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Subject: "Jumping back into the housing market. " Previous topic | Next topic
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 07:25 PM

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"Jumping back into the housing market. "


  

          

Timing seems good, but we'll see what pops up.

We're using the same realtor, same lender, as the first two homes we got, so we have a leg up.

What's sobering is, had we just stayed put with the first home, we'd have equity out the ass right now, and be in position to buy exactly the home we wanted when we sold to begin with. The second was ten mistakes, all rolled into one.

Granted, who knows how other things would have played out had we stayed. But the one thing that stands out is, that first home is now listed at 70K more than what we sold it for, and for the last three years, we've paid 50% more for middling apartments than we were paying for that house, and we have nothing to show for those payments, apart from rental receipts.

The main moral there is, it's better to pay ourselves, by owning a home. Unless, of course, you're upside down with a ridiculous mortgage payment.

Yeah, we're still separated, and we've had some direct discussions that laid to rest any notions of marital reconciliation. Which is fine.

We still look out for each other, still talk to each other, still handle our bills together, still make sure we each have what we need, etc. She still asks if she can get buy new clothes or whatever. yeah, she's dating. It is what it is. We established the rules, and I'm not tripping.

The kids are good, we're all living a solid quality of life that continues to improve, we have freedom to order out, rent movies, buy shit we just plain WANT. We eat well (financially speaking. Nutritionally, I eat horribly, she eats "well", lol.) All our bills are paid, both of our credit is improving. We made a series of mistakes over two years, after our son was born, and we've now successfully dug ourselves out of that hole.

And all of that, we've done together. And, for reasons both practical and ideological, we're both good entering this next phase together.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Not married but buying a house together?
Jul 02nd 2020
1
nope, just a home for us and our kids.
Jul 02nd 2020
3
I need this housing market/bubble to pop in San Diego so I can buy a hou...
Jul 02nd 2020
2
Shit, all of So Cal is crazy right now.
Jul 02nd 2020
11
      This is true but San Diego isn’t slowing down. Not trying to flex but
Jul 02nd 2020
16
           not trying to flex, but....Hulk Out! Cool stats, bro. I'm super impr3sse...
Jul 02nd 2020
18
           bro, did you rip out of your Untuckit Performance Oxford...
Jul 02nd 2020
21
                LOL! My wife and I have been working hard this last decade
Jul 02nd 2020
23
                     Buying near the coast is a lot more money
Jul 02nd 2020
26
                     Bay Ho is more affordable than Bay Park
Jul 02nd 2020
27
                     salute to all that, man...
Jul 02nd 2020
28
                          Thank you brother and I have grinded
Jul 03rd 2020
29
We held off on selling our house
Jul 02nd 2020
4
we're not "together" though.
Jul 02nd 2020
5
      She’s dating but not free to date other people?
Jul 02nd 2020
6
           semantics
Jul 02nd 2020
8
           That's exactly it.
Jul 02nd 2020
9
           infin8 got it. we're not together. We're done.
Jul 02nd 2020
10
                Got it. For the record
Jul 02nd 2020
14
                     Gotcha.
Jul 02nd 2020
15
spending the week at our vacation home....property is on fire here
Jul 02nd 2020
7
Keep that shit!
Jul 02nd 2020
12
Where is your Airbnb property? I’m waiting for the San Diego Airbnb
Jul 02nd 2020
17
      Daufuskie Island South Carolina
Jul 02nd 2020
24
I really wonder if we'll see a housing drop soon
Jul 02nd 2020
13
Agreed. Housing being propped up a bit, similar to the stock market
Jul 02nd 2020
19
it's so weird right now
Jul 02nd 2020
20
Supposedly, that's about to happen toward the end of July.
Jul 02nd 2020
22
The extra $600 for UE ends July 31st
Jul 02nd 2020
25
I should've pulled the trigger in January.
Jul 03rd 2020
30
Jumping back out of the housing market.
Aug 19th 2020
31
realtor is doing the same
Aug 19th 2020
32
Yep. Several of these were at least 50 K over the listed price
Aug 19th 2020
33
      Haha I’m right there with you
Aug 19th 2020
36
           Not a housing market expert but here's a couple big picture things
Aug 20th 2020
41
I've heard similar from a lot of people
Aug 19th 2020
34
Yep, same here. We are getting out and just going to maintain
Aug 19th 2020
35
Stands in this line
Aug 20th 2020
37
How INSANE is this?
Aug 20th 2020
39
we have a tiered economy and I just don't see how it holds up
Aug 20th 2020
47
My wife = the gas. Me = the brake.
Aug 20th 2020
43
Waiting until next year to jump in
Aug 20th 2020
38
That’s the dream. This is our plan as well.
Aug 20th 2020
40
look at this goddamn low key flex.
Aug 20th 2020
44
      We’ve already been in this house for 9 years tho.
Aug 20th 2020
46
Congrats on paying off your mortgage
Aug 20th 2020
42
[Stares in property tax]
Aug 20th 2020
45
How sway? I never understood how people get hemmed up
Aug 21st 2020
48
right
Aug 21st 2020
49
      I can see if you inheritors the house from family
Aug 21st 2020
50
           *inherited* the house
Aug 21st 2020
51
           Escrow probablly gets people used to not directly paying taxes
Aug 21st 2020
55
                Yeah. I do escrow as well
Aug 21st 2020
57
I did this too
Aug 21st 2020
60
Thanks, not quite baller status
Aug 21st 2020
52
      Doesn't matter bro
Aug 21st 2020
59
That's dope as fuck.
Sep 09th 2020
69
The market is so tempting to sell...but I don't want to buy at
Aug 21st 2020
53
U.S. Existing-Home Sales Surged 24.7% in July
Aug 21st 2020
54
This doesn't seem logical to me
Aug 21st 2020
56
I think legs is right
Aug 21st 2020
61
      It would be interesting to see trends by city/region
Aug 21st 2020
62
      What’s the point of living in an expensive city if everything is close...
Aug 22nd 2020
65
           I feel that. I’m working remote right now and saving quite a bit
Aug 22nd 2020
66
                We are getting ready to redo our deck and looking at a prefab
Aug 22nd 2020
67
      My wife and I have been fortunate.. she only lost her side gigs
Aug 22nd 2020
64
If you are blessed to work from home
Aug 21st 2020
58
i believe it
Aug 21st 2020
63
'staggering shortage of homes on the market'
Sep 09th 2020
68
Survey Says: Not anytime soon. Prices are insane.
May 04th 2021
70
I finally have my credit score high enough to consider buying
May 04th 2021
71
      shit's depressing, really
May 04th 2021
73
It's wild out there.
May 04th 2021
72

