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Subject: "Impeachment Hearings - Bribery, Extortion, & Kuruption in the WH" Previous topic | Next topic
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 10:34 AM

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"Impeachment Hearings - Bribery, Extortion, & Kuruption in the WH"


          

Figured we could use a new thread for the public hearings. Plus I just wanted to write "Kuruption" cause I love Kurupt and that album.

I'm not gonna be able to follow as closely as I'd like in real time so hopefully when I check in intermittently you guys will take care of me w/links and updates as usual.

Merry Impeachmas !

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
My speculation is that there’s gonna be a whole bunch of speculation o...
Nov 13th 2019
1
Yea I hope dems are better prepared for that inevitability.
Nov 13th 2019
2
I hope they know the ledge
Nov 13th 2019
3
      Well played.
Nov 13th 2019
4
           I ain’t no joke
Nov 13th 2019
6
Eric B just got locked up
Nov 13th 2019
19
      The only island he was on was the Strong one.
Nov 13th 2019
20
      Ha I legit came here to post this.
Nov 13th 2019
21
           Yeah, but I set em straight
Nov 13th 2019
22
I am a fan of the pivot from quid pro quo to extortion/bribery
Nov 13th 2019
5
hopefully the public takes this more serious than just a poem
Nov 13th 2019
7
I don't see any Trump supporter caring about Ukraine.
Nov 13th 2019
8
His base supporters aren't going anywhere no matter what.
Nov 13th 2019
9
      Yup, his base is loyal
Nov 13th 2019
12
      Exactly - likewise.
Nov 13th 2019
13
      I think a lot of folks are just exhausted by him and everything...
Nov 13th 2019
16
I'm not hearing any new info...the R defense should be self evident
Nov 13th 2019
10
What.
Nov 13th 2019
14
^this
Nov 13th 2019
17
LOL at this clown shit
Nov 13th 2019
15
ive been catching most of it
Nov 13th 2019
18
^^Gassed up
Nov 14th 2019
23
whats it like to believe so hard in conspiracy theories?
Nov 14th 2019
25
you were saying
Nov 18th 2019
63
no, really....you were saying?
Nov 20th 2019
79
      Pompeo, Mulvaney and Bolton are the money testimonies
Nov 20th 2019
80
           have you ever read your sig?
Nov 20th 2019
92
side news from the Stone trial if you didn't see it
Nov 13th 2019
11
Sondland is gonna have to answer for that call next week
Nov 14th 2019
24
Yea wild.
Nov 14th 2019
26
maybe im just dreaming
Nov 14th 2019
27
      God I hope you're right. But so many others semi-similar to him ...
Nov 14th 2019
28
      Here's not looking to be a hero.
Nov 14th 2019
29
that other staff member is testifying privately next week.
Nov 14th 2019
30
isnt it tomorrow?
Nov 14th 2019
31
      youre right. theres a 2nd person now too.
Nov 14th 2019
33
Sondland is going to make or break this
Nov 14th 2019
32
Parnas claims he discussed Ukraine with Trump
Nov 14th 2019
34
What You’d Have to Believe to Let Donald Trump Off the Hook
Nov 15th 2019
35
brilliant move by schiff to bring the tweet up during the hearing.
Nov 15th 2019
36
talk about breaking the fourth wall. And how tepid was Mueller in
Nov 15th 2019
37
i think mueller physically/mentally wasnt there.
Nov 15th 2019
38
Almost like impeachment pressure made Trump screw up?
Nov 15th 2019
39
whats happened?
Nov 15th 2019
40
Trump attacked a witness on Twitter as she was testifying
Nov 15th 2019
41
They recessed for House votes.
Nov 15th 2019
42
https://twitter.com/RexHuppke/status/1195379470573690881
Nov 15th 2019
49
Yavonovich opening statement was soul crushing
Nov 15th 2019
43
Reading it now and it's very powerful
Nov 15th 2019
45
      My friends and family that work for the feds are constantly disgusted by...
Nov 15th 2019
46
Roger Stone guilty on all 7 counts.
Nov 15th 2019
44
https://twitter.com/JimmyDonofrio/status/1195388046608412672
Nov 15th 2019
48
      LOLLLLL
Nov 17th 2019
54
I wouldn’t want Steve Castor on my legal team
Nov 15th 2019
47
these early poll numbers are pretty brutal.
Nov 15th 2019
50
"You can tell the Kardashians you tried"
Nov 15th 2019
51
its amazing what dems can do when they actually focus on messaging.
Nov 17th 2019
52
It's not like they're dealing with a sophisticated criminal
Nov 17th 2019
53
so far its going well
Nov 18th 2019
55
*70%* of americans believe trump did something wrong.
Nov 18th 2019
56
What's the tipping point for the GOP?
Nov 18th 2019
57
They have to feel it's safe. People talk about Lindsey Graham
Nov 18th 2019
61
i dont like to spend too much time on the politics of it
Nov 18th 2019
58
To be fair, this is a poll of just 506 people.
Nov 18th 2019
59
of the 21% following closely...*67%* want impeachment and removal.
Nov 18th 2019
62
trump is dead in the qanon universe now.
Nov 18th 2019
60
What the
Nov 18th 2019
64
These fools doubling down on using Solomon
Nov 19th 2019
65
Pretty rich for fucking Nunes to invoke a "we tried to subpoena ...
Nov 19th 2019
66
He's the POSTER BOY for being a Reublican today
Nov 19th 2019
67
Yea.
Nov 19th 2019
68
sounds like by going through the list of people Vindman contacted
Nov 19th 2019
70
      no toeing he was headed straight there before schiff shut it down
Nov 19th 2019
71
           yeah that was poorly worded. he was going there for sure
Nov 19th 2019
73
           Yes exactly. Schiff is brilliant, by the way.
Nov 19th 2019
75
vindman sounded really nervous on his opening statement
Nov 19th 2019
69
with her lying ass
Nov 19th 2019
74
a prestigious position offering seems to be central to how
Nov 19th 2019
72
do you have any evidence that big foot isnt singing karaoke right now?
Nov 19th 2019
76
http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/1218A9KM2MKzBK/giphy.gif
Nov 19th 2019
77
^^^ for the Gordon problem
Nov 20th 2019
78
THIS WILL NOT END WELL ©
Nov 20th 2019
81
      lmao
Nov 20th 2019
82
Tekashi69 lookin at this mf Sondland like wtf???
Nov 20th 2019
83
"Everyone was in the loop" Takeshi 6xSondland
Nov 20th 2019
84
i was not expecting sondland to go all in like that.
Nov 20th 2019
85
we primarily discussed a$ap rocky
Nov 20th 2019
86
I'm sayin'! That shit is in historical record!
Nov 20th 2019
87
RE: I'm sayin'! That shit is in historical record!
Nov 20th 2019
88
LOL
Nov 20th 2019
89
everything came back to me when he mentioned a$ap rocky
Nov 20th 2019
97
That'll be the first time in history
Nov 20th 2019
101
we in a bad place
Nov 20th 2019
103
look at devin nunes face lol
Nov 20th 2019
90
lmao! Bruh is lookin cooked!
Nov 20th 2019
91
was that before the break? I was watching live and lol'd
Nov 20th 2019
93
Word is this bozo has walked outside the WH to get cameras on him.
Nov 20th 2019
94
who??
Nov 20th 2019
95
      Donald Trump
Nov 20th 2019
96
sondland chose to save himself over the prez
Nov 20th 2019
98
On paper, Sondland was the one
Nov 20th 2019
104
      its funny that nunes said sondland would be smeared today
Nov 20th 2019
105
      Trump will definitely bring up the fact that he originally supported Jeb...
Nov 20th 2019
107
Shout out to Mike Pompeo
Nov 20th 2019
99
RE: Impeachment Hearings - Bribery, Extortion, & Kuruption in the WH
Nov 20th 2019
100
bruh.
Nov 20th 2019
102
shoutout to FWMJ. he bodied this:
Nov 20th 2019
106
Holy balls that's perfect!
Nov 20th 2019
127
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
Nov 20th 2019
108
I... I mean... that can't be real, right?
Nov 20th 2019
109
Oh it was a SONG.
Nov 21st 2019
151
I think this has been a good day for the Fascists.
Nov 20th 2019
110
what the fuck?!
Nov 20th 2019
111
Well I want to be clear that I'm talking in reference to moving the need...
Nov 20th 2019
112
      i mean, every fair and reasoned person with credibility...
Nov 20th 2019
113
      Even Ken Starr who has zero credibility is like “damn”
Nov 20th 2019
115
      This is our problem:
Nov 20th 2019
116
      that's where news happens in 2019. welcome to the present.
Nov 20th 2019
117
           Yeah, that's exactly what I meant
Nov 20th 2019
119
                Correct.
Nov 20th 2019
120
                great analogy.
Nov 20th 2019
122
                Haha yea the fixes are sitting on Moscow Mitch's desk.
Nov 20th 2019
123
                nothing gets accomplished on twitter
Nov 20th 2019
124
                     EXACTLY.
Nov 20th 2019
125
                     Part of the issue
Nov 20th 2019
126
                          A - hilarious and amazing
Nov 20th 2019
128
                          Here you go *swipe*
Nov 20th 2019
130
                               ugh, fuck this guy
Nov 20th 2019
131
                                    Agreed
Nov 20th 2019
132
                          Great point.
Nov 20th 2019
129
      ... and none of those people really matter in the context of what I'm .....
Nov 20th 2019
118
      I get what you are saying.
Nov 20th 2019
114
           Right - exactly.
Nov 20th 2019
121
Yeah, this is a pretty cold hot take.
Nov 20th 2019
133
the Nunes faces were great today
Nov 20th 2019
135
so good.
Nov 20th 2019
138
      Some interesting Nunes news
Nov 20th 2019
143
It wasn't a hot take.
Nov 20th 2019
137
      Sorry, dude, "Today has been bad" and "Sondland's not a great witness"
Nov 20th 2019
139
           exactly.
Nov 20th 2019
142
           Ha - I clarified my stance and you went silent but cool co-sign.
Nov 20th 2019
145
                Yeah, I saw.
Nov 21st 2019
149
                     Dynamite drop-in.
Nov 21st 2019
153
           I added context/clarified in post #112 but whatever.
Nov 20th 2019
144
           Too late to edit but:
Nov 20th 2019
147
                Or you can just admit you were wrong when you said...
Nov 21st 2019
165
                     Or you could stop putting words in my mouth.
Nov 21st 2019
166
                          Calling me names doesn't make you any less wrong.
Nov 21st 2019
167
                               Putting words in my mouth doesn't make you any more right.
Nov 21st 2019
168
                                    I can think of some pretty dumb hills to die on
Nov 21st 2019
169
                                         That was cute.
Nov 21st 2019
170
not to pile on but i cant agree
Nov 21st 2019
154
      Yea you're 100% right IMO, and I agree.
Nov 21st 2019
158
did someone punch jim jordan in the eye?
Nov 20th 2019
134
democrats should cancel tonights hearing lol.
Nov 20th 2019
136
I'm assuming you mean debate, right?
Nov 20th 2019
140
      yeah i meant debate. these 2 a day hearings are overkill too tho.
Nov 20th 2019
141
           Yes this is why I thought Sondland wasn't great for dems today.
Nov 20th 2019
146
                If you wake up in the morning, and there's snow on the ground
Nov 21st 2019
150
                     Yea I get all that. Will Senate repugs turn ? I don't think so.
Nov 21st 2019
152
Finally caught up on the past few days activities....
Nov 21st 2019
148
Watching the hearings in real time probably does one a disservice.
Nov 21st 2019
155
IMO, if they can get Bolton...then it's a wrap
Nov 21st 2019
156
Pretty much.
Nov 21st 2019
157
What has happened is that the voice of the goober is now too big
Nov 21st 2019
159
watching these hearings in real time is the only way to watch
Nov 21st 2019
160
like so much on twitter it de-contextualizes the broader narrative
Nov 21st 2019
161
and really, read the transcripts as well! i'm all late on asap rocky
Nov 21st 2019
162
      who knows what is tricky
Nov 21st 2019
163
No. The alterantive isn't watch real time on twitter. The alternative ...
Nov 25th 2019
207
he could kill somebody on live tv and he'll still be president tomorrow.
Nov 21st 2019
164
fiona hill beat the repubs into submission.
Nov 21st 2019
171
Yea she was tremendous. Had them clowns leaving the room.
Nov 21st 2019
172
no notes either. turns out SHE is the star witness, not Taylor
Nov 21st 2019
173
Haha yea that was wild
Nov 21st 2019
174
will hurd has me worried
Nov 21st 2019
175
      Santa isn’t real and there’s no such thing as a good Republican.
Nov 21st 2019
176
           Damn right.
Nov 21st 2019
177
this is the im not a crook defense
Nov 21st 2019
178
Dr Hill came hard...
Nov 22nd 2019
179
What ?
Nov 22nd 2019
180
None of this matter. The senate won’t impeach him
Nov 22nd 2019
181
What ?
Nov 22nd 2019
182
      I’m just saying. This won’t end well for Democrats
Nov 22nd 2019
183
           wow
Nov 22nd 2019
184
                I have. Just like I finally gave up on redskins
Nov 22nd 2019
185
                     Damnnnnnnnnnnn
Nov 22nd 2019
186
Devin Nunes' weekend just went to shit
Nov 22nd 2019
187
Also, I finally placed who Nunes sounded like all week during his statem...
Nov 22nd 2019
188
"God damned quagmire of piss and bull shit!"
Nov 23rd 2019
189
Polls show impeachment probe strengthening Trump's position
Nov 24th 2019
190
Insanity
Nov 24th 2019
191
he's going to be impeached by the House
Nov 24th 2019
192
      Yea I'm with you - I think it was a huge mistake limiting the scope ...
Nov 25th 2019
201
      Absolutely:
Nov 25th 2019
202
      This is what I said. Nothing will happen and he will be reelected
Nov 25th 2019
208
Smart people: there are two kinds of voters
Nov 24th 2019
193
It’s insane that they limited things to Ukraine
Nov 24th 2019
196
where is this article from?
Nov 24th 2019
195
^^^^^
Nov 24th 2019
197
It's sourced from Emerson, Politico, Morning Consult etc..
Nov 25th 2019
200
Same question as #195
Nov 24th 2019
198
      Yeah I was scratching my head at The Straits Times
Nov 24th 2019
199
      Drumf is at 44% approval rating on Rasmussen right today
Nov 25th 2019
      Drumf is at 44% approval rating on Rasmussen right today
Nov 25th 2019
209
      RE: Same question as #195
Nov 25th 2019
203
           The Hill employs John Solomon
Nov 25th 2019
204
                sees it
Nov 25th 2019
205
                Oh ok - so you're not disputing the actual polling data
Nov 25th 2019
206
                     oh lookie Emerson says Trump has 34.5% of black voters
Nov 25th 2019
210
                          I'm trying to track back what's happened here
Nov 26th 2019
211
                          not sure what part you find weird
Nov 26th 2019
212
                          There was no Trup-and-the-black-vote poll
Nov 26th 2019
213
                               Meh
Nov 26th 2019
218
                                    That article also links to polls that don't say that
Nov 26th 2019
219
                                         This is not that hard
Nov 27th 2019
221
                          It's par for the course, unfortunately.
Nov 26th 2019
214
                               I don't think Greenwald is conservative
Nov 26th 2019
216
                                    oh no doubt
Nov 26th 2019
217
                                    fox news loves greenwald. the hill loves ball.
Dec 05th 2019
235
                                         Yeeerrrrrr
Dec 05th 2019
240
                                         the inability to throw a flag and call out corruption (even if it's Dems...
Dec 05th 2019
243
                          LMAO!!!!!!!!
Nov 26th 2019
215
nothing is true (but there are tapes anyhow)
Nov 24th 2019
194
"Three Amigos"
Dec 03rd 2019
226
is the aid being conditioned necessary to charge bribery?
Nov 27th 2019
220
House Panel Report
Dec 03rd 2019
222
Thoughts? https://gfycat.com/tenderbriskarcticseal-kenan-thompson
Dec 03rd 2019
223
      youre probably not wrong
Dec 03rd 2019
224
      If you are wrong you will look like landslide guy from here
Dec 03rd 2019
225
           But in the best possible way.
Dec 03rd 2019
227
           I wish it wasn't so, but he's definitely right about this.
Dec 04th 2019
230
           Done
Dec 05th 2019
241
           Just to be clear, I'm not saying anything abt him being impeached or not
Dec 04th 2019
231
                It's clear you are playing it safe on him being impeached.
Dec 05th 2019
242
we're all mad
Dec 04th 2019
228
that fucking clown
Dec 04th 2019
229
another barr/trump dud investigation result.
Dec 04th 2019
232
arent they saying that barr isnt going to "accept" the result?
Dec 05th 2019
233
yeah dude is treating that shit like climate change.
Dec 05th 2019
234
Saw this last nite. Amazing.
Dec 05th 2019
236
whoa. did anyone know a pres can be retried by a new senate?? (swipe)
Dec 05th 2019
237
does it require the same amount of votes?
Dec 05th 2019
238
Nah it's kinda the same tho, in the current climate.
Dec 05th 2019
239
haven't watched much but the fake outrage over Barron Trump was hilariou...
Dec 05th 2019
244
They're just so predictable.
Dec 05th 2019
245
has red baron pizza weighed in?
Dec 05th 2019
246
      how dare you type that name to make your little joke
Dec 05th 2019
247
Carly Fiorina: vital Trump be impeached..but I'll prob vote for him anyw...
Dec 16th 2019
248
Trump on Fiorina - look at that face, would anyone vote for that?
Dec 16th 2019
249
lol
Dec 16th 2019
250
The fuck is the point then
Dec 16th 2019
251
Mass pro-impeachment demonstrations tomorrow
Dec 16th 2019
252
Joe Scarborough talking about it......
Dec 17th 2019
253
this nigga really threw down a morning joe clip like the big joker.
Dec 18th 2019
254
btw these same *exact* folks said trump *wanted* to be impeached
Dec 18th 2019
255
      Hmm.. not sure if Trumps post is genuine or not
Dec 18th 2019
257
LOL
Dec 18th 2019
256
well if Joe said it.. lol
Dec 18th 2019
258
lol
Dec 18th 2019
259
Misses the big picture = their interpretation of the 2nd amendment
Dec 18th 2019
261
so today is another full day of "debates"
Dec 18th 2019
260
Trump fans defend Watergate scandal when Kimmel swaps Nixon's name for T...
Dec 18th 2019
262
i had this shit on in the background. turned it off. it's like watching ...
Dec 18th 2019
263
not just incessant lying but the repeated talking point
Dec 18th 2019
264
It's like on a crime show when the killer's lawyer is talking
Dec 18th 2019
265
yeah, i have to mute the russians
Dec 18th 2019
266
Tulsi: Present
Dec 18th 2019
267
Captain Save 'em in 3.....2......
Dec 18th 2019
268
LOL
Dec 18th 2019
272
      well whatever bullshit he chooses to shovel
Dec 18th 2019
277
she's such a waste of space
Dec 18th 2019
270
Damnnnn how will they defend this one
Dec 18th 2019
271
Kamala told y’all Tulsi ain’t shit
Dec 18th 2019
273
even bernieworld is tired of tulsis shit.
Dec 18th 2019
274
man, she is the definition of an 'alt-centrist'
Dec 19th 2019
299
lol
Dec 19th 2019
300
while i was watching the vote i was mad at this present vote
Dec 19th 2019
313
Vex: Absent
Dec 19th 2019
335
      https://youtu.be/he_XA7pNQHA?t=47
Dec 21st 2019
349
           Vex laying low like Tulsi
Dec 22nd 2019
350
                Weird. Had no problem going on Joe Rogan w/ Jocko fucking Wilink
Dec 22nd 2019
351
Hey Vex, looks like Tulsi voted 'present.'
Dec 18th 2019
269
this tweet aged well:
Dec 18th 2019
275
Poetic justice.
Dec 18th 2019
276
Y'all talk that shit about Nancy, but she is shrewd as hell
Dec 19th 2019
278
this impeachment vote was so bad for democrats that...
Dec 19th 2019
279
#demsindisarray
Dec 19th 2019
280
But Meadows is in a completely safe seat, though, right?
Dec 19th 2019
281
RE: Trump's next chief of staff
Dec 19th 2019
282
yes, redistricting
Dec 19th 2019
291
      We moved here right before that shit
Dec 19th 2019
295
Can't win for gerrymandering.
Dec 19th 2019
284
correct me if i'm wrong but
Dec 19th 2019
283
No. But.
Dec 19th 2019
285
this thing is going to turn into a civil war soon
Dec 19th 2019
286
      Do I really need to elaborate ?
Dec 19th 2019
287
      gotta give the kids their candy or they will turn up their tantrum
Dec 19th 2019
290
      The election.
Dec 19th 2019
293
           basically
Dec 19th 2019
296
           do you think republican voters were ever going to change?
Dec 19th 2019
297
                impeachment hasnt had a negative effect on a single democrat in 2019
Dec 19th 2019
303
           i dont see impeachment hurting democrats at all.
Dec 19th 2019
298
           RE: i dont see impeachment hurting democrats at all.
Dec 19th 2019
314
           some Dem voters are too spooked, man
Dec 19th 2019
334
           the ppl who stayed home will vote this time
Dec 19th 2019
305
           This sounds remarkably familiar.
Dec 19th 2019
309
                we were excited.....at first
Dec 19th 2019
317
                     That's a very detailed model you've built.
Dec 19th 2019
319
           ... and the election is compromised by the very thing they're impeaching...
Dec 19th 2019
307
                Yeah, that's part of why I'm saying they still have to do it.
Dec 19th 2019
311
                     Oh sorry - I missed where you said "by now I agree ..." in your first .....
Dec 19th 2019
312
                          No worries. I have been all over the place on this.
Dec 19th 2019
315
                               lol sadly I'm 100000000000% with you.
Dec 19th 2019
320
      hi tulsi
Dec 19th 2019
288
      The middle ?
Dec 19th 2019
292
      i don't think a civil war will happen
Dec 19th 2019
301
           I do hope that certain congressional figures have upped their security.
Dec 19th 2019
316
                absolutely
Dec 21st 2019
348
that's the whole point
Dec 19th 2019
289
      >
Dec 19th 2019
294
      Lulz
Dec 19th 2019
308
barring a straight up GOP coup, Pence is not going to be 46
Dec 19th 2019
302
If Pelosi plays this right, could send trump and mitch into a tailspin
Dec 19th 2019
304
one of the advantages of having trump as an opponent
Dec 19th 2019
306
      Beat me to it.
Dec 19th 2019
310
      i disagree on this
Dec 19th 2019
318
is there a bad batch of Denture Cream on the market?
Dec 19th 2019
321
Don't forget Biden.
Dec 19th 2019
322
300+ replies and not one DPG/Dogg Pound reference
Dec 19th 2019
323
*sigh* I had this vision of the post going in 2 different directions sim...
Dec 19th 2019
325
Someone explained the impeachment on twitter
Dec 19th 2019
324
Roy Wood Jr- Ex jedi
Dec 20th 2019
340
"Senate is currently in the process of confirming 12 MORE judges.
Dec 19th 2019
326
thats why we need to vote blue
Dec 19th 2019
327
Democrat Plantation.
Dec 19th 2019
328
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyHuG1ks04A
Dec 19th 2019
329
      the weekly age old account popping up to spout bullshit response
Dec 19th 2019
332
Dems playing checkers, GOP playing chess.
Dec 19th 2019
330
shit dumb niggas say to sound smart
Dec 19th 2019
331
      This “impeachment” is joke, those judges are real and will be...
Dec 19th 2019
336
           What's your fucking point?
Dec 20th 2019
337
                These are the people who refused to march or run with Harriet
Dec 20th 2019
339
                     People like you all are the reason Trump is in office and appointing...
Dec 20th 2019
345
You spelled McConnell wrong
Dec 19th 2019
333
You make it sound like Trump is the President.
Dec 20th 2019
338
trump doesnt believe that he was impeached lol.
Dec 20th 2019
341
I don't feel like we broke up
Dec 20th 2019
343
Part of me still wonders how Drumf has made Senate Republicans...
Dec 20th 2019
342
i assume that was their original plan
Dec 20th 2019
344
The key players are actively complicit
Dec 20th 2019
346
money.
Dec 20th 2019
347
bc they trump's base was their base
Dec 23rd 2019
352
Okay Tulsi
Dec 29th 2019
353
good thing no one here supports her
Dec 29th 2019
354
i wonder why she decided to blow up her entire political career in 2019.
Dec 29th 2019
355
      you say blow-up, breitbart says glow-up
Dec 29th 2019
356
      Hannity & Gabbard -- coming spring 2020 on Fox!
Dec 29th 2019
357
           Ivanka/Gabbard 2024
Dec 30th 2019
358
                Putin/Gabbard 2028!
Dec 30th 2019
361
                     Vex = Present
Dec 30th 2019
362
                          nothing to say about the $738 billion Trump military budget?
Dec 30th 2019
363
                               you're exactly what I thought you were
Dec 30th 2019
364
                               Hope Biden/Lieberman 2020 works out for you.
Dec 30th 2019
365
                               Sources, please
Jan 04th 2020
366
loving the ongoing stream of revelations
Dec 30th 2019
359
the media is more enraged by biden ignoring a hypothetical subpoena
Dec 30th 2019
360
Bolton says he'd testify at Senate trial.
Jan 06th 2020
367
admiralakbartrap(1).gif
Jan 06th 2020
368
im wondering if this iran move is what pushed him
Jan 06th 2020
369
salty about lto being left out of the Iran war fun
Jan 06th 2020
370
The new evidence is fucking *stunning*.
Jan 15th 2020
371
i mean, i only saw Lev Parnas handwritten note on Ritz Carlton paper.
Jan 15th 2020
372
I literally gasped when I saw that. Parnas pulled a Belichick.
Jan 15th 2020
374
.
Jan 15th 2020
375
i honestly think they were gonna have her killed.
Jan 15th 2020
373
I do too. It's fucking jaw dropping stuff.
Jan 15th 2020
376
I'm a bit confused
Jan 15th 2020
377
      im guessing someone was pushing back
Jan 15th 2020
379
      It's a shame Mitch McConnell
Jan 15th 2020
380
      because Trump thinks he’s a mafia boss
Jan 15th 2020
386
broski
Jan 15th 2020
378
yep, it's bonkers
Jan 15th 2020
381
i don't see what the big deal is
Jan 15th 2020
382
Why new's outlets weren't leading with that part of the story is bafflin...
Jan 15th 2020
383
The media always buries the lede.
Jan 15th 2020
384
this.
Jan 15th 2020
385
Yeah, that's a hit.
Jan 16th 2020
390
how deadly are the bombs Parnas dropping?
Jan 15th 2020
387
Not deadly in any way (thought they should be)
Jan 15th 2020
388
can he be called as a witness during the trial?
Jan 16th 2020
393
      I believe he could be, but repugs are trying to block *all* witnesses .....
Jan 16th 2020
394
      and NOTHING can be done about that?
Jan 16th 2020
395
           Elect more Democrats.
Jan 16th 2020
397
           Unfortunately no. It's a horribly imperfect system.
Jan 16th 2020
399
                i hear you...
Jan 16th 2020
401
                     Yea for sure. Good idea.
Jan 16th 2020
402
      He could, but he probably won't.
Jan 16th 2020
396
           god damn
Jan 16th 2020
398
                Exactly.
Jan 16th 2020
400
Maddow part 1 tonight, Anderson Cooper tomorrow....
Jan 15th 2020
389
Not deadly at all but only because we live in a dystopian nightmare.
Jan 16th 2020
392
we’ll see
Jan 16th 2020
403
      I'm loving his threat of dropping a new pic/video everyday ...
Jan 16th 2020
404
Trump administration broke law in withholding Ukraine aid
Jan 16th 2020
391
Trump to be represented at trial by friend of Jeffrey Epstein
Jan 17th 2020
405
dems should specifically refer to them as epsteins lawyers.
Jan 17th 2020
406
Damn, somehow I missed that Starr was a part of that, too.
Jan 17th 2020
410
      Trump is the Tarantino of rape enablers who've hit a career slump
Jan 17th 2020
412
      every now and then theyll have starr on legit news shows
Jan 17th 2020
413
btw he picked his team straight off fox news.
Jan 17th 2020
411
what purpose does the Managers serve?
Jan 17th 2020
407
They'll be the ones arguing the case at the trial.
Jan 17th 2020
408
      thank you...
Jan 17th 2020
409

MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
18741 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 10:39 AM

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1. "My speculation is that there’s gonna be a whole bunch of speculation o..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Implications in here and in the media and this will all be insufferable.

If Eric B was president none of this would be happening.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 10:42 AM

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2. "Yea I hope dems are better prepared for that inevitability."
In response to Reply # 1


          

Don't let the Fascists turn this into a total spectacle and let the media run with the "two teams" narrative. Take control early and don't allow any room for muddying the waters.

I liked how dems led into the hearings by starting to call this "extortion and bribery" and nixing the "quid pro quo" talk.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
18741 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 10:44 AM

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3. "I hope they know the ledge "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 10:50 AM

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4. "Well played."
In response to Reply # 3


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
18741 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 10:59 AM

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6. "I ain’t no joke"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
39900 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 04:34 PM

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19. "Eric B just got locked up"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

:(

Over a warrant from like 03 or some shit

Craziest part was I didn't even know he was acting now

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
18741 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 04:42 PM

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20. " The only island he was on was the Strong one. "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

And if he did his bid it would’ve been a long one.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Nov-13-19 08:51 PM

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21. "Ha I legit came here to post this."
In response to Reply # 19


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
18741 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 09:53 PM

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22. "Yeah, but I set em straight"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44622 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 10:59 AM

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5. "I am a fan of the pivot from quid pro quo to extortion/bribery"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Dems are never good at keeping things simple.

Trump knows he got a boost from the FBI announcing an investigation into hillary clinton before the election. He looked to recreate that by bribing Ukraine into announcing a fabricated investigation into his likely opponent Biden.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
11687 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 11:15 AM

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7. "hopefully the public takes this more serious than just a poem"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
15779 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 11:42 AM

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8. "I don't see any Trump supporter caring about Ukraine. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

which they won't care what Russian does to them.

This really won't make a difference. I think only him getting a blow job in the WH would get him impeached.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 11:47 AM

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9. "His base supporters aren't going anywhere no matter what."
In response to Reply # 8
Wed Nov-13-19 11:52 AM by Brew

          

These hearings are for the uninformed voters who may "support" him but are flimsy in their support and can be swayed. Believe it or not they are out there. Your typical PA/MI/etc. "conservative" voter who has a woman problem and voted for Trump based primarily on hatred for Hillary rather than any kind of actual ideological synergy w/Individual 1; the type of voter who gives more weight to their hatred for like, "cancel culture" and bullshit like that than they do to actual positions they portend to believe in.

There are more of these people than we probably think just based on how loud the Individual 1-supportin' minority is, and that's who these hearings are for. And if *those* folks hear enough of this and are as disgusted by his kuruption and mob mentality as they should be, (assuming dems do their jobs) the shift in public opinion could force the Senate fascists' hands.

