My homeboy is deep into the ADOS movement. For a good year we've been arguing about their ridiculous plan of action and its feasibility unlikelihood. Last night we had a conversation about a conference they recently had at a smaller HBCU, Simmons College. https://www.eventbrite.com/e/inaugural-ados-conference-americandos-ados-tickets-56084406971# Beyond costing the least, to attend, of any similar conference I've seen ($15), he explained their takeaways were that they've partially changed their action plan. Instead of urging people not to vote, they're directing each other to vote, especially in down ballot elections. For the presidential election, their answer is to write in "ADOS" if the DEM candidate doesn't address their wants. With the intention that in the wake of a loss the "ADOS" write-in tabulation will demonstrate their collective voting might. The other change, instead of shunning and angrily being disgusted by legacy black orgs, like the NAACP and the Urban League, join them (it's inexpensive https://i.ibb.co/qCnRXXP/UL.jpg) and change them from within. They used the lone Urban League chapter to outwardly support Byron Allen and his lawsuit. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/los-angeles-urban-league-urges-the-us-supreme-court-to-protect-the-civil-rights-act-of-1866-300908999.html
My point, these two issues have been the overarching part of my argument with him all this time, how the plan isn't designed to succeed. Now, I believe the ADOS movement's plan positions them far better than before.
i seriously cant believe people are still this idiotic after the last election and the consequences we have witnessed (and are still witnessing).
if repubs win in 2020...they get control of redistricting for an entire decade (at least) along with possibly 2 more right wing extremist supreme court seats and a completely unchained donald trump (even more than now). say goodbye to civil rights, voting rights, water/air protections, etc. complete theocratic/corporate conservative minority rule for an entire generation, if not permanently.
seriously way too many people in this country are too dumb for democracy. smart dumb niggas are almost just as damaging as trump supporters. it sucks that the rest of us have to suffer for their decisions.
You're right about Eddie Glaude, but his reach is Princeton students (the ones who take his classes) his talking head appearances and maybe readers of his book or the few op-eds...which certainly happened far less frequently in 2016 vs. now.
The ADOS movement had, up until that conference, been encouraging people not to vote at all. Which most interpreted as not even the down ballot. Which is exactly what happened in 2016, despite your claim of Glaude's directive to vote down ballot while not voting for Clinton.
It's not about innovation or who suggested it first, none of these ideas are original, it's simply a more realistic strategy to achieve their goal.
If repubs win (the presidential election) in 2020? Down ballots matter, there are far more meaningful elections in our government for people's everyday lives...look at what the state of California did in the month of September for example. Beyond Supreme Court picks--and RBG (who's had 1 Black clerk her entire career) should have retired in 44's first term--everything else you suggest will end need more than Donald Trump to fail. His entire administration is already imploding on it's own. Aside for having to deal with more emboldened racists, suffering through hearing his name and ridiculous news events everyday, and slightly higher taxes, how has his presidency actually made your life worse?
It's not about people being too dumb for democracy, it's about democracy not working for them when it's supposed to.
seasoned vet Member since Jul 29th 2008 6029 posts
Thu Oct-10-19 11:07 AM
19. "^^^!!! ZERO lies detected" In response to Reply # 1
when i was younger i always thought the older folks that watched politics really understood that shit.
it wasnt until i got older that i seen most folks dont understand politics at all, and they have VERY short memories when it comes to politics, policy, and how we got here.
something could of happened just last election cycle, was big in the news for months, have a conversation with someone over 50 that claims to know politics and its like the movie Clean Slate.
58. "...and the dems under clinton and obama gave us" In response to Reply # 1
literally genocidal policies that are very much in keeping with Republican initiatives. OMG TRUMP!!!!! is a hard hard sell after the Clinton and Obama administrations They are all white supremacists, greedy bitches.
2. "Some Institutions Have Been Around for a long time for a Reason" In response to Reply # 0
I've seen it play out before, an organization is not seen as progressive enough, like the NAACP or an Arts Organization, so people stake out on their own to form a new more progressive or radical organization.
But as soon as they step out on their own they realize that running an organization is a lot of work and requires a lot of boring administrative and practical stuff that needs to be done including defining the vision in concrete terms. That's when in-fighting kicks in and shit fizzles out.
