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Subject: "White OKP Roll Call" Previous topic | Next topic
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Sun Jun-21-20 06:00 PM

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"White OKP Roll Call"


          

Alot of white people post on this board (many under the cover of anonymity) and oftentimes have felt very comfy to offer critiques about issues that directly affect the lives and livelihood of Black people...

with that said, the world is now seemingly (read: seemingly) starting to reckon with how insidious systemic and widespread racism and anti-Blackness is...

For the white people that post here..who are you? are you allies to this struggle? are you truly doing the work of wrestling with how you benefit from your privilege and taking actions to unlearn your internalized white supremacy and be more antiracist?

If the answer is yes, and you have the courage, please reveal yourself and talk about it. How have you stepped up in this moment? What more would you like to be able to do? How are you educating yourself?

I'm really interested in what y'all have to say on this here majority Black message board...

d

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
*raises hand*
Jun 22nd 2020
1
Thanks for responding
Jun 22nd 2020
5
very thorough response...I appreciate all the detail
Jun 22nd 2020
12
RE: very thorough response...I appreciate all the detail
Jun 22nd 2020
17
your mother was fruitful...
Jun 22nd 2020
19
      I appreciate your kind words.
Jun 22nd 2020
24
           she stood out to me...
Jun 23rd 2020
39
                I hear you. I argue with some friends I grew up with.
Jun 24th 2020
50
                     I think you can have the discussion with them...
Jun 24th 2020
52
                          Yea I think so too. Like you said I just need to figure out an ...
Jun 24th 2020
53
they're quiet until it's time to argue about politics
Jun 22nd 2020
2
TBF, I wouldn't fall for this trap if I were them either.
Jun 22nd 2020
3
its not a trap. And I hope they ignore y'all and talk to ME
Jun 22nd 2020
4
      me too...
Jun 22nd 2020
7
lol kinda true tho
Jun 22nd 2020
10
Half white, half Mexican. And I don't do nearly enough.
Jun 22nd 2020
6
i remember deadzombie. you should've been banned for that.
Jun 22nd 2020
8
I got dirt on you doggie
Jun 22nd 2020
11
please find a better hobby.
Jun 22nd 2020
21
      so you have multiple personalities?
Jun 22nd 2020
26
           yawn
Jun 22nd 2020
27
                send me your phone number again
Jun 22nd 2020
28
well he wasn't and he's owned it. Move on, please thanks
Jun 22nd 2020
14
this wasn't a snark, or a dig. historical wrongs are bring righted every...
Jun 22nd 2020
20
      You know what? youre absolutely right.
Jun 22nd 2020
23
wait what did happen there?
Jun 23rd 2020
29
      you just replied to Deadzombie
Jun 23rd 2020
30
      K, but that doesn't answer the question
Jun 23rd 2020
31
           can y'all go to some other post and do this dumb shit please?
Jun 23rd 2020
35
           DZ and a few others used to antagonize CT regularly
Jun 23rd 2020
37
                I have mixed feelings about this analogy
Jun 23rd 2020
41
                lol if its any consolation i love pits more than most people
Jun 23rd 2020
42
                     lmao. all good. I just found some humor in it
Jun 23rd 2020
45
                oh I didn't realize they were ganging up on dude
Jun 24th 2020
49
      DZ also stepped wayyyyyyu out of bounds with family comments
Jul 01st 2020
60
thank you for your searing self-reflection (capital B Black please tho)
Jun 22nd 2020
13
      there's another one. Thank you.
Jun 22nd 2020
16
      See ? Always learning. Capital B it is.
Jun 22nd 2020
18
      wouldn't it be more powerful if he never typed it in the first place?
Jun 22nd 2020
22
           of course but we can't fix the past
Jun 22nd 2020
25
           you cant be a sensitive bully
Jun 23rd 2020
40
           Yes. Absolutely.
Jun 23rd 2020
46
Not white but just wanted to say props for posting this, Damali.
Jun 22nd 2020
9
you're welcome and agreed. its hella important.
Jun 22nd 2020
15
I'm white and I'm here, though not very active much lately
Jun 23rd 2020
32
thanks for your response
Jun 23rd 2020
34
31 years old, Midwestern, classic failing upward type.
Jun 23rd 2020
33
thanks for your honesty and openness. 2 things tho:
Jun 23rd 2020
36
      RE: thanks for your honesty and openness. 2 things tho:
Jul 03rd 2020
71
Need more names.
Jun 23rd 2020
38
I just came in here to scroll and see if Shaun King replied yet
Jun 23rd 2020
43
LOL was he really an okp once? I've heard that somewhere...
Jun 23rd 2020
44
hwhite guy checking in
Jun 23rd 2020
47
Thanks for responding
Jul 01st 2020
55
*raises hand*
Jun 23rd 2020
48
thanks for writing.
Jul 01st 2020
56
Very white here
Jun 24th 2020
51
Excellent..thanks for responding
Jul 01st 2020
57
Need more names
Jun 30th 2020
54
lol
Jul 01st 2020
58
this forum is not as black as i assumed...
Jul 01st 2020
63
      I’ve been saying that for years.
Jul 01st 2020
69
      i assumed it was majority white on principle
Jul 01st 2020
70
mom's side white, dad's side Mexican
Jul 01st 2020
59
this was dope
Sep 29th 2020
73
u white bruh
Sep 30th 2020
77
ive been conflicted about replying
Jul 01st 2020
61
are you from detroit/MI?
Jul 01st 2020
64
nah i just went to college there
Jul 01st 2020
65
      it counts *dap*
Jul 01st 2020
66
           haha
Jul 01st 2020
68
                don't tell anybody
Jul 06th 2020
72
nah you good.
Sep 29th 2020
74
Hi.
Jul 01st 2020
62
word..thanks for replying..this part tho:
Sep 29th 2020
75
I was always more of a Lesson guy
Jul 01st 2020
67
Stringer Bell is white AND proudly racist, y'all.
Sep 30th 2020
76
I've been screaming this for years. I'm glad folks are starting to catc...
Sep 30th 2020
78
      so sorry, bruv. we here now LOL
Sep 30th 2020
79
RE: White OKP Roll Call
Sep 30th 2020
80
Damn if I could write another response this would be it lol.
Sep 30th 2020
81

Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20498 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 11:46 AM

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1. "*raises hand*"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm here, and as far as I remember I've been open and honest about who I am on the board and everywhere else. I'm pretty sure anyone who's ever interacted with me here is well aware that I'm white so I don't think it should be a secret to anyone who's been around.

I hesitate to call myself an "ally" because IMO that's not really for me to decide. I try to just say that I'm always working *toward* being an ally.

I've been on my own journey of unraveling my own privilege and confronting it since at least high school. I learned of police brutality through my love of hip-hop and the culture - which started in elementary school, though I clearly wouldn't have really understood it until about high school or maybe late middle school - and wrote several papers about racism in policing and police brutality starting I believe my sophomore year.

I was then, and am now, far from perfect. So I'm constantly working to recognize and confront my implicit biases, privilege, and actions as I become or am made aware of them. I learned from my 60s-activist mother (god rest her soul) to always have my mind open to new ideas, and to adjust my ideologies and behaviors accordingly.

Re: your point about people like me feeling comfy offering critiques about issues that mostly impact the black community, I try and just listen most of the time. Case in point this very board. I wrestle with myself because I read *all* the posts in their entirety (recent example being the Defund the Police thread you started) but I actively try and stay out of the conversations unless I have a new and/or appropriate perspective to add. Mostly I chime in just to confirm my agreement with points already made. I'm there to listen. But I wrestle with myself because I'm obviously active on the board in general, so I don't want it to appear that my absence in those posts is because I don't care. It's the opposite, I very much do care and am always present in those posts - it's just not my place.

In terms of the work I'm putting in, I can always do more and want to. But my wife and I live in one of the (if not *the*) most diverse neighborhoods in Boston and that was intentional. We wanted to be sure we practiced what we preach. Dating back to 2014 I signed up for and have consistently donated to BLM and several other organizations fighting against systemic racism and for equality and racial justice. I've attended numerous local meetings in my neighborhood about police brutality and racism in Boston many times since we moved to this neighborhood. I've sat down and worked with a friend of my cousin's, who's a councilman in my neighborhood, to support various causes aimed at reforming the police and eradicating racist policies and procedures in the city. I've attended countless rallies and protests and marches since we moved here, including a bunch these past few weeks; one on Juneteenth and a few before that obviously in response to the George Floyd murder. I've canvassed neighborhoods and phonebanked for local and national politicians who fight for racial justice and whose policies align with those ideals, and will again this year.

I'm also obnoxiously loud to both my more conservative friends and family members about these issues. I never, ever let an inappropriate or outright racist comment go unchecked in my presence. I never have. I've lost "friends" over it dating back to college but I've always thought: fuck them if they can't handle it. This is too important. On the other side of the coin, a more conservative/moderate friend of mine who I've argued with for years about politics and systemic racism, recently unenrolled from the republican party and gave me a good deal of credit for that decision. A mutual friend of ours is still firmly in the conservative camp, so now this first friend has joined me in arguing against him and pointing out his biases since he (and I, to some extent in the past) used to share them. Hopefully we'll achieve similar results. We've definitely moved the needle a lot with him in the past month, but there's still a lot of work to do.

I am still learning and always will be, and still want to do more. And like I said, far from perfect. But I'm here and am trying to be active.


