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Subject: "Is Trump A Worst President than George Washington?" Previous topic | Next topic
Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue May-19-20 12:34 PM

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"Poll question: Is Trump A Worst President than George Washington?"


  

          

When Trump is mentioned as the worst President in US History people are quick to mention that Trump can't be the worst president ever, we had some presidents that own slaves. Now I get the arguments how George W Bush, Richard Nixon, Andrew Jackson or James Buchanan are worst than Trump, but is Trump really better than George Washington, James Madison and other founders who owned slaves?

Hard to reconcile. What you think?

Poll result (30 votes)
Trump the Worst (24 votes)Vote
GW and the other slave owner Presidents are the worst (6 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Trying to imagine Trump as president in 1790
May 19th 2020
1
That Trump DEFINITELY would have own slaves is a good point.
May 19th 2020
5
There was a time when W was still the clear answer
May 19th 2020
2
W was never the clear answer
May 19th 2020
6
      Just because you said it doesn't make it correct
May 19th 2020
7
      Okay, explain why he is the absolute worst (or second)
May 19th 2020
8
           I'm just going to drop a link
May 19th 2020
9
                33rd of 45...um, that's pretty much what I said
May 19th 2020
10
                     He's not far from the bottom
May 19th 2020
14
      It’s hard to quantify because I wasn’t around for most Presidents
May 19th 2020
11
      My dude, W started an elective Never Ending War
May 19th 2020
17
      The largest economic drop since the great depression is average?
Jun 04th 2020
59
Trump is worse
May 19th 2020
3
No lies told. Seeing him fire IG after IG and all his people going
May 19th 2020
12
RE: Trump is worse
May 20th 2020
41
      This is dumb. I hope nobody replies with anything but derision
May 20th 2020
42
RE: Is Trump A Worst President than George Washington?
May 19th 2020
4
When he said he could shoot someone in broad daylight
May 19th 2020
13
i wasn't alive for $500, Alex
May 19th 2020
15
You weren’t alive for Stalin, Hitler, or Khan
May 19th 2020
16
      I agree it's a strange response.
May 19th 2020
20
Probably the most unqualified
May 19th 2020
18
Why does being alive to understand something historical matter
May 19th 2020
19
      If nothing else the fact it's 2020 and there's more avenues
May 19th 2020
27
           Personal capacity matters less than actions
May 19th 2020
28
                thats his point lol
May 20th 2020
33
                     No, his point is Polk didn't display his ignorance publically.
May 20th 2020
34
Bad people vs Bad presidents
May 19th 2020
21
Building a system on the back of enslaving and breeding people is bad
May 19th 2020
23
Healthiness is bad for a virus.
May 20th 2020
43
I'm not talking about subjectively bad, I'm talking about objectively ba...
May 20th 2020
44
      You're talking about all of humanity vs a racist republic.
May 20th 2020
45
           RE: You're talking about all of humanity vs a racist republic.
May 20th 2020
47
                RE: You're talking about all of humanity vs a racist republic.
May 20th 2020
48
I don't think that you're wrong...
May 20th 2020
46
I agree that it sounds like Bad people vs Bad presidents
May 20th 2020
40
I can't believe I'm going to type out this phrase
May 19th 2020
22
That's not from lack of trying. This year started with an assissination
May 19th 2020
25
      Yep and all of this is (or will be) worse long term, probably.
May 19th 2020
30
If Trump could have slaves he'd be bitching about how unfair
May 19th 2020
24
No he'd have some of them killed, then prop up a house one to show his
May 19th 2020
26
I'm kinda shocked Drumf hasn't re-instituted slavery...
May 19th 2020
29
Instead of using the defense protection act to compel production of ppe
May 19th 2020
31
In my lifetime, Nixon, Regan & Bush were even worse (so far)...
May 20th 2020
32
Johnson or Jackson?
May 20th 2020
35
Yes Jackson, my mistake..
May 20th 2020
38
I think you're thinking of Andrew Jackson.
May 20th 2020
36
Easily Trump and it isn't close
May 20th 2020
37
Reiterating this seems more of worse president vs worse person
May 20th 2020
39
With you, and everyone above who made similar points, 100%.
May 20th 2020
49
that's a tough argument
May 23rd 2020
50
Sooooooo
Jun 04th 2020
51
Trump is much worse and I would also mention
Jun 04th 2020
52
Bush destroyed 2 countries and let an entire city drown.
Jun 04th 2020
53
The bush bat signal flies and you just pop up huh.
Jun 04th 2020
54
      I just don't know if those Iraqi kids deserved to be exploded.
Jun 04th 2020
56
      The nigga legit stole an election.
Jun 04th 2020
57
BTW, to say GWB would've handled all of this so much better than Trump
Jun 04th 2020
55
I fear people dont understand the long term damage Trump has done
Jun 04th 2020
58
Bush also did everything you named.
Jun 05th 2020
60
Why do you think Washington was a bad president?
Jun 05th 2020
61
^^^White Twitter
Jan 11th 2021
73
Both were allegedly rapist/pedophiles BUT
Jun 05th 2020
62
Trumps says " George is looking down right now and saying, ‘This is a ...
Jun 05th 2020
63
At least Trump has a plan for addressing systemic racism
Jun 05th 2020
64
So now that he's getting his genocide on .... anyone want to change?
Jul 08th 2020
65
***raises hand***
Jul 08th 2020
66
Well ...
Jan 11th 2021
67
I have arrived at Trump is the Worst President and the Worst Person to h...
Jan 11th 2021
68
Didn't George *actually* fight an *actually* repressive regime?
Jan 11th 2021
69
Naw Geo Washington wanted to steal more land from the indigenous
Jan 11th 2021
70
      that's why I cited Trump having the benefit of hindsight
Jan 11th 2021
71
           Our democracy is a matter of perspective and historical anaylsis
Jan 11th 2021
72

