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Case_One
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Mon May-06-19 09:16 AM

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"Should Athletes born as males be able to compete against females - ..."


          

Post puberty?

What would High School and College female sports look in 5 yrs like if biological males are granted full access to compete as females?

What would happen to scholarships, records, the spirit of fair competition?

Would you be upset if your daughter was unable to make a team or looses in a tournament to a biological male?

Or

Do you feel that this phenomenon is a new normal matter that's being into an issue for no reason?

Are people being insensitive?

Should gender specific sports be eliminated? If so, why and what would be the long-trem unintended consequences (negative and positive)?



House Democrats Vote to Let Boys Play on Girls’ Teams

Michael Foust | ChristianHeadlines.com Contributor | Friday, May 3, 2019

https://www.christianheadlines.com/contributors/michael-foust/house-democrats-vote-to-let-boys-play-on-girls-teams.html

House Democrats easily defeated an amendment this week that would have prevented biological females from being forced to compete against biological males in sporting events.

The amendment to the Equality Act by Republican Rep. Greg Steube of Florida was voted down Wednesday in the Democratic-controlled House Judiciary Committee, 22-10. Steube says he will bring the amendment back up on the floor.

Opponents and even supporters of the Equality Act warn the bill could forever harm female sports on the high school and collegiate level.

This week, three current or former female athletes – Doriane Coleman, Martina Navratilova and Sanya Richards-Ross – penned an editorial in The Washington Post asserting the bill “would make it unlawful to differentiate among girls and women in sports on the basis of sex for any purpose.” Navratilova’s stance is particularly noteworthy. She is a lesbian and has drawn loud criticism from the LGBT community for her stance.

Steube said his amendment would strengthen women’s sports.

“I’m offering this amendment today to ensure that our daughters are provided an equal playing field in sports for generations to come, and that female athletes are not competing against male athletes for athletic scholarships and Title IX funding,” Steube said. “... I want to guarantee that biological women are not forced to compete against biological men at all levels of athletic competition.”


Science, he said, “has proven time and time again that there is a significant performance difference between biological males and females from puberty onward.”

Steube referenced a biological male weightlifter who broke four female world records in a female competition. The weightlifter won all nine events in which he lifted.

“From percentage of lean muscle to heart size, body fat, and joint angles, the bodies of men and women are distinctly unique and produce a vast and tangible athletic performance differences. In fact, there is an average 10-12 percent performance gap between elite biological male and female athletes,” Steube said.

Coleman, Navratilova and Richards-Ross agreed, saying the “reality is that putting male- and female-bodied athletes together is co-ed or open sport.”

“And in open sport, females lose,” they wrote.

“Some Equality Act advocates argue that this is hyperbole and outdated stereotype,” the three women wrote. “They say, as the ACLU has, that there is ‘ample evidence that girls can compete and win against boys.’ They are wrong. The evidence is unequivocal that starting in puberty, in every sport except sailing, shooting and riding, there will always be significant numbers of boys and men who would beat the best girls and women in head-to-head competition. Claims to the contrary are simply a denial of science.”

The women noted that Team USA female sprinter Allyson Felix – who has won multiple world championships – has a lifetime best of 49.26 seconds in the 400 meters. But in 2018, 275 high school boys ran faster on 783 occasions.


“The sex differential isn’t the result of boys and men having a male gender identity, more resources, better training or superior discipline. It’s because they have androgenized bodies,” they wrote.


