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Subject: "Who do you want to win the Dem nomination? (initial poll)" Previous topic | Next topic
mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 11:45 AM

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"Poll question: Who do you want to win the Dem nomination? (initial poll)"


  

          

its really early and not everyone has announced they're running. with that said, right now who would be your pick to win the nomination. not who you think has the best chance of winning vs trump or who is most likely to win the nomination. who are you most likely to vote for if the election was tonight.

im going with the list from the hill

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/430461-the-10-dems-most-likely-to-win-the-2020-presidential-nomination

we can do another poll in a few months when things get more solid.

Poll result (87 votes)
Kamala Harris (16 votes)Vote
Joe Biden (4 votes)Vote
Bernie Sanders (35 votes)Vote
Beto O'Rourke (11 votes)Vote
Elizabeth Warren (13 votes)Vote
Other (post below) (8 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I like Warren's policies the best so far
Feb 19th 2019
1
what about her foreign policy do you like?
Feb 19th 2019
5
      Getting out of Afghanistan/ending support for the Saudi campaign
Feb 19th 2019
9
           She's not particularly insightful on foreign policy
Feb 19th 2019
11
                I would like more of a focus on foreign policy in the Dem party
Feb 19th 2019
15
                The convention spent most of two days on bullshit militarism.
Feb 19th 2019
42
                agreed - and I think it's a vastly underrated facet of 2020.
Feb 20th 2019
57
                It's got to be our least democratic political arena
Feb 19th 2019
21
                     you know it's bad when Tucker Carlson is bodying the left
Feb 20th 2019
58
                          No history, no future
Feb 21st 2019
112
Ranked: 1.Bernie, 2.Warren, 3.Kamala, 4.Beto, 5.Biden
Feb 19th 2019
2
My Ranking: 1.Beto, 2.Bernie, 3.Warren, 4.Kamala
Feb 19th 2019
6
Same. I might switch Beto and Kamala, but they neck and neck.
Feb 19th 2019
10
Bernie/Tulsi ticket
Feb 19th 2019
3
*stands in this line*
Feb 21st 2019
128
Warren/O'Rourke
Feb 19th 2019
4
This Bernie announcement has me kinda shook
Feb 19th 2019
7
$1 million in under 4 hours
Feb 19th 2019
8
      up to $3 million and counting.
Feb 19th 2019
14
None in this poll
Feb 19th 2019
12
who then?
Feb 19th 2019
13
      need more time
Feb 19th 2019
19
i'm so over bernie but i'd probably go with him
Feb 19th 2019
16
no white people over 70
Feb 19th 2019
17
RE: no white people
Feb 19th 2019
44
dems never elect a president older than the preceding repub.
Feb 20th 2019
51
      So you’re off Biden now? For good?
Feb 20th 2019
53
      fam this is really getting annoying. i literally said the same thing
Feb 20th 2019
59
           not sure why it had to get personal, but lets go
Feb 20th 2019
86
                https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpz81S7usvTIM8w/giphy.gif
Feb 21st 2019
115
                like 90% of your criticism of me is that i dont show bernie enough love.
Feb 21st 2019
118
                     You are completely off man. Its crazy. This is about Biden mostly
Feb 22nd 2019
160
                          good brother take the rest of the weekend to cool off. you need it.
Feb 23rd 2019
161
                               Lol damn folks were right about you
Feb 23rd 2019
162
                                    He never did come back in the Beto post
Feb 23rd 2019
164
      That's such a weird statistic lol
Feb 20th 2019
95
Biden/Harris
Feb 19th 2019
18
vote for daddy bernie, bitch" - cardi b
Feb 19th 2019
20
A vote for Bernie = Trump
Feb 19th 2019
22
I am not pro Bernie but I don't understand this logic.
Feb 19th 2019
25
Only if you assumed someone less "moderate" would have won.
Feb 19th 2019
28
RE: Only if you assumed someone less "moderate" would have won.
Feb 19th 2019
45
i thought it was more that running Hillary was a mistake
Feb 19th 2019
31
Ralph Nader 2000 I think is the thought
Feb 19th 2019
35
      no matter what someone thinks of Bernie
Feb 20th 2019
93
           Yeah, him actually running an independent campaign
Feb 20th 2019
97
How is a vote for anyone in the Dem primary a vote for
Feb 19th 2019
30
      Because some nominees would guarantee Trump wins the general.
Feb 19th 2019
32
           Yes - like Hillary Clinton.
Feb 20th 2019
54
                serious question...why did bernie lose to her?
Feb 20th 2019
60
                     She had a huge head start and a lot of folks thought it was her time
Feb 20th 2019
61
                     Obama was a once-in-a-generation political talent
Feb 20th 2019
65
                     I have come around to the opinion that anybody but Hillary would have be...
Feb 21st 2019
116
                          i cant wait til we all realize this:
Feb 21st 2019
117
                          bernie was of the generation that knew you had to take it to the streets
Feb 21st 2019
120
                     RE: serious question...why did bernie lose to her?
Feb 21st 2019
129
Does anyone think the VP office should do or mean more?
Feb 19th 2019
23
not sure but it's less about policy and more about who can win
Feb 19th 2019
24
I'm waiting for the debate.
Feb 19th 2019
26
Tulsi and Klobuchar are my almost 100% nos right now
Feb 19th 2019
29
None of these are convincing general election candidates.
Feb 19th 2019
27
I agree with a lot of this actually
Feb 19th 2019
40
Andrew Yang
Feb 19th 2019
33
interesting
Feb 19th 2019
36
I don't know if he's ready for a serious run, but his ideas are interest...
Feb 19th 2019
38
      check out his Rogan podcast from last week
Feb 19th 2019
41
^^this is the guy I back.
Feb 19th 2019
37
love the attention he's bringing to UBI
Feb 20th 2019
55
dunno about president but I appreciate what he's doing
Feb 20th 2019
109
yeah, he's at least discussing and attempting to offer solutions
Feb 20th 2019
110
I like a lot about Yang. Would love him in a progressive cabinet.
Feb 21st 2019
130
RE: Andrew Yang <———- YEP
Mar 03rd 2019
166
im liking this guy more and more
Mar 11th 2019
265
^^^^^^^^^
Mar 15th 2019
339
Whoever brings a guillotine on stage
Feb 19th 2019
34
Bernard, motherfuckers.
Feb 19th 2019
39
I like Sherrod (after a thorough blackface check)
Feb 19th 2019
43
none of it matters if dems dont come up with a media strategy *asap*.
Feb 19th 2019
46
Pete Buttigieg wants to pack courts and eliminate the filibuster
Feb 19th 2019
47
A+ Ron Powlus callback.
Feb 19th 2019
49
he would have been a really good dnc chair.
Feb 20th 2019
52
he think da electoral college should go too
Feb 20th 2019
101
anyone but bernie sanders
Feb 19th 2019
48
mueller gonna lock him up too for conspiring with manafort & tad devine!
Feb 19th 2019
50
Why? It’s not like Trump will be free for 2020 right?
Feb 20th 2019
63
      LANDSLIDE
Feb 20th 2019
64
Bernie raised more money in a day than any candidate in history
Feb 20th 2019
56
I think the problem for Sanders is he's not running against Clitnon
Feb 20th 2019
92
      true - in 2016 it was a binary choice: Clinton or Sanders
Mar 07th 2019
220
Damn, Bernie still strong as shit.
Feb 20th 2019
62
We just don't need the "Bernie or bust" mentality again
Feb 20th 2019
66
80% of his supporters voted for Hillary.
Feb 20th 2019
77
It's *definitely* gonna be a problem.
Feb 20th 2019
67
What's the problem?
Feb 20th 2019
68
because of the intense line drawing.
Feb 20th 2019
69
^
Feb 20th 2019
71
I don’t think any Bernie Stan ran to Trump
Feb 20th 2019
73
      Either way, the end result is the same.
Feb 20th 2019
75
      12% of bernie sanders supporters in 2016 dem primary voted for trump:
Feb 20th 2019
102
           how many of those 12% were unaffiliated or independents
Mar 04th 2019
172
                I didn't vote for Hillary either
Mar 09th 2019
252
Problem for the newbies like KH, Warren, etc
Feb 20th 2019
72
      ^^ this. I am legit surprised
Feb 20th 2019
89
           He's got name recognition second only to Biden
Feb 20th 2019
90
                RE: He's got name recognition second only to Biden
Feb 20th 2019
94
                     RE: He's got name recognition second only to Biden
