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Subject: "I'm sorry but I enjoyed Feinstein owning these little kids" Previous topic | Next topic
Buddy_Gilapagos
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Mon Sep-28-20 12:15 PM

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"I'm sorry but I enjoyed Feinstein owning these little kids"
Wed Feb-27-19 10:20 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

You would think in a showdown between a crusty old congressional lifers and adorable passionate kids, the kids would win at least on a perception level.

But what I saw was all passion and idealism, some petulance, and an unwillingness to listen and deal in practical reality.

I think Feinstein was empathetic and polite but did not coddle and was firm on where she stood. She was honest with the kids and what they really wanted to hear was comforting lies.

I know the effect the kids wanted to have, but it didn't come off like they planned. They wanted it to be one way, but it was the other.

This video is very symbolic of my problems with the far left. All dreams and passion, and not a lot of practical problem-solving.


Or am I just old and cynical and yall with the kids?

the video

https://twitter.com/tommyxtopher/status/1099137889043140609



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
proper (re)posting
Feb 27th 2019
1
edited OP to add video.
Feb 27th 2019
.
Feb 27th 2019
2
She came off very poorly
Feb 27th 2019
3
I don't think she did at all. The kids aren't being educated on the proc...
Feb 27th 2019
4
      These kids are being taught to be partisan, going after that Democrat?
Feb 27th 2019
6
      The Green New Deal is a Green Party initiative; is it not?
Feb 27th 2019
9
           No, it isn't
Feb 27th 2019
12
                It's partisan fam....
Feb 27th 2019
13
                     In that the people who support it are Democrats, yes it is
Feb 27th 2019
14
                          How does what I said (copied again below), have anything to do with what
Feb 27th 2019
17
                               The kids weren't being partisan against this democrat, dude
Feb 27th 2019
19
                               *sigh*..... see the definition of a pawn.
Feb 27th 2019
20
                                    these kids are pawns of the Green Party?
Feb 27th 2019
21
                                         Very much so in the capacity that they were deployed in the video.
Feb 27th 2019
24
                               Taught to be partisan?
Feb 27th 2019
22
                                    Not a single of those kids arrived to have a dialogue. That's clue #1.
Feb 27th 2019
25
                                         Why would they converse with a representative?
Feb 27th 2019
34
                                         And their demands were heard and documented.
Feb 27th 2019
36
                                              You’re 40 or so and statistically you have fewer years left
Feb 27th 2019
39
                                                   I'm confident they learned a valuable lesson that day. I'm not going to
Feb 27th 2019
43
                                         Yes, part of convincing someone is arguing your point
Feb 27th 2019
35
                                              I don't have an answer for that. What I watched doesn't appear to be it
Feb 27th 2019
38
                                                   For the record, I don't even think she's the worst
Feb 27th 2019
41
                                                        I just don't see any other way it could have gone down.....realistically...
Feb 27th 2019
47
      The kids have to take strategic active shooter lessons instead of
Feb 27th 2019
27
           Fam, I got a 6 year old in kindergarten. She's had an active shooter dri...
Feb 27th 2019
33
           What’s the other side of, “the world will be uninhabitable without
Feb 27th 2019
37
           I personally think that once those kids grow and become the lawmakers th...
Sep 26th 2020
174
she's so out of touch it's pathetic.. the video hurts her most
Feb 27th 2019
5
That's gonna be a no from me dogg. What she said basically ...
Feb 27th 2019
7
Entitled kids be annoying at shit though...as an adult with a lotta shit...
Feb 27th 2019
10
Haha yea you're not wrong. But a parent or sibling ...
Feb 27th 2019
15
      Perception... She actually engaged them, listened, responded with
Feb 27th 2019
18
Even if they had literally been there asking for free ponies
Feb 27th 2019
11
RE: What she said basically...you can't vote so fuck your feelings.
Feb 27th 2019
51
Yes
Feb 27th 2019
8
You missed the part where she provided her bill and asked for their feed...
Feb 27th 2019
16
      Saw the whole video, didn't make her look good
Feb 27th 2019
32
      So acknowledging that the Senate is controlled by the GOP is capitulatin...
Feb 27th 2019
68
      Again, imagine a GOP senator
Feb 27th 2019
73
      ^^^ All this
Feb 27th 2019
70
      Lmao. Trying to treat kids like adults is a bad idea
Feb 27th 2019
46
           Shrugs. My parents talked to me like adult as long as I can remember.
Feb 27th 2019
57
                yep
Sep 26th 2020
173
I would love to get a demographic breakdown of OKP general
Feb 27th 2019
23
The youth of today are organizing national boycotts
Feb 27th 2019
28
such is the nature of change
Feb 27th 2019
31
but my parents generation
Feb 28th 2019
129
I'm 42. The older I get, the more I "get it". I've seen a LOT of shit ch...
Feb 27th 2019
29
      and to be clear...i'm not anti-youth. But these youngins in THIS video
Feb 27th 2019
30
           Yeah. I have mixed feeling about using kids like this
Feb 27th 2019
48
Feinstein needs to retire.
Feb 27th 2019
26
she will never retire...
Feb 27th 2019
40
I’m sure Fox News enjoyed this as well.
Feb 27th 2019
42
They die of a diminished earth like we all will
Feb 27th 2019
44
^^the white elephant that's walking up the basement stairs^^
Feb 27th 2019
45
your take is hot garbage.
Feb 27th 2019
49
Help me to understand. Seems like there're 2 different discussions(at le...
Feb 27th 2019
50
3. Process in the face of crisis is dumb
Feb 27th 2019
52
I've approached this post with each of them (3) being independent of the...
Feb 27th 2019
54
Do you really want to be as theatrically hysterical as those kids?
Feb 27th 2019
59
How much of the science on climate change have you read?
Feb 27th 2019
66
      *raises hand*
Feb 27th 2019
77
      Aggressive legislation and funding from the most litigious country
Feb 27th 2019
86
           Now I don't even know if you're talking about climate anymore.
Feb 27th 2019
87
                I'm genuinely curious about your scientific/professional points
Feb 27th 2019
89
                I'm a mathematical physicist.
Feb 27th 2019
98
                     appreciate it
Feb 27th 2019
101
                          It really is.
Feb 27th 2019
107
                The GND Bill and whatever follows is the only substantive path forward
Feb 27th 2019
90
                     So why isn't the answer...
Feb 27th 2019
108
                          Because you’d need a gateway to fully fund a science program
Feb 27th 2019
109
                               I'm not trying to say we should go with the spaceship plan.
Feb 27th 2019
111
                                    I don't know what would work. I trust people like you to develop those
Feb 27th 2019
112
      By hysteria I am referring to you and the kids rhetoric and not substanc...
Feb 27th 2019
95
           Again. By saying that end of sustainable existence realities are hysteri...
Feb 27th 2019
96
don't throw water on a grease chicken grease fire
Feb 27th 2019
65
      Her process is dumb and it’s a shitty starting point.
Feb 27th 2019
67
           agreed (this seems to be what you want)
Feb 27th 2019
69
                To these folks? Yes.
Feb 27th 2019
71
                     we gotta be careful to not become the thing we hate
Feb 27th 2019
76
                          I’m a me. I’m not a we. I dont have a side.
Feb 27th 2019
80
                               Duly noted. Good luck with that
Feb 27th 2019
84
RE: discussion 2, see Greta Thunberg
Feb 27th 2019
53
      RE: discussion 2, see Lake Erie Bill of Rights
Feb 27th 2019
55
      by "entitled" I simply mean believing that something is "owed" to you
Feb 27th 2019
56
           Dude, the ages in that room were 7-17
Feb 27th 2019
58
           I feel like your standard for kids is too low.
Feb 27th 2019
60
           Was that an answer?
Feb 27th 2019
61
           thus Discussion Path #1. Kids gotta learn early.
Feb 27th 2019
62
           no, I defined entitlement and it =/= not wanting to die
Feb 27th 2019
63
           I feel like I understand you better after the above post breaking
Feb 27th 2019
75
                They've already done more than most adults.
Feb 27th 2019
81
                Entitled is absolutely the wrong word
Feb 27th 2019
83
                     i'll concede it's the wrong word....
Feb 27th 2019
92
                     Nope. They were entitled.
Feb 27th 2019
94
                          RE: white kids
Feb 27th 2019
97
                          He’s extremely conservative
Feb 27th 2019
102
                               LOL. It what world would I be considered extremely conservative?
Feb 27th 2019
104
                               Within OKP political discussions...
Feb 27th 2019
106
                               Fox & Friends attacks the Sunrise Movement for "using the children" to f...
Feb 28th 2019
113
                          they were more respectful to her than she was to them
Feb 27th 2019
103
                I try fam, I try. I know I be all over the place sometimes too....
Feb 27th 2019
82
yooo... That kid snapping back about the military budget
Feb 27th 2019
64
Feinstein was 100% right in that exchange,
Feb 27th 2019
72
all of the this
Feb 28th 2019
130
Nah she still looked like a dick
Feb 27th 2019
74
I'm watching it now. When she tells the girl "...and you can take that.....
Feb 27th 2019
78
The only way she would look "good" is if she agreed with them
Feb 27th 2019
79
^^^^^
Feb 28th 2019
146
nah that's bullshit
Feb 28th 2019
150
BTW, the recent trend of so and so owning so and so...is some bullshit
Feb 27th 2019
85
Feinstein DESTROYS preteen tree hugging CUCKS
Feb 27th 2019
88
^^^ terrible trend on youtube
Feb 27th 2019
99
      watch an occasional Rogan clip and your algorithm is fucked
Feb 27th 2019
105
           I want to SHOVE Shapiro in a LOCKER
Feb 28th 2019
114
           The Alex Jones appearance on JRE made real waves in his fanbase
Feb 28th 2019
119
                Lol he was on again yesterday
Feb 28th 2019
135
Did "owns" come back recently?
Feb 27th 2019
91
RE: Did "owns" come back recently?
Feb 27th 2019
93
Yes definitely.
Feb 28th 2019
120
Absolutely
Feb 27th 2019
100
fuck thems kids (c)
Feb 27th 2019
110
Fuck their future.
Feb 28th 2019
115
      I think those kids represent why the future is fucked.
Feb 28th 2019
116
      Nah. Not even close.
Feb 28th 2019
118
      I didn't say that the future is fucked BECAUSE of these kids.
Feb 28th 2019
      "Kids" have, literally, always been like this.
Feb 28th 2019
121
      I agree it's nothing new but you are making my point
Feb 28th 2019
124
           .
Feb 28th 2019
126
           You looking terrible in here fam.
Feb 28th 2019
127
                Dude if I was concerned about looking terrible to yall folks....
Feb 28th 2019
134
      None of the kids in this video are "millenials"
Feb 28th 2019
122
      Facts.
Feb 28th 2019
123
      Yeah I never called these kids Millennials.
Feb 28th 2019
125
      Some of the same attacks that were levied against the Parkland survivors
Feb 28th 2019
142
      Right. No one in here was politically
Feb 28th 2019
117
           Wait, wasn't everyone politically engaged at that age?
Feb 28th 2019
128
           I wasn’t politically engaged at 7.
Feb 28th 2019
131
           not in the least
Feb 28th 2019
132
           This an another OKP moment.
Feb 28th 2019
133
           Right
Feb 28th 2019
138
           lol
Feb 28th 2019
139
           16 year olds? Definitely.
Feb 28th 2019
136
                i was tagging on busses when I was 16
Feb 28th 2019
148
                I was a the typical fake Malcolm X at 16
Feb 28th 2019
151
           I'd say I started to get "engaged" with politics at 16
Feb 28th 2019
137
           enough to confront a senator?
Feb 28th 2019
140
           I had a parent that used to work at the Texas Senate
Feb 28th 2019
143
           THEY didn't confront the senator, though.
Feb 28th 2019
154
           i JUST got HALFWAY engaged lol....
Feb 28th 2019
141
           Ninja speak for yourself. I got to meet Jesse when he came to Richmond
Feb 28th 2019
144
                Nigga, politicians kiss babies.. doesn’t mean they were engaged.
Feb 28th 2019
152
                     Mr Jackson, how do plan of paying for reparations (c) 4 y.o. BG
Feb 28th 2019
153
                          What is your stance on #ADOS Mr Jackson
Feb 28th 2019
155
Enjoyed it ? Are you Snoop ?
Feb 28th 2019
145
But folks trying to say they didn't laugh at that shit either. SMH.
Feb 28th 2019
147
      LOL that was a movie it's not the same thing.
Feb 28th 2019
149
Those kids grow into these obnoxious NYU kids
Mar 16th 2019
156
What ?
Mar 16th 2019
157
Fuck Feinstein
Sep 21st 2020
158
Free Buddy G!!!
Sep 22nd 2020
159
did he get banned?
Sep 22nd 2020
161
Nah.. he got band.
Sep 22nd 2020
162
I am free bruh
Sep 22nd 2020
164
      Glad you put your mental health/productivity first. Thats vital. Forreal...
Sep 22nd 2020
165
      Salute.. stay Black!!!
Sep 22nd 2020
166
      good call tbh
Sep 24th 2020
169
      Glad you made a good choice, but a distinction here:
Sep 25th 2020
171
           Frank someone deleting my post is deciding what I am allowed to talk abo...
Sep 27th 2020
179
This post aged like some milk boy
Sep 22nd 2020
160
Fuck them kids (c)
Sep 22nd 2020
163
Damn just read who typed that
Sep 22nd 2020
167
I don't even besmirch buddy this one, but it's funny.
Sep 24th 2020
168
and buddy followed it up with a bigger L because he didn't read LOL
Sep 25th 2020
170
      Bruh can I respectfully ask that you stop harassing me?
Sep 26th 2020
172
      this was not a reply to you, I have not made a post about you.
Sep 26th 2020
176
           As a moderator, you don't think its harrassing to come into this post
Sep 27th 2020
180
                I know. you're mad because someone else dissed you.
Sep 27th 2020
186
                     I want you to leave me alone. This is about your behavior as a Moderator...
Sep 28th 2020
193
                          I responded to a direct question you asked me.
Sep 28th 2020
199
                               If you call your response answering my question then the answer seemms
Sep 28th 2020
201
                                    there's a missing reply here because buddy double posted
Sep 28th 2020
202
      climate denial and MRA. he dying on the worst hills possible right now.
Sep 27th 2020
181
           Buddy didn't deny climate change
Sep 27th 2020
184
                I'm lumping in anyones whos totally fine with doing nothing as deniers
Sep 27th 2020
187
                     at least the little kids have an excuse for stuff like this
Sep 27th 2020
189
children have no place in politics
Sep 26th 2020
177
      How dare they try to hold public servants accountable
Sep 27th 2020
182
      wouldn't go that far
Sep 27th 2020
185
They wanted it to be a one-way conversation and she actually engaged
Sep 26th 2020
175
Feinstein should be fucking retired.
Sep 27th 2020
178
You're falling for Republican and Russian shit
Sep 27th 2020
183
I found the name of the russian responsible for this propaganda
Sep 27th 2020
188
You're the type of chump they go after
Sep 27th 2020
190
      "experienced" is another term for old and complicit.
Sep 27th 2020
191
           And then what?????????
Sep 27th 2020
192
                Combatting Voter supression is the responsibility of Voters?
Sep 28th 2020
194
                It’s our fault for voting in the same old asses into office
Sep 28th 2020
195
                Democrats need to do a better job distinguishing themselves then
Sep 28th 2020
196
                     THIS!
Sep 28th 2020
197
                     ^^It's ALWAYS the democrats fault according to you
Sep 28th 2020
198
                          Yeah it is Democrats fault sometimes
Sep 28th 2020
203
                          Good god is she awful.
Sep 28th 2020
204
                          god forbid they are held to a standard.
Sep 28th 2020
205
                          Voters aren't going to change their behavior overnight.
Sep 29th 2020
206
So now if you criticize Democrats, you're a russian troll???
Sep 29th 2020
207
I believe you are entitled to one 'I Told You So!'
Oct 16th 2020
210
RE: I'm sorry but I enjoyed Feinstein owning these little kids
Oct 16th 2020
208
Reply 160 aged like some wine boy
Oct 16th 2020
209

FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
42887 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 10:19 AM

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1. "proper (re)posting"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-27-19 10:25 AM by FLUIDJ

  

          




"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
45437 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 10:20 AM

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"edited OP to add video. "


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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45437 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 10:20 AM

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2. "."
In response to Reply # 1
Wed Feb-27-19 10:21 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

.

  

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kevlar skully
Member since Mar 13th 2007
6049 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 10:25 AM

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3. "She came off very poorly "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          




Those kids are worried for their future and these crusty career politicians are not going to be around long enough to give a fuck



People don't know if they want kids to be thinking about politics or just to be stupid kids; either way, y'all just going to dog them

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
42887 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 10:32 AM

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4. "I don't think she did at all. The kids aren't being educated on the proc..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Appropriately. They're being used and set up for failure in the capacity that they were deployed here.

They didn't go there to learn.
The people that prodded them to go there didn't send them there to learn.

>Those kids are worried for their future and these crusty
>career politicians are not going to be around long enough to
>give a fuck

I don't think that's an accurate assessment.

>People don't know if they want kids to be thinking about
>politics or just to be stupid kids; either way, y'all just
>going to dog them

I think there's a problem with kids being taught to be partisan. That's what this video displays to me.
I don't think anyone is dogging the kids either.


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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kevlar skully
Member since Mar 13th 2007
6049 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 10:38 AM

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6. "These kids are being taught to be partisan, going after that Democrat?"
In response to Reply # 4
Wed Feb-27-19 10:41 AM by kevlar skully

  

          

>Appropriately. They're being used and set up for failure in
>the capacity that they were deployed here.
>
>They didn't go there to learn.
>The people that prodded them to go there didn't send them
>there to learn.
>
>>Those kids are worried for their future and these crusty
>>career politicians are not going to be around long enough to
>>give a fuck
>
>I don't think that's an accurate assessment.
>
>>People don't know if they want kids to be thinking about
>>politics or just to be stupid kids; either way, y'all just
>>going to dog them
>
>I think there's a problem with kids being taught to be
>partisan. That's what this video displays to me.
>I don't think anyone is dogging the kids either.

You think the kids aren't worried about their future?

and I think it's safe to say there are people dogging the kids since the thread title is about "enjoying" them "being owned"

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
42887 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 10:43 AM

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9. "The Green New Deal is a Green Party initiative; is it not?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Yes it's gained popularity via a popular Democrat, but it's still very much an initiative that's partisan in nature.

>>Appropriately. They're being used and set up for failure in
>>the capacity that they were deployed here.
>>
>>They didn't go there to learn.
>>The people that prodded them to go there didn't send them
>>there to learn.
>>
>>>Those kids are worried for their future and these crusty
>>>career politicians are not going to be around long enough
>to
>>>give a fuck
>>
>>I don't think that's an accurate assessment.
>>
>>>People don't know if they want kids to be thinking about
>>>politics or just to be stupid kids; either way, y'all just
>>>going to dog them
>>
>>I think there's a problem with kids being taught to be
>>partisan. That's what this video displays to me.
>>I don't think anyone is dogging the kids either.
>
>You think the kids aren't worried about their future?

Where did I say that?


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Marauder21
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49516 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 10:47 AM

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12. "No, it isn't"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

As there are zero members of Congress who are in the Green Party.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
42887 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 10:49 AM

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13. "It's partisan fam...."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Marauder21
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49516 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 10:53 AM

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14. "In that the people who support it are Democrats, yes it is"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

Not sure what that proves or what it has to do with the Green Party. Notable GND opponent Dianne Feinstein is also a Democrat. Some of her constituents would like her to support it. How is this hard?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
42887 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 10:58 AM

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17. "How does what I said (copied again below), have anything to do with what"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

You're saying i'm trying to "prove"?
I'm not trying prove anything.
I made statement based on how I felt about the video and the kids in the video and the kids' handlers....

Here's what I said:
"I think there's a problem with kids being taught to be partisan. That's what this video displays to me.
I don't think anyone is dogging the kids either."

>Not sure what that proves or what it has to do with the Green
>Party. Notable GND opponent Dianne Feinstein is also a
>Democrat. Some of her constituents would like her to support
>it. How is this hard?

Why are you making this hard?



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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kevlar skully
Member since Mar 13th 2007
6049 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 11:03 AM

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19. "The kids weren't being partisan against this democrat, dude "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

The Green New Deal is being pushed by Democrats, mostly

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
42887 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 11:06 AM

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20. "*sigh*..... see the definition of a pawn. "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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kevlar skully
Member since Mar 13th 2007
6049 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 11:06 AM

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21. "these kids are pawns of the Green Party?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
42887 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 11:10 AM

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24. "Very much so in the capacity that they were deployed in the video."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Marauder21
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22. "Taught to be partisan?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

What?

If someone says "this is something important to me" and one of our two major political parties says "FOH libtard, your concerns aren't real," who is actually teaching that person to be partisan?

There were plenty of opportunities in the Bush years when the GOP at least had a chance to offer their competing solutions for climate change, to at least pretend like they were just as concerned, but thought solution X was wrong and instead offered solution Y. They doubled down on "FOH" instead.

How do you honestly tell kids about climate change and the political process and *not* make it sound like one side is actively harming them?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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25. "Not a single of those kids arrived to have a dialogue. That's clue #1."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

The people that sent them there sent them with a single agenda with a single narrative and a single mindset.
They sent them there with the belief that they were the "good guys" and Feinstein was the "bad guy" that they had to convince to be a "good guy".
>What?
>
>If someone says "this is something important to me" and one of
>our two major political parties says "FOH libtard, your
>concerns aren't real," who is actually teaching that person to
>be partisan?
>
>There were plenty of opportunities in the Bush years when the
>GOP at least had a chance to offer their competing solutions
>for climate change, to at least pretend like they were just as
>concerned, but thought solution X was wrong and instead
>offered solution Y. They doubled down on "FOH" instead.
>
>How do you honestly tell kids about climate change and the
>political process and *not* make it sound like one side is
>actively harming them?

For starters you tell/teach them about the process. She tried, but they didn't arrive with open ears. Wonder if any of them even read her alternative draft bill?
These kids DESPERATELY need School House Rocks...smh...

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Wed Feb-27-19 11:28 AM

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34. "Why would they converse with a representative?"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

Feinstein is the rep
They’re the constituents
They have demands.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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FLUIDJ
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36. "And their demands were heard and documented. "
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

She explained why she wasn't on board with voting yes.
Presented what she WAS on board with doing.
Someone should have prepared them kids to hear No as an answer.


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Wed Feb-27-19 11:41 AM

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39. "You’re 40 or so and statistically you have fewer years left "
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

Than you have been here.
Take that in for a moment
The daily existential crisis of looming mortality that we all live with

Now funnel that through the processing capacity of a pre teen

They handled it like kids because they are kids

Process and beuracracy is irrational
Appealing to logic in the face of emotions hardly world on adults, why you assume it should work on kids is beyond me.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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FLUIDJ
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43. "I'm confident they learned a valuable lesson that day. I'm not going to "
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

sit here and dogpile the person that taught it to them.


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Marauder21
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35. "Yes, part of convincing someone is arguing your point"
In response to Reply # 25
Wed Feb-27-19 11:34 AM by Marauder21

  

          

That's part of a dialogue. Admittedly it's not as open and fair minded as "I won by over a million votes, I know what I'm doing, you didn't vote for me" is.

How often do you show up to just have a dialogue, without arguing, on something you absolutely have no opinion on one way or the other? Would you fly across the country to meet with one of your elected officials about it?

What is the way to teach kids the truth about climate change that also doesn't make anyone look bad?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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FLUIDJ
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38. "I don't have an answer for that. What I watched doesn't appear to be it"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

though.

Now...whatever went down leading UP to that must have worked in some capacity though. Feinstein has/had clearly already given some thought to the issue as she'd already had a draft proposal on hand.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Marauder21
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41. "For the record, I don't even think she's the worst"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

Could've handled it better, but there was some discussion back and forth.

I just don't think anyone who has been doing it that long and is that old gets the immediacy of this for those kids. She mostly came off like someone who has been a manager at a job forever and doesn't think anyone can tell her shit. Which, we've all been there, that's understandable. But maybe you shouldn't be in public service if that's your response to a bunch of kids legitimately concerned for their futures.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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FLUIDJ
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47. "I just don't see any other way it could have gone down.....realistically..."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

Her saying "Ok, i'll vote yes"....was never in the cards...
The folks that sent them kids there HAD to know that...they HAD to...
They set them kids up.


>Could've handled it better, but there was some discussion
>back and forth.
>
>I just don't think anyone who has been doing it that long and
>is that old gets the immediacy of this for those kids. She
>mostly came off like someone who has been a manager at a job
>forever and doesn't think anyone can tell her shit. Which,
>we've all been there, that's understandable. But maybe you
>shouldn't be in public service if that's your response to a
>bunch of kids legitimately concerned for their futures.


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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27. "The kids have to take strategic active shooter lessons instead of "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Adults changing guns laws because of “process”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/02/16/active-shooter-drills-for-preschoolers-this-is-who-we-are-now/

Pants wetting and crying and facing imagining their violent deaths of themselves and friends before they have pubic hair

Team kids when it comes to emergency, y’all immortal niggas can have y’alls process

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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33. "Fam, I got a 6 year old in kindergarten. She's had an active shooter dri..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

every month since she started kindergarten in September.

I get it.
I'm scared for her and all of them.
I'm scared for her future.

But there's no way in hell i'm gonna teach her that the solution to any of these problems lies with putting all of their eggs in a partisan basket.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Wed Feb-27-19 11:36 AM

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37. "What’s the other side of, “the world will be uninhabitable without "
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Immediate and direct intervention?”

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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SuiteLady
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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174. "I personally think that once those kids grow and become the lawmakers th..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

laws will change. The is the only hope I have in this discussion.

♥ Inescapably Me ♥

"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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5. "she's so out of touch it's pathetic.. the video hurts her most"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Brew
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7. "That's gonna be a no from me dogg. What she said basically ..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-27-19 10:41 AM by Brew

          

... only amounted to "I just won a big election, so I'm smarter than you." Oh ! Well then ! I guess that resolves that !

I mean I get that she wasn't necessarily gonna get into the weeds about the finer points of climate change with a bunch of yelling pre-teens but still, there are a trillion better ways she could've handled herself here.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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10. "Entitled kids be annoying at shit though...as an adult with a lotta shit..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

and not enough time to do it....
I understand...and I ain't mad at her lol...