Mori
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3455 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 12:03 AM

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1. "Not married but buying a house together?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Is this an investment property?

Good to hear adults figure out how to behave in a civil manner and for mutual benefit.

I cannot bring myself to rent. Especially now that the COVID has made it possible to put my mortgage into forbearance, if I want. I can't imagine having to negotiate rent with a landlord.

I am about to make a move and deciding to keep my first home and rent it. As much as selling sounds appealing, housing is just so scarce in big cities. Maybe that will change after COVID.

I think the market will get better and people will feel more inclined to sell when the states have a good handle on what they are going to do.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 12:47 AM

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3. "nope, just a home for us and our kids. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

>Is this an investment property?

No

>Good to hear adults figure out how to behave in a civil manner
>and for mutual benefit.

Yeah. It's not the ideal scenario, but it's the best of all available options.

>I cannot bring myself to rent. Especially now that the COVID
>has made it possible to put my mortgage into forbearance, if I
>want. I can't imagine having to negotiate rent with a
>landlord.

Honestly, this smacked me in the face. After we sold the second one and had to rent, I learned about Market Rate the hard way, after see a jump of over $200 between a quote I recieved Friday afternoon, and the subsequent Saturday morning appointment. They didn't mention market rate pricing when I went in on Friday, and set the appointment for Saturday morning. They told me the price went up like it was nothing.

The apartment we settled on jumped from $1405 to $1685 when. It was time to renew the lease. We found another place that, thankfully, had similar rent, and didn't have such an absurd increase after the year was up.

Meanwhile, home rental prices are as high or higher than what we'd pay for a mortgage.

Each of us having to navigate that separately , whole raising two kids? Fuck all that.

>I am about to make a move and deciding to keep my first home
>and rent it. As much as selling sounds appealing, housing is
>just so scarce in big cities. Maybe that will change after
>COVID.

THIS!! Selling the first proved to be a colossal mistake. If you have a manageable mortgage and you're not stretched thin, it's wise to hold on to it.


>I think the market will get better and people will feel more
>inclined to sell when the states have a good handle on what
>they are going to do.

*supposedly*, from what I've been told, August should be a good start to a friendlier market, at least where I'm at. we should see a significant price decline toward the end of July, when forbearances aexpire. I have to do some research to vet that though.

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
12400 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 12:13 AM

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2. "I need this housing market/bubble to pop in San Diego so I can buy a hou..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Everything in San Diego is expensive right now. I am waiting until December to get qualified for a house loan, get a realtor and really start looking to buy. Hopefully the market will be going down by December.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 12:46 PM

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11. "Shit, all of So Cal is crazy right now."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

SD is higher than a lot of places though.

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
12400 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 02:35 PM

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16. "This is true but San Diego isn’t slowing down. Not trying to flex but"
In response to Reply # 11


          

My wife and I make a combined $192k a year, my credit score is 815, her credit score is 750, debt is low, have $150k saved in the bank and I still feel priced out. Especially in the places we would like to live which is Bay Ho, Bay Park and PB.

I refuse to pay $700k+ to live in Clairemont, Sierra or Kearney Mesa.

So we just sit and wait while stacking more money and pay down more debt.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 02:51 PM

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18. "not trying to flex, but....Hulk Out! Cool stats, bro. I'm super impr3sse..."
In response to Reply # 16
Thu Jul-02-20 02:56 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

>My wife and I make a combined $192k a year, my credit score
>is 815, her credit score is 750, debt is low, have $150k saved
>in the bank and I still feel priced out. Especially in the
>places we would like to live which is Bay Ho, Bay Park and
>PB.

I'm sure you meant well, but that shit is eye roll status. It's a little self indulgent for the post, but good for you.

