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Subject: "Bernie Sanders hospitalized with chest pain, campaign events canceled" Previous topic | Next topic
mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16415 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 09:58 AM

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"Bernie Sanders hospitalized with chest pain, campaign events canceled"


  

          

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-78-canceled-events-notice-hospitalized/story?id=66003850

Sen. Bernie Sanders, 78, was hospitalized in Las Vegas, Nevada.

"During a campaign event yesterday evening, Sen. Sanders experienced some chest discomfort. Following medical evaluation and testing he was found to have a blockage in one artery and two stents were successfully inserted. Sen. Sanders is conversing and in good spirits. He will be resting up over the next few days," said Sanders’ senior adviser Jeff Weaver on Wednesday in a statement. "We are canceling his events and appearances until further notice, and we will continue to provide appropriate updates.”

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
It’s over.
Oct 02nd 2019
1
No Bueno.
Oct 02nd 2019
2
he needs to quit. biden too.
Oct 02nd 2019
3
Dude's like a 41yo halfback with bad knees still trying...
Oct 02nd 2019
4
hope he's ok, picks a VP to his left and wins the nom
Oct 02nd 2019
5
RE: hope he's ok, picks a VP to his left and wins the nom
Oct 02nd 2019
6
"picks a VP to his left"? is there such a position?
Oct 02nd 2019
8
      sanders is a moderate leftist
Oct 02nd 2019
14
           and you actually think someone left of him will get him elected?
Oct 02nd 2019
19
           For the policies he's championing? Yeah
Oct 02nd 2019
47
           If people vote for that candidate, sure
Oct 03rd 2019
66
           Right. In Europe Bernie is a left-of-center politician.
Oct 03rd 2019
63
Bernie in a coma would still be the only good candidate
Oct 02nd 2019
7
oh no. prayers up.
Oct 02nd 2019
9
He'll be fine. It sounds like something pretty routine.
Oct 02nd 2019
10
100% agree
Oct 02nd 2019
12
its all the media is gonna ask him about now.
Oct 02nd 2019
13
if any of the older candidates win the nom. i do hope their vp is "young...
Oct 02nd 2019
16
      'i might die but my vp will survive'
Oct 02nd 2019
40
           kinda
Oct 02nd 2019
42
                one of a few major dividing lines on the left:
Oct 02nd 2019
54
This is definitely something that should push him out
Oct 02nd 2019
17
a couple stints... maybe routine(ish) but it's not minor
Oct 02nd 2019
18
right dude up there speaking like he's Bernie's doctor lol...
Oct 02nd 2019
20
Uh, if your doctor says "This sounds like something pretty routine,"
Oct 02nd 2019
22
      the point is your not HIS doctor you don't know he actually had done lol...
Oct 02nd 2019
23
           No I'm not his doctor. Thankfully he doesn't come to OKP for medical adv...
Oct 02nd 2019
27
                Bernie is a year older than my dad, I wouldn't consider ANY heart...
Oct 02nd 2019
32
                     ^^^^say it the fuck again. not playing at all.
Oct 02nd 2019
34
                     I don't know what kind of procedure you're envisioning,
Oct 02nd 2019
36
^Like,not minor at all.Chest pains followed by an emergency angioplasty?
Oct 02nd 2019
21
I didn't say it's minor. But yes, it is a very common procedure.
Oct 02nd 2019
25
      Bill looked like shit after surgery too
Oct 02nd 2019
26
      Yeah, if Bernie'd had quadruple bypass surgery,
Oct 02nd 2019
31
           except he literally is taking time off from the race to recover til furt...
Oct 02nd 2019
33
           Well, stents do have to be monitored for a while.
Oct 02nd 2019
35
                pretty sure recovery will be more than a week
Oct 02nd 2019
45
                Yes but it's also odd to focus almost exclusively on his stents and not
Oct 02nd 2019
50
                     sig worthy.. forget however you feel about it's context here
Oct 02nd 2019
55
           its the stress levels of being president that concern people
Oct 02nd 2019
38
      Heart disease is still the leading cause of death in the US ,though.
Oct 02nd 2019
29
      yep.. i wasn't debating as much as I was qualifying... nm
Oct 02nd 2019
30
Respect for saying this.
Oct 03rd 2019
61
Damn, I wish him well.
Oct 02nd 2019
11
that's rough
Oct 02nd 2019
15
Now that you mention this, what a double standard.
Oct 02nd 2019
24
      it was 9/11 tho... the worst day of the year to look weak af
Oct 02nd 2019
28
      Don't let bernie fans folks fool you. This is a bad look.
Oct 02nd 2019
39
           yup
Oct 02nd 2019
44
grievance politics on the left are so fucking weird lol.
Oct 02nd 2019
37
I kind of feel like Twitter needs a verified only version.
Oct 02nd 2019
41
people have full on rants in response to people who don't exist
Oct 02nd 2019
46
      See it DAILY.
Oct 08th 2019
79
I caught Bernie on Colbert and it reminded me
Oct 02nd 2019
43
      The thing is, he was already falling well behind Warren.
Oct 02nd 2019
48
      fair enough
Oct 02nd 2019
49
      his supporters really do him a disservice.
Oct 02nd 2019
56
Up and fighting for *all of us* already
Oct 02nd 2019
51
good stuff
Oct 02nd 2019
52
i was thinking about this:
Oct 02nd 2019
53
We're better off than in 2016
Oct 02nd 2019
57
      I very much disagree with this.
Oct 02nd 2019
59
      Let's hope
Oct 07th 2019
78
his steadfast commitment has been inspiring
Oct 03rd 2019
62
warren being classy as usual.
Oct 02nd 2019
58
It's simple
Oct 03rd 2019
67
ER doc weighs in on the facts + likelihood this was heart attack (link)
Oct 03rd 2019
60
And POLITICO found a doctor to say it wasn't a big deal
Oct 03rd 2019
64
all this speculation and poasting, and this is the net-result:
Oct 03rd 2019
65
      Before any of this happened his age should've been a concern for most...
Oct 03rd 2019
68
           Yet all of the top candidates over the past 4 years have been 70+
Oct 03rd 2019
69
                And I think that is a problem.
Oct 03rd 2019
70
                how many of them have had heart attacks?
Oct 04th 2019
72
Good news, Bernie will be at next debate!
Oct 03rd 2019
71
official diagnosis: bernie had a heart attack
Oct 04th 2019
73
He'll be out of the race by Super Tuesday.
Oct 04th 2019
75
      he raises too much money to bow out before then imo.
Oct 04th 2019
76
           the support bernie gets makes me think the polls are skewed
Oct 07th 2019
77
                Bernie's Corpse >>>> Trump
Oct 08th 2019
80
                Bernies support is a lot bigger than reported..
Oct 08th 2019
81
                Is it though?? lol.Sometimes I wonder if what's going on is the opposite
Oct 08th 2019
83
                you could be right
Oct 08th 2019
85
                     I hear ya.
Oct 08th 2019
86
                     dont forget bernie began the race with a national action network
Oct 08th 2019
89
                its most likely not.
Oct 08th 2019
87
                Polls correct for this.
Oct 08th 2019
90
                He definitely has financial support.
Oct 08th 2019
82
                     Bernie supporters are actually Warren's weakest source of 2ndary support...
Oct 08th 2019
84
.
Oct 04th 2019
74
the media is treating this a lot differently than clintons pneumonia.
Oct 08th 2019
88
Prolly cause it was the general election when Hilldawg fainted
Oct 09th 2019
92
      That and Bernie wasn't having weird seizures on camera...
Oct 09th 2019
94
A deep dive into the Bernie coalition
Oct 09th 2019
91
RE: A deep dive into the Bernie coalition
Oct 09th 2019
93
Watch this and tell me the media is fair with Bernie...
Oct 10th 2019
95

legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79620 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 10:00 AM

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1. "It’s over. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49426 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 10:03 AM

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2. "No Bueno. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85077 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 10:08 AM

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3. "he needs to quit. biden too."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13575 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 10:09 AM

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4. "Dude's like a 41yo halfback with bad knees still trying..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Oct-02-19 10:09 AM by flipnile

          

...to make the league.

Ain't gonna make it through a full season. Might not even make it through training camp.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 10:09 AM

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5. "hope he's ok, picks a VP to his left and wins the nom"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
315 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 10:17 AM

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6. "RE: hope he's ok, picks a VP to his left and wins the nom"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Yes! Think he should declare Nina Turner as his VP before the next debate and take the gloves off against his opponents.

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 10:32 AM

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8. ""picks a VP to his left"? is there such a position?"
In response to Reply # 5


          

>

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 11:39 AM

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14. "sanders is a moderate leftist"
In response to Reply # 8


          

American politics just shifted hard, hard right after the Clintons made the Democrats Reagan republicans.
There's a TON of space to Bernie's left

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Oct-02-19 01:36 PM

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19. "and you actually think someone left of him will get him elected?"
In response to Reply # 14


          

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 03:31 PM

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47. "For the policies he's championing? Yeah"
In response to Reply # 19
Wed Oct-02-19 03:37 PM by kayru99

          

Don't think it would hurt

  

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Walleye
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15523 posts
Thu Oct-03-19 08:49 AM

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66. "If people vote for that candidate, sure"
In response to Reply # 19


          

The emphasis we've placed on electoralism as the sole mechanism for political expression has done a really thorough job of alienating us from politics. It's some absolutely grim shit when people even feel alienated from vote outcomes.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Vex_id
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65616 posts
Thu Oct-03-19 08:39 AM

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63. "Right. In Europe Bernie is a left-of-center politician. "
In response to Reply # 14


          

>American politics just shifted hard, hard right after the
>Clintons made the Democrats Reagan republicans.
>There's a TON of space to Bernie's left

Indeed - but it goes to show you how much Republicans have dominated possession of the narrative. They've effectively moved the center towards to the right by unabashedly championing positions that they believe in - even if they are sometimes hard-line right-wing positions.

The left has been far too accommodating to that right-of-center, opting to spend more political capital on appeasing moderates and conservative leaning independents instead of broadening the base by fighting for popular progressive policies.


-->

  

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Stevie Lee
Member since Aug 17th 2008
1189 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 10:27 AM

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7. "Bernie in a coma would still be the only good candidate"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This is a minor procedure that will get Bernie more coverage than he's gotten his entire campaign

He'll be alright

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 10:40 AM

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9. "oh no. prayers up."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 10:45 AM

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10. "He'll be fine. It sounds like something pretty routine."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Oct-02-19 10:46 AM by stravinskian

          

What this all does to built-in preconceptions about whether he's "too old" might be a different story. But as much as I've ranted against him for other reasons, I think it would be a shame if something like this was what pushed him out.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16415 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 11:04 AM

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12. "100% agree"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

i do wonder if he might miss the next debate or if hes resting in the hopes to at least make it to the debate. i feel he doesnt really even need to go the debate.

if he does drop out i hope its on his own accord and not because hes forced to.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 11:36 AM

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13. "its all the media is gonna ask him about now."
In response to Reply # 10


          

theyll go from hardly covering him to obsessing about how he almost died on the campaign trail.

i wouldnt be surprised if cnn had a grim reaper countdown clock ready to do.

with that said...voters should rightfully price his age/health into their preference. dude is at the literal age of life expectancy in this country and a faulty engine isnt gonna do him any justice.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16415 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 12:45 PM

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16. "if any of the older candidates win the nom. i do hope their vp is "young..."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

warren is 70. she seems perfectly healthy. im just hoping next go round the candidates are in their 50s max.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed Oct-02-19 02:55 PM

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40. "'i might die but my vp will survive' "
In response to Reply # 16


          

thats not exactly a strong message to run on lol.

if people gotta seriously consider the insurance policy before you even get the job...