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Feb-27-19 10:55 AM

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15. "Haha yea you're not wrong. But a parent or sibling ..."
In response to Reply # 10


          

... telling an obnoxious, entitled kid to fuck off (in so many words, of course) is one thing. A politician is supposed to care about their public perception and I think it's pretty universally accepted that she reacted horribly to a situation that could've easily been diffused by simply acknowledging their concerns and saying some typical politician bullshit like "I don't think the GND was the answer, but I will work hard to find alternate solutions to these issues to ensure the planet's inhabitability for your futures" or something like that.

But I also acknowledge that we're living in strange times, politicians clearly don't *have* to give a shit about how they come off anymore lol soooo ... yea.


>and not enough time to do it....
>I understand...and I ain't mad at her lol...

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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18. "Perception... She actually engaged them, listened, responded with "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

solid reasoning WHY she wasn't voting for it and where she stood on the issue, and what she WAS doing.
I dunno...she did a LOT more than required IMO. That didn't look like a scheduled appointment. She could have easily shoo'ed them away and not talked them at all.

>... telling an obnoxious, entitled kid to fuck off (in so
>many words, of course) is one thing. A politician is supposed
>to care about their public perception and I think it's pretty
>universally accepted that she reacted horribly to a situation
>that could've easily been diffused by simply acknowledging
>their concerns and saying some typical politician bullshit
>like "I don't think the GND was the answer, but I will work
>hard to find alternate solutions to these issues to ensure the
>planet's inhabitability for your futures" or something like
>that.

What she DID was much better than appeasing them and lying to them though. She told her truth. She explained it. And presented the approach and tactic that she's intending to use and STILL stayed and heard them out.

>But I also acknowledge that we're living in strange times,
>politicians clearly don't *have* to give a shit about how they
>come off anymore lol soooo ... yea.

I'm not getting that vibe at all from the video. I understand that's the narrative being pushed...but that's not what i'm seeing.

>>and not enough time to do it....
>>I understand...and I ain't mad at her lol...


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Marauder21
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11. "Even if they had literally been there asking for free ponies"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

It was a bad way to handle it.

But when you're old and rich, nobody can tell you anything (related, old and rich people should not be in the Senate)

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:10 PM

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51. "RE: What she said basically...you can't vote so fuck your feelings."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I think one of the kids speaking was as young as 7 years old

WTF

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Marauder21
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8. "Yes"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-27-19 10:45 AM by Marauder21

  

          

>Or am I just old and cynical and yall with the kids?

Not sure what proving to kids that you're a really bad negotiator is supposed to teach them, and the "you didn't vote for me" shit is Trumpian.

Seriously, imagine a veteran GOP senator saying "we can't do anything about this until we have significant Democratic buy-in on a thing they inherently do not believe is even real." To kids OR adults. And then thinking "oh man, they're so fucking smart."

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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16. "You missed the part where she provided her bill and asked for their feed..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Yall really want your politicians to pat you and the head and say I love your passion knowing the shit they are proposing will never pass?

That's just bullshit coodling. She tried to treat them like adults and have a grown up discussion with how it works and they just couldn't be bothered to pay any attention to anything they were saying and stuck to the "We are the future and we are going to die!"

It's just a disservice to kids to not be real with them.

or let me axe you this, describe a scenario of how it could have gone down in a way that you would have found acceptable that is also not total bullshit?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Marauder21
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Wed Feb-27-19 11:25 AM

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32. "Saw the whole video, didn't make her look good"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

I also don't have a special spot in my heart for rich octogenarians yelling at kids, though, so that's just me.

>Yall really want your politicians to pat you and the head and
>say I love your passion knowing the shit they are proposing
>will never pass?

What if you explained why it was unlikely to pass as of now AND, instead of talking about why it was so important to compromise with a bunch of people who literally don't believe the issue you care about exists, talked about WHY they don't believe it exists and what needs to be done about that. I understand this might be *partisan* and therefore bad, and that it also might implicate you and your party as well. But what's the harm in being real?

Like, what if you started from the position that this was something we need and gradually wittled down from there? Instead of starting from the position that you need to appease Republicans, so best to start with something that is basically a warmed-over GOP plan from 2003, then watch them all not vote for it anyway.

>That's just bullshit coodling. She tried to treat them like
>adults and have a grown up discussion with how it works and
>they just couldn't be bothered to pay any attention to
>anything they were saying and stuck to the "We are the future
>and we are going to die!"
>
>It's just a disservice to kids to not be real with them.

I mean, yeah, "I will capitulate to Republicans" is her being honest. I guess I don't see what's so honorable or BAWSE BITCH about that.

>or let me axe you this, describe a scenario of how it could
>have gone down in a way that you would have found acceptable
>that is also not total bullshit?

Acceptable: "Thanks, I support this because even though I'm going to be dead soon, it would be cool if the whole world didn't boil to death after I'm gone."

Truly honest answer: "I am a huge part of the problem because I'm 80 and don't give a shit."

Acceptable, honest answer: "I am a huge part of the problem because I'm 80 and don't give a shit, time for me to resign and let this seat be held by someone who doesn't suck ass. Your parents are probably lying to you, smoke weed everyday."

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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68. "So acknowledging that the Senate is controlled by the GOP is capitulatin..."
In response to Reply # 32
Wed Feb-27-19 12:40 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

In what ways are Feinstein's plan major give ins to the GOP over the OG Green Plan?

And how is being real with them just pointing fingers at republicans. I know it's way easier and satisfying to do so but what does that actually get done?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Marauder21
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73. "Again, imagine a GOP senator"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

STARTING from the position that any major legislation is going to need significant buy in from Democrats, since they control one chamber of Congress (at the moment.) And then telling their constituents that what's important now is to reach across the aisle and work with the opposition party, so it would be best to START with something that's more ideologically inline with them (even though you know from experience that they never actually support major GOP legislation) and then negotiate downwards from there.

He'd be out of a job for that.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:43 PM

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70. "^^^ All this"
In response to Reply # 32


          

>I also don't have a special spot in my heart for rich
>octogenarians yelling at kids, though, so that's just me.

LOL pretty much


>
>>Yall really want your politicians to pat you and the head
>and
>>say I love your passion knowing the shit they are proposing
>>will never pass?
>
>What if you explained why it was unlikely to pass as of now
>AND, instead of talking about why it was so important to
>compromise with a bunch of people who literally don't believe
>the issue you care about exists, talked about WHY they don't
>believe it exists and what needs to be done about that. I
>understand this might be *partisan* and therefore bad, and
>that it also might implicate you and your party as well. But
>what's the harm in being real?
>
>Like, what if you started from the position that this was
>something we need and gradually wittled down from there?
>Instead of starting from the position that you need to appease
>Republicans, so best to start with something that is basically
>a warmed-over GOP plan from 2003, then watch them all not vote
>for it anyway.
>
>>That's just bullshit coodling. She tried to treat them like
>>adults and have a grown up discussion with how it works and
>>they just couldn't be bothered to pay any attention to
>>anything they were saying and stuck to the "We are the
>future
>>and we are going to die!"
>>
>>It's just a disservice to kids to not be real with them.
>
>I mean, yeah, "I will capitulate to Republicans" is her being
>honest. I guess I don't see what's so honorable or BAWSE BITCH
>about that.
>
>>or let me axe you this, describe a scenario of how it could
>>have gone down in a way that you would have found acceptable
>>that is also not total bullshit?
>
>Acceptable: "Thanks, I support this because even though I'm
>going to be dead soon, it would be cool if the whole world
>didn't boil to death after I'm gone."
>
>Truly honest answer: "I am a huge part of the problem because
>I'm 80 and don't give a shit."
>
>Acceptable, honest answer: "I am a huge part of the problem
>because I'm 80 and don't give a shit, time for me to resign
>and let this seat be held by someone who doesn't suck ass.
>Your parents are probably lying to you, smoke weed everyday."

You nailed it.

And its amazing some folks don't see the issue with Dems starting at a position of compromise again and again.

And, in general, I don't think "lets tell all these dumb kids just how stupid they are" is a winning strategy for Dems. Some folks seem determined to drive people away at all costs.


  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67653 posts
Wed Feb-27-19 11:54 AM

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46. "Lmao. Trying to treat kids like adults is a bad idea"
In response to Reply # 16


          

Funny how when it comes to “lecturing” you kids it’s wrong but then you turn around and applaud this old white lady doing it.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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57. "Shrugs. My parents talked to me like adult as long as I can remember."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

To this day hearing parents talk to kids in a baby or kid addressing voice grates my nears (understanding that's just a personal thing though).

Anyway, that may be why I see a difference between lecturing and having a adult dialogue with kids and you can't seem to understand the difference.

I didn't see lecture here. Those kids did not come at all to listen and couldn't address the real world obstacles she discussed.

They were only their for emotional grandstanding.



>Funny how when it comes to “lecturing” you kids it’s
>wrong but then you turn around and applaud this old white lady
>doing it.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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SuiteLady
Member since Oct 19th 2004
14900 posts
Sat Sep-26-20 08:44 AM

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173. "yep"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          


> Those kids did not come at all to
>listen and couldn't address the real world obstacles she
>discussed.

the teachers and grownups with them should have prepped them to response to the talking points she could potentially have for them

♥ Inescapably Me ♥

"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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23. "I would love to get a demographic breakdown of OKP general"
In response to Reply # 0


          

there appears to be a very dramatic shift between the optimism (and how to go about it) that existed 20 years ago vs the same in the new people hear now

likewise, the philosophical and ideological shifts in the oldheads (charter members, what what) would be interesting to analyze too

realism vs idealism

youthful zeal mixed with "you old, just die already so we can change world " (the processes from SAYING that to being the object of it)

s'wild to watch

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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28. "The youth of today are organizing national boycotts"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Voting drives
Tearing down monuments
Confronting mobs


Team youth all the way.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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31. "such is the nature of change"
In response to Reply # 28


          

the discontent always drive upheaval (in the "be active" sense)

that said, there is value in wisdom (not repeating the same mistakes as those did before you)

but you don't learn that if you aren't willing to listen

likewise, as an elder, guiding and giving insight without choking off zeal is also a challenge (if you talk down, assume ignorance, or talk more than you listen - whatever wisdom you have won't work)

  

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MiracleRic
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129. "but my parents generation"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

did those things as well and learned that they are only a spark

they learned that idealism is literally a start

it's everything after that youth seem to lose interest in too often bc it requires a ton more than motivation

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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29. "I'm 42. The older I get, the more I "get it". I've seen a LOT of shit ch..."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

over the past 25 years that i've been "aware" of how fcked up society is. I've grown to understand that shit just takes time and concrete planning and action. I understand there's a process to everything. The way to get shit done is ever evolving. If you'd told me 20 years ago that screaming into an empty void would be enough to get an idiot voted into the presidency I would have told you FOH.... but here we are...

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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FLUIDJ
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30. "and to be clear...i'm not anti-youth. But these youngins in THIS video"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

were sent on a mission of failure and the people that sent them should be ashamed of themselves.
That's my honest take on it.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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48. "Yeah. I have mixed feeling about using kids like this"
In response to Reply # 30


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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26. "Feinstein needs to retire."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and go directly to the gulag.

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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40. "she will never retire..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

...she's going to fight for her corporate plutocracy till death




  

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legsdiamond
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42. "I’m sure Fox News enjoyed this as well."
In response to Reply # 0


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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44. "They die of a diminished earth like we all will "
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

They’ll just profit off of bunkers and false promises in the short term.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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FLUIDJ
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45. "^^the white elephant that's walking up the basement stairs^^"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          




"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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49. "your take is hot garbage."
In response to Reply # 0


          

#teamKids

  

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FLUIDJ
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50. "Help me to understand. Seems like there're 2 different discussions(at le..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

being had here.

Discussion 1:
These little kids came off hella entitled and naive about how the process works. It was cool to see them get schooled by an old head. Seeing youngins get schooled by old heads is never NOT entertaining.

Discussion 2:
These little kids are validly concerned about a very REAL and pressing issue and they should be given props and support so that they can keep up that energy.




"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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MEAT
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52. "3. Process in the face of crisis is dumb"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

Don’t tell me about the ways you’re building fire retardant buildings when my house is on fire

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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FLUIDJ
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54. "I've approached this post with each of them (3) being independent of the..."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

other.
Or at least I tried to.

I need to get back to this excel quandary now though....

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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59. "Do you really want to be as theatrically hysterical as those kids?"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

Cause here is the thing. How does the green bill put out the fire?




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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66. "How much of the science on climate change have you read?"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

Because you type like a man that’s severely underestimating what the planet is facing
Last year was the fourth hottest year on record
The last five hottest Septembers have been the hottest on record
Globally
To paint this as hysterics shows more you’re lack of understanding than anything and truly illustrates your initial blind spot.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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77. "*raises hand*"
In response to Reply # 66


          


I've not only read the science, I teach the science. I was making the case that we need immediate action twenty years ago. The problem has not been the progressives. (At least until now.)

You don't get immediate action by NOT taking action. And that's what this GND proposal does.

You type like a man who's privileged enough to think it's all a matter of political statements. The planet cares fuck-all about your political statements. Yes, we DO need to do something about this. Stunt bills with zero chance of ever affecting anything, are not a way to do something.

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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86. "Aggressive legislation and funding from the most litigious country"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

On the planet is quintessential action when it comes to America
A country that slowly moves culturally and who’s only masters have been white supremacy, capitalism, and laws that benefit the two former items.