>I refuse to pay $700k+ to live in Clairemont, Sierra or
>Kearney Mesa.

I mean, I did say SD is higher than most, did I not?

And for all that flexing?

The degree to which you're priced out really isnt dissimilar to the degree to which I'm currently priced out.

The places we'd like, in the areas we'd like, you could walk in and get TODAY, with your, uh, "stats".

Conversely, we have to wait a bit, see if this info is at least somewhat accurate, and we'll squeak through.

And that's not a complaint, a whine, a woe is me. It's just a fact.

Because, point being, you're priced out of what you'd like....because So Cal is priced crazy overall. And, as I said, SD is higher than most.

On a relative scale, where you are and what you'd like to get really isnt much different from where I'm at, and what I'm trying to get. We're both waiting for that change before we jump.

It's still a seller's market. I haven't seen a slowdown yet, however we're working with the same lender we did back in 2010 and 2015, and he's now a branch manager, and he told us that they're expecting a decent drop ip in prices starting mid to late July.

How accurate that is, remains to be seen.

If true, maybe you'll see a decrease out there too.

  

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Dstl1
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51051 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 03:59 PM

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21. "bro, did you rip out of your Untuckit Performance Oxford..."
In response to Reply # 16


          

while typing that?? I'm just messing around, lol.

when I threw the rifle in the river,
it looked like Bol Bol was diving in the river - Action Bronson

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
12400 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 04:45 PM

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23. "LOL! My wife and I have been working hard this last decade"
In response to Reply # 21


          

Beyond that I had to help build my wife’s credit, it was bad when we first met.

We have a 2 years and 7 month old daughter and just had a baby boy on June 3, 2020, so we are really trying to build for their future. That means buying a home, college savings, take them on a vacation or two when they are older, and try to save for our own retirement. This also means our aggressive savings is going to be moderated a bit now that we have a second child.

The growing family means we need more space. We have been together since 2006 and got married in 2014. We have always rented below our means, which meant a modest 1 bedroom apartment and stayed their until our daughter was 6 months and then we moved into a modest 2 bedroom and 2 bathroom apartment. We will stay there for another 6-12 months until the market goes down and while we stack savings and pay debt and then hopefully get into a nice house.

  

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handle
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17195 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 05:36 PM

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26. "Buying near the coast is a lot more money"
In response to Reply # 23


          

Bay Ho hasn't been affordable since 1998 - and I'm assuming you "real" Bay Ho and not Claremont. Gotta spend $1 million for a nice one. And with $192,000 you can afford it - if you have around $200k or a quarter of a million to put down. And you never get laid off. For 30 years. Around $4600 a month.

San Diego is simply no longer affordable.

My condo is inland in Grantville but if I didn't own I'd proabbly move out of state.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
12400 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 06:22 PM

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27. "Bay Ho is more affordable than Bay Park"
In response to Reply # 26


          

And I’m talking real Bay Ho and not west Clairemont that some real estate agent is trying to convince non SD residents that wear Clairemont is Bay Ho. I think Bay Ho was fairly affordable back during the 08 housing market crash but I was too young and not established career or financially to buy at that time.

I work for a local tribal government so I feel my job is mostly safe, no job is ever 100% safe but I feel secure. My wife works at the Research Foundation at SDSU so she feels fairly safe and secure.

I just need a $800K to $900k home to dip to $675k to $750k and I’ll pull the trigger. I just need to hit that 20% down to avoid PMI because fuck that.

  

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Dstl1
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51051 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 07:41 PM

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28. "salute to all that, man..."
In response to Reply # 23


          

takes discipline. Hope you guys get what you truly want, this time around...sounds like you've grinded for it.

when I threw the rifle in the river,
it looked like Bol Bol was diving in the river - Action Bronson

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
12400 posts
Fri Jul-03-20 12:20 AM

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29. "Thank you brother and I have grinded "
In response to Reply # 28


          

Grew up poor my whole life. Not to say I had a bad childhood because I didn’t really know we were poor. I always like to say I was family and friend rich but financially poor.

I am a product of the government. Lived in Section 8 housing apartments, not that I knew what that meant. Public elementary, public junior high, public high school and public university. I didn’t know we were poor. Mom worked hard, dad worked off and on with an addiction problem (drugs and low key gambling) but we always could go to the same beaches (California only has public beaches for the most part) as all the other rich kids and dad always took us for Thrifty ice cream on the way home from the beach in the summer.

Dad was an A+ father but a D+ financial provider. Mom was A+ in both categories. I suppose if you’re going to be great at one thing in this world it should be as a parent.

Anyways, parents never owned a home and only now own one because they inherited my grandparents.

I am determined to own my own home in San Diego. I was born in San Diego, raised in San Diego, educated in the Bay Area and I will die and be laid to rest in power in San Diego.

But in the meantime I’m trying to clime a few rungs on this financial ladder for my kids.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 05:46 AM

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4. "We held off on selling our house"
In response to Reply # 0


          

We are in the process of refinancing to a 10 year mortgage.

Stating together for the kids and dating other people? Wow. Thats all I got to say about that.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 09:06 AM

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5. "we're not "together" though. "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>We are in the process of refinancing to a 10 year mortgage.
>
>Stating together for the kids and dating other people? Wow.
>Thats all I got to say about that.