>For the white people that post here..who are you? are you
>allies to this struggle? are you truly doing the work of
>wrestling with how you benefit from your privilege and taking
>actions to unlearn your internalized white supremacy and be
>more antiracist?
>
>If the answer is yes, and you have the courage, please reveal
>yourself and talk about it. How have you stepped up in this
>moment? What more would you like to be able to do? How are you
>educating yourself?
>
>I'm really interested in what y'all have to say on this here
>majority Black message board...

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 03:05 PM

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5. "Thanks for responding "
In response to Reply # 1


          

I haven't read your reply yet because I need to leave work right now, but I'll be back to read and engage...I love that you wrote alot!

d

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 06:25 PM

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12. "very thorough response...I appreciate all the detail"
In response to Reply # 1


          

as you can see, it is constant work...for all of us. Thank you so much for being the first to reply and put yourself out there.

Do you have children? If not, i definitely encourage you to mentor young people (if you don't already)...as well as do some more reading and studying specifically around antiracism

I think alot of white people are pretty good at identifying obvious racism but have to work harder to see the subtle things...the microagressions, or need to be centered in conversations and places and ideas

I'm not sure what work you do, but your white male privilege can be a powerful tool to demand inclusiveness and diversity in places where you see it lacking.

Anyway, thanks again for opening up.

d

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20498 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 07:27 PM

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17. "RE: very thorough response...I appreciate all the detail"
In response to Reply # 12


          

>as you can see, it is constant work...for all of us. Thank
>you so much for being the first to reply and put yourself out
>there.
>
>Do you have children? If not, i definitely encourage you to
>mentor young people (if you don't already)...as well as do
>some more reading and studying specifically around antiracism

No children yet - and that's a really good idea. I'll for sure look into that. I have several nieces and nephews who I've mentored a bit on racism and related issues, but I'd love to expand that potential sphere of influence. My oldest nephew and I had a really great chat a couple years ago about Kaepernick and Nike; his mother's (my step sister) boyfriend was going around the house bitching about how they shouldn't wear Nikes anymore because they backed Kaep, so I tried to straighten him out without making things uncomfortable for him with his potential future step-dad.


>I think alot of white people are pretty good at identifying
>obvious racism but have to work harder to see the subtle
>things...the microagressions, or need to be centered in
>conversations and places and ideas

For sure - I only came to learn about and better understand microaggressions more recently (probably around 2014/2015 when the videos of police brutality and murder were coming out en masse) and I continue to learn about more of them on a fairly regular basis. My wife's sister and I had a really good discussion recently about this. She is a speech pathologist in a mostly-black school in my neighborhood in Boston, and she recently learned about a ton of microagressions that she didn't even realize were problematic. It was really great to hear her immediately acknowledging *why* they were problematic and pledging to adjust her own behavior in that regard the more she learns. She also taught me about a couple I hadn't considered.

Something else I've learned more about recently is how a lot of seemingly innocuous "nursery rhymes" that were common in my and our youth have roots in deplorable racism. "Ring around the rosie" and shit like that. I couldn't believe some of the original lyrics to some of these nursery rhymes. Heinous stuff.


>I'm not sure what work you do, but your white male privilege
>can be a powerful tool to demand inclusiveness and diversity
>in places where you see it lacking.

Yea definitely - this is a space I feel like I can work harder to have more of an impact. I really regret not having spoken up more at the first company I worked for out of college; I worked for a major insurance company and my office was like 90% white with no POC in management roles.

My last company had way better representation. It's also a huge company and my office was probably somewhere around 50% black/POC, with appropriate black/POC representation in management positions. That's not to say that there still couldn't have been issues, just that it felt like this particular company was a better representation of the community and promoted and supported diversity.

My current company is really small, and maybe 20-25% black/POC. I feel like this is a place where I can have a more significant impact, just need to do the work.


>Anyway, thanks again for opening up.

Of course. And thank you for the advice/suggestions.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Trinity444
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41394 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 07:54 PM

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19. "your mother was fruitful..."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

you know how they say,“racism is first learned in the home”. Yours is an example of when it’s not. I recognize your fight...




  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20498 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 09:32 PM

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24. "I appreciate your kind words."
In response to Reply # 19


          

>RE: your mother was fruitful...
>you know how they say,“racism is first learned in the
>home”. Yours is an example of when it’s not. I recognize
>your fight...

I was and am very, very fortunate for sure. She was an incredible, beautiful soul and I'm so blessed and proud to be guided by her wisdom and lessons.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Trinity444
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41394 posts
Tue Jun-23-20 01:26 PM

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39. "she stood out to me..."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

I wonder a lot about how certain behaviors are learned.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20498 posts
Wed Jun-24-20 11:34 AM

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50. "I hear you. I argue with some friends I grew up with."
In response to Reply # 39
Wed Jun-24-20 11:35 AM by Brew

          

Same town, played the same sports, our parents hung out with eachother ... who are still resistant to the truth about systemic racism, at least to some extent.

And I wonder how that came to be. We literally grew up in the *exact* same environment, took the same exact classes, were raised by people who were friends and hung out with eachother, etc. And I don't want to say it because it's obviously something that could set someone off, but I want to ask how their parents raised them in regard to race. If they did at all.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Trinity444
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41394 posts
Wed Jun-24-20 07:29 PM

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52. "I think you can have the discussion with them..."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

I have similar friends...we (parents) grew up together. It’s almost like we’re family so I’m not afraid of setting them off, lol. I’d go as far as saying, it would be easier to have an uncomfortable convo with them. it might be different from white folk tho. I think it depends on how you frame your questions. You seem to do a good job at winning folks over...



  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20498 posts
Wed Jun-24-20 08:36 PM

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53. "Yea I think so too. Like you said I just need to figure out an ..."
In response to Reply # 52


          

... appropriate way to frame it. It's not an *inherently* offensive question IMO, if framed correctly. But naturally I think we're all a little defensive of our parents, even if we can and do internally acknowledge their imperfections.


>I have similar friends...we (parents) grew up together.
>It’s almost like we’re family so I’m not afraid of
>setting them off, lol. I’d go as far as saying, it would be
>easier to have an uncomfortable convo with them. it might be
>different from white folk tho. I think it depends on how you
>frame your questions. You seem to do a good job at winning
>folks over...

Wow - that's a really nice thing to say - I appreciate that, and it means a lot coming from you !

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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atruhead
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84940 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 02:11 PM

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2. "they're quiet until it's time to argue about politics"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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45683 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 02:43 PM

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3. "TBF, I wouldn't fall for this trap if I were them either."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 03:03 PM

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4. "its not a trap. And I hope they ignore y'all and talk to ME"
In response to Reply # 3


          

cuz i'm truly interested in what they have to say



d

  

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Trinity444
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Mon Jun-22-20 04:20 PM

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7. "me too..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
30470 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 06:10 PM

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10. "lol kinda true tho"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

they're especially annoying on twitter right now with their Warren > Kamala talk

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41684 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 04:06 PM

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6. "Half white, half Mexican. And I don't do nearly enough."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jun-22-20 04:11 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

Regarding my ethnic makeup and whiteness... frankly, everyone sees me as something different, but that's another topic, unless it's deemed relevant to this.

In the past, I've tried to be a dissenting, educational voice for white and hispanic friends whenever black issues are discussed. That was largely a failed endeavor.

Over the years I just started cutting those people out of my life. Unfortunately, it took far too long for me to remove a couple of folks that were too close for me to easily cut out for good, but I finally did that about two years ago.

Frankly, that was cause for serious self reflection, because there's really no justification for me to maintain relationships with people who will downplay or downright dismiss issues that impact black people. And yet, I still have the odd pang of wanting to reconnect with some of those people. So that's a problem.

The best, and most important thing I can do, is educate my children to black issues. My daughter has already experienced racism from classmates, who in kinder didn't want to hang out with her because she's not white. Thankfully my wife and I had already prepped her for that, and she handled it well.

I reinforce the beauty of her color nightly, with a bedtime song I wrote for her and my son:

She has beautiful brown skin
He has beautiful brown eyes
They have beautiful black hair
They're beautiful, where?
They're beautiful inside

She's 9 now, and has become much more aware of racial discrepancies in media, to the point that she now has a hard time watching anything that doesn't have decent racial inclusion.

But my wife and I both make a conscious choice to ensure they get programming that is inclusive, and she's becoming much more inclined toward media that heavily features and stars black and Hispanic characters.

We- and I have to say we, because I cannot sit here and pretend that my wife is not an equal partner in educating her on these matters, but I am absolutely just as active in this department- also have relatively frequent dialogue on historical black figures, and so she does have a decent working knowledge of Dr King, Rosa Parks, etc.

Yesterday, we watched some material about Juneteenth, and a clip about Officer Clemons from Mr Rogers right after, because she has a hard time with the harsher realities of the relationship America has had with black Americans.

So, educating her to those realities, helping reinforce a positive self image, educating her on colorism within groups so that she doesn't develop a stigma toward those with darker or lighter skin, ensuring that black history is a common discussion topic, helping her understand current events, etc. But I anticipate serious shortcomings on my part, as they grow up.

As an "ally", I don't know. I'm ingrained, and not just with my wife and kids. I suppose, one aspect of being supportive means I don't pepper the black friends I have with conversation about every black issue that arises, because to me that "otherizes" them, for lack of a better term.

I do speak to black friends on issues where I think I may be off base, or over analyzing some shit, or genuinely want their take from their point of view, but that always feels tricky to me, and I never feel good about it when I do, even when I get good feedback.