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
No. It is not fair competition
May 06th 2019
1
Yes
May 06th 2019
2
RE: Yes EDITED my Response
May 06th 2019
3
      Part of it is language. “Born male” is a dog whistle that
May 06th 2019
4
      Since when is stating “Born male” is a dog whistle and not a fact fo...
May 06th 2019
6
           “Born male” then transitioned is *literally* the reason for the term...
May 06th 2019
22
           Folks want it all
May 06th 2019
42
                BRUH!
May 06th 2019
48
           Technically, it’s assigned male at birth.
May 06th 2019
59
           I disagree and that's ok too.
May 06th 2019
62
           10/10 counter points. N/m
May 06th 2019
91
           i think 'assigned' is a misnomer in many cases also and ...
May 09th 2019
151
                well, two things:
May 09th 2019
155
           Born male seems a little reductive but adding a word like 'biologically'
May 09th 2019
150
      Those questions are answered in my first response
May 06th 2019
7
           Not to argue. I just asked you more questions based on your response
May 06th 2019
10
No. Folks that think so are probably the *real* women haters
May 06th 2019
5
That mma/ufc transgendered who knocks women out
May 06th 2019
12
I just hope this discussion helps us realize, as a society,
May 06th 2019
8
*to you
May 06th 2019
11
Correct
May 06th 2019
13
i get sensitive when i see statements like that
May 06th 2019
15
No, I already realize it.
May 06th 2019
16
Can you see any benefits from competitive sports?
May 06th 2019
14
Not a one.
May 06th 2019
18
      I'm interested in your perspective. It's a valid position.
May 06th 2019
19
      Nope. Don't even really play chess.
May 06th 2019
53
           RE: Nope. Don't even really play chess.
May 15th 2019
161
                Good Points
May 15th 2019
162
      Join the marching band that plays at sporting events?
May 06th 2019
20
      If they didn't have to play at sporting events they'd have better music.
May 06th 2019
30
      oh its not more nuanced...fuck
May 06th 2019
21
      You expect someone to have a nuanced discussion with Case?
May 06th 2019
33
           reply 15...i thought your reply had more nuance
May 06th 2019
36
                Yeah, I saw it, but again, I was just responding to Case's arguments.
May 06th 2019
44
      Are you male? If not, I wouldn't expect you to fully get this
May 06th 2019
25
      Which one of these things is exclusive to sport?
May 06th 2019
37
      Ugh. I am male. But this brings us back to the OP.
May 06th 2019
38
      Females and males are inherently different. Of course there will be 'nor...
May 06th 2019
45
           How about understand people as individuals?
May 06th 2019
51
                Fuck yeah
May 06th 2019
71
                     Then again, they're all Bernie supporters.
May 06th 2019
72
                          Ha, fair enough
May 06th 2019
75
                          Bernie got the lion’s share of the 2016 youth primary Dem vote
Mar 19th 2022
410
      Wow. That was the dumbest possible response.
May 07th 2019
118
      Professor Frink, everyone.
May 09th 2019
152
           Yeah, I'm rolling my eyes at basically that whole stream of cliches.
May 09th 2019
156
                Not sure where this animosity came from
May 10th 2019
160
It's enjoyable to play competitive sports
May 06th 2019
32
That is a valid point.
May 06th 2019
43
      RE: That is a valid point.
May 06th 2019
50
      *nods*
May 06th 2019
74
      I think there's is a case to be made on both sides
May 06th 2019
52
           The slope has slipped though
May 06th 2019
79
Also, to the extent this is about college admissions or scholarships,
May 06th 2019
46
they're a good outlet. Hope you mean the money part
May 06th 2019
61
No. I didn’t read the article either
May 06th 2019
9
I agree with you on the topic, but you could post real news sources
May 06th 2019
17
So the news is not valid because you don't know the source
May 06th 2019
23
LMAOOOOOOOO...
May 06th 2019
26
SMH. Thanks for posting.
May 06th 2019
27
so is that a yes or no to knowing what peer review means?
May 06th 2019
29
      You're right. It's not and you won't find that on most news sites
May 06th 2019
47
           I don't think you know what 'reputable' means either.
May 06th 2019
54
                Tell me why Salem Web Network is not a reputable organization?
May 06th 2019
58
                     I'm sure it's reputable to people who believe in the message/mission.
May 06th 2019
70
                     Because they gave Michelle Malkin a show.
May 06th 2019
85
                          Really... LOL I guess.
May 07th 2019
103
Hahahaha
May 06th 2019
31
It's no where near objective. And you post it asking for an objective
May 06th 2019
86
      MSNBC is not objective either. They have a serious Pro Dem Agenda.
May 07th 2019
101
      Exactly! On that note, WHATABOUT....
May 07th 2019
117
      That said, why do you agree with Case on the subject?
May 16th 2019
166
^^^^
May 07th 2019
119
Nope, it's just not fair...
May 06th 2019
24
Yes if they're taking the necessary hormones for re-assignment
May 06th 2019
28
Hormones can't reverse 17 years of development
May 06th 2019
35
      They can and they do
May 06th 2019
39
           Nah
May 06th 2019
41
           please tell me how hormones reverse bone density?
Dec 15th 2021
370
           please tell me how hormones reverse bone density?
Dec 15th 2021
371
           please tell me how hormones reverse bone density?
Dec 15th 2021
372
Of All things to be concerned about?
May 06th 2019
34
It’s sports.. so it’s something people worry about in Americ
May 06th 2019
40
Yes, but that doesn't mean it's right
May 06th 2019
57
      ^^
May 09th 2019
145
The concern is for young women to be able to compete in a safe, fun...
May 06th 2019
55
This is a non-issue that occurs so rarely that
May 06th 2019
56
      I agree that it's a pretty small issue. And it's 100% true...
May 06th 2019
90
      ^^
May 09th 2019
146
Yeah, it's an invented 'issue.'
May 06th 2019
63
      What are the Political reasons?
May 06th 2019
65
           Really?
May 06th 2019
66
           It plays into people's worse fears about a "gay agenda"
May 06th 2019
68
           they're not hidden lol
May 06th 2019
69
No.
May 06th 2019
49
maybe in balanced male female teams. 1 on 1 though hell no
May 06th 2019
60
No, but fuck these obvious agenda filled articles all the same
May 06th 2019
64
What's the agenda?
May 06th 2019
73
      here's a snapshot of the world demorcatcs/liberals want for us
May 06th 2019
76
           I'm not clicking that. I'm at work.
May 06th 2019
77
                there's nothing to click lol
May 06th 2019
78
In the interest of legal fairness, yes.
May 06th 2019
67
As a person who has competed professionally I'll say what I've always sa...
May 06th 2019
80
CHRISTIANHEADLINES DOT COM
May 06th 2019
81
LOL. Yep.
May 06th 2019
82
So, what competitive sports do they allow you to compete in?
May 06th 2019
83
      the one where I pretend to be a christian
May 06th 2019
84
           None. Shame on them
May 06th 2019
87
Except for combat sports I don't care one way or another about trans-lad...
May 06th 2019
88
nope.
May 06th 2019
89
If you believe that trans athletes shouldn't complete in combat sports -...
May 06th 2019
92
Not at all
May 07th 2019
95
Yes, all the way.
May 07th 2019
102
RE: If you believe that trans athletes shouldn't complete in combat spor...
Jan 05th 2022
381
RE: If you believe that trans athletes shouldn't complete in combat spor...
Mar 19th 2022
411
Absolutely.
May 06th 2019
93
I thought they debunked the Einstein brain having more neurons
May 07th 2019
94
The NCAA has 26-28 yr olds competing against 18 yr olds
May 07th 2019
96
Yeah, that’s not the same thing
May 07th 2019
97
It's not, but similar enough
May 07th 2019
98
      How many times have we heard a college adult
May 07th 2019
100
lol. Are middle age Mormons dominating collegiate athletics?
May 07th 2019
99
      So are you ok with trans folks competing if they're not dominating?
May 07th 2019
104
      Yeah
May 07th 2019
105
      BYU XC thrives on this loophole
May 07th 2019
106
           Where's the evidence? I don't see old BYU athletes being especially good...
May 07th 2019
107
           Fair - we may have to wait on current classes
May 07th 2019
109
           Runner up the last 2 years is pretty good
May 07th 2019
111
                I'm looking at the competitiveness of the individual athletes
May 07th 2019
113
           If there was a legit advantage you would see more athletes
May 07th 2019
108
           Most athletes aren't making money in the ncaa
May 07th 2019
110
           The reason is that it's against NCAA (DI) rules
May 07th 2019
112
           But you can also play minor league baseball
May 07th 2019
115
           Real question, how many trans female athletes have you seen
May 07th 2019
121
                Admittedly I know of only one. But that shouldn't matter
May 07th 2019
123
                     but isn't your argument about BYU that it doesn't matter
May 08th 2019
135
                          Let me make it simple. Most sports are segmented by sex for a reason
May 16th 2019
167
                               Can you be specific about these advantages?
May 16th 2019
169
           we act like athletes haven't been coming back from missions
Jun 23rd 2021
229
                lol. Yes, those old Mormons dominating collegiate athletics lol
Jun 23rd 2021
237
                     So, it's not an issue if it's not incredibly common?
Jul 01st 2021
302
                          What is the difference between a 23 year old runner and a 25 year old?
Jul 01st 2021
303
                               don't post in sports anymore
Aug 03rd 2021
309
what happens if "a guy" is impotent
May 07th 2019
114
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThirstyTintedBrahmancow-small.gif
May 07th 2019
122
Nothing happens
May 07th 2019
124
so it doesn't affect anything...
May 07th 2019
128
Are you equating impotence with genetic composition?
May 07th 2019
130
i guess, what is the composition of a man?
May 07th 2019
131
      A miserable little pile of secrets.
May 09th 2019
157
If a woman is sterile, does that make her an impotent man?
May 09th 2019
138
      i don't know, should it?
May 09th 2019
141
we get it already, you wish to delegitimize transgender life
May 07th 2019
116
Dude, you need a mentor and a strong role model.
May 07th 2019
120
      way to deflect from my point that we both know is the case
May 07th 2019
125
      You love flossing these wild accusations.
May 07th 2019
129
           "accusations" like this is a one off incident
May 08th 2019
133
                Dude, I'm free to talk about any subject I want
May 08th 2019
134
                     you figured it out. Im bisexual, gay or transitioning into a woman
May 09th 2019
137
                          That's on you.
May 09th 2019
142
                               .
May 09th 2019
147
      RE: Dude, you need a mentor and a strong role model.
May 15th 2019
164
An Article Discussing the Impact of Transgender Boys In Female Sport
May 07th 2019
126
Dailysignal? You want to link Sto*mf*ont and #Chan next?
May 07th 2019
132
      Does the source negate the truth, facts, and experience of an event?
May 08th 2019
136
           The article contains the line:
May 09th 2019
139
           So. That doesn't negate the facts of the story.
May 09th 2019
143
                Are there facts in the story?
May 09th 2019
148
                What do you depute?
May 09th 2019
153
                     There's nothing to dispute. Opinions aren't facts
May 10th 2019
159
                LMAOOOOOOO
May 09th 2019
154
           Also, you know it's crap because they're talking about track
May 09th 2019
140
           ^^^^^^^^^
Jun 29th 2021
293
           it matters in weeding out who's trying to have an honest conversation
May 09th 2019
144
💖❤💘💖💗💓💞💞💌❣💔❤🧡💛💚💙💜🖤
May 07th 2019
127
Yes, but with caveats/safety measures in place
May 09th 2019
149
I can't speak on every sport but in combat sports--hard no.
May 09th 2019
158
If it gets us a step closer to ending this experiment called America
May 15th 2019
163
The liberal media machine is amazing, it literally has
May 15th 2019
165
IRL or on OKP?
May 16th 2019
168
      OKP used to be very IRL, but I guess it's like Twitter is now.
May 16th 2019
170
i thought someone upped a 2006 post
May 16th 2019
171
Surprise! It's 2019... LOL
May 16th 2019
172
UPDATE! Trans woman competed as a man in 2018 wins 19 NCAA track title
May 30th 2019
173
This is an interesting take
May 30th 2019
174
She was sandbagging
May 30th 2019
176
      Looks that way. Folks need to be honest w/ themselves
May 30th 2019
177
If she ran this time in Division 1 she doesn't make it out of quarterfin...
May 30th 2019
179
      She was mediocre/below average as a man. One of the best as a woman
May 30th 2019
180
      Shit is wild
May 30th 2019
183
      Well that’s prolly why it was Div II
May 30th 2019
181
I believe some advocates don't really get the science of it all.
May 30th 2019
175
Those folks are talking about Caster Semenya
May 30th 2019
178
      Good point. Thanks.
May 30th 2019
182
      What they did to Caster Semenya is horrible too
May 30th 2019
184
           Agreed - she's coming back as a 3000m runner though
May 30th 2019
185
NZ Weightlifter to become first transgender athlete to compete at Olympi...
Jun 21st 2021
186
Good luck to her, but ole girl from China is gonna wash the fuck out of ...
Jun 21st 2021
187
Cough cough
Aug 02nd 2021
308
Another 10 years of or so and half the women’s olympic sports
Jun 21st 2021
188
      and when it isn't
Jun 21st 2021
191
           lol
Jun 21st 2021
192
Not sure.. but I think women should be deciding the rules for this..
Jun 21st 2021
189
Definitely!!!
Jun 21st 2021
190
agreed...its their competition..let them decide if they are cool wth it.
Jun 21st 2021
193
Do you consider trans women women?
Jun 21st 2021
194
      I consider them trans women (while respecting preferred pronouns)
Jun 21st 2021
195
           how do you check.
Jun 21st 2021
196
                RE: how do you check.
Jun 22nd 2021
197
                     that wasn't good enough for caster semenya
Jun 22nd 2021
198
                          RJ whats your take? should a 200lb man who still has a penis and decides
Jun 22nd 2021
204
                               is your hypothetical situation an actual problem?
Jun 22nd 2021
207
                               also it's really not that complex of an issue
Jun 22nd 2021
211
Can someone explain to me what the worst case scenario is?
Jun 22nd 2021
199
Jason Collins in the WNBA?
Jun 22nd 2021
200
imagine being this dumb of a fuck
Jun 22nd 2021
202
why don't you tell us?
Jun 22nd 2021
203
      because you don't pay me
Jun 22nd 2021
208
I'm not sure I understand the reference?
Jun 22nd 2021
205
      i thk he's suggesting that if collins at (appx) 7ft 260lbs up and...
Jun 22nd 2021
206
           there were two collinses. that never happened.
Jun 22nd 2021
209
                the question was "worst case scenario" not what happened genius
Jun 22nd 2021
210
                     why specifically is that the worst case scenario?
Jun 22nd 2021
212
                          its called an opinion, what do YOU think is worse?
Jun 23rd 2021
213
                               thermonuclear war, obvs
Jun 23rd 2021
214
women's athletics becomes a haven for failed male athletes
Jun 23rd 2021
215
LOL
Jun 23rd 2021
217
Sounds like the voter fraud "problem" Republicans are trying to "fix"
Jun 23rd 2021
220
the idea that people born as men will soak up all the women's championsh...
Jun 23rd 2021
221
white men are narcissistic sociopaths
Jun 23rd 2021
222
      then let them do it.
Jun 23rd 2021
224
      lol
Jun 23rd 2021
226
      you have no idea what person or event you're talking about
Jun 23rd 2021
227
      Hormone therapy has a huge effect on physical abilities
Jun 23rd 2021
230
           if you've developed and trained as an adult male
Jun 23rd 2021
231
                She was an elite weightlifter as a man and won't medal in Tokyo
Jun 23rd 2021
235
                     ...is this supposed to be a counter-argument to what I typed above?
Jun 23rd 2021
239
                          1) You said women's sports will be haven for failed, mediocre male athle...
Jun 24th 2021
249
                               Yeah, you didn't understand my original points, lol
Jun 24th 2021
259
                                    This is right up there with "you're the real racist"
Jun 25th 2021
270
                                         oh shut the fuck up
Jun 25th 2021
271
                                              we know what you are
Jun 25th 2021
272
                                              Lol dude show me the line of men lining up to become trans women
Jun 29th 2021
296
                                                   I'm not talking about trans folks in general
Jun 29th 2021
298
                                                        The pointr shared below is also the more likely white sociopath one imo
Jul 01st 2021
304
                                                             i'm sorry, I don't follow what you're saying here
Jul 01st 2021
307
Then let it happen.
Jun 23rd 2021
223
      I feel like people that have daughters who compete in competitive sports...
Jun 23rd 2021
225
           lol
Jun 23rd 2021
228
                RE: lol
Jun 23rd 2021
232
                     nope
Jun 23rd 2021
241
                          RE: nope
Jun 23rd 2021
242
                               if you acknowledge that you don't have any place in the discussion
Jun 23rd 2021
243
                                    What is your place other than the board troll?
Jun 23rd 2021
244
                                         I'm around
Jun 24th 2021
263
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_69TQPNIac
Jan 04th 2022
379
There should be an even playing field,
Jun 22nd 2021
201
Not sure what gender identity has to do with sexual preference
Jun 23rd 2021
216
It doesn’t matter if it’s nature or nurture.
Jun 23rd 2021
233
      She didn't have a choice on her gender as a child
Jun 23rd 2021
236
           There is no way they can let her race in the women’s division.
Jun 23rd 2021
245
this is the bullshit argument they are making against Simone Biles
Jun 23rd 2021
218
huh? Phelps is in an event where speed determines the winner
Jun 23rd 2021
219
Phelps has some sort of abnormal lungs that makes him a much better
Jun 24th 2021
252
      Exactly. Also consider differences in average height btwn populations
Jun 24th 2021
254
      lmao.. no, I don’t agree with this argument at all
Jun 28th 2021
276
Yeah, you do have a point in regards to black women.
Jun 23rd 2021
234
your definition of sex is woefully inadequate
Jun 23rd 2021
238
You’re speaking of a syndrome, not a constant.
Jun 23rd 2021
240
???
Jun 23rd 2021
246
