Hoping folks can help me out with something. As part of my assignment for a class I had to pick a website, then observe and assess whether or not it was a feminist (of color) and racialized space. I obviously picked these boards and created a new profile to complete my evaluation.

I have been monitoring threads and have developed some of my own conclusions, but I would be interested to see what y'all think. If you could respond to the poll or ideally leave your thoughts below on whether these boards are friendly to feminist and queer perspectives, especially those from folks of color, I would appreciate it.

Happy to share my final assignment here should anyone be interested, and happy to talk more about racialization, online feminism, or my own positionality. Also feel free to tell me to fuck off.

Thanks

Poll result (28 votes) Yes (9 votes) Vote Nah (10 votes) Vote Feminist only (0 votes) Vote Queer only (0 votes) Vote Racialized space (8 votes) Vote Something else (please expand below) (1 votes) Vote

_______________________________________

>
haha just hoping to get some thoughtful responses, fully prepared to sift through whatever comes my way

I see topics *relating* to feminism discussed fairly often. Not sure how long you've been here, but I'd challenge you to find some anti-feminism posts on this board where the poster wasn't immediately shot down. Certain posters on this board get *furious* about the topic. There are most-likely male feminists posting here. There were a bit more 'radical feminists' here, but I think most of them left for twitter where they can be part of a larger group.

We used to have a few queer posters here too, but they've all left as well.

The proof is in the search bar.

I completely agree, it is very easy to find examples that indicate receptiveness to feminist and queer perspectives. I guess my larger question is whether these boards, holistically and ethnographically, are 'safe' for feminists and queer people of color. Whether the totality of the culture on these boards is consistently aligned with these views. Anti-feminist posts are one thing, but I guess I am curious as to what structural realities pushed some of those radical feminists to move to Twitter, to use your example.

>Whether the totality of the culture on these
>boards is consistently aligned with these views.

totality?

is the totality of ANY culture anywhere "consistently aligned" with anything?

thats a rough one to prove

as for this:

>what structural realities pushed some of those radical feminists
>to move to Twitter, to use your example

I'm curious as to what you mean by "stuctural realities" as opposed to internal reasoning

for example, some internally sourced reasons could include:

many folks like the echo chamber of those with like opinion. any kind of "push back" and they leave for a friendlier more "co-signy" (alternative word: supporting) environment

many folks get bored

many folks "grow out" of certain internet cultures

many folks choose whatever platform is more popular at the moment in an effort to reach more (or less) of an audience

many folks want to monetize their opinion, and can't do that on someone else's platform

none of these are "structural" per se

I wouldn't say its about proving anything, I'm not testing a hypothesis but trying to understand how the construction of this online space results in general patterns of behavior which might, consciously or not, marginalize certain users. Obviously nowhere online am I going to find a monoculture universally aligned with feminst and queer persepctives, especially as there is not consensus within these communities themselves.

>I wouldn't say its about proving anything, I'm not testing a
>hypothesis but trying to understand how the construction of
>this online space results in general patterns of behavior
>which might, consciously or not, marginalize certain users.

CONSTRUCTION of an online space that results in behavioral patterns?

outside of how the boards are delineated, or perhaps how they are moderated, I don't really see how that could be a thing

>Obviously nowhere online am I going to find a monoculture
>universally aligned with feminst and queer persepctives,
>especially as there is not consensus within these communities
>themselves.

that is exactly my point, which made your premise kinda fuzzy

no harm no foul

>CONSTRUCTION of an online space that results in behavioral
>patterns?
>
>outside of how the boards are delineated, or perhaps how they
>are moderated, I don't really see how that could be a thing


Construction from a design perspective has a lot to do with it, I think that moderation and design have a huge influence on normative behavior which could perpetuate certain patterns of exclusion

I am also instructed in site 'consruction' through the lens of social constructionism, or how the imagined communities of human social existence come together in online spaces. Any thoughts on the construction of community here?

I appreciate all your thoughtful responses

>I am also instructed in site 'consruction' through the lens of
>social constructionism, or how the imagined communities of
>human social existence come together in online spaces. Any
>thoughts on the construction of community here?

my observation is that it's pretty organic from a user perspective

folks have discourse online, find commonalities and investigate further (via interaction) in real world spaces

i can say there used to be (as mentioned elsewhere) more "meet ups" in certain local spaces (philly, new york, dallas, LA, for example) and even around more "social constuct" areas (DJs, Writers, O-GayPlayers). folk would gather or attend events (parties, concerts, etc) together. this isn't as much a thing anymore. the apogee of this were the NATIONAL "reunions" where posters/lurkers would all gather over some weekend. it took people willing to do the legwork or finding hotels and coordinating activities - folk who believed that the "us" was worth nurturing. parenthetically, to my recollection, these volunteers were always a female or group of them (at minimum in the lead).

