

          

either that or yall just reallllly love Ryan Knight

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
19796 posts
Fri Sep-18-20 07:41 AM

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35. "The white vote hasn't gone for the Democratic Party since the Civil Righ..."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

Act passed. During that time the vote percentage of non whites has gone overwhelmingly to the Democratic Party.

While there are few representatives of those demographics at the heads of the power (US Senators, Governors, House or Senate leaders) that's just as much a symptom of "pay your dues" entrenchment than it is of racial bias.

All to say is that the voting base of the Democratic party is not the same as the party leadership. On a fundamental level the Democratic party is more diverse out of pure necessity, you either elevate subversive or explicit white supremacist policies or you don't. The Republican party has not allowed for that wiggle room.

So you'll see a large number of centrist, moderate, or even conservative non whites firmly in the Democratic party as a result. So when some white liberal keeps banging the drum of people being swindled (ala you're too stupid to know what's good for you) or that there's some cabal to keep from knowing their power and that person is a smooth talking Black man who time and time again told us what he was and everyone projected their ideals on him, rather than acknowledging him as flawed, moderate compared to the youth, but radical compared to the party ... then what do you call that.

What do you call a person that can not, on any level, humanize the people that he wishes to use to see his world view enacted?

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
213 posts
Fri Sep-18-20 10:29 AM

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36. "RE: The white vote hasn't gone for the Democratic Party since the Civil ..."
In response to Reply # 35


          

OK, but we're talking about improving the material conditions of people and especially black people and Obama didn't do that.
He was probably the best president since Jimmy Carter but that's a low bar. You're putting words in my mouth saying I blame the black vote for Bernie's loss, if you read the article I posted it actually made it clear that the white suburban vote is what killed the campaign and that if you account for age then most of the effects of race on voting for Bernie go away.

I'm hugely anti-fascist, if Bernie would have been nominated in 2016 which I worked for the whole Trump era wouldn't have happened.

Let's focus on your article though to refute your dismissal of disproportionality.

"A fraying public health infrastructure, inadequate medical supplies, an employer-based health insurance system perversely unsuited to the moment—these and other afflictions are surely contributing to the death toll. Even inequality is meted out unequally. Low-wage workers and their families, disproportionately people of color, suffer from far higher rates of asthma, hypertension, diabetes, and other COVID-19 comorbidities; yet they are also far less likely to have health insurance, and far more likely to work in “essential” industries with the highest rates of coronavirus exposure and transmission. It is no surprise then, according to the CDC, that COVID-19 inflicts “a disproportionate burden of illness and death among racial and ethnic minority groups.”"

It would be disingenous to say Bernie wasn't the biggest proponent of Medicare for All in the modern era which directly addresses this.

"and it is impossible to deny the many ways in which our extreme inequality—an exceptionally American affliction—has made the virus more deadly and its economic consequences more dire than in any other advanced nation."

I'm just a dumb Canadian though.

"By this measure we can see that in real dollars, women and nonwhites have actually lost more income to rising inequality than white men, because starting from their disadvantaged positions in 1975, they had far more to potentially gain."

It would be disingenous to say Bernie wasn't the biggest proponent of income redistribution through fairer taxing and increasing the minimum wage and putting a cap on credit card interest rates and postal banking in the modern era which directly addresses this.

"—for not only have workers without a degree secured none of the gains from four decades of economic growth, below the 50th percentile they’ve actually seen their real incomes decline. College educated workers are doing better."

It would be disingenous to say Bernie wasn't the biggest proponent of free college and trade school and the elimination of student debt in the modern era which directly addresses this. From this article by the brilliant Briahna Joy Gray "Although there is a black-white college graduation gap, black Americans actually apply to and enroll in college at higher rates than white Americans. Why don’t we matriculate? An inability to pay ranks high among the reasons. And black students carry a disproportionate amount of scholastic debt — more than any other group." https://theintercept.com/2018/08/26/beware-the-race-reductionist/


"This is an America in which 47 percent of renters are cost burdened, in which 40 percent of households can’t cover a $400 emergency expense, in which half of Americans over age 55 have no retirement savings at all."

Not only does this sound like a direct excerpt from a Bernie speech but he had policies to have a national rent freeze, to end homelessness and to increase Social Security.

"This is an America in which 28 million have no health insurance, and in which 44 million underinsured Americans can’t afford the deductibles or copays to use the insurance they have."

Straight from his speeches again.

"No, this upward redistribution of income, wealth, and power wasn’t inevitable; it was a choice—a direct result of the trickle-down policies we chose to implement since 1975."