      Well said.
Jun 23rd 2021
247
      Your belief has nothing to do with natural law.
Jun 24th 2021
248
           I don't think pathologizing sexual and gender minorities is helpful here...
Jun 24th 2021
251
           So you want to remove pretty much all opportunities for women in sports?
Jun 25th 2021
273
                Not at all.I think desegregating would expand opportunities not restrict
Jun 25th 2021
274
                     Again...good intentions, but completely divorced from reality.
Jun 28th 2021
278
                          You're still centering the sex binary.
Jun 28th 2021
282
                               Agree to disagree, I guess
Jun 29th 2021
288
           NOPE. Lets open the gates ALL the way.
Jun 24th 2021
257
                The logic is Bob Beamon?
Jun 24th 2021
258
                     people will adapt.
Jun 24th 2021
260
                          So you want to be reactive instead of proactive??
Jun 24th 2021
265
                               It’s from all the bootlickin’ homie
Jun 24th 2021
266
                               Pull that arm back Stretch Armstrong
Jun 24th 2021
267
                                    Life NATURALLY plateaus unless it’s UNNATURALLY
Jun 24th 2021
268
                                         cats are really going a long way to make sense of nonsense
Jun 28th 2021
279
                                              these dudes in here want to see women get fucked all the way up
Jun 29th 2021
287
I've always understood gender to be a social construct.
Jun 24th 2021
253
The prob with "scientific" exclusionary arguments like this is
Jun 24th 2021
250
      Castor Semenya wasn’t singled out. She singled herself out because
Jun 24th 2021
255
           This is a terrible argument.
Jun 24th 2021
256
                What’s terrible?
Jun 24th 2021
261
                     I never said she looks like a man. And I feel like you're making my pt.
Jun 24th 2021
262
                          This isn’t an attack on black women, and this isn’t necessarily a
Jun 24th 2021
264
                               Ok. I mean, ya, that's some compelling history.
Jun 24th 2021
269
                                    He looks like a man. Should be ashamed of himself. Need trans sports
Jun 26th 2021
275
You would probably feel different
Jun 28th 2021
277
Really? Do tell.
Jun 28th 2021
280
Yeah, you should.
Jun 29th 2021
284
      RE: Yeah, you should.
Jun 29th 2021
286
           Right. Additionally, that *one* MMA fight keeps getting brought up
Jun 29th 2021
292
                lol Im an MMA fan so i have a different perspective here
Jun 29th 2021
295
                     lol fair enough
Jun 29th 2021
297
how do you know your daughter isn't right now?
Jun 28th 2021
281
^^^^^^^^
Jun 29th 2021
294
The better ques is how you'd feel if your daughter was the trans athlete...
Jun 28th 2021
283
      ^^^ key point ^^^
Jun 29th 2021
285
      I'd tell them that the world doesn't operate based upon how they feel
Jun 29th 2021
289
      lol
Jun 29th 2021
291
      I would feel the same way
Jun 29th 2021
290
           it's not the breaks if a girl loses to someone who she suspects is trans...
Jul 01st 2021
305
Hell 2 tha no
Jul 01st 2021
299
If your daughter has short hair and wins at sports
Jul 01st 2021
300
You're *never* gonna get people to address this
Jul 01st 2021
301
      they just want to feel like they have someone to shit on
Jul 01st 2021
306
No.
Aug 03rd 2021
310
Penn female swimmer speaks out against trans teammate
Dec 10th 2021
311
And?
Dec 10th 2021
312
when did Mikediggz have a bigger than sports rant?
Dec 10th 2021
314
      i thought it was a pretty straight fwd qstn lol...should the teammate
Dec 10th 2021
315
           its because deep down they know.. lol
Dec 10th 2021
317
Yes they have reason for concern
Dec 10th 2021
313
kinda hard to dispute from what i see
Dec 10th 2021
316
well, if someone anonymously speaks to the ny post
Dec 11th 2021
318
relax good brother...a quick google search will show that the
Dec 11th 2021
322
      oh, so if "legit" sites pick it up from the known bigots
Dec 11th 2021
323
           but youre still drifting away from the main topic tho...with all that we...
Dec 11th 2021
324
                lol.. but Fox Nooooze
Dec 12th 2021
325
                I answered the question of you obsessing about the moisturization of my ...
Dec 12th 2021
327
                it's not an actual question
Dec 12th 2021
326
                     wow RJ thats really presumptive of you bro.
Dec 12th 2021
331
                          that's a lot of typing to say that I'm right
Dec 13th 2021
332
                               if u perceive that as a win cool but that particular point is moot
Dec 13th 2021
334
                                    like some said up above. When records are smashed
Dec 13th 2021
335
                                    old girl is slated to be the GOAT
Dec 13th 2021
337
                                         could be 40 seconds you still wouldn't care
Dec 13th 2021
346
                                              sure to hear u tell it...not sure how u make these big assumptions
Dec 14th 2021
347
                                                   I don't have to tell it, you agreed.
Dec 14th 2021
364
                                                        i didnt agree that it could be 40 seconds i still wouldn't care
Dec 14th 2021
367
                                                             there is no main issue b, we already talked about that
Dec 14th 2021
369
                                    who said there's a win?
Dec 13th 2021
345
                                         so im automatically a bigot if i at all question a one size fits all
Dec 14th 2021
348
                                              but you knew he was coming - Jungle Fever
Dec 14th 2021
351
                                                   yep. this situation is a case study that illustrates worst case
Dec 14th 2021
354
this is pretty much common sense
Dec 11th 2021
319
*passes beer around*
Dec 11th 2021
320
Who gives a fuck??????????????????????????????
Dec 11th 2021
321
parents of cisgender daughters?
Dec 12th 2021
328
so you think that men should be looking up your daughter's skirt
Dec 12th 2021
329
      how many daughters do you have?
Dec 12th 2021
330
           I have just one son, he posts on OKP as ThaTruth
Dec 13th 2021
333
                So none?
Dec 13th 2021
339
                     he is like those anti CRT clowns with no kids at PTA meetings
Dec 13th 2021
340
                          so are you taking your daughters in for their femininity verification?
Dec 13th 2021
344
                               their medical documents are already in the healthcare system
Dec 14th 2021
350
                                    sorry bro, proof needed. send your daughters with dr. nassar to get chec...
Dec 14th 2021
365
                                         you sound real MAGA right now
Dec 22nd 2021
377
You see this response alot when the answer is obvious.
Dec 13th 2021
336
      such a weird response
Dec 13th 2021
338
      Why?
Dec 13th 2021
341
      RE: Why?
Dec 13th 2021
342
      what if they're jewish buddy?
Dec 13th 2021
343
           ^^^Did not answer whether he has kidsq
Dec 14th 2021
353
                now you know damn well the loudest people in these debates usually…
Dec 14th 2021
357
                it would explain your obsession with genitals in general, and mine speci...
Dec 14th 2021
363
The Penn University situation is a disturbing one.
Dec 14th 2021
349
But this isn't driven by a desire to win at sports though
Dec 14th 2021
352
      you nailed it.
Dec 14th 2021
355
      There is a simple solution. Only naturally born women should
Dec 14th 2021
361
           Unless it’s physical contact its just numbers
Dec 14th 2021
366
      You’re incorrect. Winning plays a role, which was stated as much
Dec 14th 2021
356
      They aint winning though.
Dec 14th 2021
358
           Lot of winning going on in that snippet you posted lol
Dec 14th 2021
359
           They aint.. she is.. lol
Dec 14th 2021
360
                How you get a 14 second advantage and end up fourth
Dec 14th 2021
362
           The other problem is you really can't win.
Dec 14th 2021
368
No
Dec 15th 2021
373
No
Dec 15th 2021
374
Why didn't you say you were a woman???????????
Dec 21st 2021
376
      RE: Why didn't you say you were a woman???????????
Jan 20th 2022
383
Would have never guessed JEOPARDY! would have been next.
Dec 21st 2021
375
Here’s the physiological breakdown from an elite cyclist who transitio...
Jan 03rd 2022
378
Well, interesting but that is one individual case.
Jan 04th 2022
380
Interesting thread....long thread but worth the read. Check THIS out
Jan 20th 2022
382
Lia Thomas wins an NCAA swimming national championship
Mar 17th 2022
384
RE: Lia Thomas wins an NCAA swimming national championship
Mar 17th 2022
385
Not what I was expecting at all
Mar 18th 2022
386
it's weird how you suddenly became a massive fan of women's college swim...
Mar 18th 2022
388
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2019-06/20/11/asset/buzz...
Mar 18th 2022
391
      EVERY. TIME.
Mar 18th 2022
392
      boy can't even say he's scared
Mar 18th 2022
393
      evergreen
Mar 18th 2022
395
is that a particularly fast time?
Mar 18th 2022
396
weird, all the swim fans seem to have disappeared
Mar 18th 2022
402
My older brother won a national championship at Univ of Texas
Mar 19th 2022
409
      what is disingenuous is comparing your brother's time to women's
Mar 20th 2022
413
      She went from being ranked in the 500s to top 5 in the 200 free
Mar 20th 2022
416
           So, now you want to do an apple/oranges comparison over rankings?
Mar 20th 2022
417
                Actually, I don’t. It’s really not worth the back and forth.
Mar 20th 2022
418
                     not worth the back and forth...yet, here you are...back 'n forth'n it
Mar 20th 2022
419
      I don't know who you're talking to
Mar 21st 2022
423
That list is the top 10 women of all time. Not the 2019 championships
Mar 19th 2022
406
      please read what I typed
Mar 19th 2022
407
           Fair enough
Mar 20th 2022
414
                who said she isn't fast?
Mar 21st 2022
424
Lia Thomas finishes 8th in 100-yard freestyle
Mar 20th 2022
415
      UNFAIR BRUH
Mar 21st 2022
427
           heh and not a peep from your fanclub on Thomas' loss(es) n/m
Mar 24th 2022
454
I say yes only out of spite
Mar 18th 2022
387
how many listens can hormones help you get on your soundcloud
Mar 18th 2022
389
      More than can they can help with your height
Mar 18th 2022
405
           you have the link right there fam
Mar 19th 2022
408
Anybody that disagrees with this issue is phobic.
Mar 18th 2022
390
who said that?
Mar 18th 2022
394
Imagine how weird it is to take the position that
Mar 18th 2022
397
I just don't get the compromise position on this
Mar 18th 2022
398
you can't reply to anyone because your argument is made up
Mar 18th 2022
400
      I can reply to anyone but you sorry. Read sig
Mar 18th 2022
403
      bro, I'm the only person you are replying to
Mar 18th 2022
404
      ∆∆∆ did not and can not respond substantively
Mar 20th 2022
420
           I literally said that the people who run the sport are in the best place...
Mar 21st 2022
425
so you admit you don't give a shit about these sports
Mar 18th 2022
399
also it's pretty simple
Mar 18th 2022
401
This thread is pure, unadulterated trash.
Mar 20th 2022
412
Great arguments ITT:
Mar 21st 2022
421
why is katie ledecky allowed to swim much faster times thanks to her
Mar 21st 2022
422
lol
Mar 21st 2022
426
You ain't the only one copy-pasting shit from twitter.
Mar 21st 2022
428
      you don’t care about women like RJCC CARES about women
Mar 21st 2022
429
      yeah, you care about women a lot
Mar 21st 2022
430
           lmao.. the fact you think someone believes women are property says a lot
Mar 22nd 2022
433
           you don't actually reference any women other than your wife or daughter
Mar 22nd 2022
439
                damn bruh.. you lost a step. These replies are lazy af
Mar 22nd 2022
442
                     time to change the subject now that you realize you fucked up
Mar 22nd 2022
444
                          your “I’m rubber, your glue” response was so powerful
Mar 22nd 2022
446
                               it's funny how you haven't gone back to your original subject and you wo...
Apr 02nd 2022
515
           what's the basis for this?
Mar 22nd 2022
435
                His list of ways to hate and downgrade women is extremely detailed
Mar 22nd 2022
437
                ...your post suggests you've created a list
Mar 22nd 2022
438
                sorry if you haven't been reading
Mar 22nd 2022
440
                     so it's about your imagination version of what people are saying. got it...
Mar 22nd 2022
441
                          I know bb, it's difficult for you to look around and realize the losers
Mar 22nd 2022
443
                          bro, you're up there dropping hypotheticals about looking up kids skirts
Mar 22nd 2022
447
                               shit is sad.. and weird af
Mar 22nd 2022
448
                               oh I forgot, y'all haven't ever actually spoken to a woman
Apr 01st 2022
507
                                    imagining more things doesn't erase your weirdo kid skirt references
Apr 01st 2022
510
                                         look man, if you want grown men evaluating little girls
Apr 02nd 2022
514
                                              look man, if you want to open the borders and give ms-13 obamacare
Apr 02nd 2022
519
                                                   five lines. every single one addresses a different point
Apr 03rd 2022
523
                                                        lmao @ you fucked up
Apr 03rd 2022
524
                          lol… he created his own metoo metaverse on OKP
Mar 22nd 2022
445
      i'm trying not to call you a liar my boy but you said you weren't replyi...
Mar 21st 2022
431
           the 17th fastest swimmer is convinced lia thomas kept her out of the fin...
Mar 21st 2022
432
bruh the use of black women as meat shields for white men is WIIIILD
Mar 22nd 2022
434
      Didn't say anything because people in here....
Mar 22nd 2022
436
NBC news compares Lia to Jackie Robinson (WTF)
Mar 23rd 2022
449
Mar 23rd 2022
450
      She will be woman of the year at the ESPY’s
Mar 23rd 2022
453
Lia Thomas has male genitalia and is allowed to parade
Mar 23rd 2022
451
lol concern trolling
Mar 23rd 2022
452
damn i thought she had transitioned (had the surgery)
Mar 24th 2022
455
      wild situation
Mar 24th 2022
456
           It's just a penis (c) Author Unknown
Mar 24th 2022
457
           Are we transphobic if this makes us uncomfortable?
Mar 24th 2022
458
           HE has a DICK and GONADS.
Mar 24th 2022
460
                *plays devil's advocate*
Mar 24th 2022
462
                No. I don’t have to respect that.
Mar 24th 2022
464
                You are a gutless piece of shit.
Mar 25th 2022
465
                     lmao
Mar 25th 2022
466
           I read that last line differently.. lol
Mar 24th 2022
459
                lol. Story just took a wild twist
Mar 24th 2022
461
                     that’s exactly how it reads.. lol
Mar 24th 2022
463
Utah lawmakers ban transgender athletes from competing
Mar 25th 2022
467
You down with this even if it's coming from the same group
Mar 25th 2022
468
I approve of the law, not the group.
Mar 25th 2022
469
      It's the same thing
Mar 25th 2022
470
Ah yes let's further demonize an already vulnerable group of people
Mar 26th 2022
471
They are not girls or women, and never will be.
Mar 26th 2022
472
      Everyone on this board knows you're stupid, except you.
Mar 26th 2022
473
           Thank you for the insults and name calling.
Mar 26th 2022
           You're a pompous little prick
Mar 27th 2022
475
           Thank you for the insults and name calling.
Mar 26th 2022
474
           How long have you fought for equal rights for women?
Mar 27th 2022
476
           ^
Mar 28th 2022
478
Every. Single. Day.
Mar 28th 2022
479
Lia was ranked 500+ as a male and 5th as a woman in the 200 freestyle
Mar 27th 2022
477
She might have been on test blockers already tho as a man
Mar 28th 2022
480
Help me understand, sincerely
Mar 28th 2022
481
They are trying to make it sex-neutral
Mar 28th 2022
482
      I get that. Thanks.
Mar 28th 2022
483
Transgender women are not natural women no matter
Mar 28th 2022
484
      Every. Fucking. Day.
Mar 29th 2022
485
      lol
Mar 29th 2022
486
      I give my opinion on topics. I don’t attack people, which is
Mar 29th 2022
491
           "I don't attack people" says the asshole who's misgendering transpeople.
Mar 30th 2022
499
                You’re attacking me on a personal level.
Mar 30th 2022
500
                     You can make your argument about sports without misgendering transpeople...
Mar 30th 2022
501
                     This is untrue:
Mar 31st 2022
502
                          ^
Mar 31st 2022
503
      Relying on Natural Law is Bogus.
Mar 29th 2022
487
           Relying on Natural Law is bogus?
Mar 29th 2022
488
           why do y'all keep using black people as meat shields for this bullshit?
Mar 29th 2022
496
                its weird how Black folk end up defending white males who transition
Mar 30th 2022
498
who is this argument even against?
Apr 01st 2022
506
Caitlyn Jenner, a transgender woman, is against transgender
Mar 29th 2022
489
is Caitlyn a 'she' because you agree with her?
Mar 29th 2022
490
Accidental
Mar 29th 2022
492
Caitlyn Jenner is trash and a trump supporter.
Mar 29th 2022
493
      Caitlyn Jenner is a former athlete and is a transgender.
Mar 29th 2022
494
      lmao
Mar 29th 2022
495
      Fox literally just hired her. Debuting on Hannity tonight
Mar 31st 2022
504
      there might be a reason it sounds terrible idk
Apr 01st 2022
505
           I’m on the side of biological women, who don’t want
Apr 01st 2022
508
                interesting coincidence about this
Apr 01st 2022
509
                     I am a Democrat.
Apr 01st 2022
511
                          Doesn’t matter. If you eat bacon and Tucker Carlson says he likes baco...
Apr 01st 2022
512
                               you out here cosigning the dumbest mf on the board, LOL
Apr 02nd 2022
513
how does all this work with Title IX?
Mar 30th 2022
497
It’s in violation of that civil rights law.
Apr 02nd 2022
516
      Correction:
Apr 02nd 2022
517
      I know allstah doesn't have as many brain cells as my car's spark plugs
Apr 02nd 2022
518
They claim it's about fairness and trophies.
Apr 02nd 2022
520
Fair point, but this isn’t a clear cut liberal vs conservative issue
Apr 03rd 2022
521
where did his reply say anything about liberal or conservative?
Apr 03rd 2022
522
Your perception is highly incorrect.
Apr 03rd 2022
525
      .
Apr 03rd 2022
526

PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15686 posts
Mon May-06-19 09:25 AM

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1. "No. It is not fair competition"
In response to Reply # 0


          

_______________________________________

  

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Walleye
Charter member
15288 posts
Mon May-06-19 09:28 AM

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2. "Yes"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's utterly unsurprising that this article fails to mention that the NCAA has its own transgender policy that's been in place for the better part of a decade that draws clear lines and avoids the chaos that a lot of this amendment's advocates pretend to be concerned with.

I'd be more willing to accept that the people here were trying to protect women's sports if they didn't keep trying to scare people by making it seem like transgender people were trying to steal something of actual monetary value, like scholarships to NCAA schools. That's a lie, and the people doing it are liars. And it should make us doubt their motives.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Case_One
Charter member
54687 posts
Mon May-06-19 09:40 AM

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3. "RE: Yes EDITED my Response "
In response to Reply # 2
Mon May-06-19 09:46 AM by Case_One

          

>It's utterly unsurprising that this article fails to mention
>that the NCAA has its own transgender policy that's been in
>place for the better part of a decade that draws clear lines
>and avoids the chaos that a lot of this amendment's advocates
>pretend to be concerned with.
>

So are the state legislatures misinformed and are wrong?

So, could this have soemthing to do with the argument? I'm asking not debating.

"School sports are actually not mentioned in the Equality Act, nor does it amend Title IX, which outlaws discrimination in education on the basis of sex. But the bill would change other existing civil rights laws governing educational settings. And that would provide a legal basis for transgender students to make the claim in court that they have a right to compete on teams that match their gender identity."

https://www.outsports.com/2019/4/3/18294310/transgender-inclusion-trans-sports-house-equality-athletes




>I'd be more willing to accept that the people here were trying
>to protect women's sports if they didn't keep trying to scare
>people by making it seem like transgender people were trying
>to steal something of actual monetary value, like scholarships
>to NCAA schools. That's a lie, and the people doing it are
>liars. And it should make us doubt their motives.

What points are being used to scare people? Who said that anyone was intending or purposefully trying to steal something? So, are you saying that bringing up unintened consequences is a scare tactic?





.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10122 posts
Mon May-06-19 09:43 AM

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4. "Part of it is language. “Born male” is a dog whistle that "
In response to Reply # 3
Mon May-06-19 09:43 AM by sweeneykovar

  

          

Calls on the tired stereotypes of transgender people as ‘fake’ women or men out to ‘trick’ people.

  

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Case_One
Charter member
54687 posts
Mon May-06-19 09:45 AM

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6. "Since when is stating “Born male” is a dog whistle and not a fact fo..."
In response to Reply # 4


          

>Calls on the tired stereotypes of transgender people as
>‘fake’ women or men out to ‘trick’ people.


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13166 posts
Mon May-06-19 10:16 AM

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22. "“Born male” then transitioned is *literally* the reason for the term..."
In response to Reply # 6


          

Yeah, not sure how that's a 'dog whistle'

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
73788 posts
Mon May-06-19 10:46 AM

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42. "Folks want it all"
In response to Reply # 22


          

and it’s a slippery slope.

Let another Rachael Dolezal pop up snatching scholarships because they transitioned to Black and folks get out their fine tooth combs to speak about how it’s different.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Case_One
Charter member
54687 posts
Mon May-06-19 11:00 AM

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48. "BRUH!"
In response to Reply # 42


          

>and it’s a slippery slope.
>
>Let another Rachael Dolezal pop up snatching scholarships
>because they transitioned to Black and folks get out their
>fine tooth combs to speak about how it’s different.

ALL FACTS!


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10122 posts
Mon May-06-19 11:47 AM

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59. "Technically, it’s assigned male at birth. "
In response to Reply # 6
Mon May-06-19 11:48 AM by sweeneykovar

  

          

There’s a difference. And yes it becomes a dog whistle, not through the specific intent every single time it’s used (i don’t know you or what you think/feel about trans folks) but because it is often used to connect, again, to a long and tired and violent history of trans ppl as ‘confused’ ‘ill’ or in some way trying to be someone they’re actually not.

  

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Case_One
Charter member
54687 posts
Mon May-06-19 11:55 AM

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62. "I disagree and that's ok too. "
In response to Reply # 59


          



.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10122 posts
Mon May-06-19 06:07 PM

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91. "10/10 counter points. N/m"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Thu May-09-19 04:20 PM

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151. "i think 'assigned' is a misnomer in many cases also and ..."
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

it undermines those who really were "assigned." i remember in college reading about how many interstitial sex babies there were, it was astonishingly common (we are talking 1 in 2000 type common, which is quite common really). in some cases there was intervention to sort of steer the child biologically toward a certain gender (including surgery), and i would consider that "assigned" gender. but the majority of babies are not "assigned" a gender in any medical or biological sense, and to posit that they are undermines the significant minority that does have that experience.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10122 posts
Thu May-09-19 06:24 PM

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155. "well, two things:"
In response to Reply # 151
Thu May-09-19 06:28 PM by sweeneykovar

  

          

I'm not sure how it is a misnomer because someone other than the individual (their parents, the doctors, the state) checks either M or F on the birth certificate.

and two, that's the language the trans community, by large, seems to use and want others to use as a form of respectful acknowledgement that the gender they identify with is their actual gender, not a 'choice.'

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Thu May-09-19 04:17 PM

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150. "Born male seems a little reductive but adding a word like 'biologically'"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

only adds clarity where things were already relatively clear. i swear to god some people are just semantics warriors now.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Walleye
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7. "Those questions are answered in my first response"
In response to Reply # 3


          

Insisting that I repeat myself according to your specific language choice isn't how you ask a good faith question.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Case_One
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10. "Not to argue. I just asked you more questions based on your response"
In response to Reply # 7
Mon May-06-19 10:11 AM by Case_One

          

because I respect your insight. And you didn't answer my second set of questions. You tossed out pure opinion. But OK. Cool. Thanks for responding.


>Insisting that I repeat myself according to your specific
>language choice isn't how you ask a good faith question.


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 09:44 AM

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5. "No. Folks that think so are probably the *real* women haters"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Look at this

http://oi64.tinypic.com/ao2of8.jpg
https://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ecad97002159430797c38516e5bb115d.jpg?w=524
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/02/26/sports/26WRESTLING/26WRESTLING-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale
55x850/1200x800/filters:focal" target="_blank">https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/OohMeh2334BesUneo3yXwIhfvhg=/0x13 55x850/1200x800/filters:focal(229x175:459x405)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/60062503/Screen_Shot_2018_06_13_at_8.33.42_PM.0.png

Does this look fair to girls and women, at all? Male and female bodies are different and largely unchangeable. Trans athletes can compete in the boys/male leagues if they want.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon May-06-19 09:53 AM

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12. "That mma/ufc transgendered who knocks women out"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Has to be the weirdest shit in the world.

Cold clockin women.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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8. "I just hope this discussion helps us realize, as a society,"
In response to Reply # 0


          


how pointless and silly competitive sports really are.

  

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tomjohn29
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11. "*to you"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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13. "Correct"
In response to Reply # 11


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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tomjohn29
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15. "i get sensitive when i see statements like that"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

almost went off but Starv is a black belt in education and i know his response is way more nuanced then that

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 10:03 AM

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16. "No, I already realize it."
In response to Reply # 11


          


That's why I said "as a society."

I'm just lazily poasting, though. I'm not gonna really fight this fight in here.

My real answer to the original question is: Yeah, it's complicated, but I don't take the current "controversy" seriously at all.

As a society, we have to come to some just consensus about what gender really means, and that will take some time and force us to reevaluate how certain things work, even things with long traditions.

But when Republicans introduce a bill that involves transgender issues, in any way, in 2019, you're a fucking fool if you think they actually care about the issue.

  

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Case_One
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Mon May-06-19 09:57 AM

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14. "Can you see any benefits from competitive sports?"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Like the development of:

Leadership Skills
Teamwork skills
Self-Respect
Sel-discipline
A platform that can be used for good
The creation of financial security and philanthropy
Servanthood
Dedication
etc.




.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 10:11 AM

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18. "Not a one."
In response to Reply # 14


          

>Like the development of:
>
>Leadership Skills

Join the band.

>Teamwork skills

Join the band.

>Self-Respect

If your self-respect comes from having good biochemistry, it's not very valuable self respect. Do something creative.

>Sel-discipline

Study math.

>A platform that can be used for good

There are a million platforms, and I don't see sports used for good all that often.

>The creation of financial security and philanthropy

Financial security? Like practicing every day to make it into the NFL, and if you're incredibly lucky, making it and retiring five years later with brain damage and a shitty pension, when you could have spent your youth studying to be a doctor?

>Servanthood

What the fuck is that?

>Dedication

Now you're just typing words.


Like I said above, I'm not really trying to postjack here, so we can let this argument drop. But I honestly don't see anything of value in competitive sports. On the contrary, I see a huge amount of harm that's done in modern society by our obsession with "winning."

  

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Case_One
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19. "I'm interested in your perspective. It's a valid position."
In response to Reply # 18


          

Have you ever played "competitive" sports?


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 11:15 AM

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53. "Nope. Don't even really play chess."
In response to Reply # 19


          

>Have you ever played "competitive" sports?


Occasionally play a bit of poker, but that's for money, not for glory. There, trying to win is a good way to lose.

  

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ToeJam
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161. "RE: Nope. Don't even really play chess."
In response to Reply # 53


          

Learning how to deal with competition is a life-long survival skill. My students who don't play competitive sports almost always have more difficulty dealing with adversity.

Sports also provide an enjoyable means of keeping one's body in shape. Do you exercise at all? Or you just unhealthy sports critic? How do you exercise? Kids that grow up playing competitive sports are less likely to be obese as adults.

And are you smart enough for chess? I would kick your @$$.

  

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Case_One
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162. "Good Points"
In response to Reply # 161


          


.
.

“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon May-06-19 10:14 AM

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20. "Join the marching band that plays at sporting events? "
In response to Reply # 18


          

Lmao... just admit you sucked at sports.

It’s nit for everyone but it’s wild to act like there aren’t any benefits.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 10:31 AM

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30. "If they didn't have to play at sporting events they'd have better music."
In response to Reply # 20
Mon May-06-19 10:33 AM by stravinskian

          

My band didn't play at sporting events. We certainly didn't march.

And I didn't give a fuck about sports, because they're silly, so of course I sucked at them. But I also suck at chemistry, and I see plenty of value in that.

  

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tomjohn29
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21. "oh its not more nuanced...fuck "
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 10:34 AM

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33. "You expect someone to have a nuanced discussion with Case? "
In response to Reply # 21


          

  

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tomjohn29
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36. "reply 15...i thought your reply had more nuance "
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

i was wrong

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 10:49 AM

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44. "Yeah, I saw it, but again, I was just responding to Case's arguments."
In response to Reply # 36


          


And they didn't really deserve much nuance, did they?

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13166 posts
Mon May-06-19 10:21 AM

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25. "Are you male? If not, I wouldn't expect you to fully get this"
In response to Reply # 18


          

Males are activity based. We do things together. We challenge each other. We challenge other teams of men. It's how we form bonds. Sports is a part of that.

Period.

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Mon May-06-19 10:38 AM

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37. "Which one of these things is exclusive to sport?"
In response to Reply # 25


          

>Males are activity based. We do things together. We challenge
>each other. We challenge other teams of men. It's how we form
>bonds. Sports is a part of that.
>
>Period.

Our culture is so sports-centric it's almost impossible for someof us to realize that yes, there are other ways for kids to learn team work, hard work, etc.

Just like you can learn morality without religion.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 10:39 AM

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38. "Ugh. I am male. But this brings us back to the OP."
In response to Reply # 25


          


This dumb antiquated gender norm is what's putting us in this situation in the first place.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 10:53 AM

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45. "Females and males are inherently different. Of course there will be 'nor..."
In response to Reply # 38


          

It's unfair to either sex (or gender, in this case) to ignore the differences and forcibly try to treat different people with different needs and wants as 'the same.'

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 11:08 AM

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51. "How about understand people as individuals?"
In response to Reply # 45


          


An invented norm can become a practical reality. Gender is not the only place where that happens.

But I deal with college students every day. And this generation is gleefully breaking those norms every day. Who knows how long that holds up, but I deal with people who honestly, sincerely live outside those gender lines with no sense of shame or loss at all.

  

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Walleye
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71. "Fuck yeah"
In response to Reply # 51


          

>And this generation is gleefully breaking those norms every day.

This was fun to read.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 12:26 PM

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72. "Then again, they're all Bernie supporters."
In response to Reply # 71


          


So I can't take them TOO seriously.

  

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Walleye
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75. "Ha, fair enough"
In response to Reply # 72


          

My favorite thing about them is that they don't care if I take them seriously. It's their world. I'm just slowly decaying in it.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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spirit
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410. "Bernie got the lion’s share of the 2016 youth primary Dem vote "
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

And if you’re in a college setting, Bernie is a key proponent of things that directly affect college students, like student loan debt forgiveness.

Who should they be politically supporting? Polls of young Americans on any given issue line up nicely with Bernie’s longtime positions.

What an odd thing to say.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue May-07-19 12:45 PM

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118. "Wow. That was the dumbest possible response."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

180 degrees backward.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Thu May-09-19 04:27 PM

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152. "Professor Frink, everyone."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

I can tell that as an educator I saw a clear line between the women I had who participated in sports and the ones who didn't (I can't comment on men because my classes were overwhelmingly female). I see it also in women I've worked with and dated. You absolutely learn how to compete, deal with adversity, work as a team and focus on the task at hand from sports. I can tell you that from my personal experience as well. I also played in the band (I was a symphonic band percussionist and played in different popular music bands outside of school), I was a pretty good student (total out of pocket for undergrad/grad was 12K in five years), I traveled extensively and know multiple languages. They all have their own unique benefits and some shared ones, but I don't think anything better prepared me for society than sports and the things I mentioned there came through in a way that they absolutely did not in any of those other activities.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu May-09-19 06:52 PM

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156. "Yeah, I'm rolling my eyes at basically that whole stream of cliches."
In response to Reply # 152


          


I'm an educator too, and my vague impressions don't correspond AT ALL with yours. Some of the athletes I've known have been very curious and interested in the world. Many more (like a lot of students generally), seem more interested in "getting by" in the class than in actually understanding the ideas. A lot of people don't know what a class is for if it's not for a grade. People who care about winning and losing are especially prone to this.