What you’re advocating for is definitely correct, that I don’t disagree with.

But where I deviate from you is what “America” considers action, and action here is legislation, laws, and a slow cultural change without offending its two found principles that white men and money should always be on top.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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87. "Now I don't even know if you're talking about climate anymore."
In response to Reply # 86
Wed Feb-27-19 02:04 PM by stravinskian

          

Feels a lot like the Green New Deal bill.

But if the problem is that America CAN'T make the changes it needs to make, the answer is not to sit back and rant about how the change we can't make should be bigger! THAT is the profoundly impotent position of the new left.

For an optimist, the answer would be to work more to broaden people's understanding of how serious the problem is. Do what we can whenever we can, and work to build enough public consciousness that "what we can do" gets bigger over time.

But I think I'm with you: America gives us no reason to be optimistic on a point like this. Our world climate WILL drastically change. We set that in stone well over a decade ago. And we won't stop changing it until the effects become so massive that we can no longer fool ourselves into ignoring them.

Personally, I think we need to start thinking about geoengineering. That is, directly manipulating the upper atmosphere in ways that would weaken the greenhouse effect. It's a complicated and dangerous "solution" (if we can even call it that), but it's something that we'll be able to do *after* the damage is done, and I have no faith that anything serious will happen until well after the damage is done.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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89. "I'm genuinely curious about your scientific/professional points"
In response to Reply # 87


          


Can I ask what you do for a living?

Any recommendations on sources/links/whatever for someone that doesn't have a scientific background?


Also, to really sum up your opinion- your preferred option is Nuclear energy? Anything else?


Thanks

  

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stravinskian
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98. "I'm a mathematical physicist."
In response to Reply # 89
Wed Feb-27-19 02:56 PM by stravinskian

          

Astrophysicist more precisely, and a college professor.

>Any recommendations on sources/links/whatever for someone that
>doesn't have a scientific background?

I don't know that there's really even a source to follow nowadays. The science is totally, completely settled. All that goes on now is fretting over the fact that a certain political party is in the business of ignoring the science.

For a long time I followed this blog:

realclimate.org

It still appears to be pretty active. I liked it because it's run by working academic climate scientists who know the situation as well as anyone else in the world. It still appears to be run by the same people, so I can only assume it's as good a source as ever, at least with respect to what little is going on these days.

I was watching it around the time of the IPCC report and all the controversy over the "hockey stick graph." They explained it all and cleared away the misinformation better than anyone I'd ever seen.

>Also, to really sum up your opinion- your preferred option is
>Nuclear energy?

Not exactly. Nuclear is a necessary ingredient of anything I'd take seriously. If someone is reflexively against nuclear it's a strong cue that they aren't taking the problem seriously.

But nuclear alone won't be enough. You can calculate how much energy is available in wind and solar power (which are also crucial, BTW), and even optimistically, if you subtract that from optimistic projected usage levels and you want to turn the remainder of the gas, petroleum, and coal power to something carbon-free by, say, 2050, then you find that we'd need to open something like two nuclear power plants per year in the US to eventually fill that gap. We haven't built a single nuclear plant in decades, for reasons that are understandable even if irrational. So even if we fully jumped on the nuclear train, it wouldn't do the job.

Ten years ago, I would have argued for a MASSIVE PR campaign to get people to change their minds about nuclear, but that ship has sailed, for now.

That said, research in fusion, which has kind of been a joke in the past (the technology has been "ten years away and holding" for about 60 years now), really has been gaining some traction lately, despite complete neglect from government funding agencies. If sustained fusion ever does happen, it really could change everything.

>Anything else?

Wind and solar really are immensely important. But people often assume we've overcome their fundamental weakness (the sporadic and localized nature of the sun and wind), and we haven't. Wind power can work great *while* the wind is blowing, *if* you actually live in Iowa. Solar can work great *while* it's sunny, if you live in the desert. But apart from these somewhat restrictive conditions, these methods need an enormous amount of power transport, which dissipates a lot of the energy, and storage, which usually means large batteries, which usually means more dissipation as well as hard-to-find rare-earth materials and very serious local pollution.


To be honest, the question about "how to get our power" would have had to have been resolved fifteen years ago if we were gonna stop serious climate change. At this point, it IS happening, whether we like it or not. We need to spend more efforts now on mitigation strategies, preparing for the humanitarian crises to come, and as far as technology goes, we need to be working on geoengineering --- intentionally altering the climate *more* in the hopes of counteracting the damage that we've done. Ten years ago people were saying we shouldn't be talking about geoengineering because it would weaken people's understanding of the urgency of climate change. But that ship has sailed. People will not know the urgency until the world is drastically different. Now is the time to prepare for THAT.

  

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Stadiq
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101. "appreciate it"
In response to Reply # 98


          


Geoengineering sounds like some sci-fi shit, but you have piqued my interest.

Thanks


  

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stravinskian
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107. "It really is."
In response to Reply # 101


          

>
>Geoengineering sounds like some sci-fi shit,

And there's no reason to be confident that it'll work, or that we'd ever be able to afford it, or that it wouldn't lead to even worse consequences.

So we shouldn't let people pretend it would be a panacea. People have argued that it shouldn't even be considered, because it causes a "moral hazard" (in the economic sense) against more realistic climate action.

But if we're not carrying out any realistic climate action anyway, then this will be our next thing to try. ("Our," meaning, as a species. It's not a field that I personally work in, though I'd like to get into it.)

  

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MEAT
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90. "The GND Bill and whatever follows is the only substantive path forward"
In response to Reply # 87
Wed Feb-27-19 02:19 PM by MEAT

  

          

For America.
Is it the best? No
Will it immediately stop climate change? No
Will it even work? Depends on what work is.
What it will do is codify a set of actions and paths forward for a country that is horny for its legal system, in the most aggressive way that this country will allow
It won’t start a green revolution
It won’t kick start sweeping changes across the country
But at the very least
For America
It’ll say ... “the future of humanity is non negotiable, if you want to argue on how this could be more impactful then we’re all ears, but if your point is we need to be reasonable about what can pass ... then our point is it’s unreasonable to treat this as anything less than a crisis.”


I’m not arguing for the GND
I’m arguing against anyone that wants to appeal to political reality to discuss a crisis of existence. People that think they can comprise with science should be ridiculed. Negotiating to the “center” should be laughed out. The sun has no friends and takes no prisoners.

I don’t offer any solutions though. But with geoengineering, in this country it all comes down to tax incentives, government funding, and litigation to be able to even pursue that to scale.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Feb-27-19 05:49 PM

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108. "So why isn't the answer..."
In response to Reply # 90
Wed Feb-27-19 05:56 PM by stravinskian

          

So why isn't the answer for all of us to just jump in a spaceship and travel to a habitable planet somewhere else in the galaxy?

Why isn't that "the only way forward"?

It isn't the answer because it isn't realistic. It can't happen. It conflicts with basic verifiable facts.

Political reality is also reality.

>I’m not arguing for the GND
>I’m arguing against anyone that wants to appeal to political
>reality to discuss a crisis of existence. People that think
>they can comprise with science should be ridiculed.

But the Green New Deal compromises with science. The Green New Deal envisions a carbon-free economy without nuclear power. That would be great, for a number of reasons, but the science very clearly shows that that isn't possible. There just isn't enough energy available in solar and wind to replace even our current energy usage.

>Negotiating to the “center” should be laughed out. The sun
>has no friends and takes no prisoners.

But negotiating with NOBODY is a lot worse than negotiating with the other side. I mean, yeah, personally I think we're beyond negotiation at all. But the GND pretends that a bill that simply will never become law is somehow a solution to an existential problem. It's a sham to make people feel better about a situation that is actually a hell of a lot darker than even the left wants to admit.

  

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MEAT
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109. "Because you’d need a gateway to fully fund a science program"
In response to Reply # 108
Wed Feb-27-19 06:10 PM by MEAT

  

          

that would do space colonization
Which would only come through legislation and study.
Like what was the last major innovation that this country attempted?
SpaceX? But even that is most private enterprise.

Like I totally get what you’re saying. But the only avenue to expand the audience of what you’re proposing is legislation. America doesn’t do visionary or bold ideas. And private industry simply can’t afford to systematically take on the challenge to scale.

Otherwise it’s just scientists talking to the rest of the globe in conferences and paper and some grant funded research.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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stravinskian
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Wed Feb-27-19 06:57 PM

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111. "I'm not trying to say we should go with the spaceship plan."
In response to Reply # 109


          

My whole point, in fact, is that no matter how much money, time, and research we put into it, it would never work. The universe just doesn't operate that way.

I think people are overlooking the fact that the GND is doomed to the same kind of failure. The reasons are partly political (or, more to the point, constitutional), but that doesn't make them any less true.

I'm not trying to argue, but I honestly don't know whether you're saying legislation is a good thing or a bad thing. I agree that legislation is the only thing the Congress can do. But legislation that doesn't become law doesn't do anything for the climate.

  

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MEAT
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112. "I don't know what would work. I trust people like you to develop those"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

plans

I don't know what "work" would look like or what "work" is in this scenario.

I'm not advocating for the GND on its merits. I am advocating for it as the only vehicle to get TO a fix based on what America is as a country.




------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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95. "By hysteria I am referring to you and the kids rhetoric and not substanc..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

That's why I ask the substantive question in my last post, which you did not answer.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Wed Feb-27-19 02:44 PM

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96. "Again. By saying that end of sustainable existence realities are hysteri..."
In response to Reply # 95
Wed Feb-27-19 02:44 PM by MEAT

  

          

You either display a lack of knowledge of the scenarios of which you’re discussing
Or an unearned arrogance in your mortality.
But do you.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:29 PM

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65. "don't throw water on a grease chicken grease fire"
In response to Reply # 52
Wed Feb-27-19 12:38 PM by Selah

          

>Don’t tell me about the ways you’re building fire
>retardant buildings when my house is on fire

and if I see you about to do that, should I not say, "wait"?

i get what you are saying (at least i think i do. paraphrase - if someone is hungry, feed them and then show them how to get food. educating is different than - and not necessarily exclusive to - filling a need)

in the video she started off well enough when she said there were problems with one version and she had an alternate

but then she jumped off the rails

she didn't listen

she didn't point out how the WHAT they trying to fix is a legitimate thing

she tried to explain compromise, but didn't fully explain how a small gain is better than none

when the kid said "you can still vote yes" she wasn't as emphatic in her "maybe I will" (WHY NOT? why is yours better)

with all this wrangling about a photo-op gone wrong and the subsequent talkety-talk (or typedy-type) the question is: when all that is said and done has either party in the discussion learned anything (as opposed to being more entrenched in the position they already had and playing the "my way or nothing" gambit) or is the issue any closer to being fixed <---- to me, THAT is what matters most

not whose side are we on, or who got schooled/owned/destroyed

  

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MEAT
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:37 PM

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67. "Her process is dumb and it’s a shitty starting point."
In response to Reply # 65
Wed Feb-27-19 12:37 PM by MEAT

  

          

She SHOULD be lambasted
Particularly when her party is the only one even offering a solution
And she’s publically and on the back end negotiating to the “center” of a global crisis.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:40 PM

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69. "agreed (this seems to be what you want)"
In response to Reply # 67
Wed Feb-27-19 12:43 PM by Selah

          

but the question I have is: are you gonna just keep repeating that point?

she very much could have done better

i was trying to suggest how/why and a BIGGER picture but your responses don't seem to have interest in that

is that off?

  

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MEAT
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:44 PM

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71. "To these folks? Yes. "
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

Because they’re discussing a crisis of human existence as hyperbole
And so any discussion with them isn’t even rooted in the same set of facts
There’s no point in discussing with them the context of the kids or the senator if they fundamentally don’t believe that the kids have a legitimate point.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Selah
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76. "we gotta be careful to not become the thing we hate"
In response to Reply # 71
Wed Feb-27-19 01:19 PM by Selah

          

everything you typed could be the basis for "them" dismissing a conversation with your side

putting words in peoples mouth, and deciding you know what they think and how they feel is exactly how we got here

(ps - also, I guess I somewhere got lumped with "these folk" because I was referring to your responses to ME also)

  

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MEAT
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80. "I’m a me. I’m not a we. I dont have a side. "
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

So if you or anyone else wants to discuss optics or politics in the face of a crisis of survival for the human race, a majority of animals, sea life, and vegetation ... please know where I stand on that.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Selah
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84. "Duly noted. Good luck with that"
In response to Reply # 80


          

*finger guns*

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:17 PM

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53. "RE: discussion 2, see Greta Thunberg"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

...and a child will lead them, LOL...

Seriously, this is a worldwide threat, and we shouldn't just view it through the context of the US

if these kids are entitled, are other children activists worldwide entitled too...?

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-fifteen-year-old-climate-activist-who-is-demanding-a-new-kind-of-politics

The Fifteen-Year-Old Climate Activist Who Is Demanding a New Kind of Politics

By Masha GessenOctober 2, 2018

Greta Thunberg’s protest outside of Sweden’s parliament building has made climate change a topic of that country’s daily conversation.Photograph by Anders Hellberg
Sometimes the world makes so little sense that the only thing to do is engage in civil disobedience—even in a country as attached to its rules and regulations as Sweden is. Fifteen-year-old Greta Thunberg has been protesting for more than a month. Before the country’s parliamentary election on September 9th, she went on strike and sat on the steps of the parliament building, in Stockholm, every day during school hours for three weeks. Since the election, she has returned to school for four days a week; she now spends her Fridays on the steps of parliament. She is demanding that the government undertake a radical response to climate change. She told me that a number of members of parliament have come out to the steps to express support for her position, although every one of them has said that she should really be at school. Her parents think so, too, she said—that she should really go to school, though she is right to protest.