Feb 20th 2019
96
He's the best candidate by a mile.
Feb 20th 2019
70
This is probably true too
Feb 20th 2019
74
      We have no way to deal with senile presidents
Feb 20th 2019
76
           LOL. Y'all being real silly today.
Feb 20th 2019
78
           exactly, that's the problem...
Feb 20th 2019
80
           Oh, well if other countries are cool with senile leaders . . .
Feb 20th 2019
82
           That’s the problem.
Feb 20th 2019
84
                lol dude really thought he dropped the big joker.
Feb 20th 2019
88
           right, just like there's a minimum age there should be a maximum
Feb 20th 2019
79
I truly don't understand why
Feb 20th 2019
81
Surprising on this site after his white working class pandoring tour
Feb 20th 2019
83
      This site isn’t super Black or poor
Feb 20th 2019
85
      yup. Sanders economic message resonates with a LOT of folks
Feb 20th 2019
104
      I wonder if his new campaign manager will work on that
Feb 20th 2019
91
We need someone young and vibrant to counter the old crazy man
Feb 20th 2019
87
Bernie looks like he got dandruff flakes on his blazer collar.
Feb 20th 2019
98
bwahahahahahahaha
Feb 20th 2019
103
After Trump he’d look just fine
Feb 20th 2019
106
      I think he's done this on more than a few occasions
Feb 20th 2019
108
he'd win handsdown with some updated glasses
Feb 26th 2019
165
The candidate isn'tgoing to be anyone who hasn't already declared,
Feb 20th 2019
99
Bernie will get eaten alive by Trump.
Feb 20th 2019
100
nah. Sanders will embarrass him in a debate
Feb 20th 2019
105
t.rump Doesn't Debate, He Just Clowns People & Call Them Names
Feb 20th 2019
107
But.That.Shit.Works.
Feb 21st 2019
119
      Yup. Hillary Hillary annihalated Trump in the debates
Feb 21st 2019
121
           The Debates didn't hurt her. She had zingers.
Feb 21st 2019
122
                true. its more that the debates didn't matter
Feb 21st 2019
123
In jokes? Maybe... but not on policy
Feb 21st 2019
113
      In getting votes.
Feb 21st 2019
114
I'm thiinking gotta be Bernie this time around
Feb 20th 2019
111
Tulsi Gabbard
Feb 21st 2019
124
20 Reasons Bernie Sanders Is The One To Beat Trump (*Backed By Data)
Feb 21st 2019
125
FEEL THE BERN!!
Feb 21st 2019
126
yea he's clearly the candidate the people are behind.
Mar 04th 2019
167
I hope Dems learned something in 2020.
Feb 21st 2019
127
this is the real problem:
Feb 22nd 2019
133
Good points but where were these moderates
Feb 22nd 2019
135
      for what its worth crossover republicans handed the dems
Feb 22nd 2019
141
           RE: for what its worth crossover republicans handed the dems
Feb 22nd 2019
143
                very likely. republicans have had decades worth of hate for clinton.
Feb 22nd 2019
145
                     It's 1,000x more exaggerated on Twitter/online
Feb 22nd 2019
157
Warren
Feb 22nd 2019
131
fam we have some legit idiots on our side:
Feb 22nd 2019
132
smh
Feb 22nd 2019
134
Meh. that could be a chess move.
Feb 22nd 2019
136
      crazy talk.
Feb 22nd 2019
137
      It's a chess move in the way that knocking over your own king
Feb 22nd 2019
138
           Lol
Feb 22nd 2019
144
           we never learn.
Feb 22nd 2019
146
btw howard schultz book came out less than a month ago
Feb 22nd 2019
139
i saw clips of his townhall
Feb 22nd 2019
140
      yeah im not even sure what the point of all of this was.
Feb 22nd 2019
142
Surprised Klobuchar isn't getting more burn from the moderate/centrist
Feb 22nd 2019
147
I’m wondering the same
Feb 22nd 2019
148
'never trump' republicans have all been propping her up a lot lately.
Feb 22nd 2019
149
Never been a fan of attacking the messenger
Feb 22nd 2019
150
      Why would a bunch of McCain/Romney voters support a Dem?
Feb 22nd 2019
153
           I missed the post where 'these people' suggest they are switching partie...
Feb 22nd 2019
154
                No I'm not
Feb 22nd 2019
155
                     RE: she could be a strong candidate
Feb 22nd 2019
158
                          She's not a tough boss, she's an abusive boss
Feb 22nd 2019
159
I've voted for her twice and think she's (mostly) a decent Senator
Feb 22nd 2019
151
Appreciate the insight
Feb 23rd 2019
163
some of those quotes from the NYT story today tho...
Feb 22nd 2019
152
      The maternity policy is insane
Feb 22nd 2019
156
Hickenlooper is running
Mar 04th 2019
168
I am not a Bernie Fan but this is soo stupid
Mar 04th 2019
169
Where did the Bernie is not for black folks narrative come from?
Mar 04th 2019
170
I mean, he tries to defend white racist voters. But they are voters.
Mar 04th 2019
171
RE: Where did the Bernie is not for black folks narrative come from?
Mar 04th 2019
176
RE: I am not a Bernie Fan but this is soo stupid
Mar 04th 2019
173
That's 1 of the dumbest tweets I've ever seen (which is saying something...
Mar 04th 2019
174
She could be telling a waiter to hurry up with her food in that photo
Mar 04th 2019
175
LMAO!
Mar 04th 2019
177
Definitely. And the replies too. Save the link
Mar 04th 2019
178
He's uncomfortable around people in general.
Mar 04th 2019
179
Is there anyone that would see this and be convinced
Mar 04th 2019
180
Am I missing something?
Mar 07th 2019
183
      Come on Adwhizz
Mar 07th 2019
191
           That's a pretty big reach based off looking at an image that
Mar 07th 2019
207
Sherrod not running
Mar 07th 2019
181
I have a feeling that means that Biden will... n/m
Mar 07th 2019
182
Oh, he's definitely running
Mar 07th 2019
185
Yes Biden is running
Mar 07th 2019
189
      I legit think Trump is winning in 2020 at this point
Mar 07th 2019
199
           Be patient mang. Too early.
Mar 07th 2019
202
           Obviously I hope you're right
Mar 07th 2019
218
                Yea my opinion is that there's *SO* much to "report"
Mar 07th 2019
223
           Oh no, now it's two people throwing in the towel
Mar 07th 2019
212
                nah I admit I go back and forth
Mar 07th 2019
216
Good
Mar 07th 2019
184
That's a damn good point. n/m
Mar 07th 2019
187
I'm lost...he would only have to give up his seat
Mar 07th 2019
198
      No, it's only if he won
Mar 07th 2019
200
           I get that point
Mar 07th 2019
219
Well shit.
Mar 07th 2019
186
      lol I mean, sure. Sherrod Brown was our only hope. We're doomed!
Mar 07th 2019
188
      Every current candidate has really serious flaws in the general election...
Mar 07th 2019
231
           not nearly as many flaws as Trump has coming into 2020
Mar 07th 2019
237
                I've never been anybody-or-bust.
Mar 07th 2019
241
                     RE: I've never been anybody-or-bust.
Mar 08th 2019
244
                          Lol, still as innumerate as ever, I see.
Mar 08th 2019
246
                               yea that's deep.
Mar 08th 2019
248
      hes usually at the bottom of every poll in the 1-2% range.
Mar 07th 2019
192
      polls aren't everything- especially this far out
Mar 07th 2019
197
      no doubt about poll numbers.
Mar 07th 2019
204
      I certainly didn't mean to imply I thought he was a lock.
Mar 07th 2019
230
      .
Mar 07th 2019
243
      yeah I'm disappointed
Mar 07th 2019
195
           he has domestic violence and restraining order stuff from the 80s.
Mar 07th 2019
196
                Hm, wasn't aware of that.
Mar 07th 2019
233
                     kinda an important detail
Mar 08th 2019
249
                          It really is.
Mar 08th 2019
251
                               You haven't relented an inch on how wrong you were in 2016
Mar 09th 2019
255
                                    LOL, you mean all the times I said Trump would probably win?
Mar 09th 2019
256
                                         snarky, but empty.
Mar 10th 2019
258
Damn somebody in the thread gave up already
Mar 07th 2019
190
I'm not throwing in any towels.
Mar 07th 2019
234
      trump is most likely to win
Mar 07th 2019
238
      Smh
Mar 10th 2019
260
           not accept it in defeat
Mar 11th 2019
274
      Ok
Mar 10th 2019
261
elizabeth warren is really bad at this.
Mar 07th 2019
193
Yep.
Mar 07th 2019
194
pretty much
Mar 07th 2019
206
      agree 100%
Mar 07th 2019
222
It's disheartening
Mar 07th 2019
201
serious question about bernies taxes.
Mar 07th 2019
203
I don't think it will be a big factor
Mar 07th 2019
205
yeah thats what i dont get.