And while everyone's mentioning teamwork (which is obviously fostered in team sports, though it can be in other settings as well), it comes at a cost to independence and creativity, which are arguably more valuable.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Fri May-10-19 02:06 PM

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160. "Not sure where this animosity came from"
In response to Reply # 156
Fri May-10-19 02:07 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

I'm not talking about some D1 football player who wouldn't be in college if not for sports and who is totally focused on sports. It's unreasonable to expect that person to give two shits and if you can't see that then I've vastly overestimated you for years here. But I suspect you do get it.

I'm talking about people who are studious and also compete(d) in sports. With a similar level of enthusiasm/application between the athlete and the non-athlete, I found the former to be better equipped to deal with surprises, adapt, work with other people and generally go beyond the sheltered, unrealistic setting of the American school system.

I also don't agree that sports inhibit creativity. Creativity, improvisation, reaction and adaptation are all fundamental parts of athletics. Defining your own style is also part of it, but doing so in a way that conscious of other people and how it meshes with them. It's a mixture of individualism and collectivism, the same sort of anthropomorphic dynamic we've seen in society since the earliest written accounts of humanity.

In short I think you're being super dismissive here, though that was pretty evident with your "join the band" comments.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Mon May-06-19 10:33 AM

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32. "It's enjoyable to play competitive sports"
In response to Reply # 8


          

That doesn't seem pointless.

_______________________________________

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 10:47 AM

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43. "That is a valid point."
In response to Reply # 32


          


There's the nuance that tomjohn was looking for me to admit to, above.

Then again, there are a lot of destructive things that are enjoyable. Should we let our kids play tackle football? Or box? There was a time when that was perfectly normal, and I'm sure it's a lot of fun for a lot of the kids. But it's not good for them.

But this isn't about what's good and what's bad.

My point about it being silly, and how that relates to this discussion, is the role of biochemistry. If biochemistry really gives people such a strong advantage (as I think one can validly argue here, and as we've seen in numerous doping scandals over the years), then is it really people who are competing, or is it biochemistries that are competing? And if it's biochemistries, why should anyone care?

  

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tomjohn29
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Mon May-06-19 11:03 AM

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50. "RE: That is a valid point."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>
>There's the nuance that tomjohn was looking for me to admit
>to, above.
>
>Then again, there are a lot of destructive things that are
>enjoyable. Should we let our kids play tackle football? Or
>box? There was a time when that was perfectly normal, and I'm
>sure it's a lot of fun for a lot of the kids. But it's not
>good for them.

Did both...continue to box
also got a undergrad and masters in Engineering and a law degree
it was great for me
but I also was taught that what I "do" is not who I am


>But this isn't about what's good and what's bad.
>
>My point about it being silly, and how that relates to this
>discussion, is the role of biochemistry. If biochemistry
>really gives people such a strong advantage (as I think one
>can validly argue here, and as we've seen in numerous doping
>scandals over the years), then is it really people who are
>competing, or is it biochemistries that are competing? And if
>it's biochemistries, why should anyone care?

True
like I said I knew there was more nuance
shit you see I got Case to recant something down below
sorry I'm a sucker for debates and discussions from everywhere
thanks for breaking it down further
I miss that on these boards

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 12:32 PM

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74. "*nods*"
In response to Reply # 50


          


>>My point about it being silly, and how that relates to this
>>discussion, is the role of biochemistry. If biochemistry
>>really gives people such a strong advantage (as I think one
>>can validly argue here, and as we've seen in numerous doping
>>scandals over the years), then is it really people who are
>>competing, or is it biochemistries that are competing? And
>if
>>it's biochemistries, why should anyone care?
>
>True
>like I said I knew there was more nuance
>shit you see I got Case to recant something down below
>sorry I'm a sucker for debates and discussions from
>everywhere
>thanks for breaking it down further
>I miss that on these boards

Yeah, and I'll admit that while I meant all that I said, I was playing up the shock value. You and I disagree on some aspects of this, and that's fine.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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52. "I think there's is a case to be made on both sides"
In response to Reply # 43
Mon May-06-19 11:11 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

For example, should Usain Bolt been allowed to compete given that he was so physically gifted? Yes he put in a lot of hard work (a lot less than other athletes from what I've read). But his biochemistry is what really sets him apart from the competition.

Similarly, what separates a woman runner and a transwoman runner? Biochemistry.

Why was the gap between Bolt and his competition okay, but not in the second case?

I'd argue that it is because it is still competitive in the Bolt case. It is rare to see someone so physically gifted that the competition stands no chance.

But that's not the situation in the case of trans athletes. It is not by chance that records are broken quite frequently in these competitions. The gap in physical abilities is so large that you don't have to even be elite in your abilities to win, let alone to dominate

_______________________________________

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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79. "The slope has slipped though"
In response to Reply # 52


          

They are purposely handicapping Caster Semenya along these lines

https://www.livescience.com/65412-caster-semenya-testosterone-gender-segregation.html

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12482 posts
Mon May-06-19 10:58 AM

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46. "Also, to the extent this is about college admissions or scholarships,"
In response to Reply # 8


          


I would say with far more seriousness that sports should have NEVER been a part of college admissions or scholarships in the first place.

If you wanna play, play. But that's not what you're there to do when you're in college.

I mean, yeah, the college admissions system is complicated and completely fucked up. But supplementing criteria that arguably aren't completely correlated with academic ability or preparedness, with other criteria that have absolutely no plausible correlation with academic ability or preparedness, never made any sense.

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Mon May-06-19 11:52 AM

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61. "they're a good outlet. Hope you mean the money part "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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9. "No. I didn’t read the article either"
In response to Reply # 0


          

My issue with this is a transgendered wrestling against girls is just wrong.

Can’t have some transgendered windmilling in the WNBA.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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17. "I agree with you on the topic, but you could post real news sources"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Case_One
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Mon May-06-19 10:17 AM

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23. "So the news is not valid because you don't know the source"
In response to Reply # 17
Mon May-06-19 10:17 AM by Case_One

          

christianheadlines.com is a valid peer-reviewed news source.

ChristianHeadlines.com is a member of the Salem Web Network of sites including:
Bible Study ToolsChristianity.com Crosscards.com Crosswalk.com GodTube.com Jesus.org Christian Ministry VideoChristian Ministry RadioReligion TodayAdvertise with UsContact Us
Copyright © 2019, ChristianHeadlines.com. All rights reserved. Article Images Copyright © JupiterImages Corporation.
.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12118 posts
Mon May-06-19 10:24 AM

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26. "LMAOOOOOOOO... "
In response to Reply # 23


          

>christianheadlines.com is a valid peer-reviewed news source.

Do you even know what peer-reviewed means?! I'm legit crying.

  

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Case_One
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27. "SMH. Thanks for posting."
In response to Reply # 26


          


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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tomjohn29
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Mon May-06-19 10:29 AM

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29. "so is that a yes or no to knowing what peer review means?"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

because i dont see that on that website

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

  

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Case_One
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47. "You're right. It's not and you won't find that on most news sites"
In response to Reply # 29


          

>because i dont see that on that website.

Great Point. I'll take note of that fact and just call the new site reputable. The overreach on my part was using the term peer-reviewed for the news site.

Fair enough. Point taken. Salem Web Network is a reputable organization with multiple media outlets (broadcasting and print and web).





.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12118 posts
Mon May-06-19 11:21 AM

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54. "I don't think you know what 'reputable' means either. "
In response to Reply # 47


          


>
>Fair enough. Point taken. Salem Web Network is a reputable
>organization with multiple media outlets (broadcasting and
>print and web).
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>.

  

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Case_One
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Mon May-06-19 11:43 AM

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58. "Tell me why Salem Web Network is not a reputable organization?"
In response to Reply # 54


          

.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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70. "I'm sure it's reputable to people who believe in the message/mission."
In response to Reply # 58


          

But calling a news org 'reputable' typically starts with the absence of bias. That can't legitimately be claimed by Salem or any of its properties.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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85. "Because they gave Michelle Malkin a show. "
In response to Reply # 58


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Case_One
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103. "Really... LOL I guess. "
In response to Reply # 85


          


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
22487 posts
Mon May-06-19 10:32 AM

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31. "Hahahaha"
In response to Reply # 26


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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86. "It's no where near objective. And you post it asking for an objective"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

discussion on the matter.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Case_One
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101. "MSNBC is not objective either. They have a serious Pro Dem Agenda. "
In response to Reply # 86


          


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
43384 posts
Tue May-07-19 12:41 PM

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117. "Exactly! On that note, WHATABOUT...."
In response to Reply # 101


  

          


  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13581 posts
Thu May-16-19 12:30 AM

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166. "That said, why do you agree with Case on the subject?"
In response to Reply # 86


          

Instead of talking about why you agree, you're taking the opportunity to join the shame train against him rather than discussing the topic.
That's a real coward move on your part. Easier to join the cool kids majority of okp trashing him rather than have the courage to stand on yours and have them trashing you too huh?

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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naame
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119. "^^^^"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          


America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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Brownsugar
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Mon May-06-19 10:20 AM

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24. "Nope, it's just not fair..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Males are stronger than females from birth...


I LUV U 2!!!

  

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Cocobrotha2
Charter member
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Mon May-06-19 10:28 AM

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28. "Yes if they're taking the necessary hormones for re-assignment"
In response to Reply # 0


          

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15686 posts
Mon May-06-19 10:36 AM

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35. "Hormones can't reverse 17 years of development"
In response to Reply # 28


          

_______________________________________

  

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Cocobrotha2
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39. "They can and they do"
In response to Reply # 35


          

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
73788 posts
Mon May-06-19 10:45 AM

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41. "Nah"
In response to Reply # 39


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
43165 posts
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370. "please tell me how hormones reverse bone density?"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
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371. "please tell me how hormones reverse bone density?"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
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372. "please tell me how hormones reverse bone density?"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Y'all be letting your politics trump your logic.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
3757 posts
Mon May-06-19 10:35 AM

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34. "Of All things to be concerned about?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You really think folks are undergoing dramatic physical changes so they could be the best weightlifter in the tri-county area? These are folks undergoing dramatic changes who are just trying to keep their lives as normal as possible. What it calls for from us is a little perspective. Unless some athlete is being harmed (I would take a close look at combat sports), then let people live.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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40. "It’s sports.. so it’s something people worry about in Americ"
In response to Reply # 34


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 11:39 AM

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57. "Yes, but that doesn't mean it's right"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

I'm for having rules for safety but whenever we have these conversations about fairness and trans athletes they always ignore two factors:

1) There are as kids who are female to male transitioning folks who are also trying to play sports (there's no advantage there); and

2) The point of these sports are to build character and stuff right? It's not like the trans athletes are taking pro spots or even college scholarships. They're just kids, like all of our kids, trying to live as normal a life as possible.

and again, this happens in such a miniscule number of cases that it's shocking to me when people act like this is a tide change.

  

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Hitokiri
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145. "^^"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 11:21 AM

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55. "The concern is for young women to be able to compete in a safe, fun..."
In response to Reply # 34


          

...environment. It's neither safe nor fun for them to allow women-with-mens-bodies to compete in their leagues.

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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56. "This is a non-issue that occurs so rarely that"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

it's odd that we're even having this conversation. We need to be up front about the fact that this issue has a disproportionate role in the national dialogue because some people who just aren't comfortable with Trans folks generally. It's not a coincidence that the sources he sites are all Christian blogs.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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90. "I agree that it's a pretty small issue. And it's 100% true..."
In response to Reply # 56
Mon May-06-19 05:52 PM by flipnile

          

...that a religious-based website has a strong bias and agenda.

Aside from that, it just doesn't seem fair to women, and takes away one of their 100% female spaces (the athletic field/court/rink/etc.)

Not really a subject that comes up much, but one of the main reasons I thought about it was having a few young women in my family in college right now, and seeing this news story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6sziVLqtO8

The kids seem mostly cool with it, but then again she's 51. If she was 21 and actually good then they might feel differently. I don't know. My fear is men finding a way to abuse this system.

Personally, I think trans athletes (male-to-female) could just play in the mens/boys league.

  

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Hitokiri
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146. "^^"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12482 posts
Mon May-06-19 11:57 AM

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63. "Yeah, it's an invented 'issue.'"
In response to Reply # 34


          


Invented entirely for political reasons that have nothing at all to do with sports.

  

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Case_One
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Mon May-06-19 12:03 PM

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65. "What are the Political reasons? "
In response to Reply # 63


          

>
>Invented entirely for political reasons that have nothing at
>all to do with sports.
>

What are the hidden reasons?


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12482 posts
Mon May-06-19 12:06 PM

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66. "Really?"
In response to Reply # 65


          


To keep conservative evangelicals afraid of what will happen if the godless sissy libs take over.

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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Mon May-06-19 12:08 PM

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68. "It plays into people's worse fears about a "gay agenda""
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

and allows conservatives to argue that we've all lost our way. That it's a sign of how immoral (and illogical) we have been. It's pretty standard culture wars stuff.