I've had to reprogram the way I see a lot of shit over the years, and the way I engage. I had to abandon things like the "race card", once I realized the problems with it. I learned that here, on OKP, and I don't let that go unchallenged if it comes up. As time goes on, I allow less and less to go unchallenged.

But I'm still guilty of serious failures. I was speaking to a coworker awhile back, and I said something to the effect of the topic of racism being always there, even beneath the surface. I genuinely can't remember what I said, because the part that stands out is that she told me that because she's black, she can't just table that discussion, because even if she wants to, it's always being shoved in her face, whether she wants it or not.

Yeah, no shit. How easy it is for me to be so cavalier on this subject.

I failed that one like a motherfucker.

Me and Deadzombie had a horrible relationship, and I couldn't stand him, because he would not leave me the fuck alone. So I once told him to go find a cop and reach for his waistband. I'm ashamed of that, and regretted it at the time. I weaponized- and this trivialized- a real issue that he, people here, and people I know and love in my day to day life, faces every day.

An ally doesn't do shit like that.
I learned from it, but that doesn't change the fact that it happened.

All in all, I'm not sure there's a whole lot I do that can't be chalked up to "cute, he's trying". I don't do enough studying, reading and listening to academic black voices. Yes, i listen to my favorite rappers and producers and other pop culture voices on these issues, but I haven't yet gone all in.

Checking Roland Martin or, in my better moments, the occasional Angela Davis talks here and there doesn't cut it.

So I'd classify myself as someone who is falling far short, and needs to do much better.

  

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seemenomore
Member since Jan 01st 2008
217 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 04:27 PM

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8. "i remember deadzombie. you should've been banned for that. "
In response to Reply # 6


          

  

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atruhead
Charter member
84940 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 06:22 PM

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11. "I got dirt on you doggie"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

you make this easy when the same alias fires shots at multiple people you havent liked, and spells "wack" in a weird way


______
seemenomore - seriously listening to music on ig live is whack within itself.

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13384290&mesg_id=13384290&listing_type=search#13384314

--------
Deadzombie - do you, then, exercise your whack sense of control onto others?

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12704648&mesg_id=12704648&listing_type=search#12704844
_______________
Deadzombie - you whack, bro.

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12740306&mesg_id=12740306&listing_type=search#12740307
________
Kwesi - essentially, this launched into a whole thing between the two of us cause i thought she was whack for this pair of emails.

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12995515


  

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seemenomore
Member since Jan 01st 2008
217 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 08:22 PM

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21. "please find a better hobby."
In response to Reply # 11
Mon Jun-22-20 08:23 PM by seemenomore

          

or maybe Damali should instruct you to stay on topic, too.

  

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atruhead
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26. "so you have multiple personalities?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

why are you pretending DeadZombie is a different person?

  

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seemenomore
Member since Jan 01st 2008
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27. "yawn "
In response to Reply # 26


          

  

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atruhead
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28. "send me your phone number again"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Mon Jun-22-20 06:35 PM

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14. "well he wasn't and he's owned it. Move on, please thanks"
In response to Reply # 8


          

we're trying to talk about real shit in here, not snark and dig at mofos

d

  

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seemenomore
Member since Jan 01st 2008
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20. "this wasn't a snark, or a dig. historical wrongs are bring righted every..."
In response to Reply # 14


          

where.

and on a 'black' message board, for a white person to be able to type that out to another member, and it not cause any repercussions? disgusting.

i understand this is your buddy and you're less concerned about the historical damage he's caused - and/but not a single soul checked him on that threat he made to deadzombie that day.

zero souls.

can we type about that?

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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23. "You know what? youre absolutely right."
In response to Reply # 20


          

>where.
>
>and on a 'black' message board, for a white person to be able
>to type that out to another member, and it not cause any
>repercussions? disgusting.

i agree. horrible...and there should have been repercussions...i didn't mean to imply that it didnt matter. just that this post was about 'from now on'...

but you're right to call out the lack of accountability
>
>i understand this is your buddy and you're less concerned
>about the historical damage he's caused

not true...its very concerning, regardless of my friendship with. i hold all my white friends highly accountable

and/but not a single
>soul checked him on that threat he made to deadzombie that
>day.
>
>zero souls.

i have no idea how long ago that was as I didn't see the post but yeah somebody should have checked him.


  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Tue Jun-23-20 12:46 AM

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29. "wait what did happen there?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

free the homie btw

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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atruhead
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30. "you just replied to Deadzombie"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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31. "K, but that doesn't answer the question "
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Tue Jun-23-20 10:18 AM

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35. "can y'all go to some other post and do this dumb shit please?"
In response to Reply # 31


          

i love y'all but damn.

We trying to do some antiracist work up in here.

d

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Jun-23-20 10:36 AM

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37. "DZ and a few others used to antagonize CT regularly"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

a few years back. they knew he had a short fuse, and even if CT would say he's refusing to take the bait they knew if they prodded him enough he'd snap back hard, then they could call him crazy.

i remember likening it to neighborhood kids poking a pit through a fence, then crying victim when he bit them.

i can't speak on the specific incident because i don't remember it but based on the pattern i'd guess that's how it went down. DZ baited him, and CT clearly went waaaay too far (which he owned up to).

would also hope seenomore is DZ because if he's not it would mean he's also complicit in not checking CT on that day.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Jun-23-20 01:50 PM

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41. "I have mixed feelings about this analogy"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

>i remember likening it to neighborhood kids poking a pit
>through a fence, then crying victim when he bit them.

On one hand, you just called me an animal.
That's disrespectful as fuck.

Ont he other, you called me a pit.
And that's some motherfuckin respect.

  

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Mynoriti
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42. "lol if its any consolation i love pits more than most people"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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45. "lmao. all good. I just found some humor in it "
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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49. "oh I didn't realize they were ganging up on dude"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

it was so often and so many back and forths that i kinda checked out


_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32510 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 12:12 PM

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60. "DZ also stepped wayyyyyyu out of bounds with family comments"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

i realize this isnt the point of the post, but it came up and its pertinent info imo

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 06:34 PM

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13. "thank you for your searing self-reflection (capital B Black please tho)"
In response to Reply # 6


          


>As an "ally", I don't know. I'm ingrained, and not just with
>my wife and kids. I suppose, one aspect of being supportive
>means I don't pepper the black friends I have with
>conversation about every black issue that arises, because to
>me that "otherizes" them, for lack of a better term.

This is next level awareness...YES! Not enough white people understand this part..good gracious

>I've had to reprogram the way I see a lot of shit over the
>years, and the way I engage. I had to abandon things like the
>"race card", once I realized the problems with it. I learned
>that here, on OKP, and I don't let that go unchallenged if it
>comes up. As time goes on, I allow less and less to go
>unchallenged.


>Me and Deadzombie had a horrible relationship, and I couldn't
>stand him, because he would not leave me the fuck alone. So I
>once told him to go find a cop and reach for his waistband.
>I'm ashamed of that, and regretted it at the time. I
>weaponized- and this trivialized- a real issue that he, people
>here, and people I know and love in my day to day life, faces
>every day.
>
>An ally doesn't do shit like that.
>I learned from it, but that doesn't change the fact that it
>happened.

Its powerful that you owned this out loud.

>All in all, I'm not sure there's a whole lot I do that can't
>be chalked up to "cute, he's trying". I don't do enough
>studying, reading and listening to academic black voices. Yes,
>i listen to my favorite rappers and producers and other pop
>culture voices on these issues, but I haven't yet gone all in.


not just academic Black voices though...revolutionary ones too...radical ones too..uneducated ones too...trans ones too...all the voices


>So I'd classify myself as someone who is falling far short,
>and needs to do much better.

Yes, please study and read more. I recommend the 1619 Project, How to Be an Antiracist, The New Jim Crow or Hood Feminism

d

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Jun-22-20 06:52 PM

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16. "there's another one. Thank you."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

Capital B is so obvious, come to think of it, or it should be.

Thank you for your graciousness.

>>As an "ally", I don't know. I'm ingrained, and not just with
>>my wife and kids. I suppose, one aspect of being supportive
>>means I don't pepper the black friends I have with
>>conversation about every black issue that arises, because to
>>me that "otherizes" them, for lack of a better term.
>
>This is next level awareness...YES! Not enough white people
>understand this part..good gracious

Yeah. That's definitely something I've learned, and I'm positive I've done that shit in the past. Between here and my family and friends, it's an issue that I had to witness to really understand.

>>I've had to reprogram the way I see a lot of shit over the
>>years, and the way I engage. I had to abandon things like
>the
>>"race card", once I realized the problems with it. I learned
>>that here, on OKP, and I don't let that go unchallenged if
>it
>>comes up. As time goes on, I allow less and less to go
>>unchallenged.
>
>
>>Me and Deadzombie had a horrible relationship, and I
>couldn't
>>stand him, because he would not leave me the fuck alone. So
>I
>>once told him to go find a cop and reach for his waistband.
>>I'm ashamed of that, and regretted it at the time. I
>>weaponized- and this trivialized- a real issue that he,
>people
>>here, and people I know and love in my day to day life,
>faces
>>every day.
>>
>>An ally doesn't do shit like that.
>>I learned from it, but that doesn't change the fact that it
>>happened.
>
>Its powerful that you owned this out loud.

If nothing else, it's a sobering reminder to myself.

>>All in all, I'm not sure there's a whole lot I do that can't
>>be chalked up to "cute, he's trying". I don't do enough
>>studying, reading and listening to academic black voices.
>Yes,
>>i listen to my favorite rappers and producers and other pop
>>culture voices on these issues, but I haven't yet gone all
>in.