Bambino Grande
Member since Mar 14th 2019
647 posts
Tue May-19-20 01:20 PM

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1. "Trying to imagine Trump as president in 1790"
In response to Reply # 0


          


  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue May-19-20 01:39 PM

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5. "That Trump DEFINITELY would have own slaves is a good point. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

It definitely not the case that dude finds slavery more morally objectionable than any of the slave-owning presidents.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
68444 posts
Tue May-19-20 01:29 PM

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2. "There was a time when W was still the clear answer"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I’m not so sure now.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Vertigo
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Tue May-19-20 01:44 PM

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6. "W was never the clear answer"
In response to Reply # 2


          

I sad it then and I say it now, he's a mid pack president (bottom mid), butt far from the bottom)... looking objectively at his second term it was very average. His first term was obviously worse, but when you look at it, he largely made some terrible decisions early on and had to live with them for the rest of the time.

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
20471 posts
Tue May-19-20 01:51 PM

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7. "Just because you said it doesn't make it correct"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Vertigo
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Tue May-19-20 02:43 PM

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8. "Okay, explain why he is the absolute worst (or second)"
In response to Reply # 7


          

compared to ALL the other presidents. Because there were some stinkers if you go back through history.

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Tue May-19-20 02:54 PM

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9. "I'm just going to drop a link"
In response to Reply # 8
Tue May-19-20 02:57 PM by MEAT

  

          

As measured by historians Bush was a bottom tier president
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?personid=3813

The things that buoy his dismal numbers in this poll are Public Persuasion (fox news/Karl Rove)
Crisis Leadership (um Katrina and all of the 2008 fiasco)
Relations with Congress (he only had 2 years with a Democratic majority party in either house)
Pursued Justice for all (come on)


He's quantifiably a bad president. And having 8 years to enact his shit over the span of a globe as opposed to a region magnifies that.