as time went on the reunions died out both due to:
- the lower amount of available time to put in the work (and fewer folks willing to take on the responsibility)
- certain events @ the reunions which kinda soured the joyfulness of them. In particular, the after-effect of folks gossiping about some of the more salacious behavior that went on, duplicitous behavior where face-to-face folks were cool then later getting on the boards to talk badly about folks, and even a divide between the participants and non-participants (where it became an in-vs-out crowd thing)

the site itself used to foster the "fam" aspect through putting out targeted merchandise (shirts with sayings tied to specifically to board concepts, ideas, or slang), Quest used to give out tickets to shows and whatnot, or hook folks up with backstage passes on some "next 10 posters to reply get the goods". Angieee was like the cool big-sister who would send people personal gifts and notes of encouragement

then, as site popularity grew, Ang started writing books and working on her career, and the Roots (and associated artists) got bigger - Okayplayer became more of a monetized brand than a community in the same way. people still interacted but more like other sites where it became about a space to "waste time" as opposed to a place where there was intentional effort to be in one another's lives.

little of this had to do with fostering feminism (or the other sub-genres/groupings you highlighted) directly - if anything it was more about BEING who you are and that presenting whatever "voice" your perspective was bringing

Safe from dissenting points of view, ideas or beliefs? NO.

This is why I believe that many have left for other forms of social media. Not everyone agrees on everything here, and many of us have radically different points of view on the same subject. There isn't a list of people that you follow or block here, or any filters, so everyone is exposed to everything.

On twitter/IG/facebook/etc., one can tailor their timeline, friends list, followers, etc. so that they are ONLY exposed to the types of news, information and posts that they WANT to be exposed to.

For many people, an online environment with differing opinions = NOT SAFE, while an online environment where many people share similar ideas = SAFE.

Personally, I stuck around on OKP because I got a wide variety of viewpoints here, and I felt 'safe' expressing a dissenting point of view. I don't feel 'safe' expressing on other social media because of the groupthink mentality there.

>I guess my larger question is whether these boards, holistically
>and ethnographically, are 'safe' for feminists and queer
>people of color. Whether the totality of the culture on these
>boards is consistently aligned with these views. Anti-feminist
>posts are one thing, but I guess I am curious as to what
>structural realities pushed some of those radical feminists to
>move to Twitter, to use your example.

I think there were too many dissenting opinions here, with no way to mute, unfollow or ignore them like on other platforms.

In short, newer social media allows people to join echo chambers. If twitter is the extreme left, this site is in the middle, which doesn't appeal to a lot of people nowadays.

https://phys.org/news/2018-04-billion-tweets-echo-chambers-twitter.html

An important thing to remember about online spaces is that they are, at the core, SOCIAL constructs. You *must* look at the social implications in order to get a complete picture.

the tone and content of the response you will get is determined by a variety of factors

so in that regard the "open to" question would have to recieve an affirmative

another thing to note is you say "these boards" which broadens the scope to all the other areas which are supposed o be narrower in scope. due to their nature I do't know if they are as "open" as this one - so taken as a collective the real answer would be "kinda"

all that said, i think the results of your research would be interesting to see - just to see the conclusions you reach

good luck

As far as being open to discussion, definitely. We used to talk about that stuff all the time in the old days. But it's rare to see robust conversation about those issues when there aren't any women participating.

which is what the result usually is currently

>which is what the result usually is currently

Seems like that is a shift that took place relatively recently, as a part of a gradual decline in participation? Any idea when you might have first noticed a lack of female perspective?

Or whatever year Twitter went completely mainstream (Twitter killed alot of message boards). Mid 2010's.

>Seems like that is a shift that took place relatively
>recently, as a part of a gradual decline in participation?

been that way forever (like internet forever, not just here forever. BUT here forever too)

some folks just got tired of it and bounced

>Any idea when you might have first noticed a lack of female
>perspective?

I was here in the beginning, then left for a while (sidebar: I really miss Angieee)

when I came back many folks had left

some went to loosie as a "cool kids enclave"
some went to facebook and twitter
some just decided to lurk (and pop out randomly)
some had less "disposable time" and grew up into careers, marriages, and kids and whatnot

I'd say the BIGGEST shift happened when "Voodoo" dropped, it went from truly being "fam" to something else due to the influx of new people, perspectives, and opinions

(dunno if you are counting the "soft launch" or the TFA opening, btu they are close enough)

point is: there was a definitive shift then in terms of "feeling" here (the tone of things, the expansion of things)

That's just the way things always were. You kind of said that, so maybe we're on the same page, but I'm not sure.