New Blood joining existing organizations is a great idea. They can change up the status quo and the new blood learns boring stuff like fundraising and what it takes to keep a lot of people happy.
And after a while they become the old blood that a new generation comes and find not progressive and radical enough and the cycle continues.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
A parallel for the pan-African movement. Stay here in America, home. Why leave, after building it's foundation and creating its culture and wealth, change it from within.
But because of state laws restricting ballot access, writing in a candidate is not as simple as it sounds.
——>There are eight states where ballots won’t even have a space for write-ins. In 32 others, write-in candidates have to file with the state prior to the election to be counted as official candidates.<———
That means that even if a write-in candidate wins the popular vote — an extremely unlikely scenario — their votes won’t be counted if the candidate hasn’t pre-registered.
——-> States often throw these write-in votes for unregistered candidates into an “All others” category and don’t tally them up individually.<——-
——- So completely non effective even in protest in 80% of the country Those other ten states: Vermont, New Hampshire, Wyoming, Iowa (all having STRONG ados presence I’m sure) PA, NJ, RI, MS, AL ... and DC
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
9. "To follow up on that " In response to Reply # 7
When they propose a plan of action that can so easily be debunked, what keeps people following the rest of the plan of action? And even worse, what keeps people then following any of their ideas.
I don’t at all agree with them, but from an organizational stand point, as they call themselves leaders they have an obligation to be more structured and researched.
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
17. "The idea of being water makes sense en masse" In response to Reply # 13
When you’re a small collective, you end up being a droplet All of this sounds like escapism. Folks feeling the weight of defeat but doing things to personally make themselves feel like they’re doing something Which most of us do in personal ways ... but ADOS seems more and like highbrow retweeting and sharing an article and feeling like you brought awareness because of that action.
------ “There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus
4. "unfortunately for them Black people aren't stupid" In response to Reply # 0
the 2 flaws in this resurgent call for reparations is one, the prioritization of reparations as the top issue for Black Americans, and second, the anti-immigration analysis that is the animating factor in Black American men to join the movement.
America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.
21. "No comparison, you seem blind in recognizing the Black church is..." In response to Reply # 20 Thu Oct-10-19 11:43 AM by Cam
Both. Conservatism and progressiveness cohabit regularly...in the Black church, to name one example.
A difference here is that the ADOS movement isn't working under a false guise, or anything except achieving reparations. Certainly not the progressiveness you're implying.
23. "Lol I ain't "imply" shit. I directly stated it." In response to Reply # 21
The "movement" lures lots of people with talk of reparations, a progressive position. But it is anything but. I'm not sure what the fuck you're reading in my responses about what I'm "blind" to, what I'm "implying..." I said what I said. You're really in your feelings about this one, bro bro.
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
26. "My comment relates to the version of progressiveness you imply" In response to Reply # 23
Progressiveness can be conservative. Your implication is that theirs is liberal. The word isn't exclusive to a specific political agenda. I was being clear about your language, which you now claim was directly stated. It wasn't.
I just browsed the ADOS info site, help me find these alleged liberally progressive lures, because I can't find them. https://ados101.com/about-ados
As for the Black church, yes it's both socially conservative and liberally progressive politically (in many cases, not including the Trump supporting pastors he parades). You asked me if I wanted to make that comparison, as if it's a combo that isn't effective...if ADOS was that and they aren't.
60. "this is patently false" In response to Reply # 21
> >A difference here is that the ADOS movement isn't working >under a false guise, or anything except achieving reparations. > Certainly not the progressiveness you're implying.
Reparations is the big get, but not the only goal, at all
73. "bruh, have you engaged in ANY of the content, directly, yourself?" In response to Reply # 72 Sun Oct-13-19 05:44 AM by kayru99
like any of the videos/essays by Moore, Carnell, Osei-Frimprong, Darrity or Hamilton, etc if you have, you'd know that as much as they push for outright reparations they also push for policies to address the specific needs for ADOS communities. Carnell had a video awhile back about hookworm in rural Alabama in the district of Rep Terri Sowell that was being ignored by the rep while Sowell was stumping for sanctuary cities. her district is overwhelmingly black, little immigrant presence, has third world living conditions, yet the rep isn't doing anything at all to push for resources to be allocated to her community. Carnell's video led to a phone drive and further media attention.