>not just academic Black voices though...revolutionary ones
>too...radical ones too..uneducated ones too...trans ones
>too...all the voices

Agreed. To interject a bit, it was intended as a simple illustration to show the sort of gap between what I do and don't do, in terms of seeking information, not singling out academics as any more important or valid.

>>So I'd classify myself as someone who is falling far short,
>>and needs to do much better.
>
>Yes, please study and read more. I recommend the 1619
>Project, How to Be an Antiracist, The New Jim Crow or Hood
>Feminism

The second and third are on my list already. I'll add the others, and I do intend to get to it in the near future.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20498 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 07:29 PM

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18. "See ? Always learning. Capital B it is."
In response to Reply # 13


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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seemenomore
Member since Jan 01st 2008
217 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 08:29 PM

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22. "wouldn't it be more powerful if he never typed it in the first place?"
In response to Reply # 13


          

>Its powerful that you owned this out loud.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 09:39 PM

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25. "of course but we can't fix the past"
In response to Reply # 22


          

we can own our shitty behavior (which he did) and work to be better

cuz i can tell you for a fact ive hurt people and done shitty things..so i allow space for folks to be flawed as long as i see them working to improve, sincerely

d

  

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atruhead
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40. "you cant be a sensitive bully"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

you dont get to be a shitty troll and control the response you get

if your goal was to get under Cold Truth's skin, you succeeded and he fired back with what he felt was necessary at the time

either you take that as a lesson to leave people alone (you havent learned yet) or you accept that the kid gloves can come off and dont create lines that people cant cross

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue Jun-23-20 04:24 PM

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46. "Yes. Absolutely. "
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

First: I wasn't going to respond, because I don't want to derail this post. But you do deserve a response from me.

I'd like to note that I apologized at the time. I sent you an inbox. You never replied, and that's your prerogative.

So this isn't a fresh regret. In fact, it still bothers me to this day, and that's why I brought it up.

Because this post is about what it means to be an ally.

In order to do that, I had to really evaluate myself. The point of me bringing this up was to point out my own failure in that department.

That's the only way to address this subject sincerely.

And my apology stands, without caveat, without excuse.

I'm not sorry for your reaction or any feelings it may have stirred within you.

I'm sorry that I said what I said, precisely because of the weight that comes with what I said. Because you don't even have to reach.

to answer your question, I'd love to be able to say that I never crossed that line, because that would be a greater testimony, and I'd likely make for a more reliable ally.

But I did. It's not my only misstep, though certainly the most egregious that I can recall.

You were on the receiving end of that, and it's not up to me to decide how you received it, how you feel about it today, or how you feel about my apology.

What I can do is be honest with myself about how well I support Black causes, evaluate and take responsibility for my mistakes, pivot, and do the work required to do better and be of greater help going forward.

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5807 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 04:30 PM

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9. "Not white but just wanted to say props for posting this, Damali. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Hella important in my eyes that folks, if they are going to be part of an online community that is primarily Black and not be Black, do the work to be good allies and be held accountable for it in a positive way.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Mon Jun-22-20 06:35 PM

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15. "you're welcome and agreed. its hella important."
In response to Reply # 9


          

  

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KiloMcG
Member since Jan 01st 2008
27434 posts
Tue Jun-23-20 09:51 AM

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32. "I'm white and I'm here, though not very active much lately "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Due to my current work situation.

This has always been a great place for learning and enlightenment for me. It has made me a better person and a more understanding and empathetic individual to the plight of the oppressed. I can't think of many/any times that I've interjected into the Black issue topics here, other than to agree or support, but I can't say that has been the case in every post, but I don't know. I wish I had time to write more right now, I have to get back to work. I'm raising two Black (mixed, obviously) boys in this crazy world, so the issues plaguing the community hit very close to home for me. I make it a point for them to see me stand on the side of what is right, I don't want there to ever be be any confusion about how I feel. I will continue to learn and educate myself on how to be the best person I can be for the cause and movement, as well as educate my white friends the best I can, while pointing them in the direction of those more qualified to speak on specifics than I could ever be.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Tue Jun-23-20 10:16 AM

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34. "thanks for your response"
In response to Reply # 32


          

I will continue to learn and educate myself on how
>to be the best person I can be for the cause and movement, as
>well as educate my white friends the best I can, while
>pointing them in the direction of those more qualified to
>speak on specifics than I could ever be

Glad to hear. Educating yourself on what actions to take are most important...A lot of white people stop at "I understand your plight" and don't continue to "this is what i'm doing about it"

just don't get stuck there...being white and actively antiracist will cost you..trust me.. its a sacrifice that must be made.

d.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
14285 posts
Tue Jun-23-20 10:07 AM

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33. "31 years old, Midwestern, classic failing upward type."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jun-23-20 10:25 AM by Nodima

  

          

For growing up in Omaha in a mostly suburban school district, my friend group wound up weirdly diverse. My first big crushes were a Latina and a pair of Korean women. My best friends were one Black kid and off/on his older brother, one Afghan refugee, one mixed-Black kid, a South Vietnamese girl and a third Korean girl. My favorite athlete was Ken Griffey, Jr.

I list the Black kid first, Andre, because we got to a point where we did literally everything together. Madden all afternoon long, coaching each other through long phone calls with cute girls. He arranged the one weird under-the-bleachers meet up I had in my life, where he got a brief handjob and I just wasted the other girl's time talking about the girl down the street I actually wished was there instead.

When he briefly dated that girl down the street, I still to this day don't know WHERE it came from, how I learned it. Maybe it was the porn he was introducing me to, usually black men like Shane Diesel blatantly reinforcing the Mandingo stereotype down to what the white women he worked with screamed at him during their scenes. My dad was a union construction worker, voted Democrat down the line...but he still worked construction, drank like hell and ran in a crew of Harley-revving big white dudes with beards to their navels.

Andre and I were standing in my driveway playing 21 with his basketball on my hoop and I called him a Nigger for going on a date with this girl. Again, this was the 6th or 7th grade, maybe the summer between specifically, so we were full of hormones and weird emotions. He choke-slammed me onto the trunk of my mother's white Saturn SL2, began crying as he continued to choke me for several seconds, let go only to place the ball on my stomach and punch it as hard as he could. He picked up his ball, I lay on the ground gasping for air, and he told me he'd see me tomorrow at school.

I wish we'd been able to grow up and process that together. We remained good friends, though I started going through a Chevelle/Breaking Benjamin sort of phase and dealing with a lot of un-addressed anxiety that had me retreating from social situations, plus I couldn't go to parties without parents attending so I became less and less entrenched in what was "cool" while Andre, in an era of Dave Chappelle and Martin Lawrence and Will Smith, was the epitome of cool. I began resenting him a bit, thinking he was supposed to be bringing me along for the ride, like he owed me something.

Andre collapsed from a brain aneurysm while taking a drink of water from the fountain outside of the music room before 6th period in 8th grade right in the middle of football season. We used to play the "knockout game" in my basement, and he played running back for the Varsity team with an unbelievably violent, Fred Taylor kind of style (though Warrick Dunn was his favorite). I started blaming myself for what happened, his mother wouldn't allow myself or any other non-people of color to visit him in the hospital (I was also never allowed in his home, pre- or especially post-driveway incident, and only recall even seeing his mother a handful of times) and yet when he came out of his coma after 2 months, he asked his brother to push his wheelchair down the street to my house, and then my father lifted him out of his chair, carried him up the stairs from my basement to the entertainment room, and we tried to play SSX Tricky.

Andre couldn't remember my name, fluctuated in and out of remembering why he was even there, but we sat there for hours. It was the last time we spent any significant time together, and most of that time was spent crying, holding hands, hugging and being silent.

I met up with him for a cocktail several years ago with the girl we'd fought over all those years ago, who I had continued on-and-off (mostly off) dating for most of my 20s.

He still didn't remember most of our childhood together, but he immediately brought up the basketball and the car.

-------------

As I've grown up, I'm still a pretty hermetic kind of guy. I hate making plans with people, am not much of a traveller, have spent a not-insignificant amount of time marinating on big ideas only to hand them off to more motivated or ambitious people. Like a lot of guys with my diverse-by-chance upbringing, my friend group has looked more and more like me as I've gotten older, and like a lot of super-anxious individuals that friend group is actually mostly just co-workers and the people I've stumbled into getting along with for several years at the same bars. It was the same circumstantial form of friendship as I'd had as a child, only I was increasingly becoming surrounded by white people the older I got. I sold weed for a black man for a while, and eventually he was about the only black guy I interacted with anymore. I didn't consciously make that change and as I began listening to more canonized hip-hop, particularly KRS-One and LL Cool J and The Roots, it bothered me.

I especially became aware of that in college, where I very accidentally became an African-American studies major by way of a chance meeting with the Dean of the school, Dr. Omowale Akintunde, when he substitute taught a lecture during an Antebellum South course I was taking at random for a mandatory cultural credit. He happened to have been given a paper of mine and immediately attached to my writing - it had something to do with De la Soul and the rebellious act of having fun in a music industry that encouraged self-violence and -hatred in both white and black popular music, or something college-y like that - so he fast tracked me into a 400 level hip-hop course he taught when I was just a sophomore. I essentially wound up being his TA for that class, helping translate his big ideas about Snoop Dogg's self-mythology in the "Murder Was tha Case" video and things like that to an audience that, even with all its exclusionary pre-requisites to taking the class, seemed full of people who thought they were just going to get an easy Senior year A while talking about how much they unironically liked Akon.

