2. "I was about to come in guns blazing protecting the home boy." In response to Reply # 1
then I clicked on the link and my dude was wearing a sleeping bag dress.
Without reading the article I definitely think masculinity has shifted alot.
I think about hearing older men, white and black, talk about Barack Obama being soft which is funny coming from white dudes who think John Wayne is the Ideal of masculinity. John Wayne wouldnt' have the balls to go door to door doing community activism in the southside of Chicago.
Then I think about how Rap Music has gone from Jay-Z's Big Pimpin to Jay-Z's 4:41.
But over the years there have been Black men who bent gender - Little Richard, Prince, Rick James (I think). I don't plan on wearing a dress anytime soon, but I guess the difference now is that people get less attention for being gender non-conforming. Which is a good thing. Men feeling comfortable in their own skin can only be a good thing.
In the same light, The Rock is the biggest (or one of the...) biggest movie stars, the most high-profile celebrities are Black athletes playing sports where aggressiveness is encouraged, and the Black church is still a big deal. (I'm not judging any of these for being factual.) Traditional masculinity isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
26. "i think the idea is that there's more avenues" In response to Reply # 6
>But over the years there have been Black men who bent gender >- Little Richard, Prince, Rick James (I think). I don't plan >on wearing a dress anytime soon, but I guess the difference >now is that people get less attention for being gender >non-conforming. Which is a good thing. Men feeling comfortable >in their own skin can only be a good thing. > >In the same light, The Rock is the biggest (or one of the...) >biggest movie stars, the most high-profile celebrities are >Black athletes playing sports where aggressiveness is >encouraged, and the Black church is still a big deal. (I'm not >judging any of these for being factual.) Traditional >masculinity isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
9. "why cant men embrace femininity without reframing it as masculinity?" In response to Reply # 0
isnt the best way to recognize and respect femininity to treat it as a wholly distinct but equally humane/worthy force (like blackness)?
rebranding femininity as the 'new masculine' is co-opting/appropriating some of the cultural/historical cues that have given women their unequivocal/unmistakable/unambiguous power and identity.
youre kind of saying 'men now own this too' about traits and behaviors that women have largely solely championed and fought to be normalized/integrated/beloved.
imagine someone saying the 'new white' is soul food and dudu osun soap lol.
13. "RE: why cant men embrace femininity without reframing it as masculinity?" In response to Reply # 9 Tue Oct-15-19 09:53 AM by double 0
How is mental and "spiritual" health, letting go of the ego, empathy, and destroying old ideas about masculinity in any way feminine?
Cuz he saw a dope Chanel belt or some sunglasses and wanted to wear them?
re: The gown in the cover
"When I saw the look, I didn't question it. I still don't know if it's unisex or not. All I knew was, it's going to look amazing, and I think that's the new masculinity. Having the willingness to just be. Just live and let live. I mean, how fucking insecure must you be, as a human being, that because you are uncomfortable with doing something, somebody else shouldn't be able to do it? I don't accept that. That's unacceptable to me." - Pharrell
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
14. "Because these nu-males bristle at "feminine" & "effeminate" " In response to Reply # 9
Call them that and they call you a self-hating MAGA supporter or some shit.
These nu-males will never call themselves "feminine" or "effeminate" because they don't have respect for the feminine, which is why they deny the reality of different sexes having different outlooks on the world. Everything to them is a version of masculinity, including how they expect women to behave.
34. "The original intro/interview wasn't just talking about fashion" In response to Reply # 33
The original linked intro by the GQ editor/Pharell's interview talk about changing views on a broad range of topics like sexual violence/intimidation, sexual discrimination in the work place and fashion and presenting that as new/evolved masculinity.
GQ/Pharrell seem to be presenting these new mindstates as a positive change (people generally don't publicly announce that they think their Outlook on life has gotten WORSE than it was before)
If Reeq is referring strictly to clothing when he says Men should embrace elements of Feminity that's less controversial (although I'm sure somebody would still find a way to get mad about that) and I did address that in my original post.