Bush is in a Regan, Nixon level of bad presidencies. Pillaging of domestic prosperity while driving America to be an overall global destabilizing force on multiple fronts.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Vertigo
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Tue May-19-20 03:06 PM

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10. "33rd of 45...um, that's pretty much what I said"
In response to Reply # 9


          

I said bottom of the mid rung of presidents. You said absolute bottom or second to it. Your link backs me up, and I agree with all that you wrote. 👍🏿

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Tue May-19-20 03:15 PM

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14. "He's not far from the bottom"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

And he's only propped up from the bottom by fluff.
I think there needs to be a tier of presidencies based on the nature of the world.
There are very few tangible ways that you can reasonably compare the presidency of John Adams to Jimmy Carter


I'd bucket Washington to Lincoln
Johnson to Roosevelt the first
Taft to FDR
Truman to current.

Then of bucket one Jackson is the worst, bucket two Hayes, bucket three Wilson, bucket four Trump then Regan then Nixon then Bush

They'll get propped up by Historians because of their positives, but there has to be a net negative for war (Vietnam/Korea/Iraq), genocide (Trail of Tears), entrenching white supremacy (the Hayes compromise, most anything to do with the Supreme Court) and historians don't really do that.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue May-19-20 03:10 PM

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11. "It’s hard to quantify because I wasn’t around for most Presidents"
In response to Reply # 6


          

Reagan was shit too but I was too young to really inhale all of his destruction.

W tho.. what he and Cheney did to our rights, our military and how Katrina played out. That shut was terrible.



****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue May-19-20 03:36 PM

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17. "My dude, W started an elective Never Ending War"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

when the real culprits were "allies" we protected and sell weapons to all the time.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66335 posts
Thu Jun-04-20 06:55 PM

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59. "The largest economic drop since the great depression is average?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          




(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
20471 posts
Tue May-19-20 01:31 PM

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3. "Trump is worse"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue May-19-20 01:32 PM by MEAT

  

          

Early in this administration it was a question of is he worse than GWB or Reagan in dismantling the state.

Then he started to ramp up his fascism (the stealing of children and giving them to religious orgs without documentation or tracking policies that continue to this day and permanent encampments, specifically) and it became a question of is he worse than Andrew Jackson and his genocidal tendencies. Of the enslaver presidents Jackson is levels above (below) the rest.

But now he's doing something that none of the other presidents did which is strip down the country for parts. America is beholden to the personal and financial interests of one man and his family; and the leverage that buys the rest of the world in the interests of our country, land, and assets is completely unprecedented.

Even in the worst of times, the shitty presidents believed in and defended the country (not all people in the country, and not even necessarily the tenets of democracy) but the country itself.

There's not a single, not one, action Trump has done to benefit America. His core belief is that because he's president anything that helps him personally helps America and he's expressed this multiple times ("a president can't have conflicts of interest) and that's a flat out lie. In fact actions that benefit him directly almost always make this country worse.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue May-19-20 03:11 PM

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12. "No lies told. Seeing him fire IG after IG and all his people going "
In response to Reply # 3


          

to jail and then getting off?

Smh..

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Willong
Member since Jun 08th 2009
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Wed May-20-20 12:37 PM

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41. "RE: Trump is worse"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Let’s wait and see how many invitations to Goldman Sachs he pulls in when he’s done. It’s all about the Tubmans after all. You could be right that he is profiting from his position. Let’s compare his increased net worth with Obama’s and the Clinton’s and see how it all shakes out.

  

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MEAT
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Wed May-20-20 12:42 PM

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42. "This is dumb. I hope nobody replies with anything but derision"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
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Tue May-19-20 01:39 PM

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4. "RE: Is Trump A Worst President than George Washington?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Slave ownership is fucked up (an understatement), but it’s overt and outwardly fucked up. Trump’s racism and the racism he inspires in his supporters is some backwards ass bitch shit because they’re some “throw a rock and hide your hands” shit if you call them out on it.