Over the two years I was closely associated with him, he became my surrogate for Andre, allowing me to process and hear the hurt that kind of action from a friend can cause in a young Black man, and I became his eyes into a generation of white kids raised on hip-hop and R&B, who recognized the power of racism but were unsure exactly how or why we were weaponizing it or fetishizing African-American culture. He walked me through his days in Georgia, his awakening through Public Enemy and Big Daddy Kane in the 80s, his choice to attend the University of Missouri while changing his birth name (which he made a point to rarely remind me of, so I don't remember it) to OMOWALE AKINTUNDE and to walk tall in daishikis and other traditional dress on the campus of the University of Fucking Missouri in the late '80s. We talked for hours in his office, and later late nights on the weekends at his apartment, about all manner of race, religion, music. We definitely had the incredibly annoying, 21-year old white kid and 50+ year old black man pontificate on the academic veracity of Gucci Mane's Wilt Chamberlain series over a blunt and some cognac more than once.

When he told me point blank that I could be a powerful speaker for change, a professor of African-American studies myself, a traveling salesman for white people to see the unintended evil they'd inherited and let fester in themselves unknowingly, that I could be an "ally" - I balked, dropped out, and got a job delivering sandwiches for Jimmy John's.

---------------

Both of those stories are to say that I am very, very aware of what my place in society is, but I just don't feel like the person to make much loud, material change. I have been very vocal about the killing of a local man, James Scurlock (here is a powerful summary if you're so inclined, not by myself: https://medium.com/@ryandwilkins/if-you-die-no-one-would-blink-an-eye-7664c5d63f51), in my community during the first days of protesting because it involved my industry. I've actively pursued people of color to work on my restaurant's new staff, though it is of course really hard to find such people with the right amount of training and experience (or, frankly, confidence to learn quickly) in this kind of city where the smartest thing to do as an ambitious young Black man is leave as soon as you can.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've done bizarrely well for myself during this pandemic, and I've tried to recognize that by donating a lot of $24 and $34 increments to bail relief and urban children relief groups where I can. I try to amplify the local black voices I think are doing the big, important work right now via Instagram Stories and my Facebook timeline, while I mostly just Like, listen and share occasional protest music. I tried to correct my step-mother on her All Lives Matter / I'll take my flag down when you pull your pants up / I Don't See Color rhetoric early on, but when she called ME ignorant for suggesting her own hardships in life should illustrate to her how much she's still benefitted for passing as white (she claims Mexican heritage), I just gave up.

Anyway, you asked me to share. Now I'll go back to mostly listening.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Tue Jun-23-20 10:28 AM

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36. "thanks for your honesty and openness. 2 things tho:"
In response to Reply # 33
Tue Jun-23-20 10:31 AM by Damali

          

1. Capitalize the B in Black when referring to Black people


>Andre and I were standing in my driveway playing 21 with his
>basketball on my hoop and I called him a Nigger for going on a
>date with this girl.

2. Never type out the n-word again. Just write 'n-word' and we will all know what you mean. You should never be saying or typing this at all. like ever.


>Both of those stories are to say that I am very, very aware of
>what my place in society is, but I just don't feel like the
>person to make much loud, material change.

You are ABSOLUTELY the person to do that...you must. it doesn't have to be "loud" per se, but any and all actions you take toward antiracism are "material".

You benefit from white supremacist patriarchy every day you breathe and its your moral obligation to take the annoying, needed, difficult, and uncomfortable actions to upend it...which i see you are doing, which is good.

Read more, learn more and have to courage to keep doing the hard shit.

and so sorry about your friend Andre..he sounded like an amazing dude.

d

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
14285 posts
Fri Jul-03-20 02:46 AM

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71. "RE: thanks for your honesty and openness. 2 things tho:"
In response to Reply # 36
Fri Jul-03-20 02:52 AM by Nodima

  

          

Andre was, scratch, is, an awesome dude. I draw so much strength from his strength, even today.

Later in life, it's been one of my greater regrets that I didn't accept what was being offered to me in those many late night conversations. I was afraid of flipping the table.

On all other points, heard. It's why it took me a while to come back to this post, I was worried I sabotaged myself. Because there's a whole other conversation(s) with Dr. Akintunde that led to this idea that implied censorship is offering power to a word that deserves none of it while also knowing fell well the power of the word.

But it is not mine to use, and yet I used it here. I apologize.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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Hitokiri
Charter member
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Tue Jun-23-20 11:36 AM

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38. "Need more names."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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eclipsedInI
Member since Jul 29th 2002
92811 posts
Tue Jun-23-20 02:37 PM

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43. "I just came in here to scroll and see if Shaun King replied yet"
In response to Reply # 0


          

_____________________
puttin' the roota in the toota since 98'

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Tue Jun-23-20 03:03 PM

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44. "LOL was he really an okp once? I've heard that somewhere..."
In response to Reply # 43


          

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
2654 posts
Tue Jun-23-20 05:01 PM

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47. "hwhite guy checking in"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Like others, as a white kid I was introduced to Black culture and issues through hip hop. I started getting into it when I was 13 or 14. At first I just liked the music, and then the more I listened the more I would research what was being talked about in the songs. It's exposed me to history, culture, and points of view I would otherwise be completely oblivious to.

In general I come to this message board for the discussions about music, news, and BSing. But part of it is also to hear and learn from the Black perspective on those things. Honestly its also just refreshing to know I wont have to read any tone deaf, ignorant (on race anyway...), or cringey all lives mattery comments that I see everywhere else on the internet and in real life. I know my place as a white dude on here though.

I'm trying to figure out what the best ways for me personally are to help. As of now, I've donated to various organizations that fight specifically against issues against Black people. I donate to an organization that uses hockey to help empower under resourced kids in Philly - I love seeing Black and brown kids get involved in a sport I love but has traditionally been white AF. I've educated friends and family about things they weren't aware of and called out instances of racism that are less obvious. Ive continued to read and educate myself. Of course I could do better though and I think am more aware of actively looking for opportunities to support now.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 11:42 AM

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55. "Thanks for responding "
In response to Reply # 47


          


>I'm trying to figure out what the best ways for me personally
>are to help. As of now, I've donated to various organizations
>that fight specifically against issues against Black people. I
>donate to an organization that uses hockey to help empower
>under resourced kids in Philly - I love seeing Black and brown
>kids get involved in a sport I love but has traditionally been
>white AF. I've educated friends and family about things they
>weren't aware of and called out instances of racism that are
>less obvious. Ive continued to read and educate myself. Of
>course I could do better though and I think am more aware of
>actively looking for opportunities to support now.

You're on the right track...dig deeper, though. continuing to read and educate yourself is excellent..there are so many folks putting content out there specifically around what more you can do

What "deeper" might look like for you:
-holding your workplace accountable for their hiring/promotion practices and internal work culture with respect to how Black people are treated
-attending your local city council meetings or school board meetings and seeing what kind of policies exist or are being worked on, and help hold them accountable for making sure their policies are antiracist

those are just two things, but as you can see, they involve action and focus on being a voice for change when it may be uncomfortable.

d

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12537 posts
Tue Jun-23-20 05:15 PM

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48. "*raises hand*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm hardly an impact player on this board, even if you recognize my username you prob know nothing about me/remember anything I've posted. I've never outwardly made it a point to identify myself as white, but I most certainly have never hid it and it's likely obvious at times. was primarily a Lessonhead from 2005-2010, though I've chimed in somewhat off and on in various posts in GD since then.

I remember there was a poll on here years back and about Black foods and one of the options was (I believe) clam chowder and I responded "I had no idea clam chowder was a Black food" and immediately got clowned with "found the white guy". I wasn't up on the fact that you guys always include a "white person" answer in polls as a joke. More recently I responded in a thread about spades that I had no idea it was a Black game since I learned it in HS (with all white friends).

My name is Ryan. I'm 32 from the suburbs in Mass. Lived in and around the Boston area my entire life, though in a few months I'm actually joining my girlfriend who is a travel nurse and will be living wherever we decided to go for 3-month periods all around the US.

I've wanted to reply to this thread since I first opened it, before it had any responses, just to make it known that I'm white, that I recognize I'm a guest here and in the hip hop culture in general that I actively engage in discussion on, and that I see and am appalled at all of the awful things that are unbelievably still going on in this country. Though, admittedly, I am removed from seeing this stuff first hand since I grew up in a predominantly white community, went to a university with not many Black people, work in an industry that is predominantly white and Asian, and have only one friend that is Black. That friend, however, is my best friend, I was the best man at his wedding and I am the godfather to his son. But I fear sounding corny just saying that and coming off in a "I'm not racist I have black
friends!" sort of way.

The reason I was hesitant to reply was because I honestly didn't have answers to your questions, or at least answers that I would be proud to announce and that you'd be happy to read. Yes, I consider myself an ally, and yes I most certainly acknowledge my privilege, but I don't doubt that there have been countless times, some even recent, that I was unable to recognize that my privilege was in play. It's one thing to admit there is such a thing as white privilege, but it's a whole nother thing to be able to identify every time I've been able to take advantage of it.

Right now all I'm doing is listening and continuing to learn. And as I've done for years, reading here. I've been surrounded by whiteness for my entire life, though the majority of the art I've consumed is Black. When I started coming to OKP in HS I recognized early on that for once I was (and continue to be) the minority, and I have been able to shape my understanding of Black culture, struggle, life, etc just by visiting this forum. It's part of the reason why I was always timid when it came to engaging in conversation in GD, I was never really sure I belonged or that my voice was anything more than meaningless.