I'm not even remotely convinced that any of the above will happen, but there's a sliver of hope is all I'm saying.


>which they won't care what Russian does to them.
>
>This really won't make a difference. I think only him getting
>a blow job in the WH would get him impeached.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
64039 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 01:36 PM

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12. "Yup, his base is loyal"
In response to Reply # 9


          

but I’ve definitely seen a few people in forums who were rooting for him are slowly disappearing. Maybe they just moved on but I would hope they saw the light and finally had enough embarrassment.

shut up already, damn

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 01:53 PM

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13. "Exactly - likewise."
In response to Reply # 12


          

The momentum I felt for 3 years running has slowed to a halt amongst folks who were of the "I mean I don't *love* the guy, but .... (insert some meaningless bullshit about the economy, or something)" ilk, since this whistleblower came forward.

So yea. Like I said I'm not *confident* that anything will come of this, primarily because I assume dems will find a way to fuck it up - but there's a sliver of hope there for sure.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
14513 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 03:16 PM

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16. "I think a lot of folks are just exhausted by him and everything..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

related to him.

Those people who begrudgingly voted for him, or just voted for him because he's not Clinton might see these events as just another layer of craziness in this president. And they may be tired of it.
They don't care about corruption, Ukraine, quid pro quo, etc. They just want this madness to be over with.



_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14589 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 01:16 PM

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10. "I'm not hearing any new info...the R defense should be self evident"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The media has beat this thing into the ground already

'Polls' claim that favorable impeachment numbers are at 50%

I don't think there will be any 'aha' moment or new information offered that moves that needle in the favorable direction

Matter of fact...my guess is the Rs murky the waters enough that those numbers drop

The Rs should focus on the legitimacy of investigating Bursima

Basically turn this hearing into days long smears on the Bidens and their corruption

IMO, what everyone got wrong here...is not drilling down on the Biden's corruption

It's indefensible IMO...and the Ds just gave the Rs a platform to slam dunk their defense

THIS WILL NOT END WELL

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 02:01 PM

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14. "What."
In response to Reply # 10


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
34762 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 03:29 PM

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17. "^this"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5714 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 02:27 PM

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15. "LOL at this clown shit"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
11687 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 03:32 PM

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18. "ive been catching most of it"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

it started well enough but the dems did leave an opening for the cons to come in and shift the focus. thats all they have, "look at this instead!" a bunch of noise about things that dont matter but for the public it may just work. confuse the general public enough and they might just give up on caring.

dems have counter punched some but not very effectively.

if facts mattered that primary defense the cons have is that these two witnesses dont have first hand knowledge on some of this stuff. dems did hit back with well trump is welcome to come in.

i dont know what the feedback has been so far but i dont think its going as well as it should be.

  

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handle
Charter member
16222 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 01:05 AM

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23. "^^Gassed up"
In response to Reply # 10


          

How's the kool-aid in hell?

------------
My prayers have been answered!

Gone
My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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fontgangsta
Member since Sep 04th 2005
5115 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 09:38 AM

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25. "whats it like to believe so hard in conspiracy theories?"
In response to Reply # 10
Thu Nov-14-19 09:38 AM by fontgangsta

  

          

this shit fascinates me. like, really, whats your life like player? inquiring minds want to know
you probly haven't read an actual newspaper article in, how long? 5 years? more?
spill the deets!! lets expose this shit.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5714 posts
Mon Nov-18-19 08:51 PM

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63. "you were saying"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5714 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 09:10 AM

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79. "no, really....you were saying?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14589 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 09:41 AM

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80. "Pompeo, Mulvaney and Bolton are the money testimonies"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

How are they avoiding subpoenas?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5714 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 11:28 AM

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92. "have you ever read your sig?"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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makaveli
Charter member
15153 posts
Wed Nov-13-19 01:25 PM

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11. "side news from the Stone trial if you didn't see it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Gates' testimony confirmed that Trump lied in his written answers to Mueller about never discussing WikiLeaks with Stone. They all knew before the emails came out.


https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/12/roger-stone-trial-donald-trump-wikileaks-070368

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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fontgangsta
Member since Sep 04th 2005
5115 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 09:08 AM

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24. "Sondland is gonna have to answer for that call next week"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and hes either gonna have to purger himself, plead the 5th, or drop what will be the bombshell of this whole process right on trump

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 09:47 AM

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26. "Yea wild."
In response to Reply # 24


          

>RE: Sondland is gonna have to answer for that call next week
>and hes either gonna have to purger himself, plead the 5th,
>or drop what will be the bombshell of this whole process right
>on trump

Be a hero Sondland. Save the empire.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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fontgangsta
Member since Sep 04th 2005
5115 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 10:00 AM

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27. "maybe im just dreaming"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

but i feel like he might
based on the fact that he was reeeaaall quick to enter that "addendum" to his testimony when it was contradicted.
And sondland is different from trump in that he seems to be a "normal rich person" and not a narcissistic sociopath. Like, hes just a hospitality billionaire who no one had ever heard of before all this, and i bet he liked it that way. He'd probly be happy to be like "yo, i got in over my head here, im not a fucking diplomat, this is what happened"
he def aint gonna lie for trump under oath. that dude has way too much money and enough sense to know that he wants to be free and enjoy it.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 10:15 AM

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28. "God I hope you're right. But so many others semi-similar to him ..."
In response to Reply # 27


          

... have let me down the past 3+ years, I'm not counting on it.


>but i feel like he might
>based on the fact that he was reeeaaall quick to enter that
>"addendum" to his testimony when it was contradicted.
>And sondland is different from trump in that he seems to be a
>"normal rich person" and not a narcissistic sociopath. Like,
>hes just a hospitality billionaire who no one had ever heard
>of before all this, and i bet he liked it that way. He'd
>probly be happy to be like "yo, i got in over my head here, im
>not a fucking diplomat, this is what happened"
>he def aint gonna lie for trump under oath. that dude has way
>too much money and enough sense to know that he wants to be
>free and enjoy it.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12087 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 10:29 AM

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29. "Here's not looking to be a hero."
In response to Reply # 27


          

He's looking to stay out of prison.

But that might be enough, now that it's abundantly clear that Mr Trump doesn't give a fuck about the people who go down to protect him. There was a time when people thought he'd pardon them, but nobody expects that anymore.

Sondland wasn't trying to be a Trumper. He was trying to get Jeb Bush elected. He's just a fucking rich dude who wanted a swanky job. And he was incompetent enough to let Trump manipulate him. Now he might want off this rollercoaster.

It's too easy to expect big dramatic moments, though. Our media has trained us for it. So we might all be overreacting.

At this point, I think it's probably more likely that he just pulls out of the agreement to testify, says some dumb shit about executive privilege, and it rolls on from there.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
8172 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 11:35 AM

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30. "that other staff member is testifying privately next week."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

the timing on the revelation really boxes sondland in. he can lie or plead the 5th or claim no recollection. but then someone is coming right behind him testifying under oath about it.

this all is working out beautifully really. its amazing how puzzle pieces start falling together when you have a witness list that actually wants to cooperate.

------

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
11687 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 11:38 AM

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31. "isnt it tomorrow?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

not sure how theyre doing both the public hearing (of Yovanovitch) and having his private testimony but i think having him testify privately before sondlands public hearing is a good move.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-hearings-david-holmes-bill-taylor-staffer-who-overheard-trump-ask-about-investigations-set-to-appear/


  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
8172 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 12:18 PM

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33. "youre right. theres a 2nd person now too."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

https://twitter.com/jpaceDC/status/1195025340386729984
——————
MORE: The second US official who overheard the Trump-Sondland call was Suriya Jayanti, a foreign service officer based in Kyiv

https://t.co/WqOtZRFGzh
——————

------

  

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Melanism
Charter member
20378 posts
Thu Nov-14-19 11:50 AM

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32. "Sondland is going to make or break this"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

He connects directly to Trump so if he says it happened, the GOP's best argument dies.

HOWEVER.

He has already changed his testimony once and is now implicated again with something he didn't mention in his original testimony or amendment so now he can be painted as a liar.

Unless the courts allow Bolton to testify and he brings the real goods, I don't see this going anywhere beyond the obvious impeachment in the House/acquittal in the Senate along party lines

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Thu Nov-14-19 06:49 PM

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34. "Parnas claims he discussed Ukraine with Trump"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Nov-14-19 06:51 PM by mista k5

  

          

convinced him to fire ambassador
https://www.salon.com/2019/11/14/flipped-giuliani-associate-claims-he-discussed-ukraine-with-trump-convinced-him-to-fire-ambassador/

i wish i had faith that this would matter.

edit: swipe


Lev Parnas, who was involved in Rudy Giuliani’s campaign to dig up dirt on the president’s political rivals in Ukraine, told associates that he discussed Ukraine with Donald Trump as early as April 2018, The Washington Post reports.

Parnas, who was indicted on campaign finance charges after he allegedly funneled foreign money into U.S. campaigns, including a $325,000 contribution to a pro-Trump super PAC, told associates he spoke with Trump for about 90 minutes at an event for big donors to the Trump PAC. Parnas and business partner Igor Fruman, who was also indicted, snagged an invite to the event after their alleged illicit donation. Both men have pleaded not guilty.

After the dinner, Parnas told associates that he and Fruman told Trump they thought then-ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch was unfriendly to his interests. Trump reacted so strongly to what they told him that Trump demanded that Yovanovitch “should be fired,” according to the report.

After the dinner, Parnas posted multiple photos of the intimate event on social media, including one in which he stood alongside Trump.

“Thank you President Trump !!! Incredible dinner and even better conversation,” he wrote, erroneously tagging the location as the White House.

After the exchange with Trump, Parnas and Fruman repeatedly complained that they were “shellshocked” that Yovanovitch remained in her post for months after Trump said he wanted to fire her, an associate told The Post.

Giuliani echoed a similar complaint about how long it took to remove Yovanovitch in an interview with The Post.

“The president fired her three times and thought she was gone,” he said. “The president thought she was gone long before she was actually fired.”

After Yovanovitch was removed from her post, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky told Trump on their infamous July 25 call that “it was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador, because I agree with you 100 percent.”

Numerous State Department officials have said that Yovanovitch was a model diplomat. Yovanovitch testified to Congress that she was ousted after what she described as a smear campaign by Giuliani, which he allegedly launched because he believed she was interfering with his efforts in Ukraine. Yovanovitch will testify publicly before the House Intelligence Committee on Friday.

Parnas’ is the first individual to claim that he discussed Ukraine directly with Trump and suggests that the Giuliani effort in Ukraine goes back much further than the administration has suggested. The account also contradicts Trump’s claim that he did not know either Parnas or Fruman.

“Now it’s possible I have a picture with them, because I have a picture with everybody,” Trump told reporters after their arrest last month. “I don’t know what they do, but I don’t know. Maybe they were clients of Rudy.”

Trump used a similar line of defense when he claimed to “hardly know” Gordon Sondland, who donated $1 million to Trump’s inauguration before the president appointed him as his ambassador to the European Union, after Sondland testified that Trump had tried to pressure Ukraine to investigate his political opponents. Trump also had numerous private discussions with Sondland about the Giuliani effort in Ukraine, according to both Sondland and other witness testimony.

Parnas, who appeared in photos with Trump at numerous events, was so upset that Trump claimed to not know him that he fired his attorney, former Trump lawyer John Dowd, and agreed to comply with the House impeachment inquiry, his new lawyer told The New York Times.

“Mr. Parnas was very upset by President Trump’s plainly false statement that he did not know him,” attorney Joseph Bondy told the outlet.

A former senior administration official told The Post that Trump received regular updates from Giuliani about Parnas’ and Fruman’s efforts in Ukraine.

“It’s just not true that he had no idea who these guys were. He knew Lev particularly,” the official said.

Giuliani also contradicted his own client’s statement to insist that he was not the one that introduced them to the president, telling The Post that the pair had already met Trump when Giuliani first met them in the summer of 2018.

Parnas and Fruman met with then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in February, Edward MacMahon Jr., another attorney for Parnas, told The Post. The pair allegedly proposed a quid pro quo in which Ukraine would launch a Biden probe and an investigation into a nonexistent Democratic server in exchange for a state visit.

Parnas and Fruman later met with an aide to Zelensky, Poroshenko’s successor, in May to deliver a threat on behalf of Giuliani, Bondy told The New York Times.

According to Parnas, he told the Zelensky aide that the new president had to announce an investigation into the Bidens in exchange for the Trump administration releasing military aid allocated by Congress. Parnas also said that Vice President Mike Pence would not attend Zelensky’s inauguration if the investigations were not announced, Bondy said. Giuliani and Fruman denied Parnas’ account. Pence ultimately did not attend the event. The administration released the aid after pressure from Republican lawmakers following media reports that the aid had been mysterious frozen.

After Trump again pressed Zelensky on the investigations on their July 25 call, Trump phoned Sondland to ask about the status of “the investigations” the following day, acting Ukraine ambassador Bill Taylor testified on Wednesday.

Parnas’ attorneys said he would be willing to testify about his account to House investigators.

“There isn’t anything that Parnas did in the Ukraine relative to the Bidens or the 2016 election,” MacMahon told The Post, “that he wasn’t asked to do by Giuliani, who was acting on the direction of the president.”

  

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handle
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35. " What You’d Have to Believe to Let Donald Trump Off the Hook"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Article by DAHLIA LITHWICK
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/11/two-theories-impeachment-hearings-republicans-democrats.html?via=taps_top

Swipe:
The Devin Nunes theory of the case would be extravagantly complex: This whodunit seems to involve House Democrats colluding with a deep state whistleblower and his attorney, who had been plotting a “coup” against the president since the weeks following his election, and who was willing to conspire with Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee to sideline the inspector general and hide the whistleblower from public view. Simultaneously, Democrats have been working assiduously with Russia toward the “funding and spreading” of the Steele dossier while “cooperating in Ukrainian election meddling” all while Hunter Biden used his preelection influence to have an impact on foreign policy under Predsident Barack Obama, and as the “politicized bureaucracy” now conspires to deliberately undermine “the president who they are supposed to be serving,” in the form of corrupt ambassadors. It’s elementary, my dear Watson: This, per Nunes, is a sprawling “hoax” engineered by disparate “elements of the FBI, the Department of Justice, and now the State Department” along with the “corrupt media” to work hand and glove to something, something “nude pictures.” The theory of the case is that all of these entities conspired for years, together, to craft a hoax and sham “Star Chamber” in order to subvert the will of the American electorate. All that’s missing, truly, is Colonel Mustard with a lead pipe in the conservatory.

The most intriguing moments of Wednesday’s hearings happened when Taylor and Kent, lifelong sane people and career diplomats, were questioned about the Republican theory of the case and, finding themselves utterly confounded, simply blinked into the klieg lights. Questioned about CrowdStrike and Donald Trump’s moon-bat theory that the firm was involved in hiding the Democratic National Committee server in Ukraine and passing the blame to Russia, George Kent appeared baffled: “To be honest, I had not heard of CrowdStrike until I read this transcript on Sept. 25,” Kent clarified. When he was asked if there was any “factual basis” to support the claim of Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election, Kent replied, “To my knowledge, there is no factual basis, no.”


There is, of course, a second theory of the case. It’s that Donald Trump got an absurd idea in his head about Ukraine working to hurt him in the 2016 election, and another dumb idea in his head about how to smear his likely 2020 electoral opponent, and so he created a back channel consisting of “three amigos” to effectuate a shadow foreign policy that involved withholding appropriated aid to Ukraine until its leader did a CNN interview claiming to be investigating those things. That’s it. There’s no elaborate web of shady malefactors who hate America and engaged in a yearslong, multiagency, deep state takedown of the president. It’s just a bunch of largely incompetent international affairs novices who thought themselves fractionally more adept than they really were, and the host of enablers and bag men who tried to cover it all up after the fact.