Thunberg’s parents are Svante Thunberg, an actor, and Malena Ernman, a very well-known opera singer. Ernman has published a book in which she described her family’s struggle with her two daughters’ special needs: both Greta and her younger sister, Beata, have been diagnosed with autism, A.D.H.D., and other conditions. In part because of her mother’s fame and the publicity that surrounded the publication of her book, Greta’s protest serves a dual purpose. It not only calls attention to climate policy, as she intended, but it also showcases the political potential of neurological difference. “I see the world a bit different, from another perspective,” she explained to me, in English. “I have a special interest. It’s very common that people on the autism spectrum have a special interest.”

Thunberg developed her special interest in climate change when she was nine years old and in the third grade. “They were always talking about how we should turn off lights, save water, not throw out food,” she told me. “I asked why and they explained about climate change. And I thought this was very strange. If humans could really change the climate, everyone would be talking about it and people wouldn’t be talking about anything else. But this wasn’t happening.” Turnberg has an uncanny ability to concentrate, which she also attributes to her autism. “I can do the same thing for hours,” she said. Or, as it turns out, for years. She began researching climate change and has stayed on the topic for six years. She has stopped eating meat and buying anything that is not absolutely necessary. In 2015, she stopped flying on airplanes, and a year later, her mother followed suit, giving up an international performing career. The family has installed solar batteries and has started growing their own vegetables on an allotment outside the city. To meet me in central Stockholm, Thunberg and her father rode their bikes for about half an hour; the family has an electric car that they use only when necessary.

Sweden prides itself on having some of the most progressive climate legislation in the world: policies adopted over the last couple of years aim to make Sweden “the first fossil-free welfare state in the world.” But there was relatively little discussion of climate policy in the lead-up to the September election, even after Sweden was hit with an unprecedented heat wave and catastrophic fires in July. Karin Bäckstrand, a climate-policy researcher at Stockholm University, told me that climate policy wasn’t an election issue precisely because a broad national consensus exists. “Everyone except the Swedish Democrats agree that we should become fossil-free,” she said.

Thunberg calls bullshit on the consensus. In our conversation, she pointed out that, despite Sweden’s progressive legislation and the scientific consensus that rich countries must cut their emissions by fifteen per cent a year, in Sweden actual emissions had gone up 3.6 per cent in the first quarter of this year. She has written a piece called “Sweden is not a role model,” in which she points out that even the best-laid plans to address climate change make no attempt to look beyond the year 2050. “By then I will, in the best case, not even have lived half my life,” she wrote. “What happens next?”

It’s true that emissions have risen this year, Bäckstrand said, because Sweden is experiencing an economic boom. On the other hand, the country has cut its emissions by twenty-six per cent since 1990, even while its economy has grown. In just ten years, Sweden has increased its use of renewable sources of energy by twelve per cent. The country is building the world’s first fossil-free steel plants. (To put this in context, Bäckstrand noted that she had just returned from San Francisco, where more than twenty thousand people, including the representatives of dozens of national governments, attended the Global Climate Action Summit, but no one from the Trump Administration attended; “Trump didn’t even tweet about it!” Bäckstrand said. Bäckstrand added that Thunberg’s “voice is needed, because until the fires and the drought, climate change was priority number eight for Swedes. She is arguing that it should be at the top, and she is right.” Thunberg’s strike has received extensive coverage in Sweden; for the time being, she is a household name, and climate change is a topic of daily conversation.

Thunberg’s is a voice of unaccommodating clarity that reminds me of Soviet-era dissidents. I suspect that some of them were also on the spectrum, which in their case meant acting irrationally in the framework of the Soviet system—risking their lives to make the doomed demand that the country act in accordance with its written laws and declared ideals. Thunberg smiled in recognition when I told her this. “I can become very angry when I see things that are wrong,” she said. On a recent class trip to a museum exhibit on climate change, for example, she noticed that some figures in the show—statistics on the carbon footprint of meat production, for example—were wrong. “I became very angry, but I’m quiet, so I just went to the exit and sat there by the doors. I didn’t say anything until people asked me.” In general she prefers action to conversation. In undertaking her school strike, she was inspired by the protests staged by American high-school students in response to the Parkland shooting this year—Thunberg’s sit-in is also a walkout.

When Thunberg is at her now-famous post outside of parliament, people come by to talk to her and bring her food. This has had an unexpected effect: Thunberg, who generally eats the same things every day, has tried new food. She surprised herself by doing this, and by finding that she likes falafel and noodles.

VIDEO FROM THE NEW YORKER
The Flames Engulfing California

In the weeks since the election, the Swedish political conversation has centered on topics far from climate change: the main centrist parties finished in a dead heat, making a far-right party, the Swedish Democrats, which came in third, a potential power broker. Formerly rote procedures such as choosing the speaker of parliament and appointing cabinet members have come to overshadow any policy discussion. Thunberg is peculiarly uninterested in this, though. “I think the election didn’t matter,” she told me. “The climate is not going to collapse because some party got the most votes. The politics that’s needed to prevent the climate catastrophe—it doesn’t exist today. We need to change the system, as if we were in crisis, as if there were a war going on.”

---------------------------------------------------------------

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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55. "RE: discussion 2, see Lake Erie Bill of Rights"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

We're getting to the point where lawsuits for inaction are being validated

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/2/26/18241904/lake-erie-legal-rights-personhood-nature-environment-toledo-ohio

Lake Erie just won the same legal rights as people
Ohio voters passed groundbreaking legislation that allows citizens to sue on behalf of the lake when it’s being polluted.
By Sigal Samuel Updated Feb 26, 2019, 11:00pm EST
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An Ohio resident collects water from Lake Erie in 2014 after a ban due to algae-related toxins. Getty Images
Future Perfect
Finding the best ways to do good. Made possible by The Rockefeller Foundation.

It started in a pub. A handful of people, hunched over beers in Toledo, Ohio, were talking about a water crisis that had plagued the city in 2014. The pollution of Lake Erie had gotten so bad that it had taken a serious toll on their lives. The government, they felt, wasn’t doing enough to protect the lake. And so they wondered: What if the lake could protect itself?

The idea they hatched that night ultimately resulted in a special election, which had the citizens of Toledo voting Tuesday on a very unusual question: Should Lake Erie be granted the legal rights normally reserved for a person?

The measure passed easily, which means citizens will be able to sue on behalf of the lake whenever its right to flourish is being contravened — that is, whenever it’s in danger of major environmental harm.

“There’s a lot of nervous energy,” Tish O’Dell, who was at the pub that fateful night, told me while traveling between different polling places in Toledo on Tuesday morning. She was on tenterhooks as she waited for the election results. “It’s like torture.”

If the stakes felt almost unbearably high for the activists who pushed for the Lake Erie Bill of Rights, it’s because this was the first rights-based legislation aimed at protecting a whole US ecosystem: the lake, its tributaries, and the many species that live off it.

The law isn’t without precedent, though. It’s part of the nascent rights of nature movement, which has notched several victories in the past dozen years. Rivers and forests have already won legal rights in countries like Ecuador, Colombia, India, and New Zealand.

Activists in the movement often argue that the environment is the next frontier in humanity’s expanding moral circle: over the centuries, we’ve extended rights to more and more beings, so why shouldn’t nature itself be next?


They reject the conventional Western way of relating to nature — as property that is ours for the taking, as an object rather than a subject — but they recognize they’re going to have to work within the existing Western legal system if they want that to change. They’re betting that the best strategy for protecting the environment is to stretch our society’s understanding of what counts as a person. It’s a bold bet, but with climate change decimating the planet at such a ferocious rate, it might be the kind of innovative thinking we need.

How the rights of nature idea took off
In 1972, the case of Sierra Club v. Morton came before the US Supreme Court, leading to a deliberation over whether nature should have its own rights. The Court decided the answer was no, but Justice William O. Douglas dissented. “Contemporary public concern for protecting nature’s ecological equilibrium,” he wrote, “should lead to the conferral of standing upon environmental objects to sue for their own preservation.”

That same year, law professor Christopher Stone made a splash with an article titled “Should trees have standing?” It catalyzed other academics to write a slew of articles and books considering whether natural environments ought to have rights enshrined in law.

In 2006, that question left the ether of academia and came to bear directly on toxic sewage sludge, which had been dumped in Tamaqua, Pennsylvania. Residents fought for — and won — the first-ever rights of nature law in the world. Two years later, Ecuador became the first country to enshrine the rights of nature in its constitution, thanks in large part to the work of indigenous activists.

Since then, the victories have come fast and furious. In 2014, New Zealand recognized the legal rights of the Te Urewera forest. In 2017, Colombia granted rights to the Rio Atrato river and India recognized the Ganges and Yamuna rivers as legal persons. In 2018, the Amazon rainforest got its own rights, and for the first time, so did a specific plant species: the wild rice known as manoomin, one of the Anishinaabe people’s staple crops.

Granting the status of personhood to a natural environment may seem like a bizarre legal fiction, but it’s no more bizarre than the idea that corporations should enjoy that same status, which has been with us since the 1880s.

If we find it strange to view nature the way we view people, that may just be because we’ve grown up in an anthropocentric intellectual tradition that treats the natural world as an object to be examined and exploited for human use, rather than as a subject to be communed with and respected.

“The idea that we can be separate from nature is really a Western reductionist way of looking at the world — we can trace it back to Francis Bacon and the scientific method,” said Ben Price, the national director for the Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund, a nonprofit public interest law firm that helps people facing threats to their local environment.

Price told me that just as women’s suffrage or the abolition of slavery were once unthinkable but gradually became accepted and normalized, the rights of nature idea seems wacky now but will eventually gain social currency. “For the rights of nature to be understood and become something we’re comfortable with is going require a paradigm shift, just like the end of slavery did,” he said.

That paradigm shift may entail nothing less than a total rejection of capitalism, according to Eduardo Guydas, the executive secretary of the Latin American Center for Social Ecology in Uruguay. He argues that attempts to reduce environmental devastation while staying within a capitalism framework won’t be enough to address the climate crisis.

“The debate around the rights of nature is one of the most active frontlines in the fight for a non-market-based point of view,” Guydas told me. “It’s a reaction against our society’s commodification of everything.”

Will this legal strategy be effective?
The rights of nature movement has inspired new legislation around the world, but because it’s still in its infancy, we don’t yet have evidence about how much of a practical difference those laws will really make.

Ecuador, however, offers one example of concrete change. After the country enshrined the rights of nature in its constitution, locals have brought lawsuits against companies they say are causing serious environmental harm. In one recent case, people sued on behalf of a river that was being polluted in the course of a construction project. The court ruled in the river’s favor.

That outcome is inspiring to people like O’Dell in Toledo. And now that Lake Erie has joined the ranks of natural environments with legal rights, the activists in the rights of nature movement are buoyed at the prospect of what comes next.

“There are many different effects we hope for,” O’Dell said. “One is education — that you open people’s eyes to this possibility. Two is to give notice to those doing the environmental harm that we’re not going to tolerate this anymore. Three is the hope that other people will follow you on the path you’ve started to clear.”

To Price, that last hope rises to the level of an existential need, given the pace of climate change. “We’re seeing the results of our narrow-mindedness, of our belief that nature is property and property ownership is the highest right,” he said. “The hope is that by beginning somewhere, like Toledo, the conversation enlarges. You never know what’s going to be the tipping point.”

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:21 PM

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56. "by "entitled" I simply mean believing that something is "owed" to you"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

or is a "given" simply because you believe it's "right" (in general, irrespective of the current subject matter at hand)



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:23 PM

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58. "Dude, the ages in that room were 7-17"
In response to Reply # 56
Wed Feb-27-19 12:24 PM by bentagain

  

          

What else can they do?

Like I said, there are lawsuits being brought forward for the in action

You think they're entitled because they don't want to die?

WTF

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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60. "I feel like your standard for kids is too low. "
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

>What else can they do?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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bentagain
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:25 PM

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61. "Was that an answer?"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

Other than petition, protest, try to reduce their individual carbon footprints, etc...

What else can they do within a political system that doesn't allow them to participate because of their age?

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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FLUIDJ
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:26 PM

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62. "thus Discussion Path #1. Kids gotta learn early. "
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

Entitlement is recurring learning subject in our home with our kids.


I think your article links relate to Discussion Path #2. I have no issue at all with those and agree wholeheartedly.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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FLUIDJ
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:27 PM

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63. "no, I defined entitlement and it =/= not wanting to die "
In response to Reply # 58


  

          


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Marauder21
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75. "I feel like I understand you better after the above post breaking"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

down the 2 arguments. I appreciate you taking the time to do that.

Shouldn't kids feel like they have the right to demand things of their elected representatives, though? They're public servants. That doesn't mean show up in their office and start breaking shit and acting wild, but if you get to meet with them and you have questions and you don't feel they're taking you seriously . . . what should they do?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Mynoriti
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81. "They've already done more than most adults."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

how many people in here have confronted a senator, or even a Rep on an issue they care about?

shit, i've never called/written/emailed a member of congress about anything.

i vote and I complain about shit.

they're naive kids because... they're kids, but entitled is a weird thing to call them imo.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Feb-27-19 01:37 PM

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83. "Entitled is absolutely the wrong word"
In response to Reply # 81


          

Maybe naive to think they will change her mind by confronting her but they are far from entitled.