We're over with, as a couple. So we're not free to date "other" people, we're free to just *date*.

We don't need to remain romantically involved in order to remain family, which we are. Our relationship has simply taken a different form.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 09:55 AM

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6. "She’s dating but not free to date other people? "
In response to Reply # 5


          

I’m confused.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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infin8
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Thu Jul-02-20 11:30 AM

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8. "semantics"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

dating 'other people' implies that 'she and i are still together' - which we are not.


so it's not 'dating other people', it's just dating.


or should I just mind my business cuz you wasnt talking to me noway

IG: amadu_me

"...Whateva, man..." (c) Redman

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Jul-02-20 12:37 PM

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9. "That's exactly it."
In response to Reply # 8
Thu Jul-02-20 12:48 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

Though, IMO that's a significant distinction, not just a tomato/tomahtoe hair split

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 12:44 PM

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10. "infin8 got it. we're not together. We're done."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

We *live* together and handle family business together. Because we're still a family. She and I don't need to be "together" for us to be a family.

Since she and I aren't together, there is no dating "other" people. it's just dating. You phrased it as, we stayed together for the kids but are free to date other people, which is not the case. That's loaded language.

Our family is still together.

She and I are not.

She and I are free to do as we please, *because* we're not together. It's not an an open relationship, which is what is implied by "staying together and dating other people.

Are you still confused?

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 02:21 PM

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14. "Got it. For the record"
In response to Reply # 10


          

I meant staying “together” in the same house for the kids.. not together as a couple.



****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 02:32 PM

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15. "Gotcha. "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

But yeah, she can date whoever. As can I.

There's no indication that she has any interest in rebuilding our marital relationship, which means I have no interest in trying to find solutions to make that happen, so there's no point in holding either of us hostage.

But that also means there's no reason to disrupt our family stability and lower our overall quality of life, all because we can't find a way to have a fulfilling marital relationship.

The only reason to do that would pride and ego.

  

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tomjohn29
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Jul-02-20 10:13 AM

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7. "spending the week at our vacation home....property is on fire here"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

we purchased for 500k in 2014
probably could get 700k today
but that airbnb money is jumping
looking to upgrade our primary to a bigger home...but havent seen anything that has moved me

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 12:50 PM

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12. "Keep that shit!"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

lmao. Especially with 6 years of paying down that 500K.

And you're getting paid off airbnb?

That's about as good a position as you could want, I'd think.

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
12400 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 02:38 PM

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17. "Where is your Airbnb property? I’m waiting for the San Diego Airbnb "
In response to Reply # 7


          

Market to go bust and people to start listing their 2nd, 3rd, 4th Airbnb investment because they are over leveraged. We will see if that happens in the fall, especially if tourism and summer rental market doesn’t materialize here in San Diego due to Covid.

  

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tomjohn29
Member since Oct 18th 2004
16536 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 05:18 PM

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24. "Daufuskie Island South Carolina"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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handle
Charter member
17195 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 01:18 PM

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13. "I really wonder if we'll see a housing drop soon"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Look, we're at 14%-12% unemployment.

There is a plague going on.

And Trump will hopefully lose. When he loses the stock brokers and bankers will feel super bummed out and afraid. (Because their perfections of the future are irrational - it's based on how THEY feel.)

So I really think housing prices are going to tumble . They should be tumbling NOW - but again, it's about perception.

We'll see.


------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5414 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 02:53 PM

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19. "Agreed. Housing being propped up a bit, similar to the stock market"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

We've cut interest rates so low, combined w/some other risk factors, so now bonds, etc. which are normally the 'safe' investment are a losing proposition. Feels like investors moving money to stocks, real estate, etc. cuz they have to right now, and sort of artificially inflating value in those markets. (disclaimer: This is all very stupid an amateur speculation on my part)

Low interest rate home loans keeping this shit afloat right now too. It feels like a couple of ticks upwards in interest rate, pending foreclosures, and a trump L on election night (not to mention the ongoing pandemic) could send prices downward pretty quickly. I really want to get a house in the near future, but it feels like jumping in right now would be a great way to find myself underwater a couple hundred grand 6 months from now.

If i had a house right now, I'd either sit tight and live in that muhfucker or cash out if it was an investment property.

>So I really think housing prices are going to tumble . They
>should be tumbling NOW - but again, it's about perception.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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Boogiedwn
Member since Sep 25th 2003
8676 posts
Thu Jul-02-20 03:44 PM

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20. "it's so weird right now"
In response to Reply # 13
Thu Jul-02-20 03:44 PM by Boogiedwn

  

          

People are buying, refinancing and filing in high rates for mortgage deferments. The whole housing sector is seeing crazy business. Which as noted above is propped up. That last part is what is scaring me (the deferments).

_______________________
We rationalize dumb shit

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Jul-02-20 04:02 PM

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22. "Supposedly, that's about to happen toward the end of July. "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

I was told that from a lender with whom we have a longstanding relationship. I'm not up enough on the inner workings to know what should cause that to happen and how it relates to the current situation, so I'm leaning entirely on that information.