Moore openly and regularly advocates for the Black homeless in LA, and for working poor Black men. Frimprong goes hard for education and religious community reform for *white Americans* because they need to be reeducated on a massive level....etc, etc, etc.
24. "I contend that there is no 'posing'" In response to Reply # 10 Thu Oct-10-19 11:58 AM by Dr Claw
>ADOS is really some Black conservative shit posing as Black >progressive shit.
some of the "faces" of the movement have openly stated a conservative (in American context) political POV. definitely very capitalist, to say the least.
the problem is that in America, simply being antiracist (anti-phobic, etc) is seen as "progressive"
(meanwhile you can be all those things and still not be a true leftist (and the inverse) but that's not common)
37. "Is it conservative or a republican ruse?" In response to Reply # 10
Does Black conservative tradition even ask for reparations, especially with any top priority in their agenda?
Are Black Republicans smacking their anti immigrant rhetoric onto the reparations agenda?
Why are they on Twitter trying to make only Democrats comment on this issue?
It seems like black chauvinists who love the Republican "self made man" ethos are using it to secure their manhood and overcompensate for identity complexes
America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.
"the anti-immigration analysis that is the animating factor in Black American men" I think you're confused. Black folk (including men) in America have always been accepting of immigrants. You can't name an instance--at least--in any major American city, with large Black demographics, in which Black folk have strategically discriminated against or driven away any immigrant group who came to live among them. Black people are accepting.
Maybe you know something I don't, but anecdotally the handful of ADOS folk I know personally, minus one, are all married to immigrants or white people. The ADOS twitter arguments on immigration I see are people getting into it with immigrant black folk who disparage their movement. It's never a "go back to (whatever country)", even though they were just called an Akata, or dumb or stupid.
To call the reparations demand a flaw, that's their primary objective. You say resurgent, have reparations ever made it this far politically...not being issue number 1? Every candidate is talking about it and has at least some plan...even Donald Trump is hinting at something around the topic.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79605 posts
Thu Oct-10-19 12:22 PM
27. "ADOS married to white people? Close the piano. FOH" In response to Reply # 12
Nope. Nah Ney
Nothing chaps my as more than some blackity black niggas who marry white.
Stop overcompensating.
I hate those types.
Love who you love but stfu about race and how you down for the cause.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
38. "Man you are confused" In response to Reply # 12
Black men are the first to complain about immigrants competing with them for low skill jobs and bringing wages down. The anti immigrant strain is about the Black man being the last hired and first fired, least respected and most neglected. Black men competing with Black immigrants for spots at universities, for loans, for local small business loans in Black cities, for investment properties in Black neighborhoods. The movement is about the mistrust of Africans and Caribbeans in obtaining justice for 2 centuries of slavery. American descendants of slavery.
America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.
46. "complaining about ones own mistreatment is not being anti-immigrant" In response to Reply # 38
Black people do not tell immigrants to go home, just because. Immigrant rights--which makes the country so attractive that plenty of immigrant groups took advantage of them--were put in place by the efforts of...Black folk, almost singularly. How does that equal Back Men are anti immigrant? Because some may complain about a specific immigrant group brought in to union bust, or drive down their living wage, or disrespectful merchants who thrive in their community and give nothing back? I think you are confused as to what anti-immigrant means politically.
Name one anti-immigration policy that ADOS movement is demanding...i'll wait?
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79605 posts
Thu Oct-10-19 10:37 AM
8. "Write in ADOS? Nigga what? " In response to Reply # 0
I ain’t doing that.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79605 posts
Thu Oct-10-19 10:58 AM
16. "when I vote.. I VOTE!!! " In response to Reply # 14
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
seasoned vet Member since Jul 29th 2008 6029 posts
Thu Oct-10-19 10:59 AM
18. "writing in "ADOS" is just as dangerous" In response to Reply # 0
at least in the Trump political climate it is. this aint the time to be playing games with valuable votes to get him out of office.
i will never understand our cultures obsession with trying to force people to do what they dont want to do.
every solution we come up with is always some variation of getting everyone together, FIRST (something they dont want to do), and getting them to ALL do (something they dont want to do).
we have, right now, a population within our culture thats already doing what we keep trying to get those outside our mindset to do
this group is gainfully employed they have access to capital good credit understand economics practice GROUP economics
this group is already organized and have chapters across the country
instead of attempting to beat a river into submission, we could offer a needed service to them at a subsidized rate. invest whats obtained from them and use it to fund everything we need.
