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Subject: "Dem primary summer temperature check" Previous topic | Next topic
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
14328 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 10:22 AM

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"Dem primary summer temperature check"


  

          

2 weeks away from the first debate. I can't believe we're already getting into this. It's been a quick few years.

So lets talk about it.
Questions: Who do you want to be the nominee? Who do you think will be the nominee? Are they the same person? Is anyone growing/fading on you?

Who do you think has the best chance to defeat Trump? Who do you think wouldn't fare well against him?

Polls seem to show Biden as a solid front runner. Bernie a bit behind in second. Warren, Mayor Pete, and Kamala close for third. Every one else picking up scraps.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
i really dont like how the media keeps propping biden as the answer
Jun 12th 2019
1
Ha!! I didn't see your post while I was typing mine
Jun 12th 2019
3
Warren is far more captivating than we/I gave her credit for
Jun 12th 2019
22
      Caught her on that Chris Hayes town hall
Jun 12th 2019
23
      ive mostly seen interviews
Jun 12th 2019
24
It feels like Biden is running as the heir apparent
Jun 12th 2019
2
i dont agree about beto
Jun 12th 2019
5
I was excited for Beto but I can’t lie
Jun 12th 2019
15
      agreed on all of that
Jun 12th 2019
16
'Running as the heir apparent' is one reason 2016 was lost.
Jun 13th 2019
65
which candidate will make the first threat of violence
Jun 12th 2019
4
Real Talk: I think they can all beat Trump.
Jun 12th 2019
6
i hope so
Jun 12th 2019
7
They definitely can
Jun 12th 2019
10
we all believed polls last time
Jun 12th 2019
21
538 gave Trump a better than 1 in 3 chance on election night.
Jun 12th 2019
32
      She lost that shit because she didn’t hit the rust belt hard
Jun 12th 2019
40
           RE: She lost that shit because she didn’t hit the rust belt hard
Jun 12th 2019
48
                True.... but it’s also the reason she should’ve went back to Wiscons...
Jun 13th 2019
53
                stop...she definitely should have hit the rust belt harder
Jun 13th 2019
69
                     You are right
Jun 13th 2019
76
They should all beat him.
Jun 12th 2019
49
They all can but who will? And who will move the party FORWARD?
Jun 19th 2019
117
RE: Dem primary summer temperature check
Jun 12th 2019
8
are you picking a horse and campaigning for them in the primaries?
Jun 12th 2019
9
      The candidate
Jun 12th 2019
12
           i feel you, i need to do the same
Jun 12th 2019
13
                Agreed, but the one thing I can't help shake is that Biden will be the n...
Jun 12th 2019
17
                     im definitely worried biden is hillary pt 2
Jun 12th 2019
18
Last couple months, I'm way up on Warren
Jun 12th 2019
11
I'm here too
Jun 12th 2019
25
      Even if it is this
Jun 12th 2019
38
           Oh I agree...just pointing out the arrogance
Jun 13th 2019
61
           And he'd characterize his left opponents as "impractical"
Jun 13th 2019
63
                RE: he was vice president for eight years while he watched this dynamic ...
Jun 13th 2019
67
           Every politician knows the real answer.
Jun 13th 2019
68
                sure but there is a big difference between
Jun 13th 2019
70
                     RE: sure but there is a big difference between
Jun 14th 2019
81
Warren has my vote right now.
Jun 12th 2019
14
What!!? What was the change for you?
Jun 12th 2019
27
      I’ve always been a fan of hers based on policy
Jun 12th 2019
41
Bernie and Biden are my least liked candidates.
Jun 12th 2019
19
why not bernie?
Jun 12th 2019
20
I don't like Bernie because he is old and unaccomplished and I question....
Jun 12th 2019
29
Yo same. I can't get on the Bernie train and I don't exactly know why.
Jun 12th 2019
35
Who will drop out first?
Jun 12th 2019
26
Ironically, possibly Warren (among major candidates).
Jun 12th 2019
33
I keep forgetting Gilibrand is running
Jun 12th 2019
36
If Beto has some sense, it'll be him.
Jun 12th 2019
37
he needs to knock it out of the park in the first debate
Jun 12th 2019
39
Please!
Jun 13th 2019
73
can some still run for senate? Like Beto,
Jun 12th 2019
43
      Ha.
Jun 12th 2019
45
      schumer is fucking terrible.
Jun 13th 2019
50
           yeah man...what would it take
Jun 13th 2019
62
                you know, maybe that is how you save face
Jun 13th 2019
64
                thatd be dope. he could start a movement wit all dem lower tier mfs
Jun 13th 2019
72
                susan rice was gonna challenge collins but she passed on it
Jun 13th 2019
71
Warren seems the most steady/complete
Jun 12th 2019
28
I really don't have strong feelings about any of them either way
Jun 12th 2019
30
My hopes are rising again for Warren.
Jun 12th 2019
31
RE: Dem primary summer temperature check
Jun 12th 2019
34
my favorite at the moment is Warren
Jun 12th 2019
42
I like Warren
Jun 12th 2019
44
Bernie: Democratic Socialism Transcript
Jun 12th 2019
46
petey pablo droppin dat fiyah foreign policy speech yesterday too (link)
Jun 12th 2019
47
RE: Bernie: Democratic Socialism Transcript
Jun 13th 2019
52
      Sanders understands capitalism is irredeemable
Jun 13th 2019
54
      This was a great speech
Jun 13th 2019
55
bernie is the only one with the record, credibility and vision
Jun 13th 2019
51
he kinda only talk bout dat one thing tho lol
Jun 13th 2019
58
for what its worth
Jun 13th 2019
59
      LOL i mean da socialist shit. he spend most his time complainin bout
Jun 13th 2019
60
           you should watch this CNN interview where he ID's corporate socialism
Jun 13th 2019
80
I agree.
Jun 13th 2019
66
Caught Gov Inslee on Democracy Now!
Jun 13th 2019
56
you left out some
Jun 13th 2019
57
Hell no. I need to know how they feel about all this shit
Jun 13th 2019
74
You don’t think climate change is a broad enough topic
Jun 13th 2019
78
      Once the field dwindles you can do this
Jun 14th 2019
87
Inslee and Castro are two that I like
Jun 13th 2019
75
LMAO GTFOOHWTBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jun 13th 2019
77
Debate field finalized - no Mike Gravel
Jun 13th 2019
79
Line Ups
Jun 14th 2019
82
      Sucks for Warren
Jun 14th 2019
84
           on first read i thought they were fairly balanced
Jun 14th 2019
85
           Yeah, they stuck Warren in Def Beat.
Jun 14th 2019
86
           It's the first one though. People will be more "excited" to watch
Jun 14th 2019
88
           First debate also has some wildcards
Jun 14th 2019
89
Bernie is still my go to right now but
Jun 14th 2019
83
its 2019. yall gotta let this goofy shit go.
Jun 14th 2019
90
Co-sign all this. Plus
Jun 14th 2019
91
she is easily my second choice.
Jun 14th 2019
92
My favs are currently Sanders, Gabbard, Warren in order.
Jun 14th 2019
97
to be clear...when they criticize warren for staying on the sidelines
Jun 14th 2019
93
      Ah my bad
Jun 14th 2019
94
      this part of her appeal is so under-discussed:
Jun 14th 2019
95
           Lol that's fair. Looking forward to it all playing out.
Jun 14th 2019
98
           ^^ with you both on all of this shit.
Jun 19th 2019
109
           I see no other candidate threading that needle like that.
Jun 24th 2019
124
      right, and we are talking about a season where no one came out
Jun 14th 2019
99
RE: its 2019. yall gotta let this goofy shit go.
Jun 14th 2019
96
ALL should watch sanders segment on '16 primary in michael moore's film
Jun 19th 2019
105
Watched part of the Trump campaign kickoff rally and got deja vu
Jun 19th 2019
100
I know a lot of people who swear he won’t get re-elected
Jun 19th 2019
101
I think people need to find a balance
Jun 19th 2019
102
      I hear you but the "fundamentals" of 2016 didn't look good for him, eith...
Jun 19th 2019
110
Nah those polls are close to the true numbers
Jun 19th 2019
103
While he isn’t invincible
Jun 19th 2019
108
      True
Jun 19th 2019
113
keep ignoring the silent 45 voter and cry me a river on election night
Jun 19th 2019
111
      definitely bothers me when they dont explain the other 10%
Jun 19th 2019
112
Man, Joe Biden sucks (link and swipe)
Jun 19th 2019
104
So this includes poor people's standards too, I assume?
Jun 19th 2019
106
      No one’s standard of living will change (c) Biden 2020
Jun 19th 2019
107
           I'm hoping he gets crushed in the primaries, Howard Dean style
Jun 19th 2019
114
More Biden sucking. test his Sister Soulja moment
Jun 19th 2019
115
This one is pretty weak
Jun 20th 2019
118
      Nah it's worse he shiting on the base
Jun 20th 2019
120
      The issue is these weren't people he really disagreed with
Jun 20th 2019
121
           I changed my mind after realizing he was talking about Dems.
Jun 24th 2019
130
Biden will fade but the DNC power structure will throw weight behind him
Jun 19th 2019
116
I’m not sure he will fade. Older voters are all in with iden
Jun 20th 2019
119
      i think people are really misinformed about what the dem base is
Jun 24th 2019
139
dems are f*cked
Jun 20th 2019
122
Bernie: I'm with him now SOLELY because of this...
Jun 24th 2019
123
I’m with it.
Jun 24th 2019
126
fuck it. if repubs can run on a wall funded by a foreign country
Jun 24th 2019
133
Federal Loans
Jun 24th 2019
146
Warren already did it, and she did it better.
Jun 24th 2019
147
      definitely
Jun 25th 2019
152
      Not facts. Actually Jill Stein made this this hallmark of
Jun 26th 2019
187
           Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Jill fuckin Stein.
Jun 26th 2019
189
                Brother Starks, I get that you want to reduce politics to merely a
Jul 03rd 2019
433
Does Corey Booker have any constituency?
Jun 24th 2019
125
Rosie
Jun 24th 2019
127
if it's Biden, we are all FUCKED...
Jun 24th 2019
128
I really feel this way
Jun 24th 2019
129
biden is 10x worse than hillary.
Jun 24th 2019
131
      agreed
Jun 24th 2019
134
      All true. He's taking the "playing not to lose" approach that ...
Jun 24th 2019
135
      I think his strategy is simple. Win Pennsylvania and Wisconsin
Jun 24th 2019
136
      I hate to agree but you are 100% correct
Jun 24th 2019
137
           The turnout numbers better be f'in historic!
Jun 24th 2019
141
                I have no idea what to expect
Jun 25th 2019
150
      this. I've been hesitant to say it/admit it
Jun 24th 2019
144
horrible frontrunner.
Jun 24th 2019
132
      This is like getting mad at the #1 pick for not throwing at the combine
Jun 24th 2019
138
      i know the point you were trying to make but its not apples:apples.
Jun 24th 2019
140
           But if he truly is in the lead???
Jun 24th 2019
142
                the point is that the candidate can and should go after both
Jun 24th 2019
143
                Personally I think he is shitting on the progressive base
Jun 25th 2019
149
                This is a big part of it
Jun 25th 2019
151
                     We know why people were passionate for Hillary
Jun 25th 2019
156
                In the lead of what? Polls? Pre-election/debate polls?
Jun 24th 2019
145
                     Yes. Those polls. Whether you like it or not it’s politics
Jun 25th 2019
148
      no lies told.
Jun 25th 2019
182
One of my least favorite complaints is accusing a candidate of stealing
Jun 25th 2019
153
One of my least favorite complaints is accusing a candidate of stealing
Jun 25th 2019
154
You cool with someone adopting your idea at work or for a film?
Jun 25th 2019
155
That's an astonishingly bad metaphor
Jun 25th 2019
157
I have no problem if someone says they stole the idea
Jun 25th 2019
161
No ideas original (c)
Jun 25th 2019
159
      Offended? No.. but he stole that shit
Jun 25th 2019
162
Definitely, but give proper attribution.
Jun 25th 2019
160
I agree, policy is where we win. Not just the candidate.
Jun 26th 2019
188
Thank you! I hate when ppl complain about this... UNLESS
Jun 28th 2019
335
Mayor Pete is the strongest candidate in my book
Jun 25th 2019
158
He’s had a bad week back home.
Jun 25th 2019
163
dude took ALL of Beto's thunder
Jun 25th 2019
165
Very bad look for him
Jun 25th 2019
168
RE: He’s had a bad week back home.
Jun 25th 2019
177
      i don't f*cking know why
Jun 25th 2019
185
the strongest candidate ? How ?
Jun 25th 2019
164
^^
Jun 25th 2019
166
Man, this doesn't seem like a good way to pick a candidate.
Jun 25th 2019
167
Bruh. You said Zuckerberg could get your vote at one time
Jun 25th 2019
169
that wasn't me picking him though
Jun 25th 2019
176
he's a lot like an old-millenial Biden
Jun 25th 2019
175
How does Beto get around immigration?
Jun 25th 2019
170
what?
Jun 25th 2019
171
So when the issue is presented...he can say not my problem?
Jun 25th 2019
172
It's crazy to me how often you double down on irrelevant "positions" lol
Jun 25th 2019
173
      lol
Jun 25th 2019
178
      child separation and detention is irrelevant?
Jun 25th 2019
180
           you know that's not what he meant
Jun 25th 2019
181
                I don't know if he does.
Jun 25th 2019
183
                     LOL exactly.
Jun 25th 2019
184
                          So...ya'll still pretending immigration isn't an issue for Beto
Jun 27th 2019
235
                               Yeah. Folks kinda went in before thinking about it.
Jun 28th 2019
352
nah this is a fair point. other candidates get called to task on their r...
Jun 25th 2019
174
      Right, I expect Pete to be taken to task on criminal justice reform
Jun 25th 2019
179
           There's a big difference there. Buttegieg is still mayor of South Bend
Jun 26th 2019
191
                Are you saying it wasn’t an issue when he was in Congress?
Jun 27th 2019
201
how do any of the dems get around immigration?
Jun 25th 2019
186
Wow, right-wing dark money groups are trolling this debate.
Jun 26th 2019
190
And on this second point, Liz has me worried right now.
Jun 26th 2019
192
So far the debate's been a contentious snooze-fest.
Jun 26th 2019
193
all the spanish was weird to me
Jun 27th 2019
217
      It's a really obvious pander.
Jun 27th 2019
225
           i have zero doubt beto is really good at spanish. just has an accent
Jun 27th 2019
226
                Yeah Castro's Spanish was completely convincing.
Jun 27th 2019
229
                     would have loved to be in bookers head when de blasio said that
Jun 27th 2019
230
I like Tulsi, but I’m not sure if its just because I want to smash.
Jun 26th 2019
194
Rules of the game: half of each debate gotta go. Who are you kicking out...
Jun 26th 2019
195
Wednesday's roster: Which 5 are you dropping?
Jun 26th 2019
196
I thought Castro elevated himself
Jun 26th 2019
199
Beto, Ryan, Delaney, Klobuchar, Gabbard
Jun 27th 2019
221
RE: Wednesday's roster: Which 5 are you dropping?
Jun 27th 2019
224
      Pretty much agree, but I'm dropping 6 for extra credit
Jun 27th 2019
232
Thursday's roster. Which 5 are you dropping?
Jun 26th 2019
197
RE: Thursday's roster. Which 5 are you dropping?
Jun 29th 2019
394
DeBlasio, Delaney, Gabbard, Ryan, Inslee gone.
Jun 26th 2019
198
Klobuchar, Delaney, Gabbard, Ryan and Inslee
Jun 27th 2019
220
Tim Ryan has a real Nick Robinson problem
Jun 27th 2019
200
I didn’t see a candidate that can beat Trumpster
Jun 27th 2019
202
the call for research is meant to reframe the issue
Jun 27th 2019
203
More guns = more gun deaths.
Jun 27th 2019
208
agreed
Jun 27th 2019
204
You're off the Tulsi Train?
Jun 27th 2019
206
      I was never on a Tulsi Train...whatever that is
Jun 27th 2019
207
           Ryan got sonned by a mannequin cosplaying as Rogue
Jun 27th 2019
223
                LOL
Jun 27th 2019
233
Castro really told Beto to go do his homework
Jun 27th 2019
205
i really hope beto drops out and runs for senate.
Jun 27th 2019
209
Is he even a promising Senate candidate anymore?
Jun 27th 2019
212
No way. His close call was solely based on buzz and excitement
Jun 27th 2019
213
john cornyn has less of a polling lead on a generic dem candidate
Jun 27th 2019
218
thats a good question.
Jun 27th 2019
216
      This seems right
Jun 27th 2019
222
      Interesting. You might be right.
Jun 27th 2019
227
Fools gold. I got caught up too.
Jun 27th 2019
231
He's got Buttigieg stealing that progressive-but-practical valor
Jun 27th 2019
211
i dont see why he would have a problem agreeing with castro
Jun 27th 2019
219
whatever that mess last night and tonight was needs to be DEADED
Jun 27th 2019
210
It wasn't a trainwreck. It was just.....
Jun 27th 2019
215
      Meh
Jun 27th 2019
228
      well that too. i tuned out after the first hour
Jun 27th 2019
234
first night of debates was a head spin
Jun 27th 2019
214
They need to take Biden down tonight. Call him out on his shit.
Jun 27th 2019
236
Heard a couple Royal Rumble type formats bandied about today
Jun 27th 2019
237
24+ million viewers watched the dem debate last night.
Jun 27th 2019
238
Was there an official explanation for how Warren got there?
Jun 27th 2019
242
      it was supposedly a random draw
Jun 27th 2019
243
           For real?
Jun 27th 2019
245
                yep, they were trying to avoid having a JV debate
Jun 27th 2019
246
                I agree
Jun 27th 2019
247
                i guess its too early to narrow down
Jun 27th 2019
248
                     I can't find his donor count
Jun 27th 2019
249
                In fact, more of the 'weirdo' candidates are on the second night.
Jun 27th 2019
                Not weird at all,
Jun 27th 2019
251
                     That does make sense
Jun 27th 2019
252
                     thanks for the info
Jun 28th 2019
309
i've changed my mind
Jun 27th 2019
239
explain
Jun 27th 2019
240
      they both spoke spanish
Jun 27th 2019
241
           Lol
Jul 02nd 2019
425
@MikeGravel rolling out Biden's greatest hits prior to the debate
Jun 27th 2019
244
In a sane society it would be between Warren & Sanders,
Jun 27th 2019
250
I'm hoping for a Sanders/Warren or Sanders/Gabbard ticket,
Jul 02nd 2019
424
Yapyapyapyapyapyapyapyapyap.
Jun 27th 2019
253
Kamala looks good tonight
Jun 27th 2019
254
      I think this night will go for her like last night did for Booker.
Jun 27th 2019
257
      Yes she does. She went after Biden hard on the busing shit.
Jun 27th 2019
269
Gillibrand is trying to get a moderator to cut her off.
Jun 27th 2019
255
She’s being pretty annoying
Jun 27th 2019
258
      lol yep. I thought they would cut her mic
Jun 27th 2019
265
      Yea borderline insufferable.
Jun 27th 2019
270
Young dude got at Biden
Jun 27th 2019
256
Bernie speaking in generalities when asked a specific question
Jun 27th 2019
259
Bernie been a mess.
Jun 27th 2019
272
Lol, Bernie pointed at the women to his left ...
Jun 27th 2019
260
why the fuck is he yelling? lol.
Jun 27th 2019
261
this marianne williamson chick is cuckoo.
Jun 27th 2019
262
what is she doing there?
Jun 27th 2019
267
      Ahaha was wondering the same thing.
Jun 27th 2019
273
      A popular red-state governor didn't make this debate.
Jun 27th 2019
277
      im in this line
Jun 28th 2019
310
I've been one of her biggest critics, but Kamala's killing it tonight
Jun 27th 2019
263
shes looking like game 6 klay out there tonight.
Jun 27th 2019
264
Nailed it - with you 100%.
Jun 27th 2019
274
not my fave candidate, but easily my fave in a debate w Trump
Jun 27th 2019
278
      LOL, yeah.
Jun 27th 2019
280
      he'd definitely say she slept her way to the top with willie brown
Jun 27th 2019
282
      Exactly, and she'd definitely take the bait and
Jun 28th 2019
315
      Nah that goes to Tulsi. Kamala vs Trump debate would just
Jun 28th 2019
312
           I like Tulsi, but she's not carrying the same debate skills
Jun 28th 2019
367
           sanders - tulsi is what i hope happens
Jun 28th 2019
388
                I don’t trust a Sanders-Gabbard ticket on foreign policy
Jun 28th 2019
389
Kamala just served Biden one of the biggest challenges he's ever faced.
Jun 27th 2019
266
she shamed him
Jun 27th 2019
268
How in the fuck was he not prepared for it?
Jun 27th 2019
271
Totally.
Jun 27th 2019
276
He could have done better on the Iraq war answer, too.
Jun 27th 2019
279
he's notorious for not being prepared or crazy tone deaf
Jun 27th 2019
281
His ego is clearly the size of Texas.
Jun 27th 2019
283
Tonight is an example of why he’s a bad GE candidate
Jun 27th 2019
285
You've always been irrationally opposed to Biden, though.
Jun 27th 2019
286
      Biden was knocked back to earth last night
Jun 28th 2019
289
      my point is Biden’s bad debate is a sample
Jun 28th 2019
314
           I should clarify something,
Jun 28th 2019
372
                LOL - totally unrelated but I just had to doublecheck your username ...
Jun 28th 2019
377
                a few things
Jun 28th 2019
382
                RE: a few things
Jun 28th 2019
391
                Why am I stuck on you calling "Weekend At Bernie's" an "old" movie?
Jun 28th 2019
385
he isnt listening to his staff.
Jun 28th 2019
290
      This is the second time in the last week and a half that Team Biden
Jun 28th 2019
299
           me neither. i know bills gotta get paid but damn.
Jun 28th 2019
311
Yep - and he deserves it.
Jun 27th 2019
275
Kamala won the night, still a long way to go
Jun 28th 2019
291
      Kamala did the Republicans a favor, shes an idiot
Jun 28th 2019
369
MARIANNE WILLIAMSON IS MICHAEL CHE'S NEIGHBOR
Jun 27th 2019
284
LOL my wife saw her speak for 5 seconds tops and said
Jun 28th 2019
316
This is going to come down to Harris vs. Warren
Jun 27th 2019
287
didnt see the debate & dont know anything about Marriane Williamson but
Jun 28th 2019
288
Hahaha oh my god.
Jun 28th 2019
317
my 2 biggest fears with biden
Jun 28th 2019
292
Obama's endorsement could help
Jun 28th 2019
308
2 days of Bern's 16' campaign platform
Jun 28th 2019
293
It was her night
Jun 28th 2019
304
Thursday debate cuts. Get rid of five
Jun 28th 2019
294
Hickenlooper, Bennet, Yang, Gillibrand, should be Biden
Jun 28th 2019
301
keep pete, harris, sanders
Jun 28th 2019
313
Yang wasn't given a chance to speak hardly.
Jun 28th 2019
332
I was in and out so I literally didn't see him speak a single word ...
Jun 28th 2019
338
      i think i remember him being called on twice
Jun 28th 2019
347
           Haha yea with NBA Finals over this is background noise like baseball
Jun 28th 2019
349
                i paid attention to the first one
Jun 28th 2019
353
RE: Thursday debate cuts. Get rid of five
Jun 28th 2019
392
new bernie supporter motto: the primary is rigged by the establishment
Jun 28th 2019
295
Yeah, saw someone say that they rigged it so he'd be on day 2
Jun 28th 2019
297
prolly because of stuff like this:
Jun 28th 2019
305
It is funny how everyone is adopting his views this time around
Jun 28th 2019
298
Ideas ain't got no owners, only spenders
Jun 28th 2019
300
True, it's also a bigger/younger field than last time
Jun 28th 2019
303
which views are 'his'?
Jun 28th 2019
306
      Really?
Jun 28th 2019
322
           i saw an interview of his from the 80s and he was on this stuff back the...
Jun 28th 2019
325
           By the time they get to Bernie he is just repeating what everyone else
Jun 28th 2019
333
           Those have been standard progressive positions for our entire lifetimes.
Jun 28th 2019
374
unreal
Jun 28th 2019
342
Marianne Williamson is the GOAT/top 3 all time
Jun 28th 2019
296
Girlfriend really loves New Zealand
Jun 28th 2019
302
playin Biden as racist adjacent prolly gonna backfire on Dems as a whole
Jun 28th 2019
307
Who made him go out in a Democratic debate in 2019
Jun 28th 2019
319
^ facts. It'd be negligent af to let him slide on this bullshit.
Jun 28th 2019
320
Had a spark when he started but now he's just garbage (c)
Jun 28th 2019
321
Damn
Jun 28th 2019
323
      Damm is right. I just dated myself as well
Jun 28th 2019
330
           This is off-topic, but you just made me realize
Jun 28th 2019
339
                Umm.. wtf?
Jun 28th 2019
350
                     Kids born on 9/12/01 will turn 18 this year
Jun 28th 2019
370
stupid convo to have when there is an actual racist in the WH
Jun 28th 2019
357
Calling people out on racism is never a stupid conversation to have.
Jun 28th 2019
364
Right, it's a primary
Jun 28th 2019
371
LOL What ? You want to postpone the convo until the General or
Jun 28th 2019
380
      Right - this is the equivalent of "it's too soon to talk gun control"
Jun 28th 2019
381
yep
Jun 28th 2019
365
Ignorning his documented record would be idiotic....
Jun 29th 2019
396
After what I saw last night from Biden, nominating him will be a mistake...
Jun 28th 2019
318
Pretty sure Joe forgot where he was at times
Jun 28th 2019
324
You had me until Bernie
Jun 28th 2019
326
Oh. You one of them dudes
Jun 28th 2019
328
Oh. That's really weird. Hope you live in a blue state then.
Jun 28th 2019
329
VA. Purple but Obama and Hillary took it
Jun 28th 2019
331
      Hm word. But you don't know how it ends in the US. And the ...
Jun 28th 2019
334
      He sounds like a Fox News watcher. SOCIALISM OH NOEES
Jun 28th 2019
337
      Totally.
Jun 28th 2019
340
      Like the military is going to take over the country! OH WAIT!!
Jun 28th 2019
341
      Oh it's fucking wild as hell.
Jun 28th 2019
344
      We thought concentration camps at the border would never happen
Jun 28th 2019
355
           What ?
Jun 28th 2019
356
           Dude is all feelings. No common sense.
Jun 28th 2019
360
           My logic is we think it will never happen here until it does
Jun 28th 2019
363
                Oh you responded to the wrong person then.
Jun 28th 2019
366
                     Well, I’m saying it will never happen
Jun 28th 2019
386
                          100%
Jun 28th 2019
393
           Yeah. You went full idiot with these examples. NKorea? FOH.
Jun 28th 2019
359
      nah no excuse for stupidity
Jun 28th 2019
348
           Very true.
Jun 28th 2019
351
      everybody wants to attribute adverse opinion to fox news
Jun 28th 2019
362
           I mean, if someone wants to repeat Fox talking points . . .
Jun 28th 2019
376
           Haha right
Jun 28th 2019
379
           When you mention Bernie Sanders, North Korea and Venezuela
Jun 28th 2019
384
                and Venezuela has an EMPIRE doing all kinds of coup-type shit
Jun 28th 2019
387
                     I don’t want to hear shit from any Trumpians on Venezuela
Jun 28th 2019
390
      Bernie isn't the only alternative to Trump fascism
Jun 30th 2019
399
           I never said Bernie was the only alternative to Trump fascism.
Jun 30th 2019
410
      You sound dumb tho
Jun 28th 2019
336
      lol right
Jun 28th 2019
345
      I've met way too many people who think this
Jun 28th 2019
346
      SMH
Jun 28th 2019
343
           It’s worse.
Jun 28th 2019
354
           Call me every name you want
Jun 28th 2019
358
                Ok. We will.
Jun 28th 2019
361
                LOL right. It's like, we did. And you are.
Jun 28th 2019
368
                Well, you've got the Expertise
Jun 28th 2019
373
                I have too, in France. It was pretty chill tbh
Jun 28th 2019
375
                LOL
Jun 28th 2019
378
                Yes we should aspire to be more like France
Jun 30th 2019
400
                You watched the wrong movie
Jun 28th 2019
383
                Your logic is because you are concerned about authoritarian regimes...
Jun 30th 2019
397
                the dogpiling here is... strange. And indicative of where we are at
Jun 30th 2019
401
                     because hes echoing literal right wing talking points
Jun 30th 2019
404
                     100.
Jun 30th 2019
412
                     LOL That's not what happen
Jun 30th 2019
405
                     100.
Jun 30th 2019
413
                     Lmao. First the NBA Finals and now this?? Smh
Jun 30th 2019
407
                     it's very strange
Jul 01st 2019
416
I think Bernie will lose in a general election too
Jun 30th 2019
402
      fam we have already swung toward someone socialist!
Jun 30th 2019
406
      LOL !!
Jun 30th 2019
411
      Kook in the Senate?
Jul 02nd 2019
426
There isn’t a good economy in the rust belt states
Jun 28th 2019
327
yea im with Kamala
Jun 29th 2019
395
her going full prosecutor in a debate will be epic
Jun 30th 2019
403
Kudos for Kamala, but that ish wont work on Trump
Jun 30th 2019
398
We don’t know how any of these candidates will look next to Trump
Jun 30th 2019
408
I agree. I think that's the best any of them can do. I just don't buy i...
Jul 01st 2019
417
Could not disagree more
Jun 30th 2019
409
      You mean like this?
Jun 30th 2019
414
           No. Not like that...at all.
Jun 30th 2019
415
kamala catapults to 2nd place in new cnn post-debate poll.
Jul 01st 2019
418
another poll shows biden up only 2 points on harris (virtual tie).
Jul 02nd 2019
429
btw heres what the current dem party actually looks like
Jul 01st 2019
419
is there a big divide between liberal and progressive dem/soc?
Jul 01st 2019
420
Those people look confused
Jul 01st 2019
421
Honestly. I was reading those thinking
Jul 01st 2019
422
Yep
Jul 01st 2019
423
not to mention self labels aren't the way to go here
Jul 02nd 2019
428
some clarity: 'which label do you *most* identify with?'
Jul 02nd 2019
430
      Oh
Jul 02nd 2019
431
Ok, they can be President of the Democratic Party. But in the GENERAL
Jul 02nd 2019
427
Reminder: candidates (including Trump) win by being seen as moderate.
Jul 02nd 2019
432
Minimum wage, health care, foreign policy, etc isn't fucking LEFT.
Jul 03rd 2019
434
RE: Minimum wage, health care, foreign policy, etc isn't fucking LEFT.
Jul 03rd 2019
439
This assumes that public opinion is static and never moves
Jul 03rd 2019
435
Well, first, no it doesn't.
Jul 03rd 2019
436
      some positions arent even popular with the base.
Jul 03rd 2019
437
      When they all raised their hand for undocumented univ healthcare smh
Jul 03rd 2019
443
           shit made absolutely no sense.
Jul 03rd 2019
444
                People are gonna be coming in on tourist visas to get their hips replace...
Jul 03rd 2019
446
      and to reinforce your other point...'never hillary' voters were largely
Jul 03rd 2019
438
      Which voters?
Jul 03rd 2019
440
           ^^^^^^^ This right here
Jul 03rd 2019
441
           The ones who will show up to vote! Don't play dumb.
Jul 03rd 2019
442
                You are saying absolutely nothing
Jul 03rd 2019
445
                I’m afraid people won’t listen to everything you’re saying
Jul 03rd 2019
448
Dems would have to go very left to make Trump moderate
Jul 03rd 2019
447
I think this is right an the eventual Dem Nominee will need to remind vo...
Aug 07th 2019
453
kamala harris has been pretty disappointing.
Aug 07th 2019
449
seemed like she thought she had it in the bag after the first debate
Aug 07th 2019
450
      yeah just overall sloppy on the policy front.
Aug 07th 2019
452
for what its worth beto put some plans up
Aug 07th 2019
451

mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
10415 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 10:26 AM

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1. "i really dont like how the media keeps propping biden as the answer"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

they keep distorting his poll numbers to imply he is the only one that can beat trump.

i love bernie and warren on policy. i would be super happy to see either get the nomination.

warren vs trump worries me. most people are not voting on policy and she doesnt seem to captivate people as much as some other candidates.

pete is in a weird place for me. he has had some negative moments and hes become so repetitive to me. i think he has a real chance.

im not discounting beto yet.

i think the nominee will be one of those five. biden is my biggest meh out of those five.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
14328 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 10:32 AM

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3. "Ha!! I didn't see your post while I was typing mine"
In response to Reply # 1
Wed Jun-12-19 10:36 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

  

          

We hit on all the same things. Crazy lol

I agree with you on everything but Beto. I change the channel every time he pops up (which thankfully isn't often anymore). I'm discounting him

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3370 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 12:17 PM

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22. "Warren is far more captivating than we/I gave her credit for"
In response to Reply # 1


          


Have you seen her speeches/townhalls?

I dunno man. When I first saw a few speeches I was surprised.

Obviously its a small sample, but anyone who listens to her becomes a fan in my experience.

  

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Marauder21
Charter member
49515 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 12:18 PM

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23. "Caught her on that Chris Hayes town hall"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

and that was enough to convince me she can hang in a non policy/academic fashion.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
10415 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 12:19 PM

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24. "ive mostly seen interviews "
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

some town halls. shes not bad at all but i wouldnt say charisma is her strength.

her content should be enough to excite folks.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
14328 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 10:31 AM

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2. "It feels like Biden is running as the heir apparent "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

His strategy is to pretend like there isn't a primary. Which I think is the best way to go for him. I don't think he'll convince people to vote for him. He will convince people to just go with the flow.

My preferred candidate is probably Warren. But I don't know if she can cut through the noise of Trump. She won't get people riled up like Trump or Bernie.
I'm liking Mayor Pete a little more each day. It seems like he could get some momentum going.
Never liked Beto. I'm glad he's falling by the wayside. Does a lot of talking, never says anything.

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
10415 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 10:36 AM

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5. "i dont agree about beto"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

BUT im biased. when i hear him speak he touches on a lot of policy. i see him a lot like pete. they dont want to be too specific on policies to not give the gop something to tie them to. you know if they make a promise of you can keep your doctor then the gop finds a way to make it not true they will just to be able to call you out on it. instead they talk about the goal. what they want to accomplish and leave the details for later.

i think his knocking down existing barriers at the border is going to bite him. he wont shake that off.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62310 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 11:24 AM

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15. "I was excited for Beto but I can’t lie"
In response to Reply # 5


          

I haven’t been looking for any of these folks to hear what they are saying right now.

It’s like he has been bounced by the media already.

Booty Pete took his spot.

shut up already, damn

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
10415 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 11:28 AM

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16. "agreed on all of that"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

pete replaced beto 100%

beto has been pretty bad at staying relevant. luckily for him this thing hasnt really started yet. he still has a chance to show and prove but if he doesnt make a jump by the time july is done hes probably done.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130014 posts
Thu Jun-13-19 11:14 AM

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65. "'Running as the heir apparent' is one reason 2016 was lost."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

ain't no "heirs"... especially now.

this should be a post-GWB situation again, but Biden is absolutely not the answer to that.

  

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naame
Charter member
20638 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 10:36 AM

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4. "which candidate will make the first threat of violence"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean Joe already said if he was in high school he would have punched trump. Not to say that as a former vice president he could have done it while trump was questioning obama's citizenship and religion. I think Trump earned the asswhooping back in 2011. However, there will be one of these candidates who may make another veiled threat of violence against Trump, McConnell, or Pence...

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
44184 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 10:42 AM

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6. "Real Talk: I think they can all beat Trump. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

See this poll?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/biden-leads-trump-landslide-latest-141956034.html

The top 5 beat him. It's also funny that Biden has commanding support from Women over Men.

Anyway, I just don't see Trump gaining any new voters in the last 4 years and he HAS to be losing tons of supporter from moderates who voted for him. All this from a guy who barely won.

None of the people running have negatives as high as Hillary Clinton and I think that was the BIG thing everyone overlooked. That Clinton hate was strong and we ignored it.

I could be wrong and we should campaign like I am wrong, but I am saying here now that I think Trump will be pummelled.

I want it to be Warren, think it will be Biden and I wouldn't be mad at it.

I think Warren will spike after debates but I don't know if it will be enough. Folks will Pick Biden I think because they are scared of Trump and taking a chance.