“Ummm, yeah bitch, we ALL own slaves. You know how expensive it is to build a country from scratch?!” vs. “I’m sorry a nigger had to die, but I was exercising my right to a citizen’s arrest. What other rights are you gonna say I can’t have access to?!”

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue May-19-20 03:13 PM

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13. "When he said he could shoot someone in broad daylight"
In response to Reply # 4


          

and then said grab them by the pussy.

I think that pretty much put him at the top of the list.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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hardware
Member since May 22nd 2007
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Tue May-19-20 03:29 PM

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15. "i wasn't alive for $500, Alex"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Tue May-19-20 03:34 PM

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16. "You weren’t alive for Stalin, Hitler, or Khan"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue May-19-20 03:58 PM

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20. "I agree it's a strange response. "
In response to Reply # 16


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Adwhizz
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Tue May-19-20 03:49 PM

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18. "Probably the most unqualified"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

then again I'm actually alive/an adult to see his Term

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Tue May-19-20 03:54 PM

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19. "Why does being alive to understand something historical matter"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Particularly when it's foundational to today and well documented, measured, and tracked over time.
You don't need to have been alive to recognize that the Ice Age was terrible for the capacity of living things

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Adwhizz
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Tue May-19-20 04:30 PM

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27. "If nothing else the fact it's 2020 and there's more avenues"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

for the current guy to display his ignorance.


James K Polk might have been a giant dummy too, but he didn't have a Twitter account and video cameras around to capture him constantly doing moronic stuff

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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MEAT
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Tue May-19-20 04:33 PM

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28. "Personal capacity matters less than actions"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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cgonz00cc
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Wed May-20-20 08:49 AM

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33. "thats his point lol"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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MEAT
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34. "No, his point is Polk didn't display his ignorance publically."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

My point is that displays of ignorance are less consequential than the actual major actions that presidents perform.
Their gaffes and faux pas may be culturally memorable but the actions of the office have ramifications throughout history and change the trajectory of humanity.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Marbles
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Tue May-19-20 04:00 PM

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21. "Bad people vs Bad presidents"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Carter isn't considered a great president but there's probably not a better man to have held the office.

I imagine some of those slave holders may have been good presidents and may have done good for the country (according to their times) but keeping people in bondage makes you a terrible human being.

45 is showing us that's he's terrible at both.

  

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MEAT
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Tue May-19-20 04:12 PM

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23. "Building a system on the back of enslaving and breeding people is bad"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

You can't be a good president if you buildup a system from maximizing bad
Whether it's human beings via enslavement, manifest destiny ravaging the middle of America, expanding via the Louisiana Purchase ... it's not good.
If you bulldoze the amazon to build a field of hospitals for kids with cancer you're still doing something awful.
What the American presidency has been is about what's expedient for growth for the country, damn the costs. But the costs matter a lot.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13238 posts
Wed May-20-20 12:42 PM

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43. "Healthiness is bad for a virus."
In response to Reply # 23


          

>You can't be a good president if you buildup a system from
>maximizing bad
>Whether it's human beings via enslavement, manifest destiny
>ravaging the middle of America, expanding via the Louisiana
>Purchase ... it's not good.
>If you bulldoze the amazon to build a field of hospitals for
>kids with cancer you're still doing something awful.
>What the American presidency has been is about what's
>expedient for growth for the country, damn the costs. But the
>costs matter a lot.


The question here is who the costs matter to and who finds them awful... and why.
They matter to you and I, because they affect you and I, but if we assume that the country and its "higher" principles weren't intended for you and I, we have a different discussion.

"This is how they view you" as the saying goes.

If black people are simply the necessary underclass, what negatively affects us isn't viewed as negatively affecting the country. In fact, what negatively affects us is often seen as exactly what's necessary to HELP the country (slavery being a prime example... controlling our population by any means, including murder, being another).