22. "Thanks for posting these updates from the conference. I was wondering " In response to Reply # 0 Thu Oct-10-19 11:51 AM by kfine
whether any okps went or could brief on what happened/what it was like. Are there links anywhere to videos/slides from some of the talks? I read feedback that the program and guest speakers were really good. And the pics I saw floating around looked like it was really well-produced/professionally done.
In terms of the consensus + action items you're relaying, I think I'm most happy to read about this:
It's obviously a long road ahead for the movement to gain the magnitude of support it needs to advance its agenda... but infiltrating existing networks and infrastructure - making "more" friends not less - is 100% the direction I hope things go for ADOS.
Because... ya. End of the day politics "is" a numbers game, and ADOS is a minority population in the US. So there's going to need to be some venture outside of ADOS and/or ADOS-identifying communities for buy-in from a broader swath of Americans to get (legislative, institutional) advancements over the finish line (and not just die in or before even getting to Congress)... however that coalition is pieced together.
>Now, I believe the ADOS movement's plan >positions them far better than before. > >Thoughts? >
I think I mostly agree with you. I haven't been keeping up lately, though. And the frequent anti-immigrant/anti-African rhetoric still saddens me a lot (as does its inverse, though I tend not to interact with the type of black people that are anti-Black American/ADOS and don't think they're as representative as people think). But ya. Full disclosure: I am not ADOS (black, daughter of Af immigrants). Enthusiastic supporter though. And I harbour zero anti-Black sentiment, no interest whatsoever in feigning beneficiary-status to defraud Black American/ADOS justice claims or restitutions, and just like to root for any and all black groups fighting against their oppression lol *thumbs up*
29. "I didn't go to the conference." In response to Reply # 22
The info I'm sharing is based upon second-hand info from a convo with my homeboy.
I agree with and support pushes for reparations, beyond that I'm not part of the ADOS movement. I know what my friends mention, what I've seen glancing at the website and things I can glean from contentious Twitter back-and-forths.
I see flaws in the movement but agree with the goal.
Your perspective is great. Beyond Fox News types, the most outraged objections to the movement I've seen are from those who wouldn't be eligible to receive reparations--as described (including in the post).
25. "the flaw with that is no one tallies the 'write-ins' like that" In response to Reply # 0 Thu Oct-10-19 12:11 PM by Dr Claw
the funny thing about all of this is that I absolutely agree with the notion that descendants of the Black people enslaved in the USA are an ethnicity unto themselves and that this specific ethnic group is targeted economically and otherwise to be the "floor" of the USA's unspoken caste system.
it's a major gaslight going on and you see it playing out even in sitcoms nowadays.
39. "literally everyone on that flyer is a fuckin loon and a con artist" In response to Reply # 36
those people know how to steal money and do nothing.
"astute politicos"
I guess, if you've never actually participated in politics they might seem like what you've seen on TV. But ask yourself which initiatives they've passed into law ever.
50. "RE: 'famed professor' Cornel West " In response to Reply # 44
Dr. West has been able to infiltrate the "IDW" space because of the Joe Rogan appearance tbh
And there was zero coonery in that interview he crushed it.. I honestly think he cracked some weird language code when talking to working-class white people. I've never seen so many young usually angry white dudes in the comments praising him... lol
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
40. "The flaws in the ADOS movement is their ahistorical" In response to Reply # 0
outlook.
You are going to petition to the same people who put you in your condition for reparations with NO LEVERAGE?
Calling yourselves American the same title as your oppressor who never intended for you or your descendants to be citizens and treats you as a 3rd class citizen is a fail.
Attacking a few petty immigrants who come here and jump on the yt people ice is color bandwagon such as actors and people who apply for college degrees as if they are taking positions that were never really designated for us is short sited and petty.
Claiming Pan Africanism doesn't work when it literally radicalized several countries on the continent to gain independence and totally omit that history is appalling for someone who is so heavily invested in research and data.
Saying do for self doesn't work(when it was the only thing that did work for us) claiming a separate identity but not looking to create institutions to not fall victim to the same corporation you want reparations from is politically short sited.