We're looking to get an offer in by the beginning of September, so we're anticipating seeing those decreases start to gain steam toward the end of August.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu Jul-02-20 05:27 PM

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25. "The extra $600 for UE ends July 31st"
In response to Reply # 13


          

It’s going to get ugly if they don’t extend it or have another round of payments.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
22996 posts
Fri Jul-03-20 01:55 AM

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30. "I should've pulled the trigger in January."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The 2 properties I viewed in January (same subdivision) have sold and other ones for sale in that subdivision are going for $20K more than what they were in January.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Wed Aug-19-20 03:11 PM

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31. "Jumping back out of the housing market. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Basically, I'm seeing the opposite of our realtor and her branch manager son said would happened.

Few of those lower-priced homes entered the market, amd we haven't seen the flood of them on the market.

There's no inventory, and everything we've seen that fits what we want within our range turns out to have a much higher asking price.

This is because every home has multiple prospective buyers, resulting in bidding wars.

I dipped my toe into the foreclosure market, and that's much more work than I want to invest in this right now. Our finances are solid right now, but with overall uncertainty looming with COVID, and the fact that there are virtually no good options that don't put us at the absolute high end of our comfort zone, at best....we decided to rock with the status quo for now.

My realtor responded with all manor of desperation to keep us in the market. She's a little close to losing our commission when we finally do buy, but she's ignoring the "our overall best interest" part of this in favor of "the interest rates won't be this low forever!"

Our original plan was next summer/autumn, so we're still on track for that original plan, though we expect to revisit this after the new year.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Wed Aug-19-20 04:54 PM

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32. "realtor is doing the same"
In response to Reply # 31


          


talking a big game on interest rates, which I get.


but low rates + low price is better than low rates + bidding wars


I'm far from an expert...any ideas when the market will go down?


  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Wed Aug-19-20 05:17 PM

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33. "Yep. Several of these were at least 50 K over the listed price"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Which is fine, can't be mad at the seller.

But I hate these ignorant ass sales approaches.

Sure, you need to shell out an additional 60K over listing just to have a shot because options are limited, but if you get it, think of the savings on interest!

Sure, let me obliterate my debt-to-credit ratio so I can overpay like crazy in the process! Where do I sign?

I gave her a pretty clean break down of why we're bowing out, but she couldn't put the sales tact down. She started sending me condos, which listed were at the top of our range, because there was no bidding war.

They were nice, and big.

And they had a $350 HOA.

So I explained that these would already max out our price range without the HOA, so the HOA kills it even if we were interested.

She says... well yeah, a lot of places have an HOA.SMH

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4182 posts
Wed Aug-19-20 07:38 PM

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36. "Haha I’m right there with you"
In response to Reply # 33


          


Not to mention, my luck I’d over pay right before
the market crashes too.

About ready to switch realtors or just pause altogether.

Wish I knew someone who was a housing market
expert that wasn’t trying to sell me something.

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Thu Aug-20-20 09:53 AM

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41. "Not a housing market expert but here's a couple big picture things"
In response to Reply # 36


          

>
>Not to mention, my luck I’d over pay right before
>the market crashes too.
>
>About ready to switch realtors or just pause altogether.
>
>Wish I knew someone who was a housing market
>expert that wasn’t trying to sell me something.

Rates are going to stay low for the forseeable future as a way of limiting the impact of the COVID-motivated economic shutdown.

Low interest rates help keep house prices high and the uncertainty with everything right now keeps inventory down by scaring people from taking on extra financial burden with a new, more expensive house.

But alot of people don't have jobs. And one of the reasons we haven't seen mass evictions and foreclosures is because the government hasn't been allowing them to even happen. Plus, they juiced unemployment benefits to the point some people are even making more now than they did with a job.

The moratoriums and benefits are starting to end... and we're likely not completely done with COVID.

So my belief is that local areas that have a large percentage of workers in the service sector are going to see the brunt of foreclosures. Even if there isn't a second wave and shutdown, it's going to be awhile until alot of those jobs come back because much of the service sector just won't be allowed to open back to full strength (and people would be wary of using them even if they were fully open).

The only way property values stay up in those areas is if investors come in an snap them all up (and there are many people who intend on doing just that).

I think areas with a higher percentage of white collar workers will be more insulated but not immune.

Beyond a couple years, though, who knows what could happen. Some people think a depression, others think hyper inflation.

Either way, I believe there's a high risk that people buying right now are buying in at a market top... but it's manageable risk if its a house and a payment you wouldn't mind being "stuck" in for a decade or more.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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Rjcc
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Wed Aug-19-20 07:30 PM

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34. "I've heard similar from a lot of people"
In response to Reply # 31


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
12400 posts
Wed Aug-19-20 07:38 PM

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35. "Yep, same here. We are getting out and just going to maintain "
In response to Reply # 31


          

The status quo here as well.

Just going to keep saving and paying down debt while we wait.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Thu Aug-20-20 08:36 AM

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37. "Stands in this line"
In response to Reply # 35


          

We were going to upgrade houses but came to our senses and chose to refi and sit out asses down.

Going to aggressively pay this mortgage down for the next 5 years and put more sweat equity into it.