I've been coming to this board for half my life at this point. It's easily my most visited website and I love being a part of this community, even if part of me is still always unsure if I actually am.

So like I said. I'm listening and always learning.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 11:46 AM

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56. "thanks for writing."
In response to Reply # 48


          

But I fear sounding corny just saying that and coming
>off in a "I'm not racist I have black
>friends!" sort of way.

no need to be afraid...you're obviously self-aware so that breeds sincerity


>The reason I was hesitant to reply was because I honestly
>didn't have answers to your questions, or at least answers
>that I would be proud to announce and that you'd be happy to
>read. Yes, I consider myself an ally, and yes I most certainly
>acknowledge my privilege, but I don't doubt that there have
>been countless times, some even recent, that I was unable to
>recognize that my privilege was in play. It's one thing to
>admit there is such a thing as white privilege, but it's a
>whole nother thing to be able to identify every time I've been
>able to take advantage of it.

Exactly..i'm glad you see that there is more room for you to do deeper work on this issue, and become much more aware and proactive about it

>Right now all I'm doing is listening and continuing to learn.

That's good, but don't get stuck there. Right now, its time for you to take action.

The first act, is to find out what you should be doing..i've written alot to other folks above so i won't keep repeating it.

>
>So like I said. I'm listening and always learning.

Time to act. Dismantle white supremacist patriarchy.

d

  

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MIAthinker
Member since Jul 11th 2002
4654 posts
Wed Jun-24-20 05:36 PM

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51. " Very white here"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My AncestryDNA is Irish, English, a little Norway, and a sliver of German.

I’ve lived in Miami my whole life so my experience is kinda unique. I’m the minority here and always was in school growing up. I absolutely know that I’m part of the larger majority and have all of those advantages. But growing up here gave me perspective and context that my family in the Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama, and Ohio just don’t have.

So I’m married to a Honduran woman from New York and I went to college for Sociology. I consider myself an ally for POC, women, and everyone else who is hurt by the society that gives me privileges. We go to the marches, we advocate, we call out friends and family who express ignorance.

I’ve been here since the beginning and have learned a bunch. I’ll keep learning.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 11:48 AM

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57. "Excellent..thanks for responding"
In response to Reply # 51


          


>I’ve been here since the beginning and have learned a bunch.
>I’ll keep learning.

This is great..and as I've said above, listening and learning is no longer enough..its time for you to take action and work to end white supremacist patriarchy

reference replies I've made to other folks above.

d

  

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Hitokiri
Charter member
20919 posts
Tue Jun-30-20 07:13 PM

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54. "Need more names"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

ya'll tryna act like you don't see this post

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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hardware
Member since May 22nd 2007
42253 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 11:49 AM

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58. "lol"
In response to Reply # 54


          

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
80522 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 02:00 PM

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63. "this forum is not as black as i assumed..."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
20488 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 07:20 PM

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69. "I’ve been saying that for years. "
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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hardware
Member since May 22nd 2007
42253 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 08:30 PM

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70. "i assumed it was majority white on principle"
In response to Reply # 63


          

but most interactions felt black i guess

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32510 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 12:01 PM

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59. "mom's side white, dad's side Mexican"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i dont self-identify as white for whatever thats worth, even tho extended lack of sun exposure leaves me looking that way. comments about my Mexican name among white people growing up let me know they didnt see me that way either.

im not sure how common the way i was raised is among people...lets say..."with my skin tone", but i grew up in Detroit (Brightmoor for folks who are familiar with that sort of thing), and went to the neighborhood Catholic school. living among Black folks was all i knew growing up, and in some ways i didnt even know racism was a "thing" in the world, until something happened that forced my parents to talk to me about it.

i was 9 when Malice Green was murdered by DPD officers, and both my parents told me in no uncertain terms that it was because he was Black. in that same ongoing conversation, i wasnt much older than that when my dad told me, and this is a direct quote, "Black people in America have been shit on since the very beginning", and ive never forgotten that moment. aside from being a wake-up call to the realities of society, it gave me an absolutely necessary tool that i wouldnt use until later on, when i would be the only non-Black kid in a social gathering: Black folks wariness of white folks is NOT personal to who i am, and when Black folks would talk about racism i never felt any particular need to put myself outside of the conversation. we lived in that neighborhood until i left for college, and over that time i shared meals, sleepovers, rides, fears, laughter, tears, and every other HUGELY IMPORTANT THING that teenagers experience, with Black people.

at my high school tho, it was a complete inversion from my home life. i got an academic scholarship to the all boys Catholic prep school near me, and there were maybe 6-7 Black kids and only 2-3 Mexican kids in my class of 220. that being said we were taught a very liberal interpretation of Catholicism that incorporated "liberation theology", the idea that liberating oppressed people from their injustices is central to the overall message of the Gospel. as it happened, about half of the Black kids in my class were in my homeroom, and since id met them at football practice before school started i was most comfortable starting there for making new friends. that context introduced me to something that i wouldnt have a name for until later. a white classmate observed to me that i didnt talk to my new homeroom friends the way i spoke to everyone else at school. he was a nice kid, and wasnt being mocking or anything, but he was right. i was code-switching to fit in before i even knew that was a thing. i was a rather precocious and insightful kid, so it wasnt much of a stretch to imagine that if im doing it to fit in around people who mostly look like me, the pressure for Black kids to "conform" was motivated by MUCH higher stakes.

we took 1 theology course every semester, and as a sophomore we all had to take a class called "Social Justice". this was in 1997, and basically put formal language around the ideas that id been growing up with. ironically, but not surprisingly, the very same classmates who were learning these things withe had no problem making Elian Gonzalez (c*GONZ*00cc) jokes and deportation jokes, thinking it was harmless fun. i wasnt terrorized or anything (far from it in fact, i treasure my h.s. experience for many reasons), but through that i learned that racism isnt always slurs and violence.

idk where im going with this, and i didnt set out to write an autobiography. but i have never had to come to an awakening to institutional and systemic racism, because i "saw" (not literally obviously) it kill someone at 9 years old, and my parents made sure i knew that. i had a vague idea that white privilege was a "thing" but i really learned what it was at 16 when i inadvertently traumatized a Black friend by speeding through a suburb with him in my car. never made that mistake again :/

before professional life happened, with all of the adulting that comes with it, my anti-racism efforts were mostly via volunteer ing/community service at Focus: Hope in Detroit. it got hard to do that over time, and now my efforts are mostly conversational. i can be a little bit of a cocky asshole, and i know that isnt helpful when it comes to trying to help someone untangle their shit, so it takes effort not to be immediately derisive towards white people who are resistant towards accepting reality.

i hope this doesnt sound self-congratulatory (im sure it does tho), because its definitely not that. i was blessed to receive things that were completely out of my control: anti-racist parents, immersion in Black spaces before i got to the age where i would have been self-conscious about it, liberation theology in Catholic education, etc, and im just proud that i didnt waste those gifts.

i would say that my biggest struggle is remembering that if i just wait for the world to catch up to my own ideals, people will get hurt, and that i need to be better at identifying ways i can give it a lil push in the right direction. cocky assholes sometimes dont understand why people cant see how fucked up they are, or that no conversation is beneath them when people's lives are at stake.

so thats me i guess. for reference im 37, will be 38 in November.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Tue Sep-29-20 05:06 PM

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73. "this was dope"
In response to Reply # 59


          

loved the explanation of your screenname too

also, no white person needs to "identify" as white, per se. it doesn't have to be your identity...but depending on where you are in the world, it define/shapes your experience in that place. your 'white privilege' disappears in a homogenous environment

similarly, I'm Black in American, but in Nigeria, i'm American cuz everybody is Black

and no, you didn't not come off self-congratulatory; just self aware.

thanks for sharing.

d

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
92045 posts
Wed Sep-30-20 01:00 PM

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77. "u white bruh"
In response to Reply # 59


          

________________________________________
Watch For The Hook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9Fun9CuZ4

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
13538 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 01:26 PM

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61. "ive been conflicted about replying"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

im mexican, from both parents. i know race does not equal ethnicity and vice versa but i dont identify at all as white.

that said, i think i would very much be more likely to be mistaken for white than Black. i would think most people would assume im mexican (or possibly asian) but if the choice is white or Black then yeah they would probably think im white.

so based on that i feel like i should reply.

i live in and grew up in a city that is around 80% latinx, like 10% non-latinx white, 5% Black. most people that are not latinx live on the military base. so in school it was rare to see someone that was not latinx.

i did go to college in detroit.

ive always identified as a minority and have been empathetic to all struggles. i dont pretend that they are one in the same but i do believe we all need to support people that are being discriminated against.

im bothered by how much racism is prevalent in mexican communities. i have been in denial about it before, "how could it be possible that a minority would be racist??" but obviously it is there. i do try to show my disapproval whenever i see someone making racist jokes or saying racist things, no matter how innocent they think they might be.

in my family there have been a fair amount of inter-racial relationships.

i mostly try to read and learn from posts regarding Black issues. im not sure how much value i can add by replying most of the time but i dont want my absence to be interpreted as a lack of support.

during the past few weeks i have donated to causes and tried to educate people on why people are protesting to the best of my ability. i feel like if the focus right now is on Black Lives Matter then we should all put our support behind that movement.

i am curious on if this post was meant for only white people, caucasian..european descent etc or if you were looking for "white" people that are of any ethnicity to reply as well.

hopefully i havent made a fool of myself but if i have do let me know how.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32510 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 02:09 PM

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64. "are you from detroit/MI?"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

i keep track of those things and i didnt realize you had a connection

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
13538 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 02:53 PM

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65. "nah i just went to college there"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

i definitely miss it

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32510 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 04:11 PM

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66. "it counts *dap*"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Wed Jul-01-20 04:42 PM

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68. "haha"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

gotta say all detroit okp i met were super nice in person. even rjcc.

good people. i was there from 04-08.