I think they all pick Kamala Harris as Veep. Maybe not Warren (TWO WOMEN OMG THE HORROR), but maybe Warren as well.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
10415 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 10:49 AM

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7. "i hope so"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>I think Warren will spike after debates

  

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Marauder21
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Wed Jun-12-19 10:56 AM

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10. "They definitely can"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

I don't think Trump has had an approval rating ahead of the mid-40's his whole term. Which is why the idea that there's only one candidate who can say the magic words to beat Trump is so maddening. He barely won when (enough midwestern white) people could still pretend like he was going to govern for them, now he has a shitty record to run on.

Not saying it will be a cakewalk, but he's plenty vulnerable.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Jun-12-19 12:07 PM

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21. "we all believed polls last time"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

I remember the 538 guy getting shit because he gave Trump a 10% chance instead of 1% (made up numbers but still)

I def don't see him gaining support, but despite these articles every week about some dissapointed trucker or farmer, people on board seem as loyal to him as ever

with the electoral college and voter suppression and fake news and shitty msm, i can easily see him squeaking it out again

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
11769 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 01:52 PM

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32. "538 gave Trump a better than 1 in 3 chance on election night."
In response to Reply # 21


          


A lot of people, especially in the press, think/claim the polls were wrong because they want to think the polls were wrong. In reality, they were actually quite accurate. A lot of people just refused to believe them. They also shifted rapidly in the last couple weeks thanks to Jim Comey.

A few aggregators were way off because they made the freshman-stats mistake of ignoring correlations between the different state polls. This was the issue with Sam Wang (who should probably get out of the business after giving Hillary >99% odds), and to a lesser extent Upshot (who I think gave Trump 1 in 10 odds on election day, which was presumably an underestimate though still very compatible with Trump winning). I hope now that we have more and more data scientists out there that news organizations will hire them and be smarter with their analysis.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62310 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 03:57 PM

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40. "She lost that shit because she didn’t hit the rust belt hard"
In response to Reply # 32


          

Plain and simple.

The polls were wrong simply because they all had Hillary winning PA, Michigan and Wisconsin.

shut up already, damn

  

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rzaroch36
Member since Jan 26th 2005
2428 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 09:51 PM

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48. "RE: She lost that shit because she didn’t hit the rust belt hard"
In response to Reply # 40


          

She lost because people are stupid and said people voted for Trump. Stop blaming Hillary.

.
*****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5P6zdlPJ34&feature=related
^^^ever walked the streets of...

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62310 posts
Thu Jun-13-19 05:33 AM

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53. "True.... but it’s also the reason she should’ve went back to Wiscons..."
In response to Reply # 48


          

passing out on 9/11 didn’t help either

shut up already, damn

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3370 posts
Thu Jun-13-19 11:52 AM

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69. "stop...she definitely should have hit the rust belt harder"
In response to Reply # 48


          


This is an objective fact.

Yes, people are stupid, racist, etc- all of that.


But you still have to run a good candidate and a smart campaign.


Folks can disagree on the strength of her as a candidate I suppose, but the campaign was objectively bad.

And its okay for Dems and Hillary fans everywhere to admit that. It doesn't make Hillary a bad person and it doesn't make you a bad Democrat to just step back and say "yeah, they could have ran that better"

Thats how the party will (hopefully) learn and do better this time out.


If it really is "people are stupid" and has nothing to do with the candidate and campaign of our side, why are we even trying for 2020 then?

People are still stupid, no?

If the Dem wins, are people less stupid now?

  

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rzaroch36
Member since Jan 26th 2005
2428 posts
Thu Jun-13-19 03:25 PM

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76. "You are right"
In response to Reply # 69


          

I’m cynical AF right now.

Don’t want to re-litigate the hillary candidacy. I just tend to blame “him” and “the “ more than her.

.
*****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5P6zdlPJ34&feature=related
^^^ever walked the streets of...

  

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rzaroch36
Member since Jan 26th 2005
2428 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 09:52 PM

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49. "They should all beat him."
In response to Reply # 6


          

My dumb ass dog should beat him.

The fact that it’s even a question is depressing.

.
*****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5P6zdlPJ34&feature=related
^^^ever walked the streets of...

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71013 posts
Wed Jun-19-19 10:41 PM

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117. "They all can but who will? And who will move the party FORWARD?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

If the Dems quit playing grabass and being greedy, they can put together a substantive platform that could give them a level of control that would defy the historic ebbs and flows of American politics. But they are SOOOOOOOO far from doing either of those things that they are floundering out there against the mix of the corrupt and inept (but very driven and single-minded) that the GOP has to offer.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
15724 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 10:49 AM

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8. "RE: Dem primary summer temperature check"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>Questions: Who do you want to be the nominee? Who do you think
>will be the nominee? Are they the same person? Is anyone
>growing/fading on you?

I would like as my 1st choice Warren, 2nd Sanders. I believe the ticket is going to be Warren/Buttigieg
>
>Who do you think has the best chance to defeat Trump? Who do
>you think wouldn't fare well against him? Honestly, I don't know. Nothing about this guy makes sense. The one thing that I am very hopeful is that I have a niece and nephew who will be voting in a presidential election for the 1st time. According to them, their peers are engaged. Especially since we live in FL and the parkland shooting happened in our county.

I also don't like that Bidden is being treated and he is acting like the panacea for Prez dummy.

Regardless though, I and the majority of people will be voting for whoever the democratic candidate is.

My question to people is what are they going to do to help? I am committing to volunteering for the campaign. I will be using m,y weekends for this for a while.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
10415 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 10:52 AM

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9. "are you picking a horse and campaigning for them in the primaries?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

or once someone locks up the nomination you will campaign for them?

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
15724 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 11:11 AM

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12. "The candidate "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Even Biden. I want to do more than vote and donate this time.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
10415 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 11:14 AM

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13. "i feel you, i need to do the same"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

i think before theres a nominee its good to spread positive info about anyone that youre feeling. i really dont like people pushing one specific candidate as the only choice right now, especially at the expense of distorting other candidates.

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
15724 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 11:41 AM

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17. "Agreed, but the one thing I can't help shake is that Biden will be the n..."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

It'll be just like Hillary/Sander, where the primaries will go to name recognition.

I don't know though. Only thing we can do is wait and see.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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18. "im definitely worried biden is hillary pt 2"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

hes not at all as hated as her but i think the potential is there just on the connection to obama. thats a big positive to a lot of people but a big negative to just as many.

  

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Marauder21
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11. "Last couple months, I'm way up on Warren"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Kinda down on Mayor Pete.

Right now, the only person who I would feel like I'm holding my nose to vote for is Biden. The idea that if Trump goes away, the Republicans (who shit on his old boss for eight years) will just realize that they were wrong and will be willing to play ball with him and form a governing coalition is disqualifying IMO. I don't know if he genuinely believes this or if he's just pretending to be naive because it's what old white Dems in Iowa want to hear, but actually governing like that will be a disaster.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Wed Jun-12-19 12:25 PM

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25. "I'm here too"
In response to Reply # 11


          


I'm not just up on her policies, etc...but her ability to campaign has been impressive. She was low not that long ago. The more people hear, the more people like. That is a good sign.

Compared to someone like Biden or Bernie, where there is nothing new to learn...and both dipping in the polls as others rise.

I also like that she is putting in work, going everywhere, etc.


I'm all in on Warren at this point.


>Kinda down on Mayor Pete.


I was never super high on him, but I could see him being the nom's veep.


>
>Right now, the only person who I would feel like I'm holding
>my nose to vote for is Biden. The idea that if Trump goes
>away, the Republicans (who shit on his old boss for eight
>years) will just realize that they were wrong and will be
>willing to play ball with him and form a governing coalition
>is disqualifying IMO. I don't know if he genuinely believes
>this or if he's just pretending to be naive because it's what
>old white Dems in Iowa want to hear, but actually governing
>like that will be a disaster.

Right. Every time Biden opens his mouth, he proves what a walking disaster he is.

I refuse to believe he honestly thinks they will work with him. In fact, I don't think he really cares if the GOP works with him or not because it seems like he doesn't think they are that bad.

Or, he's thinking "they'll work with me because I'm white" or some shit.


I saw a tweet the other day that said "Why doesn't Biden just run against Trump in the GOP primary?"...and its on point as fuck when you really think about it.



  

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Marauder21
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38. "Even if it is this"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>Or, he's thinking "they'll work with me because I'm white" or
>some shit.

They impeached Clinton (a guy who was willing to sign off on at least some of their agenda) just because they could. It's never going to be 1971 again.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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61. "Oh I agree...just pointing out the arrogance"
In response to Reply # 38


          


combined with stupidity on his part.

  

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Walleye
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63. "And he'd characterize his left opponents as "impractical""
In response to Reply # 61


          

A fully nationalized healthcare program, end to exploitative foreign intervention, free childcare and college, and increased worker control of corporations are all far more realistic political objectives than getting Republicans to work with him on anything. And he was vice president for eight years while he watched this dynamic fully unfold.

Arrogance is right. This is the ultimate vanity campaign.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Thu Jun-13-19 11:15 AM

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67. "RE: he was vice president for eight years while he watched this dynamic ..."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

I brought this up IRT BHO

Power was being consolidated in the executive branch during the W administrations

BHO is a constitutional scholar

The idea that he didn't know it was happening and couldn't do anything to restore power to the other branches of government...is insulting to his intelligence and ours

They knew the dangers...and didn't do shit

Probably thought they'd get to keep the ball with HRC

Enter Trumpster...and here we are

Kind of excited at the potential of somebody holding the Obama administration at least somewhat accountable for Trumpster being able to do whatever the fuck he wants

Biden will not have a good answer for that.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Jun-13-19 11:41 AM

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68. "Every politician knows the real answer. "
In response to Reply # 38


          


But you can't just say "I won't get anything done, but neither would any of the other candidates. You need to grow up and stop caring about people's policy promises so we can at least hold back the continuing right-wing flood to the federal courts." It doesn't sound good to primary voters.

It's an obvious reality that nobody is allowed to point out.

It is a little funny that the people who keep saying that American politics is irredeemably broken also seem to think that one presidential candidate would do so much better than another presidential candidate.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu Jun-13-19 11:58 AM

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70. "sure but there is a big difference between"
In response to Reply # 68
Thu Jun-13-19 11:59 AM by Stadiq

          

not saying the quiet part out loud and what Biden is doing.

The fever will break, the fog will lift, the epiphany will come...grandpa looks fucking clueless at best.


>
>It's an obvious reality that nobody is allowed to point out.
>
>It is a little funny that the people who keep saying that
>American politics is irredeemably broken also seem to think
>that one presidential candidate would do so much better than
>another presidential candidate.
>

In office? I mean, that depends on a lot of things of course- I know how cynical you are about the near future there so there really isn't a debate to be had.


But to get elected? Obviously one candidate can do a lot better than the other.


And in this particular case, Biden running around shitting on the left, excusing/defending/ignoring reality with regards to the GOP, name dropping Obama every 7 minutes, and still saying creepy shit isn't the play.


And with regards to how effective a Dem Pres could be, might as well elect someone with some sense, a grasp of what the other side is capable of, and maybe even a willingness to fight back.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Fri Jun-14-19 10:28 AM

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81. "RE: sure but there is a big difference between"
In response to Reply # 70


          

>not saying the quiet part out loud and what Biden is doing.
>
>The fever will break, the fog will lift, the epiphany will
>come...grandpa looks fucking clueless at best.

So when Barack Obama said exactly the same thing ("The fever will break"), was he being a clueless grandpa?

I think he was giving people false hope (and likely indulging in a bit of his own false hope), but sometimes that's the job of a politician. Again, you can't just come out and say "We're fucked, it's the Constitution's fault, and we're never gonna see it fixed," even if that's the clear reality to anyone paying attention.


>>It's an obvious reality that nobody is allowed to point out.
>
>>
>>It is a little funny that the people who keep saying that
>>American politics is irredeemably broken also seem to think
>>that one presidential candidate would do so much better than
>>another presidential candidate.
>>
>
>In office? I mean, that depends on a lot of things of course-
>I know how cynical you are about the near future there so
>there really isn't a debate to be had.

LOL, so you think there might be something that someone could do to pass permanent reforms (even very modest ones) while the Senate is in Republican control?

>But to get elected? Obviously one candidate can do a lot
>better than the other.

ABSOLUTELY! I'm glad we can agree on that.

And clearly Joe Biden is the most electable candidate in this primary! He's electable in part because of his connection to a popular former president. But also because he's doing the best job resisting the pressure to satisfy his unpopular base.

You know I don't like Biden, I don't trust him, I'm not inspired by him, I don't think he'd be as successful a president as Warren, Harris, Booker, Gillibrand, even Buttigieg. But I expect I'll vote for him in the primary because he's obviously the one most likely to win a general election.


>And in this particular case, Biden running around shitting on
>the left,

A very good way to win support in the general electorate.

>excusing/defending/ignoring reality with regards to
>the GOP,

Again, precisely what the general electorate wants.

>name dropping Obama every 7 minutes,

He should see if he can shave that down to every three minutes.

>and still saying
>creepy shit

I'll give you that.

>isn't the play.

Here's a rule of thumb for general election strategy: if it pisses off you and most other OKP's, then it's likely precisely the best political move.

>And with regards to how effective a Dem Pres could be, might
>as well elect someone with some sense, a grasp of what the
>other side is capable of,

Now wait a second, we got here because Biden gave an admittedly unrealistic answer to the question of how he'd accomplish his policy proposals.

But none of the other candidates have answered the question at all! They're in a land of complete make-believe, seeming to believe their proposals will pass on their willpower alone. The most egregious of these offenders, by the way, is your preferred candidate and mine, Liz Warren, whose campaign seems to produce another implausible reform every week without even a hint of how it would get through the congress. But Biden's the only clueless grandpa?

>and maybe even a willingness to
>fight back.

Fight back how?

Saying things to excite the single-digit percentage of the country who consider themselves to be progressive activists is not fighting back! All it does is prove one's own fecklessness.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62310 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 11:19 AM

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14. "Warren has my vote right now. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

shut up already, damn

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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27. "What!!? What was the change for you?"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

I remember you being down on her. If she can get you I can put in work to get my brother (who is Biden at the moment).


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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41. "I’ve always been a fan of hers based on policy"
In response to Reply # 27


          

It’s just her visual and delivery that give me reservations.

I’m shallow tho... I don’t really think policies are enough to win elections anymore. You have to be big and have a nice show.

I still think think it’s Bidens to lose based on America.

shut up already, damn

  

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shygurl
Member since Oct 08th 2002
12671 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 11:50 AM

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19. "Bernie and Biden are my least liked candidates."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I have no preference right now besides anybody but them.

_______________________________
“It sounds plausible enough tonight, but wait until tomorrow. Wait for the common sense of the morning.”

— H.G. Wells, The Time Machine

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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20. "why not bernie?"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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29. "I don't like Bernie because he is old and unaccomplished and I question...."
In response to Reply # 20
Wed Jun-12-19 01:21 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

how effective he would be as President.

I think he benefitted a great deal from challenging the bequeathed Hillary Clinton. Now that he has a bigger group to be compared against he just doesn't seem that impressive.

Elizabeth Warren is a younger, shinier, more accomplished and even arguably more progressive version of Bernie. I can't see how anyone would go for Bernie over her (but can see it the other way around).

He may be on the right side of history on a lot of issues but nothing in his legislative history tells us he can get things done.


I question his electability as an old Jewish New Englander with regards to the rest of the country.

I see him and see George McGovern all over again.

If he is the nom I will of course vote for him but like Dukakis, Hillary, Mondale Kerry, I feel like if we nominate him and he loses we will be slapping our foreheads and go, what were we thinking?






**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Wed Jun-12-19 02:34 PM

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35. "Yo same. I can't get on the Bernie train and I don't exactly know why. "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Mynoriti
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26. "Who will drop out first?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

at least among recognizable names. Or better yet, who will be second after DeBlasio?

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Jun-12-19 02:00 PM

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33. "Ironically, possibly Warren (among major candidates). "
In response to Reply # 26
Wed Jun-12-19 02:01 PM by stravinskian

          

She's all-in on Iowa. If she doesn't make top 3 in Iowa, and then if she has a disastrous showing in New Hampshire (which the polls indicate now, despite her being from a neighboring state), then her already weak fundraising will go off a cliff.

It's also feeling like Kirsten Gillibrand (who I generally like) is having more trouble catching on than can be sustainable for the long haul.

Beto might quietly drop out and hope nobody notices if he can't come in top-5 in some of the early states. Possibly Castro as well, but I think he's running for VP, so he wants to do as many debates as he can even if he isn't winning states.

  

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Marauder21
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36. "I keep forgetting Gilibrand is running"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Which is unfortunate, she's not bad and I think she's been handling herself in the Trump era better than a lot of Senate D's. But I can't see her making it into 2020.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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37. "If Beto has some sense, it'll be him."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

I think he's already "rebooted" his campaign already. Couldn't tell you for sure, because he's barely cracking the consciousness.

He can still run for senate. And win. Unless he's jockeying for VP like Castro or Abrahams, there's no percentage in him staying in the race. And honestly, he'd be a better Senator than a VP.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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39. "he needs to knock it out of the park in the first debate"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

i think odds are that your are right.

  

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rob
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73. "Please!"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

That Senate seat is nearly as important, and he’s the only one who has a chance.

He should drop out and spin it for the good of a Texas and in support of the national party before being embarrassed in the primaries brands him as a loser.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Wed Jun-12-19 04:03 PM

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43. "can some still run for senate? Like Beto, "
In response to Reply # 26


          


dude from Colorado, dude from MT, etc?

Are there others with Senate seats up in their home state?


I mean, damn....wouldn't winning a Senate seat be better than taking 12th place in the pres primary?


Chucky must be bad at recruiting too. What the fuck is that guy good for?

  

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jane eyre
Member since Jan 16th 2007
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Wed Jun-12-19 05:18 PM

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45. "Ha."
In response to Reply # 43


          

>Chucky must be bad at recruiting too. What the fuck is that guy good for?

Right?