If he's referring to the other stuff as being part of embracing Feminity that would probably not go over well
R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 86672 posts
Thu Oct-17-19 12:08 PM
30. "yeah, that one turn of phrase definitely is an eyebrow-raiser." In response to Reply # 9
I have no problem with the exploration of how preconceived notions of masculinity are changing-- which appeared to be the magazine's goal, and it's a very worthy one-- but giving it a pithy label like "The New Masculinity" definitely gives off the scent of co-opting and doesn't help their goal.
32. "because calling a man feminine or effeminate is still considered a diss" In response to Reply # 9
I'm still guilty of that, to a degree, I think.
Saying a man is feminine is still viewed by many as a derogatory statement.
I'd say it's easier to push back against that by labeling those traits/styles as another, different form of masculinity, tha. To simply accept it as feminine.
So to that end I'd say it's still rooted, to a degree, within toxic masculinity, in much the same way as chivalry is largely rooted in patriarchal sentiments.
True progress would be for everyone to be able to view a man with feminine traits, recognize and understand it as such, and not look twice. But we're not there yet, so reframing it as some other form of masculinity it is.
I'm sure there are some holes in there, but those are my immediate thoughts.
48. "Yea I'm guilty of this as well for sure." In response to Reply # 32
>I'm still guilty of that, to a degree, I think. > >Saying a man is feminine is still viewed by many as a >derogatory statement. > >I'd say it's easier to push back against that by labeling >those traits/styles as another, different form of masculinity, >tha. To simply accept it as feminine. > >So to that end I'd say it's still rooted, to a degree, within >toxic masculinity, in much the same way as chivalry is largely >rooted in patriarchal sentiments. > >True progress would be for everyone to be able to view a man >with feminine traits, recognize and understand it as such, and >not look twice. But we're not there yet, so reframing it as >some other form of masculinity it is. > >I'm sure there are some holes in there, but those are my >immediate thoughts.
But it could even be argued that labeling them "masculine traits" and "feminine traits" is an outdated social construct right ? So shit. What do we do lol.
41. "I think you could give this argument alot more weight/validity" In response to Reply # 9
If you were specific about what these "cultural/historical cues" are. I can't help but think that almost everyone who's reading this is having different ideas of exactly what those are... and that's aside from the fact that what's considered masculine or feminine is going to differ from person to person. If those two things were concretely defined and/or listed, you might be on to something here.
>rebranding femininity as the 'new masculine' is >co-opting/appropriating some of the cultural/historical cues >that have given women their >unequivocal/unmistakable/unambiguous power and identity.
17. "his connection between consumerism, advertising and spiritual warfare" In response to Reply # 0
is interesting to read, although not so explicitly stated as such, he clearly sees that his identity and persona as a purveyor and participant in hiphop culture of the 80s/90s/00s was part of marketing a certain brand of manhood.
America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Tue Oct-15-19 12:26 PM
22. "Make some original new music nigga " In response to Reply # 0
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
38. "bruh. Try putting Latin men in dresses, and telling those communities to..." In response to Reply # 37
"redefine" their masculinities 60x a year, lol This shit is obviously targeting the Black community and it's kinda wild that people run from pattern recognition the way that they do
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
46. "Latino communities control their public image" In response to Reply # 37
Black communities let white people run wild with us. We are still animals, objects and playthings to white mass media machines.
Our influence is our currency and we give it away at a cost that really obliterates black identity.
Latinos are so solid in what family means and looks like to them. No matter how poor or how hard, the males support and stand by their families in private and public sphere.
>doing the same thing. > >Why does masculinity always have to be reframed in my >community? > >Reframing masculinity is not going to fix the fact our total >wealth amounts to $3 trillion with 10% of the upper class >owning that wealth. > >It feels like we're pushed towards another distraction and >used as mascots for another agenda.
Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg http://www.Tupreme.com
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