Mar 07th 2019
209
Soon
Mar 07th 2019
210
'we have to do just a few more little things'. 'mechanical issues'.
Mar 07th 2019
214
This is one of those moments where you have to ask
Mar 07th 2019
215
why is there an interest in any candidates taxes?
Mar 07th 2019
225
Because every other candidate is willing to
Mar 07th 2019
227
naw, I think this is a fair criticism.
Mar 07th 2019
228
I thought he did release his tax return in the last campaign?
Mar 07th 2019
221
just the one cherrypicked year.
Mar 07th 2019
226
nobody gives a fuck
Mar 09th 2019
254
One thing I find trouble is the animosity towards other candidates.
Mar 07th 2019
208
It's cynical but it's our reality sadly.
Mar 07th 2019
211
The 2016 and 2008 primaries were really heated, too
Mar 07th 2019
213
And it did lasting damage and both contributed to the results of 2016.
Mar 07th 2019
224
Agreed. It's one thing to not prefer a particular candidate
Mar 07th 2019
217
Some Dems are legit turning into the Trump supporters their criticized
Mar 07th 2019
229
      I've seen so many #neverBernie
Mar 07th 2019
235
           what kills me about the #neverBernie crowd is
Mar 07th 2019
239
           I've never met a never-Bernie voter, but...
Mar 07th 2019
242
Stacey Abrams
Mar 07th 2019
232
Amy Schumer?
Mar 07th 2019
236
      RE: Amy Schumer?
Mar 07th 2019
240
           He's been a pretty ineffective leader in the Senate
Mar 08th 2019
245
                RE: He's been a pretty ineffective leader in the Senate
Mar 09th 2019
253
79-year old Sanders and 77-year old Biden (at time of election)
Mar 08th 2019
247
agree with your general point
Mar 08th 2019
250
damn i forgot all about this lol.
Mar 10th 2019
257
      according to stravinskian (and many other dems)
Mar 10th 2019
259
           Lol thanks for trying to be so clear about my position.
Mar 10th 2019
262
                Actually - you did say that, but glad you're relenting/retracting
Mar 10th 2019
263
                     More delusions and poor grasp of numbers.
Mar 10th 2019
264
                          epic, obtuse and Big Mad rant, my G. I just have one question:
Mar 11th 2019
272
                               Probably Nancy.
Mar 11th 2019
275
                                    lol still holding on desperately to the Pelosi/Schumer wing, I see.
Mar 11th 2019
276
                                    Lol, still think people who think like you politically matter, I see.
Mar 12th 2019
280
                                    dems basically won the midterms on obamacare.
Mar 12th 2019
287
                                    the pelosi/schumer wing flipped 40 house seats and 2 senate seats.
Mar 12th 2019
282
                                    you're crediting Pelosi and Schumer for the mid-term blue wave?
Mar 12th 2019
284
                                         out of those 42 flipped seats...only 1 ran on medicare for all.
Mar 12th 2019
286
                                              meh not running on M4A does not equal moderate
Mar 13th 2019
295
                                              Define "ran on"
Mar 13th 2019
297
                                                   If he said he'd be "open to it,"
Mar 13th 2019
302
                                    btw what is bernies signature congressional accomplishment?
Mar 12th 2019
285
                                         He has a long history of accomplishments
Mar 13th 2019
296
                                              Oh - and then just today:
Mar 13th 2019
300
                                    NAANNNNCCCYYYY?!?!??! (c) Soulja Boy
Mar 11th 2019
277
Make your "visiting Wisconsin" jokes now
Mar 11th 2019
266
pete buttigieg had a brilliant town hall last night.
Mar 11th 2019
267
I've been impressed by just about everything he's been saying
Mar 11th 2019
268
i started paying attention to him during the race for dnc chair.
Mar 11th 2019
269
His takedown of Pence was brilliant.
Mar 11th 2019
271
1000%
Mar 13th 2019
299
lol isnt his husband saying thats how you pronounce it?
Mar 18th 2019
418
      That's true
Mar 21st 2019
445
im really impressed by this guy
Mar 18th 2019
414
I am old enough to remember when we regarded Biden as a Gaffe Prone
Mar 11th 2019
270
im tryna figure out why da fact dat iowa likes biden so much fuckin matt...
Mar 11th 2019
273
Nigga that was 5 years ago.
Mar 12th 2019
279
joe biden is officially suck a dick status.
Mar 12th 2019
278
Just completely misreading the room
Mar 12th 2019
281
      it seems like thats all hes been doing.
Mar 12th 2019
283
           I mean...yeah. Writings been on the wall
Mar 12th 2019
288
           You really do hate the people you hate.
Mar 12th 2019
290
                Lol that’s fair
Mar 12th 2019
291
                RE: Lol that’s fair
Mar 13th 2019
303
                     It sounds like
Mar 14th 2019
309
                     he knows im not a biden fan but he keeps saying it anyway lol.
Mar 14th 2019
321
                          lol stop
Mar 14th 2019
324
                               you really just gonna groundhogs day this shit to death huh?
Mar 14th 2019
328
                                    lol you would rather spend all that time
Mar 15th 2019
354
                                         Maybe at this point you should take a couple minutes
Mar 15th 2019
360
                                              stadiq is like our version of the smarterchild aim chat bot lol.
Mar 15th 2019
380
                                              *biden (not bernie)
Mar 15th 2019
384
                                              speaking of people who are *touched*
Mar 15th 2019
382
                                                   I don't know you, thankfully.
Mar 15th 2019
391
                                                        I'm not really interested in speculating on your character
Mar 15th 2019
401
                                                             Wait so these aren't ideas or positions?
Mar 16th 2019
407
                                                                  RE: Wait so these aren't ideas or positions?
Apr 15th 2019
462
                The problem with all this is the image he has right now as
Mar 13th 2019
293
                Nate Silver: Polls do have some predictive value at this stage,
Mar 13th 2019
294
                Old white voters and people nostalgic for Obama
Mar 13th 2019
298
                     I said "core of the coalition," not "base."
Mar 13th 2019
301
           For the record, this is why I liked Sherrod so much.
Mar 12th 2019
289
                I agree here
Mar 12th 2019
292
Beto said he was Born to Run
Mar 13th 2019
304
who da fuk says some dumb shit like dat after losin his last election yo
Mar 14th 2019
305
Someone who knows Texas ain’t shit
Mar 14th 2019
306
LMAO
Mar 14th 2019
307
definitely a fumbled announcement
Mar 14th 2019
308
That dog does look sad
Mar 14th 2019
311
      That dog looks like he knows something we dont
Mar 14th 2019
317
I like Beto but that announcement was so dull i couldn't finish
Mar 14th 2019
310
He had enough time to get it right
Mar 14th 2019
312
cory booker winning the only primary that matters.
Mar 14th 2019
313
Wow, from Eric Andre to Luke Cage to Cory Booker?!?
Mar 14th 2019
314
Wait, did she and Mike Colter actually date in real life?
Mar 14th 2019
316
Crushing blow to Bernie's campaign
Mar 14th 2019
315
lol
Mar 14th 2019
326
Lmao. For some reason this seems scripted
Mar 14th 2019
318
      i would think rosario would have more integrity than to go with that
Mar 14th 2019
320
      I don’t know her.. just seems like we will never see them looking
Mar 14th 2019
330
           I guess they've been seen together over the last few months
Mar 15th 2019
344
      they're gonna stage one of those cringy MJ/LisaMarie kisses
Mar 14th 2019
322
the media is clearly gonna paint bernie as a rising socialist dictator.
Mar 14th 2019
319
I don’t think I care. I just want to get the ball rolling.
Mar 14th 2019
323
Beto has had months (years even) to produce a policy platform.
Mar 14th 2019
325
youre not wrong
Mar 14th 2019
327
and Bernie has had 3yrs
Mar 14th 2019
329
obama didnt list policies on his site for more than a month.
Mar 14th 2019
331
wow the Beto O'bama coronation is underway lol
Mar 14th 2019
332