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Jun-13-19 01:43 AM

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50. "schumer is fucking terrible."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

no abrams in ga. no beto in tx. he failed to convince top tier senate candidates in ia and nc too.

hickenlooper would have been a shoe-in in co. he wouldnt have even had to run a campaign really. but now dude is making an ass out of himself in the prez race...first being terrified to say he was a capitalist on morning joe...now basically just running an anti-socialist campaign lol.

the dem gov of mt...one of the most popular govs in the country...had a great shot at winning that senate seat since he has a ton more name recognition than the repub incumbent and people really like him. now hes just out here complaining about the dem debate requirements because he joined the contest late and cant garner up the necessary support. completely wasted campaign/candidate.

all of these folks...even if they didnt win...would drive turnout across the entire state and deliver a bunch of down ticket seats and maybe even deliver the state to the dem prez nominee in places like tx and ga. hh

------

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu Jun-13-19 11:07 AM

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62. "yeah man...what would it take"
In response to Reply # 50


          


to get new leadership in the senate? Is it unheard of? Dude is terrible...


Is it really just who has been there the longest or some shit?


>no abrams in ga. no beto in tx. he failed to convince top
>tier senate candidates in ia and nc too.

I mean, I sort of get why Beto didn't run for senate initially. He was gassed up. We were gassed up for him. But now? Petey is eating his lunch and the writing is on the wall.

I'm not sure how you switch races and save face, but dude should try.



>
>hickenlooper would have been a shoe-in in co. he wouldnt have
>even had to run a campaign really. but now dude is making an
>ass out of himself in the prez race...first being terrified to
>say he was a capitalist on morning joe...now basically just
>running an anti-socialist campaign lol.
>
>the dem gov of mt...one of the most popular govs in the
>country...had a great shot at winning that senate seat since
>he has a ton more name recognition than the repub incumbent
>and people really like him. now hes just out here complaining
>about the dem debate requirements because he joined the
>contest late and cant garner up the necessary support.
>completely wasted campaign/candidate.

These two dudes running for Pres rather than Senate is insane. Obviously it falls on the candidates and their people to have some sense, but Dem leadership really dropped the ball here.

>
>all of these folks...even if they didnt win...would drive
>turnout across the entire state and deliver a bunch of down
>ticket seats and maybe even deliver the state to the dem prez
>nominee in places like tx and ga. hh

Exactly. I imagine we read the same article- the one that breaks all this down and talks about how the GOP gets the importance of power. You have to have power to do anything. The Dems just don't get it.

Is there a frontrunner candidate for Maine yet?

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Thu Jun-13-19 11:11 AM

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64. "you know, maybe that is how you save face"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

>I mean, I sort of get why Beto didn't run for senate
>initially. He was gassed up. We were gassed up for him. But
>now? Petey is eating his lunch and the writing is on the
>wall.
>
>I'm not sure how you switch races and save face, but dude
>should try.
>

you save face of dropping out of running for pres by saying youre supporting the part and greater good by running for senate instead and endorse someone running for pres.

i didnt see him on colbert but apparently he asked him why not senate lol i felt that was a bit foul but so colbert. it would have been a good plant question though if he is thinking of pivoting to a senate run.

doubt it happens but maybe

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
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Thu Jun-13-19 02:11 PM

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72. "thatd be dope. he could start a movement wit all dem lower tier mfs"
In response to Reply # 64


          



on sum come wit me lets save da country! shit

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
1399 posts
Thu Jun-13-19 02:09 PM

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71. "susan rice was gonna challenge collins but she passed on it"
In response to Reply # 62


          


>
>Is there a frontrunner candidate for Maine yet?
>
>

at dis point im startin to think its a REASON mfs dont wanna run for senate

like maybe schumer an abusive dbag behind da scenes or sum shit?

who knows yo

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Jun-12-19 01:20 PM

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28. "Warren seems the most steady/complete"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i just hope she gets better at being a politician, but substance wise she's the clear winner for me.

I'm still a pretty big fan of what i've seen of Mayor Pete so far. I'm really just going off interviews i've seen with him. but I do wonder if we are underestimating how homophobic america still is.

My opinions on Bernie and Biden I'll admit are mad petty and have nothing to do with either of the candidates themselves. I like Bernie but I find his fanbase cultish, and lowkey i kinda just want them to lose. Same goes for progressive twitter and the thinkpiece verse constant whining about Biden. Again, i'm not saying they don't have any valid points. i'm just saying my own reasons are petty.

Beto fizzled out. He never recovered from his boring announcement. He's small time.

Kamala. i don't have much of an opinion either way.

Yang. he's a one issue guy, and i appreciate what he's doing. he has no business being president though

Booker - nah

Kloubochar (sp?) - i kinda like her i guess but i don't know much

Gillibrand - I've always liked her for the most part. It seems she's being largely ignored.

the rest - nah


--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
42212 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 01:38 PM

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30. "I really don't have strong feelings about any of them either way"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Like others have said, I like Warren on policy the most.

But when I think about all the "serious" candidates (Warren, Harris, Biden, etc.), I haven't given any serious thought to who I would vote for in the primary.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Jun-12-19 01:40 PM

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31. "My hopes are rising again for Warren."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jun-12-19 02:09 PM by stravinskian

          

(It feels a little weird to be in agreement with so many around here again.)

She was always the candidate that I wanted but who I knew couldn't win. Now she's on an upswing, though.

To be clear, for me it ISN'T about her policy prescriptions (some of which are really good, some of which are clearly just meant to be candy for 'progressives'). People think they're being serious about politics when they judge candidates on policy positions, but it's really a very skin-deep analysis, especially nowadays. As I've noted around here many times: no permanent or large-scale policy changes will happen for the left until the nation outgrows this stage of media-driven hyperpartisanship, and I don't see that happening in my lifetime. So most policy proposals that candidates make are fundamentally dishonest. The presidency is a temp job nowadays.

What I like about Warren, though (and this is evidenced by her policy-heavy campaigning), is that she takes a fundamentally intellectual, informed, technocratic approach to her work. This is something I liked about the Obama years, something I saw in Hillary Clinton; and Sanders's lack of this is the main reason I've always been so vehemently opposed to him. Warren isn't left-wing because of some "movement." She's left-wing because she spends time studying how the world works.

Even though I don't see Warren (or anybody) making the kind of fundamental changes their policy prescriptions imply, there's still important day-to-day work that a president does, executive actions, bureau staffing and directives, that sort of thing, and also just being an icon for what America represents to itself and to the world. I like the idea that we'd have a smart, intellectual person doing this job.

I still think there's a little-recognized anti-intellectual fervor among the public these days, partially among the Democratic primary electorate, but obviously even more so among the general electorate, so that still makes me worry that she'd be at a disadvantage in the general election.

She's also reportedly having significant difficulties with fundraising. This is already changing, I'm sure, as she's getting more attention in the primary. However, this problem would get a lot more serious in the general election. She's pledged not to accept any high-dollar donations, but we still don't have evidence that you can fund a general election campaign that way. I read somewhere that her finance chair supposedly resigned over this promise not to take large donations.

I still think Kamala is probably a stronger general-election candidate if she can make it there. Or Biden, if he keeps his idiot mouth shut. I'd be happy with pretty much any of these candidates (apart from vanity candidates like Williamson, Yang, Gabbard, Sanders, Swalwell, Gravel, ...).

  

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jane eyre
Member since Jan 16th 2007
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Wed Jun-12-19 02:04 PM

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34. "RE: Dem primary summer temperature check"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jun-12-19 02:07 PM by jane eyre

          

>Questions: Who do you want to be the nominee?

I don't know, yet.

At this point, I'm giving serious consideration to Warren, Harris, and Buttigieg.

Buttigieg would have my outright vote, but I need to see more. I don't think he has enough of the right experience. I'd like to see him hold a position that offers more exposure to larger parts of the electorate (that's not the job of president). I do, however, think he's more than capable of learning "on the job." He's still kind of my vanity candidate.

If those 3 candidates begin to show significant issues, at this point, I'm still open to considering other people.

>Who do you think will be the nominee?

No idea. I'm clearest about who the nominee *won't* be.

I wish those candidates were clear, too, and would get out of the race.

>Are they the same person?

Could be.

>Is anyonegrowing/fading on you?

Harris has faded for me.
Biden has never been my preference, yet, he's managed to fade. Fast.

>Who do you think has the best chance to defeat Trump?

In no particular order: Buttigieg, Warren, Harris.

>Who do you think wouldn't fare well against him?

Everybody else, to varying degrees.

>Polls seem to show Biden as a solid front runner.

I kind of think that will change. Maybe not. I think it will. Lol.

  

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makaveli
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Wed Jun-12-19 04:03 PM

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42. "my favorite at the moment is Warren"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I used to love her and then I didn't like her as much and now I like her more again. She's smart, she's tough, and she seems genuine. I don't really trust Bernie. I think Pete is really smart and I like him, I'd like to see him in congress. Everyone else except Kamala and Joe should just give up. As long as they don't elect Hitler I will vote for whoever goes against Trump.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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Wed Jun-12-19 04:34 PM

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44. "I like Warren"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If she gets the nom she needs to pick somebody really animated who sounds like they will smack somebody in the face with a brick as her running mate

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Wed Jun-12-19 05:23 PM

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46. "Bernie: Democratic Socialism Transcript"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

idk man, when bernie talks that talk its hard to not line up with him.

https://www.vox.com/2019/6/12/18663217/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialism-speech-transcript

kind of long to swipe

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
1399 posts
Wed Jun-12-19 07:40 PM

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47. "petey pablo droppin dat fiyah foreign policy speech yesterday too (link)"
In response to Reply # 46


          


https://www.c-span.org/video/?461635-1/pete-buttigieg-delivers-speech-national-security-foreign-policy

woowee shit startin to get interestin

who up next? lol

  

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rawsouthpaw
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Thu Jun-13-19 04:26 AM

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52. "RE: Bernie: Democratic Socialism Transcript"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

My friends, we are in the midst of a defining and pivotal moment for our country and our planet. And, with so many crises converging upon us simultaneously, it is easy for us to become overwhelmed or depressed — or to even throw up our hands in resignation.

But my message to you today is that if there was ever a moment in the history of our country where despair was not an option, this is that time.

If there was ever a moment where we had to effectively analyze the competing political and social forces which define this historical period, this is that time.

If there was ever a moment when we needed to stand up and fight against the forces of oligarchy and authoritarianism, this is that time.

And, if there was ever a moment when we needed a new vision to bring our people together in the fight for justice, decency and human dignity, this is that time.

In the year 2019 the United States and the rest of the world face two very different political paths. On one hand, there is a growing movement towards oligarchy and authoritarianism in which a small number of incredibly wealthy and powerful billionaires own and control a significant part of the economy and exert enormous influence over the political life of our country.

On the other hand, in opposition to oligarchy, there is a movement of working people and young people who, in ever increasing numbers, are fighting for justice.

They are the teachers taking to the streets to make certain that schools are adequately funded and that their students get a quality education.

They are workers at Disney, Amazon, Walmart and the fast food industry standing up and fighting for a living wage of at least $15 an hour and the right to have a union.

They are young people taking on the fossil fuel industry and demanding policies that transform our energy system and protect our planet from the ravages of climate change.

They are women who refuse to give control of their bodies to local, state and federal politicians.

They are people of color and their allies demanding an end to systemic racism and massive racial inequities that exist throughout our society.

They are immigrants and their allies fighting to end the demonization of undocumented people and for comprehensive immigration reform.

When we talk about oligarchy, let us be clear about what we mean. Right now, in the United States of America, three families control more wealth than the bottom half of our country, some 160 million Americans. The top 1% own more wealth than the bottom 92% and 49% of all new income generated today goes to the top 1%. In fact, income and wealth inequality today in the United States is greater than at any time since the 1920s.

And when we talk about oligarchy, it is not just that the very rich are getting much richer. It is that tens of millions of working-class people, in the wealthiest country on earth, are suffering under incredible economic hardship, desperately trying to survive.

Today, nearly 40 million Americans live in poverty and tonight, 500,000 people will be sleeping out on the streets. About half of the country lives paycheck to paycheck as tens of millions of our people are an accident, a divorce, a sickness or a layoff away from economic devastation.

While many public schools throughout the country lack the resources to adequately educate our young people, we are the most heavily incarcerated nation on earth.

After decades of policies that have encouraged and subsidized unbridled corporate greed, we now have an economy that is fundamentally broken and grotesquely unfair.

Even while macroeconomic numbers like GDP, the stock market and the unemployment rate are strong, millions of middle class and working people struggle to keep their heads above water, while the billionaire class consumes the lion’s share of the wealth that we are collectively creating as a nation.

In the midst of a so-called booming economy real wages for the average worker have barely risen at all. And despite an explosion in technology and worker productivity, the average wage of the American worker in real dollars is no higher than it was 46 years ago and millions of people are forced to work two or three jobs just to survive.

And here is something quite incredible that tells you all you need to know about the results of unfettered capitalism. All of us want to live long, happy, and productive lives but. in America today the very rich live on average 15 years longer than the poorest Americans.

In 2014, in McDowell County, West Virginia, one of the poorest counties in the nation, life expectancy for men was 64 years. In Fairfax County, Virginia, a wealthy county, just 350 miles away, life expectancy for men was nearly 82 years, an 18-year differential. The life expectancy gap for women in the two counties was 12 years.

In other words, the issue of unfettered capitalism is not just an academic debate, poverty, economic distress and despair are life-threatening issues for millions of working people in the country.

While the rich get richer they live longer lives. While poor and working families struggle economically and often lack adequate health care, their life expectancy is declining for the first time in modern American history.

Taken together, the American Dream of upward mobility is in peril. In fact, if we don’t turn things around, our younger generation will, for the first time in living memory, have a lower standard of living than their parents. This is not acceptable.

Globally, the situation is even more shocking with most of the world’s wealth concentrated among a very few, while billions of people have almost nothing. Today, the world’s richest 26 billionaires now own as much wealth as the poorest 3.8 billion people on the planet – half of the world’s population.

But the struggle we are facing today is not just economic.

Across the globe, the movement toward oligarchy runs parallel to the growth of authoritarian regimes – like Putin in Russia, Xi in China, Mohamed Bin Salman in Saudi Arabia, Rodrigo Duterte in the Philippines, Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, and Viktor Orbán in Hungry among others.

These leaders meld corporatist economics with xenophobia and authoritarianism. They redirect popular anger about inequality and declining economic conditions into violent rage against minorities — whether they are immigrants, racial minorities, religious minorities or the LGBT community. And to suppress dissent, they are cracking down on democracy and human rights.

In the United States, of course, we have our own version of this movement – which is being led by President Trump and many of his Republican allies who are attempting to divide our country up and attack these same communities. How sad it is that President Trump sees these authoritarian leaders as friends and allies.

This authoritarian playbook is not new. The challenge we confront today as a nation, and as a world, is in many ways not different from the one we faced a little less than a century ago, during and after the Great Depression in the 1930s. Then, as now, deeply-rooted and seemingly intractable economic and social disparities led to the rise of right-wing nationalist forces all over the world.

In Europe, the anger and despair was ultimately harnessed by authoritarian demagogues who fused corporatism, nationalism, racism and xenophobia into a political movement that amassed totalitarian power, destroyed democracy, and ultimately murdering millions of people — including members of my own family.

But we must remember that those were not the only places where dark forces tried to rise up.

Today, we are all rightly repulsed by the sight of neo-Nazis and Klansmen openly marching in Charlottesville, VA, and we are horrified by houses of worship being shot up by right-wing terrorists. But on February 20, 1939, over 20,000 Nazis held a mass rally – not in Berlin, not in Rome, but in Madison Square Garden, in front of a 30-foot-tall banner of George Washington — bordered with swastikas — in New York City.

But back then, those American extremists could not replicate the success of their authoritarian brethren across the ocean because we in the United States, thankfully, made a different choice than Europe did in responding to the era’s social and economic crises.

We rejected the ideology of Mussolini and Hitler – we instead embraced the bold and visionary leadership of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, then the leader of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party.

Together with organized labor, leaders in the African American community and progressives inside and outside the Party, Roosevelt led a transformation of the American government and the American economy.

Like today, the quest for transformative change was opposed by big business, Wall Street, the political establishment, by the Republican Party and by the conservative wing of FDR’s own Democratic Party. And he faced the same scare tactics then that we experience today — red baiting, xenophobia, racism and anti-Semitism.

In a famous 1936 campaign speech Roosevelt stated, “We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace–business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

“They had begun to consider the government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob.

“Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me — and I welcome their hatred.”

Despite that opposition, by rallying the American people, FDR and his progressive coalition created the New Deal, won four terms, and created an economy that worked for all and not just the few.

Today, New Deal initiatives like Social Security, unemployment compensation, the right to form a union, the minimum wage, protection for farmers, regulation of Wall Street and massive infrastructure improvements are considered pillars of American society.

But, while he stood up for the working families of our country, we can never forget that President Roosevelt was reviled by the oligarchs of his time, who berated these extremely popular programs as “socialism.”

Similarly, in the 1960s, when Lyndon Johnson brought about Medicare, Medicaid and other extremely popular programs, he was also viciously attacked by the ruling class of this country.

And here is the point. It is no exaggeration to state, that not only did FDR’s agenda improve the lives of millions of Americans, but the New Deal was enormously popular politically and helped defeat far-right extremism.

For a time.

Today, America and the world are once again moving towards authoritarianism — and the same right-wing forces of oligarchy, corporatism, nationalism, racism and xenophobia are on the march, pushing us to make the apocalyptically wrong choice that Europe made in the last century.

Today, we now see a handful of billionaires with unprecedented wealth and power.

We see huge private monopolies — operating outside of any real democratic oversight and often subsidized by taxpayers – with the power to control almost every aspect of our lives.

They are the profit-taking gatekeepers of our health care, our technology, our finance system, our food supply and almost all of the other basic necessities of life. They are Wall Street, the insurance companies, the drug companies, the fossil fuel industry, the military industrial complex, the prison industrial complex and giant agri-businesses.

They are the entities with unlimited wealth who surround our nation’s capitol with thousands of well-paid lobbyists, who to a significant degree write the laws that we live under.

Today, we have a demagogue in the White House who, for cheap political gain, is attempting to deflect the attention of the American people away from the real crises that we face and, instead, is doing what demagogues always do — and that is divide people up and legislate hatred. This is a president who supports brutal family separations, border walls, Muslim bans, anti-LGBT policies, deportations and voter suppression.

It is my very strong belief that the United States must reject that path of hatred and divisiveness — and instead find the moral conviction to choose a different path, a higher path, a path of compassion, justice and love.

It is the path that I call democratic socialism.

Over eighty years ago Franklin Delano Roosevelt helped create a government that made transformative progress in protecting the needs of working families. Today, in the second decade of the 21st century, we must take up the unfinished business of the New Deal and carry it to completion.

This is the unfinished business of the Democratic Party and the vision we must accomplish.