  

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Mynoriti
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69. "they're not hidden lol"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

  

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liveguy
Member since Jan 01st 2004
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Mon May-06-19 11:01 AM

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49. "No."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

We see through all that boo boo like it's ghost shit... (c) Quelle Chris

| http://liveguy.bandcamp.com |
| www.soundcloud.com/liveguy |
| www.twitter.com/liveguy |
| www.instagram.com/theREALliveguy |
| XBOX ONE GT: theREALliveguy |

  

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Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Mon May-06-19 11:51 AM

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60. "maybe in balanced male female teams. 1 on 1 though hell no"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon May-06-19 12:02 PM

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64. "No, but fuck these obvious agenda filled articles all the same"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Case_One
Charter member
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Mon May-06-19 12:30 PM

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73. "What's the agenda?"
In response to Reply # 64


          


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Mynoriti
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76. "here's a snapshot of the world demorcatcs/liberals want for us"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

  

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Case_One
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77. "I'm not clicking that. I'm at work."
In response to Reply # 76


          


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Mynoriti
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78. "there's nothing to click lol"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

i was saying that's what the article was saying

link/sig is just my tumblr i haven't touched in years lol

  

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Teknontheou
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67. "In the interest of legal fairness, yes."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon May-06-19 12:07 PM by Teknontheou

  

          

But, most victories and records those athletes win will be looked at askance by alot of people, like a virtual asterisk (or maybe an actual one, at some point).

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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80. "As a person who has competed professionally I'll say what I've always sa..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Just make steroids legal... People are gonna do the shit anyway and if you just equally enhance the field them boom

issues done

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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Rjcc
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81. "CHRISTIANHEADLINES DOT COM"
In response to Reply # 0


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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82. "LOL. Yep."
In response to Reply # 81


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Case_One
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83. "So, what competitive sports do they allow you to compete in?"
In response to Reply # 81


          

Do tell.


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Rjcc
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84. "the one where I pretend to be a christian"
In response to Reply # 83


          

to prey on women under the guise of spiritual discussions.

if I practice hard maybe I'll go pro like you.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Case_One
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87. "None. Shame on them"
In response to Reply # 84


          




.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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88. "Except for combat sports I don't care one way or another about trans-lad..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Competing in women's sports.

If I saw a Translady beating the brakes off a Cis lady in boxing or MMA I'd feel kinda awkward

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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kayru99
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89. "nope."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Case_One
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92. "If you believe that trans athletes shouldn't complete in combat sports -..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

then you are by default acknowledging the physical advantage in the realm of competitive sports that atheists who are born male will have over those who are born female.

Anything else is just arguing for the sake of arguing.


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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95. "Not at all"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

you can acknowledge that there's a physical disparity and still believe that unless someone's safety is involved, the idea of being second best at field hockey isn't enough to justify treating someone like a second class citizen.

  

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Case_One
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102. "Yes, all the way. "
In response to Reply # 95


          

No one is treating anyone as a second class citizen.


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Original Juice
Member since Oct 03rd 2007
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381. "RE: If you believe that trans athletes shouldn't complete in combat spor..."
In response to Reply # 92


          

>then you are by default acknowledging the physical advantage
>in the realm of competitive sports that atheists who are born
>male will have over those who are born female.


What do their religious beliefs have to do with anything???

  

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spirit
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411. "RE: If you believe that trans athletes shouldn't complete in combat spor..."
In response to Reply # 92
Sat Mar-19-22 09:58 PM by spirit

  

          

>then you are by default acknowledging the physical advantage
>in the realm of competitive sports that atheists who are born
>male will have over those who are born female.

“Shouldn’t complete in combat sports”

“Atheists who are born male.”

Typos are hilarious.

But also, the whole premise of separating sports by gender is undergirded with the idea that women and men have different levels of athletic ability, in a generalized sense.

Maybe we should create new sports that are entirely gender neutral from a competitive perspective? Some sports seem like they could be mixed gender, like auto racing.

This is an odd conversation though, because it seems like the number of times when a trans woman will be competing in any women’s sport will be an outlier occurrence for some time.

As a side note, are there any trans men athletes of note in men’s sports?

  

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shygurl
Member since Oct 08th 2002
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93. "Absolutely."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Some may argue that they'll have advantage...so what? People have advantages in all kinds of ways. People from richer countries have the advantage of better facilities, better coaches, better access to nutritional information. Taller people have an advantage of height over shorter people. Einstein had more neurons in his brain than your average brain, should he be excluded from applying for research grants cause he was smarter than other scientists?

You speak about lessons, but this is an excellent lesson for any young person. Captain Picard said "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." You feel slighted because somebody has an alleged advantage over you? What's your response? You bitch and moan and cry and throw a fit? Or do you work harder? Stay in the gym longer, eat better? You can whine that the world is changing in ways you don't like, or you can accept that change, stop fucking crying, and work on improving yourself.

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
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94. "I thought they debunked the Einstein brain having more neurons"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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96. "The NCAA has 26-28 yr olds competing against 18 yr olds"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Mormans who have done missions and athletes who go juco and redshirt are often much older than their competitors. The kid who won the 100m last year was in his mid 20's. He's clearly in his athletic prime whereas others are just getting done with puberty. Should they be banned? It's an unfair athletic advantage.

  

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legsdiamond
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97. "Yeah, that’s not the same thing"
In response to Reply # 96


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Bluebear
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98. "It's not, but similar enough"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

IF your concerns are competitive fairness

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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100. "How many times have we heard a college adult"
In response to Reply # 98


          

beasting on the field, court or track because he was 26?

You don’t because there isn’t a legit advantage.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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99. "lol. Are middle age Mormons dominating collegiate athletics?"
In response to Reply # 96
Tue May-07-19 09:58 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

And Cameron Burrell (the 23yr old college senior you reference) didn't even dominate the NCAA. He won the title, but the race was close. And he lost many times throughout the season.

Not good examples you are putting out. Nothing in those cases affect competitive fairness

_______________________________________

  

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Bluebear
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104. "So are you ok with trans folks competing if they're not dominating?"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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105. "Yeah"
In response to Reply # 104


          

If the physical advantages resulting from transitions don't directly affect the competitive balance of the sport, I'm all for it. And I think there are some sports where that criteria fits.

I don't think it should be a case by case basis though. Not like: person A is trans but she's pretty slow so we'll let her run with the girls. There should be a blanket policy.

_______________________________________

  

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Walleye
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106. "BYU XC thrives on this loophole"
In response to Reply # 99


          

Casey Clinger was one of the best distance runners in the nation when he was a senior in highschool, continued running well in XC at BYU (I think he was an All-American at Nats in 2017) and is now finishing his first year of a two year mission in Japan. When he returns, he'll be a 22 year old sophomore with three years of eligibility. And he's only really unique in that program because of his level of success prior to college (4:02 mile, 8:44 3200m). He would have been a huge recruiting get for any distance oriented program, but they have a bunch of runners who follow pretty much the same plan where you can retain eligibility for a mission. Between that and the usual redshirt allowance, you're looking at a team that fields a pretty substantial number of 25 year olds every single year.

I don't have a problem with this, by the way. But I also think it's a bigger competitive advantage than trans athletes have, and also I suspect it's substantially more common.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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107. "Where's the evidence? I don't see old BYU athletes being especially good..."
In response to Reply # 106
Tue May-07-19 10:51 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

Just looking at the past few years of NCAA championship results

_______________________________________

  

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Walleye
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109. "Fair - we may have to wait on current classes"
In response to Reply # 107


          

Below is their roster. Finding out athlete ages is a pretty big pain in the ass, but you can see a lot of the details in the "roster year" section, where you have a bunch of guys with 2-3 gaps in their time being rostered. If I recall correctly, NCAA only does multi-year eligibility allowances with military service and missionary trips and at BYU it's pretty much exclusively the latter.

Their 2018 team finished third, but you're right that there aren't a lot of those older guys on that varsity squad. The names I know are up there in BYU scorers are Clinger, Linkletter, and McMillan. Out of those, McMillan is the only one with the telltale two year gap, which should make him 23+ right now. That's not substantially older than your average NCAA athlete, but he should also have at least two years more eligiblity left, even if he's listed as a senior.

But again, you're right as to the current team. They apparently had an excellent 2016-2017 recruiting class (highlighted by Clinger but it was apparently also deep too - I'm just at the edge of my depth in NCAA XC fanship) and the excellent 2018 XC team was the result of those classes. If those guys all run four consecutive years, then it's a normal college cross country team. If they start taking two years off (like Clinger is now) and then return at ages 23-25, that's kind of weird.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Bluebear
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111. "Runner up the last 2 years is pretty good"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

And they lost the NAU, a school with several athletes substantially into their 20s.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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113. "I'm looking at the competitiveness of the individual athletes"
In response to Reply # 111


          

Some BYU folks may be good, but they aren't beating everyone handedly in every race. They lose races... frequently.

It's hard to argue that age causes the sport to be uncompetitive when the people you point to as having a distinct advantage are right there in the middle of the pack. I have no problem putting an age cap on NCAA sports, but I don't think it would make any difference.

_______________________________________

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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108. "If there was a legit advantage you would see more athletes"
In response to Reply # 106


          

waiting to enter college so they could dominate their sports.

There is a reason this isn’t happen though.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Bluebear
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110. "Most athletes aren't making money in the ncaa"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

There's unquestionably an advantage but for most athletes if you're good enough to go pro you do so as soon as possible, and if you're not good enough to go pro, being ncaa champ is usually not a good enough reason to delay your degree long enough. But I don't think anyone is denying that athletic primes is in the mid 20s.

  

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Walleye
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112. "The reason is that it's against NCAA (DI) rules"
In response to Reply # 108


          

My understanding is that your eligibility starts when you start classes at an NCAA DI institution *or* one year after your graduation even if you don't. From either of those start points, you get four years except for:

-redshirt
-mission
-military service

This is related to my beef with the article, that it exploits the apparently widescale perception that a bunch of conservative chuds in Florida are the first people to think of this issue. The NCAA is a deeply dumb and exploitative institution, but basically everything they do - good or bad - is to preserve the idea of fairness so they're actually pretty careful about trying to close loopholes that can lead to competitive advantages while balancing them out with people's real lives. Trans athletes have real, specific requirements to participate at NCAA institutions that are meant to control any possible biological advantage. The same is true of age.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue May-07-19 11:43 AM

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115. "But you can also play minor league baseball"
In response to Reply # 112


          

or train for 3 years and then start college and play football or basketball for 4 years.

People rarely do that because the risk is far greater than the reward of a competitive advantage.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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121. "Real question, how many trans female athletes have you seen"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

who wish to compete as women? I can think of one (Fallon Fox) and she was nowhere near dominant. If that's the case then isn't this whole thing moot?

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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123. "Admittedly I know of only one. But that shouldn't matter"
In response to Reply # 121


          

I mean, I wouldn't put it as a priority on my public policy checklist. It wouldn't even rank as an afterthought.
But if questioned on the issue, my opinion is it's not right or fair.

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2019/02/24/connecticut-runners-part-of-debate-over-transgender-athletes

_______________________________________

  

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Bluebear
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135. "but isn't your argument about BYU that it doesn't matter"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

because it doesn't make much of a difference? or am I conflating?

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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167. "Let me make it simple. Most sports are segmented by sex for a reason"
In response to Reply # 135


          

That reason is based on the typical physical differences between the sexes (height, weight, strength, speed, etc).
Many sports are also segmented by age group for the exact same reasons.
The idea behind segmenting across sex and age is to maintain a level of competitive balance and fairness. Yes, there may be some exceptional athletes that show up from time to time. But there won't be a group that is systematically going to have a physical advantage.

I hope we can agree on these points.


I think many male to female trans have distinct physical advantages over their peer cis women that don't come about naturally. Especially if they developed as a male through their teenage years. This gives them a systematic advantage over their peers which is not fair.

For the BYU example, the age group for NCAA is typically like 18-23. Folks in that range are for the most part developed already. So I don't think the 25-26 year old Mormon is going to throw off the competitive balance much here. But if there is evidence of it, I would be willing to swing the other way and say those exemptions should not be granted.

_______________________________________

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Thu May-16-19 09:47 AM

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169. "Can you be specific about these advantages?"
In response to Reply # 167


          


>
>I think many male to female trans have distinct physical
>advantages over their peer cis women that don't come about
>naturally. Especially if they developed as a male through
>their teenage years. This gives them a systematic advantage
>over their peers which is not fair.

From my understanding, the primary LASTING difference is bone size. If someone goes through puberty as a boy, they're likely going to have longer bones... so taller with longer limbs, on average.

But the density of those bones would change with hormone therapy. So would body fat composition, muscle size and strength... negating the advantage of going through puberty as a male for many sports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/do-transgender-athletes-have-an-unfair-advantage-at-the-olympics/2016/08/05/08169676-5b50-11e6-9aee-8075993d73a2_story.html?utm_term=.96396eb19971


<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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Rjcc
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229. "we act like athletes haven't been coming back from missions"
In response to Reply # 106


          

and stomping their teenaged competition then flaming out in the pros

for literally decades


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Wed Jun-23-21 03:31 PM

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237. "lol. Yes, those old Mormons dominating collegiate athletics lol"
In response to Reply # 229


          

_______________________________________

  

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Walleye
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302. "So, it's not an issue if it's not incredibly common?"
In response to Reply # 237


          

Good to hear. That means we're done talking about this obvious reactionary bait. If 25 year old Mormons dominating, say, college cross country* is not of sufficient interest to make this an issue - then I assume the one transgender DII 400m hurdler is similarly not an issue.

So why throw the chuds this bait? There is no threat to women's sports that's actually happening. Just a bunch of assholes who are desperately unable to mind their own business.

*here's BYU's roster. see all the guys who started their college career in 2017 who are listed as sophomores and juniors?


https://byucougars.com/roster/m-cross-country/2020-2021

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Thu Jul-01-21 01:05 PM

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303. "What is the difference between a 23 year old runner and a 25 year old?"
In response to Reply # 302


          

Those are the ages of a plain old senior, and a missionary redshirted senior.
There is not much of a difference competitively. So it's not an issue (to me, it is a big issue to some) because it's uncommon. It's a non-issue because it doesn't matter.