So with that, just addressing your first point, what leverage did the evangelical right have, which allowed them gain and retain all of the power they continue to wield?
Similar to the evangelical conservative base which the GOP rely upon. A difference, the GOP delivers on evangelical policy mandates while remaining unified to achieve those goals. Trump is pretending to be a Christian just to appease them specifically, and they pretend to believe him.
evangelicals really don't get any rewards unless they are rich.
Abortion laws and, things like health care are code words to make dumb poor racist white people vote against their best interest.
I do agree with making these parties earn our vote and creating our own political party. I honestly see no future for our people here so participating in national politics is kind of useless to me.
That old used up line all politics are local, what are the ordinances ,codes, laws that are being passed where we live, what are the grants, loans and contracts being passed out, how are they being given out, how can we impact and take advantage then rinse repeat that model.
seasoned vet Member since Jul 29th 2008 6029 posts
Fri Oct-11-19 04:49 PM
57. "at all. yet, suggesting such to them means you’re a coon" In response to Reply # 53
its beyond weird that the ADOS movement is clearly spawned from the ideas of Dr Claud Anderson, yet their foundation ignores his instructions on what we need to even attempt a demand of reparations
he says very clearly in many of his videos, YOU HAVE NO LEVERAGE. then goes into great detail as to what leverage is.
i disagree with what Jay Morrison suggests because its more of the same shit thats never worked but we can let it go. but thats a whole nother thread
56. "Not a conservative movement at all" In response to Reply # 0
just not a coastal, urban liberal/OKP-type movement. Trying to shoehorn everything into a modern American liberal/conservative axis is reductionist and stupid. ADOS community is the most loyal demo in the democratic party BY FAR, and the dems can't win shit without the ADOS vote. Yet the dems have decided to completely ignore the demo, on a federal level. Cool. Withhold the vote on the national level...that's the electoral leverage the Black community holds...so use it.
I think the flaw in that logic, is the fact that the dems that would rather lose to a Trump than move left, even for working class white people.
Also, illegal immigrant labor drives down wages for Black men, especially. That's just true. ESPECIALLY in the rural south & out west
61. "I don;t think its off at all" In response to Reply # 59
voting is an exchange. Quid pro quo. We are literally the only demo expected to vote for the good of everybody else, while demanding nothing, and getting nothing.
Personally? I think it's a necessary step to a different political program, altogether. And much MUCH better than the mealy mouthed NEVER TRUMP shit
67. "everybody expects that, especially the dems " In response to Reply # 65
the black community is the the most proLGBTQ, pro immigration, pro womans rights demo in America, BY FAR...even more, by proportion, then nonBlack people in those actual demos are. And those demos in America are all predictably antiBlack AF.
66. "the machine doesn't work for anyone the way it should, except the wealth..." In response to Reply # 63
Everybody just hates niggers enough to think that that being better than us is all that matters. ADOS positionality is primarily racial economic populism. It's the same as Malcolm, King, and the Panthers. Like them, ADOS positionality really dives into the role that we play as the floor of the racial shell game that the ruling class plays. Why should i use my vote to continue everyone else climbing over my community's corpse? Help me understand why Black people should vote for ANY candidate who can't even be bothered to *verbalize* how their candidacy will work for us? And who's policies are often actively AGAINST our interests? It really is basic politics.
70. "1. you ain't answer the question" In response to Reply # 68 Fri Oct-11-19 08:14 PM by kayru99
2. Claude Anderson has huuuuuge gaps in his theory, because it vastly underestimates the depth of Black poverty, and the size of the wealth gap. There is literally no way to close the wealth gap using "business" without massive governmental intervention 3. I've been in this political place since looong before ADOS existed 4. See #1 5. In order to fix a problem, you gotta acknowledge as real. You call it "complaining". I call you in denial.
74. "Another flaw in the ADOS movement" In response to Reply # 0
the ain't Pan African issue in more detail
Saying things like "they sold our ancestors" over simplifies an extremely complex issue.
If any of us in the Diaspora were to do a DNA test we would have ancestry from groups that more than likely were at war with each other.
Another method of building leverage is building relations with these nations that we have ancestry from and even the ones we don't. Push the issue of citizenship and land grants that is instantaneous leverage.
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