In order to accomplish that goal, it means committing ourselves to protecting political rights, to protecting civil rights – and to protect economic rights of all people in this country.

As FDR stated in his 1944 State of the Union address: “We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence.”

Today, our Bill of Rights guarantees the American people a number of important constitutionally protected political rights. And while we understand that these rights have not always been respected and we have so much more work to do, we are proud that our constitution guarantees freedom of religion, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly, a free press and other rights because we understand that we can never have true American freedom unless we are free from authoritarian tyranny.

Now, we must take the next step forward and guarantee every man, woman and child in our country basic economic rights – the right to quality health care, the right to as much education as one needs to succeed in our society, the right to a good job that pays a living wage, the right to affordable housing, the right to a secure retirement, and the right to live in a clean environment.

We must recognize that in the 21st century, in the wealthiest country in the history of the world, economic rights are human rights.

That is what I mean by democratic socialism.

As Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said, “Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all of God’s children.”

To realize this vision, we must not view America only as a population of disconnected individuals, we must also view ourselves as part of “an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny,” as Dr. King put it. In other words, we are in this together.

We must see ourselves as part of one nation, one community and one society — regardless of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or country of origin.

This quintessentially American idea is literally emblazoned on our coins: E Pluribus Unum. From the many, one.

And, I should tell you, it is enshrined in the motto of our campaign for the presidency — Not me, Us.

Let me be clear. I do understand that I and other progressives will face massive attacks from those who attempt to use the word “socialism” as a slur. But I should also tell you that I have faced and overcome these attacks for decades — and I am not the only one.

Let us remember that in 1932, Republican President Herbert Hoover claimed that Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal was, “a disguise for the totalitarian state.”

In 1936 former Democratic New York Governor and presidential candidate Al Smith said in a speech about FDR’s New Deal policies, “Just get the platform of the Democratic Party and get the platform of the Socialist Party and lay them down on your dining-room table, side by side.”

When President Harry Truman proposed a national health care program, the American Medical Association hired Ronald Reagan as their pitchman.

The AMA called the legislation that stemmed from his proposal “socialized medicine” claiming that White House staff were, “followers of the Moscow party line.”

In 1960, Ronald Reagan in a letter to Richard Nixon wrote the following about John F. Kennedy: “Under the tousled boyish haircut is still old Karl Marx.”

In the 1990s, then Congressman Newt Gingrich claimed President Bill Clinton’s health care plan was “centralized bureaucratic socialism.”

The conservative Heritage Foundation has claimed that the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) was “a step towards socialism.”

Former Speaker of the House John Boehner claimed the stimulus package, the omnibus spending bill and the budget proposed by President Barack Obama were “all one big down payment on a new American socialist experiment.”

In this regard, President Harry Truman was right when he said that: “Socialism is the epithet they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years…Socialism is what they called Social Security. Socialism is what they called farm price supports. Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance. Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations. Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.”

Now let’s be clear: while President Trump and his fellow oligarchs attack us for our support of democratic socialism, they don’t really oppose all forms of socialism.

They may hate democratic socialism because it benefits working people, but they absolutely love corporate socialism that enriches Trump and other billionaires.

Let us never forget the unbelievable hypocrisy of Wall Street, the high priests of unfettered capitalism.

In 2008, after their greed, recklessness and illegal behavior created the worst financial disaster since the Great Depression — with millions of Americans losing their jobs, their homes and their life savings — Wall Street’s religious adherence to unfettered capitalism suddenly came to an end.

Overnight, Wall Street became big government socialists and begged for the largest federal bailout in American history — some $700 billion from the Treasury and trillions in support from the Federal Reserve.

But it’s not just Wall Street that loves socialism — when it works for them. It is the norm across the entire corporate world. The truth is corporate America receives hundreds of billions of dollars in federal support every single year, while these same people are trying to cut programs that benefit ordinary Americans.

If you are a fossil fuel company, whose carbon emissions are destroying the planet, you get billions in government subsidies including special tax breaks, royalty relief, funding for research and development and numerous tax loopholes.

If you are a pharmaceutical company, you make huge profits on patent rights for medicines that were developed with taxpayer funded research.

If you are a monopoly like Amazon, owned by the wealthiest person in America, you get hundreds of millions of dollars in economic incentives from taxpayers to build warehouses and you end up paying not one penny in federal income taxes.

If you are the Walton family, the wealthiest family in America, you get massive government subsidies because your low wage workers are forced to rely on food stamps, Medicaid and public housing in order to survive — all paid for by taxpayers.

If you are the Trump family, you got $885 million worth of tax breaks and subsidies for your family’s housing empire that is built on racial discrimination.

When Trump screams socialism, all of his hypocrisy will not be lost on the American people. Americans will know that he is attacking all that we take for granted: from Social Security to Medicare to veterans health care to roads and bridges to public schools to national parks to clean water and clean air.

When Trump attacks socialism, I am reminded of what Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said, “This country has socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor.”

And that is the difference between Donald Trump and me. He believes in corporate socialism for the rich and powerful.

I believe in a democratic socialism that works for the working families of this country.

What I believe is that the American people deserve freedom – true freedom. Freedom is an often used word but it’s time we took a hard look at what that word actually means. Ask yourself: what does it actually mean to be free?

Are you truly free if you are unable to go to a doctor when you are sick, or face financial bankruptcy when you leave the hospital?

Are you truly free if you cannot afford the prescription drug you need to stay alive?

Are you truly free when you spend half of your limited income on housing, and are forced to borrow money from a payday lender at 200% interest rates.

Are you truly free if you are 70 years old and forced to work because you lack a pension or enough money to retire?

Are you truly free if you are unable to go to attend college or a trade school because your family lacks the income?

Are you truly free if you are forced to work 60 or 80 hours a week because you can’t find a job that pays a living wage?

Are you truly free if you are a mother or father with a new born baby but you are forced to go back to work immediately after the birth because you lack paid family leave?

Are you truly free if you are a small business owner or family farmer who is driven out by the monopolistic practices of big business?

Are you truly free if you are a veteran, who put your life on the line to defend this country, and now sleep out on the streets?

To me, the answer to those questions, in the wealthiest nation on earth, is no, you are not free.

While the Bill of Rights protects us from the tyranny of an oppressive government, many in the establishment would like the American people to submit to the tyranny of oligarchs, multinational corporations, Wall Street banks, and billionaires.

It is time for the American people to stand up and fight for their right to freedom, human dignity and security.

This is the core of what my politics is all about.

In 1944, FDR proposed an economic bill of rights but died a year later and was never able to fulfil that vision. Our job, 75 years later, is to complete what Roosevelt started.

That is why today, I am proposing a 21st Century Economic Bill of Rights.

A Bill of Rights that establishes once and for all that every American, regardless of his or her income in entitled to:

The right to a decent job that pays a living wage
The right to quality health care
The right to a complete education
The right to affordable housing
The right to a clean environment
The right to a secure retirement
Over the course of this election my campaign has been releasing — and will continue to release — detailed proposals addressing each of these yet to be realized economic rights.

We will also address the attacks that are being launched each day against the civil rights and civil liberties of our people.

And let me be absolutely clear: democratic socialism to me requires achieving political and economic freedom in every community.

And let me also be clear, the only way we achieve these goals is through a political revolution – where millions of people get involved in the political process and reclaim our democracy by having the courage to take on the powerful corporate interests whose greed is destroying the social and economic fabric of our country.

At the end of the day, the one percent may have enormous wealth and power, but they are just the one percent. When the 99 percent stand together, we can transform society.

These are my values, and that is why I call myself a democratic socialist.

At its core is a deep and abiding faith in the American people to peacefully and democratically enact the transformative change that will create shared prosperity, social equality and true freedom for all.

  

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Walleye
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14468 posts
Thu Jun-13-19 06:59 AM

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54. "Sanders understands capitalism is irredeemable"
In response to Reply # 52


          

Warren's swell, but we're not going to fix our problems while still affirming their cause, capitalism's corrupt understanding of human freedom. So a big "fuck yeah" to this speech, and a related "fuck no" to each of these questions. And hot shit on him calling out fascism as well, something that socialism has been uniquely willing to do while liberalism has sat by.

>Are you truly free if you are unable to go to a doctor when
>you are sick, or face financial bankruptcy when you leave the
>hospital?
>
>Are you truly free if you cannot afford the prescription drug
>you need to stay alive?
>
>Are you truly free when you spend half of your limited income
>on housing, and are forced to borrow money from a payday
>lender at 200% interest rates.
>
>Are you truly free if you are 70 years old and forced to work
>because you lack a pension or enough money to retire?
>
>Are you truly free if you are unable to go to attend college
>or a trade school because your family lacks the income?
>
>Are you truly free if you are forced to work 60 or 80 hours a
>week because you can’t find a job that pays a living wage?
>
>Are you truly free if you are a mother or father with a new
>born baby but you are forced to go back to work immediately
>after the birth because you lack paid family leave?
>
>Are you truly free if you are a small business owner or family
>farmer who is driven out by the monopolistic practices of big
>business?
>
>Are you truly free if you are a veteran, who put your life on
>the line to defend this country, and now sleep out on the
>streets?
>
>To me, the answer to those questions, in the wealthiest nation
>on earth, is no, you are not free.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Marauder21
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49515 posts
Thu Jun-13-19 08:40 AM

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55. "This was a great speech"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

I assume his typical stump speech for the immediate future is going to repeat a lot of this. On the one hand I wonder if people who aren't already in his base are going to want to listen through all of the FDR/history related stuff, but it's important to remind people that this wasn't considered radical until relatively recently.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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rawsouthpaw
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Thu Jun-13-19 04:21 AM

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51. "bernie is the only one with the record, credibility and vision"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

our times demand. thankfully he's not bound by the corporate ball and chain to stay on script so that authenticity and intellectual fearlessness on record for decades will again set him apart, and i predict his resonance with the masses will make it so his peers will feel the bern.

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
1399 posts
Thu Jun-13-19 10:05 AM

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58. "he kinda only talk bout dat one thing tho lol"
In response to Reply # 51


          



so da gov take over everything

cool cool

then what?


i dont get his vision for da world stage

he anti- war

aight cool

how he finna move?

he dont seem to give af bout no UN or adversaries or watever

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Thu Jun-13-19 10:13 AM

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59. "for what its worth"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/foreign-policy-distinguishes-bernie-sanders-2020/583279/

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/8/18525486/bernie-sanders-foreign-policy-2020-yemen-war-powers


lol @ all that being one thing

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
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Thu Jun-13-19 10:20 AM

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60. "LOL i mean da socialist shit. he spend most his time complainin bout"
In response to Reply # 59


          


rich people n corporations n how a gov takeover finna cure all our problems


you right bout da yemen shit i forgot bout dat

i said dat tho

he anti war but dats all him n tulsi really be sayin bout foreign polict


i'll check out ya links tho

  

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rawsouthpaw
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80. "you should watch this CNN interview where he ID's corporate socialism"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVkPlrp76Os

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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66. "I agree."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

I just wish people had gotten behind him in 2016. now he looks like the scapegoat for that disaster.

we'll see when the votes come in.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Thu Jun-13-19 09:20 AM

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56. " Caught Gov Inslee on Democracy Now!"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jun-13-19 09:21 AM by bentagain

  

          

https://www.democracynow.org/2019/6/11/we_are_facing_an_existential_crisis

Good interview

I like the idea of having policy specific debates

I’ll assume the DNC’s refusal is because their guy doesn’t have a plan

The primary will most certainly be policy focused
Inslee = climate change
Bern = medicare for all
Warren = tuitionless college
Beto = immigration
Harris = criminal justice reform

FOH at folks saying policy won’t win...first you have to win the nomination

...and anybody cysing polls this cycle is a moron...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
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Thu Jun-13-19 09:56 AM

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57. "you left out some"
In response to Reply # 56


          



williamson = reparations
pete = structural institution reforms
tulsi = foreign policy


gillibrand, klobuchar, hickenlooper, swallwell, moulton, bennett = boring mayonaise ass shit

lol

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu Jun-13-19 02:54 PM

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74. "Hell no. I need to know how they feel about all this shit"
In response to Reply # 56


          

Last thing I want is a candidate only speaking on the one issue they are well versed in.

shut up already, damn

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Thu Jun-13-19 03:45 PM

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78. "You don’t think climate change is a broad enough topic "
In response to Reply # 74
Thu Jun-13-19 03:47 PM by bentagain

  

          

For candidates and their policies to differentiate themselves?

There’s what 20+ candidates

Maybe the first few debates can be just general topics

But once the field is widdled down...I definitely want debates in the form of...why are you the candidate that will fix xyz

Maybe 3 topics...climate change, healthcare and foreign policy

Didn’t they do foreign policy and immigration debates in 16’?

Otherwise it’s 5-10 minutes per candidate to cover everything

Which I imagine devolves into Trumpster sloganeering...it’s gonna be great...gonna be yuge...etc...

I want specifics.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62310 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 01:42 PM

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87. "Once the field dwindles you can do this"
In response to Reply # 78


          

I don’t have an issue with that.

shut up already, damn

  

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Marauder21
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75. "Inslee and Castro are two that I like"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

even though I know they're going absolutely nowhere.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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PG
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41591 posts
Thu Jun-13-19 03:45 PM

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77. "LMAO GTFOOHWTBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>It's been a quick few years.

has been anything but... been like the longest 2-3 years ever

  

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Walleye
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Thu Jun-13-19 05:22 PM

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79. "Debate field finalized - no Mike Gravel"
In response to Reply # 0


          

What a bunch of bullshit. Fucking Bill de Blasio? And why isn't John Delaney a Republican yet? Give me the GravelTeens. #Gravelanche

Sen. Michael Bennet of Colorado
Former Vice President Joe Biden
Sen. Cory Booker of New Jersey
South Bend, IN, Mayor Pete Buttigieg
Former Housing Secretary Julián Castro
New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio
Former Rep. John Delaney of Maryland
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York
Sen. Kamala Harris of California
Former Gov. John Hickenlooper of Colorado
Gov. Jay Inslee of Washington
Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota
Former Rep. Beto O’Rourke of Texas
Rep. Tim Ryan of Ohio
Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont
Rep. Eric Swalwell of California
Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts
Author-activist Marianne Williamson
Entrepreneur-philanthropist Andrew Yang

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Fri Jun-14-19 12:33 PM

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82. "Line Ups"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

The first group of 10 appearing on Wednesday, June 26:

Sen. Cory Booker of New Jersey
Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts
Former Rep. Beto O'Rourke of Texas
Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota
Former Rep. John Delaney of Maryland
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii
Former Housing Secretary Julián Castro
Rep. Tim Ryan of Ohio
New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio
Washington Gov. Jay Inslee


The second group of 10 appearing on Thursday, June 27:

Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont
Sen. Kamala Harris of California
Former Vice President Joe Biden
Mayor Pete Buttigieg of South Bend, Indiana
Sen. Michael Bennet of Colorado
Author Marianne Williamson
Rep. Eric Swalwell of California
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York
Entrepreneur Andrew Yang
Gov. John Hickenlooper of Colorado

  

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Marauder21
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Fri Jun-14-19 12:52 PM

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84. "Sucks for Warren"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

She's stuck in a group that fewer people will watch, plus she's the only one in that group polling high enough right now. So all expectations are on her, and if anyone else has a good night, it's going to come at her expense.

Sanders or Gillibrand could get a burn at Biden's expense during their debate, though. Might crowd Mayor Pete out, though.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Fri Jun-14-19 12:57 PM

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85. "on first read i thought they were fairly balanced"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

but no, youre right, second night is definitely the heavy weights. warren is the only real contender at the moment the first night. im interested because of beto but i doubt that is common.

maybe she knocks it out of the park and stands out more? i do think most people will skip the first night though.

im really not liking this move the more i think of it.

  

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squeeg
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Fri Jun-14-19 01:06 PM

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86. "Yeah, they stuck Warren in Def Beat."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
14328 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 01:52 PM

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88. "It's the first one though. People will be more "excited" to watch"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

Warren's debate, while lighter on competition, will be the first official event of the campaign season.
People will probably tune in just for that. I doubt people are looking at the rosters like NBA lineups

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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rob
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Fri Jun-14-19 05:27 PM

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89. "First debate also has some wildcards"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

Gabbard might say anything. Booker is a variable star. Beto and Klobuchar can be charming and have hardcore fans. Inslee is tv-pretty and can do a lot with the right questions given his experience and platform.

They’re all in that range where they’ve got to be thinking about making a splash. She has a lot to lose if more than one of them shines or just one decides to take the thing off the rails.

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Fri Jun-14-19 12:41 PM

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83. "Bernie is still my go to right now but"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

looking forward to the primary process.

It blows my mind though that people are onboard with Warren when she was basically on the sidelines in 2016 to eventually go behind Hillary, but then people are propping her up for her platform which is basically a hybrid of Sanders and Stein's platforms from 2016.

But definitely glad she is added to the chorus of progressive positions that people were calling Bernie crazy for last go round. I do wish Mike Gravel could have made it too cause his voice is surely needed as a former 2008 candidate. They want no parts of his voice to go against Biden especially.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
7089 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 07:09 PM

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90. "its 2019. yall gotta let this goofy shit go."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

>It blows my mind though that people are onboard with Warren
>when she was basically on the sidelines in 2016 to eventually
>go behind Hillary, but then people are propping her up for her
>platform which is basically a hybrid of Sanders and Stein's
>platforms from 2016.

why does it blow your mind that people are onboard with a candidate who has great policy positions with a legacy of concrete action to back it up?

warren was a progressive rockstar before most people even knew who bernie sanders was. the 'bernie wing' of the party was the 'warren wing' pre-2016 (except she actually helped progressives raise money and win elections nationwide). which is why bernie supporters were so thirsty for her endorsement. she had actual credibility and name cache that he lacked (even after a 30 years in congress).

lol @ her platform being a hybrid of sanders and steins when she actually conceived an agency from scratch from outside of politics that sanders or stein have only talked/dreamed of from inside politics.

shes actually done the stuff that theyve only screamed about in speeches lol.

its wild how the only people who really hate warren right now are republicans...and 'progressives' who claim to champion the policies she has been fighting for forever.

the same folks who put her on a pedestal pre-2016 based on an academic and political career of progressive advocacy are now treating her as some fraud or political appropriator.

and her only sin is not kissing the ring of saint bernard in 2016.

meanwhile those same folks stan for tulsi gabbard who has had a career in congress more conservative than joe manchin and only became 'progressive' in 2017 when she was thinking about a presidential run.
and they only like her because she endorsed bernie.

when you rearrange your principles based on the person and not the policy...its a damn personality cult fam.