      wait i thought kamala was the establishment coronation candidate lol.
Mar 14th 2019
334
      beto has definitely clearly voiced many items he stands for
Mar 15th 2019
348
           he has - and he often stands with republicans
Mar 15th 2019
359
nah, not feeling Carcetti 2020
Mar 14th 2019
333
not to mention he flip flopped like a mfucka bout runnin to begin wit
Mar 14th 2019
335
      LOL, speaking of Obama parallels.
Mar 14th 2019
336
      you gotta link playa?
Mar 14th 2019
337
           Ask and ye shall receive.
Mar 14th 2019
338
                man pls i could see like a year n some before hilldawg did dat shit too
Mar 15th 2019
340
                     When folks told me he wasn’t running
Mar 15th 2019
342
      LOL I’m crying
Mar 15th 2019
346
      the media apparently loves proms.
Mar 15th 2019
358
           Beto, Biden, and Bernie
Mar 15th 2019
381
           the media will cover all 3 differently too.
Mar 15th 2019
388
           see its shit like this that is gonna make beto inescapable:
Mar 15th 2019
387
Booker's dating Rosario Dawson?
Mar 15th 2019
341
late pass
Mar 15th 2019
343
At this point, it seems like the upper tier* candidates are
Mar 15th 2019
345
Klobuchar is on that list as well.
Mar 15th 2019
347
Is she polling well?
Mar 15th 2019
349
      I haven't been paying much attention to the polls yet.
Mar 15th 2019
350
biden is allegedly exploring a joint campaign with stacey abrams.
Mar 15th 2019
352
      It'd be a brilliant move on his part.
Mar 15th 2019
353
      up above I asked how much a VP candidate can really do
Mar 15th 2019
356
      It's too early for Beto, too, though. He's not going to break out in
Mar 15th 2019
361
      RE: It's too early for Beto, too, though. He's not going to break out in
Mar 15th 2019
370
      Maybe Stacey's more of a realist than Beto is.
Mar 15th 2019
364
           fair point but you misunderstood
Mar 15th 2019
367
                alright, I can see that
Mar 15th 2019
377
                     RE: arrighty, I can see that
Mar 15th 2019
379
      It would be brilliant for Biden - but not so much for Abrams
Mar 15th 2019
366
           the more that i think about it...the more i think it would be beneath he...
Mar 15th 2019
371
                Yeah, it reminds me of Cruz picking Fiorna as his running mate
Mar 15th 2019
374
                agreed - I don't see how it serves her to ride Biden's coattails
Mar 15th 2019
376
                man i'd feel sorry for abrams if she finna be out there defendin his rac...
Mar 15th 2019
378
      Yeah, that could be a field-clearing move.
Mar 15th 2019
355
      RE: biden is allegedly exploring a joint campaign with stacey abrams.
Mar 18th 2019
427
'bernie beating kamala 2:1 among black dem primary voters' lol
Mar 15th 2019
351
so we're using photos to debunk polling data now? lol
Mar 15th 2019
357
'oh so we believing our own eyes now?'
Mar 15th 2019
362
      you can turn on a game and watch a guy score 6 in 2 mins.
Mar 15th 2019
365
           or you can not watch the game at all and just believe pre-game takes.
Mar 15th 2019
368
                let's move on here lol
Mar 15th 2019
369
                     are you trying to convince me or yourself? lol.
Mar 15th 2019
373
                          not at all. I'm just curious as to what the standard is now
Mar 15th 2019
375
                               not tryna be snarky but reality is the standard.
Mar 15th 2019
383
                                    You have to look at context, here.
Mar 15th 2019
390
                                         entirely possible.
Mar 15th 2019
397
                                              Yes - Bernie will have to make inroads in the south
Mar 16th 2019
406
LOL at reading this in hindsight.
Nov 09th 2020
579
The rift in opinion here largely reflects disagreement on this:
Mar 15th 2019
363
There was a thing in Buzzfeed a little bit ago talking to D voters in
Mar 15th 2019
372
good read.
Mar 15th 2019
386
This is stating the obvious, but it's all about turnout
Mar 15th 2019
385
cant run a more centrist candiate than clinton, and she lost to a turnip
Mar 15th 2019
404
beto is refusing to release his 24 hr fundraising numbers.
Mar 15th 2019
389
RE: beto is refusing to release his 24 hr fundraising numbers.
Mar 15th 2019
392
basically his announcement video on social media platforms
Mar 15th 2019
394
      RE: basically his announcement video on social media platforms
Mar 15th 2019
396
           ive only seen him debate once.
Mar 15th 2019
399
this roll out is weird to me
Mar 15th 2019
393
this is another thing:
Mar 15th 2019
395
      right...and the most frustrating thing is
Mar 15th 2019
398
      i actually had an idea like that here:
Mar 15th 2019
400
           naw, Bernie is just unapologetically authentic.
Mar 15th 2019
402
                the sanders wing of the party was called the warren wing 4 years ago.
Mar 15th 2019
403
                     actually that's not true at all.
May 20th 2019
572
      yes
Mar 18th 2019
416
someone said he was really campaigning for VP
Mar 16th 2019
405
      this looked like a possibility til you see the money hes bringing in lol...
Mar 18th 2019
410
Yang, Tulsi, or Bernie...Warren close behind...but
Mar 16th 2019
408
so beto raised $6.1 million in his first 24 hours.
Mar 18th 2019
409
I will admit I did not think he could pull something like that off
Mar 18th 2019
411
i thought he could at first then i thought he didnt.
Mar 18th 2019
412
that surprised me
Mar 18th 2019
417
im laughing at all of the 'i told you so' takes on twitter today.
Mar 18th 2019
420
I thought his donors was one of his strongpoints
Mar 18th 2019
421
damn...
Mar 18th 2019
428
The Hell-No Caucus
Mar 18th 2019
413
Gillibrand has been getting lost in everything, but she's
Mar 19th 2019
435
which candidate(s) have yall donated to?
Mar 18th 2019
415
My wife gave a little bit to Pete, I'll do likewise
Mar 18th 2019
419
Whoa... it’s too early for all that.
Mar 18th 2019
422
fundraising plays a big part in how the field narrows babybro.
Mar 18th 2019
423
at this stage i think its important to show support for the lesser known
Mar 18th 2019
425
Yep way too early
Mar 18th 2019
429
      how do you think candidates run their campaign?
Mar 18th 2019
431
           Off big money donors
Mar 18th 2019
433
                bernie raised ~$6 mil in 24 hours with the avg donation around $27.
Mar 19th 2019
437
                     Sanders, who has near-universal name recognition
Mar 19th 2019
440
so far Tulsi and Bernie
Mar 19th 2019
438
donna brazile joins fox news.
Mar 18th 2019
424
doing a roundtable show w/Diamond and Silk? Fox would love that.
Mar 18th 2019
426
biden: i know i get criticized by the new left.
Mar 18th 2019
430
dat #bidensoprogressive hashtag tho! lol im cryin
Mar 18th 2019
432
I'm going to be madder at Biden 2020 than I was at Hillary 2008
Mar 19th 2019
434
mayor pete is my fav to listen to and would be most effective as pres im...
Mar 19th 2019
436
yeah its very early but I'm afraid it will be down to
Mar 19th 2019
439
      Yep it might be those three
Mar 19th 2019
442
Yang has met the threshold to debate
Mar 19th 2019
441
Warren crushed it last night
Mar 19th 2019
443
Laura Ingraham: Dems are playing the radicalization Olympics
Mar 21st 2019
444
update
Apr 12th 2019
446
whoever here described Yang as a little too tech-bro was dead on
Apr 12th 2019
450
I'm impressed by Mayor Pete. He's completely new to me
Apr 12th 2019
447
pete sounds so genuine
Apr 12th 2019
451
I could go a lot of ways depending on who drops out
Apr 12th 2019
448
How many are there now? Like 28? smh
Apr 12th 2019
449
its weird
Apr 12th 2019
452
Cenk Uygur reminds me of a fox news personaltiy
Apr 12th 2019
453
he reminds you of that, because that's exactly who he is
Apr 12th 2019
455
i can guarantee you there was no bigger tyt/cenk fan on here than me.
Apr 12th 2019
458
The big field just helps the frontrunners.
Apr 12th 2019
454
      Or results in a contested convention. In which everyone's preferences
Apr 12th 2019
457
      im surprised at how unfazed bidens numbers have been
Apr 12th 2019
459
      I tried to told y’all
Apr 14th 2019
460
           i feel you. i get the same criticism on here.
Apr 14th 2019
461
      It's funny because I thought the Democrats wouldn't nominate another