Depending on how you view it, being "good" for a country founded upon murder and deceitfulness can easily involve enslavement and more killing. Just like a virus, healthiness is bad for it.

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Wed May-20-20 12:47 PM

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44. "I'm not talking about subjectively bad, I'm talking about objectively ba..."
In response to Reply # 43
Wed May-20-20 12:49 PM by MEAT

  

          

In the 80s people took crazy amount of steroids and broke all kinds of world records and didn't amazing feats of athleticism ... then their bodies broke down.

When you're dealing with humans, living in a world that came millions of years before them and will last millions of years after them maximizing the good for only a small number of people is not in the best interest of the planet or the species.

Eradicating cultures, humans, species, and ecosystems in the name of money and dominance is objectively bad.

Sodas are bad for me. I drink sodas anyways. Even if I was the CEO of Pepsi, sodas would still be bad for me. They'd just personally enrich me.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Wed May-20-20 01:06 PM

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45. "You're talking about all of humanity vs a racist republic."
In response to Reply # 44


          

>In the 80s people took crazy amount of steroids and broke all
>kinds of world records and didn't amazing feats of athleticism
>... then their bodies broke down.


This is a fact with no point attached. According to this discussion, I would assume you're saying they did this for America in the Olympics, but I can't be sure.


>When you're dealing with humans, living in a world that came
>millions of years before them and will last millions of years
>after them maximizing the good for only a small number of
>people is not in the best interest of the planet or the
>species.


Some might argue that a good president does what's best for his country, not the planet or the species. This is how white supremacist logic appears to operate... and the country was founded by white supremacists. I want to reiterate that this is how you and I feel, of course, but I think it's important to keep in mind that this view isn't as common as many of us wish it was. White people would seriously destroy this planet and move to Mars before following higher moral principles for the sake of respecting non-white people.


>Eradicating cultures, humans, species, and ecosystems in the
>name of money and dominance is objectively bad.


Of course I agree.


>Sodas are bad for me. I drink sodas anyways. Even if I was
>the CEO of Pepsi, sodas would still be bad for me. They'd just
>personally enrich me.


Bad comparison. In this analogy, America would be the Pepsicola institution or your bank account... which the purchase and highly probable consumption of Pepsi would always be good for... yet still bad for humanity.


~
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~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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47. "RE: You're talking about all of humanity vs a racist republic."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

You lost me. I'm going to summarize my original point that you responded to.

Marbles: Carter was a good man. Enslaving presidents were terrible people but maybe good presidents.

Me: You can't be a good president if you enslave people, because you're propping up and institutionalizing a destructive and unsustainable system.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Boogie Stimuli
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48. "RE: You're talking about all of humanity vs a racist republic."
In response to Reply # 47


          

Umm.... ok.

No need to summarize, as I understood everything you said.

I'll assume you just don't want to continue, since you didn't ask for clarification of whatever I said that lost you... which is cool w/ me. No worries.

Peace.

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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46. "I don't think that you're wrong..."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>You can't be a good president if you buildup a system from
>maximizing bad
>Whether it's human beings via enslavement, manifest destiny
>ravaging the middle of America, expanding via the Louisiana
>Purchase ... it's not good.
>If you bulldoze the amazon to build a field of hospitals for
>kids with cancer you're still doing something awful.
>What the American presidency has been is about what's
>expedient for growth for the country, damn the costs. But the
>costs matter a lot.