****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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handle
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17195 posts
Thu Aug-20-20 09:02 AM

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39. "How INSANE is this?"
In response to Reply # 31


          

Millions of Americans lose their jobs and the housing market is completely unaffected?

It's crazy.

San Diego has 330 pre-foreclosure results on Zillow:
https://www.zillow.com/san-diego-ca/foreclosures/

I guess when/if Biden wins the market can crash so they can blame it on that.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Rjcc
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Thu Aug-20-20 11:02 PM

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47. "we have a tiered economy and I just don't see how it holds up"
In response to Reply # 39


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
21822 posts
Thu Aug-20-20 09:25 PM

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43. "My wife = the gas. Me = the brake. "
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

wife is like, "let's gooo-ooooooh! these interest rates is good!"

and I'm like "yeah but...fuck what you heard, we're in the dark about where things are headed."

then we get into a dumb argument because she thinks I'm trying to hold the family back and then I think shes trying to make us intentionally house poor.


we already own a property in the next city over and it was paying for itself via airbnb/rentals until covid hit. It's still going but its a thinned out shell of where it was and where it was going. We moved to an apartment in the next city over so she could be close to her new job - she feels like renting is throwing money away, I feel like we gotta hold the position until we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

The market is super hot - I talked about this in another thread but it reached a point where we were a full on 200k above where we first started.

We eventually had to talk ourselves down because even at that point we were about to drop an offer that was another 50k over asking on top of being in a whole other bracket. I said "baby...uhh...how we gonna pay for this?".


The market has been crazy. We kept getting outbid and outbid and outbid. We would get into the final round but we lacked that extra thing that got us to the next round. With one home, we straight up got into top 3. The seller sent over a disclosure and HUGE condition that no lead testing or environmental testing occur in transaction. FUCK NO, we got young kids man. We noped out of that shit quickly even though it was pretty much the most ideal place to have.

I'm thinking some bad shit is around the corner but I can't identify it outright - it's just intuition. My spidey senses have been going crazy since...May. I'm thinking, these low interest rates are fucking trap if your'e not a liquid HNWI.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
3844 posts
Thu Aug-20-20 08:45 AM

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38. "Waiting until next year to jump in"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I have my mortgage paid off now which is nice to save up that money now before starting another. I am planning on keeping my old house and renting it out. Completely debt free at the moment and that is a great feeling.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Thu Aug-20-20 09:25 AM

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40. "That’s the dream. This is our plan as well. "
In response to Reply # 38


          

We have a 10 year mortgage and should be able to pay it off in 9. Definitely trying to keep this house as a rental if and when we move.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
21822 posts
Thu Aug-20-20 09:27 PM

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44. "look at this goddamn low key flex. "
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

10 year mortgage? Goddamn. Either ya'll balling or you playing the game in vicious mode where the aim is to stack them chippy chips and them coin yoin yoins.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Thu Aug-20-20 10:21 PM

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46. "We’ve already been in this house for 9 years tho. "
In response to Reply # 44


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2697 posts
Thu Aug-20-20 09:59 AM

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42. "Congrats on paying off your mortgage"
In response to Reply # 38


          

That's a fucking achievement. I'm "debt free" aside from my house. I can't imagine how great it must be to not have to pay mortgage or rent anymore. That's true baller shit.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
21822 posts
Thu Aug-20-20 09:27 PM

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45. "[Stares in property tax]"
In response to Reply # 42
Thu Aug-20-20 09:29 PM by double negative

  

          

maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.

property taxes will fuck you up. they can be as high as a one br apt in a major city.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 07:44 AM

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48. "How sway? I never understood how people get hemmed up "
In response to Reply # 45


          

Maybe it’s the false sense of security since the house is laid off but if you paid mortgage all their years how can it be so hard to pay property taxes which are a fraction of a mortgage payment in most cases?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4033 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 07:58 AM

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49. "right"
In response to Reply # 48


          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 08:40 AM

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50. "I can see if you inheritors the house from family"
In response to Reply # 49


          

and know nothing about taxes or there are back taxes and you are playing catch up.

But if you paid $3500 for mortgage and now all you have to pay $400 in taxes each month or whatever the cost is.. how the hell do you fuck that up and not come out ahead of the game?


****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 09:13 AM

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51. "*inherited* the house "
In response to Reply # 50


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
12973 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 10:26 AM

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55. "Escrow probablly gets people used to not directly paying taxes"
In response to Reply # 50
Fri Aug-21-20 10:27 AM by flipnile

          

>But if you paid $3500 for mortgage and now all you have to pay
>$400 in taxes each month or whatever the cost is.. how the
>hell do you fuck that up and not come out ahead of the game?


Taxes for the house are rolled into my mortgage, so I don't really see them (tho I keep track of how much it is every year). I own a lot too, and I just get a bill every year for that. It's less than $200 so it's easy to just handle it, but if it was $2k it might be a problem.

I'd probably set up an escrow for property taxes and insurance if my crib was paid off for that reason.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 11:11 AM

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57. "Yeah. I do escrow as well"
In response to Reply # 55


          

but once it’s paid off it’s really about setting up your own escrow or account to set that money aside. I guess some people tell themselves they will have no problem paying it and then life happens.
M

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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handle
Charter member
17195 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 12:41 PM

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60. "I did this too"
In response to Reply # 45


          

Paid off mortgage in 2018.