------------
My prayers have been answered!

Gone
My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Nov-15-19 11:10 AM

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36. "brilliant move by schiff to bring the tweet up during the hearing."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

right after she testified to being intimidated by the president.

it was a showstopper and really drove home whats going on.

even on fox news they called it a crime and an additional article of impeachment.

that will dominate the coverage of todays hearing.

------

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Fri Nov-15-19 11:15 AM

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37. "talk about breaking the fourth wall. And how tepid was Mueller in"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

retrospect?

I guess lifelong neutral bureaucrats can take vocal stand for principles

Honestly, as much as I lionized Mueller and overstated what he could accomplish, I think it will be clearer that he did far too little in bringing attention to chronic impeachable / criminal behavior

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Nov-15-19 11:21 AM

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38. "i think mueller physically/mentally wasnt there."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

i think him being somewhat combative about testifying in front of congress was his way of trying to discourage them from bringing him out in public and showing how diminished his mental capacity was.

------

  

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Walleye
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Fri Nov-15-19 11:22 AM

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39. "Almost like impeachment pressure made Trump screw up?"
In response to Reply # 36


          

Who'd have imagined?

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Fri Nov-15-19 11:27 AM

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40. "whats happened?"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

i was able to catch her opening statement and like 20 minutes of questioning from the majority. stopped watching about an hour and half ago. did the majority finish their 45 minutes?

  

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sectachrome86
Member since Dec 22nd 2007
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Fri Nov-15-19 11:33 AM

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41. "Trump attacked a witness on Twitter as she was testifying"
In response to Reply # 40


          

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/impeachment-hearing-11-15-19/h_aca1f53084b8db4b3d81f5c1aac48164

Once again, he could have just...not done that. Fucking dolt.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
18741 posts
Fri Nov-15-19 11:35 AM

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42. "They recessed for House votes. "
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2246 posts
Fri Nov-15-19 08:25 PM

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49. "https://twitter.com/RexHuppke/status/1195379470573690881"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

Gym Jordan: "The president's just wrasslin' with some emotions right now. How 'bout you all hit the showers and forget any of this ever happened, OK?"

https://twitter.com/RexHuppke/status/1195379470573690881

  

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naame
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Fri Nov-15-19 11:44 AM

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43. "Yavonovich opening statement was soul crushing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Fri Nov-15-19 12:03 PM

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45. "Reading it now and it's very powerful"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

Foreign Service professionals being 'denigrated' and the State Department being 'hollowed out' being key points that are not talked about enough

  

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naame
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46. "My friends and family that work for the feds are constantly disgusted by..."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

Their lies
Their ignorance
Their indifference
Their deceptions
Their personal failings
Like republicans have become the true bottom feeders. Taken from the end of the bar, cleaned up and given suits and 150k jobs

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33690 posts
Fri Nov-15-19 11:54 AM

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44. "Roger Stone guilty on all 7 counts. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

another prisoner

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
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Fri Nov-15-19 08:22 PM

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48. "https://twitter.com/JimmyDonofrio/status/1195388046608412672"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

https://twitter.com/JimmyDonofrio/status/1195388046608412672

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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54. "LOLLLLL"
In response to Reply # 48


          

>https://twitter.com/JimmyDonofrio/status/1195388046608412672

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Fri Nov-15-19 12:50 PM

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47. "I wouldn’t want Steve Castor on my legal team"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Nov-15-19 09:59 PM

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50. "these early poll numbers are pretty brutal."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/1195495863247880194
------
Early impact of impeachment inquiry:

68% of Americans watched, heard, or read about the impeachment hearings.

Of those, 41% became more supportive of impeachment. Only 25% less supportive.

Source: Reuters/Ipsos poll
------

we are approaching an almost 2:1 ratio becoming more supportive of impeachment among those who have some degree of exposure to impeachment news.

this is before the yovanovitch testimony has fully sunken in.

its only gonna get worse for trump from here. not better.

when these house hearings are all said and done...we might be looking at damn near a 60-40 pro-anti impeachment split.

------

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5714 posts
Fri Nov-15-19 10:05 PM

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51. ""You can tell the Kardashians you tried""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

What a time we live in fam.

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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52. "its amazing what dems can do when they actually focus on messaging."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

once dems decided to fan out to the news shows and all repeat the same talking points mentioning 'bribery/extortion' instead of 'quid pro quo'...quid pro quo virtually disappeared from the discussion overnight and now most people have already moved on to affirming that 'attempted bribery' (regardless of whether anything was actually delivered) is really just bribery. it doesnt need to be successfully executed to meet the legal statute.

republicans have stopped parroting the 'no quid pro quo' defense.

the table has been re-set just like that. all it takes is some co-ordination and teamwork.

------

  

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naame
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53. "It's not like they're dealing with a sophisticated criminal "
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

He does everything out in the open and his rhetoric is easily refuted.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Nov-18-19 10:26 AM

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55. "so far its going well"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

i thought the first day was shaky as the republicans were extra loud and wrong. that usually works well for them. pretty much all the coverage i saw of it was mostly ignoring the wild conspiracy theories or pointing out that there wild conspiracy theories.

masha knocked it out the park. before it started i was questioning why she was being interviewed in public. once i heard her start talking about it i realized it could be a good move and it was definitely a good day for truth.

i wont get too hopeful but so far so good.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Nov-18-19 11:54 AM

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56. "*70%* of americans believe trump did something wrong."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/1196434583316828160
--------
ABC/Ipsos poll:

70% of Americans believe Trump did something wrong

57% want him impeached

51% want him impeached *and* removed from office

21% made that decision after last weeks hearings

Those are some terrible numbers for Trump after just one week of public hearings.
--------

im old enough to remember when the dc cocktail class was saying impeachment was risky for *dems*.

as the recent elections in ky/la/etc have shown...impeachment obviously isnt the boon to republicans that folks thought it would be. and that was in red states where impeachment is unpopular and trump is popular. it def aint harming dems in swing states.

things are only gonna get worse for trump from here.

i honestly wouldnt be surprised if pelosi wanted to drag impeachment hearings into next year. clearly people wouldnt be buying any shit the repubs start shoveling ('politically motivated during an election year'., etc).

its gonna be funny when barr/trump drop the findings of their fbi/russia investigation and its a complete dud that fails to move the needle like they hoped.

------

  

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soulfunk
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Mon Nov-18-19 12:08 PM

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57. "What's the tipping point for the GOP? "
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

At what point will the public opinion be so far against Trump that they can't keep blindly backing him?

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon Nov-18-19 05:16 PM

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61. "They have to feel it's safe. People talk about Lindsey Graham"
In response to Reply # 57
Mon Nov-18-19 05:17 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

like "What happened to Lindsay Graham?" every time there's a clip of him up Trump's ass, because of all the shit he talked about Trump in the primary, but the truth is Lindsey only said this things because he was 110% certain Trump was gonna lose, and now he's over correcting. Repubs have to be all but certain it's over before they pretend to take a principled stand against Trump

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Nov-18-19 12:15 PM

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58. "i dont like to spend too much time on the politics of it"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

it is something that does need to be considered though.

one thing that does have me concerned is what happens when it goes to the senate for trial? warren already said she will suspend her campaign to attend the trial.

i think this needs to move along as fast as necessary. no faster or slower. hopefully they do have a plan regarding the timing but im trying to not worry too much about it.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Nov-18-19 12:22 PM

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59. "To be fair, this is a poll of just 506 people."
In response to Reply # 56


          

But still - I'm confident that if the scope of the poll were expanded it would return similar figures. I think the tide is finally turning, specifically among those who we all knew all along could be persuaded: the moderate conservative types who were still defending Individual 1 due to lack of information, not due to any actual devotion to the man himself.

In other words, like we've all talked about many times here - Dems' messaging has made ALL the difference. The Fascist base isn't going anywhere no matter what. But the folks who could be swayed were, I'd say, fairly easily swayed once Dems decided to hone in on a central message and beat it into our heads publicly.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Nov-18-19 08:26 PM

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62. "of the 21% following closely...*67%* want impeachment and removal."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

jesus.

here are the full poll results.

https://preview.abcnews.go.com/Politics/70-americans-trumps-actions-tied-ukraine-wrong-poll/story?id=67088534

basically 2/3 of people who actually know whats going on think trump should be booted.

the only issue is getting the information in front of people.

------

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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60. "trump is dead in the qanon universe now."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/williamlegate/status/1195888800955678722

i wonder if they will keep showing up to his rallies.

------

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Mon Nov-18-19 09:49 PM

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64. "What the"
In response to Reply # 60


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
3556 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 09:31 AM

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65. "These fools doubling down on using Solomon"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


after he was already exposed

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/470656-yovanovitch-says-solomon-stories-were-used-to-push-false-allegations

Yovanovitch says John Solomon's columns were used to push false allegations


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/12/us/politics/john-solomon-ukraine-fox-news-the-hill.html

The Man Trump Trusts for News on Ukraine

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 10:56 AM

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66. "Pretty rich for fucking Nunes to invoke a "we tried to subpoena ..."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Nov-19-19 11:04 AM by Brew

          

... the whistleblower" narrative ?

What a bunch of fucking clowns the fascist party is. Shameless, reprehensible.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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handle
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Tue Nov-19-19 11:15 AM

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67. "He's the POSTER BOY for being a Reublican today"
In response to Reply # 66


          

And he's crooked to the core.

This is what Republicans do - use any and all power at there disposal to destroy their enemies.

And around 30%-40% of Americans are as irredeemable as he is.

------------
My prayers have been answered!

Gone
My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 11:17 AM

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68. "Yea."
In response to Reply # 67


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
41732 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 11:26 AM

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70. "sounds like by going through the list of people Vindman contacted"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

after the call Nunes was toeing the line of outing the whistle-blower

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
11687 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 11:28 AM

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71. "no toeing he was headed straight there before schiff shut it down"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
41732 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 11:30 AM

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73. "yeah that was poorly worded. he was going there for sure"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 11:56 AM

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75. "Yes exactly. Schiff is brilliant, by the way."
In response to Reply # 71


          

I already had a high level of respect for him but these hearings have only heightened that respect. He is a straight-forward, serious, intelligent academic and these hearings have been extremely well-administered by him. Thank god he hasn't allowed the Fascists to turn this into the clown show they want it to be.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
11687 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 11:24 AM

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69. "vindman sounded really nervous on his opening statement"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i was worried he would do bad when the GOP questioned him but hes settled down.

theres been a few new revelations this morning but overall im tuning it out.

williams is interesting. she seems to be very careful to not be used to validate the Dems talking points but is giving some eye opening statements.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5714 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 11:35 AM

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74. "with her lying ass"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
41732 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 11:29 AM

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72. "a prestigious position offering seems to be central to how"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Republicans will try to paint Vindman as a dual-agent. This seems to be their big ace in the hole as it was never brought up in closed-door hearings. Vindman seems to have taken it well and in reality it's merely a question of appearance but of course I expect it to be spun heavily by Fox and right-wing outlets.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
11687 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 12:16 PM

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76. "do you have any evidence that big foot isnt singing karaoke right now?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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PG
Charter member
42101 posts
Tue Nov-19-19 01:53 PM

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77. "http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/1218A9KM2MKzBK/giphy.gif"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/1218A9KM2MKzBK/giphy.gif

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14589 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 08:58 AM

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78. "^^^ for the Gordon problem"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Caught almost the entirety of yesterday's proceedings

Volker and Morrison are dirty.

Apparently today is the bombshell

I've got Rudy taking the fall

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 09:51 AM

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81. "THIS WILL NOT END WELL ©"
In response to Reply # 78


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Pete Burns
Member since Oct 18th 2005
5397 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 09:52 AM

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82. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 81


          

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33690 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 10:04 AM

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83. "Tekashi69 lookin at this mf Sondland like wtf???"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5714 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 10:18 AM

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84. ""Everyone was in the loop" Takeshi 6xSondland"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
8172 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 10:44 AM

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85. "i was not expecting sondland to go all in like that."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

do we even need any more hearings after that opening statement?

somebody must have hit devin nunes with the banana in the tail pipe because he clearly thought this shit was gonna play out the entirely other way.

------

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
11687 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 10:47 AM

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86. "we primarily discussed a$ap rocky"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

2019 is wild lol


im behind on listening but gordon is laying it all out there. im sure trump has already tried to distance himself and discredit him.

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14457 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 10:50 AM

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87. "I'm sayin'! That shit is in historical record!"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

I would drop a freestyle TODAY to capitalize on that shit.

_
http://www.twitter.com/natethreepoint0
http://www.BFFsOMGLOL.com
http://natethreepoint0.tumblr.com
http://soundcloud.com/nate-3-0
http://wickedawesomebookcovers.tumblr.com

  

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fontgangsta
Member since Sep 04th 2005
5115 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 11:09 AM

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88. "RE: I'm sayin'! That shit is in historical record!"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

>I would drop a freestyle TODAY to capitalize on that shit.

"talkin bout me in congress
i was rippin bong hits"

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
9600 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 11:12 AM

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89. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 86


          

what a country

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
11687 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 12:08 PM

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97. "everything came back to me when he mentioned a$ap rocky"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

  

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Numba_33
Charter member
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Wed Nov-20-19 12:41 PM

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101. "That'll be the first time in history"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

that C-SPAN will be the source for something getting sampled because that has to be part of a hook/chorus for certain.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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naame
Charter member
20848 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 12:43 PM

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103. "we in a bad place"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

bring on the bombs


America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
8172 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 11:13 AM

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90. "look at devin nunes face lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1197184057249062915

------

  

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Hitokiri
Charter member
20594 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 11:24 AM

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91. "lmao! Bruh is lookin cooked!"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
41732 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 11:30 AM

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93. "was that before the break? I was watching live and lol'd"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

he definitely was fed something entirely different as far as what to expect

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
18741 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 11:45 AM

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94. "Word is this bozo has walked outside the WH to get cameras on him. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

We’ll see within the next five minutes if they cut away, I’m watching CSPAN so 🤷🏾‍♂️

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
11687 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 11:47 AM

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95. "who??"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

i just wrapped up the first 45 min questioning

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
18741 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 11:52 AM

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96. "Donald Trump"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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fontgangsta
Member since Sep 04th 2005
5115 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 12:15 PM

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98. "sondland chose to save himself over the prez"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but i doubt this brings folks over on the senate side
best we can hope is this becomes a narrative that sticks for 2020, because trump is still gonna have to defend himself over all this on the campaign

  

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Numba_33
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17252 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 12:49 PM

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104. "On paper, Sondland was the one"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

individual testifying that was supposed to be most loyal to Trump since he only got his position as result of being a mega-donor, correct? That is pretty wild. Trump can't claim he was a 'never-Trumper' since the dude paid a grip of money just to be in The White House.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
11687 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 12:55 PM

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105. "its funny that nunes said sondland would be smeared today"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

i didnt know he meant by the GOP lol

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12087 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 01:08 PM

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107. "Trump will definitely bring up the fact that he originally supported Jeb..."
In response to Reply # 104
Wed Nov-20-19 01:08 PM by stravinskian

          

He switched to Trump later, after Jeb dropped out. He just wanted to buy an ambassadorship.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5714 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 12:15 PM

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99. "Shout out to Mike Pompeo"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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Quas
Member since Oct 29th 2008
292 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 12:31 PM

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100. "RE: Impeachment Hearings - Bribery, Extortion, & Kuruption in the WH"
In response to Reply # 0


          

From The Hill:

"We did not want to work with Mr. Giuliani," Sondland said, referring to himself, former Perry and Kurt Volker, the then-U.S. envoy to Ukraine.