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16415 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 03:12 PM

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42. "kinda"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

i think warren is good on her own accords. if she gets the nomination i want a younger vp pick because the vp should be the next one up once the two terms are done right? if we get warren/bernie im pretty sure were not going to have bernie running in 8 years to follow up warren.

the main reason i think bernie and warren are hitting is because they are talking about issues that the younger voting demographic care about. we badly need our officials to represent the population in every way. age is one big disparity right now.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed Oct-02-19 05:44 PM

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54. "one of a few major dividing lines on the left:"
In response to Reply # 42


          

>age is one big disparity right now.

along with race, gender, etc.

there are so many places for the dem coalition to fracture. the balancing act that dem politicians have to pull off is seriously impressive.

repubs are becoming increasingly homogenous (older, whiter, male-r) and dont have to placate large blocs of diverse culture/ideology/geography/etc. they dont even have to care about 80% of the shit dem politicians/voters beat each other up over.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79620 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 01:09 PM

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17. "This is definitely something that should push him out "
In response to Reply # 10


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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PG
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Wed Oct-02-19 01:25 PM

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18. "a couple stints... maybe routine(ish) but it's not minor"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

literally jacking open his arteries to keep the blood flowing smooth... not a good sign.

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Oct-02-19 01:37 PM

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20. "right dude up there speaking like he's Bernie's doctor lol..."
In response to Reply # 18


          

>literally jacking open his arteries to keep the blood flowing
>smooth... not a good sign.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 01:44 PM

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22. "Uh, if your doctor says "This sounds like something pretty routine,""
In response to Reply # 20


          


then you need to find a new doctor.

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Oct-02-19 01:53 PM

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23. "the point is your not HIS doctor you don't know he actually had done lol..."
In response to Reply # 22


          

>
>then you need to find a new doctor.

all you know is what his campaign has put out in media reports

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 02:06 PM

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27. "No I'm not his doctor. Thankfully he doesn't come to OKP for medical adv..."
In response to Reply # 23


          


But you're not his doctor either. If you just want to make up shit that he MIGHT have then that's a game that can be played with any of the candidates.

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Oct-02-19 02:21 PM

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32. "Bernie is a year older than my dad, I wouldn't consider ANY heart..."
In response to Reply # 27


          

procedure "routine"

>But you're not his doctor either. If you just want to make up
>shit that he MIGHT have then that's a game that can be played
>with any of the candidates.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 02:25 PM

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34. "^^^^say it the fuck again. not playing at all."
In response to Reply # 32


          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Oct-02-19 02:34 PM

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36. "I don't know what kind of procedure you're envisioning,"
In response to Reply # 32


          


but usually to implant a stent they don't even need to open the chest cavity.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Oct-02-19 01:39 PM

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21. "^Like,not minor at all.Chest pains followed by an emergency angioplasty?"
In response to Reply # 18
Wed Oct-02-19 01:40 PM by kfine

          

I mean I'm not a doctor, but that sequence of events most often (2/3 of the time) occurs after some form of heart attack or angina:


https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/understanding-angioplasty-when-you-need-it-and-when-you-may-not

"About two-thirds of these procedures are done in people experiencing a potentially life-threatening event—a heart attack or unstable angina, defined as severe, worsening chest pain during exertion or stress, or chest pain that happens at rest."


Prayers up to him 100%. But I am also a little uneasy with the degree to which this is being played down. It's like the media and/or his campaign is making every effort to avoid using the terminology normally associated with this nature of healthcare episode. Shady af.

Not something to brush off for a man his age, talk less someone running for one of the most stressful jobs on the planet.


>literally jacking open his arteries to keep the blood flowing
>smooth... not a good sign.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 01:59 PM

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25. "I didn't say it's minor. But yes, it is a very common procedure."
In response to Reply # 18


          


A lot of people get stents when they reach that sort of age, and they generally live many more years after that.

Bill Clinton had quadruple bypass surgery. THAT is a major procedure. He also got two stents shortly after that. It was fourteen years ago and by all accounts he's now in excellent health (due, one assumes, to improved diet and exercise and regular medical checks). David Letterman had QUINTUPLE bypass surgery, and he's doing fine nineteen years later.

Heart disease is very serious, but it's also something that's usually very straightforward to control once someone is aware of it. My brother had a heart attack in his early 40's, by now he meets regularly with his cardiologist, takes medications, keeps in shape, and he'll probably outlive me.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79620 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 02:05 PM

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26. "Bill looked like shit after surgery too"
In response to Reply # 25


          

All shaky and shit.

Ain’t no one voting for an old dude with heart problems

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 02:16 PM

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31. "Yeah, if Bernie'd had quadruple bypass surgery,"
In response to Reply # 26


          


my guess is that he'd get out of the race to take time to recover. I think that goes without saying.

Thankfully, he didn't. He got a couple stents. I haven't had one, but my understanding is that under those conditions most people would be out of the hospital within the week. And most of that time is for monitoring, not for recovery. They don't even make a large incision to implant a stent.

As for whether people would vote for him: Yeah, I said in my post that this might affect perceptions about whether he's too old to run. All I'm saying is that that would be a shame, because the fact that someone gets a stent does not mean that they're gonna die anytime soon.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Oct-02-19 02:23 PM

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33. "except he literally is taking time off from the race to recover til furt..."
In response to Reply # 31
Wed Oct-02-19 02:26 PM by kfine

          

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/02/766402754/bernie-sanders-has-heart-procedure-cancels-events-until-further-notice

>
>my guess is that he'd get out of the race to take time to
>recover. I think that goes without saying.
>
>Thankfully, he didn't. He got a couple stents. I haven't had
>one, but my understanding is that under those conditions most
>people would be out of the hospital within the week. And most
>of that time is for monitoring, not for recovery. They don't
>even make a large incision to implant a stent.


I just find it very weird to go this hard at downplaying this nature of health scare with someone his age. Like no, thankfully, he didn't die but sudden death is not uncommon in the scenario he experienced.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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35. "Well, stents do have to be monitored for a while."
In response to Reply # 33


          


If there's a problem with it, he might have to be in the hospital longer after they adjust it.

And if the campaign said "We expect him to return to the trail within the week," and then a week later they said "actually, give us another week," then the conspiracy theories about him being on death's door would REALLY fly.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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45. "pretty sure recovery will be more than a week"
In response to Reply # 35


          


Which will be hard, if not impossible, to recover from even at this stage.

I could be wrong of course.

But yes, no sane person should not vote for him just because he has a stent.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Oct-02-19 03:43 PM

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50. "Yes but it's also odd to focus almost exclusively on his stents and not"
In response to Reply # 35


          



the condition(s) that led to him requiring the emergency angioplasty and suspension of his campaign in the first place.