Still leaves HOA monthly fees - and property taxes.

I keep a separate savings account and put in the money as if it were an escrow account for the property taxes.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
3844 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 09:16 AM

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52. "Thanks, not quite baller status"
In response to Reply # 42
Fri Aug-21-20 09:17 AM by go mack

  

          

My house is def a starter home, bought for 80,000 11 years ago now. Also my mom passed in October leaving some money which helped me pay it off as crazy as it sounds, I still had about 60,000 on it paying mortgage 10 years, mainly just interest and taxes it was going towards.

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2697 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 11:22 AM

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59. "Doesn't matter bro"
In response to Reply # 52


          

its a big accomplishment either way. Pat yourself on the back.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Wed Sep-09-20 04:45 PM

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69. "That's dope as fuck."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

Debt free, while owning property?

There's ALWAYS a level of measure of baller status with that.

Take pride in that shit. Good on you for making that happen.

  

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soulfunk
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Fri Aug-21-20 10:08 AM

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53. "The market is so tempting to sell...but I don't want to buy at"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the inflated prices. We have a little over 100k in equity in our house right now because of how inflated the market is. We could sell and then have a really nice downpayment to upgrade, but I don't know how much sense it would make buying a house that also has an inflated price. That being said, since we wouldn't be selling that new house for decades, and the interest rates are so low, maybe it doesn't matter if the price is inflated right now?

  

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handle
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17195 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 10:22 AM

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54. "U.S. Existing-Home Sales Surged 24.7% in July"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://news.yahoo.com/us-existing-home-sales-surge-144613658.html

Sales of existing US homes surged a record 24.7 percent in July, the second straight record-breaking month amid a boom in sales nationwide, the National Association of Realtors (NAR) said Friday.

Sales of single-family homes, townhomes, condominiums and co-ops jumped to a seasonally-adjusted annual rate of 5.86 million in July, as all regions saw double-digit increases compared to June, NAR said.

After dipping in April and May amid the pandemic shutdowns, sales resumed their upward climb in June, fueled by low borrowing rates.

"The housing market is well past the recovery phase and is now booming with higher home sales compared to the pre-pandemic days," NAR Chief Economist Lawrence Yun said in the release.

He attributed some of the gains to "the sizable shift in remote work" causing some homeowners to look for larger homes.

Last month's increase put sales up 8.7 percent compared to July 2019 -- and only the Northeast experienced a year-over-year decline, according to the report.

Amid the high demand and continued low supply of homes, the median sales prices continued to move higher, increasing 8.5 percent in the month to $304,100.

The inventory of homes available for sale fell 2.6 percent compared to June and is down more than 21 percent from a year ago.

Other housing indicators have been booming as well, including new home sales, housing construction, homebuilder confidence and mortgage applications tallied by the Mortgage Bankers Association.

MBA chief economist Mike Fratantoni said "even with the recent pickup in the pace of homebuilding, the lack of inventory is going to continue to be a hurdle by limiting some prospective buyers' choices and weakening their purchasing power."

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5414 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 10:43 AM

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56. "This doesn't seem logical to me"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

Again, I'm no expert, but how does skyrocketing unemployment and underemployment support growth in the market? I get that it's propped up by low mortgage rates and possibly a shift to remote work, but I can't trust this. I'm also curious who is doing most of the home buying - is it home owners or investors? It feels like we're playing by some new rules that no one told me about.

I'm gonna hold on to my cash a little longer and see how this plays out.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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Rjcc
Charter member
93426 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 05:10 PM

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61. "I think legs is right"
In response to Reply # 56


          

because I'm seeing it all over the place with people I talk to

as bad as things are, there are people who are pretty isolated (so far) from the layoffs and everything. they've got the money, their jobs let them work from home and they're ready to spend

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5414 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 05:36 PM

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62. "It would be interesting to see trends by city/region"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

if the 'work from home theory' is correct, then it seems like metros might be flat or even hurting while the burbs are back on the come up.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Sat Aug-22-20 08:13 AM

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65. "What’s the point of living in an expensive city if everything is close..."
In response to Reply # 62


          

Might as well move into a house with more room and a yard.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5414 posts
Sat Aug-22-20 11:29 AM

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66. "I feel that. I’m working remote right now and saving quite a bit"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

Looking for something w more space for the fam

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Sat Aug-22-20 11:32 AM

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67. "We are getting ready to redo our deck and looking at a prefab"
In response to Reply # 66


          

studio for the back yard for more space.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Sat Aug-22-20 08:06 AM

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64. "My wife and I have been fortunate.. she only lost her side gigs"
In response to Reply # 61


          

add in not having to pay daycare and not driving or eating out as much.. we’ve been stacking.

We’ve finally been approved for our refi and one of the reasons that took so long is the amount of people refinancing and buying houses.

I’ve also had a few coworkers sell their houses and it didn’t take anytime for them to sell. Maybe 30 days at most.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69452 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 11:18 AM

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58. "If you are blessed to work from home"
In response to Reply # 54


          

You are making more money and the rates are in your favor.