"Simply put, we played the hand we were dealt. We all understood that if we refused to work with Mr. Giuliani, we would lose an important opportunity to cement relations between the United States and Ukraine. So we followed the president's orders."

  

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naame
Charter member
20848 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 12:42 PM

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102. "bruh."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/GettyImagesNews/status/1197202729334128642


America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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PROMO
Charter member
25226 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 01:05 PM

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106. "shoutout to FWMJ. he bodied this: "
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

https://twitter.com/fwmj/status/1197210516134998016

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
10221 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 03:10 PM

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127. "Holy balls that's perfect!"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

My co-worker had to check on me when I started cackling after reading this one.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12087 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 01:12 PM

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108. "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy."
In response to Reply # 102


          

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
42460 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 01:22 PM

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109. "I... I mean... that can't be real, right?"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

Of course, it is, but I'm holding out... hope, if I can even call it that.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12087 posts
Thu Nov-21-19 10:26 AM

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151. "Oh it was a SONG."
In response to Reply # 102


          

https://mobile.twitter.com/saosasha/status/1197320791706263552

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 02:13 PM

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110. "I think this has been a good day for the Fascists."
In response to Reply # 0


          

To this point I think Dems had been making significant gains in terms of making their case and swaying public opinion.

Today has been bad. Sondland's not a great witness for them, and the fascists have pounced on it.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5714 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 02:14 PM

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111. "what the fuck?!"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

how high are you right now

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 02:22 PM

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112. "Well I want to be clear that I'm talking in reference to moving the need..."
In response to Reply # 111
Wed Nov-20-19 02:25 PM by Brew

          

Not just the facts of his testimony. The facts speak for themselves, obviously. They always have. The facts are indisputable to reasonable, objective people. And to this point, each witness has given more context and credence to the known facts, which has IMO helped move the needle of public opinion, which as we know is the only way senate fascists are going to even *consider* bringing this to trial.

But Sondland's general disposition - i.e. not taking notes, "not remembering" a ton of different details, etc. - has given a lot of ammo to the fascists and has left the Dems scrambling in response a little bit, at points. You could see Schiff getting visibly agitated with Sondland's inability and/or refusal to directly answer a question about investigation for aid, for example. Which, for optics, isn't good in terms of moving the needle of public opinion.

I'm open to different interpretations and hope that I'm wrong, of course. That's just the way I've been perceiving the events of today's testimony. I don't think Sondland has been a terrific witness for The Cause.

But I hope that the majority of people aren't seeing it the way I am, so again I'm open to your interpretation and others'. I'm just trying to be objective and realistic. Maybe it's a defense mechanism lol.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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PROMO
Charter member
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Wed Nov-20-19 02:26 PM

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113. "i mean, every fair and reasoned person with credibility..."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

that i've seen reporting on the testimony on twitter have talked about how damning this testimony is and how it cuts deep at the GOP's stance.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
18741 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 02:28 PM

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115. "Even Ken Starr who has zero credibility is like “damn”"
In response to Reply # 113
Wed Nov-20-19 02:29 PM by MEAT

  

          

.

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14457 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 02:29 PM

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116. "This is our problem:"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

>on twitter

^^

_
http://www.twitter.com/natethreepoint0
http://www.BFFsOMGLOL.com
http://natethreepoint0.tumblr.com
http://soundcloud.com/nate-3-0
http://wickedawesomebookcovers.tumblr.com

  

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PROMO
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Wed Nov-20-19 02:31 PM

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117. "that's where news happens in 2019. welcome to the present."
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

i mean, i get your point, but it is what it is.

now, if you mean the problem is the NEWS MEDIA doesn't talk about it so the average american finds out, i feel you there.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14457 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 02:37 PM

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119. "Yeah, that's exactly what I meant"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

>now, if you mean the problem is the NEWS MEDIA doesn't talk
>about it so the average american finds out, i feel you there.

We gotta push the narrative off Twitter. 'Cause we're cheerin' dunks that the majority of the country ain't even watchin' the game.

_
http://www.twitter.com/natethreepoint0
http://www.BFFsOMGLOL.com
http://natethreepoint0.tumblr.com
http://soundcloud.com/nate-3-0
http://wickedawesomebookcovers.tumblr.com

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
18726 posts
Wed Nov-20-19 02:39 PM

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120. "Correct."
In response to Reply # 119


          

>We gotta push the narrative off Twitter. 'Cause we're cheerin'
>dunks that the majority of the country ain't even watchin' the
>game.

We're all following "reasonable and credible" folks ...... who are reasonable and credible *TO US*. And rightfully so, I think most of us here are on the correct side of this issue and all issues with this govt and admin, and therefore we follow objective, reasonable folks accordingly.

But that's not an accurate pulse of where the entire *nation* stands on the testimony.

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PROMO
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122. "great analogy. "
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

is there any way to even fix it at this point? i'm honestly asking and wondering if it's even possible.

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Brew
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123. "Haha yea the fixes are sitting on Moscow Mitch's desk."
In response to Reply # 122


          

I'm sort of shifting the convo but it's all part of the same larger discussion - regulating and disallowing misinformation.


>is there any way to even fix it at this point? i'm honestly
>asking and wondering if it's even possible.

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fontgangsta
Member since Sep 04th 2005
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Wed Nov-20-19 02:56 PM

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124. "nothing gets accomplished on twitter"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

its a partisan wasteland
and this impeachment is going nowhere either

which isn't to say it shouldnt be happening - all this shit needs to get out in the open, because with Hil'16 it was "BUT DA EMAILS" - with trump'20 it needs to be "BUT UKRAINE"

  

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Brew
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125. "EXACTLY."
In response to Reply # 124


          

>which isn't to say it shouldnt be happening - all this shit
>needs to get out in the open, because with Hil'16 it was "BUT
>DA EMAILS" - with trump'20 it needs to be "BUT UKRAINE"

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CaptNish
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Wed Nov-20-19 03:06 PM

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126. "Part of the issue"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

> with Hil'16 it was "BUT
>DA EMAILS" - with trump'20 it needs to be "BUT UKRAINE"

...is that what works to get the Right in lockstep doesn't work on the Left.

There was an NPR article recently about a guy who runs 25 fake news websites that pushes Republican conspiracy theories. He was saying how easy it is to make money by writing an article that "confirms" some outlandish theory, post it in a Trump group on Facebook, and the shit goes viral. The interviewer asked if they ever tried it on the Left and dude was like yeah, we tried but it's not successful because by like comment two, the article is debunked as fake.

So like, yes.... we need to dumb down the message for the masses. But we have to understand that we can't use the same strategy and expect it to work as well.

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fontgangsta
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128. "A - hilarious and amazing"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

id love to read that article
but B

>we tried but it's not successful because by like comment
>two, the article is debunked as fake.

should be a non-issue since this MF'er actually did the thing

  

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CaptNish
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130. "Here you go *swipe*"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs

THE INDUSTRY
We Tracked Down A Fake-News Creator In The Suburbs. Here's What We Learned
November 23, 20163:31 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered

"The whole idea from the start was to build a site that could kind of infiltrate the echo chambers of the alt-right."
Fanatic Studio/Getty Images

A lot of fake and misleading news stories were shared across social media during the election. One that got a lot of traffic had this headline: "FBI Agent Suspected In Hillary Email Leaks Found Dead In Apparent Murder-Suicide." The story is completely false, but it was shared on Facebook over half a million times.

We wondered who was behind that story and why it was written. It appeared on a site that had the look and feel of a local newspaper. Denverguardian.com even had the local weather. But it had only one news story — the fake one.


We tried to look up who owned it and hit a wall. The site was registered anonymously. So we brought in some professional help.

By day, John Jansen is head of engineering at Master-McNeil Inc., a tech company in Berkeley, Calif. In the interest of real news he helped us track down the owner of Denverguardian.com.

Jansen started by looking at the site's history. "Commonly that's called scraping or crawling websites," he says.

Jansen is kind of like an archaeologist. He says that nothing you do on the Web disappears — it just gets buried — like a fossil. But if you do some digging you'll find those fossils and learn a lot of history.

The "Denver Guardian" was built and designed using a pretty common platform — WordPress. It's used by bloggers and people who want to create their own websites. Jansen found that the first entry ever for the site was done by someone with the handle LetTexasSecede.

The whole idea from the start was to build a site that could kind of infiltrate the echo chambers of the alt-right, publish blatantly or fictional stories and then be able to publicly denounce those stories and point out the fact that they were fiction.

Jestin Coler, publisher of fake news sites

"That was sort of the thread that started to unravel everything," Jansen says. "I was able to track that through to a bunch of other sites which are where that handle is also present."

The sites include NationalReport.net, USAToday.com.co, WashingtonPost.com.co. All the addresses linked to a single rented server inside Amazon Web Services. That meant they were all very likely owned by the same company. Jansen found an email address on one of those sites and was able to link that address to a name: Jestin Coler.

Online, Coler was listed as the founder and CEO of a company called Disinfomedia. Coler's LinkedIn profile said he once sold magazine subscriptions, worked as a database administrator and as a freelance writer for among others, International Yachtsman magazine. And, using his name, we found a home address.

On a warm, sunny afternoon I set out with a producer for a suburb of Los Angeles. Coler lived in a middle-class neighborhood of pastel-colored one-story beach bungalows. His home had an unwatered lawn — probably the result of California's ongoing drought. There was a black minivan in the driveway and a large prominent American flag.

We rang the front doorbell and a man answered, his face obscured by a heavy mesh steel screen. I asked for Jestin Coler. The man indicated that's who he was. But when I asked about Disinfomedia, he said, "I don't know what to tell you guys. Have a good day."

We left Coler our contact information thinking he wasn't likely to talk. But a couple of hours later he had a change of heart. He sent us an email and we set up an interview.

Coler is a soft-spoken 40-year-old with a wife and two kids. He says he got into fake news around 2013 to highlight the extremism of the white nationalist alt-right.

"The whole idea from the start was to build a site that could kind of infiltrate the echo chambers of the alt-right, publish blatantly or fictional stories and then be able to publicly denounce those stories and point out the fact that they were fiction," Coler says.

He was amazed at how quickly fake news could spread and how easily people believe it. He wrote one fake story for NationalReport.net about how customers in Colorado marijuana shops were using food stamps to buy pot.

"What that turned into was a state representative in the House in Colorado proposing actual legislation to prevent people from using their food stamps to buy marijuana based on something that had just never happened," Coler says.

Postelection, Overwhelmed Facebook Users Unfriend, Cut Back
ALL TECH CONSIDERED
Post-Election, Overwhelmed Facebook Users Unfriend, Cut Back
During the run-up to the presidential election, fake news really took off. "It was just anybody with a blog can get on there and find a big, huge Facebook group of kind of rabid Trump supporters just waiting to eat up this red meat that they're about to get served," Coler says. "It caused an explosion in the number of sites. I mean, my gosh, the number of just fake accounts on Facebook exploded during the Trump election."

Coler says his writers have tried to write fake news for liberals — but they just never take the bait.

Coler's company, Disinfomedia, owns many faux news sites — he won't say how many. But he says his is one of the biggest fake-news businesses out there, which makes him a sort of godfather of the industry.

At any given time, Coler says, he has between 20 and 25 writers. And it was one of them who wrote the story in the "Denver Guardian" that an FBI agent who leaked Clinton emails was killed. Coler says that over 10 days the site got 1.6 million views. He says stories like this work because they fit into existing right-wing conspiracy theories.

"The people wanted to hear this," he says. "So all it took was to write that story. Everything about it was fictional: the town, the people, the sheriff, the FBI guy. And then ... our social media guys kind of go out and do a little dropping it throughout Trump groups and Trump forums and boy it spread like wildfire."


And as the stories spread, Coler makes money from the ads on his websites. He wouldn't give exact figures, but he says stories about other fake-news proprietors making between $10,000 and $30,000 a month apply to him. Coler fits into a pattern of other faux news sites that make good money, especially by targeting Trump supporters.

However, Coler insists this is not about money. It's about showing how easily fake news spreads. And fake news spread wide and far before the election. When I pointed out to Coler that the money gave him a lot of incentive to keep doing it regardless of the impact, he admitted that was "correct."

Coler says he has tried to shine a light on the problem of fake news. He has spoken to the media about it. But those organizations didn't know who he actually was. He gave them a fake name: Allen Montgomery.

Coler, a registered Democrat, says he has no regrets about his fake news empire. He doesn't think fake news swayed the election.

"There are many factors as to why Trump won that don't involve fake news," he says. "As much as I like Hillary, she was a poor candidate. She brought in a lot of baggage."

Coler doesn't think fake news is going away. One of his sites — NationalReport.net — was flagged as fake news under a new Google policy, and Google stopped running ads on it. But Coler had other options.

"There are literally hundreds of ad networks," he says. "Early last week, my inbox was just filled every day with people because they knew that Google was cracking down — hundreds of people wanting to work with my sites."

Coler says he has been talking it over with his wife and may be getting out of the fake-news racket. But, he says, dozens, maybe hundreds of entrepreneurs will be ready to take his place. And he thinks it will only get harder to tell their websites from real news sites. They know now that fake news sells and they will only be in it for the money.

Below are highlights of NPR's interview with Coler.

Interview Highlights:
Tell me a little about why you started Disinfomedia?

Late 2012, early 2013 I was spending a lot of time researching what is now being referred to as the alt-right. I identified a problem with the news that they were spreading and created Disinfomedia as a response to that. The whole idea from the start was to build a site that could infiltrate the echo chambers of the alt-right, publish blatantly false or fictional stories and then be able to publicly denounce those stories and point out the fact that they were fiction.

What got you engaged in this?

My educational background is in political science. I've always enjoyed the ideas of propaganda and misinformation. Then I coupled that with an interest in what makes things go viral. So that led me to finding those groups and ultimately to finding contributors. But it was just something I had an interest in that I wanted to pursue.

When did you notice that fake news does best with Trump supporters?

Well, this isn't just a Trump-supporter problem. This is a right-wing issue. Sarah Palin's famous blasting of the lamestream media is kind of record and testament to the rise of these kinds of people. The post-fact era is what I would refer to it as. This isn't something that started with Trump. This is something that's been in the works for a while. His whole campaign was this thing of discrediting mainstream media sources, which is one of those dog whistles to his supporters. When we were coming up with headlines it's always kind of about the red meat. Trump really got into the red meat. He knew who his base was. He knew how to feed them a constant diet of this red meat.

We've tried to do similar things to liberals. It just has never worked, it never takes off. You'll get debunked within the first two comments and then the whole thing just kind of fizzles out.

How many domains do you own and run?

Well, I would say there's somewhere around 25 domains that I am currently managing. National Report has been my bread and butter, where I've spent most of my time. I have people who work with me and for me in developing and maintaining the other sites and social media kind of stuff. So I, for the most part, focus on National Report, and a lot of the other stuff is run by other folks on the team.

So, you're the publisher of an empire.

Well I wouldn't go so far as to call it an empire but, yes, it's several sites .

How many people do you have writing for you?

It comes and goes, and as for actual employed writers, again these guys sort of make their own money through ad code. So I don't say, 'Hey, you have to write 10 stories this week' and this and that. Really, we have a more free-form idea where people, when their creativity strikes them then they can write something. And if they're in a slump then they just go dormant for a while. With that said, at any given time there's probably 20, 25 contributors all over the country. ...

Talk about the "Denver Guardian."

Well, it's kind of a side project. We have some people working on next steps in the fake-news industry, and that came from that whole discussion. We had purchased several domain names that sounded legitimate. ... More local news sort of stories. The idea was to make the sites look as legit as possible so the home page is going to be local news and local forecast, local sports, some obituaries and things of that nature, and then the actual fake news stories were going to be buried off the home page.