I just don't necessarily think that the Presidency of the United States is a position intended to be a force for good. It's not necessarily a position held by men of high moral character. I believe that it's use is intended to increase & maintain power for the US.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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40. "I agree that it sounds like Bad people vs Bad presidents"
In response to Reply # 21


          

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Numba_33
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22. "I can't believe I'm going to type out this phrase"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but Trump's one saving grace is that he hasn't started any new wars. Not to say he hasn't been a complete an utter disaster on an international level, but at least he doesn't have any wars he started of his own volition on his resume of incompetence.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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MEAT
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25. "That's not from lack of trying. This year started with an assissination"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

The withdrawl from Syria saw us lose a valuable ally in the Turks
He's abandoned Ukraine
In the last month he's asked his generals to fire upon Iranian ships


The ONLY ONLY reason he's not started a war is because he's aligned his personal interests to those countries most against us

So instead of fighting wars over assets and/or culture he's aligning with them an personally profiting off of them all while not protecting global democracy.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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30. "Yep and all of this is (or will be) worse long term, probably."
In response to Reply # 25


          

For both the country and the world.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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24. "If Trump could have slaves he'd be bitching about how unfair"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

his slaves were to him.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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26. "No he'd have some of them killed, then prop up a house one to show his"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Kindness
And he'd also rape many and often. Because he's a rapist.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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mrhood75
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29. "I'm kinda shocked Drumf hasn't re-instituted slavery..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

... as a means to stimulate the economy.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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31. "Instead of using the defense protection act to compel production of ppe"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

He allowed prison labor to fill the gap.
That’s about as close as he can get

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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32. "In my lifetime, Nixon, Regan & Bush were even worse (so far)..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

....All time?? I mean, Andrew Johnson was pretty much the Trump of the time back then, a rich slave owner who put together a group of other rich southern slave owners to run shit and silence all anti-slavery talk. His treatment of Native Americans was awful as well, kicking them off their own land and shipping them west.

There's a lot of shitty humans who have been president. I feel like the only ones that were actual decent people are Obama and Jimmy Carter.


-----------------------------------------
https://www.instagram.com/dj_chief_one
(Live Mixshow Thursday Nights 9PM/EST)

https://soundcloud.com/djchiefone
https://www.mixcloud.com/djchiefone
https://www.twitch.tv/djchiefone

  

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MEAT
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35. "Johnson or Jackson?"
In response to Reply # 32
Wed May-20-20 08:58 AM by MEAT

  

          

.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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38. "Yes Jackson, my mistake.. "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

-----------------------------------------
https://www.instagram.com/dj_chief_one
(Live Mixshow Thursday Nights 9PM/EST)

https://soundcloud.com/djchiefone
https://www.mixcloud.com/djchiefone
https://www.twitch.tv/djchiefone

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed May-20-20 09:00 AM

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36. "I think you're thinking of Andrew Jackson."
In response to Reply # 32
Wed May-20-20 09:04 AM by stravinskian

          

Whom Trump explicitly models his administration on, BTW.

Johnson was shitty too, but in different ways.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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37. "Easily Trump and it isn't close"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Trump only doesn't engage in chattel slavery because the constraints of the times he lives in.

He's obviously got no problem with human trafficking aka 'white slavery'.

Trump is constrained only by constraints that have been put in place to stop things like genocide. Not by any aversion to them. He doesn't lack the mentality, he lacks the mechanism.

Right today, as I type this, he is trying to find ways to withhold federal funds from states for supplying absentee ballots to their residents to disenfranchise people so that he can remain in power is unheard of.

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Wed May-20-20 12:22 PM

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39. "Reiterating this seems more of worse president vs worse person"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-20-20 12:49 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

If black people are simply the necessary underclass, what negatively affects us isn't viewed as negatively affecting the country. In fact, what negatively affects us is often seen as exactly what's necessary to HELP the country (slavery being a prime example... controlling our population by any means, including murder, being another).

Depending on how you view it, being "good" for a country founded upon murder and deceitfulness can easily involve enslavement and more killing. Just like a virus, healthiness is bad for it. Is America a body with a virus? Or is it the virus itself?

That said, the answer to the "worse president" question would have to be Trump, because he'll run the whole country in the ground rather than just mistreating black folks as a means of keeping it afloat. As a black person tho, my answer to the "worse person" question is fuck all of 'em.