BYU's runners are good because they are good, not because of their age.

Look at their top two runners this year:
Connor Mantz: Elite in HS. Placed 10th at NCAAs as a 21yr old (1st place most recently).
Casey Clinger: Elite in HS (4:02 mile in HS). Placed 24th at NCAAs as an 18 year old freshman (13th place most recently).

Those extra two years didn't give them an extra turbo boost. They were already at the top of the sport.


Contrast that with the hurdler you mentioned. Who went from a bottom of the pack runner in the men's division to a national champion in the women's.

_______________________________________

  

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Rjcc
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309. "don't post in sports anymore"
In response to Reply # 303


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
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Tue May-07-19 11:43 AM

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114. "what happens if "a guy" is impotent"
In response to Reply # 0


          

therefore can't help to naturally produce a kid... is he not (100%) man
because he is unable to impregnate naturally? if the percentage is less
than that (100%) what is to be said about that percentage? who is
the final say-so in that or is it merely an opinion? serious questions.

  

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Mynoriti
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122. "https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThirstyTintedBrahmancow-small.gif"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThirstyTintedBrahmancow-small.gif

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue May-07-19 04:00 PM

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124. "Nothing happens"
In response to Reply # 114


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
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Tue May-07-19 04:34 PM

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128. "so it doesn't affect anything..."
In response to Reply # 124


          

...therefore it should not matter?

  

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Case_One
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130. "Are you equating impotence with genetic composition? "
In response to Reply # 114


          


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
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Tue May-07-19 05:06 PM

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131. "i guess, what is the composition of a man? "
In response to Reply # 130


          

take this for example (male reproductive system):
https://tinyurl.com/yycqt7u8

what happens if there's damage to the erectile tissue, not enough, or none? is
he still considered to be a man? if so, why? who is the final say-so or authority on
who/what someone is? or is it just an opinion?

  

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squeeg
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157. "A miserable little pile of secrets."
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Thu May-09-19 12:28 PM

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138. "If a woman is sterile, does that make her an impotent man?"
In response to Reply # 114


          

Does her womanhood get taken away because she can't have kids naturally?

  

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Crash Bandacoot
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Thu May-09-19 12:51 PM

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141. "i don't know, should it? "
In response to Reply # 138
Thu May-09-19 12:55 PM by Crash Bandacoot

          

seems like the answer depends on who you ask. it doesn't just boil down
to physical anatomy either. classifications/degreeing levels of what a
prototypical man or woman truly is, does exist. ie. alpha, beta,
personality, culture, caste, religion, etc.

  

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atruhead
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Tue May-07-19 12:32 PM

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116. "we get it already, you wish to delegitimize transgender life"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

there's no need to talk around it posting articles about athletic competition

  

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Case_One
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120. "Dude, you need a mentor and a strong role model. "
In response to Reply # 116


          


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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atruhead
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Tue May-07-19 04:15 PM

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125. "way to deflect from my point that we both know is the case"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

  

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Case_One
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Tue May-07-19 04:41 PM

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129. "You love flossing these wild accusations. "
In response to Reply # 125


          

There are plenty of people have real good discussions about the topic and you come in here with the nonsense.


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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atruhead
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133. ""accusations" like this is a one off incident"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

like you don't have a history of fanning flames about LGBT issues

  

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Case_One
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Wed May-08-19 08:42 AM

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134. "Dude, I'm free to talk about any subject I want"
In response to Reply # 133


          

I talk about Entertainment, Politics, Money, Stocks, Church, Technology, Sports, Faith, Theology, Human Rights, and Issue related to any topic to include YOU NAME IT. You're the one that stays focused on my post when I discuss Homosexuality issues aka LGBTQA+... Maybe it's your own inner issues playa. But what you can't do is makeup crap about me just to feel good about your own life.


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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atruhead
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Thu May-09-19 12:23 PM

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137. "you figured it out. Im bisexual, gay or transitioning into a woman"
In response to Reply # 134
Thu May-09-19 12:23 PM by atruhead

  

          

You're the one
>that stays focused on my post when I discuss Homosexuality
>issues aka LGBTQA+... Maybe it's your own inner issues playa.
>But what you can't do is makeup crap about me just to feel
>good about your own life.

  

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Case_One
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Thu May-09-19 02:13 PM

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142. "That's on you. "
In response to Reply # 137


          

Do Wath'ca Like

.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu May-09-19 03:20 PM

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147. "."
In response to Reply # 142
Thu May-09-19 03:21 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

.

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
30565 posts
Wed May-15-19 11:26 PM

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164. "RE: Dude, you need a mentor and a strong role model. "
In response to Reply # 120


          

Way too late for that, he ain't even disagree though which is the sad part.


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

  

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Case_One
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126. "An Article Discussing the Impact of Transgender Boys In Female Sport "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue May-07-19 04:21 PM by Case_One

          

There are two sides to be heard, but we must also remember that these are still just kids and remember that these circumstances are complicated.



8th Place: A High School Girl’s Life After Transgender Students Join Her Sport

Kelsey Bolar / @kelseybolar / May 06, 2019 /

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/05/06/8th-place-high-school-girls-speak-out-on-getting-beat-by-biological-boys/?fbclid=IwAR0Nm1wlY1W9VHQIbYNft_h4Fl7gHGl-S8dY0dHfBolR8BWkR0AF413owxU

When two high school athletes who were born male but identify as female took first and second place at Connecticut’s girls indoor track championship this year, it wasn’t just a local news story.

To some, it was a story of triumph and courage. The winner, a junior from Bloomfield High School, set a girls state indoor record of 6.95 seconds in the 55-meter dash, and went on to win the New England titles in both the 55-meter dash and the 300-meter dash.

To others, it was a story of shock and disappointment: Is this the end of women’s sports?

To Selina Soule, a 16-year-old runner from Glastonbury, it was personal.

The liberal Left continue to push their radical agenda against American values. The good news is there is a solution. Find out more >>

A junior, Selina missed qualifying for the 55-meter in the New England regionals by two spots. Two spots, she said, that were taken by biological boys.

Had the boys who identify as girls not been allowed to compete, Selina would have placed sixth, qualifying to run the 55 in front of college coaches at the New England regionals.

Instead, she placed eighth, watching the 55 from the sidelines after qualifying in only the long jump, an event in which the transgender athletes didn’t compete.

“It’s very frustrating and heartbreaking when us girls are at the start of the race and we already know that these athletes are going to come out and win no matter how hard you try,” Selina told The Daily Signal. “They took away the spots of deserving girls, athletes … me being included.”F

While the debate over transgender athletes and fairness is complex, the situation in Connecticut has brought forth another complicating layer: Plenty of parents and high school girls appear to object to the participation of biological boys in girls sports, but fearing public bullying and backlash, they’re not speaking out.

Publicly, at least.

The stakes of remaining silent are high: Policies are being formed in real time at the local, state, and federal levels regarding transgender individuals, student athletes, and sports.

Most prominently, on March 13, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi introduced HR 5, the Equality Act, a bill that would add “sexual orientation” and “gender identity” as protected classes under federal civil rights law.

The legislation would create a civil right for male athletes to self-identify as females at any time, critics say, without any evidence of physical changes to their bodies.

When the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference, or CIAC, said biological boys who identify as girls can compete as girls in sports, most track athletes remained mum.

Connecticut is one of 17 states that allow transgender high school athletes to compete without restrictions, according to Transathlete.com, a website that tracks state policies in high school sports across the country.

Encouraged by her mother, Bianca Stanescu, who has been in the forefront in challenging the state policy, Selina is one of the few students, if not the only one, giving a voice to countless others who appear to feel the same way.

“Everyone is afraid of retaliation from the media, from the kids around their school, from other athletes, coaches, schools, administrators,” Selina explained. “They don’t want to drag attention to themselves, and they don’t want to be seen as a target for potential bullying and threats.”

In a visit to the Nutmeg State, The Daily Signal spoke with four other track athletes from two high schools in Connecticut. Echoing Selina’s sentiments, they asked to remain anonymous.

“I think it’s a very important thing for people to really understand where we’re coming from, instead of just immediately going to, ‘We’re transphobic,’” one said. “Just the way that our society is built, it snaps on people so quickly.”

“We live in such a cruel world, and society is just so hard to figure out sometimes,” another girl told The Daily Signal. “You never know what the reaction is going to be. It’s so hard because you want your voice to be heard … but, how can you know what to say that will affect things positively, instead of people twisting what you’re saying and turning it against you?”

‘An Equality Issue’

The girls’ parents, too, expressed a high level of concern for protecting their daughters’ identities, not even wanting to identify them by high school.

Connecticut is made up of small towns, the parents explained, and given the relatively small number of athletes affected, people can connect the dots.

“There’s really nothing else you can do except get super frustrated and roll your eyes,” the first girl said, “because it’s really hard to even come out and talk in public just because of the way with the far left, and how just immediately you’ll just be shut down.”

“It’s not like we’re saying that we don’t like transgender people,” she added. “It’s just an equality issue where these girls are trying their absolute hardest to try and get those good things on their college resumes, and then it just gets completely taken away from them because there’s a biological male racing against them.”

The athletes say they don’t fear only being bullied or portrayed as a bigot. They also hope to attend college, and are afraid their politically incorrect views could hurt their prospects.

“I personally want a future in athletics in college,” a third girl told The Daily Signal, “but I feel like if there’s a coach that disagrees with my personal opinion, or a board that disagrees with it, then they’ll already have a predisposition with me and then it’ll affect maybe playing time or my ability to get into that college.”

“We have college down the road—I’m scared that that could get impacted,” a fourth girl said. “Sometimes the coaches will just like look at the lists … and if you’re not No. 1 then they won’t choose you.”

“I have heard opinions where coaches are just going to look at your times, and that they don’t really care where you place,” the first girl added. “But college coaches are going to these bigger meets, and when they don’t see you there, they’re not necessarily focusing on you. They’re focusing on the people that are there.”

“It kept Selina from getting to New Englands, where she had the opportunity to be running in front of college coaches, which is just unfair,” she added.

Uncomfortable Opinions

The athletes’ hesitation to speak out publicly begs the question:

How did society get to the point where high school girls now fear their uncomfortable opinions could prevent them from being admitted to the very institutions where uncomfortable opinions are supposed to be explored?

Whatever the answer, few could blame them, given the vitriol on display in today’s public square.

Business Insider removed a writer’s article defending the casting of Scarlett Johansson to play a transgender man in an upcoming film, for example. The publication said the article violated its “editorial standards,” and the writer later quit.

Authorities in Canada allegedly threatened to arrest a father if he refers to his biological daughter as a female in private or in public because she identifies as a boy.

And in schools, The Daily Signal has documented multiple cases of biological girls being forced to share locker rooms or bathrooms with boys, despite their safety concerns and discomfort.

But again and again, those on the “wrong side” of this conversation are too afraid to speak out.

‘Door Is Open for Any Other Sport’

Selina’s mother, Stanescu, told The Daily Signal that she has done “everything that I thought would be possible to help this and just open a conversation” about what’s happened in Connecticut and what could happen should Congress pass the Equality Act.

“The doors have been shut over and over again,” Stanescu said. “People are afraid to speak.”

In addition to potentially instating a nationwide bathroom requirement, health care mandate, and a “preferred pronoun” law based on gender identity, the Equality Act would enshrine in federal law the right of biological boys to compete as girls in all sports.

If the measure passes, Stanescu warned, “women will be completely eradicated from sports.”

What’s happening in Connecticut, she added, will happen across the country—and not just in track and field.

“Yes, it has been affecting track and field in Connecticut, but the door is open there for any sport, and that is something that could become also a safety issue,” Stanescu said. “It’s taking away the opportunity to win for the girls, but in sports that have physical contact, could become a serious safety issue.”

“It could be potentially very dangerous if you have a transgender female that’s competing in basketball, soccer, lacrosse, field hockey because they are so physically superior to females,” her daughter Selina added.

Selina says all this while making clear she supports athletes “being true to themselves.”

“I have friends in school who are transgender and I know when they are struggling to come out or deciding to come out, I was there supporting them,” she said. “And when they were freshly out, I was caring towards them. I was never rude or disrespectful.”

But the situation in sports has “nothing to do with their gender identity and how they feel,” Selina said. “It has to do with what is right and what is fair in athletics.”

Looking forward to her senior year, Selina said she hopes to run track in college. She referred to the long jump event as her “safe haven” where “the results were fair no matter what, because it was girls competing against girls.”

“But now, unfortunately,” she said with a disappointed look on her face, “one of those athletes has started to compete in long jump. So now none of my events are safe.”






.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
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Tue May-07-19 05:07 PM

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132. "Dailysignal? You want to link Sto*mf*ont and #Chan next?"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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Case_One
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Wed May-08-19 10:18 AM

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136. "Does the source negate the truth, facts, and experience of an event?"
In response to Reply # 132


          


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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Thu May-09-19 12:39 PM

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139. "The article contains the line:"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

"The liberal Left continue to push their radical agenda against American values."

  

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Case_One
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Thu May-09-19 02:41 PM

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143. "So. That doesn't negate the facts of the story."
In response to Reply # 139


          


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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Thu May-09-19 04:01 PM

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148. "Are there facts in the story?"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

or is it a series of documented perceptions?