  

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Rjcc
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Mon Jul-06-20 06:00 AM

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72. "don't tell anybody"
In response to Reply # 68


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Tue Sep-29-20 05:13 PM

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74. "nah you good."
In response to Reply # 61


          

>im mexican, from both parents. i know race does not equal
>ethnicity and vice versa but i dont identify at all as white.
>
>that said, i think i would very much be more likely to be
>mistaken for white than Black. i would think most people would
>assume im mexican (or possibly asian) but if the choice is
>white or Black then yeah they would probably think im white.
>
>so based on that i feel like i should reply.


and that makes sense. while you may not consider yourself to be white (which is good), it seems you are aware that you benefit from the proximity to whiteness and have the ability to access it, if you really wanted to.

>
>im bothered by how much racism is prevalent in mexican
>communities. i have been in denial about it before, "how could
>it be possible that a minority would be racist??" but
>obviously it is there.

yup and its usually rooted in anti-blackness.

>i am curious on if this post was meant for only white people,
>caucasian..european descent etc or if you were looking for
>"white" people that are of any ethnicity to reply as well.

yup, you nailed it.

>hopefully i havent made a fool of myself but if i have do let
>me know how.

you haven't..i appreciate the nuance of your reply and your understanding of how we don't get to choose how the rest of the world sees us.

d

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
40837 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 01:53 PM

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62. "Hi."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I've been on this board essentially most of my adult life, so it's no secret I'm white.

I grew up in a very suburban, very white, very racist area outside of Los Angeles. Despite progressive leanings as far back as I can remember, I don't think I realized just how deep that racism ran. And honestly, one of my biggest takeaways during this whole time is just how shut off and ignorant most of us are when it comes to social issues. I think it's one thing to be aware of the problems - growing up on hip hop kinda meant it was staring me in the face the entire time - but it's an entirely other thing to do something about it.

Peeling back the onion of all the systemic racism in this country is terrifying in a lot of ways - because it essentially turns what your image of what your city, state, country, etc is on it's head. And, I assume, similar to finding out a loved one is actually a monster behind closed doors - that's not something people generally WANT to face. You then question so many things - including the validity that you've earned everything you have in life. Taking the issues of white privilege and systemic racism on means admitting that you drew lucky cards in life rather than earning it all. That's not something most people want to admit, or to even think about.

So, to answer your question - I think of myself as an ally, but I can always do more. I'm in an incredibly privileged position in life. I have no student debt (I went to a state school, but still had family help), I have a coveted job - one that in part I was able to get because I had the support system in my early career to earn next to nothing to "pay my dues". I learned way later that the entertainment industry is this system that is essentially set up for people with more privileged backgrounds to succeed. Even learning that an an embarrassingly old age was enough to make me think there's way more to systemic racism than I know...so perhaps just sit back and learn something rather than shutting off.

So...what am I doing? I'm now no longer allowing tolerance of racism. I'd often chalked up family members as being "old and dumb" and just let things slide because it was more comfortable for me. That's not a thing anymore. And it's less to change their mind - that's too far gone. It's more to say, "Just know I know you're racist. Don't bring it around me anymore."

I use my professional position to amplify Black voices. I'm lucky to have colleagues who do the same.

And sure, I donate and all that...but I'm also trying to better the community I was raised in by getting involved in local politics. This is a long post so I won't get into the minutiae, but the town I grew up in caught a lot of flack recently because a city councilman tried to shut down a BLM march and I saw how people mobilized against him. It was a lesson that local government is a starting point. It is something that you can actively participate in to better your community and to help push things forward. It's not the end all be all whatsoever, but it's a way to be part of the solution.

Anyway, I don't know if this all answers your questions, but these days I'm trying to listen more than I talk. While I'm exhausted by the last 3 months, I'm continually reading the sentiment, "Oh, you're tired now? Try doing this your whole life." which...yeah, can't argue.

------------------------------
'19-'20 Bubble Lakers

X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X

2020 NBA Champions

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Tue Sep-29-20 05:24 PM

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75. "word..thanks for replying..this part tho:"
In response to Reply # 62


          

"Peeling back the onion of all the systemic racism in this country is terrifying in a lot of ways - because it essentially turns what your image of what your city, state, country, etc is on it's head. And, I assume, similar to finding out a loved one is actually a monster behind closed doors - that's not something people generally WANT to face. You then question so many things - including the validity that you've earned everything you have in life. Taking the issues of white privilege and systemic racism on means admitting that you drew lucky cards in life rather than earning it all. That's not something most people want to admit, or to even think about."

if most white people could wrap there whole head around that like holy fuck...well done

i can tell you that as I'm thinking of travelling and living outside of the U.S., i'll also need to wrestle with the privilege I have of being an American...growing up in a place where i get to take alot of luxuries for granted that i never considered luxuries...

d

  

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lonesome_d
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30438 posts
Wed Jul-01-20 04:32 PM

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67. "I was always more of a Lesson guy"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and turned off by GD back 20 years ago, but as the Lesson quieted down and GD grew a bit, I started reading over here more, though I'm mostly quiet. Unless the subject is beer or gardening.

Demos: white, lifelong mid-Atlantic suburbanite, mostly white upper middle socioeconomic area and background, college, now running the family insurance agency. Not a lot of Black people in my day to day life; a few of my daughter's less-close friends, couple families I know from coaching Little League or running a Cub Scouts den. Not many Black clients, all of whom are members of or referred by a single mixed-race family. Caregivers for my dad, all of whom are immigrants.

My only experience as a minority was living in Japan, which (while my experience included a whole lot of getting stereotyped as well as rare negativity) is not the same thing as being a non-white here.

>Alot of white people post on this board (many under the cover
>of anonymity) and oftentimes have felt very comfy to offer
>critiques about issues that directly affect the lives and
>livelihood of Black people...

I don't generally *think* this applies to me.
I did occasionally get criticized in The Lesson due to my approach to older Black music - I'm especially interested in roots music, including Black old-time and blues, especially pre-war stuff, and occasionally ruffled some feathers with my writing about that.

>with that said, the world is now seemingly (read: seemingly)
>starting to reckon with how insidious systemic and widespread
>racism and anti-Blackness is...

I am both shocked that more people remained oblivious to it after the multiple high profile, videotaped police-custody killings of the past decade, and pleased that now even the less virulent racists can agree that the situation is appalling.

>For the white people that post here..who are you? are you
>allies to this struggle?

I am... sympathetic isn't quite strong enough, but I feel like 'ally' isn't the right word, like that would be assuming a role I haven't done anything to earn. I feel like 'ally' might imply a depth of understanding that I don't anticipate ever having, no matter how empathic I may feel.

>are you truly doing the work of
>wrestling with how you benefit from your privilege and taking
>actions to unlearn your internalized white supremacy and be
>more antiracist?

I try to be self-aware.
I try to make sure my older kids are self-aware. They're far more likely at their age to have friends from a diverse ethnic (and even gender identity) spectrum than I was, and that's a very positive development at a young age.

>If the answer is yes, and you have the courage, please reveal
>yourself and talk about it. How have you stepped up in this
>moment? What more would you like to be able to do? How are you
>educating yourself?

I am not an activist. I gather as much information from trusted sources as I can, I read, I listen, I think, I weigh, I talk to my kids about what is right and what is wrong and what goes on in the world and why things that happen happen and what they can do to make those things less likely to happen.


As for what more I'd like to be able to do, here's a sidebar that's kinds personal.

I wrestle with the Italian in-laws from S. Philly, who run the gamut from not-self-aware (the nephew who went out to 'defend' the Columbus statue) to negative stereotyping (one actually said 'but he was wearing a hoodie!' to me about the Trayvon Martin murder) to (less frequent) outright racism. It's difficult, because they're family, and I (mostly) love them, but when the awfulness comes out, it's jarring.

I try to be understated but clear whenever race relations come up (which is not infrequent) because tempers run high and opinions generally don't change, and because I'm an outsider there too, though there's been some softening. The argument that inevitably gets made can be pretty powerful: formative experiences across 50 years including rapes of friends, needless fights, chases, home invasions, Uncle Ernie getting bashed on the head with a bat just for riding his bike in the wrong neighborhood. I (the conversation goes) don't get it because I have never been down there, never dealt with it, have always lived in a cushy suburban setting. And that's hard to counter without getting all logic-y, which doesn't work when emotion dominates the other party's thought process.

So while they would mostly say "I'm not racist," while they all "have Black friends," and you know what, they may well have more Black friends than I do, it's hard for them to put that negative emotion from personal experience aside, to consider historical context and the role of their own community in those poor relations. It's also difficult to convince them that applying their negative experience to the Black community as a whole is illogical, since elements of their their own community regularly act in ways that are also objectively bad, but are normalized because they come from within.

So if there was something I could do, it would be to help these people see that anti-racism does NOT invalidate their negative experiences, but rather would help foster an atmosphere where such would be less common in the future for everyone. Or something like that. If you have pointers, thoughts, outrage, want to lay into me, etc., feel free to share.