Apr 15th 2019
463
           bernie overtook biden in the latest poll
Apr 15th 2019
464
           oddly enough black voters in the south overwhelmingly prefer biden.
Apr 15th 2019
467
The field will thin out pretty quick. First debate/primaries will weed ...
Apr 12th 2019
456
Trump got money...lots of it
Apr 15th 2019
465
dem candidates raised 3x that amount combined.
Apr 15th 2019
466
All that (one figure vs many) is beside the point.
Apr 15th 2019
468
      its not beside the point. it is the point.
Apr 15th 2019
469
           It just depends on what point you're trying to make
Apr 15th 2019
470
                its really not that big of a deal.
Apr 15th 2019
471
                But they aren’t competing against Trump yet
Apr 17th 2019
477
how much is it from PACs??
Apr 15th 2019
472
      Money really IS money, though.
Apr 15th 2019
474
Bernie's the most popular, leads the polls and raises the most $
Apr 15th 2019
473
he SLAYED that fox shit...
Apr 17th 2019
476
      i saw pt 1 and it was great
Apr 17th 2019
479
I'm convinced that Pete Buttigieg will be on the ticket
Apr 17th 2019
475
RE: I'm convinced that Pete Buttigieg will be on the ticket
Apr 17th 2019
478
Every single interview he's done just adds to my support
Apr 22nd 2019
481
it seems all candidates are pledging to add diversity in the VP pick
Apr 17th 2019
480
      I hope that doesn't throw the baby with the bath water
Apr 22nd 2019
482
Liz Warren is quickly emerging as my early favorite.
Apr 22nd 2019
483
yup! she's been kicking ass the past week!!!
Apr 22nd 2019
484
policy and action wise shes up there with bernie
Apr 22nd 2019
485
Had she been able to reduce college cost in her state?
Apr 22nd 2019
492
      Well, nobody's gonna actually be able to DO what they promise.
Apr 22nd 2019
493
      Haha.. true
Apr 22nd 2019
495
      Was she governor? seems like an executive action thing
Apr 24th 2019
504
           yeah that's a strange bar to set for a US Senator
Apr 24th 2019
505
Pete Buttigieg Fired South Bend's Black Police Chief. It Still Stings .....
Apr 22nd 2019
486
It’s Indiana. Of course they said racist shit.
Apr 22nd 2019
487
Mayor Pete is hiding behind the law
Apr 22nd 2019
489
I've been liking him less the more he talks
Apr 22nd 2019
488
Same.
Apr 22nd 2019
490
this is sus but it hasn't turned me off completely
Apr 24th 2019
499
he's also supported reparations plainly and publicly
May 20th 2019
570
Biden's got an event on Wednesday in CHARLOTTESVILLE
Apr 22nd 2019
491
RE: Biden's got an event on Wednesday in CHARLOTTESVILLE
Apr 22nd 2019
494
Damn. I kinda hate Biden now.
Apr 23rd 2019
497
      I honestly think a lot of people don't know Biden
Apr 23rd 2019
498
           He definitely benefits from the Obama connection.
Apr 24th 2019
503
dude's whole career outside of obama has been racist AF
Apr 22nd 2019
496
The Charlottesville thing was cancelled, now I guess it's
Apr 24th 2019
500
Which is why he has a real good shot to win
Apr 24th 2019
501
him calling Obama 'clean' will forever check him in a box
Apr 24th 2019
507
Warren*/Sanders 2020
Apr 24th 2019
502
I thought it's been shown that there is no evidence that she ever took
Apr 24th 2019
506
I'd love to see Warren in a cabinet position.
Apr 24th 2019
508
And another one. Michael Bennet, Colorado senator
May 02nd 2019
509
May as well delete this thread no joke.
May 02nd 2019
510
not only that, but they want to work with him
May 02nd 2019
511
      Pretty much all this. Plus the ACA dismantling.
May 02nd 2019
512
      So much that participating in the process seems damned near pointless...
May 02nd 2019
513
      For damn sure.
May 02nd 2019
516
      Agreed. And his defense attorney
May 02nd 2019
514
      This sounds like horrible strategy.
May 02nd 2019
515
           Which differs from the ass-fucking we're currently experiencing ...
May 02nd 2019
517
           right
May 02nd 2019
519
           Pelosi said impeachment is a "waste of time" unless you get ...
May 02nd 2019
521
           When we ran an election on health care and Trump's lawlessness,
May 02nd 2019
522
                The House was historic. Didn't win the Senate.
May 02nd 2019
525
           like I said the timing is awful imo
May 02nd 2019
518
                Well see I don't think it's a charade, I think they're trying to put ...
May 02nd 2019
520
                Do you actually think there's anything Dem leaders could do...
May 02nd 2019
524
                     Nope - have been consistent w/that.
May 02nd 2019
526
                Your opinion seems highly dependent on the assumption...
May 02nd 2019
523
                     missed this but
May 14th 2019
528
I feel like I see some excitement for Warren bubbling up.
May 14th 2019
527
This isn’t true at all. Plenty of dudes run and get zero traction
May 14th 2019
529
I was specifically talking about the non-specific, ambiguous diss of
May 14th 2019
535
Another Example of her being angry. Name another Candidate who has
May 14th 2019
541
      yeah the Fox News thing shows she can
May 14th 2019
542
she has impressed me a lot
May 14th 2019
530
shes the grownup bernie lol.
May 14th 2019
537
      agreed
May 14th 2019
540
I've been warming up to Warren a lot lately.
May 14th 2019
531
I find Corey Booker way more old school and Bernie way more old.
May 14th 2019
539
      I like that, "Reverse Obama"
May 15th 2019
547
She's my #1 at the moment
May 14th 2019
532
Mine too
May 15th 2019
552
shes been on fire.
May 14th 2019
533
I just hope my North East surroundings ain't got me fooled.
May 14th 2019
536
      you know how that goes.
May 14th 2019
538
I feel like she has what it takes to win. She's got the right strategy
May 14th 2019
534
I like her a lot but it would be Drumf vs. HRC part 2 in the general
May 14th 2019
543
The HRC comparisons are a bit lazy but I think her biggest optic liabili...
May 15th 2019
545
      every dem woman is hrc.
May 15th 2019
546
Yea E-Dubs is my #1.
May 14th 2019
544
      She should do townhalls non-stop. She should challenge any Republican
May 15th 2019
548
           She's excellent at town halls. She's kind of folksy on that platform
May 15th 2019
549
It seems like each of the major candidates has to have a rough
May 15th 2019
550
The media hates frontrunners and loves shiny new objects.
May 15th 2019
551
channels like msnbc tried their hardest to push elizabeth warren
May 16th 2019
555
it does take a good bit of retail political savvy to survive a media hit...
May 16th 2019
561
      Warren handled that the best way she could, by dropping it
May 16th 2019
568
id rather they form like Voltron
May 15th 2019
553
pro-bernie outlets are going scorched earth on elizabeth warren.
May 16th 2019
554
dats dumb cuz when biden announced only berndog numbers dropped
May 16th 2019
557
this
May 16th 2019
560
Declared candidate #23. DeBlasio throws his hat into the gumbo
May 16th 2019
556
Gonna be 30 candidates by the first debate
May 16th 2019
558
Why is he doing this?
May 16th 2019
559
He's bored and hates being mayor.
May 16th 2019
563
      So go eat a slice from every pizzaria in NYC and blog about it
May 16th 2019
566
So wait, he looked at the landscape and said to himself...
May 16th 2019
562
jesus...question for those familiar with primary rules
May 16th 2019
564
The GOP did this in 2016
May 16th 2019
565
RE: The GOP did this in 2016
May 16th 2019
569
DNC Wildin' Out - bracketed freestyle battles instead of debates
May 16th 2019
567
      lolz
May 20th 2019
571
Exactly who i thought of when Edmure Tully took his 10sec run at king
May 21st 2019
573
Do people really see something in Beto?
May 21st 2019
574
Meh, I kind of think Warren might should have done a Fox Town Hall.
May 22nd 2019
575
I get what you're saying but I'm fine with her taking the stand she did.
May 22nd 2019
576
RE: Who do you want to win the Dem nomination? (initial poll)
Apr 10th 2020
577
"only on OKP" n/m
Nov 09th 2020
578
look at this damn poll bwhahahahahahah
Nov 09th 2020
580
A reminder.. this poll asked us who we WANTED to win
Nov 09th 2020
581
did people forget there were 2 or 3 polls/posts after this?
Nov 09th 2020
582
      Yeah I think there were more. I looked for myself because I swear
Nov 09th 2020
583
           My wife couldn’t understand why I voted Bernie
Nov 09th 2020
584

Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 11:57 AM

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1. "I like Warren's policies the best so far"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not 100% committed to voting for her next March when my state has a primary. Outside of Tulsi, Biden and Klobuchar, I could see myself theoretically voting for anyone else in the primary (and I'll vote for whoever wins the nom in the general.) I do care about electability in a general election, but that's impossible to tell at this point, so right now I'm focusing on policy. The debates will be big for me, and I can take some comfort in the fact that there's going to be a lot of candidates who get eliminated between now and then.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 12:59 PM

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5. "what about her foreign policy do you like?"
In response to Reply # 1


          


-->

  

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Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 01:43 PM

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9. "Getting out of Afghanistan/ending support for the Saudi campaign"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

in Yemen. Also, would not have thought the fact that she agrees with the phrase "it is the policy of the United States to not use nuclear weapons first" would be a big deal, but it kinda is now and it's fucked that we've never actually had this policy. She's also talked about cutting the defense budget, but I'm not actually expecting any American president to follow through on that.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 01:55 PM

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11. "She's not particularly insightful on foreign policy"
In response to Reply # 9
Tue Feb-19-19 01:59 PM by Vex_id

          

but I agree with you on the positives of her positions that you referenced. She was infamously found running from questions on Israel and its targeting of protesters in Gaza. She also hasn't had a strong stance against regime change wars (until very recently) - and endorsed Clinton by citing her strength in foreign policy. That's really poor judgment.

I don't think we can afford to have a President right now who is not particularly interested in foreign policy and repairing the deep wounds that the Trump Administration has inflicted all across the world. I love Warren's domestic policies - but don't see her as having the necessary command of global affairs that a President needs.

That said - I do love a lot about Warren.

-->

  

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Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 02:24 PM

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15. "I would like more of a focus on foreign policy in the Dem party"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

It was barely an afterthought in 2016 and hasn't been talked about much in the run up to 2020 so far.

That and prospective cabinet appointments (I'm warming more and more to Buddy's suggestion of unveiling a prospective cabinet during the campaign) are two things that a president can actually influence without needing legislation to pass congress, so I really hope there are several debates that focus on FP.

------

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XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 07:30 PM

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42. "The convention spent most of two days on bullshit militarism."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

  

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Vex_id
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65616 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 01:51 AM

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57. "agreed - and I think it's a vastly underrated facet of 2020."
In response to Reply # 15


          

>It was barely an afterthought in 2016 and hasn't been talked
>about much in the run up to 2020 so far.
>
>That and prospective cabinet appointments (I'm warming more
>and more to Buddy's suggestion of unveiling a prospective
>cabinet during the campaign) are two things that a president
>can actually influence without needing legislation to pass
>congress, so I really hope there are several debates that
>focus on FP.


-->

  

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Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 03:27 PM

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21. "It's got to be our least democratic political arena"
In response to Reply # 11
Tue Feb-19-19 03:36 PM by Walleye

          

I feel like my role as a voter and a cog in the economy gives me some (very, very little but still real) voice in how decisions are made on a lot of domestic issues, but I've never felt that way about our foreign policy - particularly with respect to our military (though foreign trade also seems un-democratized) spending and engagements. And that feels pretty supportable by looking at the utter marginalization of the anti-war movement. 9-11 just destroyed it. Chris Cuomo is more likely to host an explicit, avowed communist than somebody taking the normal and morally obvious position: war is bad and we shouldn't do it. Try supporting that with the observation that the last seventy years pretty much proves we're not capable of intervening in other nation's affairs without destructively pushing our own interest and you sound like a crank and a conspiracy nut.

It's a giant bummer, and even outside the fact that our military engagements are expensive, dangerous, and evil, it also lacks political foresight because it gives that ground to the populist right. Tucker Carlson's already revising Trump's anti-intellectualism with moral language even though he's clearly coming from an evil and cynical place. The left *needs* a robust anti-war movement to keep these centrist melts from using endless war and troop-respecting to burnish their "pragmatic" credentials and punting away things like "peace" and "not intentionally doing genocide" to a cynical right who just doesn't care.

An easy start is refusing to acknowledge voices who supported the Iraq War. Support for that absurdly destructive lie should disqualify any figures from speaking publicly about what is good and right for America or the world again. They're either evil or stupid.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Vex_id
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65616 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 01:53 AM

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58. "you know it's bad when Tucker Carlson is bodying the left"
In response to Reply # 21


          

on foreign policy. Democrats have actually been fairly easily manipulated into supporting wars and disastrous interventionism.

>An easy start is refusing to acknowledge voices who supported
>the Iraq War. Support for that absurdly destructive lie should
>disqualify any figures from speaking publicly about what is
>good and right for America or the world again. They're either
>evil or stupid.