We've tried lots of things in the past. The dot-com-dot-co domains were something I toyed in for a while. Those I quickly got away from because you don't get away long with borrowing someone's copyright or trademark. That was something that worked very well from a fake-news perspective. People were fooled into the domain name, but that wasn't so much what we were after. So again, the next step was to go after more city-type sites. And the "Denver Guardian" was one of those sites.

You're talking about the future of this (fake-news business) which looks more insidious because it's more real?

That's the way that it's going to be. Not just from where I am. I mean, this is probably going to be my last run in the fake-news biz, but I can promise you that it's not going to go away. It's even going to grow bigger and it's going to be harder to identify as it kind of evolves through these steps. ...

Do you know who wrote the actual FBI Clinton story?

I do know who wrote the story, but only through an anonymous pen name. Privacy is something that we take very seriously in our writers group. The actual reasonings behind that story ... it's one of hundreds that have been written about mysterious deaths of Clinton associates or political foes. This one kind of took off more than others, I believe, just because of the nature of the story. The people wanted to hear this. So all it took was to write that story. Everything about it was fictional. The town, the people, the sheriff, the FBI guy. Then, we had our social media guys kind of go out and do a little dropping it throughout Trump groups and Trump forums and boy it spread like wildfire.

Why hide your identity?

This isn't the safest business to be in, to be honest. Just the number of death threats I've received. I have a beautiful family, a beautiful life.

Some of these people that we ... bait is probably the right word — are often — let's call them the deplorables, right? They're not the safest crowd. Some of them I would consider domestic terrorists. So they're just not people that I want to be knocking on my door.

It seems like National Report is getting spoofier.

If you went to National Report today, it's specifically satire. "Chris Christie nominated to Supreme Food Court." "Sarah Palin Banning Muslims from Entering Bristol Palin." They're a little bit more offensive than some people care for their satire. I mean fat-shaming and slut-shaming isn't something that is normally met with applause. But again, it's a lot more fun in nature.

Do you make serious money?

It depends on what you would call serious money. I think I do pretty well.

Can you say how well?

I would rather not. There have been some people who have been reported on recently. The folks in Long Beach that were doing just all right stuff. They were reporting $10,000 to $30,000 a month; I think that's probably a relative ballpark.

So you're doing as well as those?

Yes.

You're making money through the ads?

Yes.

Who do you work with?

We have several advertisers. Google was one, although they shut down my account last week. We've replaced them with other advertisers.

Can I ask who?

There are literally hundreds of ad networks. Literally hundreds. Last week my inbox was just filled everyday with people, because they knew that Google was cracking down — hundreds of people wanting to work with my sites. I kind of applaud Google for their steps, although I think what they're doing is kind of random. They don't really have a process in place for identifying these things. I happen to know a very successful site that, as of today, of this morning is still serving Google ads. So it seems to be a kind of arbitrary step that they're taking either based on, I don't know if it was my reputation within the industry or specifically the "Denver Guardian" site that angered them, or I don't know what it is, but back to your question, there's hundreds of people that will work with me.

What can be done about fake news?

Some of this has to fall on the readers themselves. The consumers of content have to be better at identifying this stuff. We have a whole nation of media-illiterate people. Really, there needs to be something done.

Do you consider yourself an entrepreneur?

Sure.

Are you one of the biggest in the fake-news biz?

If you look at someone who has specifically sometimes peddled in fictional news then I think that I would probably be considered one of the larger sites.

As a liberal, do you have any regrets?

I don't. Again, this is something that I've been crying about for a while. But outside of that, there are many factors as to why Trump won that don't involve fake news, right? As much as I like Hillary, she was a poor candidate. She brought in a lot of baggage.

You don't feel responsible.

I do not.

Do you think you would have kept doing it if it wasn't so lucrative?

Really, the financial part of it isn't the only motivator for me. I do enjoy making a mess of the people that share the content that comes out of our site. It's not just the financial incentive for me. I still enjoy the game I guess.

Would you do this all over again?

Well, I guess it came to a head here and we're talking about it. It'll be interesting to see what happens moving forward. If I had to, if I knew specifically the "Denver Guardian" situation, that would have been handled differently. But everything else, as far as the work I've done with National Report, I'm very proud of, and I'm going to continue doing it.

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fontgangsta
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131. "ugh, fuck this guy"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

i dont know how you can argue that theres no real world impact of devaluing the truth and facts
hes just as bad as the idiots hes feeding

  

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CaptNish
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Wed Nov-20-19 04:03 PM

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132. "Agreed"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

I may actually despise more than the people who buy the bullshit he peddles.

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Brew
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Wed Nov-20-19 03:26 PM

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129. "Great point."
In response to Reply # 126


          

Intelligence is a gift and a curse.

Much easier to just be stupid, and corrupt and criminal. Ha.

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Brew
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Wed Nov-20-19 02:35 PM

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118. "... and none of those people really matter in the context of what I'm ....."
In response to Reply # 113


          

... referring to.

Everyone on my Twitter timeline is talking about how damning this is too. But they do that everytime something comes up about this administration. And nothing has moved the needle in terms of impeaching this asshole yet.

So yes - they're all reasonable and credible ....... yet most of the American public is neither of those things, hence why we're in the situation we are currently in, with a blatantly criminal and corrupt administration with a shithole prez who lies multiple times daily. And hence why the Russia investigation came and went with a whimper (along with Mueller's refusal to actually do the right thing, but I digress).

Every reasonable and credible person on Twitter said that the Mueller Report was "damning," too. And look who's still in the White House.

So yea - it's damning. But is it *impactful* enough to move the needle with the general public, and therefore subsequently the unreasonable, non-credible fascists in the Senate.

No. The answer is no.

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CaptNish
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114. "I get what you are saying."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

And I'm not even going to disagree. But this is the thing that has been driving me nuts. These things are not going to sell themselves. The Dems need to take his testimony and frame it repeatedly in the media. Dumb it down and just say, here's what he said, here's how it confirms what we've been saying, and here is why that shit is illegal.

I had three different people at work today (who are not Trump supports) while I was listening to CSPAN out loud completely show me that this isn't going to go well. One said straight up said "Why are they even impeaching him?" and then after I cliffs noted it said "Do you think he did it?" Another told me how he doesn't like Trump, but how much he hates Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi (but of courser couldn't give me a legit reason why). And the third asked me what we're even doing in the Ukraine.

The public needs a Dr. Seuss version of this shit. It's frustrating and depressing, but the message isn't getting out there.

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Brew
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Wed Nov-20-19 02:40 PM

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121. "Right - exactly."
In response to Reply # 114


          

And like I said, IMO to this point, the prior witnesses and days of hearings, the message *was* getting out there.

But IMO today ain't one of those days. And it has completely stalled the momentum I feel that they had.


>And I'm not even going to disagree. But this is the thing
>that has been driving me nuts. These things are not going to
>sell themselves. The Dems need to take his testimony and
>frame it repeatedly in the media. Dumb it down and just say,
>here's what he said, here's how it confirms what we've been
>saying, and here is why that shit is illegal.
>
>I had three different people at work today (who are not Trump
>supports) while I was listening to CSPAN out loud completely
>show me that this isn't going to go well. One said straight
>up said "Why are they even impeaching him?" and then after I
>cliffs noted it said "Do you think he did it?" Another told
>me how he doesn't like Trump, but how much he hates Adam
>Schiff and Nancy Pelosi (but of courser couldn't give me a
>legit reason why). And the third asked me what we're even
>doing in the Ukraine.
>
>The public needs a Dr. Seuss version of this shit. It's
>frustrating and depressing, but the message isn't getting out
>there.

----------------------------------------

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mrhood75
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Wed Nov-20-19 04:05 PM

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133. "Yeah, this is a pretty cold hot take."
In response to Reply # 110


  

          


>Today has been bad. Sondland's not a great witness for them,
>and the fascists have pounced on it.

There's a big different between "Republicans anything in the Senate" and the above setiments. Nunes looked like he shit his pants. Drumf immediately ran out with his ridiculous flash cards. The GOP is scrambling right now. That does not translate into "This isn't going well for impeachment."

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makaveli
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Wed Nov-20-19 04:14 PM

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135. "the Nunes faces were great today"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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PG
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Wed Nov-20-19 04:37 PM

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138. "so good."
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

  

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makaveli
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143. "Some interesting Nunes news "
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

https://twitter.com/woodruffbets/status/1197323818945175552?s=21

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Brew
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Wed Nov-20-19 04:37 PM

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137. "It wasn't a hot take."
In response to Reply # 133
Wed Nov-20-19 04:41 PM by Brew

          

It was my interpretation watching in real time in the context of what it does to public perception and the chances for actual removal from office.

Republicans have been scrambling the entire time. That's what you do when the entirety of your defense relies on constantly moving the goalposts. But they're been doing this for 3 years and the needle hasn't moved. What does today mean in the context of actually removing this fool from office, anything ? Isn't that the ultimate goal ?

Obviously it's been unlikely from the beginning that he'd actually be removed but like I said I was feeling momentum in the hearings up to this point. Today I didn't feel that. Hopefully my perception isn't what middle America's was.

Not a hot take. And again, I hope that you all are right and my post was wrong. I'll be here celebrating with the rest of you.

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mrhood75
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139. "Sorry, dude, "Today has been bad" and "Sondland's not a great witness""
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

are both pretty freezing cold takes.

Again, there's a difference between "The Senate isn't going to do anything" and claiming that today went badly for those in favor of impeachment.

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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142. "exactly. "
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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Brew
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145. "Ha - I clarified my stance and you went silent but cool co-sign."
In response to Reply # 142


          

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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149. "Yeah, I saw. "
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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Brew
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153. "Dynamite drop-in."
In response to Reply # 149


          

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Brew
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144. "I added context/clarified in post #112 but whatever."
In response to Reply # 139


          

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Brew
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147. "Too late to edit but:"
In response to Reply # 139


          

>Again, there's a difference between "The Senate isn't going to
>do anything" and claiming that today went badly for those in
>favor of impeachment.

There's not much of a difference. What is the goal of "those in favor of impeachment" (aka dems) ? Ultimately it's removal from office, right ?

Andddd what would be required in order to achieve that goal ?

That's right ! Senate action.

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mrhood75
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Thu Nov-21-19 01:53 PM

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165. "Or you can just admit you were wrong when you said..."
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

..."Today has been bad."

The news of yesterday is still that Sondland implicated everybody, not "Sondland weakened the case for impeachment."

I know it's cool and all to be fatalistic after the past three years, but you don't need to invent scenarios where things have gone bad. There's enough **other** bad news.

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Brew
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Thu Nov-21-19 01:55 PM

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166. "Or you could stop putting words in my mouth."
In response to Reply # 165


          

>The news of yesterday is still that Sondland implicated
>everybody, not "Sondland weakened the case for impeachment."

I never said "Sondland weakened the case for impeachment," clown.

Try again.

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mrhood75
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167. "Calling me names doesn't make you any less wrong."
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

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Brew
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168. "Putting words in my mouth doesn't make you any more right."
In response to Reply # 167


          

... clown.

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mrhood75
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169. "I can think of some pretty dumb hills to die on "
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

Saying “Today was bad” and “Sondlands a bad witness” after yesterday isn’t the dumbest, but it’s in like the 95% percentile.

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Brew
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170. "That was cute."
In response to Reply # 169
Thu Nov-21-19 02:40 PM by Brew

          

>“Sondlands a bad witness”

Didn't say that either.

Try again - but this type stop acting like a republican.

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mista k5
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Thu Nov-21-19 10:43 AM

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154. "not to pile on but i cant agree"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

gop was counting on sondland. i think the dems have been suspicious about him from the get go. they know they have leverage on him.

it would be foolish for dems to put it all on him.

what i have been seeing is that the dems are shutting down the gop talking points one by one.

every time emphasizing how the white house and state department are still obstructing even more evidence.

sondland implicating so many people was huge.

then like you mentioned later the confirmation that ukraine was worried about aid as early as july 25th is huge as well.

  

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Brew
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158. "Yea you're 100% right IMO, and I agree."
In response to Reply # 154


          

>gop was counting on sondland. i think the dems have been
>suspicious about him from the get go. they know they have
>leverage on him.
>
>it would be foolish for dems to put it all on him.
>
>what i have been seeing is that the dems are shutting down the
>gop talking points one by one.

^^^ this is exactly what they're doing, and it's brilliant and very strategic.

But again my only point was that I don't think it will ultimately move the needle to rid the country of this cancer, which is the ultimate goal.


>every time emphasizing how the white house and state
>department are still obstructing even more evidence.
>
>sondland implicating so many people was huge.
>
>then like you mentioned later the confirmation that ukraine
>was worried about aid as early as july 25th is huge as well.

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed Nov-20-19 04:09 PM

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134. "did someone punch jim jordan in the eye?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/erinscafe/status/1197256164574056448

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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136. "democrats should cancel tonights hearing lol."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

semi serious.

you know someone desperate to get some pop in the polls is gonna say/do something that inadvertently snatches the limelight off sondland. and the press will falsely equivocate and obsess over it like they just sold off our foreign policy in exchange for a political favor.

or tulsi gabbard is gonna parrot gop talking points about the hearings and completely step on dem messaging while giving right wing media their chyrons for the next 48 hours.

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mrhood75
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Wed Nov-20-19 05:49 PM

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140. "I'm assuming you mean debate, right?"
In response to Reply # 136
Wed Nov-20-19 05:52 PM by mrhood75

  

          

Better to keep the focus on the hearings.

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Reeq
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141. "yeah i meant debate. these 2 a day hearings are overkill too tho."
In response to Reply # 140
Wed Nov-20-19 06:34 PM by Reeq

  

          

right now you have people testifying that the order to hold up aid definitely came from the white house and most people wont see it plus it gets footnoted by the earlier sondland testimony.

one of the witnesses also just testified that ukraine was aware of a hold on the aid at least on july 25th (trump/zelensky call day). thats a pretty big revelation and kills a constant republican talking point that ukraine didnt even know aid was held up before it was released.

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Nov-20-19 10:47 PM

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146. "Yes this is why I thought Sondland wasn't great for dems today."
In response to Reply # 141


          

>right now you have people testifying that the order to hold
>up aid definitely came from the white house and most people
>wont see it plus it gets footnoted by the earlier sondland
>testimony.

There was a moment when rep Turner said "no one on this planet" then named all the big players "told you that aid was tied to political investigations, is that correct" to which Sondland responded "that's correct."

Now *I* understand the context surrounding everything he said in his testimony today. Most of us on this board obviously do - we understand that intent can - and was, in this case - be implied without an express statement of that intent. That's obvious.

But your average American hears that soundbite, and is like "sooo why are we doing this ?" I literally had this conversation with a guy who works in my office building (but not my company) today.

*That's* what I was referring to (this isn't aimed at you by the way) in my post above when I said that this "wasn't going very well." IMO this was the first hearing where the dems *didn't* gain momentum with that demographic of people. Sondland outlined in his opening statement that there *was* qui pro quo, but the fascists recovered well from that and got that and other soundbites that will be what sticks with the average American, from today. Despite the inherent and "damning" context that the rest of us understand.

I don't think that's that hot of a take.


>one of the witnesses also just testified that ukraine was
>aware of a hold on the aid at least on july 25th
>(trump/zelensky call day). thats a pretty big revelation and
>kills a constant republican talking point that ukraine didnt
>even know aid was held up before it was released.

I just read about this before opening this post and yea - that may be huge as it not only counters one of the fascists' main talking points like you said, but it simultaneously closes a loophole leftover from Sondland's testimony today.

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Thu Nov-21-19 10:17 AM

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150. "If you wake up in the morning, and there's snow on the ground"
In response to Reply # 146
Thu Nov-21-19 10:24 AM by bentagain

  

          

But you didn't stay awake all night to see it

Did it snow?