A bit like someone undergoing a lobotomy but everyone talking about "well, its only 20 stitches" lol

I hate this "chest discomfort" term his campaign put out there to downplay whatever happened. Reeks of watered down bs. I, personally, am doubtful they'd be suspending his campaign until further notice over some mild discomfort and/or minor procedure.

  

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PG
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55. "sig worthy.. forget however you feel about it's context here"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          


>like someone undergoing a lobotomy but everyone talking
>about "well, its only 20 stitches" lol

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Oct-02-19 02:52 PM

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38. "its the stress levels of being president that concern people"
In response to Reply # 31


          

that job makes you look 30 years older in 8 years if you actually work the job.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Oct-02-19 02:09 PM

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29. "Heart disease is still the leading cause of death in the US ,though."
In response to Reply # 25
Wed Oct-02-19 02:10 PM by kfine

          

You raise fair points and everything, but people could probably point to someone that is a cancer survivor as well... that doesn't make cancers any less concerning.

If he did in fact have a heart attack, that is concerning at his age especially considering the job he's running for.



>
>A lot of people get stents when they reach that sort of age,
>and they generally live many more years after that.
>
>Bill Clinton had quadruple bypass surgery. THAT is a major
>procedure. He also got two stents shortly after that. It was
>fourteen years ago and by all accounts he's now in excellent
>health (due, one assumes, to improved diet and exercise and
>regular medical checks). David Letterman had QUINTUPLE bypass
>surgery, and he's doing fine nineteen years later.
>
>Heart disease is very serious, but it's also something that's
>usually very straightforward to control once someone is aware
>of it. My brother had a heart attack in his early 40's, by now
>he meets regularly with his cardiologist, takes medications,
>keeps in shape, and he'll probably outlive me.
>

  

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PG
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30. "yep.. i wasn't debating as much as I was qualifying... nm"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

  

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Vex_id
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61. "Respect for saying this."
In response to Reply # 10


          

>as much as I've
>ranted against him for other reasons, I think it would be a
>shame if something like this was what pushed him out.

It's nice to see the civil regard others (including some critics) have of him in a moment like this. It would be a shame if this forced him out of the race - given the lifetime of work that he's tirelessly invested as a public servant.

As you noted - this doesn't appear to be anything too serious - but the perception of it may be be different as clearly this will be exploited as reasoning why he should bow out. That should be a decision that rests with him and the facts of the situation - not political spin.


-->

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
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Wed Oct-02-19 10:45 AM

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11. "Damn, I wish him well. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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Mynoriti
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15. "that's rough"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Hillary fainting didn't do her any favors. This might all depend on how the media covers it. This could also being down Joe who's looked far 'older' than Bern

Sounds like a pretty basic thing. I wish him well

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Oct-02-19 01:55 PM

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24. "Now that you mention this, what a double standard."
In response to Reply # 15
Wed Oct-02-19 01:57 PM by kfine

          

>Hillary fainting didn't do her any favors.

A female presidential candidate stumbles/faints walking outside an event due to working with pneumonia and is plagued with skepticism of her health/stamina for the rest of the election.

A male presidential candidate has a damn near heart attack, emergency angioplasty, and needs stents put in to keep his blood flowing and folks are just like meh, sounds pretty routine, he'll be back on the trail soon.


lol

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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28. "it was 9/11 tho... the worst day of the year to look weak af"
In response to Reply # 24


          

and yes, it’s a double standard.

I like Bernie but FOH acting like this ain’t some serious shit.

He’s done.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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39. "Don't let bernie fans folks fool you. This is a bad look. "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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tariqhu
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44. "yup"
In response to Reply # 39


          

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed Oct-02-19 02:42 PM

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37. "grievance politics on the left are so fucking weird lol."
In response to Reply # 0


          

i see overwhelming support/encouragement for bernie on social media and still some of his supporters are like 'you neoliberal haters thought you could take him down but he will be back in no time!'

apparently the establishment is taking bernie down by increasing his cholesterol.

and now theyre flooding peoples mentions with data/graphics on stents lol.

im not even gonna get into their msm/warren angle on this.

i honestly cant tell real people from bots/trolls on that end of the spectrum unless they have a verified check mark.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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41. "I kind of feel like Twitter needs a verified only version. "
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Sits right top of the regular twitter, but with a flip of a switch I can only hear and see people who link to a facebook/linkedin profile or otherwise verify who they are.

I wish I could block now anyone who doesn't have their image in their profile. because it necessarily the bots wasting your time but 15 year old kids.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Rjcc
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46. "people have full on rants in response to people who don't exist"
In response to Reply # 41


          

it's bizarre

just show me one *real* person who said the thing you're mad at before you (not you, buddy, but the person I'm talking about) start a 25 tweet debunk thread

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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79. "See it DAILY."
In response to Reply # 46


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://www.Tupreme.com

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Wed Oct-02-19 03:18 PM

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43. "I caught Bernie on Colbert and it reminded me"
In response to Reply # 37


          


how much I actually do like Bernie, and how charming he can be just being himself.

Calling Trump a spoiled brat, etc. Has a sense of humor, especially about himself. All on point.


He actually gets drowned out by his most vocal/scorched earth supporters- here, twitter, etc.


I hope he is okay and recovers. I do think stents, though certainly not open heart surgery, require recovery time though- seems a lot of people are downplaying that.

I mean, even if he has to sit out 6 weeks ...I don't think the campaign could recover.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Oct-02-19 03:33 PM

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48. "The thing is, he was already falling well behind Warren."
In response to Reply # 43


          


If he'd been in a healthy #2 position, it might be worth asking whether he could hold on to that and be the "non-Biden option."

But he's in a place where he'd need to catch up even for that.

So while I've been the main one in here downplaying this, I do think think this probably seals the fact that he won't be the nominee. But he was probably there already.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Wed Oct-02-19 03:41 PM

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49. "fair enough"
In response to Reply # 48


          

>
>If he'd been in a healthy #2 position, it might be worth
>asking whether he could hold on to that and be the "non-Biden
>option."
>
>But he's in a place where he'd need to catch up even for that.
>
>
>So while I've been the main one in here downplaying this, I do
>think think this probably seals the fact that he won't be the
>nominee. But he was probably there already.

The biggest thing that has kept me from ruling Bernie out as #2 is his fundraising. I know there are differing opinions on how much you can really consider that, but his numbers always make me raise an eyebrow/take pause.