Absolutely. We have a very difficult time in telling the truth and acknowledging wrongs in this country. The Iraq War was based on a lie - and the rush to war after 9/11 amounted to a litany of war crimes that have largely been ignored by our body politic. It has to come to an end before a new Cold War erupts.

-->

  

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Walleye
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15521 posts
Thu Feb-21-19 08:43 AM

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112. "No history, no future"
In response to Reply # 58


          

>We have a very difficult time in telling the
>truth and acknowledging wrongs in this country.

That's a really appropriate way to put it, and I like it even more because it understands our current political state as one of continuity, not rupture. Trump is more overt, more crass, and potentially more dangerous for his shamelessness. But our long history of unaccountable violence here and abroad means he's not new. And when we ignore our horrifying past, it permits us to characterize Trump as uncharacteristic lapse in traditional American values rather than a cartoonish-but-consistent articulation of those values.

One day he'll be gone. Defeated in an election. Leaving in a helicopter after two miserable terms. Dead on a toilet from natural causes. Resigned. Impeached. But if we've continued to use him as a shield from our past, then there's no future that's meaningfully better. I'm not good enough with political theory to engage Marx on the terms that he deserves, but one thing that is inspiring about his work is the clear-eyed understanding of our role in making history. We relentlessly characterize things like the suffocation of capitalism or imperialist war as natural forces like gravity because they were there yesterday and the day before and the day before and we can't imagine a world without them. But an actual political effort to re-understand, confront, and reckon with our past reframes Trump as somebody who is congruent with American values but, most importantly, doesn't have to be tomorrow.

I don't quite yet share your enthusiasm for Gabbard, but the presidential race and American politics needs her voice so I hope she hangs in there for awhile.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Tue Feb-19-19 12:38 PM

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2. "Ranked: 1.Bernie, 2.Warren, 3.Kamala, 4.Beto, 5.Biden"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
https://twitch.tv/djchiefone

----Mixtape Archives-----
https://soundcloud.com/djchiefone

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 01:33 PM

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6. "My Ranking: 1.Beto, 2.Bernie, 3.Warren, 4.Kamala"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

big drop from there and no real preference between the rest.

its looking like we have some good choices. if it was 100% policies it would be bernie/warren.

  

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IkeMoses
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Tue Feb-19-19 01:53 PM

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10. "Same. I might switch Beto and Kamala, but they neck and neck."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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falafel stand pimpin
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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Tue Feb-19-19 12:41 PM

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3. "Bernie/Tulsi ticket"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11819 posts
Thu Feb-21-19 10:08 PM

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128. "*stands in this line*"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
16125 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 12:57 PM

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4. "Warren/O'Rourke"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

or Bernie/Warren

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Tue Feb-19-19 01:38 PM

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7. "This Bernie announcement has me kinda shook"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 01:39 PM

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8. "$1 million in under 4 hours"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

  

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Vex_id
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14. "up to $3 million and counting. "
In response to Reply # 8


          


-->

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Tue Feb-19-19 01:56 PM

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12. "None in this poll"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and none in that link.

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Tue Feb-19-19 01:57 PM

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13. "who then?"
In response to Reply # 12


          

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
5186 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 02:37 PM

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19. "need more time "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

it's too early to pick anyone.

---------------------------
Signature

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 02:27 PM

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16. "i'm so over bernie but i'd probably go with him"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Kamala aka Hillary Jr would need to do some major work between now and primary season for me to move that direction bc i already know she's gonna have the most momentum out of everyone not named bernie

im mostly on the fence with everyone but bernie at the moment but that could change...Bernie's age is killing me but Trump is old as fuck too so it's just one of those things i don't like but can get over

My biggest eyeroll with Bernie is that i think he's helped push left enough which would likely bring other candidates to middle-left so i feel like he could easily put that energy behind a younger candidate with some chops

I'm not a Gabbard fan yet...she's basically the non-establishment Kamala for me...the Bernie association feels flimsy at times so I don't think she is that younger candidate but she could be



Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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ThaTruth
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99998 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 02:28 PM

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17. "no white people over 70"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85056 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 07:55 PM

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44. "RE: no white people"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 12:20 AM

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51. "dems never elect a president older than the preceding repub."
In response to Reply # 17
Wed Feb-20-19 12:22 AM by Reeq

          

so if history holds up...sanders/biden/etc are either not winning the nomination...or theyre getting the nom and losing the general.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 01:12 AM

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53. "So you’re off Biden now? For good?"
In response to Reply # 51


          


All it took was Bernie running? Why didn’t this “too old”
logic apply last week, etc?

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed Feb-20-19 03:43 AM

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59. "fam this is really getting annoying. i literally said the same thing"
In response to Reply # 53


          

a few weeks ago.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13306367&mesg_id=13306367&listing_type=search#13306652

you could have just asked me instead of confidently assuming and being dead wrong (starting to become a pattern with you now).

and ive already told you how i feel about biden. but its like groundhog day again with you any time i bring his name up.

ive mentioned his age plenty of times over the past 2 years. even said he would normally be a subpar candidate.
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13211439&mesg_id=13211439&listing_type=search#13211534

my judgment of his candidacy is strictly based on the current environment and seeing voter sentiment/feedback to his possible candidacy. you know...actually looking at the information in front of me from a broad set of sources instead of just going off my personal wishes.

iono whats been going on with you lately but youre turning into one of those loud and wrong posters that hounds people with a bunch of erroneous/mischaracterized bullshit and wastes *everyones* time in the process.

seriously are you ok?

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 12:10 PM

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86. "not sure why it had to get personal, but lets go"
In response to Reply # 59
Wed Feb-20-19 12:16 PM by Stadiq

          

>a few weeks ago.
>
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13306367&mesg_id=13306367&listing_type=search#13306652
>

Reeq, I got nothing but love for you man, and respect the hell out of how informed you are- but you flip flop like shit on establishment candidates...and take a very different approach with candidates favored by the party that those more on the outside.

The reasons I've hounded you on this specific issue-

1. I think Joe Biden would be just about the worst candidate to run in 2020. In several back and forths with you, you have either ignored my points or simply said "your opinion"...you have refused to engage in an honest or open minded way.

2. The above irks me because I thought we had a better back and forth than that. AND Vex has admitted more faults in Tulsi than you have your big 3 candidates. In your attempt to carry water for the party, you are starting to come off like a hypocrite.

3. You pick and choose when to use polls and precedent. In the link above, you say that Dems never win with an older candidate than the previous president.

When I point out that Dems have never won running a "try-again" like Biden, you shrug it off.

>you could have just asked me instead of confidently assuming
>and being dead wrong (starting to become a pattern with you
>now).

Huh? I did ask you. Are you off him for good now? You have literally gone back and forth on him. The two links you even posted to "get" me show you are back and forth.

>
>and ive already told you how i feel about biden. but its like
>groundhog day again with you any time i bring his name up.
>
>ive mentioned his age plenty of times over the past 2 years.
>even said he would normally be a subpar candidate.
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13211439&mesg_id=13211439&listing_type=search#13211534

But you didn't rule him out because of his age. In fact, in this post your literally said that people wont care.

So you just posted a link saying his age doesn't matter. Well, not until Bernie ran.

Can you not see what a hypocrite your being?

You'll attack Tulsi for flip flopping, but not Kamala.


You'll attack Bernie for being old and not moving on, yet it hadn't ruled out Biden for you.

You'll praise Beto for raising money, but I haven't seen any love for Bernie on this topic (I may have missed it).

You'll post a "gotcha" Biden poll, then ignore that Bernie is in second place in those polls.

And, you cherry pick polls. You know you do.

Etc, Etc


Its frustrating because you are starting to lose credibility to me, and up to this point I have deferred to your judgement on most things.

But you deflecting and/or glossing over issues with your preferred candidates is getting old.