The defense that someone literally didn't say...this is a bribe...this is extortion...do x if you want y...

Is not actually a legal defense

Circumstantial evidence can be weighed the same as physical evidence

That's literally the point for the hearings...to confirm from multiple parties that that was the understanding

Sondland did testify...I believe after 9.5...that he and Ukraine were fully aware that the release of aid was tied to announcing the investigations

Cooper also shot a hole in the defense...which, ironically, also isn't a legal defense...that Ukraine didn't know there was a hold on the aid

The defense that no one explicitly said those words...is not a legal defense.

The defense that Ukraine didn't know about the hold...is not a legal defense.

...and of course, we know the defense that the investigations were legitimately about Ukraine corruption...is also not true.

The Rs sound more and more idiotic as the days pass, as does anyone still buying the BS

You're never going to get 'the base' to turn

should be painfully evident, from the insurmountable facts presented, that that 'base' will hold on to any thread which could save their hero

The BIGGER takeaway from Sondland's testimony is the...everyone was in on it

Which leads to the question, does the impeachment testimony grow tentacles, and pull in everyone involved

Top to bottom, they were all complicit

Trumpster
Pence
Pompeo
Mulvaney
Perry
Sondland
Volker
Morrison
Ghouliani
= all knew, all complicit, all were helping facilitate.

Leavenworth is going to need a Trumpster wing.

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Brew
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Thu Nov-21-19 10:29 AM

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152. "Yea I get all that. Will Senate repugs turn ? I don't think so."
In response to Reply # 150
Thu Nov-21-19 10:29 AM by Brew

          

At least not based on yesterday. That's all I've been referring to. Thx.

But today's testimony is already getting things back on track IMO.

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Thu Nov-21-19 12:38 AM

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148. "Finally caught up on the past few days activities...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://gfycat.com/tenderbriskarcticseal-kenan-thompson

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Nov-21-19 10:53 AM

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155. "Watching the hearings in real time probably does one a disservice. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I had been watching people on Twitter and immediately after Sondland's statements there were all sorts of declarations Trump was over.

By end of the day, it seemed like more of the same.

This won't do Trump end. I think the damage is trump generally seems corrupt and his administration has too much scandal which should turn off a portion of voters but the ideal that he will be impeached seems like a stretch to me.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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bentagain
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Thu Nov-21-19 11:11 AM

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156. "IMO, if they can get Bolton...then it's a wrap"
In response to Reply # 155
Thu Nov-21-19 11:12 AM by bentagain

  

          

I disagree

I did miss the first week's testimony in real time

But I did get to watch this week's testimony in real time

I find it fascinating TBH

The strategy is bottom up

The top/inner circle jerks want to disregard subponeas

So the Ds are calling for testimony from persons that have the information, whether firsthand or secondary

in an effort to smoke these guys out of their holes

Feels like Sondland was compelled to testify because he was caught in a lie during his initial testimony

i.e. they don't want to testify, we'll call people who will testify to what you knew

From my above reply, the implication is that they were all complicit

If they don't come forward to clarify

I expect legal charges against them.

i.e. it ain't over

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Brew
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Thu Nov-21-19 11:14 AM

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157. "Pretty much."
In response to Reply # 155


          

>I had been watching people on Twitter and immediately after
>Sondland's statements there were all sorts of declarations
>Trump was over.
>
>By end of the day, it seemed like more of the same.
>
>This won't do Trump end. I think the damage is trump
>generally seems corrupt and his administration has too much
>scandal which should turn off a portion of voters but the
>ideal that he will be impeached seems like a stretch to me.

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handle
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Thu Nov-21-19 11:23 AM

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159. "What has happened is that the voice of the goober is now too big"
In response to Reply # 155


          

Twitter is filled with goobers, very smart people who are cynical liars, and bots.

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My prayers have been answered!

Gone
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naame
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Thu Nov-21-19 12:16 PM

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160. "watching these hearings in real time is the only way to watch"
In response to Reply # 155
Thu Nov-21-19 12:17 PM by naame

  

          

watching twitter is the absolutely wrong way to watch the hearings

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Thu Nov-21-19 12:22 PM

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161. "like so much on twitter it de-contextualizes the broader narrative"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

Vindman's response on being offered the position in Ukraine was easily spun by conservative Twitter.

By end of day, if you are playing catch-up you've lost the power of the the ah-ha moments, or you're getting the same information with an underlying, constructed narrative behind it.

  

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naame
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Thu Nov-21-19 12:59 PM

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162. "and really, read the transcripts as well! i'm all late on asap rocky"
In response to Reply # 161
Thu Nov-21-19 12:59 PM by naame

  

          

because i didn't read the transcripts. I imagine there are many more answers to questions that I have, like why didn't sondland participate in the July 25th call if he was going to be meeting with Zelensky on the 26th? Shit just seems off.

Twitter is the home of information warfare and spin right now. Nothing on it is to be trusted without verification. That goes for mass shootings, flight times, obituaries, hearing testimony, rap song lyrics, etc. Nothing on there is trustworthy which is why it's such a shame that our news media has become so enraptured by it.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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mista k5
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Thu Nov-21-19 01:09 PM

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163. "who knows what is tricky"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

it almost seems like someone was competent enough to purposely separate what everyone knew. only some people have knowledge on some aspects while others have direct knowledge of other aspects.

like brew and others have mentioned the facts are there, have been there.

right now its about convincing enough republicans and the public about it and why it should result in impeachment.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Nov-25-19 11:41 AM

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207. "No. The alterantive isn't watch real time on twitter. The alternative ..."
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

until the day is over, folks can digest, and read the longform journalist you trust write about it.

That is, if you aren't going to watch yourself.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Nov-21-19 01:32 PM

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164. "he could kill somebody on live tv and he'll still be president tomorrow."
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Nov-21-19 02:58 PM

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171. "fiona hill beat the repubs into submission."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

got nunes interrupting his own handpicked counsel.

repubs just giving up on asking questions.

cuz damn near any question they *did* ask backfired and just elicited more damning testimony about trump/sondland.

her shit is masterful.

------

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Nov-21-19 03:00 PM

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172. "Yea she was tremendous. Had them clowns leaving the room."
In response to Reply # 171


          

I still don't think it will be enough to get the job done ultimately (never did, but had hope after last week) but yea - she came off expertly. Well-prepared, well-spoken, and like you said she roasted every fascist pillar of defense and talking point in real time.

Really well done.

Plus when she said "fact" it sounded like "fucked" so that was a nice added layer of entertainment.

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Thu Nov-21-19 03:12 PM

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173. "no notes either. turns out SHE is the star witness, not Taylor"
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

like the Republicans wanted to claim last week

They were just taking turns grandstanding instead of inviting her responses, until they shifted to Holmes

  

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Brew
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Thu Nov-21-19 03:16 PM

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174. "Haha yea that was wild"
In response to Reply # 173


          

To be expected, but wild to witness. They just took their 5 minutes to present their own cases ... I loved when Schiff was like "wait did you have a question or ... ?"

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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175. "will hurd has me worried"
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

he has been asking the most dull questions in all the hearings. today he basically joined the rest of the GOP in saying he has not seen proof for impeachment. i think he didnt vote no on the inquiry.

for a little bit i thought he was about to flip and say he now did see there was proof but instead he joined the rest of the herd. i know his vote isnt needed in the house but some members of the GOP do need to break from the herd so the momentum can build.

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
18741 posts
Thu Nov-21-19 04:13 PM

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176. "Santa isn’t real and there’s no such thing as a good Republican. "
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Nov-21-19 04:23 PM

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177. "Damn right."
In response to Reply # 176


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Thu Nov-21-19 04:34 PM

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178. "this is the im not a crook defense"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

no quid pro quo no quid pro quo

its like being pulled over for speeding and immediately saying "i didnt rob the bank!"

funny and true.

  

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Trinity444
Charter member
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Fri Nov-22-19 06:52 PM

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179. "Dr Hill came hard..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

moons ago, Bernie said if we’re (dems) still talking about trump. trump wins again.
here we are...






  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
3556 posts
Fri Nov-22-19 07:24 PM

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180. "What ?"
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

Don't talk about Trump ?

Bernie is wrong.

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godleeluv
Member since Jun 11th 2013
5764 posts
Fri Nov-22-19 07:46 PM

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181. "None of this matter. The senate won’t impeach him"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Nov-22-19 07:47 PM by godleeluv

  

          

They will drag Biden and his son through the mud.

Biden loses the worst in this situation and trump will be re elected. Why? Because trump don’t like abortion or homosexuality
... "A Beautiful Struggle"
https://m.facebook.com/jamelabullock
Www.reverbnation.com/jamela

MELa
Musically.Entertaining.Lyrically.Alluring.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
3556 posts
Fri Nov-22-19 08:02 PM

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182. "What ?"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

Nah can't do nothing, that's giving up.

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godleeluv
Member since Jun 11th 2013
5764 posts
Fri Nov-22-19 08:11 PM

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183. "I’m just saying. This won’t end well for Democrats "
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

Trump can’t be beaten.

And I don’t like trump I just know a winner when I see one. When he falls it will be his own doing.
... "A Beautiful Struggle"
https://m.facebook.com/jamelabullock
Www.reverbnation.com/jamela

MELa
Musically.Entertaining.Lyrically.Alluring.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Fri Nov-22-19 08:20 PM

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184. "wow"
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

You've given up.

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godleeluv
Member since Jun 11th 2013
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Fri Nov-22-19 08:34 PM

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185. "I have. Just like I finally gave up on redskins"
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

Sometimes you have to just take the L and admit defeat
... "A Beautiful Struggle"
https://m.facebook.com/jamelabullock
Www.reverbnation.com/jamela

MELa
Musically.Entertaining.Lyrically.Alluring.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Fri Nov-22-19 08:50 PM

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186. "Damnnnnnnnnnnn"
In response to Reply # 185


  

          

The Redskins was wrong from the jump but this, damnnnnnnnnnnn

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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Fri Nov-22-19 09:15 PM

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187. "Devin Nunes' weekend just went to shit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Parnas ready to snitch

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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Fri Nov-22-19 10:34 PM

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188. "Also, I finally placed who Nunes sounded like all week during his statem..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he sounds EXACTLY like E.B. Farnum on Deadwood he also acts exactly like E.B. Farnum on Deadwood

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
42460 posts
Sat Nov-23-19 12:02 AM

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189. ""God damned quagmire of piss and bull shit!""
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Vex_id
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Sun Nov-24-19 02:13 PM

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190. "Polls show impeachment probe strengthening Trump's position"
In response to Reply # 0


          

yikes! (though we should've seen this coming if we're being honest).

-----

The impeachment inquiry into US President Donald Trump has done little to change the American public's views about him and may even have alienated some swing voters, according to new polling.

Early support for impeaching Mr Trump has faded despite days of sobering testimony from non-partisan veteran public servants on an alleged campaign to pressure Ukraine to open an investigation damaging to his political rival Joe Biden, suggesting that America has made up its mind on the President.

A Nov 17-20 Emerson National poll - after four days of public hearings - found that 43 per cent back impeachment, down from 48 per cent in October.

The biggest swing came from independent voters with 49 per cent now opposing impeachment, up from 34 per cent in October.

It also noted that 69 per cent of those polled have been watching or following the hearing.

The Emerson poll suggests the impeachment inquiry may have bolstered Mr Trump's position, with his approval rating up from 43 per cent last month to 48 per cent.

"The impeachment at this point isn't having any effect because it's not moving independents or Republicans against Trump," said Fordham University political scientist Monika McDermott at a briefing about the polling results.

"If something this major can't shake the core of support that he has, then I don't see anything really able to do that. So I don't see impeachment as really having any kind of lasting impact on the elections."

The findings supported another national tracking poll released by Morning Consult and Politico last Tuesday, after the hearings had started. It found that 46 per cent of independents opposed impeaching Mr Trump and removing him from office compared with 39 per cent who supported it.

A third poll - by Marquette Law School and released a day later - found that 53 per cent of voters in the swing state of Wisconsin felt the President should not be impeached compared with 40 per cent who thought he should.

With the public hearings having wrapped up on Thursday, Democrats are now deciding whether and how to draw up articles of impeachment, which the House would then have to vote on.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi said her party would not wait for the courts to decide whether to grant subpoenas of other key witnesses, calling the strategy vulnerable to stonewalling from Republicans.

If the House votes to impeach, the next step will be a Senate trial to convict or acquit the President.

Mr Trump told Fox News on Friday that he would welcome a trial.

Professor McDermott noted: "His supporters... just believe this is a witch hunt, and the Democrats are just out to get Trump and not actually prosecuting what is a valid case.

"As long as they continue to believe that, there's no reason for them to change their views or their support of Trump.

"They feel as though he's being unfairly prosecuted."
-->

  

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handle
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Sun Nov-24-19 02:36 PM

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191. "Insanity"
In response to Reply # 190


          

Fuck these polls - do the right thing.

------------
My prayers have been answered!

Gone
My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Vex_id
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192. "he's going to be impeached by the House"
In response to Reply # 191


          

and then the Senate is not going to do anything about it and he'll serve out the rest of the term. Then, we deal with the aftermath of this process and how it will affect the 2020 elections, if at all.

Impeachment should've been launched three years ago. There have been dozens of impeachable offenses by this President - many of which have been far more egregious than this Ukraine call. I just question the wisdom of launching impeachment right now prior to the elections instead of building the energy and momentum to soundly defeat Trump in the ballot box.
-->

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Nov-25-19 10:02 AM

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201. "Yea I'm with you - I think it was a huge mistake limiting the scope ..."
In response to Reply # 192


          

... of the impeachment probe to just the Ukraine call/situation. I've said that from the beginning. Articles could be 20,000 pages long.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Vex_id
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Mon Nov-25-19 10:10 AM

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202. "Absolutely:"
In response to Reply # 201


          

>... of the impeachment probe to just the Ukraine
>call/situation. I've said that from the beginning. Articles
>could be 20,000 pages long.

To have it so narrowly focused is bizarre. If you're going to launch impeachment - go all in for it. I think it really undermines the strength of the case against Trump to have this selective outrage over the Ukraine call (and to have the Biden clouding the proceedings). There have been dozens of instances where they can go after Trump and impeach him - and most of them are uncluttered with political rival (Biden) baggage.

These unforced errors are costly and unnecessary.


-->

  

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godleeluv
Member since Jun 11th 2013
5764 posts
Mon Nov-25-19 01:15 PM

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208. "This is what I said. Nothing will happen and he will be reelected"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          


... "A Beautiful Struggle"
https://m.facebook.com/jamelabullock
Www.reverbnation.com/jamela

MELa
Musically.Entertaining.Lyrically.Alluring.

  

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Walleye
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Sun Nov-24-19 03:53 PM

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193. "Smart people: there are two kinds of voters"
In response to Reply # 190


          

"independents or Republicans"

>"The impeachment at this point isn't having any effect because
>it's not moving independents or Republicans against Trump,"
>said Fordham University political scientist Monika McDermott
>at a briefing about the polling results.

I would be embarrassed at attaching my name, field, and institution to analysis like this. And I'm a nobody, in an even less rigorous field, who is an adjunct mercenary and doesn't even have an institution so much as a bare desk in one of the three places that pay me.

But for real, the above isn't thoughtful. Nor is implicitly accepting notion that there is *any* way of criticizing Trump that would be seen as legitimate by Republicans.