This was pre- heart incident of course.

>
>

to be clear, I was mostly referring to things I've seen on twitter that he'll be back stronger than ever, etc. I get really wanting to believe that if you're a supporter though.



  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed Oct-02-19 06:13 PM

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56. "his supporters really do him a disservice."
In response to Reply # 43


          

the way they turned on warren cemented the perception a lot of people have of them.

i see some of the more sober minded bernie folks usually trying to tell the crew to focus more on positive reinforcement of their own candidate instead of the constant tearing down of others...but its to no avail.

i dont even know how to get it in their head that they are actually *hurting* their cause.

  

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Walleye
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Wed Oct-02-19 05:27 PM

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51. "Up and fighting for *all of us* already"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Oct-02-19 05:28 PM by Walleye

          

One of the most genuinely decent humans in politics, who recognizes that he's building a broad left movement that isn't about a single political figure. He's going to do this until he literally can't because he wants every person to be able to live freely.

This should be a wake up call to people in my generation (and, ideally, younger) to wake up and start deepening that bench. One person isn't going to dismantle capitalism.

You've got to love this unrelenting dedication to the message though:

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1179494005064847361

Bernie Sanders
@BernieSanders

Thanks for all the well wishes. I'm feeling good. I'm fortunate to have good health care and great doctors and nurses helping me to recover.

None of us know when a medical emergency might affect us. And no one should fear going bankrupt if it occurs. Medicare for All!
4:30 PM · Oct 2, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Wed Oct-02-19 05:30 PM

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52. "good stuff"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Oct-02-19 05:39 PM

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53. "i was thinking about this:"
In response to Reply # 51


          

>This should be a wake up call to people in my generation (and,
>ideally, younger) to wake up and start deepening that bench.
>One person isn't going to dismantle capitalism.

if bernie goes down or steps away...who is gonna lead the 'movement'? where do those supporters go? do they just rally around the policies? fold themselves into another campaign (warren)? etc.

even if bernie doesnt win the nom...it would suck to not have him out there still keeping those people who he resonates with involved and energized (especially young fokls). its gonna be hard for the eventual nom to reach some of those people him/her-self.

  

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Walleye
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Wed Oct-02-19 06:15 PM

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57. "We're better off than in 2016"
In response to Reply # 53


          

There haven't been this many self-identified socialists in Congress since the 1910s, and candidates on the state/local level are blooming pretty seriously now. DSA members hold 12% of seats in the Chicago City Council. There's not big, flashy gains but I doubt it was possible on that scale without the momentum Sanders generated in 2016.

This has never been about a single candidate, and we're not going away - though presidential elections tend to make people forget that. Which I suppose is the downside of having a legitimately popular candidate for president in two consecutive elections - though if that's made us lazy, then it's our fault. Sanders is a chance to jump the line, but that shouldn't excuse giving into some kind of executive cult.

There's not another candidate in the election who shares Sanders' vision of building working class power and putting an end to the miserable grip of the investor class that wants to grind us into meat. So I guess the probable answer is that people will disperse in the various ways you described, and probably in the order you described - mainly finding a new candidate or making a lot of noise on some of Sanders' signature issues.

That's not really an interesting answer, but everybody knows that Sanders is a means, not an end. Including him, luckily.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Rjcc
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59. "I very much disagree with this."
In response to Reply # 57


          

"everybody knows that Sanders is a means, not an end."

maybe we think the percentages are different, but I don't see it as true about *everybody*

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Mon Oct-07-19 10:36 AM

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78. "Let's hope"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

>That's not really an interesting answer, but everybody knows
>that Sanders is a means, not an end. Including him, luckily.

as you mention, the war on the public agitated by the "investor class" I think more than anything else has pushed people leftward. what Bernie was able to do was put a name and a face to that feeling.

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Oct-03-19 08:36 AM

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62. "his steadfast commitment has been inspiring"
In response to Reply # 51
Thu Oct-03-19 08:36 AM by Vex_id

          

and he always seems to pivot away from personalizing a situation like this to relate it to a broader societal point - in this instance - our ailing health care system.

Nothing will stop Bernie. Not saying he'll win, but he's going to play all 4 quarters with the same enthusiasm.

-->

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed Oct-02-19 06:54 PM

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58. "warren being classy as usual."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/cascamike/status/1179503830905626624

for the life of me i cant understand why any bernie supporter would attack this woman. she has been nothing but respectful and friendly towards him.

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
315 posts
Thu Oct-03-19 09:00 AM

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67. "It's simple"
In response to Reply # 58


          

>for the life of me i cant understand why any bernie supporter
>would attack this woman. she has been nothing but respectful
>and friendly towards him.

It's all about policy for Bernie supporters, they simply believe that Bernie will do what he says and help the working class whereas for many good reasons Warren won't. Bringing up these reasons is the sole point of a primary. It's less about her character and more about her convictions. If Bernie wasn't in it watch how fast she moves even farther to the center.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Thu Oct-03-19 05:48 AM

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60. "ER doc weighs in on the facts + likelihood this was heart attack (link)"
In response to Reply # 0


          


https://slate.com/technology/2019/10/bernie-sanders-heart-attack-diagnosis-stents-chest-pain.html


Did Bernie Sanders Have a Heart Attack?

The only other likely scenario, based on what his campaign has said so far, isn’t much better.

By JEREMY SAMUEL FAUST

A 78-year-old man with a medical history of gout and diverticulitis comes to the emergency department after developing chest discomfort while at a work function.

The patient’s overall clinical scenario is concerning enough that he is admitted to the hospital, where interventional cardiologists urgently perform a procedure called a cardiac catheterization. When the doctors inject dye into the major coronary arteries that supply blood to the heart, they find that one of them is so severely blocked that they must immediately place two stents in an effort to restore normal blood flow and hopefully prevent cardiac tissue around it from dying.

Based on the information his campaign has released, this scenario seems to be what happened to Bernie Sanders on Tuesday evening. Without a close look at Sanders’ medical chart, it’s impossible to make a definitive diagnosis, and I have not reviewed the details of his case other than what has been reported to the media by his campaign. But even the scant information we have—that he had stents inserted overnight following an acute cardiac episode—is enough to be able to say: This was very likely a heart attack.