I think it’s mostly the well off or stable people in cities moving.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
9896 posts
Fri Aug-21-20 07:05 PM

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63. "i believe it"
In response to Reply # 54
Fri Aug-21-20 07:28 PM by Crash Bandacoot

          

in certain areas. so many people are sitting and waiting to snatch
property and this will continue for a while. these kids out here are
not going to be able to afford homes when they get older. parents will
need to help them out. hoards of people over here trying to "live a
better life"

link to the migration map from 2019, wish it was up to date:
https://www.northamerican.com/migration-map

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Wed Sep-09-20 04:44 PM

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68. " 'staggering shortage of homes on the market'"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/zillow-economist-theres-a-staggering-shortage-of-homes-on-the-market-182341131.html

Despite an economic downturn this summer, a homebuying frenzy boosted home prices by almost 9% and drove available housing inventory down 30% in August compared to the same time last year, according to Zillow.

A foreclosure moratorium on federally-backed mortgages (now extended through December 31), which was designed to keep people in their homes during the coronavirus pandemic, has inflated the housing market, according to economists.

“That is a whole bunch of inventory , which would normally actually be selling at fire sale prices. Where instead — and I mean this is great news for those folks, that they can hunker down they can stay put — but it is actually kind of locking up a lot of home inventory,” Jeff Tucker, economist at Zillow, told Yahoo Finance’s The Final Round.

In the Great Recession of 2008, banks foreclosed on almost 2% of houses in the U.S., unleashing a glut of houses onto the market and causing home prices to plummet. But today the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act instituted protections to keep people in their homes during the coronavirus pandemic, offering foreclosure moratoriums and mortgage forbearance options for homes with federally-backed mortgages.

“I think that's probably one of the biggest things stopping home sales right now,” said Tucker.

As the economy recovers, some 7% of mortgages are still in forbearance, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association, a Washington, D.C.-based professional organization. But forbearance and foreclosure protections won’t last forever, and for many homeowners, mortgage payments are stacking up — which could spell uncertainty for the housing market next year.

Mortgage forbearance is “going to expire for a lot — millions — of homeowners in March, April, May of next year. It's a really big open question. How many of those folks are back in work by then? How many of them are able to get back on track with their mortgage payments?” said Tucker.

But these protections aren’t the only reason housing supply is so low. The U.S. has had an affordable housing shortage for more than a decade, and now 5 million millennials (age 26 to 35) are reaching the age where they want to buy, fueling demand.

Plus, demand skyrocketed this summer beyond what was predicted: pending sales in the last week of August were up 19% from the same time last year. Shutdowns this spring created pent-up demand that pushed peak homebuying season into late summer and early fall. And lifestyle changes during the pandemic have prompted many city dwellers to move to the suburbs.

“A lot of the sales that would have happened in March and April are getting pushed back later into summer. And especially since a lot of people have kids just at home doing remote school, they're more willing to continue shopping and make that big move in September or October at this point,” said Tucker.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
42004 posts
Tue May-04-21 04:18 PM

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70. "Survey Says: Not anytime soon. Prices are insane."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

There seem to be conflicting takes on whether this is a bubble or not.

This shit makes me sick to my stomach, because I'm inclined to believe that this isn't a bubble for a lot of reasons, and there's no major factors on the horizon that I can see that will result in a significant drop.

These local prices have increased dramatically. One particular home in a brand new neighborhood went from 380 or so when I started this post, to 475 right today. Everything left in older neighborhoods starts at 400k, and there's nothing remotely worth owning for that amount.

Renting is already a bitch, and I don't see any improvements on that front. The current ownership where we are gave us a solid offer, which was immediately rescinded. Come to find out, it's because they can only raise it a certain amount within a year's time, because they need to "recalculate" the offer.

It's whatever. I'm not holding my breath and I've already begun searching, just in case. They're required to provide 60 days notice, in the event that they want to give us the boot in order to get a new tenet at a much higher rate than they can raise it to a present tenet.

All in all though, this housing market looks to get much worse-if you're a prospective buyer, or better, if you're a home owner with equity-until something happens to bring things back down to Earth.

I'm just glad we're stable and in a place where we can, within reason, manage such swings. Plenty of people can't without making huge quality of life sacrifices.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
13971 posts
Tue May-04-21 04:34 PM

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71. "I finally have my credit score high enough to consider buying"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

I would think it would need to stay high for some amount of period to get a good rate but no idea if that's true.

I want to save more for a downpayment. Maybe this shortage is good to keep me disciplined and wait until I do save more.

There are almost no rentals and no affordable ones. Hopefully my landlord doesn't trip and decide to kick me lol

I do want to find a new place that I can make my own but I can wait.

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5414 posts
Tue May-04-21 05:45 PM

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73. "shit's depressing, really"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

I got some money in my pocket and credit score is on point. I can't compete w/cash bids over market, though.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
40994 posts
Tue May-04-21 04:34 PM

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72. "It's wild out there."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My wife's a realtor. She lost recently on a house in Pasadena with an offer more than 500k over asking.

We bought our house in 2018. There's zero chance we could get it now.

------------------------------
'19-'20 Bubble Lakers

X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X

2020 NBA Champions

  

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