------

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3370 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 07:34 PM

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91. "Co-sign all this. Plus"
In response to Reply # 90


          


Literally everyone was on the sidelines in 16, but
Bernie. And that benefitted Bernie a great deal.

He’d be Ron Paul status had even just a handful of
viable candidates ran. If that.

His biggest fans should be thankful Warren sat
out last time.


Man of all the candidates for Bernie fans to attack?

Warren? Word? Unreal.

She is the original article, more detailed, and more
electable.

I hope she is their 2nd choice at least. Damn.

  

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Stevie Lee
Member since Aug 17th 2008
1118 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 08:41 PM

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92. "she is easily my second choice."
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

but I'm currently all in on Bernie, and it's not close.

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11736 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 11:35 PM

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97. "My favs are currently Sanders, Gabbard, Warren in order."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

All three would get my support, but looking forward to them displaying their messages in the debate process.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
7089 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 08:48 PM

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93. "to be clear...when they criticize warren for staying on the sidelines"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

they arent talking about her declining to run as a candidate (like you mentioned...that actually benefited bernie).

they are talking about her declining to endorse bernie during the primary. then eventually supporting hillary (who was the dem nominee).

all she did was sit out the primary and then throw her weight behind the candidate that the majority of dem voters decided they wanted to run for the presidency. something that the large majority of dem politicians do. thats it.

her unforgivable sin was not propping up the sanders campaign with an endorsement that sanders supporters felt he was entitled to. and her then backing hillary (who...unlike sanders...had been a loyal soldier and helped the party for decades) was the the cherry on top.

they think elizabeth warren was partially responsible for sanders loss because that elusive endorsement would supposedly have put him over the top.

its such a juvenile view of things.

they got a million and one excuses for why sanders lost in 2016 and they are still bitter about each and every one them lol.

------

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3370 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 09:09 PM

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94. "Ah my bad"
In response to Reply # 93


          


Dog, you know I wasn’t a Hill fan but folks still gotta
be rational. Bernie was never going to win the nom.

Attacking/holding a grudge against Warren ain’t it.

In fact, she seems like the candidate both sides of
the left could get behind.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Jun-14-19 10:09 PM

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95. "this part of her appeal is so under-discussed:"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

>In fact, she seems like the candidate both sides of
>the left could get behind.

all of this talk about 'electability' (or lack there of) glosses over the fact that she...more than anyone...has the best chance of threading the needle between the 2 major factions of the party.

shes a lefty...she seems/talks mainstream/moderate...and shes great at presenting new/complex ideas for people to chew on.

she obviously has progressive policies...but has that educated air about her that suburban moderates are attracted to (plus the family/employment policies). shes pro-labor/consumer (for the white working class) and whenever she speaks in front of a black audience (particularly with women) she kills it with her authenticity when it comes to racial justice.

shes a grownup bernie (c) me lol.

i think we got sidetracked by the pocahontas stuff but now people are getting re-acquainted with the stuff that made her a rising star in the party in the first place.

------

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11736 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 11:38 PM

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98. "Lol that's fair. Looking forward to it all playing out."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

I am hopeful this time that the process will at least make it apparent what the ticket needs to be. As long as we can keep focus on POLICIES and not just on who beats Trump, I will be happy. I think Sanders still has the best shot, but Warren or a combination of the two was my ideal ticket in 2016 before things even started (with Warren as president for symbolism even). Haha I am not obtuse and would not say that a similar policy position wouldn't emanate from Warren or Sanders. They are definitely more in line than people tried to make him and Hillary out to be.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Jun-19-19 03:10 PM

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109. "^^ with you both on all of this shit."
In response to Reply # 95
Wed Jun-19-19 03:11 PM by Brew

          

E-Dubs became my overwhelming favorite a month or so ago (wrote about it on this very board) and at this point it's not even close.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Jun-24-19 09:45 AM

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124. "I see no other candidate threading that needle like that. "
In response to Reply # 95


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11736 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 11:42 PM

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99. "right, and we are talking about a season where no one came out "
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

for Sanders even though he was having record number rallies and voter sign up in an unprecedented campaign. None of his supporters spoke (or were allowed to) meanwhile everyone from Shonda Rimes to MSNBC got to through their support behind Clinton. It IS unfair to ask her to do a bold thing in that climate, but if you care about these issues and have him in a colleague that had your back for so many years when it was politically unpopular you expect the same. But it is juvenile to expect that, considering Obama did the same thing even though Sanders endorsed him over Clinton in 2008 in a similar unpopular storm. But that again is why I choose Bernie's authenticity over a Warren's: he's always unapologetically stood for what he believes in.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11736 posts
Fri Jun-14-19 11:34 PM

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96. "RE: its 2019. yall gotta let this goofy shit go."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

One goofy thing yall got to let go is that a critique is somehow hate, but I'll do my best to answer.

>why does it blow your mind that people are onboard with a candidate who has great policy positions with a legacy of concrete action to back it up?

It doesn't blow my mind that people are onboard, and have that capicity for Warren. I can understand that perspective. I DON'T understand having that perspective though and making that your marker and somehow Warren passes, but Sanders fails. People are allowed to have that position, but I don't reconcile that logic if it is actually about policy and legacy.

>warren was a progressive rockstar before most people even knew who bernie sanders was. the 'bernie wing' of the party was the 'warren wing' pre-2016 (except she actually helped progressives raise money and win elections nationwide). which is why bernie supporters were so thirsty for her endorsement. she had actual credibility and name cache that he lacked (even after a 30 years in congress).

That is fine, but I am not most people. I was a poli sci major in 2003, and in freshman course in rudimentary classes we broke down neoliberalism and the Clinton legacy, and Bernie struck out even then as a person opposing the war on the working class. He came up again as a progressive socialist mayor that had me interested when in my Black Political thought courses in college. In 2008 when I lost my tuition due to my leave of absence happening in the recession I remember Warren ascending into rockstar status screaming at Wall Street after the bail outs. She gets props for that. But in 2006 is was Sanders who was in hearing saying that the banks were too big and a recession was looming. I agree that he wasn't a "rock star" then but he was correct politically. And the reason Bernie wasn't a rock star is because he wasn't a Democrat, which was spoon fed us as the only criteria for a political stance for over a decade.

>lol @ her platform being a hybrid of sanders and steins when she actually conceived an agency from scratch from outside of politics that sanders or stein have only talked/dreamed of from inside politics.

>shes actually done the stuff that theyve only screamed about in speeches lol.

So yes, the platform she has is actually directly represented in Stein's Green New Deal from last cycle, including quantatative easing for student loan debt (except Stein wishes to cancel ALL student debt). Bernie was on the committees that Warren was on regarding consumer protections, but I don't mind giving her sole credit for being the predominant spokesperson. I wish she had this same enthusiasm to push towards candidates that had a real chance at achieving these policies, instead of us needing another four year for her now to endorse these policies (though she is backing down on medicare for all).

>its wild how the only people who really hate warren right now are republicans...and 'progressives' who claim to champion the policies she has been fighting for forever.

>the same folks who put her on a pedestal pre-2016 based on an academic and political career of progressive advocacy are now treating her as some fraud or political appropriator.

>and her only sin is not kissing the ring of saint bernard in 2016.

Again, I don't "hate" Warren, same way I didn't hate Hillary. A critique is not hate. I just don't want selective endorsements of positions that are clear lines in the sand. She didn't need to endorse Sanders or kiss his ring, but if she believes in raising minimum wage or campaign finance reform, then why not support the person who is engaging millions of people on those exact issues? That is all. That to me is my only critique of her for the most part. I would still vote for her, but to me, imho, Bernie is more credible.

>meanwhile those same folks stan for tulsi gabbard who has had a career in congress more conservative than joe manchin and only became 'progressive' in 2017 when she was thinking about a presidential run.
and they only like her because she endorsed bernie.

Gabbard is emerging as a candidate mostly because the diluted definition of "progressive" as a way to pass Buttigieg and Harris and Beto as "progressives" and from an identity politics standpoint of her being a woman of color. However, she does have definitive policy positions that I can get behind, and I do respect that she didn't allow her support of Sanders in 2016 to muddy the waters of the DNC. She stepped down so that she could put her energy behind policies she believed in, and had Debbie Wasserman Shultz done the same our process may not have been as compromised last go round.

>when you rearrange your principles based on the person and not the policy...its a damn personality cult fam.

Again, I have personally campaigned door to door on issues like campaign finance reform, anti-hydrofracking, raising minimum wage, medicare for all, etc. To have a candidate who has embraced ALL of those positions with no wavering? I'm sorry, yeah from a policy standpoint I am still with the guy who has been saying it for as long as I've been alive. He's gone from mayor to this position with the same narrative so until someone else emerges with a better platform and resume, I'm still Sanders. But again, looking forward to this process and actually seeing things play out in the debates.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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rawsouthpaw
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105. "ALL should watch sanders segment on '16 primary in michael moore's film"
In response to Reply # 83
Wed Jun-19-19 02:38 PM by rawsouthpaw

  

          

https://youtu.be/FiiygzGY6SI?t=2652

this is from fahrenheit 11/9

the whole film is very much worth a watch, especially with how michael moore captures and contextualizes the trump crime family's election.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Wed Jun-19-19 06:55 AM

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100. "Watched part of the Trump campaign kickoff rally and got deja vu"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jun-19-19 06:58 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

  

          

I don't want to hear about polls showing Trump is behind. This dude has a hold on people that polls can't capture.

Whoever the Democrat nominees is needs to generate enough excitement, hope, or fear to get people out on election day. A boring typical candidate can't cut through the Trump noise.

I used to minimize campaign rallies. But now I think they are necessary and have to be major events. The images and spectacle of it all is important. They need to illustrate to folks on the sidelines that something exciting is happening and that they should be a part of it.

This is why I'm cold on Biden. His strategy seems to be to coast quietly into the presidency. Nah. That won't work.

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Jun-19-19 08:50 AM

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101. "I know a lot of people who swear he won’t get re-elected "
In response to Reply # 100


          

I don’t see how anyone can be so confident after what happened the last time.

Fuck the polls. They aren’t reliable. I don’t want to hear about how accurate Nate Silver was on Election Day/Week. That was too late.

Biden, I don’t trust the media. They are trying to put him up as our next up without getting him. I can’t lie tho, until the debates I really can’t say I’m invested in one particular candidate right now.

Just know this shit isn’t going to be easy and brace yourselves if he wins again. America is fucked up. It can happen again. I’m almost certain it will just so I will be legit shocked and surprised if we knock him out of the WH.

shut up already, damn

  

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Marauder21
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Wed Jun-19-19 09:04 AM

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102. "I think people need to find a balance"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

Between the 2016-esque "LOL, he can't win" and the Chicken Little "he's gonna cruise to re-election" people say after every perceived Dem misstep.

The fundamentals of the 2020 election do not look good for him, and I don't think there's any big-name Dem candidate who can't beat him. That said, there's also no big-name Dem candidate who is a guarantee to beat him. Every one of them COULD lose depending on what happens the next 17 months. By spring the whole campaign could be a referendum on the invasion of Iran for all we know.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Jun-19-19 03:14 PM

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110. "I hear you but the "fundamentals" of 2016 didn't look good for him, eith..."
In response to Reply # 102


          

>The fundamentals of the 2020 election do not look good for
>him, and I don't think there's any big-name Dem candidate who
>can't beat him. That said, there's also no big-name Dem
>candidate who is a guarantee to beat him. Every one of them
>COULD lose depending on what happens the next 17 months. By
>spring the whole campaign could be a referendum on the
>invasion of Iran for all we know.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
3174 posts
Wed Jun-19-19 09:27 AM

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103. "Nah those polls are close to the true numbers"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

>I don't want to hear about polls showing Trump is behind.
>This dude has a hold on people that polls can't capture.
>

Internal polls would capture those people.

>Whoever the Democrat nominees is needs to generate enough
>excitement, hope, or fear to get people out on election day. A
>boring typical candidate can't cut through the Trump noise.
>

Trump is not invincible


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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62310 posts
Wed Jun-19-19 02:44 PM

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108. "While he isn’t invincible"
In response to Reply # 103


          

We have to factor in white folk and the Electoral College

All that internet shit flies out the window when it’s time to vote.

shut up already, damn

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Wed Jun-19-19 03:45 PM

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113. "True"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

>We have to factor in white folk and the Electoral College
>

Can't argue with that, the electoral helped W get in and
white folk will do the wrong thing.


2018 Dems got in so Trump is going down.

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j.
Member since Feb 24th 2009
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Wed Jun-19-19 03:27 PM

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111. "keep ignoring the silent 45 voter and cry me a river on election night"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

Told you last time

POLLS
DO
NOT
CAPTURE
ALL
THE
45
VOTERS

The diehard fanatics DGAF and are publicly with 45 to the bitter end

However, there is a silent segment of the 45 base that will answer
"I don't know"
"undecided"
"independent"
etc etc

THEY
ARE
VOTING
FOR
45
ALL
ALONG

They just don't want the "racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic" tag
(cuz they're pussies, they believe all that shit but don't want to be "outed")

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Wed Jun-19-19 03:34 PM

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112. "definitely bothers me when they dont explain the other 10%"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

that didnt pick biden or trump in the polls. what was the other option they were given?

also, these polls are usually 1000 people.

then theyre national. what did the national vote matter???

at least give us poll numbers in swing states.

  

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ABC_Style
Member since Oct 20th 2004
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Wed Jun-19-19 02:14 PM

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104. "Man, Joe Biden sucks (link and swipe) "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

👎

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-wont-demonize-the-rich_n_5d09ac63e4b0f7b74428e4c6

Joe Biden Promises Rich Donors He Won’t ‘Demonize’ The Wealthy If Elected President

Former Vice President Joe Biden told a roomful of well-heeled donors on Tuesday night that he would not “demonize” the rich if he’s elected president in the 2020 election. “I need you very badly,” he told the group.

Addressing the 100 or so guests at a fundraiser at the swanky Carlyle Hotel in New York City, Biden said he’d gotten into hot soup with “some of the people on my team, on the Democratic side” for his earlier comments about rich people being “just as patriotic as poor people.”

That’s “not a joke,” he said. “I mean, we may not want to demonize anybody who has made money.”

Appearing to suggest that his tax plan would not include excessive taxes on the rich, Biden said “no one’s standard of living change” if he’s elected.

“The truth of the matter is, you all, you all know, you all know in your gut what has to be done. We can disagree in the margins but the truth of the matter is it’s all within our wheelhouse and nobody has to be punished. No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change,” he said.

Biden added that though income inequality is a considerable problem that plagues the United States, the rich are not the enemy that’s to blame for the wealth gap. He said:

When we have income inequality as large as we have in the United States today, it brews and ferments political discord and basic revolution. Not a joke. Not a joke ... It allows demagogues to step in and say the reason where we are is because of the ‘other’ ... You’re not the other. I need you very badly. I hope if I win this nomination, I won’t let you down. I promise you. I have a bad reputation, I always say what I mean. The problem is I sometimes say all that I mean.

Bloomberg’s Jennifer Epstein described the scene at the Tuesday fundraiser: Affluent donors, including former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and former Deputy Treasury Secretary Roger Altman, tucked into hors d’oeuvres like lobster, chicken satay and crudites. The group was “well-dressed,” Epstein said, most of them in suits.

Though Biden has pushed a generally populist economic agenda focused on decreasing income inequality and promoting workers’ rights, the former vice president has taken a moderate stance when it comes to taxation. Unlike some of his 2020 Democratic rivals like Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Biden has not singled out the mega-rich as tax targets. He’s instead proposed expanding tax credits for the poor and middle class, and making the tax code less friendly to rich investors.

“I love Bernie, but I’m not Bernie Sanders. I don’t think 500 billionaires are the reason why we’re in trouble,” Biden said at an event in March.

<-------------------
Represent the city that I'm from- Dum diddy dum

  

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Marauder21
Charter member
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Wed Jun-19-19 02:41 PM

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106. "So this includes poor people's standards too, I assume?"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

>Appearing to suggest that his tax plan would not include
>excessive taxes on the rich, Biden said “no one’s standard
>of living change” if he’s elected.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14338 posts
Wed Jun-19-19 02:42 PM

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107. "No one’s standard of living will change (c) Biden 2020"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

...way to rally the base...

at least he's not trying to convince us of something he's not.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ABC_Style
Member since Oct 20th 2004
1368 posts
Wed Jun-19-19 03:55 PM

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114. "I'm hoping he gets crushed in the primaries, Howard Dean style"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

literally nobody I know is in for him! Nobody! Why the Dems are trying to force this fossil down everyone's throat I'll never know.

<-------------------
Represent the city that I'm from- Dum diddy dum

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
3174 posts
Wed Jun-19-19 08:18 PM

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115. "More Biden sucking. test his Sister Soulja moment"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/449391-biden-under-fire-from-talking-of-civility-with-segregationist-senators


Biden under fire for talking of 'civility' with segregationist senators


Former Vice President Joe Biden came under fire on Wednesday after invoking his working relationships with two segregationist senators in the 1970s as an example of bygone “civility” in the Senate.

Five of Biden’s rivals in the Democratic presidential field, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio (D), Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.), Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.), Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and former Rep. John Delaney (D-Md.), laid into him for mentioning Sens. James Eastland (D-Miss.) and Herman Talmadge (D-Ga.) during a speech at a fundraiser on Tuesday night.

In his remarks, Biden sought to rebuff criticism of his centrist-minded politics from some in his party’s liberal wing.

He pointed back to his early days as a U.S. senator from Delaware when he worked with Eastland and Talmadge, two Southern Democrats who opposed desegregation.

“I was in a caucus with James O. Eastland,” Biden said, briefly emulating a Southern accent. “He never called me ‘boy.’ He always called me ‘son.’ ”

Of Talmadge, Biden said that he was “one of the meanest guys I ever knew.”

“Well guess what? At least there was some civility. We got things done,” Biden said. “We didn’t agree on much of anything. We got things done. We got it finished. But today, you look at the other side and you’re the enemy. Not the opposition, the enemy. We don't talk to each other anymore.”

Biden’s remarks won rebukes from Booker, de Blasio, Delaney, Harris and Sanders, who all said the former vice president’s comments were out of tune with the party.

Booker said Biden was “wrong” to invoke his working relationships Eastland and Talmadge as an example of political compromise.