  

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Case_One
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Thu May-09-19 04:50 PM

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153. "What do you depute? "
In response to Reply # 148


          


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
3757 posts
Fri May-10-19 09:34 AM

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159. "There's nothing to dispute. Opinions aren't facts"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

And the piece is a collection of conservative families opinions on something.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu May-09-19 05:29 PM

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154. "LMAOOOOOOO"
In response to Reply # 143


          

OMG.

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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Thu May-09-19 12:43 PM

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140. "Also, you know it's crap because they're talking about track"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

as if track coaches are looking at who won their conference meet in hs. If your times are fast enough and you finished 6 , you'll be recruited, if you win but your times suck, you won't. Track is literally the worst example they could have used.

  

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Invisiblist
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Tue Jun-29-21 10:30 AM

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293. "^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 140


          

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu May-09-19 02:55 PM

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144. "it matters in weeding out who's trying to have an honest conversation"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

vs just pushing a viewpoint. this can ring true for left leaning sources as well.

i think there's an honest debate to be had over this, but we're not gonna get it from people only seem to care about sports and biology when there are political/culture wars implications

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Tue May-07-19 04:28 PM

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127. "💖❤💘💖💗💓💞💞💌❣💔❤🧡💛💚💙💜🖤"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Thu May-09-19 04:15 PM

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149. "Yes, but with caveats/safety measures in place"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

To me this is where gender testing, testosterone levels, etc should come into play. If you were born a male and transitioned to being female, your genetic and hormonal makeup should have to be consistent with those of a woman before competing against in an athletic event. That just ensures fairness to the competitors who were born as women and verifies the accuracy of your claim to your gender. Remember you're no longer pushing some fluid concept of gender, now you're entering a world with a practical reason for having a binary concept of gender and competing within that world, which also goes to great length to level its playing field.

That said, and this may draw ire from some, I absolutely do not think that such standards should be applied to women who were born women, as we are seeing presently with Caster Semenya and as we may see with other female athletes born with some male traits/hormonal levels. To me that seems vastly unfair because it relegates them to an interstitial position where they basically cannot compete in their sport. Furthermore their genetic reality is not of their doing in any way, shape or form. We couldn't say that LeBron James has more testosterone than John Stockton, so now LeBron has to play in some other league or Stockton has to go to the WNBA. It just seems crazy to me that someone born a woman could be subjected to that level of scrutiny and humiliation. It doesn't seem pleasant or totally fair that a transgender person would be, but it seems like a necessary safeguard to protect the fairness and equitable division of competition.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
7723 posts
Thu May-09-19 10:19 PM

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158. "I can't speak on every sport but in combat sports--hard no."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-09-19 10:22 PM by rorschach

  

          

I actually watched that trans fighter fight a woman in MMA and it was awful to watch. Sure, I know that this person has transitioned to a woman but--in that octagon--it sure didn't look that way. The fight was ugly to watch and the trans woman had way more in her favor in height, reach, power, and speed. Sure, someone could argue that the other woman just wasn't a good match for her. But in many sports, mainly combat sports, that mismatch can be deadly.

I don't say that to discriminate against trans people. But there's a definite advantage present and I don't think it's unfair or even mean to acknowledge that.


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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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Wed May-15-19 11:24 PM

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163. "If it gets us a step closer to ending this experiment called America"
In response to Reply # 0


          

& western civilization in general, by all means Juwanna Mann.



Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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Wed May-15-19 11:27 PM

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165. "The liberal media machine is amazing, it literally has"
In response to Reply # 0


          

so-called straight Black men thinking this is cool.



Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu May-16-19 08:54 AM

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168. "IRL or on OKP?"
In response to Reply # 165


          

Cause this place is bizzaro world when it comes to these types of topics.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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Thu May-16-19 04:29 PM

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170. "OKP used to be very IRL, but I guess it's like Twitter is now."
In response to Reply # 168


          


>


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
15291 posts
Thu May-16-19 04:39 PM

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171. "i thought someone upped a 2006 post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Case_One
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Thu May-16-19 04:52 PM

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172. "Surprise! It's 2019... LOL "
In response to Reply # 171


          


.
.

“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

  

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Case_One
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Thu May-30-19 08:03 AM

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173. "UPDATE! Trans woman competed as a man in 2018 wins 19 NCAA track title"
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Transgender woman who last year competed as a man wins NCAA track championship


https://triblive.com/sports/biological-male-wins-ncaa-womens-track-championship/?fbclid=IwAR3at2au2KFYEGh6omRf0sUPmphOUgWwn2UZG4sJWou2DVR8nikJ9u7LYnc

A transgender woman who competed as a man as recently as last year won an NCAA women’s track national championship on Saturday.

Franklin Pierce University senior Cece Telfer beat the eight-woman field in the Division II women’s 400-meter hurdles by more than a second, with a personal collegiate-best time of 57.53.

According to a release by the school, Telfer “took the lead heading down the back stretch and held it the rest of the way, pulling away from the field in the final turn and down the home stretch.”

“It was tough conditions out here with the wind and the heat over the last three days but, as she has over the last six months, CeCe proved herself to be tough enough to handle it,” head coach Zach Emerson said of her performance. “Today was a microcosm of her entire season; she was not going to let anything slow her down. I’ve never met anybody as strong as her mentally in my entire life.”

As recently as January 2018, Telfer had been competing as an athlete for Franklin Pierce men’s team as Craig. Telfer finished eighth in a field of nine in the Men’s 400 meters at the Middlebury Winter Classic in Vermont.

The NCAA allows male athletes to compete as women if they suppress their testosterone levels for a full calendar year. Before that, they compete on mixed teams — with men and women — in the men’s division but not the women’s.

According the NCAA’s Transgender Handbook, “According to medical experts on this issue, the assumption that a transgender woman competing on a women’s team would have a competitive advantage outside the range of performance and competitive advantage or disadvantage that already exists among female athletes is not supported by evidence.”

.
.

“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu May-30-19 08:50 AM

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174. "This is an interesting take"
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

https://www.outsports.com/2019/3/10/18257930/ncaa-cece-telfer-trans-woman-athlete-track-field

The LGBTQ supportive outsports ran an original story with the headline that she doesn't win every competition to make the point that there is no inherent advantage, but then had to update the article when she... won.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu May-30-19 09:03 AM

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176. "She was sandbagging"
In response to Reply # 174


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Case_One
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Thu May-30-19 09:10 AM

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177. "Looks that way. Folks need to be honest w/ themselves"
In response to Reply # 176


          

because there is a clear advantage.
.
.

“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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Thu May-30-19 09:36 AM

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179. "If she ran this time in Division 1 she doesn't make it out of quarterfin..."
In response to Reply # 173


          

I don't know what she ran before transitioning but there isn't some Juwana man style advantage in this instance...

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Thu May-30-19 09:41 AM

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180. "She was mediocre/below average as a man. One of the best as a woman"
In response to Reply # 179
Thu May-30-19 09:43 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/05/what-no-one-is-telling-you-an-athlete-who-ran-ncaa-track-as-a-man-for-3-years-just-won-an-ncaa-womens-title/

Prior to joining the women’s team this season, Telfer was a mediocre DII athlete who never came close to making it to nationals in the men’s category. In 2016 and 2017, Telfer ranked 200th and 390th, respectively, among DII men in the 400 hurdles (Telfer didn’t run outdoor track in 2018 as either a man or woman). Now she’s the national champion in the event simply because she switched her gender (Telfer’s coach told us that even though she competed on the men’s team her first three years, her gender fluidity was present from her freshman year).

The fact that Telfer can change her gender and immediately become a national champion is proof positive as to why women’s sports needs protection. Telfer ran slightly faster in the 400 hurdles competing as a man (57.34) than as a woman (57.53), even though the men’s hurdles are six inches taller than the women’s hurdles. Yet when Telfer ran 57.34 as a man, she didn’t even score at her conference meet — she was just 10th at the Northeast-10 Outdoor Track and Field Championships in 2016. Now she’s the national champion.


_______________________________________

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu May-30-19 10:03 AM

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183. "Shit is wild "
In response to Reply # 180


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu May-30-19 09:44 AM

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181. "Well that’s prolly why it was Div II"
In response to Reply # 179


          

Lmao.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu May-30-19 08:53 AM

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175. "I believe some advocates don't really get the science of it all."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Like this person.

https://twitter.com/DownBrah/status/1133836952137064449


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Walleye
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Thu May-30-19 09:30 AM

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178. "Those folks are talking about Caster Semenya"
In response to Reply # 175


          

She's been a woman her whole life. This thread isn't about her.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu May-30-19 09:46 AM

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182. "Good point. Thanks. "
In response to Reply # 178


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Case_One
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Thu May-30-19 10:06 AM

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184. "What they did to Caster Semenya is horrible too"
In response to Reply # 178


          




.
.

“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

  

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Walleye
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Thu May-30-19 10:17 AM

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185. "Agreed - she's coming back as a 3000m runner though"
In response to Reply # 184


          

The CAS ruling, which was pretty clearly targeting her (and Wambui and Nyansaba, to a lesser degree) only applies to 400-1500m races. I loved watching her run the 800m so it's a bummer that this has happened, but I rather love that her "fuck you" stance is so strong she's willing to move up. 3000m flat isn't an Olympic or WC event, so I guess she'll have to decide if she wants to learn to hurdle at 3000m, which isn't really much of an issue for Kenyan steeplers, who consistently look like they've never gone over barriers before, or move all the way to 5000m.

Until then, 3000m at the Prefontaine Classic on June 30th.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Mon Jun-21-21 11:23 AM

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186. "NZ Weightlifter to become first transgender athlete to compete at Olympi..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/new-zealand-names-transgender-athlete-hubbard-womens-tokyo-olympics-2021-06-20/

WELLINGTON, June 21 (Reuters) - Weightlifter Laurel Hubbard will become the first transgender athlete to compete at the Olympics after being selected by New Zealand for the women's event at the Tokyo Games, a decision set to reignite a debate over inclusion and fairness in sport.

Hubbard will compete in the super-heavyweight 87+kg category, her selection made possible by an update to qualifying requirements in May. read more

The 43-year-old, who will be the oldest lifter at the Games, had competed in men's weightlifting competitions before transitioning in 2013.


NZOC chief Kereyn Smith said it was an "historic moment in sport and for the New Zealand team."
"She is our first Olympian who has transitioned from male to female," she told reporters.

Hubbard has been eligible to compete at Olympics since 2015, when the International Olympic Committee (IOC) issued guidelines allowing any transgender athlete to compete as a woman provided their testosterone levels are below 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months before their first competition.

Some scientists have said the guidelines do little to mitigate the biological advantages of those who have gone through puberty as males.

Advocates for transgender inclusion argue the process of transition decreases that advantage considerably, and that physical differences between athletes mean there is never truly a level playing field.

The New Zealand government gave its support.

"We are proud of her as we are of all our athletes, and will be supporting her all the way," Sports Minister Grant Robertson said.

Weightlifting has been at the centre of the debate over the fairness of transgender athletes competing against women, and Hubbard's presence in Tokyo could prove divisive.

Save Women's Sport Australasia, a group opposed to transgender women competing in women's sports, said Hubbard's selection was allowed by "flawed policy from the IOC".

"Males do have a performance advantage that is based on their biological sex," the group's co-founder Katherine Deves told Reuters TV.

"They outperform us on every single metric - speed, stamina, strength. Picking testosterone is a red herring ... We are forgetting about the anatomy, the fast, rich muscle, the bigger organs."

The IOC has consistently said it is committed to inclusion but the organisation is also reviewing its guidelines to take into account the "perceived tension between fairness/safety and inclusion/non-discrimination". read more

Hubbard's gold medal wins at the 2019 Pacific Games in Samoa, where she topped the podium ahead of Samoa's Commonwealth Games champion Feagaiga Stowers, triggered outrage in the host nation.

Samoa's weightlifting boss said Hubbard's selection for Tokyo would be like letting athletes dope and feared it could cost the small Pacific nation a medal. read more

Belgian weightlifter Anna Vanbellinghen said last month allowing Hubbard to compete at Tokyo was unfair for women and "like a bad joke". read more

Former New Zealand weightlifter Tracey Lambrechs said she had to make way in the super-heavyweight category at the Commonwealth Games for Hubbard.

"When I was told to drop the category because Laurel was obviously going to be their number one super, it was heartbreaking, like super soul-destroying," the Olympian told TVNZ.

"And it's unfortunate that some female, somewhere is like, 'Well I'm going to miss out on going to the Olympics, on achieving my dream, representing my country because a transgendered athlete is able to compete."

Hubbard, who injured herself during competition at the Commonwealth Games and thought her career was over, thanked New Zealanders.

"Your support, your encouragement, and your aroha (love)carried me through the darkness," she said.

Another transgender athlete, BMX rider Chelsea Wolfe, will travel to Tokyo as part of the United States team, but is named as an alternate and not assured of competing.

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
21648 posts
Mon Jun-21-21 11:46 AM

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187. "Good luck to her, but ole girl from China is gonna wash the fuck out of ..."
In response to Reply # 186


  

          

Li Wenwen

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Mon Aug-02-21 06:02 PM

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308. "Cough cough"
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Jun-21-21 11:47 AM

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188. "Another 10 years of or so and half the women’s olympic sports"
In response to Reply # 186


          

wil be dominated by older transgendered athletes

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Rjcc
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Mon Jun-21-21 01:33 PM

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191. "and when it isn't"
In response to Reply # 188


          

you still won't give a fuck and will say easily disproved things

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Jun-21-21 02:10 PM

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192. "lol"
In response to Reply # 191


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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