-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Wed Sep-30-20 12:46 PM

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76. "Stringer Bell is white AND proudly racist, y'all."
In response to Reply # 0


          

just wanted to add that to this thread for posterity.

d

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
20488 posts
Wed Sep-30-20 01:47 PM

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78. "I've been screaming this for years. I'm glad folks are starting to catc..."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
34861 posts
Wed Sep-30-20 02:18 PM

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79. "so sorry, bruv. we here now LOL"
In response to Reply # 78


          

  

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PG
Charter member
42403 posts
Wed Sep-30-20 02:50 PM

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80. "RE: White OKP Roll Call"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Sep-30-20 02:54 PM by PG

  

          

I've made this place my online home and community and I've spent the last 20 years here learning pretty much non-stop. I've probably been mulling over my response to these questions and how to articulate it the whole time... learning more and more all the while, which makes this a fluid reality so to really try and pin it down on these terms is a challenge.. I'll take a stab at it...

In life my default stance has always been empathy. life has been a beautiful and painful continuous journey of discovering and dispelling my naivety and ignorance. for example I used to think everybody started from this stance imagine my surprise growing up to realize real assholes, idiots even monsters exist.

The flip-side of that is a lot of frustration and anger... I've been mad about the environment, race, war and society my entire life.. All the while I've had all the breaks afforded to take advantage of my position and live an otherwise comfortable life i.e. white privilege. If I didn't have those opportunities my anger would be a juggernaut on a collision course. My anger is a white privilege in and of itself in that I have not had to really suppress it to survive and navigate my way and I have not found myself in a direct situation that rankled it to the point of disaster.

I fucked around as a youth and for far too long into adulthood I caught breaks I wouldn't have if I wasn't white. From mere warnings at school for selling drugs, cops stopping me and turning me loose for things that I in no way believe a Native or Black person would be given the same pass for, to being arrested and given the least of wrist slaps and even the luxury of no permanent record. I wouldn't have a halfway decent job let alone a good one. I'd be in jail. I've also no doubt I'd have been in so many more fights than I have just out of anger and frustration for the obstacles I would have faced.

As for OKP I think I used to be louder about my opinions but you know I learned, got older and I prefer to listen... I stepped in shit more times here than I likely know and honestly wish I had been called out directly on more of it than I have been because when I have been they're valuable lessons.

As for the ongoing work and stepping it up in these times... I am still discovering aspects of my perception and attitude that are complicit if subconscious.. for example when I read Malcolm X's autobiography there was a section where he described the different types of white folks and their attitudes toward the Black culture and I realized that I fell far too much into a category of folks who's admiration of the culture is not rooted appropriately, you know the romanticizing a curiosity that doesn't really acknowledge and respect the harm and damage of encouraging and perpetuating problems... growing up on Tom and Jerry thinking the Mammy was cool just a Black woman you know thick Black gams willing to swing a broom instead of skinny white ones posted up on a chair, my favorite loony tunes was Inky and the Minah bird.. i also loved the crows in Dumbo... my favorite scene in Fritz the cat was when he had sex with the female crow.. it's a fetishism.. I recognized that stuff earlier on in my OKP life, but the autobiography made me look even deeper to my relationship with hip-hop and other aspects of society. I'm not proud of it but this stuff is insidious and it dies hard. I thought I was further down the path of understanding and enlightenment than I am but that's the thing about learning it's cumulative and continues to break through barriers to show one more.

I've spent 20+ years here trying to build relationships and represent myself honestly. I try to have a clue you know? I know for a fact it has given me a perspective and window on things that most of the people in my orbit outside of OKP do not have, but there are many levels I'm sure I still don't get. there are many folks here who I wish I had a better rapport with and I still am trying to build with. I've written off many people in my life for their ignorance and bigoted attitudes, I've argued and tried to persuade and sadly I've learned I am better at educating myself than I am at debate and educating others and that some folks have bricks for brains so there just is no talking to them. These days I default to self preservation and keeping my anger in check.. it's weak and I'm not proud but believe me when I tell you the anger I feel about these issues is just so huge I need to check myself. I'd be positively homicidal. I don't know how so many people more directly affected manage to be so level headed. I've also learned that it's not for me to make the call on these issues, fuck a white savior, I don't presume to know, instead I'm listening. Call me racist I'm not going to tell you I'm not I"m going to look at the reason I'm being called that, the thing at hand and consider it sincerely. One of the largest lessons about myself I've learned in life is my fallibility.

I don't know.. I have anecdotes, stories I'm not getting into... plenty of thoughts and observations I don't know how to properly articulate.. am I an ally? Well like Brew said it's not my place to make that call.. I know Black lives matter. I know and see systemic racism is pervasive in my country as well as yours (and plenty of others).. I can't stand it, I am against it and I do my damnedest to conduct myself accordingly.

edit: spell check didn't like perpetuating and had made it personalizing.. not the word I meant.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20498 posts
Wed Sep-30-20 03:29 PM

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81. "Damn if I could write another response this would be it lol."
In response to Reply # 80


          

Every single paragraph I was nodding going "yep, me too. Yep, me too. Yep, me too"


>I've made this place my online home and community and I've
>spent the last 20 years here learning pretty much non-stop.
>I've probably been mulling over my response to these questions
>and how to articulate it the whole time... learning more and
>more all the while, which makes this a fluid reality so to
>really try and pin it down on these terms is a challenge..
>I'll take a stab at it...
>
>In life my default stance has always been empathy. life has
>been a beautiful and painful continuous journey of discovering
>and dispelling my naivety and ignorance. for example I used to
>think everybody started from this stance imagine my surprise
>growing up to realize real assholes, idiots even monsters
>exist.
>
>The flip-side of that is a lot of frustration and anger...
>I've been mad about the environment, race, war and society my
>entire life.. All the while I've had all the breaks afforded
>to take advantage of my position and live an otherwise
>comfortable life i.e. white privilege. If I didn't have those
>opportunities my anger would be a juggernaut on a collision
>course. My anger is a white privilege in and of itself in that
>I have not had to really suppress it to survive and navigate
>my way and I have not found myself in a direct situation that
>rankled it to the point of disaster.
>
>I fucked around as a youth and for far too long into adulthood
>I caught breaks I wouldn't have if I wasn't white. From mere
>warnings at school for selling drugs, cops stopping me and
>turning me loose for things that I in no way believe a Native
>or Black person would be given the same pass for, to being
>arrested and given the least of wrist slaps and even the
>luxury of no permanent record. I wouldn't have a halfway
>decent job let alone a good one. I'd be in jail. I've also no
>doubt I'd have been in so many more fights than I have just
>out of anger and frustration for the obstacles I would have
>faced.
>
>As for OKP I think I used to be louder about my opinions but
>you know I learned, got older and I prefer to listen... I
>stepped in shit more times here than I likely know and
>honestly wish I had been called out directly on more of it
>than I have been because when I have been they're valuable
>lessons.
>
>As for the ongoing work and stepping it up in these times... I
>am still discovering aspects of my perception and attitude
>that are complicit if subconscious.. for example when I read
>Malcolm X's autobiography there was a section where he
>described the different types of white folks and their
>attitudes toward the Black culture and I realized that I fell
>far too much into a category of folks who's admiration of the
>culture is not rooted appropriately, you know the
>romanticizing a curiosity that doesn't really acknowledge and
>respect the harm and damage of encouraging and perpetuating
>problems... growing up on Tom and Jerry thinking the Mammy was
>cool just a Black woman you know thick Black gams willing to
>swing a broom instead of skinny white ones posted up on a
>chair, my favorite loony tunes was Inky and the Minah bird.. i
>also loved the crows in Dumbo... my favorite scene in Fritz
>the cat was when he had sex with the female crow.. it's a
>fetishism.. I recognized that stuff earlier on in my OKP life,
>but the autobiography made me look even deeper to my
>relationship with hip-hop and other aspects of society. I'm
>not proud of it but this stuff is insidious and it dies hard.
>I thought I was further down the path of understanding and
>enlightenment than I am but that's the thing about learning
>it's cumulative and continues to break through barriers to
>show one more.
>
>I've spent 20+ years here trying to build relationships and
>represent myself honestly. I try to have a clue you know? I
>know for a fact it has given me a perspective and window on
>things that most of the people in my orbit outside of OKP do
>not have, but there are many levels I'm sure I still don't
>get. there are many folks here who I wish I had a better
>rapport with and I still am trying to build with. I've written
>off many people in my life for their ignorance and bigoted
>attitudes, I've argued and tried to persuade and sadly I've
>learned I am better at educating myself than I am at debate
>and educating others and that some folks have bricks for
>brains so there just is no talking to them. These days I
>default to self preservation and keeping my anger in check..
>it's weak and I'm not proud but believe me when I tell you the
>anger I feel about these issues is just so huge I need to
>check myself. I'd be positively homicidal. I don't know how so
>many people more directly affected manage to be so level
>headed. I've also learned that it's not for me to make the
>call on these issues, fuck a white savior, I don't presume to
>know, instead I'm listening. Call me racist I'm not going to
>tell you I'm not I"m going to look at the reason I'm being
>called that, the thing at hand and consider it sincerely. One
>of the largest lessons about myself I've learned in life is my
>fallibility.
>
>I don't know.. I have anecdotes, stories I'm not getting
>into... plenty of thoughts and observations I don't know how
>to properly articulate.. am I an ally? Well like Brew said
>it's not my place to make that call.. I know Black lives
>matter. I know and see systemic racism is pervasive in my
>country as well as yours (and plenty of others).. I can't
>stand it, I am against it and I do my damnedest to conduct
>myself accordingly.
>
>edit: spell check didn't like perpetuating and had made it
>personalizing.. not the word I meant.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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