I think the "bad days" on gender discussion on here were way after 2000. Like maybe 2008 - 2012, or so.

That family atmosphere was still very much alive through the mid 2000s, especially at the various local levels (NYC/Philly/DC/ATL, etc.)

And then the women bounced to Twitter or started lurking exclusively about 5 years ago.

>I think the "bad days" on gender discussion on here were way
>after 2000. Like maybe 2008 - 2012, or so.

i dunno. during the days of "gender warz" at least there was discussion

yeah, it could get pointed

it was at its worst when folks started getting doxxed (posting peoples nekkign pix and whatnot) when their opinion was disagreed with

>That family atmosphere was still very much alive through the
>mid 2000s, especially at the various local levels
>(NYC/Philly/DC/ATL, etc.)

primarily at the local levels i'd say, during the period i mentioned it was still small enough for everyone to kinda just be one group

(i traveled from cali to upstate NY on a business trip and specifically drove down to hang at Black Lily)

>And then the women bounced to Twitter or started lurking
>exclusively about 5 years ago.

this is the gone and back when I was like "where did everyone go? who are THESE folks?"

Conversations about certain topics don't happen here anymore. Even bringing said topic up is cause for the name-calling.

now folks choose to engage the trolling (remember when it was called flaming?)

any attempt at fruitful dialog gets swamped in back-and-forths and like clockwork post become "not worth bothering with"

perhaps devolve *is* the wrong word because many times the poasting starts with the first response

IG: amadu_me

"...Whateva, man..." (c) Redman

at least as far as how it relates to your project.

I think this is a place where everyone is allowed to speak their piece. Yes, there has been some very strong 'racial' content, possibly even hate speech, there has also been intelligent debate among people who disagree STRONGLY, there have been 'teachable moments'

some people get to speak that probly SHOULDNT, IMO...but that's not what we do here. We'll clown the shit out you and drag yo azz...but you can speak tho.

I think MORE feminist perspectives should be here...but maybe they dont feel like castin' they pearls before swine.

IG: amadu_me

"...Whateva, man..." (c) Redman

Leaps and bounds of progress and I think there have been significant shifts in opinion but this isn't the seeding ground for any radical feminist thought. More like a place where that thought can be tested against those who might otherwise not be exposed.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

I also struggle with the idea that more 'radical' feminists left here for different pastures... I don't ever recall a time when there were ever any so-called 'radical' feminists here.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

majority spaces.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Because overall, I don't agree with this.

How is a woman (like the OP) not "safe" here on OKP?

what harassment though is up for question.

For example, I just learned about the expression "reply guy"

https://mashable.com/article/twitter-reply-guys/#TqcDZEuJdZqG

I read about it and I guess I got the picture but I also thought it is kind of the nature of the internet that random people will reply to things you post. However, I take it from the piece this isn't something women have to deal with in women only spaces. IDK.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

To say that someone is wrong for using the technology the way is was not only intended to be used, but is currently set up to be used is pretty-much just a social manipulation technique.

The "reply guy" scenario is the same as being at a party, and when a certain guy chimes into the conversation he's met with negativity (in the case of the party, because he's not one of the 'cool' members of that crowd).

It's absurd to label someone's benign actions as malicious, and is one of the main tools of abusive and manipulative people. Classic back-you-into-a-corner-socially behaviour.




>For example, I just learned about the expression "reply guy"
>
>https://mashable.com/article/twitter-reply-guys/#TqcDZEuJdZqG
>
>I read about it and I guess I got the picture but I also
>thought it is kind of the nature of the internet that random
>people will reply to things you post. However, I take it from
>the piece this isn't something women have to deal with in
>women only spaces. IDK.
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

<--- Big Baller World Order

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

TF is wrong with y’all.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

The dismissive, reality-show level of discussion we have now has ran its' course.

Et al, in a world of right wing digital manipulation, distortion, and global propaganda used as a means to destabilize the very idea of democratic liberalism.
I’ve been monitoring you “supposedly black people” for a week and before I present my analysis to a third party I want to get your direct takes with links on the topics that I mention.
Please contribute.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

This is a public forum. Anyone can join and anyone can come and look to see what we say.

That is, you don't need to do an elaborate ruse to take peoples words out of context and share them with others. And even if that were the goal and you bothered to disguise your ultimate intent why even bother disclose that your plan involves analyzing what we say and sharing it with others?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

These men backtrack on issues when it is apparent that they are taking the lazy perspective, which is let black women handle it.