I still wish the Dems had focused more firmly on the obvious crime of enriching himself with public funds though. The Ukraine thing is clearer than the Russia thing, but double dipping by charging taxpayers so the secret service can do their job at his real estate holdings is the sort of person that anybody who's ever checked to see if the coast is clear before they pocketed some non-dairy creamer can get behind.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3641 posts
Sun Nov-24-19 07:17 PM

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196. "It’s insane that they limited things to Ukraine"
In response to Reply # 193


          

>"independents or Republicans"
>
>>"The impeachment at this point isn't having any effect
>because
>>it's not moving independents or Republicans against Trump,"
>>said Fordham University political scientist Monika McDermott
>>at a briefing about the polling results.
>
>I would be embarrassed at attaching my name, field, and
>institution to analysis like this. And I'm a nobody, in an
>even less rigorous field, who is an adjunct mercenary and
>doesn't even have an institution so much as a bare desk in one
>of the three places that pay me.
>
>But for real, the above isn't thoughtful. Nor is implicitly
>accepting notion that there is *any* way of criticizing Trump
>that would be seen as legitimate by Republicans.
>
>I still wish the Dems had focused more firmly on the obvious
>crime of enriching himself with public funds though. The
>Ukraine thing is clearer than the Russia thing, but double
>dipping by charging taxpayers so the secret service can do
>their job at his real estate holdings is the sort of person
>that anybody who's ever checked to see if the coast is clear
>before they pocketed some non-dairy creamer can get behind.
>

Democrats being typically timid, they tied their hands.

Ukraine. Enriching himself. Obstructing justice in
Mueller investigation. All of it.

This desire to rush through it and make it “easier to
understand” is a fucking huge mistake.

They should have piled on. Make senators like
Collins pick a side on all of it- not just Ukraine.

“Inappropriate but not impeachable” will be everywhere
for months now.

Why the fuck did they limit themselves?

I read a tweet that said it kind of makes it look like
Dems didn’t care about anything until Biden’s name
came up.

I wouldn’t go that far, but they sure left the door
open for that argument.



  

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makaveli
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Sun Nov-24-19 07:08 PM

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195. "where is this article from?"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5714 posts
Sun Nov-24-19 07:51 PM

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197. "^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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Vex_id
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Mon Nov-25-19 09:16 AM

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200. "It's sourced from Emerson, Politico, Morning Consult etc.."
In response to Reply # 195


          

You'll probably see this referenced in AP news wires - I think The Times (London) ran this as well.

Are you disputing the veracity of the polling data?
-->

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
3556 posts
Sun Nov-24-19 08:10 PM

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198. "Same question as #195"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          



If these are the links why leave them out ?


https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/poll-shows-impeachment-probe-strengthening-trumps-position

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Sun Nov-24-19 08:37 PM

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199. "Yeah I was scratching my head at The Straits Times"
In response to Reply # 198


          


And the 48% approval numbers. Has Trump ever
been at 48%?

Maybe he just forgot to include the links.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Nov-25-19 03:45 PM

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"Drumf is at 44% approval rating on Rasmussen right today"


  

          

That’s the poll that he’s always trumpeting and skews right.

Polls that Drumf is referencing today saying impeachment approval is “falling like a stone” or in the mid 20s don’t actually exist.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
42460 posts
Mon Nov-25-19 03:45 PM

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209. "Drumf is at 44% approval rating on Rasmussen right today"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

That’s the poll that he’s always trumpeting and skews right.

Polls that Drumf is referencing today saying impeachment approval is “falling like a stone” or in the mid 20s don’t actually exist.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Vex_id
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Mon Nov-25-19 10:40 AM

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203. "RE: Same question as #195"
In response to Reply # 198


          

Multiple sources have cited the data.

This is from The Hill as of this morning:

----

An impeachment vote in the House seems inevitable, but it does not appear that any GOP lawmakers will back an article of impeachment. And it remains to be seen whether voters will support the Democratic action or punish the party for going forward with impeachment.

“There’s always a disconnect between Washington and what people are thinking out in the states,” said Dick Harpootlian, the former chairman of the South Carolina Democratic Party and a surrogate for former Joe Biden’s presidential campaign.

And Democrats have some worries about impeachment fatigue.

“After three years, the country was sick of hearing about Russia, and now the average American either doesn’t understand or doesn’t care about the case we’re making on Ukraine,” said one Democratic fundraiser.

According to the FiveThirtyEight average of national polls, support for impeachment has shrunk from 50.3 percent in mid-October to 46.3 percent presently, while opposition has risen from 43.8 percent to 45.6 percent.

Among independents in the FiveThirtyEight average, support for impeachment topped out at 47.7 percent in late October but has sunk to 41 percent over the past three weeks.

YouGov is among the polls registering that decline, with independent support for impeachment dropping from 39 percent earlier this month to 35 percent now and opposition increasing from 35 percent to 40 percent.

An Emerson University survey found an even more extreme flip among independents.

In October, independents supported impeachment 48 percent to 35 percent in Emerson’s polling. In the new poll released this week, independents opposed it by a 49 percent to 34 percent margin. In that time, overall support for impeaching Trump swung from 48 percent in favor and 44 percent against to 45 percent in opposition to impeachment and 43 percent in favor.

The latest Morning Consult survey was the third poll released this week to register a flip among independents. That survey also registered a new low among all voters in favor of impeachment at 48 percent.

But perhaps most alarming for Democrats is a new survey of Wisconsin from Marquette University. In Wisconsin, a key swing state in next year’s election, Marquette found that 40 percent supported impeaching Trump and removing him from office, while 53 percent opposed it. In October, before the hearings began, support was at 44 percent and opposition was at 51 percent.

The Marquette survey found Trump leading in Wisconsin against three top Democratic challengers after trailing all of them in the previous poll.

Support for impeachment among Republicans and independents in the survey was mostly steady, but support among Democrats dropped by 7 points.

Marquette pollster Charles Franklin described the shift as modest and said it could be driven by voters viewing impeachment as an extreme measure. Franklin said that when former Gov. Scott Walker (R) was being recalled in Wisconsin, even some Democrats who despised Walker were conflicted about the recall effort and viewed it as an overreach.

“It was surprising to find that Democrats are a little less supportive of impeachment now. They appear a little less unified in their opposition,” Franklin said. “It moves the race from being a small Democratic lead that was mostly inside the margin of error to a small Trump lead that is mostly inside the margin of error and basically reaffirms Wisconsin’s status as a battleground state.”

The Marquette survey follows a New York Times–Siena College poll that found majorities in the key swing states of Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Arizona and Florida oppose removing the president from office through impeachment. Majorities or pluralities do support an investigation of Trump, however.

-->

  

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makaveli
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Mon Nov-25-19 11:19 AM

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204. "The Hill employs John Solomon"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

forgive me for being skeptical. Also, I'm not really familiar about the Straights Times of Singapore. Do you read them often?

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
5714 posts
Mon Nov-25-19 11:32 AM

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205. "sees it"
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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Vex_id
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Mon Nov-25-19 11:33 AM

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206. "Oh ok - so you're not disputing the actual polling data"
In response to Reply # 204


          

Bet.

-->

  

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makaveli
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Mon Nov-25-19 08:20 PM

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210. "oh lookie Emerson says Trump has 34.5% of black voters"
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

That doesn’t sound like a huge pile of bullshit at all.

https://twitter.com/alx/status/1198643746696572928?s=21

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Walleye
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Tue Nov-26-19 08:34 AM

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211. "I'm trying to track back what's happened here"
In response to Reply # 210


          

1. Vex cites a news article regarding a poll from Emerson, a group that at the very least is generally regarded as pretty mainstream.

2. Though the article he quoted came from a kind of obscure source, the Emerson poll on impeachment been reported in number of spots, including Emerson's own site: http://emersonpolling.com/2019/11/21/november-national-poll-support-for-impeachment-declines-biden-and-sanders-lead-democratic-primary/

3. However, because this seems like good news for the President, it's also been picked up by a number of conservative leaning spots like NYPost and The Hill

4. In an effort to demonstrate that our man Vex has linked something from a ritually impure spot, you appear to have put up a twitter post from a private citizen who works for Turning Point USA who is purporting to use the same poll to demonstrate that Trump is scoring very positive numbers among black voters

5. This person, challenged on his post, linked to the same piece on Emerson's own site, which does in fact affirm their numbers for impeachment polling but which does not feature anywhere, at any time, approval numbers for Trump among black voters

It's possible I've omitted a step here or misunderstood a component of somebody's argument, but this was getting incredibly weird and it seemed worth reviewing.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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makaveli
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Tue Nov-26-19 09:45 AM

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212. "not sure what part you find weird"
In response to Reply # 211


  

          

i don't trust these polls, they seem like clickbait to me. you may believe that Trump has 34.5% of the black vote, I do not. I don't know anything about the Singapore news source, but to me The Hill is Fox dressed up as real news. Usually when people post an article, they link it, or at least say where the article is from, so I was really just curious to know where the article was from, which is something I like to know when reading an article.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Walleye
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Tue Nov-26-19 09:51 AM

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213. "There was no Trup-and-the-black-vote poll"
In response to Reply # 212


          

The guy made it up.

>i don't trust these polls, they seem like clickbait to me.
>you may believe that Trump has 34.5% of the black vote, I do
>not.

Not trusting polls is... whatever. But you didn't link to an untrustworthy poll - you linked to an untrustworthy human who was literally making up a poll to support his view. When pressed for support, he linked an article that had no mention of the poll he was citing. All that demonstrated was that he was a liar.

>I don't know anything about the Singapore news source,
>but to me The Hill is Fox dressed up as real news. Usually
>when people post an article, they link it, or at least say
>where the article is from, so I was really just curious to
>know where the article was from, which is something I like to
>know when reading an article.

Again, those aren't the folks who did the poll. Emerson did the poll. I linked to their press release on it. If you don't like the poll, then take it up with them.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
3556 posts
Tue Nov-26-19 03:28 PM

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218. "Meh"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

The folks who did the poll said

"The pollster warns that results for subsets of voters have a higher margin of error than the 2.9 percentage points the poll has as a whole. For black voters, the margin is 8.3 percent, according to Spencer Kimball, assistant professor at Emerson College who oversees the polling."

https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-approval-among-blacks-above-34-percent-emerson-polls-shows_3155737.html


>The guy made it up.
>
>>i don't trust these polls, they seem like clickbait to me.
>>you may believe that Trump has 34.5% of the black vote, I do
>>not.
>
>Not trusting polls is... whatever. But you didn't link to an
>untrustworthy poll - you linked to an untrustworthy human who
>was literally making up a poll to support his view. When
>pressed for support, he linked an article that had no mention
>of the poll he was citing. All that demonstrated was that he
>was a liar.
>
>>I don't know anything about the Singapore news source,
>>but to me The Hill is Fox dressed up as real news. Usually
>>when people post an article, they link it, or at least say
>>where the article is from, so I was really just curious to
>>know where the article was from, which is something I like
>to
>>know when reading an article.
>
>Again, those aren't the folks who did the poll. Emerson did
>the poll. I linked to their press release on it. If you don't
>like the poll, then take it up with them.

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Walleye
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Tue Nov-26-19 05:08 PM

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219. "That article also links to polls that don't say that"
In response to Reply # 218


          

I feel like I'm losing my mind, but that article cites Emerson polls and discusses them at length with somebody who conducts those polls. When the citations link to Emerson's cite, they go to the following two articles:

https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/october-national-poll-biden-sanders-warren-maintain-front-runner-status-in-democratic-primary

https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/november-national-poll-support-for-impeachment-declines-biden-and-sanders-lead-democratic-primary

I'm ready to make all kind of concessions that I read too fast or skipped over something important, but I haven't yet found anything in those articles about Trump's support among black voters. Like, I'm not saying that somebody is spinning poll data. I'm saying those two articles are about different polls entirely.

Not even arguing at this point. Just want somebody to show me the actual poll that keeps getting cited because it's getting weird.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Wed Nov-27-19 11:50 AM

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221. "This is not that hard"
In response to Reply # 219


  

          

>I feel like I'm losing my mind, but that article cites
>Emerson polls and discusses them at length with somebody who
>conducts those polls. When the citations link to Emerson's
>cite, they go to the following two articles:
>

Nothing here that should make you lose your mind.

>https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/october-national-poll-biden-sanders-warren-maintain-front-runner-status-in-democratic-primary
>
>https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/november-national-poll-support-for-impeachment-declines-biden-and-sanders-lead-democratic-primary
>
>I'm ready to make all kind of concessions that I read too fast
>or skipped over something important, but I haven't yet found
>anything in those articles about Trump's support among black
>voters. Like, I'm not saying that somebody is spinning poll
>data. I'm saying those two articles are about different polls
>entirely.
>

Starting with the second link in your reply.

If you you scroll down the page and look on the right side you will come to the word "Files" underlined. Beneath that word is Full Results and download. which means you can look at the questions and percentages of those who answered and how they answered. It's the poll.

Scroll down to the bottom of the page and you will see Caller ID with "The National Emerson College poll was conducted November 17-20, 2019 under the Supervision of Assistant Professor Spencer Kimball. The sample consisted of registered voters, n=1,092, with a Credibility Interval (CI) similar to a poll’s margin of error (MOE) of +/- 2.9 percentage points...It is important to remember that subsets based on gender, age, party breakdown, ethnicity and region carry with them higher margins of error, as the sample size is reduced."


>Not even arguing at this point. Just want somebody to show me
>the actual poll that keeps getting cited because it's getting
>weird.

Here is guy on twitter talking about it.

https://twitter.com/v_theclash/status/1199449880072261632

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Vex_id
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Tue Nov-26-19 09:52 AM

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214. "It's par for the course, unfortunately. "
In response to Reply # 211


          

Dude doesn't want to deal with the substantive merits of the discussion so he throws out some obtuse point that nobody is making (the purported 34.5% black support for Trump) to try and deflect.

He also would have you think that Krystal Ball, Aaron Mate & Glenn Greenwald are "conservative-leaning" lol. Again, a deflective attempt to not deal w/ the actual point/data being discussed.

-->

  

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makaveli
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Tue Nov-26-19 09:59 AM

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216. "I don't think Greenwald is conservative"
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

but i do think he is trash, you can keep reading him if you like.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Vex_id
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Tue Nov-26-19 10:08 AM

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217. "oh no doubt"
In response to Reply # 216


          

>but i do think he is trash, you can keep reading him if you
>like.

I tend to read Pulitzer Prize winning journalists over establishment-slobbering corporate pundits --- but hey - do you.

-->

  

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Soldado
Member since Apr 13th 2006
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Thu Dec-05-19 11:03 AM

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235. "fox news loves greenwald. the hill loves ball."
In response to Reply # 216


  

          

and aaron mate regularly runs hit pieces on democrats for the partisan 'investigative' side of realclearpolitics.

thats all you need to know.

---
bka Reeq.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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Thu Dec-05-19 12:44 PM

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240. "Yeeerrrrrr"
In response to Reply # 235


  

          

B-b-but how can the right love people on the left??!

"How you not a sell-out if a sell-out spits a rhyme and you enjoy it?"
KRS-ONE

"The way that you control a motherfucker that ain't don't nothing is you give them something. Then you hold it over their heads."
Patrice O'Neal

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Dec-05-19 01:14 PM

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243. "the inability to throw a flag and call out corruption (even if it's Dems..."
In response to Reply # 235


          

is incredibly dangerous. It makes us stronger to have whistle-blowers, pulitzer prize journalists, and politicians within the progressive/democratic sphere have the guts to call out their own when necessary - and unfortunately it's been necessary far too often over the past 4 years.

-->

  

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eclipsedInI
Member since Jul 29th 2002
92567 posts
Tue Nov-26-19 09:59 AM

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215. "LMAO!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 210


          

_____________________
puttin' the roota in the toota since 98'

  

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Walleye
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Sun Nov-24-19 06:07 PM

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194. "nothing is true (but there are tapes anyhow)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

If you had "we suck so badly at crimes that it's not possible that we were trying to do crimes" as the GOP's eventual default defense, things are looking promising for you.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-intelligen