That word has been hijacked by the right and now wanting shit you SHOULD get... in this case ACTION is probably what they want and somehow it’s being called entitled?

Then again, Fluid used to say marching doesn’t work but then I think he saw it with his own eyes and finally got it.

Ionno. I think some OKP’s are old and defeated.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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FLUIDJ
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92. "i'll concede it's the wrong word...."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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94. "Nope. They were entitled. "
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

They seemed totally unequiped and unprepared to handle the words "no" or "I don't agree with you". All they were brought there to do was look cute and say "we are going to die!".

If they were more than entitled props they would have spent some time listening and engage with what she was saying. For example, I was dying for someone to ask, what's the difference between your bill and the original one?

This shit is the kids bop version of serious discussion where white smiling cute kids was more important than the substance.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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bentagain
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Wed Feb-27-19 02:50 PM

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97. "RE: white kids"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

oh, so you didn't watch all of the videos

3rd video, clearly not white

also, they ask her to explain the differences in the GND and her proposal

she tells them to read her proposal

You doing the most.

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legsdiamond
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102. "He’s extremely conservative"
In response to Reply # 97


          

and I’m not going to act like I’m the most progressive cat on here but there is something wrong about taking joy out of this exchange.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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104. "LOL. It what world would I be considered extremely conservative?"
In response to Reply # 102
Wed Feb-27-19 05:09 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

I mean maybe at the new black panther meeting, but it terms of the rest of this big country, I'd fall somewhere in the middle of the pack of most grown ass folks, raising kids and trying to pay my mortgage.

If I am extremely conservative I guess Obama is extremely conservative.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
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106. "Within OKP political discussions... "
In response to Reply # 104


          

I’m not the most progressive either

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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MEAT
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Thu Feb-28-19 09:34 AM

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113. "Fox & Friends attacks the Sunrise Movement for "using the children" to f..."
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2019/02/28/fox-friends-attacks-sunrise-movement-using-children-fight-climate-change/222994

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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Mynoriti
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103. "they were more respectful to her than she was to them"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

she *tried* to appear gracious and patient, but it was clear she just wanted to tell them to get real and get on.

talking about did YOU just win an election? and snarky comments to that girl that maybe she should run for senate since she knows so much.

if anything Diane came off as the entitled one.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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FLUIDJ
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82. "I try fam, I try. I know I be all over the place sometimes too...."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

>down the 2 arguments. I appreciate you taking the time to do
>that.
>
>Shouldn't kids feel like they have the right to demand things
>of their elected representatives, though? They're public
>servants. That doesn't mean show up in their office and start
>breaking shit and acting wild, but if you get to meet with
>them and you have questions and you don't feel they're taking
>you seriously . . . what should they do?

Oh hells yeah! Def. for them understanding their rights and voicing their desires...but also knowing that the end result might not necessarily be what their requesting.




"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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falafel stand pimpin
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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64. "yooo... That kid snapping back about the military budget"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Was born ready

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Feb-27-19 12:49 PM

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72. "Feinstein was 100% right in that exchange,"
In response to Reply # 0


          

both in the full exchange and in the James O'Keefe-style edited video.

BTW, it's funny how progressives had such an easy time understanding what James O'Keefe was doing in his chopped-up context-free viral videos. But then we can fall for the same thing hook line and sinker when someone claims to be doing it in the name of their naive understanding of progressive strategy. Do you REALLY think she was telling that kid that her opinion didn't matter if she didn't vote for her? Really, do you think that? That makes logical sense to you?

I'm sure people won't be surprised by my support for Feinstein, or my disgust at these unserious, counterproductive, false environmentalists (even putting aside the fact that they sent in children to serve as pawns in their delusional game).

But there is no issue that's more important than climate change. On that I can agree with the Sunrise idiots and with Senator Feinstein. Back when we had right wingers around here I argued that point in threads over 1000 posts deep.

Given that we all agree that there's no issue more important than climate change, it would be nice if we could actually try to address it. A first step would be to focus on bills that DON'T explicitly rule out the most effective and efficient carbon-free technology of all, nuclear power, which all quantitative estimates agree is a necessary element of any carbon-free economy that we could have within the coming decades. We could focus on bills that don't precondition climate action on totally unrelated issues like Medicare for all, free tuition, or universal basic income (all of which are important, but bundling then together will only make action LESS possible). And it would be nice if we could focus on the persuasion that REALLY needs to be done. No bill will EVER become law until someone convinces RED STATE voters that the problem is real.

If these people actually cared about fixing the climate crisis they'd be touring Ohio, Tennessee, West Virginia, Kentucky, Oklahoma, ..., bringing those voters and senators around to the understanding that the issue is real and we need to do something.

Instead, the left is turning into a martyrdom cult. To these idiots, the fact that the GND is impossible is a feature, not a big.

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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130. "all of the this"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Mynoriti
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74. "Nah she still looked like a dick"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

She tried, but she could barely hide that she wanted to tell them how they're little little ass kids who don't know anything and do you know who the fuck i am? fuckouttahere

she wasn't necessarily wrong, but I'd just think someone who's been in public service for a century would be better at things like this.

big ups to those kids.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Teknontheou
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78. "I'm watching it now. When she tells the girl "...and you can take that....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I thought she was going to say "...to the bank." I think she was going to say that and then caught herself.

All in all, she was definitely annoyed and she peeped what they were trying to do (use the cuteness and youth of the kids to either force her to verbally acquiesce or else make her look bad). She handled it really well - sort of how I would expect a veteran middle school vice principal to handle it. If you didn't know any better you'd think she dealt with out-of-line children every day.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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79. "The only way she would look "good" is if she agreed with them"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-27-19 01:33 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

  

          

But she didn't agree with them. She told a bunch of kids no. So she looked "bad".

I am fine with how she handled it. She told them her issues with the proposed bill, what she thought of the political state of play, and presented her alternative bill. She didn't bow to the pressure of the cute kids

Anything short of a pep rally for the kids would would be considered a fire-able offense in some people's eyes

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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146. "^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

We've seen dozen of Politician ambushes and they almost always go badly unless you agree with them. For someone to disagree with them and not look terrible is the work of master politician.

I mean she still old but I can see why she still has her seat.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Mynoriti
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150. "nah that's bullshit"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

she didn't *have* to talk about how many people voted for her, or go call that girl out on being too young to vote for her, or tell the older girl maybe you should run if you know so much about it, or go at the group like "you know what your problem is?"

I think she saw these kids (as the OP did) as representative of people like AOC and this younger generation who think they have the answers, while people like her who have put in work for decades are being brushed off, and she felt the need to clap back a bit. It's a completely understandable reaction, she wasn't wrong about anything she said, or by trying to explain her reasons, but that doesn't mean she wasn't being a dick. if she simply managed to be less defensive and condescending, no one would be talking about this.


>But she didn't agree with them. She told a bunch of kids no.
>So she looked "bad".
>
>I am fine with how she handled it. She told them her issues
>with the proposed bill, what she thought of the political
>state of play, and presented her alternative bill. She didn't
>bow to the pressure of the cute kids
>
>Anything short of a pep rally for the kids would would be
>considered a fire-able offense in some people's eyes
>
>

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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85. "BTW, the recent trend of so and so owning so and so...is some bullshit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that never results in advancing the issue

I see fox news...so and so owns libtards...has become part of your vernacular

Very dangerous

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Mynoriti
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88. "Feinstein DESTROYS preteen tree hugging CUCKS"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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99. "^^^ terrible trend on youtube"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

  

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Mynoriti
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105. "watch an occasional Rogan clip and your algorithm is fucked"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

you get littered with Shapiro and Peterson DESTROYING libs

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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114. "I want to SHOVE Shapiro in a LOCKER "
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

>you get littered with Shapiro and Peterson DESTROYING libs

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Thu Feb-28-19 10:35 AM

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119. "The Alex Jones appearance on JRE made real waves in his fanbase"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

  

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Mynoriti
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135. "Lol he was on again yesterday "
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

I saw a clip of him going full WWE

I think his connection to Peterson is what's shaping the algorithm the most

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Marauder21
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91. "Did "owns" come back recently?"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

I remember that and "pwn" becoming big online in the early aughts, seemed like it went away for awhile. But now it's back, and apparently just part of the political discourse?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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bentagain
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Wed Feb-27-19 02:32 PM

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93. "RE: Did "owns" come back recently?"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

https://www.google.com/search?q=ben+shapiro+owns&rlz=1C1LENP_enUS693US693&oq=ben+shapiro+owns&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2503j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Brew
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Thu Feb-28-19 10:39 AM

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120. "Yes definitely."
In response to Reply # 91


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Eric B Is Prez
Member since Nov 08th 2005
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Wed Feb-27-19 03:33 PM

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100. "Absolutely"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

The vernacular reduces all debate or dialogue to two extremes- the winner and the loser. As if that's the point of political discussions. Nobody actually cares about learning or persuading any more. It's just about humiliation and notching a W for your side. It's simplistic and it's fucking sad.

And now major media outlets are writing this into headlines. They're making it worse.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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110. "fuck thems kids (c)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu Feb-28-19 10:11 AM

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115. "Fuck their future. "
In response to Reply # 110


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Feb-28-19 10:15 AM

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116. "I think those kids represent why the future is fucked. "
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

I think I bring into this convo working with a lot of Millenials and what drives me crazy about them is that they don't listen, think they have it all figured out and totally discount the value of experience and life learned wisdom.

The kids have to set the agenda for the future but they can get the best results and execute better when they leverage the wisdom of people who came before them who have been trying to get shit done before them.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu Feb-28-19 10:27 AM

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118. "Nah. Not even close."
In response to Reply # 116


          


Future is fucked for a lot of reasons- white supremacy,
worshipping money/jobs over all else, poor education, GOP,
social media, Dems like Feinstein, the NRA, etc.

You ever confront an official over something at that age?

Hell now?

You’re doing too much in here- why not call your rep
About something important to you instead?

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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"I didn't say that the future is fucked BECAUSE of these kids. "


  

          

It's an important distinction.

They've inherited a fucked up situation. But this ain't going to solve it.

Listen it's great that they are engaged and I wouldn't expect that they know how to deal with a politician.

But if the take home for these kids isn't "Damn I need to get my shit tighter, listen and learn about how things get done from someone who has done it", but rather "fuck this old lady, she should have said what I wanted to hear" then it was all for naught.







**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Feb-28-19 10:41 AM

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121. ""Kids" have, literally, always been like this."
In response to Reply # 116
Thu Feb-28-19 10:48 AM by Brew

          

And old people have always been like *this*. "Oh the kids never listen, we're fucked, they think they have all the answers ..." etc.

And round and round it goes.

Pointing out the perpetual disconnect between the older generation and the newer generation is as old as time. And doesn't accomplish anything or move the needle.

If anything, like Stadiq already pointed out, we should be encouraging and applauding the shit out of this type of engagement at such a young age. To discourage these kids is to create another generation of disengaged, uneducated MAGA voters who feel ignored and neglected and who vote for "outsiders" like Donald fucking Trump.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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124. "I agree it's nothing new but you are making my point"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

If it's always been like this and will always be like this, and we are headed on a path of destruction, then we are fucked no?


It seems like the only way we will not be fcuked is if these kids learn to be better than us and break the cycle. Like I said before, glad to see these kids engaged I hope they get the right lesson from this.






>And old people have always been like *this*. "Oh the kids
>never listen, we're fucked, they think they have all the
>answers ..." etc.
>
>And round and round it goes.
>
>Pointing out the perpetual disconnect between the older
>generation and the newer generation is as old as time. And
>doesn't accomplish anything or move the needle.
>
>If anything, like Stadiq already pointed out, we should be
>encouraging and applauding the shit out of this type of
>engagement at such a young age. To discourage these kids is to
>create another generation of disengaged, uneducated MAGA
>voters who feel ignored and neglected and who vote for
>"outsiders" like Donald fucking Trump.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Brew
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Thu Feb-28-19 11:17 AM

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126. "."
In response to Reply # 124
Thu Feb-28-19 11:18 AM by Brew

          

.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu Feb-28-19 12:07 PM

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127. "You looking terrible in here fam. "
In response to Reply # 124


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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134. "Dude if I was concerned about looking terrible to yall folks...."
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

I'd have ghosted this place a long time ago.

Not a thing I spend alot of time worrying about.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Marauder21
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122. "None of the kids in this video are "millenials""
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

And you're doing the least listening of anyone in this post. And now you're blaming the kids for the future being fucked?

They're growing up in a world offering them the constant threat of being gunned down in class, income inequality that hasn't been seen since before the Depression, careers where they'll be lucky if they don't have to have two part-time gigs on the side, a war in Afghanistan that's been going on their entire lives and will still be here when they're 18 and a planet that's becoming less hospitable every year (and that's for the white kids in this group who won't have to deal with anything else on top of all of that.)

But some kids being less than 100% deferential to an elected official is why you're losing hope for the future?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Brew
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123. "Facts."
In response to Reply # 122


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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125. "Yeah I never called these kids Millennials. "
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

I mention Millenials because I see a lot of their worst traits in these kids which makes me think they will inherit a lot of their worst traits.

And again, as I stated in the other post, I never said they are the cause for the future being fucked.






