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Lobby General Discussion topic #13359188

Subject: "ukelection....aka brexit part 2. all i can say is... wow" Previous topic | Next topic
akon
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26915 posts
Thu Dec-12-19 08:42 PM

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"ukelection....aka brexit part 2. all i can say is... wow"


  

          

im hoping this is not a bellwether for the U.S election
totally hadn't expected the tories to win a clear majority.
the car crash continues.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
man...
Dec 12th 2019
1
Like I said.. I’m already mentally prepped for the 2020 letdown
Dec 12th 2019
2
      I don't know if any of these candidates are smart enough
Dec 12th 2019
3
They have a big, giant issue that makes analogies complex
Dec 13th 2019
4
do you think the labour party lost votes by going too far left?
Dec 14th 2019
6
      Not really
Dec 14th 2019
7
           I too have heard that Brexit makes it hard to compare BUT...
Dec 14th 2019
8
it's infuriating.
Dec 13th 2019
5
bojo made many unrealistic promises
Dec 15th 2019
9
      some comments I've read as of recent have added perspective
Dec 15th 2019
10

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130349 posts
Thu Dec-12-19 09:29 PM

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1. "man..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

niggas are COWARDS, and the media is absolute dog shit.

there is no reason for anyone to vote Conservative, ever.

and now we're gonna hear endless pap about how "progressives can't win" and people slurping it up.

shit's rigged.

the Scarecrow was right. you can't win.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
63626 posts
Thu Dec-12-19 09:35 PM

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2. "Like I said.. I’m already mentally prepped for the 2020 letdown"
In response to Reply # 1


          

These white people don’t want progress

shut up already, damn

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130349 posts
Thu Dec-12-19 11:39 PM

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3. "I don't know if any of these candidates are smart enough"
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Dec-12-19 11:40 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

to mitigate the combination of lies (either told, or aided and abetted by the corporate media), voter suppression and other cheats, and unforced errors that are sure to ensue in an anti-Trump campaign.

Obama was... in 2008. and they threw the kitchen sink at him. including the Clinton campaign in the primaries. him even getting past Iowa was a long shot.

in this UK campaign, niggas basically ran a whole bunch of lies about Corbyn, who mostly ran a positive campaign. stuck to the issues.

but he has a "Hillary"-esque rep there despite having infinitely better politics than she does.

because niggas lie.

  

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Walleye
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14611 posts
Fri Dec-13-19 08:16 AM

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4. "They have a big, giant issue that makes analogies complex"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Folks who typically break their arms congratulating themselves for a nuanced political understanding are going to take the easy Corbyn/Sanders:Johnson/Trump comparison, and they're right that this was a devastating blow for the socialist politics. But the looming Brexit issue doesn't have an analogy in America and that's really going to make the above comparison fall a bit flat.

Labour activists like Owen Jones were helpfully candid last night for those of us who try to follow this stuff but don't have the broad familiarity with British politics. His view was that the coalition they tried to build to float Labour turned out to be too heavy a trick, and it wasn't a coalition that mimes American Dem Left and American Dem Center, it was around Brexit. A Labour coalition that brought together the remain position and the Brexit position in the demand for a new referendum based on a specific deal was too tough to pull off.

It's a political failure, to be sure. But there have been successful left/liberal coalitions in some other western European elections lately (Portugal, for instance) but they don't speak English there so we aren't as likely to view them as a close approximation of our political culture.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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makaveli
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15093 posts
Sat Dec-14-19 02:50 PM

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6. "do you think the labour party lost votes by going too far left?"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Walleye
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14611 posts
Sat Dec-14-19 03:31 PM

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7. "Not really"
In response to Reply # 6
Sat Dec-14-19 03:32 PM by Walleye

          

I think my bias there is pretty well established, and I'm not particularly confident in my grasp of British politics - but if we want to pad those caveats out with some context here's what I got for you to do what you want with:

-The LibDems exist as an option and it doesn't seem like they got support that Labour bled. Shit, Jo Swinson went down.

-My understanding is the Labour Manifesto was pretty much the same as it was in 2017, with the exception of the new referendum for Brexit, and they had a huge gain that election.

-Labour hasn't had a majority since like 2010, and have been taking it on the chin in most elections besides 2017. And it's not like Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband were particularly far left.

-Their response to the biggest issue of the election was kind of a compromise position: negotiate a new Brexit deal and put the specifics of that deal up for another referendum. The idea was a coalition that could please remainers and the not-small amount of responsible brexiters.

Somebody with some more specific expertise on this (I got nothing - just some British friends who talk a lot) can weigh in on all of these, but I'd actually love some over-the-pond insight on my most ignorant claim: the big gain by SNP kind of verifies that this election was mostly about Brexit, not some broader idea of too-left or moderate that dominates American politics. The bump in support for SNP is a nod toward Scotland's right to figure out their own part in Britain's changing relationship with Europe. Or not. Again, I'd love somebody smarter to tell me about that one.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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44529 posts
Sat Dec-14-19 07:42 PM

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8. "I too have heard that Brexit makes it hard to compare BUT..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I worry about the role that disinformation played in the UK election and if it turns out that disinformation played a decisive role in conservatives win then we have ALOT to be worried about.

And the fact is further left candidates are hurt more by disinformation if Facebook allows ads to run that says Bernie or Warren are going to be radical socialist experimenters who are going to raise everyone's taxes 1000% and get rid of private property.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130349 posts
Fri Dec-13-19 11:39 AM

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5. "it's infuriating."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Dec-13-19 11:42 AM by Dr Claw

  

          

more austerity, more poor people duped into supporting the bullshit, and no one but a handful of turdbuckets and their servants actually "win". things are about to get ridiculous.

all because of the Brexit shit and motherfuckers lying.

calling dude an antisemite without proof. media going along with it. if they don't tell the lie outright, they aid and abet it by putting it in the headlines.

actual proof of the Tories being racist and antisemitic is real and copious.

does Dan Reed's bellend ass actually direct fucking elections TOO? God damn.

I don't get why Corbyn is hated so much aside from the lies. I don't blame him so much as I do that annoying centrist liberal wing that wanted a Brexit redo over this shit and forced that issue.

fuck Nigel Farage in the goat ass.

another day, another hard-right ethnostate enforced by austerity. this sucks ASS.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com
Does he ACCEPT? http://i.imgur.com/TBMrAkD.jpg

  

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akon
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26915 posts
Sun Dec-15-19 06:32 PM

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9. "bojo made many unrealistic promises"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


and still is. if they leave by jan 2020 their economy will shrink so not sure where they are going to get the billions of sterlings to spend

the welfare cuts under the tories have been pretty severe
i dont understand how any rational adult in the U.K looked at the past ~10 years and was like, more of the same please.

i also dont quite understand how labour pretty much lost its heartlands.
i also dont understand how unpopular corbyn is - not sure how much of that is disinfo and the media bias toward the conservatives
at least they seem to triple check and highlight everything corbyn does and says but they let bojo hide in fridges

the brits are something else

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130349 posts
Sun Dec-15-19 08:53 PM

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10. "some comments I've read as of recent have added perspective"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

regarding Corbyn as scapegoat:

pre-Corbyn, Labour had become a London-centric, pro-war, pro-austerity centrist party. Notoriously, Tony Blair (who was their leader at the time) collaborated with George W. Bush on the Iraq war.

By 2010, Labour had lost millions of votes.

Comparatively, Corbyn had more actual votes cast for Labour in 2019 versus 2010 and 2015...and that's WITH the Brexit BS.

The loss of seats speaks to a political realignment.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com
Does he ACCEPT? http://i.imgur.com/TBMrAkD.jpg

  

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