Anytime someone calls on black men to take more action, the generic okplayer response is, "What are we supposed to do? We aren't beating/raping/abusing women"

The perspective is usually that feminist issues do not require male behavior change.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

>These males are only open when it doesn't call them out
>These men backtrack on issues when it is apparent that they
>are taking the lazy perspective, which is let black women
>handle it.
>
>Anytime someone calls on black men to take more action, the
>generic okplayer response is, "What are we supposed to do? We
>aren't beating/raping/abusing women"
>
>The perspective is usually that feminist issues do not require
>male behavior change.


What you're not asking for is the men here to be better, because when we tell you that we already are you switch to "what about the other men?"

It's pretty dishonest, and also an absurd request: To demand that men put themselves at risk policing the not-illegal behaviour of other men.

It's all there, quoted in your words above, btw.

who are 'these men'?

got any more sweeping generalizations you wanna throw out?

IG: amadu_me

"...Whateva, man..." (c) Redman

-

I started posting here in the early 2000s. There were a bunch of awesome feminist and LGBTQ voices, but they’ve left. I lurk and post here from time to time, and it’s really sad to see a lot of unchecked misogyny and homophobia. A lot of the voices here are straight cis- gendered men, and I’m generally unimpressed with what they have to say.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

yall so fucking transparent and fragile its ridiculous

instead of listening, y'all butthurt. over and over and over

definitely not a feminist space, currently. And LGBTQ friendliness is hard to determine since so many LGBTQ voices left or just lurk now. Perhaps that is an answer in itself.

I think a lot of (male) posters might think okp is a feminist space in the sense that one could easily post a feminist topic or viewpoint and incite discussion. But that's simply messageboard mechanics. I think (the few of us) female posters (left) are thinking a bit more about the "quality" of said discussions.. i.e. whether they are inclusive, substantive, respectful, etc. And by that metric, I'd say it's not at all uncommon to encounter negativity in response to feminist/feminist-leaning views and critiques. That Monique post a while ago comes to mind. Or any post exploring male privilege among blacks.

I mostly only respond about topics I'm nerdy about. Though, occasionally, I'll feel compelled to respond/amplify in a more raucous post if another female poster is in there alone. Even if it's just a cosign or whatever.


>There were a bunch
>of awesome feminist and LGBTQ voices, but they’ve left. I
>lurk and post here from time to time, and it’s really sad to
>see a lot of unchecked misogyny and homophobia. A lot of the
>voices here are straight cis- gendered men

The R Kelly post with all of the black male whataboutism was horrid and such a nasty display of privilege. I don’t think half of the men here even have a clear understanding of feminism anyway so it’s kinda pointless. I feel like the men here are the ones I avoid talking to in my real life. Any yeah, I only usually converse with other women on here. I get more quality discussions from twitter and my black feminist book club.

https://youtu.be/9HMX-EkYUA0




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

And sad

But accurate.
... "A Beautiful Struggle"
https://m.facebook.com/jamelabullock
Www.reverbnation.com/jamela

MELa
Musically.Entertaining.Lyrically.Alluring.

Sometimes my opinions are just antigay and transgender and I don't read works about and by gays or trans people. So I don't get the benefit of having insight into their thoughts, relationships, and opinions. Okp used to be a place that i got to read and understand these things but not as much anymore. Regarding discussions on okp the issue was really that misogynist trolls have a sense of superiority that they will argue down women and gay men to the point that it just becomes the same argument over and over again.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

that historically and currently drive the site and community. if okp picked up, promoted or worked with, i don't know, the internet? frank ocean? maybe we'd see this kind of shift with their audience that would presumably come (if those kind of promotion dynamic / forces driving traffic even apply anymore).

I saw this horrific video of dudes harrassing and assaulting women at Freanik (jeez thank good they banned it).

https://twitter.com/all_in_yo_girl/status/1106415829078458369


I looked at the comments and was disappointed to see that so many of the dudes first reaction was to be critical of the women in the video ("why didn't they run them over?", "Why did they have their windows down?", etc.)

I don't know if that would have stuck out to me as being terrible without the conversations I had here about these topics.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

is the real cat amongst the pigeons on here

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

GD for sure dipped because of it.

---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

This board in particular has one of the most sexist misogynistic online atmospheres I've ever witnessed.

____________________________

FUCK DONALD TRUMP

although the premise was designed to trigger some of that

this language seems like the type that will perpetuate racial i.e. emotional thinking

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

2019 join date

you the feds

_____________________
puttin' the roota in the toota since 98'