I asked the Sanders’ campaign directly if they could confirm that this was or was not a heart attack. They declined to comment on the record. On Wednesday evening, the Wall Street Journal ran a story that originally stated a spokesperson for Sanders said the senator “didn’t suffer a heart attack,” but that story was later updated to remove that assertion. The story now states that the spokesperson said “more tests would be run to determine that diagnosis.”

A myocardial infarction, the medical term for a heart attack, is defined as an acute injury to the muscle of the heart, accompanied by clinical evidence of inadequate blood supply. This is usually confirmed with a blood test called a cardiac troponin that detects evidence of the damage (this testing takes hours, not days). The threshold that must be reached to raise a doctor’s suspicion of a heart attack is not high. New chest pain or pressure certainly suffices. Pain or new shortness of breath, whether with exertion or at rest, also suffices. But even less obvious symptoms such as sweating, jaw pain, or sudden arm tingling are enough to spur an immediate investigation.

When symptoms are obviously related to the chest, we call them “anginal.” We know that Sanders presented to the doctors with classic anginal symptoms, and that he underwent cardiac catheterization urgently, because the campaign told us so. We can therefore interpolate a great deal about what the emergency doctors and cardiologists likely discovered. If his bloodwork and his electrocardiogram had both been normal, there would have been no need to rush him to the cardiac catheterization suite in such a short time frame (it’s possible some doctors would rush him for catheterization even if those tests were normal, but that would only happen if the patient’s symptoms were extremely bad). The fact that the time frame for this was so accelerated indicates that at least one of those two findings was present, and thus the senator almost certainly met the clinical definition of a heart attack.

The suspicion that Sanders was experiencing a heart attack would have been confirmed in the cardiac catheter suite when his cardiologists found at least two blockages in one of his coronary arteries that required and were amenable to stents. We don’t know whether the fact that he had two stents placed in one artery is evidence of a limited heart attack or the opposite.

Some commentators have been hedging about whether Sanders had a heart attack or not. Here’s why that hedging is likely unnecessary: Other than a heart attack, there are two scenarios that would require coronary stent placement: unstable angina and stable angina. Stable angina is defined as chest pain (or similar symptoms) that do not change over time, and the information the campaign gave about him experiencing chest pain suddenly, during an event, suggests this is not what Sanders experienced.

That leaves unstable angina as the only alternative to a heart attack. Unstable angina is an increasingly controversial topic among experts. In essence, unstable angina is progressive coronary artery narrowing that causes worsening symptoms, but is not necessarily accompanied by new EKG findings or abnormal blood tests. It’s basically an impending heart attack, a ticking time bomb, in which the cardiac muscle has not yet died—but could crumple at any minute. Patients can have unstable angina for minutes, days, weeks, or even longer. While patients with unstable angina who receive stents often feel better afterward and heart attacks are prevented in a small number of them, the risks of the procedure are considered so dangerous—including bleeding, and even the possibility of inducing a heart attack—that only patients with severe risks and/or severe symptoms should undergo cardiac catheterization.

So, again, taken together, the facts we know are that Sanders required two stents and that this occurred in an acute clinical scenario. This means that either it was a heart attack or that it was unstable angina. Unstable angina carries just as poor a prognosis as many, though not all, heart attacks.

Recovery from a heart attack varies. Often people are tired, and most can expect a reduction in their tolerance for exercise and stress. Some are immobilized and require prolonged rehabilitation. It’s also true that some patients bounce back quickly and essentially return to normal. Without more information, we just don’t know what the scenario is for the senator.

Given that Sanders is running for president at the age of 78, I’d suggest it is perfectly reasonable to want to know whether he has just experienced a heart attack and how extensive the damage was. Patients who have had heart attacks have lower life expectancies and are far more likely to have strokes. If he’s going to continue in the race, he certainly should expect to disclose a bit more information about his health.

  

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Walleye
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Thu Oct-03-19 08:46 AM

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64. "And POLITICO found a doctor to say it wasn't a big deal"
In response to Reply # 60


          

So there you go.

I've seen a lot of people who are genuinely concerned for his health that think he should drop out. Now they can all relax a bit and keep their fingers crossed for the best candidate to deliver the genuine change that they assure us they want.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Oct-03-19 08:47 AM

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65. "all this speculation and poasting, and this is the net-result:"
In response to Reply # 60


          

<So, again, taken together, the facts we know are that Sanders required two stents and that this occurred in an acute clinical scenario.>

Maybe just wait until we have more actual facts before making "Bernie is dying!" proclamations?

Just an idea.


-->

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Oct-03-19 09:21 AM

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68. "Before any of this happened his age should've been a concern for most..."
In response to Reply # 65


          

reasonable folk.

We've all seen how much younger presidents have "aged" while in office due to the weight of the position.

Personally I don't think anyone over 70 should be running for president. There should be upper age limits just like there are lower ones.

Most Americans who are able are not trying to work past 70 at a regular job let alone the presidency of the US lol

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Oct-03-19 09:42 AM

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69. "Yet all of the top candidates over the past 4 years have been 70+"
In response to Reply # 68


          

>reasonable folk.
>
>We've all seen how much younger presidents have "aged" while
>in office due to the weight of the position.
>
>Personally I don't think anyone over 70 should be running for
>president. There should be upper age limits just like there
>are lower ones.
>
>Most Americans who are able are not trying to work past 70 at
>a regular job let alone the presidency of the US lol

Hillary, Trump, Bernie & Biden are all over 70. It's of course a factor - but these candidates shouldn't be dismissed simply because of their age. Among the 4, I'd argue that Bernie is most fit for the position. He's up for the challenge and had endured a very active schedule - with little to no signs of cognitive decline. He's sharp - even at his age.

I agree that we need generational change - and I'd like to see a new generation of leaders take resonant hold - but as of right now - there's no reason to disqualify Bernie because of his age (especially in relation to the rest of the top-tier field).