>And you're doing the least listening of anyone in this post.
>And now you're blaming the kids for the future being fucked?
>
>They're growing up in a world offering them the constant
>threat of being gunned down in class, income inequality that
>hasn't been seen since before the Depression, careers where
>they'll be lucky if they don't have to have two part-time gigs
>on the side, a war in Afghanistan that's been going on their
>entire lives and will still be here when they're 18 and a
>planet that's becoming less hospitable every year (and that's
>for the white kids in this group who won't have to deal with
>anything else on top of all of that.)
>
>But some kids being less than 100% deferential to an elected
>official is why you're losing hope for the future?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Thu Feb-28-19 01:54 PM

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142. "Some of the same attacks that were levied against the Parkland survivors"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

Seriously man, your replies and OP read like cut and paste from Fox News and the right

"The #NeverAgain kids were too idealistic to know better."

“crisis actor”

"The NRA characterized the student protesters as mindless pawns"

You think this generation is lost...I think adults that would take that angle IRT children are the ones that lost.

Folks want to debate the merit of the GND, cool

Off top dismissing children attempting to engage in the process, shameful

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/fl-op-column-fred-grimm-unwarranted-criticism-of-parkland-survivors-20180329-story.html

Far right attacks Parkland gun control activists with smears, lies and doctored photos | Fred Grimm

David Hogg, one of the most outspoken survivors of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting, is pushing back against Laura Ingraham’s taunts.


Fred Grimm Fred Grimm
Columnist
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Measure the effectiveness of the Parkland kids by the very viciousness of the response. By the attacks they’ve endured these last few weeks, lowdown and steeped in mendacity.

Consider the denigration of Emma González, @Emma4Change, the Marjory Stoneman Douglas massacre survivor who delivered that wrenching speech at the March for Our Lives. Standing before that giant crowd in Washington, Emma named the Parkland murder victims, then stood silent, stoic, until she had been on stage for six minutes and 20 seconds — the very amount of time Nikolas Cruz took to wreak his horror.

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The gun nuts and right-wing crazies had no rebuttal to that epoch of silence. The power of it. No wonder they’ve reacted like cornered animals.

“Six minutes and about 20 seconds. In a little over six minutes, 17 of our friends were taken from us, 15 were injured, and everyone, absolutely everyone, was forever altered,” she said. “Everyone who was there understands. Everyone who has been touched by the cold grip of gun violence understands.”

Then those moments of quiet. With a seismic shift in the body politic. As if America was finally awaking from its languorous resignation.

@Emma4Change and the children who marched through the city streets last weekend simply refused to accept their parents’ defeatist assumption that even a 75 percent majority in want of stricter firearm legislation (according to an NPR poll released last week) was impotent against the wishes of an all-powerful gun lobby.

The #NeverAgain kids were too idealistic to know better.

Laura Ingraham apologizes, David Hogg says no thanks, and readers split on efficacy of advertiser boycotts
So, of course, the gunslingers panicked. They’ve gone after the Marjory Stoneman Douglas survivors like a frenzied mob. They’ve slandered, belittled and taunted Emma in particular with such malicious fervor that the crimes of the actual Valentine’s Day killer have been relegated to an afterthought.

An alt-right website filched a GIF from Teen Vogue showing González ripping apart a gun range target. The image was photoshopped to make it appear, instead, that she was desecrating the U.S. Constitution. The deceit didn’t stop there. Her nose was widened on the doctored GIF. The skin around her eyes was darkened. Teen Vogue editor Phillip Picardi described the artifice as “proof of how democracy continues to be fractured by people who manipulate and fabricate the truth.”

The deception spread like a virus through far-right websites, desperate to obscure the truths these kids were spreading.

Meanwhile, the Cuban flag patch on the jacket Emma wore during her Washington appearance was described by Iowa Congressman Steve King as proof of her allegiance to the Castro regime — an absurd notion in South Florida, where anti-Castro exiles proudly display the flag of the old country. Meanwhile, a Republican candidate for the Maine Legislature attacked Emma on social media, saying, “There’s nothing about this skinhead lesbian that impresses me.”

Fellow survivor David Hogg, perhaps the most vocal leader of the #NeverAgain movement, has been slandered on the Internet as a gun-seizing Nazi, “Hogg Hitler,” and as a “crisis actor” who had graduated from a California high school in 2014.

ADVERTISING

Fox news host Laura Ingraham gleefully mocked Hogg after his college admission applications had been rejected by some highly selective schools in California. She tweeted, “David Hogg rejected by four colleges to which he applied and whines about it.” (Ingraham apologized Thursday after several of her program’s sponsors threatened to cancel their ads.)

The NRA characterized the student protesters as mindless pawns doing the bidding of “gun-hating billionaires and Hollywood elites.”

March for Our Lives: A nationwide cry for gun control punctuated by Emma Gonzalez's silence
An aide to state Rep. Shawn Harrison, R-Tampa, was fired after emailing a Tampa Bay Times reporter his grammatically challenged theory that neither Hogg nor González were enrolled at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High. “Both kids in the picture are not students here but actors that travel to various crisis when they happen,” the aide wrote.

On Monday, the right-wing website RedState, based on lies gleaned from the Internet claimed that Hogg hadn’t been at school at the time of the shooting. RedState later corrected the error but that hardly kept the smear from proliferating across cyberspace, nudged along by the deplorable Hollywood-based conspiracy mongering site Sandy Hook Hoax which posted RedState’s original assertion without bothering with the correction.

Donald Trump Jr. offered his own prestige, such as it is, to conspiracy theorists when he “liked” Facebook posts claiming David Hogg, son of a retired FBI agent, was only drumming up gun protests to distract attention from FBI scandals.

A barrage of lies, insults, slander, the dissemination of doctored photos and crackpot conspiracy theories seems to be all the rebuttal the crazies can muster against the Parkland kids. Against Emma4Change. Against her six minutes and 20 seconds.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3968 posts
Thu Feb-28-19 10:21 AM

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117. "Right. No one in here was politically"
In response to Reply # 115


          

Engaged at that age.

Hell most aren’t even engaged now.

Yet, they have all the answers on how these kids
should behave when confronting a rep- something
they’ve never done.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Feb-28-19 12:15 PM

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128. "Wait, wasn't everyone politically engaged at that age?"
In response to Reply # 117


          


What kind of prick isn't politically engaged at that age? We were naive and underinformed, but we were engaged.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu Feb-28-19 12:55 PM

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131. "I wasn’t politically engaged at 7."
In response to Reply # 128


          

but I also cried as a toddler

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Feb-28-19 12:59 PM

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132. "not in the least"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

are you really implying most kids are/were ?

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu Feb-28-19 01:08 PM

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133. "This an another OKP moment. "
In response to Reply # 132


          

OKP’s have been:

Toddlers who didn’t cry or throw fits
Shit that never stinks
Read newspapers at 3 years old
Been engaged with politics at the age of 7

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Marauder21
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Thu Feb-28-19 01:28 PM

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138. "Right"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

You mean everyone didn't get sent to the principal in second grade for interrupting recess by grabbing the megaphone and yelling "FREE MUMIA?"

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu Feb-28-19 01:29 PM

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139. "lol"
In response to Reply # 133


          


I'm legit waiting to read the word "bootstraps"

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Feb-28-19 01:12 PM

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136. "16 year olds? Definitely."
In response to Reply # 132


          


Yeah there were younger kids in that group, but the younger kids weren't politically engaged at all. They were just along with the group.

At 16, yeah, I thought I was fucking revolutionary.

  

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Mynoriti
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148. "i was tagging on busses when I was 16"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

and smoking weed and going to ditching parties

but I had a job and hadn't dropped out and wasn't in a gang so I was considered a good kid among my circle

but politics? Outside of knowing who the president was I knew nothing. I didn't vote till my mid 20s or reallly pay attention till my 30s

these kids have already passed present me

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu Feb-28-19 03:50 PM

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151. "I was a the typical fake Malcolm X at 16"
In response to Reply # 136


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Marauder21
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Thu Feb-28-19 01:25 PM

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137. "I'd say I started to get "engaged" with politics at 16"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

But not to the level of knowing wtf I was talking about or able to articulate actual policy preferences. I knew I didn't want George W Bush to become president, outside of that? You could've just as easily gotten me to support John McCain as you could Ralph Nader, I wasn't at all coherent.

These kids looked younger than that, though.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu Feb-28-19 01:33 PM

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140. "enough to confront a senator?"
In response to Reply # 128


          


Nah. Maybe you, but definitely not most people- here or elsewhere.


"kids" these days have drawn more attention to topics from climate change to white supremacy to gun control.

They are pissed/scared, and they should be.


This idea that they "represent" the problem or shouldn't be disrespectful to a Senator or whatever is bullshit.

If they were apathetic- that would be the problem.

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
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Thu Feb-28-19 01:55 PM

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143. "I had a parent that used to work at the Texas Senate"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

I spent summers in those halls.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12240 posts
Thu Feb-28-19 04:22 PM

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154. "THEY didn't confront the senator, though."
In response to Reply # 140


          


They were the ones on camera, but they were brought there by activists in the Sunrise movement.

They went of their own free will, I don't dispute that at all, but the kids themselves didn't work out a plan to meet their senator.

When I was a kid, if my parents or some family friend told me I could get out of school for a few days, go to DC to do a global warming protest, I would have been happy as fuck to go along. It would have made my year, and I'm sure it would have for most of us. If, then, someone from the Senator's staff notices us and invites us in (which I gather is what happened here), again, I would have jumped at the chance, and I think most kids would.

I'm not criticizing the kids here at all. Quite the opposite. I'm just saying they were being entirely normal.

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
42887 posts
Thu Feb-28-19 01:33 PM

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141. "i JUST got HALFWAY engaged lol...."
In response to Reply # 128


  

          


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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144. "Ninja speak for yourself. I got to meet Jesse when he came to Richmond"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

in 84.

I went to give him a handshake and he picked me up and gave me a hug.

But that's besides the point. I am happy for these kids for being engaged. I am also happy that they got their first lesson in politics.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67653 posts
Thu Feb-28-19 03:56 PM

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152. "Nigga, politicians kiss babies.. doesn’t mean they were engaged. "
In response to Reply # 144


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15102 posts
Thu Feb-28-19 04:05 PM

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153. "Mr Jackson, how do plan of paying for reparations (c) 4 y.o. BG "
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

PUT ME DOWN!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67653 posts
Thu Feb-28-19 04:47 PM

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155. "What is your stance on #ADOS Mr Jackson"
In response to Reply # 153


          

Buddy was so playery he knew about hashtags in the 80’s.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
4023 posts
Thu Feb-28-19 02:10 PM

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145. "Enjoyed it ? Are you Snoop ?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-13-2014/nySLIV.mp4


"Fuck your Green New Deal"

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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45437 posts
Thu Feb-28-19 02:24 PM

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147. "But folks trying to say they didn't laugh at that shit either. SMH. "
In response to Reply # 145


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
4023 posts
Thu Feb-28-19 02:36 PM

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149. "LOL that was a movie it's not the same thing."
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

Plus Feinstein has 30 years, she should've been able to handle kids better.

This history looks bad.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dianne-feinstein-confederate-flag/?fbclid=IwAR04GNvYDnmKdwg-DX87MHOcvUUKSUWoX9LK21E9pSR-FWWt5r1tI4wHyw4

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Sat Mar-16-19 02:42 PM

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156. "Those kids grow into these obnoxious NYU kids"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.complex.com/life/2019/03/chelsea-clinton-confronted-nyu-vigil



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
4023 posts
Sat Mar-16-19 06:06 PM

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157. "What ?"
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

You mean they grow up to become Chelsea Clinton.

---------------------------
Signature

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
20059 posts
Mon Sep-21-20 10:02 PM

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158. "Fuck Feinstein"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67653 posts
Tue Sep-22-20 09:19 AM

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159. "Free Buddy G!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41349 posts
Tue Sep-22-20 09:55 AM

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161. "did he get banned?"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67653 posts
Tue Sep-22-20 10:02 AM

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162. "Nah.. he got band. "
In response to Reply # 161


          

Not sure if he is still on time out but I remember he called someone out in an OP and then poof... he was gone.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Sep-22-20 11:37 AM

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164. "I am free bruh"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

I decided to take a break from GD with the realization that I was spending a lot of time in a place where certain butthole surfers are allowed to decide what I am allowed to talk about...that and I decided something had to give if I was going to get side projects off the ground.

I am sure I'll be back and probably spend more time in the lesson.



Oh yeah, and I stand by this post. It seems prescient in the burn out of Bernie Sanders and the ressurection of Joe Biden. Being right isn't enough.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EITiI1_WkAYOqcq.jpg

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6174 posts
Tue Sep-22-20 12:48 PM

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165. "Glad you put your mental health/productivity first. Thats vital. Forreal..."
In response to Reply # 164


          



that being said, whenever you're ready to come back to GD im lighting your ass up for this post. :/

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue Sep-22-20 12:50 PM

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166. "Salute.. stay Black!!! "
In response to Reply # 164
Tue Sep-22-20 01:00 PM by legsdiamond

          

That image is foul tho..