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Brew
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49. "With you, and everyone above who made similar points, 100%."
In response to Reply # 39


          

>RE: Reiterating this seems more of worse president vs worse person
>If black people are simply the necessary underclass, what
>negatively affects us isn't viewed as negatively affecting the
>country. In fact, what negatively affects us is often seen as
>exactly what's necessary to HELP the country (slavery being a
>prime example... controlling our population by any means,
>including murder, being another).
>
>Depending on how you view it, being "good" for a country
>founded upon murder and deceitfulness can easily involve
>enslavement and more killing. Just like a virus, healthiness
>is bad for it. Is America a body with a virus? Or is it the
>virus itself?
>
>That said, the answer to the "worse president" question would
>have to be Trump, because he'll run the whole country in the
>ground rather than just mistreating black folks as a means of
>keeping it afloat. As a black person tho, my answer to the
>"worse person" question is fuck all of 'em.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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justin_scott
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50. "that's a tough argument"
In response to Reply # 0


          

most of those early presidents at least did some good things for the presidency or the union, etc. trump doesn't even have that, though he isn't a slave owner (granted he would have been one and would still be one if he could today).

i can understand any vote for a slave owner president, or andrew jackson for multiple reasons, or nixon/reagan, but there's no way that either bush was worse.

************************************************************

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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51. "Sooooooo"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Thu Jun-04-20 02:53 PM

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52. "Trump is much worse and I would also mention"
In response to Reply # 0


          

At least Washington willingly walked away from the presidency and power, despite people calling for him to stay in power and even assume the role of king.

If Trump were the first president of the US we wouldn’t have had a second President. Even now trump is doing everything in his power to minimize voter turn out, suppress minority voting, actively court foreign influence and help and spread misinformation.

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
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Thu Jun-04-20 04:15 PM

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53. "Bush destroyed 2 countries and let an entire city drown."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Also, he allowed the largest terrorist attack in American history to occur on his watch.

And he collapsed the economy in spectacular fashion.

And he pushed the legislation that led to the student debt crisis.

And he oversaw the establishment of the security state.

How the fuck is this even a debate?




(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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54. "The bush bat signal flies and you just pop up huh. "
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
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Thu Jun-04-20 05:41 PM

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56. "I just don't know if those Iraqi kids deserved to be exploded. "
In response to Reply # 54


  

          


(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  

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Lardlad95
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57. "The nigga legit stole an election."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

Like some banana republic shit.


If that Florida shit had happened in any other country we'd have called for sanctions and possibly military intervention.



(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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55. "BTW, to say GWB would've handled all of this so much better than Trump"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Isn't necessarily a compliment to Dubya. It's really a testament to how truly awful Trump is compared to who I thought was the worst president in modern history.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Thu Jun-04-20 06:41 PM

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58. "I fear people dont understand the long term damage Trump has done"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Stacking the courts, undoing environmental policy, getting rid of watch dogs and oversight, etc. His impact will be felt by our kids and kids kids. Hes HORRIFIC

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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60. "Bush also did everything you named. "
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

But I do think it will take time to see exactly how much damage he has done.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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jswerve386
Member since Jun 25th 2007
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Fri Jun-05-20 10:51 AM

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61. "Why do you think Washington was a bad president?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and if you just say "he owned slaves" ill write you off as a simpleton.

yupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyup

  

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IsaIsaIsa
Member since May 01st 2008
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73. "^^^White Twitter "
In response to Reply # 61


          


www.Tupreme.com

https://ibb.co/k4m6n8C

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Fri Jun-05-20 10:57 AM

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62. "Both were allegedly rapist/pedophiles BUT"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

one was one of thee biggest human traffickers in US history.

I'm gonna go with powder face George.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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handle
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63. "Trumps says " George is looking down right now and saying, ‘This is a ..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

“Hopefully, George is looking down right now and saying, ‘This is a great thing happening for our country,” Trump said of Floyd, who died in police custody last week. “A great day for him, a great day for everybody. This is great day for everybody.”