-->

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Oct-03-19 10:07 AM

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70. "And I think that is a problem."
In response to Reply # 69


          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Oct-04-19 05:40 PM

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72. "how many of them have had heart attacks?"
In response to Reply # 69


          

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
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Thu Oct-03-19 11:44 AM

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71. "Good news, Bernie will be at next debate!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/AveriHarper/status/1179795771564015617?s=20

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Oct-04-19 05:45 PM

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73. "official diagnosis: bernie had a heart attack"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/melbournecoal/status/1180245800418455553
-------
Bernie Sanders Had Heart Attack, Doctors Confirm

https://t.co/FMj5oVFhWk
-------

i know a lot of folks want bernie to immediately get back in the race and win this thing.

but seriously...do yall think its best for *him* to jump right into this high physical/mental stress environment again asap?

people miss weeks to months from relatively mundane desk jobs for minor heart attacks.

  

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Teknontheou
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Fri Oct-04-19 06:38 PM

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75. "He'll be out of the race by Super Tuesday."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

And not necessarily because he won't be back on his feet soon, but because he's going to lose votes behind this.

  

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Reeq
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76. "he raises too much money to bow out before then imo."
In response to Reply # 75


          

hes the top fundraiser in the race and a top 3 candidate (even after this heart attack imo).

it doesnt make much sense to end your campaign when people are still shoveling so much money in your direction.

barring more health issues down the road...dude is in it to the end imo.

i remember when jason johnson said bernie would drop out by august (this year) lol
https://twitter.com/net_enforcer/status/1179803618708480000

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Oct-07-19 10:03 AM

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77. "the support bernie gets makes me think the polls are skewed"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

the amount of money he is raising by so many different people is huge. it could be that his donors are from states that arent being polled as heavily right now but i think he will outperform when actual votes are cast.

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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Tue Oct-08-19 10:48 AM

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80. "Bernie's Corpse >>>> Trump"
In response to Reply # 77


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://www.Tupreme.com

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Tue Oct-08-19 02:56 PM

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81. "Bernies support is a lot bigger than reported.."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

...his demographics are not the types to pick up random phone calls and answer polls ...or even have phone lines to begin with


  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Tue Oct-08-19 03:40 PM

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83. "Is it though?? lol.Sometimes I wonder if what's going on is the opposite"
In response to Reply # 81
Tue Oct-08-19 03:41 PM by kfine

          

Like... maybe Sanders supporters are a SUPER vocal and highly engaged minority, giving the impression that his support is more expansive than it is??

I mean if one only gauged political support from social media, it would seem like Bernie has the most support and likelihood of becoming the nominee. Just like if one only gauged political support from telephone polls, it would seem like Biden has the most support and likelihood of becoming the nominee. So I bet there is some selection bias skewing things, as yall are intimating, but maybe not the way we think? BOTH Biden and Bernie would be extra susceptible to such skewing, since their bases are so concentrated with a particular age group (Biden--> Boomers, Bernie-->youth).

I really just think it's mostly echo chambers going on right now tbh. Things are going to look obvious until the field's wittled down further. And of the secondary support folks have been voicing, Warren and Biden look like they'll be the main beneficiaries of gains when other candidates drop out. Bernie's secondary support appeal is more at the level of a Harris or Buttigieg, according to this survey, and his strongest sources of secondary support come from really low polling candidates' supporters like Yang's and Castro's:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/koeze-bronner-crossover-1.png?w=575

I mean his fundraising is very strong and consistent, I'm not knocking that.. but a lot of signs seem to be pointing towards his support being super concentrated not so much a broad cut of the dem electorate, despite how enthusiastic his supporters are.

  

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mista k5
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Tue Oct-08-19 03:48 PM

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85. "you could be right"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

im just focused on how many unique donors bernie has. last i heard it was over 1 million.

this articles touches on it

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/02/us/politics/2020-democratic-fundraising.html

that has to be worth something. maybe there are 1 million people that also want warren to win but for whatever reason they arent all donating. i would put my money on bernie getting a higher percentage of votes than what he is polling at though. especially in comparison to the other front runners. im not saying it would be enough to close the gap in the polling but who knows.

  

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kfine
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Tue Oct-08-19 03:55 PM

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86. "I hear ya. "
In response to Reply # 85


          



Thanks for the link, I'll take a look

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Oct-08-19 06:09 PM

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89. "dont forget bernie began the race with a national action network "
In response to Reply # 85


          

already in motion from 2016 and continually engaged through 2018 and so on.

he had state/county party chairs and allies ready to mobilize their fundraising efforts along with an already existing email/phone list from his own campaign and pac.

he and joe biden had near identical national name id too.

people like warren, mayor pete, kamala, etc have had to build from closer to the ground floor.

  

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Reeq
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87. "its most likely not. "
In response to Reply # 81


          

theyre prolly smaller than all the noise/reaction they produce.

and you only need one solid metric to confirm that: his loss of support at progressive strongholds like dailykos, moveon.org, etc. who have all moved firmly to the warren column.

most people were right about a lot of his 2016 support being anti-clinton and a lot of his 2020 support being highly concentrated among a fervent base.

theres no hidden vote there imo.

even if there were...by your theory...it would be the people less likely to answer polls (like young people) aka traditional primary non-voters. so there prolly wouldnt be much of a boost coming from them anyway. especially against super-engaged college-educated suburban voters (tilting warren) and black voters in the south (tilting biden).

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Oct-08-19 06:16 PM

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90. "Polls correct for this."
In response to Reply # 81


          

>...his demographics are not the types to pick up random phone
>calls and answer polls ...or even have phone lines to begin
>with

It's a common misconception that people who don't answer land lines are underreported in polls. Good pollsters also collect data on how their polls correlate with eventual voting outcomes and use that data to correct for built in sampling biases in later polls.

It's true that the corrections become more difficult to estimate as the number of respondents becomes small. But THAT error is just as likely to overestimate as it is to underestimate.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Oct-08-19 03:05 PM

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82. "He definitely has financial support. "
In response to Reply # 77


          

Not sure if it will translate to votes since Warren I likely eating into his demo.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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84. "Bernie supporters are actually Warren's weakest source of 2ndary support..."
In response to Reply # 82
Tue Oct-08-19 03:56 PM by kfine

          

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/koeze-bronner-crossover-1.png?w=575

^according to some of the data floating around anyway



>Not sure if it will translate to votes
>
>

Ya I donno either. I'm leaning towards not necessarily, bc it's such a crowded field and high numbers might just be an indication of really "enthusiastic" support from one's base not necessarily size. For example, Buttigieg's fundraising has also been very strong but he's polling at like 5th place.