“You don’t joke about calling black men ‘boys,’ ” said Booker, who is black. “Men like James O. Eastland used words like that, and the racist policies that accompanied them, to perpetuate white supremacy and strip black Americans of our very humanity."

“I have to tell Vice President Biden, as someone I respect, that he is wrong for using his relationships with Eastland and Talmadge as examples of how to bring our country together,” he added. “And frankly, I’m disappointed that he hasn’t issued an immediate apology for the pain his words are dredging up for many Americans. He should.”

Sanders echoed Booker’s call for an apology, saying that Biden’s remarks were particularly harmful “at a time when the Trump administration is trying to divide us up with its racist appeals.”

I agree with Cory Booker. This is especially true at a time when the Trump administration is trying to divide us up with its racist appeals. https://t.co/VyVcG6srQM

— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) June 19, 2019
De Blasio posted a picture of his family on Twitter and pointing out that Eastland believed that his “multiracial family should be illegal.”

“It’s 2019 & @JoeBiden is longing for the good old days of ‘civility’ typified by James Eastland. Eastland thought my multiracial family should be illegal & that whites were entitled to ‘the pursuit of dead n*ggers,’ ” de Blasio wrote.

“It’s past time for apologies or evolution from @JoeBiden,” de Blasio continued. “He repeatedly demonstrates that he is out of step with the values of the modern Democratic Party.”

Speaking to reporters at the Capitol on Wednesday, Harris, who is black, said she was “deeply” concerned by Biden’s comments.

“It concerns me deeply,” she said, according to ABC News’s Mariam Khan. “If those men had their way, I wouldn’t be in the United States Senate and on this elevator right now.”

.@SenKamalaHarris is asked if she’s concerned about Biden’s segregationist remarks: “Yes it concerns me deeply. If those men had their way, I wouldn’t be in the United States Senate and on this elevator right now.”

— Mariam Khan (@MKhan47) June 19, 2019
Another presidential contender, Delaney, called Biden’s remarks “insensitive,” suggesting that the former vice president chose a poor example to showcase his compromise-minded approach to politics.

“Evoking an avowed segregationist is not the best way to make the point that we need to work together and is insensitive; we need to learn from history but we also need to be aggressive in dismantling structural racism that exists today,” Delaney said.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) did not directly criticize Biden, but said it would be wrong to “celebrate segregationists.”

“I’m not here to criticize other Democrats, but it’s never OK to celebrate segregationists,” Warren told The Washington Post’s Sean Sullivan. “Never.”

I asked @ewarren about @JoeBiden’s comments on segregationist senators. She replied: “I’m not here to criticize other Democrats, but it’s never okay to celebrate segregationists. Never.”

— Sean Sullivan (@WaPoSean) June 19, 2019
Biden campaign spokeswoman and senior adviser Symone Sanders defended the former vice president in a lengthy statement posted to Twitter, writing that "suggesting he is actively praising a segregationist is just a bad take and a willfully disingenuous act."

She wrote that Biden "basically said sometimes in Congress, one has to work with terrible or down right racist folks to get things done. And then went on to say when you can't work with them, work around them."

"Joe Biden has been an ally in the fight for civil rights for years," Sanders wrote, noting he was "the man who literally ran for office against an incumbent at 29 because of the civil rights movement, the man who was at the forefront of marriage equality before it was politically popular, the man who served as President Obama's VP, the man who literally launched his 2020 campaign calling out Nazis in Charlottesville along with Trump's equivalency."

.@JoeBiden did not praise a segregationist. That is a disingenuous take. He basically said sometimes in Congress, one has to work with terrible or down right racist folks to get things done. And then went on to say when you can't work with them, work around them.

— Symone D. Sanders (@SymoneDSanders) June 19, 2019
Biden has long cast himself as an ally of civil rights, and has enjoyed close relationships with many African American political leaders over the decades. Polls consistently show him leading the rest of the Democratic field with black voters, many of whom view him positively from his time serving as vice president under former President Obama.

Biden, however, has at times found himself at odds with civil rights advocates in the past. As a freshman senator in the 1970s, for instance, he spoke out against the idea of “busing” to desegregate schools.

Biden has spoken in the past about his work decades ago with prominent segregationists as a means to showcase his ability to work with lawmakers with whom he disagrees. He has argued that without compromise, a Democratic president won’t be able to advance an agenda.

But some in his party’s left flank have criticized that approach, asserting that compromise is a futile effort in the face of modern political divisions and that any Democratic president would have to be ready to take swift action to implement their policies. Biden, however, has rejected that argument.

“I know the new New Left tells me that I’m — this is old-fashioned,” Biden said Tuesday. “Well guess what? If we can’t reach a consensus in our system, what happens? It encourages and demands the abuse of power by a president. That’s what it does."

“You have to be able to reach consensus under our system,” he continued. “Our constitutional system of separation of powers.”

Antjuan Seawright, a South Carolina-based Democratic strategist, noted that Biden didn’t offer praise for either Eastland or Talmadge, and that the former vice president was trying to showcase his ability to work with those he disagrees with.

“In no way shape or form am I defending the work of these two men or their positions or their past,” Seawright said. “But we need to work together to get things done. And sometimes life requires us working with people that we might not agree with on everything.”

Seawright pointed to how Democratic lawmakers worked with Trump to pass sweeping criminal justice reform legislation last year, despite previously accusing the president of racist behavior.

“We see now that Democrats have worked with a person that some people view as a racist and a bigot in the White House, Donald Trump, to pass the First Step Act,” he said. “Not to compare the two or minimize the feelings people have about what the vice president said, but working with Donald Trump could be seen in the same light."


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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62310 posts
Thu Jun-20-19 07:01 AM

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118. "This one is pretty weak"
In response to Reply # 115


          

In Congress you have to “work” with people you wouldn’t duck with on a regular basis.

Kinda like any job.

shut up already, damn

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
3174 posts
Thu Jun-20-19 10:24 AM

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120. "Nah it's worse he shiting on the base"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

to get racist Trump voters.

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Marauder21
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Thu Jun-20-19 10:30 AM

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121. "The issue is these weren't people he really disagreed with"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

He had the same stance on bussing as Eastland and the same zeal for expanding the prison state as Strom Thurmond.

If he wanted to demonstrate bipartisanship, he could have (and was reportedly asked by his aides to do so) reference Bob Dole or Jack Kemp or John McCain or someone who is remembered for being something other than a hardcore segregationist. Instead he chose people who, if you've heard of them, it's because of their segregation support. And if you haven't, it's the first thing you'll learn in a Google search. Then he got mad at Corey Booker and demanded an apology from him for some reason.

The fact that he's "the electable one" and he can't even listen to his own advisers to not big up the Jim Crow guys is also shitty, but less so.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62310 posts
Mon Jun-24-19 10:42 AM

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130. "I changed my mind after realizing he was talking about Dems. "
In response to Reply # 121


          

shut up already, damn

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71013 posts
Wed Jun-19-19 10:40 PM

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116. "Biden will fade but the DNC power structure will throw weight behind him"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I like Warren but I am concerned how she will play in a general election. I'd like to see Sanders. If we're running a moderate, let it be Harris. Biden is largely making the same mistake over again as 2016, even though I get the argument that he'd play better in PA/MI/WI.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu Jun-20-19 07:03 AM

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119. "I’m not sure he will fade. Older voters are all in with iden"
In response to Reply # 116


          

It’s definitely closer than the polls indicate but old ass voters want that old thing back

shut up already, damn

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
7089 posts
Mon Jun-24-19 12:00 PM

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139. "i think people are really misinformed about what the dem base is"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

because when you watch tv or scroll through social media...all you see are democrats like aoc, stacey abrams, etc. dominating most of the conversation/exposure.

we really are becoming victims of our own bubble/echo chamber in this regard.

but moderate/conservative dems still have a 2:1 margin advantage over very liberal/progressive voters in the base. and the majority are older than 50.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5u6B-IXoAE3H2v.jpg

thats why i found it kinda funny when bernie campaign surrogates were crying foul over dem primary polling samples that had the majority of respondents over 50 and bernie losing by a significant margin to biden. who exactly do they think actually votes (especially in a primary)?

i keep bringing this stat up to bring liberals/progressives back to reality. but out of the 40 seats dems flipped in the house in 2018 in a wave year...only *1* ran on a 'progressive' platform (medicare for all, etc). and that 1 really only got swept in by a blue wave in typically repub stronghold orange county (they def arent progressive out there). the 2 senate seats that flipped blue were conservative/moderate. and the near-sweep of the rust belt governorships were moderates.

the voters who *those* politicians appealed to are the ones who largely make up the dem base.

------

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
9471 posts
Thu Jun-20-19 10:35 AM

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122. "dems are f*cked"
In response to Reply # 0


          

if joe biden is the best the dems have to offer, good luck to all of us

  

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Creole
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Mon Jun-24-19 09:20 AM

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123. "Bernie: I'm with him now SOLELY because of this..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

POLITICS 06/23/2019 10:47 pm ET Updated 10 hours ago

Bernie Sanders Unveils Sweeping Bill To Cancel All Student Debt

The new proposal from the 2020 presidential candidate would get rid of all the existing student loan debt in the country.

By Amanda Terkel

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), who is running for the Democratic presidential nomination, is unveiling one of his signature policy proposals Monday, a plan to make public college free ― with a new element of eliminating all the student debt in the country.

The legislation is the most sweeping college affordability plan to date. It eliminates tuition and fees at public four-year colleges and universities, as well as community colleges.

It also would wipe out all the existing student debt ― $1.6 trillion, covering 45 million Americans.

Sanders’ plan, which was shared in advance with HuffPost, goes further than what Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) ― who, along with Sanders, occupies the progressive lane in the 2020 race — has proposed. While the two will be on different nights for this week’s first Democratic presidential debates, it introduces a key difference in approach on a prominent policy issue.

The Sanders bill eliminates all student debt, whereas Warren’s plan ― while still substantial ― covers $1.25 trillion for 42 million people. The difference is that Warren’s plan has caps.

Warren’s proposal forgives $50,000 in student loan debt for every person with a household income of $100,000. People between $100,000 and $250,000 in household income would have a portion of their debt forgiven, and people above that amount would get no cancellation.

Once she released her plan in April, Warren made forgiving college debt a major issue in the presidential campaign. It’s been one of her most high-profile policy proposals.

In the House, Sanders is joined by Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.), whose Student Debt Cancellation Act would cancel all existing federal and private student loans, and Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), whose College for All Act would cover the free college aspect.

Read the rest... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-college-debt_n_5d0ed0cbe4b0aa375f4da108

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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126. "I’m with it. "
In response to Reply # 123


          

I have a hard time believing it would pass but shit man..

if it did it would stimulate the economy like crazy.

I’m going to end up spending more money on interest than principal.

Even if they just wiped out interest it would be awesome. I’m sick right now just thinking about my income based payments due to our pay raises this year. I doubt they take daycare into account when crunching these numbers. Also makes me sad as duck thinking about all the money I could be investing that will go to student loans. I’m really thinking about getting another job or legit hustle to pay down this loan.

My coworker was able to pay off his wife’s loan with money from his inheritance. I don’t think he really understands how awesome that is AND that he didn’t have any debt after college. What’s wild tho is he was still getting bills for 0.00 after he sent the check for the remaining balance. Those fools asked him if he wanted to pay the full principal or apply the full amount month to month? Huh?

shut up already, damn

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-24-19 11:19 AM

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133. "fuck it. if repubs can run on a wall funded by a foreign country"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

and complete fantasy land material they make up out of thin air like clean coal...then dems can run on whatever they want regardless of how feasible or realistic it is. if it attacts voter then its fine by me.

------

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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146. "Federal Loans"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

I don't understand how someone would even qualify for more than $50K in federal loans to begin with

...but my understanding of the student debt crisis, is that a majority of the debt is from private loans...

The program implemented under BHO was only for federal loans

...and I'm getting the same impression from these plans...

How would the plan remedy private student loan debt?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Jun-24-19 06:47 PM

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147. "Warren already did it, and she did it better."
In response to Reply # 123


          


This is the same old Sanders misdirection technique. Take a standard piece of progressive policy. Make it slightly less effective and significantly more improbable, then wait for people to reward him for "boldness" (a modern political code word for improbability) and pretend he invented the idea.

The politics of egotistical self destruction.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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152. "definitely"
In response to Reply # 147


          


I was scratching my head thinking "this sounds like a worse version of a plan Warren has had for a long time...why the hype?"

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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187. "Not facts. Actually Jill Stein made this this hallmark of"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

her attempt to get millennial voters in 2016. And took all the lumps for quantitative easing, green new deal, etc. She even tried to recruit Sanders to the Green ticket because she said the Dems would sabotage him. He didn't because yall wanted him to be a real Democrat. Yall argued the man down about $15 an hour and universal health care so he didnt get to go full energy.

Now years later Warren is the authority on this with a watered down compromise? When will we learn that these things aren't to be compromised. Go all the way. There's no way Warren gets more credit for this than Bernie and I would vote for either of them to be clear. But Sanders has way more credibility on this. Warren and Sanders were my ideal ticket for 2016, with her leading the ticket for the identity politics that everyone wanted but policy was in line.

It just funny to see people slam Sanders for having a progressive stance in a political climate that HIS 2016 campaign opened the door for. He's still OG at this point.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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stravinskian
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189. "Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Jill fuckin Stein."
In response to Reply # 187


          


Jesus.

  

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Mr. ManC
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433. "Brother Starks, I get that you want to reduce politics to merely a"
In response to Reply # 189


  

          

popularity contest (though ironically you won't acknowledge that Bernie is the most popular politician with the highest approval rating nationwide) YES, Jill Stein. From POLICY perspective SHE had it first and did the dirty work while Democrats called her a Russian spy because she earned votes away from Hillary.

To fast forward to now and not give her credit when Warren is doing a diluted piggybackying off of the policy isn't fair, but then again, the entire Democratic Party is riding the wave of Sanders and yall don't give props to that either so I shouldn't be surprised. Credit for Warren though. She may hot line/hot song that whole policy position.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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125. "Does Corey Booker have any constituency? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ever met a person super enthusiastic about him running for President?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
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127. "Rosie"
In response to Reply # 125


          

shut up already, damn

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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128. "if it's Biden, we are all FUCKED..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...and it's getting scary how many people don't realize this.



  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
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Mon Jun-24-19 10:33 AM

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129. "I really feel this way"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

Its fucking Hillary all over.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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131. "biden is 10x worse than hillary."
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

i mean...he wrote the crime bill that hillary got crucified for merely *supporting* from the sidelines as the 1st lady. and he sees nothing wrong about it worth apologizing for.

and at least hillary was trying to actually court democratic voters with policy appeals to the base. biden is skipping press appearances and dem state party functions (except for sc). dude is running like a republican whose base doesnt really demand any visibility/accountability.

no televised town halls, no real outreach, etc.

and damn near everything hes done since being in the picture as (prospective) candidate has been demoralizing or disrespectful to a core segment of the dem base.

no mea culpas, no attempts to smooth things over with the people you need to vote for you, etc.

he seems to be completely hostile to the progressive part of the base as if theyre more of a threat to his vision of america than these republican lunatics.

i honestly have no idea what his platform is other than trying to convince everyone that republicans are really good people and 'the new left' needs to stop being so mean to them.

------

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
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Mon Jun-24-19 11:24 AM

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134. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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135. "All true. He's taking the &quot;playing not to lose&quot; approach that ..."
In response to Reply # 131
Mon Jun-24-19 11:31 AM by Brew

          

... failed with, but ratcheting up that awful approach by like 200 levels. Just like Hillary, it seems like he's seeing the polls and figuring, welp, no work left to do, and "playing it safe". Fatal mistake.

Add to that everything you said about his placating to Repugs while alienating progressives and .... dude sucks, and we're fucked if he wins the nom.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Mon Jun-24-19 11:32 AM

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136. "I think his strategy is simple. Win Pennsylvania and Wisconsin"
In response to Reply # 131
Mon Jun-24-19 11:34 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

  

          

And one of Michigan, Ohio, or Florida.

Given that he is the nominee, what states would be at threat of being list by not being progressive enough?
Is California going to reject him for that? New Jersey? Maryland? Nah. They'll go his way no matter what against Trump.

So he should be looking at what message the rust belt receptive to. If they want a reconciliation story, he's gonna give it to them. If they are hesitant about the aggressive agenda of the other candidates, he can back off.

I don't think he's really running a primary campaign. He doesn't have to. His electorate is already in place and isn't going to shift much. Primary wise, he's just hoping no one particular candidate gains steam. If 4-5 people stay in to the end, it's his nomination easy

So he's running a general election campaign now

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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137. "I hate to agree but you are 100% correct"
In response to Reply # 136


          

It comes down to a few rust belt states and Biden plays well to those old white voters who would never vote for a socialist or a woman

Will Black folk stay home?

I doubt it. We hate Trump more than Biden.

shut up already, damn

  

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Creole
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141. "The turnout numbers better be f'in historic!"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

>Will Black folk stay home?

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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150. "I have no idea what to expect"
In response to Reply # 141


          

You would think folks would turn out to vote this clown out but at the same time...

A lot of Black folk aren’t really as mad at Trump as we would expect.

shut up already, damn

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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144. "this. I've been hesitant to say it/admit it"
In response to Reply # 131


          


but I think he is worse too.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Jun-24-19 11:14 AM

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132. "horrible frontrunner."
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

seriously what does it say about a candidate when their campaign strategy is to hide from their own voters and still expect them to vote for him?

thats a despicable level of entitlement.

dude is on some 'everybody else needs to get with the program' shit.

i dont see how anybody could be inspired by what theyve seen/heard so far.

i hope obama stays out of this shit and doesnt try to throw him a lifeline when things start to look shaky.

------

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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138. "This is like getting mad at the #1 pick for not throwing at the combine"
In response to Reply # 132


          

Dude is about to have a pro day this week at the debates.

If I’m in his camp I wouldn’t let him say shit until the debate.

shut up already, damn

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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140. "i know the point you were trying to make but its not apples:apples."
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

for one...debates arent a substitute for a campaign platform. and theres not much evidence that they mean that much anyway. bernie trounced hillary on most occasions. hillary trounced trump on every occasion.

and there are 40 million other differences (primary voters) who all deserve to know what the potential leader of *their* party actually stands for. not just a select group of teams that basically already have their mind made up about where you stand on their board.