But he's talking about Geroge Floyd.

I SHIT YOU NOT!!!!!!!

https://pressfrom.info/us/news/opinion/-453840-trump-george-floyd-is-looking-down-and-celebrating-this-great-day.html

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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Fri Jun-05-20 11:05 AM

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64. "At least Trump has a plan for addressing systemic racism"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1268928142632157186

So, there's that.

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Wed Jul-08-20 01:37 PM

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65. "So now that he's getting his genocide on .... anyone want to change?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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66. "***raises hand*** "
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

-----------------------------------------
https://www.instagram.com/dj_chief_one
(Live Mixshow Thursday Nights 9PM/EST)

https://soundcloud.com/djchiefone
https://www.mixcloud.com/djchiefone
https://www.twitch.tv/djchiefone

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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67. "Well ..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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68. "I have arrived at Trump is the Worst President and the Worst Person to h..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the office even if hopefully he will not be the President who does the most damage to the country (I say hopefully but only time will tell).

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Mon Jan-11-21 11:04 AM

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69. "Didn't George *actually* fight an *actually* repressive regime?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He lead an actual army.

Trump also came at a time where he had the benefit of hindsight to the moral failings of our history. Rather than seek to set himself apart as an improvement, he actively sought a return to less humanist ideals.

I think there are myriad things that make a significant difference when evaluating when evaluating whether or not this piece of trash iss objectively worse than an actual slave owner.

Shit, he doesn't even care about his own people. They're unwitting tools in servitude of him.

He incited an actual insurrection in response to losing an election.

Maybe deeper examination would yield a different result, but on the surface I'd say it's easy to say Trumo is worse, and its it's not close.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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70. "Naw Geo Washington wanted to steal more land from the indigenous"
In response to Reply # 69
Mon Jan-11-21 03:38 PM by Musa

  

          

and dominate the slave trade.

I don't see how anyone of African ancestry could say Trump is worse than Washington.

Geo Washington had mixed kids from his rape running around and over 300 people on his plantation.

He got rich off of human trafficking and "Land speculation" a fancy word for GENTRIFICATION and land THEFT.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41660 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 05:25 PM

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71. "that's why I cited Trump having the benefit of hindsight"
In response to Reply # 70
Mon Jan-11-21 05:26 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

I do not believe it was ever moral to own slaves, nor do I buy the excuse that we should look at it in the context of the time.

But I do believe that, in terms of direct comparison, with centuries worth of progress and a moral compass that has largely improved on multiple fronts, it becomes a contextual sticking point.

So owning slaves is definitively worse than not owning slaves, and is also worse than simply being a garden variety racist, so that distinction is more significant to the question of who is the worse person.

To the question of who is the worse president, I think the criteria changes a bit. And in this case, Trump is quite literally working to overthrow our democracy, and not because of the yoke of oppressive leadership, but because he lost a contest.

From the standpoint of which is the worst president, I'd say that's a gargantuan reason to vote Trump in this specific context.

Slavery kills any pretense that casts our founding fathers as heroes, and the damage from that reverberates to this day. It can be argued that everything we see now, up to and including the existence of Trump's presidency, stems from their choice to use slavery to build this country.

So I may be overvaluing the benefit of being to look at the horrible decvisions of the past, because it assumes he and the rest of that fucking party thought they were horrible to begin with.

I guess I'm all over place with this. I agree with you in general, but I think what Trump has done, from the primaries all the way up to his lies and treatment of COVID through this coup attempt and a million places in between make him the clear "winner" over George on this one, from the standpoint of what makes each a worse president.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15591 posts
Mon Jan-11-21 08:31 PM

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72. "Our democracy is a matter of perspective and historical anaylsis"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

This country was nothing close to a democracy until 1964 and even that was at face value.

Trump just exposed for all those that can't read between the lines in my opinion.

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