I mean I get that Bernie hit that 1M+ donor milestone or whatever... but if it's mostly millenials/gen z that doesn't necessarily bode well for him sweeping the nom imho. It's literally that demographic against everrrrybody else. And everybody else isn't as obsessed with Bernie as they are *shrug*

edit: and I'm willing to bet a recent heart attack is going to concern older folks way more, even if they were thinking of him as an alternate choice.

  

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Reeq
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74. "."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Oct-04-19 06:01 PM by Reeq

          

.

  

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Reeq
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88. "the media is treating this a lot differently than clintons pneumonia."
In response to Reply # 0


          

even msnbc was covering clintons like a national security scandal.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGI40MDXYAAJawf.jpg

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Oct-09-19 08:50 AM

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92. "Prolly cause it was the general election when Hilldawg fainted"
In response to Reply # 88


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Wed Oct-09-19 10:13 AM

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94. "That and Bernie wasn't having weird seizures on camera..."
In response to Reply # 92
Wed Oct-09-19 10:15 AM by My_SP1200_Broken_Aga

  

          

...and they may not have really been seizures, but holy shit, it looked like something was really wrong with her

  

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reaction
Member since Aug 09th 2019
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Wed Oct-09-19 08:40 AM

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91. "A deep dive into the Bernie coalition"
In response to Reply # 0


          

For those talking about where Bernie's support lies, the whole secret to his victory is engaging non voters and the multi racial working class coalition that he has created. This is a massive ask but it really is the only way. I think this post from someone on the 320k member SandersforPresident subreddit describes the current situation brilliantly:

In so many words, the truth that must be faced is this: for the corporate-owned liberal news media and the over-represented professional class Democratic voters who are heavily influenced by said media, Sanders cannot win. Do not mistake this voting demographic with centrist or pro-corporate Democrats. Much of this population will consider themselves quite left-wing or progressive. But nonetheless, winning with these voters is, by and large, hopeless for Sanders. Unlike in 2016 where Clinton presented such a tone-deaf and blatant divide between milquetoast corporate centrism and Sanders' aspirations for progressive justice, the 2020 field intentionally mystifies and obscures the substantive differences on offer. And given such cover, you'll see tons of Bernie's 2016 voters racing to champion Warren, because she offers them the same sense of being "progressive" and "with the times" without the discomfort regarding their class position and place in the capitalist meritocracy that comes with Bernie Sanders.

In other words, the standard Democratic Primary voter base is an unwinnable population for Sanders, and understanding this requires one to forget about counting the number of "progressives" or looking at popular 2016 indicators like young voters. Now that Warren is in the race articulating more enticing arguments for going with the establishment, we're seeing that many of that 2016 Sanders crowd were never committed to a truly insurgent political movement of class struggle and political revolution, but rather were just opportunists who needed an alternative to Clintonism. Sanders won't win these people back over because Warren allows them to have their cake and eat it too. She lets them feel every bit as progressive and forward-thinking as when they supported Sanders last time, but from the comfort of a safe, establishment-friendly camp that doesn't carry the stigma of an unorthodox rabble-rousing candidate who embraces the word "socialism". Do not feel betrayed, for these were never our people, and with Warren they are finally at home where they belong.

But where does that leave us?

Well, Bernie has a strong and loyal core of support within the current primary electorate that sits somewhere between 10 and 20 percent. That's us - both his voters and his army of organizers whose help he will depend on. But where to go from here? As I said, if we focus on winning back the same people who brought him right to the edge of victory in 2016, we're destined to fail, because too many have found a more suitable home elsewhere.

But before we continue, let us do a demographic profile of the kind of people who dominate the voting booths in a typical Democratic presidential primary. We are talking about people who are consciously and self avowed liberals or progressives. And to think of what type of person this includes, it should be no surprise that compared to the voting-eligible population as a whole, these people are disproportionately likely to have a 4 year college degree or higher. And along with that, they are disproportionately earning well above the median income in white-collar professional and managerial careers. It's no surprise this crowd prefers Warren - she resembles them in so many ways!

So, then, Sanders must win among voters who would sooner embrace his politics of class struggle and economic populism than the polished managerial progressivism of Warren. Where can they be found? All signs indicate the answer is the working class - low income wage earners who mostly lack college education. And I'll give you the good news up front: the working class outnumber the professional class several times over. The working class could absolutely bury the professional class in any election result. But here's the catch - the working class tend to have low voter turnout in elections and even lower in primaries.

The only thing that can save Sanders is a massive campaign of direct-contact with working class populations that wouldn't normally show up for the primaries to get them engaged and motivated to make their voice heard for once. It was inevitable that Sanders could not survive in this field by being the progressive candidate when so many of the primary electorate's traditional so-called "progressive" voters would be enamored by a technocratic professional class concept of progressivism. Sanders, in fact, never truly was defined by being progressive to begin with.

Sanders is the candidate of class struggle. He was in 2016 and he is today as well. The candidate of class struggle will never win with an electorate whose class interests aren't the ones he primarily fights for. Bernie stands for the working class, and only the working class are capable of delivering him a victory in this contest. Sanders skips the squishy language about ending corruption and the pipe-dream fantasy about our current system perhaps delivering more equitable outcomes if only more enlightened people sat at the top. Instead, he articulates the fundamental truth that the interests of the ruling class irreconcilably conflict with the interests of the working class masses. And without a doubt, Sanders is prepared to engage directly in this conflict on the side of the working class.

Middle class and affluent professional class "progressives" - who are personally insulated from the most brutal consequences of this class conflict - will not be persuaded to switch back to Sanders and put him over the top. The working class must be activated to enable their own liberation in this fight. It should be the focus of every Sanders organizer and volunteer over the next 4 months to proactively reach and activate working class populations to awaken from this long stretch of despair and apathy and rally to the first candidate in generations capable of pushing their interests in American politics.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Wed Oct-09-19 09:33 AM

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93. "RE: A deep dive into the Bernie coalition"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-15-2015/_5S3eP.mp4

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Thu Oct-10-19 11:29 AM

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95. "Watch this and tell me the media is fair with Bernie..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZhkKATtqtU


  

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