------

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Jun-24-19 12:42 PM

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142. "But if he truly is in the lead??? "
In response to Reply # 140


          

Does he need more progressives or more rust belt flip floppers

It comes down to the white vote imo.

Unfortunately

shut up already, damn

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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143. "the point is that the candidate can and should go after both"
In response to Reply # 142


          

>Does he need more progressives or more rust belt flip
>floppers
>


Running a half-assed campaign that consistently shits on your base isn't the way to go.


Biden so far is running a lazier, more entitled campaign than Hillary did.

And I get it, America is sexist and hates Hillary.

But she also had a lot of very passionate followers. Does Biden? Of course not.


Betting 2020 on the idea that a bunch of old white folks who not only have land lines, but answer it represent enough of the country isn't wise to me.

Plus, he doesn't seem to be banking *just* on midwest flip floppers. He and his people seem to think they will get some GOP votes- which, again, was the same logic that brought Hillary down.


He really is an awful candidate- I think just about the worst person the Dems could run at this point in my opinion.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jun-25-19 09:59 AM

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149. "Personally I think he is shitting on the progressive base"
In response to Reply # 143


          

which isn’t his base.

Whether we want to admit it or not I think the Dem base is mostly center left. Just because the progressives are the loudest and the youngest doesn’t make them the overall base.

As far as Hillary is concerned. She was hated by a lot of people. It’s that simple. Those are the facts.

shut up already, damn

  

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Marauder21
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Tue Jun-25-19 10:58 AM

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151. "This is a big part of it"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          


>Plus, he doesn't seem to be banking *just* on midwest flip
>floppers. He and his people seem to think they will get some
>GOP votes- which, again, was the same logic that brought
>Hillary down.

That and also your comment on how Hillary did have people who were genuinely passionate for *her* that Biden does not at all seem to have.

It's not that he can't win in 2020, but we can do better.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jun-25-19 11:29 AM

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156. "We know why people were passionate for Hillary"
In response to Reply # 151


          

She was the first woman with a legit chance to win.

Not sure how much passion is needed this time around. We just need the W.

Now granted, if he finds a way to lose the nomination I think folks will have a solid argument for why it happened.

But there is no where for the front runner to go but down once they start campaigning.

I’m hoping Warren gets a legit shot to win it. I doubt it tho.

shut up already, damn

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Mon Jun-24-19 01:18 PM

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145. "In the lead of what? Polls? Pre-election/debate polls?"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

How the fuck are we talking about polling numbers after 2016?

Seriously

Question anything that has Biden in the lead IMO

Dude hasn't even offered a platform...on anything

Matter of fact...the idea of polling data at this point in the process if fucking insulting.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jun-25-19 09:56 AM

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148. "Yes. Those polls. Whether you like it or not it’s politics"
In response to Reply # 145


          

and polls will always have a specific place in how folks “run” a race.

I’m not a fan of Biden’s but I don’t think his strategy thus far is bad for the race he is running right now. He is the most “established” candidate in terms of name recognition. The more he says the more he loses ground so he hasn’t said much.

We are in a time when standing close to a woman is news so his handlers have been smart to keep him out of the limelight until the debates.

shut up already, damn

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130014 posts
Tue Jun-25-19 06:09 PM

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182. "no lies told."
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Jun-25-19 11:05 AM

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153. "One of my least favorite complaints is accusing a candidate of stealing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

another candidates policy ideas.

Please, please, please all candidates, if you here a good policy idea from another candidate, adopt it shamelessly.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Jun-25-19 11:05 AM

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154. "One of my least favorite complaints is accusing a candidate of stealing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

another candidates policy ideas.

Please, please, please all candidates, if you here a good policy idea from another candidate, adopt it shamelessly.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62310 posts
Tue Jun-25-19 11:23 AM

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155. "You cool with someone adopting your idea at work or for a film? "
In response to Reply # 154


          

shut up already, damn

  

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Walleye
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Tue Jun-25-19 11:34 AM

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157. "That's an astonishingly bad metaphor"
In response to Reply # 155
Tue Jun-25-19 11:40 AM by Walleye

          

Good political ideas aren't proprietary because we want politics to improve people's material conditions. If somebody has a good idea for that, and a bunch of other folks say "hell yeah! me too!" then we have something even more valuable: consensus on a good idea. And anybody who refuses to share that good idea is left out in the cold because they've demonstrated their disinterest in improving people's lives in X, Y, or Z way.

Edited to add: I also don't believe that decommodifying things that we decide, together, are important components of a well-formed human life is the sort of notion that somebody (at least not somebody in the 21st century) can claim as their own.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jun-25-19 11:45 AM

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161. "I have no problem if someone says they stole the idea"
In response to Reply # 157


          

you didn’t adopt that shit.

shut up already, damn

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14338 posts
Tue Jun-25-19 11:37 AM

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159. "No ideas original (c)"
In response to Reply # 155
Tue Jun-25-19 11:39 AM by bentagain

  

          

The difference recently...politicians have found the balls to run these ideas on a national platform

datall.

Were you offended when BHO adopted Romneycare?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jun-25-19 11:47 AM

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162. "Offended? No.. but he stole that shit "
In response to Reply # 159


          

I just think it’s weird to get mad when someone says you stole some shit out didn’t come up with.

You stole it. Just give credit where it’s due instead of acting like it’s original.

shut up already, damn

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
11769 posts
Tue Jun-25-19 11:39 AM

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160. "Definitely, but give proper attribution."
In response to Reply # 154


          


If you take someone else's idea, don't then make slight changes to it, talk like you invented the whole thing, and then attack the original idea for "not going as far" as your version. This is one of the main mechanisms by which people have gotten the misapprehension that progressive candidates are not actually progressive.

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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188. "I agree, policy is where we win. Not just the candidate."
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Jon
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335. "Thank you! I hate when ppl complain about this... UNLESS"
In response to Reply # 154


          

Unkess the complaint contains a legit skepticism of the policy-biter's genuine commitment to said policy.

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Tue Jun-25-19 11:37 AM

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158. "Mayor Pete is the strongest candidate in my book"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'll admit i'm basing this off 70% optics and the boxes he checks off (gay, military, real america etc)


He can bring a lot of voting blocs together. on paper anyway.

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jun-25-19 11:52 AM

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163. "He’s had a bad week back home. "
In response to Reply # 158


          

A woman who lost a child to police brutality said if Pete won’t stop lying about fixing the problem he needs to step down.

and he’s gay. I don’t know if America is ready for a gay president.

He definitely made Beto irrelevant.

shut up already, damn

  

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Mynoriti
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165. "dude took ALL of Beto's thunder"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

as the exciting dynamic fresh face/
Beto's out here talking about a patriot tax or some shit trying to get anyone to look his way.

>and he’s gay. I don’t know if America is ready for a gay
>president.

i really wonder about this. I know it seems we've mostly turned the corner, and even people I know who are homophopbes are like "eh, fuck it" but at the same time, they're still homophobes.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Marauder21
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168. "Very bad look for him"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

Weirdly, he has more executive experience than most of the field. Could've been a strength, but mayor of a small town pretty much just has to not screw things up, and he's screwing things up.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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177. "RE: He’s had a bad week back home. "
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

>A woman who lost a child to police brutality said if Pete
>won’t stop lying about fixing the problem he needs to step
>down.

yikes, horrible look. He probably has the biggest hill to climb with black voters as any of the candidates. From what I've read it seems Biden has the most popular support among black democrats but thats of course name recognition and as the campaign goes on we will see what happens.


>
>He definitely made Beto irrelevant.


lol true. Beto is milk carton status right now. My prediction is that when you hear both speak at the debates this week - it will only get worse for Beto.

Pete comes across more poised and frankly smarter than Beto.

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
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Tue Jun-25-19 11:23 PM

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185. "i don't f*cking know why"
In response to Reply # 177


          

> From what
>I've read it seems Biden has the most popular support among
>black democrats but thats of course name recognition and as
>the campaign goes on we will see what happens.
>

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Tue Jun-25-19 12:07 PM

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164. " the strongest candidate ? How ?"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          


https://www.thedailybeast.com/pete-buttigieg-has-a-black-problem-top-african-american-leaders-say-he-is-naive-on-race


The tension reached a flashpoint as Buttigieg arrived in South Bend, which has a significant African-American population, on Friday, when a woman confronted him about his desire to win over black voters in the city. “You’re running for president and you want black people to vote for you?” the woman said. “That’s not going to happen.”

“Ma’am, I’m not asking for your vote,” Buttigieg responded.

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Brew
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166. "^^"
In response to Reply # 164


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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167. "Man, this doesn't seem like a good way to pick a candidate. "
In response to Reply # 158


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Jun-25-19 01:58 PM

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169. "Bruh. You said Zuckerberg could get your vote at one time"
In response to Reply # 167


          

I definitely think optics are huge in politics. It sucks but that’s the way it is.

Still baffles me how Howard Dean was cancelled off of one scream.
Dukakis in the tank helmet killed his chances.

Hillary didn’t do herself any favors fainting on 9/11.

I agree. It’s a shitty way but it’s America. We are fucked up when it comes to picking the best person for the job

shut up already, damn

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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176. "that wasn't me picking him though"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

was just pointing out who has the best optics this early on

of course he has dirt on him though

He definitely will have to shake what went down in South Bend and his problem with black voters somehow



the entire field has dirt or come across uninspiring or some combo of the two. We'll see what happens tmw

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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rob
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175. "he's a lot like an old-millenial Biden"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

which is why I think a lot of us like him. he's genuine. he's smart. but it's easy to be genuine when you're relatively privileged and selling yourself instead of a cornerstone policy shift. (he's letting other candidates sell those, even if he supports them).

but i don't trust him to not fuck up the optics (or even just get it) when he's dealing with adversity or disagreement.

he deserves a serious shot with this process and he'd make a good v.p. candidate as long as the top of the ticket isn't biden or bernie. (He'd also making a fucking great Secretary of State with enough grooming.)

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jun-25-19 02:44 PM

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170. "How does Beto get around immigration?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

El Paso feels like ground zero for child separation and detention at the border

How does he resolve that this is happening in his community

compounded by his decision to run for potus for 2 years instead of a local position

?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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171. "what?"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

he is not in office, he was running for texas senate. didnt get it. what more can he do as a citizen? if he was still in office maybe i could see your point but uh what?

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jun-25-19 03:18 PM

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172. "So when the issue is presented...he can say not my problem?"
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

Not on my watch?

He was an elected official in that community for over 10 years

In the context of today...I’m wondering how he avoids a negative hit on the subject

Makes him look ineffective during the time he did serve

and his time would have been better invested than seeking higher offices

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Brew
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173. "It's crazy to me how often you double down on irrelevant "positions" lol"
In response to Reply # 172
Tue Jun-25-19 03:36 PM by Brew

          

.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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178. "lol"
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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180. "child separation and detention is irrelevant?"
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Mynoriti
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181. " you know that's not what he meant "
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
11769 posts
Tue Jun-25-19 08:17 PM

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183. "I don't know if he does."
In response to Reply # 181


          

  

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Brew
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184. "LOL exactly."
In response to Reply # 183


          

The dude stacks strawmen on top of strawmen on top of strawmen then doubles and triples down on each til no one knows what they're talking about anymore.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Thu Jun-27-19 01:40 PM

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235. "So...ya'll still pretending immigration isn't an issue for Beto"
In response to Reply # 184
Thu Jun-27-19 01:41 PM by bentagain

  

          

If I'm the dummy...how is it I saw this coming

...and team Beto didn't...

?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62310 posts
Fri Jun-28-19 11:09 AM

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352. "Yeah. Folks kinda went in before thinking about it. "
In response to Reply # 235


          

shut up already, damn

  

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rob
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174. "nah this is a fair point. other candidates get called to task on their r..."
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

failing to have a significant record on literally the signature issue for conservatives isn't a positive for Beto, especially when it's on his doorstep.

  

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bentagain
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179. "Right, I expect Pete to be taken to task on criminal justice reform "
In response to Reply # 174
Tue Jun-25-19 05:42 PM by bentagain

  

          

Given the recent police shooting in south bend

I know there may be a more effective way to illustrate the point... but I didn’t think it was that hard to follow

LOL

The reason I’m throwing Beto’s name out... this is his primary platform issue...assumedly

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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191. "There's a big difference there. Buttegieg is still mayor of South Bend"
In response to Reply # 179
Wed Jun-26-19 08:49 PM by magilla vanilla

  

          

Beto gave up his Congressional seat to challenge Cruz. He can say that he thinks what's going on is terrible, but he's a private citizen running for the Presidency right now. When he was in Congress, he seems to have had a pretty progressive voting record on the topic, though: https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/78533/beto-orourke/40/immigration#.XRQfdy2ZO8U

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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bentagain
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201. "Are you saying it wasn’t an issue when he was in Congress?"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

https://www.apnews.com/d5ba3cb683b1434598e10a349bf0c3f6

Trumpster isn’t wrong on this deflection to BHO

Also, his record you linked to shows he voted against everything except 1 resolution...?

That absolves him?

He got pwned by Castro last night on immigration.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
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Tue Jun-25-19 11:24 PM

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186. "how do any of the dems get around immigration?"
In response to Reply # 170


          

>

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Jun-26-19 07:45 PM

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190. "Wow, right-wing dark money groups are trolling this debate. "
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jun-26-19 07:47 PM by stravinskian

          

Just in the last half hour of pre-game coverage, there've been two ads from right-wing groups.

The first was from some anti-abortion group that started out with a claim that American consensus is that abortion should be legal only in the first 3 months, but "pro-choice politicians" are blocking that consensus (funny how they're even using our word at this point), calling for abortion to be legal "up until birth" and for taxpayer dollars to fund abortions. Personally I think abortion should be legal "up until birth" and that the Hyde amendment should be dropped if anyone can find a way to do it. But it's interesting that they're so confident that they're stating actual mainstream progressive positions in attack ads. This should make us worry. In the general election we need politicians who can thread a very tricky needle and get past unpopular positions without looking like they're selling out (or being accused, from the left, after the delegate race is effectively over, that they're selling out).

Of course I wanted to talk back to the TV about whether this anti-abortion group really wanted to push for their supposed "consensus" of legal abortion up to three months. Something tells me they would not be satisfied with it.

The other ad was a group blasting Medicare for All, and explicitly scaring people with the accusation that M4A would end private health insurance. Certain candidates have already confirmed this deeply unpopular position. It'll be a problem if our general election candidate is saddled with explicit claims that they'll take away EVERYONE's health insurance.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Jun-26-19 08:53 PM

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192. "And on this second point, Liz has me worried right now. "
In response to Reply # 190


          


With this full-throated support for ending private insurance, taking something valuable away from over half the population while simultaneously putting millions of people out of work, a position that only two people on the stage were willing to take.

She knows better, of course. She knows a such bill would never even go up for a vote. But if she's gonna be the new frontrunner, she needs to be ready for those months when it's her versus Trump. She can nuance this but she doesn't seem to be trying. She's afraid Bernie is coming back.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Jun-26-19 09:00 PM

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193. "So far the debate's been a contentious snooze-fest."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jun-26-19 09:02 PM by stravinskian

          

I think Castro is gaining some real points so far, though, especially on specific reforms to immigration laws that everyone else seemed unfamiliar with. He's the main winner at the 1hr point, as far as I've seen. Everything else is pretty much as expected.

Watching Beto and Corey struggle with their Spanish has been entertaining. But the extent of it is certainly historic.

  

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mista k5
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Thu Jun-27-19 09:43 AM

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217. "all the spanish was weird to me"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

as a bilingual i found it annoying. stick to one language and people can tune in to the telecast that has the translation. just eats up time trying to answer in both languages.

im not voting for you based on how well you speak spanish.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Jun-27-19 10:16 AM

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225. "It's a really obvious pander."
In response to Reply # 217


          

Kind of an interesting pander, though, as it's not something a candidate can do frivolously. It really does take a lot of work and a lot of interest to learn a language, even at the conversational level. But it was silly that Beto did it in the very first question, and then Booker did it at his first opportunity after that. They were in a race.

I did get excited when Jose Diaz-Balart asked Beto a question in Spanish. I thought it was a test for him and wished I had popcorn. But then Jose repeated the question in English. It could have been a Rick Perry moment.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Thu Jun-27-19 10:29 AM

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226. "i have zero doubt beto is really good at spanish. just has an accent"
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

you kind of need to know spanish in el paso. there are some situations where talking in spanish makes sense, this was not one.

bookers spanish??? ouch. if he does know spanish he didnt make it seem like he did.

for some odd reason hearing them pronounce names properly in spanish got to me more lol

i think castro used his spanish in the most natural and effective way.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Jun-27-19 10:44 AM

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229. "Yeah Castro's Spanish was completely convincing."
In response to Reply # 226


          

I don't speak Spanish, but he came off completely self assured to me.

It was so good I assumed he grew up with it spoken regularly in his house or something. Maybe it was, but according to Wikipedia he isn't fluent. Obviously Cory isn't either, as I saw him admit in a post-debate interview.

But yeah, in the end it's a gimmick in this context. They found a way to fit it in just like de Blasio found a way to inform everyone that he has a black son.

  

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mista k5
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Thu Jun-27-19 10:52 AM

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230. "would have loved to be in bookers head when de blasio said that"
In response to Reply # 229


  

          

>But yeah, in the end it's a gimmick in this context. They
>found a way to fit it in just like de Blasio found a way to
>inform everyone that he has a black son.
>

  

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Binladen
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Wed Jun-26-19 09:57 PM

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194. "I like Tulsi, but I’m not sure if its just because I want to smash. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Time will tell...

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Wed Jun-26-19 10:11 PM

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195. "Rules of the game: half of each debate gotta go. Who are you kicking out..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Wed Jun-26-19 10:14 PM

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196. "Wednesday's roster: Which 5 are you dropping?"
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

I'm kicking out deBlasio, Beto, Tim Ryan, Castro, Delaney

Cory Booker
Bill de Blasio
Julián Castro
John Delaney
Tulsi Gabbard
Jay Inslee
Amy Klobuchar
Beto O'Rourke
Tim Ryan
Elizabeth Warren

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Jun-26-19 10:21 PM

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199. "I thought Castro elevated himself "
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

  

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Marauder21
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Thu Jun-27-19 09:52 AM

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221. "Beto, Ryan, Delaney, Klobuchar, Gabbard"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

First three were actively bad, Klobuchar essentially said fuck the base and give me more MAGA voters, Tulsi is literally a robot until someone proves otherwise.

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