What about the children?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Rjcc
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Thu Sep-24-20 04:35 PM

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169. "good call tbh"
In response to Reply # 164


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
83482 posts
Fri Sep-25-20 06:53 PM

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171. "Glad you made a good choice, but a distinction here:"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

> I
>was spending a lot of time in a place where certain butthole
>surfers are allowed to decide what I am allowed to talk
>about

No one's deciding what you're allowed to talk about. But when you say something they vehemently disagree with, they will push back and say you're wrong. That's the nature of the thing. Unless the mods are banning you for some reason, no one's deciding what you're allowed to talk about. Just you.

That said, I *always* take steps away when I feel like I've stepped in it (especially on sports), so it's a good choice for one's mental health. I'll take long stretches away from here if I don't dig the discourse I'm seeing. So I think that's definitely a smart thing for everyone, not just you, to do-- and probably more frequently than we tend to do, tbh, lol.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Sun Sep-27-20 02:09 PM

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179. "Frank someone deleting my post is deciding what I am allowed to talk abo..."
In response to Reply # 171
Sun Sep-27-20 02:21 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

And as a moderator, you should know that.

Do you disagree that locking post and deleting post is a form of deciding what I am allowed to talk about?


I know you are a good dude so I don't know if you don't have all the facts or if this is a knee jerk defense of other moderators.






>> I
>>was spending a lot of time in a place where certain butthole
>>surfers are allowed to decide what I am allowed to talk
>>about
>
>No one's deciding what you're allowed to talk about. But when
>you say something they vehemently disagree with, they will
>push back and say you're wrong. That's the nature of the
>thing. Unless the mods are banning you for some reason, no
>one's deciding what you're allowed to talk about. Just you.
>
>That said, I *always* take steps away when I feel like I've
>stepped in it (especially on sports), so it's a good choice
>for one's mental health. I'll take long stretches away from
>here if I don't dig the discourse I'm seeing. So I think
>that's definitely a smart thing for everyone, not just you, to
>do-- and probably more frequently than we tend to do, tbh,
>lol.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6174 posts
Tue Sep-22-20 09:20 AM

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160. "This post aged like some milk boy"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Those entitled leftists dont want the earth to be uninhabitable within the next 50 years. They suck

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
67653 posts
Tue Sep-22-20 10:11 AM

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163. "Fuck them kids (c)"
In response to Reply # 160


          

someone actually typed that out. Smh..

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
4023 posts
Tue Sep-22-20 01:51 PM

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167. "Damn just read who typed that"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

and I was in the thread. That was messed up.

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Rjcc
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Thu Sep-24-20 04:34 PM

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168. "I don't even besmirch buddy this one, but it's funny."
In response to Reply # 160
Thu Sep-24-20 04:35 PM by Rjcc

          

he passed this up and went straight to EVERYONE HATES STRAIGHT BLACK MEN arguing with no pause whatsoever

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Rjcc
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Fri Sep-25-20 05:01 PM

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170. "and buddy followed it up with a bigger L because he didn't read LOL"
In response to Reply # 168
Fri Sep-25-20 05:02 PM by Rjcc

          

now that buddy has done the dumbest shit I've ever even heard of, I'm going to stop forgetting who he is

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Sat Sep-26-20 07:20 AM

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172. "Bruh can I respectfully ask that you stop harassing me?"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

Like can you keep my name out of your mouth?

Who do I complain to at OKP about a moderator trolling and harassing me?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Rjcc
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Sat Sep-26-20 08:50 AM

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176. "this was not a reply to you, I have not made a post about you."
In response to Reply # 172


          

we don't need to interact, as you said, you have places to focus your energy that would be more to your benefit

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Sun Sep-27-20 02:19 PM

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180. "As a moderator, you don't think its harrassing to come into this post"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

and talk shit about me when I've said nothing to you?




>we don't need to interact, as you said, you have places to
>focus your energy that would be more to your benefit
>
>www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Rjcc
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186. "I know. you're mad because someone else dissed you."
In response to Reply # 180


          

I didn't diss you, and in fact spoke up in support of you.

but you want to be mad at me.

so here you are.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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193. "I want you to leave me alone. This is about your behavior as a Moderator..."
In response to Reply # 186
Mon Sep-28-20 06:05 AM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

You've been harrassing me (and others) and you are doing so in this very post and other mods have been defending you. I've asked you before to not interact with me and you continue.

I still wonder who at okp is responsible for your behavior.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Rjcc
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199. "I responded to a direct question you asked me."
In response to Reply # 193


          

now you claim I'm harassing you.

if you don't want me to reply to you, then please stop asking me questions that elicit answers.




www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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201. "If you call your response answering my question then the answer seemms"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

to be "no". So you won't acknowledge coming in here with 169 and 170# is harassment. I got where you stand.

Frank and other Mods, I leave the question to you all. If I feel harrassed by a moderator (this post being an example of it), is there any recourse available to me?




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Rjcc
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202. "there's a missing reply here because buddy double posted"
In response to Reply # 201


          

and I deleted the duplicate

just noting this so that when he comes back two months from now moaning about what he can't talk about we'll all know why his reply was deleted.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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181. "climate denial and MRA. he dying on the worst hills possible right now."
In response to Reply # 170


          

its a sick cycle.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Mynoriti
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184. "Buddy didn't deny climate change"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

neither did Feinstein

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Brotha Sun
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187. "I'm lumping in anyones whos totally fine with doing nothing as deniers "
In response to Reply # 184


          

Or calling for "incremental change"

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Mynoriti
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189. "at least the little kids have an excuse for stuff like this"
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Sat Sep-26-20 09:10 AM

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177. "children have no place in politics"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

ridiculous of those parents to put their kids in that position in the first place


_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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182. "How dare they try to hold public servants accountable"
In response to Reply # 177


          

Those damn kids dont want the earth to burn. Its not their business!

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Mynoriti
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185. "wouldn't go that far"
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

yeah it gets murky when kids are used as tools/props but its not unreasonable for kids to ask people who will be dead in 20 years to take steps to leave the planet inhabitable for them or not wanna be shot at school, etc..

i think Feinstein was being a dick here but i also worry about someone like Warren pandering so much in situations like these. I could see her handling this the opposite way and pledging to name a climate change committee of 4th graders to sign off on policy

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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SuiteLady
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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175. "They wanted it to be a one-way conversation and she actually engaged"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

they were not ready for the engagement and that is the fault of the grownups who brought them.

♥ Inescapably Me ♥

"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Sun Sep-27-20 09:36 AM

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178. "Feinstein should be fucking retired."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I used to make fun of the South Carolina Republicans for keeping Strom Thurmond going until he was damn near 100 years old and couldn't hear clearly

but the Dems are doing the same thing with the likes of Pelosi and Feinstein.

Clearly this is a "get rich or die trying" scheme from the lot of them. Term limits, for the love of Prime

  

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handle
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183. "You're falling for Republican and Russian shit"
In response to Reply # 178


          

You are suggesting that the LEADER of the House retire for WHAT FUCKIGN GOOD REASON???

Same people who said TULSI FUCKING GABBARD should be the speaker are spreading this shit.

You are falling for stupid shit.

Check yo self.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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188. "I found the name of the russian responsible for this propaganda "
In response to Reply # 183


          

His name is Pepe Sylvia.


He's a crafty bastard. He brainwashed every leftist into falling for the okey doke smh. its actually disturbing.

I hope you catch him.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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handle
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190. "You're the type of chump they go after"
In response to Reply # 188
Sun Sep-27-20 08:19 PM by handle

          

https://www.vox.com/2020/9/21/21401149/russia-2020-election-meddling-trump-biden

Or hey, maybe you just honestly come up with these bad ideas on your own???

Literally what people are advocating is to get rid ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE ONLY the most senior and knowledgeable leaders and replace them with people with little experience.

Who do you think that benefits??

Chumps.

(That's your type, you may be a super duper person!! Really!)

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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191. ""experienced" is another term for old and complicit. "
In response to Reply # 190


          

The reason people want the seasoned democratic leaders to step down is because they refuse to combat the right's descent into extremism. they wanna be "civil" (read: do nothing) and "fair" (read: do nothing).

its pathetic and selfish considering they wont be alive when shit gets real.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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handle
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192. "And then what?????????"
In response to Reply # 191


          

Impeach Trump? (Done it)
Pass bills with policies that are better? (Done it?)
Throw dem hands?????????!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

WTF are you propsoing?

To back o 1992, when Tulsi Gabbard was 11 and AOC was 3 and groom them up and have them be elected before she was 25 and ...

WTF are you talking about?????

The problem is not the leaders in congress - it's the fucking idiots who don't vote because: a)they're all the same 2)how bad could it be with Trump shaking it up??

It's a game - the Right's ploy in the past 30 year was voter suppression where possible - and lie to people and say their vote doesn't count.

That's the fucking voters fault.

What the fuck are you actually proposing???? Other than younger people would be shinier and you'd feel less about them until they were there for a while - and then they too would have to go??

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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Mon Sep-28-20 08:12 AM

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194. "Combatting Voter supression is the responsibility of Voters?"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

If they're competent/serious about winning elections Then the leadership of the party whose Voters are consistently being disenfranchised should be making that one of their key things to focus on/constantly use media and all other channels available to raise the issue.


Disclaimer:
EVERYONE AND THE MOMMA SHOULD STILL VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN IN THIS ELECTION
No the two Parties are not the same/as bad.

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Sep-28-20 08:27 AM

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195. "It’s our fault for voting in the same old asses into office"
In response to Reply # 194


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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196. "Democrats need to do a better job distinguishing themselves then"
In response to Reply # 192


          

Its not voters' responsibility to be passionate about politicians. They need to give people something tangible to believe in.

Would you categorize dems fighting to remove green party candidates off the ballot as voter suppression. Why or why not?

Dems have been committed to appealing to moderate conservatives in the suburbs for decades and its biting them in the ass.

They refuse to play dirty against republicans but wanna waste resources on the green party.

Maybe the 100 million or so people that sit out every election could be inspired by, iono, actual policies instead of "vote with your heart. hope and change" rhetoric.



"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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197. "THIS!"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

>Dems have been committed to appealing to moderate
>conservatives in the suburbs for decades and its biting them
>in the ass.
>
>They refuse to play dirty against republicans but wanna waste
>resources on the green party.

You'll NEVER see the GOP openly talking down to/dismissing their base and will do everything possible to try to legitimize even the most EXTREME of their supporters


On paper it should be so Easy to come up with an effective campaign against the Republicans but that would require actuallytaking action that might upset their Big Money donors

The sitting President has REPEATEDLY indicated he wouldn't peacefully give up power if he lost

That should be the biggest news story, Democrats should have been ringing alarms, on the news 24/7 talking about the dangerous implications of that and laying out a strategy to counteract that

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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handle
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198. "^^It's ALWAYS the democrats fault according to you"
In response to Reply # 196


          

Always - and only the ones you dislike.

You're in a loop.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
4023 posts
Mon Sep-28-20 01:24 PM

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203. "Yeah it is Democrats fault sometimes"
In response to Reply # 198


  

          


This doesn't help.

https://www.newsweek.com/democrats-dianne-feinstein-packing-supreme-court-1533447

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20154 posts
Mon Sep-28-20 02:37 PM

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204. "Good god is she awful."
In response to Reply # 203


          

>This doesn't help.
>
>https://www.newsweek.com/democrats-dianne-feinstein-packing-supreme-court-1533447

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
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205. "god forbid they are held to a standard."
In response to Reply # 198


          

Its well known how terrible republicans are, but when you secure voter loyalty by claiming to have the moral high ground for 50+ years there better be some tangible results.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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Backbone
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Tue Sep-29-20 08:41 AM

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206. "Voters aren't going to change their behavior overnight."
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

- Blaming specific swaths of voters is pointless and counterproductive.
- Figuring out how to reach them is smart.
- People left of center are saying that the dems aren't doing enough of the latter.
- You (or any of the people insisting that people on the left fall in line with centrist dems) haven't really shown that they are.

What's the plan? Both for this election and afterwards? What vision of the future besides NOT TRUMP is being offered to that huge swath of voters that isn't showing up? The rightwing authoritarian, moderate conservative and liberal voters seem to have a home, who's going to look after the rest?
If the democrats fail to mobilize this part of the electorate, those people are either going to stay home or vote independent, regardless of how many times centrist berate them for "helping Trump".

The system might be rigged, and democrats are only partly to blame for that, but they're fully responsible for their agenda and campaign.

___________________
"So this is what everybody's always talking about! Diablo! If only I'd known. The beauty! The beauty!"

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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207. "So now if you criticize Democrats, you're a russian troll???"
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

...My God ...you have become the brainwashed person you're warning others about ...you sound like a certain group that yells "fake news" at everyone.




-----------------------------------------
https://www.instagram.com/dj_chief_one
(Live Mixshow Thursday Nights 9PM/EST)

https://soundcloud.com/djchiefone
https://www.mixcloud.com/djchiefone/

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5240 posts
Fri Oct-16-20 11:38 AM

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210. "I believe you are entitled to one 'I Told You So!'"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

https://www.instagram.com/sbmission365/

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15102 posts
Fri Oct-16-20 10:48 AM

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208. "RE: I'm sorry but I enjoyed Feinstein owning these little kids"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Oct-16-20 10:52 AM by bentagain

  

          

https://youtu.be/L82U29_Zd7U

Term Limits

https://youtu.be/-elU1Ka37t8

Won’t take a test.

WTF (c) 2020

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6174 posts
Fri Oct-16-20 11:30 AM

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209. "Reply 160 aged like some wine boy "
In response to Reply # 208


          

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

  

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