People chose to vote in those politicians which did this and people had a chance to change that in 2016 and 2020, is that a win for the people or a win for the elites?

"We chose to cut taxes on billionaires and to deregulate the financial industry. We chose to allow CEOs to manipulate share prices through stock buybacks, and to lavishly reward themselves with the proceeds."

Obama made Bush's tax cuts permanent and had Citigroup pick his cabinet and Bernie has a bill to stop stock buybacks.

"We chose to erode the minimum wage and the overtime threshold and the bargaining power of labor. For four decades, we chose to elect political leaders who put the material interests of the rich and powerful above those of the American people."

And "we" did it again. It would be disingenous to say Bernie wasn't the biggest proponent of $15 hour min wage and the fiercest advocate for unions in the modern era which directly addresses this. Again I make Bernie's movement sound special because it was. There's a reason that there was so much excitement around him because he offered a new vision, or actually an old vision of FDR and the New Deal (minus the obvious racial problems it entailed) that this article pined for. It was a missed opportunity of epic proportions to improve the material conditions of so many and I hope I don't have to wait another lifetime for a chance to see it happen again.


  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
19796 posts
Fri Sep-18-20 10:32 AM

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37. "I'm not reading another word you type that's not about white supremacy"
In response to Reply # 36
Fri Sep-18-20 10:32 AM by MEAT

  

          

Fuck you, you racist piece of shit.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
213 posts
Fri Sep-18-20 10:45 AM

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39. "Good talk"
In response to Reply # 37


          

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6031 posts
Fri Sep-18-20 12:34 PM

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40. "you only appear to make half baked posts."
In response to Reply # 34


          

when i engage you directly, you run off like a child. what do you want?



"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Rjcc
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Thu Sep-17-20 03:40 PM

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28. "y'all will notice that they always have a black guy to blame"
In response to Reply # 24


          

at some point.

probably when they turn on you

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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Thu Sep-17-20 04:05 AM

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22. "who scoffed at him?"
In response to Reply # 1


          

cats tried to point out the flaws in his campaign and that maybe he wasn't the best candidate for his claimed message

but he ran anyway, ran the way he did with those fuckin people in his campaign that were in it

and lost


but y'all are so busy patting yourselves on the back for being good leftists that you don't ask why

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6031 posts
Fri Sep-18-20 12:47 PM

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42. "those fucking people, like who?"
In response to Reply # 22


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20773 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 02:39 PM

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8. "I read something similar about the same stats"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Sep-16-20 02:39 PM by auragin_boi

  

          

basically said that the avg American salary should be 6 figures right now if it was based on the purchasing power of 1960's jobs.

I was floored.

So this article tracks with that. $50K + $42K + the extra = 6 figures+

____________
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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67184 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 02:58 PM

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12. "Thanks Ronald!!!"
In response to Reply # 8


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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kajsidog
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Wed Sep-16-20 06:59 PM

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16. "I keep a reminder hanging my living room."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Sep-16-20 06:59 PM by kajsidog

  

          

One of my favorite artists (Jeremy Dean) dethreaded a Flag, and using needles mounted them above a print out of the stock pages. It reflects the growth of the top 1% over the last 100 years and hammers home how income inequality erodes America. The following pic and his instagram make more sense of this.

The original piece: https://i2.wp.com/bmoreart.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Dean.png

My print: http://www.staugustinepics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/IMG_20200614_173956-scaled.jpg

He's worth a follow at https://www.instagram.com/jdeanstudio/

See ya, JAK
http://www.staugustinepics.com/

Winner of OKP Second Photo Kontest
Pic #6 http://www.tha-renaissance.com/effstop/kontest2

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19852 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 08:14 PM

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18. "Oh damn. That's dope. I may get one myself."
In response to Reply # 16


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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vik
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Thu Sep-17-20 12:34 AM

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21. "Same nm RE: Oh damn. That's dope. I may get one myself."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

But hell, what do I know?

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15495 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 07:09 PM

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17. "Caping for capitalism"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

folks don't care about this.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130737 posts
Wed Sep-16-20 08:23 PM

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20. "A loud 'God Damn Reagan'...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

a quieter "Goddammit Jimmy, why the fuck did you put Volcker in charge"

and an even louder than either.... "GOD DAMN AMERICA"

with reverb.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
10645 posts
Thu Sep-17-20 03:23 PM

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27. "guillotine."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------

  

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PG
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Thu Sep-17-20 05:57 PM

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31. "there are too many stupid hateful suckers not even trying to see this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's massively depressing.

  

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