>
>my judgment of his candidacy is strictly based on the current
>environment and seeing voter sentiment/feedback to his
>possible candidacy. you know...actually looking at the
>information in front of me from a broad set of sources instead
>of just going off my personal wishes.

? But you don't apply the same "hey I'm just being objective" reasoning when it doesn't suit you.

For instance, Bernie being 2nd in those polls. Or Bernie's overall popularity.

Or your refusal to admit that h
Biden is benefiting from name recognition, etc.

>
>iono whats been going on with you lately but youre turning
>into one of those loud and wrong posters that hounds people
>with a bunch of erroneous/mischaracterized bullshit and wastes
>*everyones* time in the process.

Stop it Reeq. This is bull shit.

I've been hounding you on this because you refuse to engage in an honest way.

And wasting time? You'll write essays waxing poetic about AOC and her faults, you'll post every Tulsi slam you can find, search the net for polls that support your theories...but don't have time to sincerely discuss Biden's issues, and your own flip flopping on the topic?

Who else's time have I wasted?

Not to mention, its okayplayer...this is all a time waste.

>
>seriously are you ok?

I'm fine. I'm just getting frustrated seeing people return to old 16 habits...like you trying to convince everyone the only way to beat Trump is to sprint to the middle again.


  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Thu Feb-21-19 09:08 AM

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115. "https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpz81S7usvTIM8w/giphy.gif"
In response to Reply # 86


          

https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpz81S7usvTIM8w/giphy.gif

_______________________________________

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Feb-21-19 11:25 AM

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118. "like 90% of your criticism of me is that i dont show bernie enough love."
In response to Reply # 86
Thu Feb-21-19 11:54 AM by Reeq

          

no matter how you try to couch it...it revolves around an axis of bernie. you shoehorn him into every convo.

why do i not think age is an issue with biden but i do with bernie?

why do i post polls with biden at the top but not mention bernie?

why do i ignore kamalas flaws but not bernies?

why do i praise beto for raising money but not bernie?


bernie bernie bernie. marsha marsha marsha. lol.



when somebody else calls you a bernie bro...i never really saw it that way. but i gotta admit...its starting to look that way now.

it makes sense why you would use 'establishment' as a pejorative potshot...simply because i support some democratic candidates more than bernie. that doesnt make me establishment. that just makes me a damn democrat lol.

but you view everything through bernie tinted lenses.

'establishment' to you just means democrats who arent bernie or his allies. thats how the definition has been narrowed by you (and most of bernies fans)...despite the fact bernie has been in congress for 30 years...voting in line with the democratic 'establishment'...and rehashing/taking credit for policies that have been proposed by 'establishment' democrats for years (like conyers and m4a).


you just had other neutral observers on here call you out for your slanted perspective. maybe take that as a cue to pull back and self-reflect.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Fri Feb-22-19 11:19 PM

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160. "You are completely off man. Its crazy. This is about Biden mostly"
In response to Reply # 118
Fri Feb-22-19 11:23 PM by Stadiq

          

That isn't even close to the truth.

Why won't you have an honest conversation about Biden, Beto, or Kamala?

Its that simple. You play mr objective with everyone else but those three.

You and I literally went back and forth a few weeks ago AGREEING that we hoped Bernie wouldn't run. We. Were. On. The. Same. Page.

I even talked you down from freaking out about it.


So because I am pointing out that you have different standards for Joe Biden, I'm a Bernie bro now?


Are you for real?


Don't play dumb. I am using Bernie vs Biden to shed light on your hypocrisy and you know it.

I've brought up Bernie so much because I think he is wrong for a lot of the reasons I think Biden is wrong.

And he is the best example to shed light on your hypocrisy regarding biden.

You really can't see that?

If Bernie is too old, so is Biden.

If Bernie would stop us from moving forward from 16 as a party, so would Biden.




You know that's my point. But you jumped to the Bernie Bro thing as an easy out.

And I honestly don't recall anyone calling me a Bernie bro recently. I was called that because I had objections to Clinton.

Again, I have been on record saying I don't want Bernie to run- often in talks with you lol lol.

And I cringed this week because I dread the divisiveness.

Cmon man.


You KNOW my point. You are being a hypocrite on Biden.


Just admit it man. We are all opinionated. We are all capable of being wrong, too. Even you.

Just admit that calling me a Bernie Bro was bullshit deflection, because you just WANT Biden based on YOUR OPINION...not some holier than though objectivity.

Thats it. Thats my point.


>no matter how you try to couch it...it revolves around an
>axis of bernie. you shoehorn him into every convo.
>
>why do i not think age is an issue with biden but i do with
>bernie?
>
>why do i post polls with biden at the top but not mention
>bernie?

Right, why? Why do you have different standards?

>
>why do i ignore kamalas flaws but not bernies?

On this specific point, I went to Tulsi...who you know I hate. So now you are just making shit up. Cmon man.


>
>why do i praise beto for raising money but not bernie?
>
>
>bernie bernie bernie. marsha marsha marsha. lol.


Yeah, that isn't it. Anyone being objective can see that. I am just pointing out your moving goal posts for your favorite.


>
>
>
>when somebody else calls you a bernie bro...i never really saw
>it that way. but i gotta admit...its starting to look that
>way now.
>

Because I disagree with you? Because I think there are issues with Biden/Beto/Kamala that you overlook or refuse to address?


>it makes sense why you would use 'establishment' as a
>pejorative potshot...simply because i support some democratic
>candidates more than bernie. that doesnt make me
>establishment. that just makes me a damn democrat lol.

If I wasn't clear here, I am sorry. My point is that you apply different standards for your preferred candidates, who as a fact, are more establishment candidates.

We agree on a lot, but you have a lot more faith in the party than I do. That isn't new.

That doesn't make me now, or ever, a Bernie Bro.



>
>but you view everything through bernie tinted lenses.
>
>'establishment' to you just means democrats who arent bernie
>or his allies. thats how the definition has been narrowed by
>you (and most of bernies fans)...despite the fact bernie has
>been in congress for 30 years...voting in line with the
>democratic 'establishment'...and rehashing/taking credit for
>policies that have been proposed by 'establishment' democrats
>for years (like conyers and m4a).

Are you okay? Have you forgotten our interactions the last few months? You need to up your multi-vitamins man, your memory is failing you.

Bernie stans have been driving me nuttso. You know this. We have talked about it.

This isn't about Bernie.


Its about you applying different standards to your big 3, under the guise of objectivity.


I just wish you would be more honest, and stop trying to say you are just being objective.


>
>
>you just had other neutral observers on here call you out for
>your slanted perspective. maybe take that as a cue to pull
>back and self-reflect.


I self reflect all the time. I initially popped off like an idiot to you in that AOC thread, and for that I am sorry for real. I took a few well-deserved Ls.

I can have a short fuse and big mouth sometimes...and those things are definitely correlated with my blood alc content lol. No excuse, but I am sorry.



Do you self reflect? Seriously, you really think this back and forth has been all my bad? All me being a Bernie Bro? For real??


Cuz you are dodging a lot my points like a fucking professional politician.


You are also playing dumb like one too. You know I'm not a Bernie bro.

If anything, this is about my loathing for people who think running Joe Biden as Clinton part2 is the path to victory.

And the fact that you have refused MULTIPLE times to sincerely engage me on this point has been extremely disappointing.


Biden can "run on Obama's popularity, can present an option to moderate Republicans" etc...


You refuse to even admit that shit sounds familiar. Or even sincerely acknowledge other points I've made.


"Yeah Stadiq, I admit that does sound like 2016...but I'm still rolling with Joe cuz of x,x, and x"

"Yo homey you are right now that you mention it, the Dems have never elected a try-again in our lives. But I'm still rolling with Joe cuz..."

"Stadiq, you bring up a good point about the media making false equivalencies out of Biden and Trump's missteps...the media is trash. I'm still rolling with him tho, cuz of x..."



Nope. Its deflect and call me a Bernie Bro.

Quality discourse? Not lately.


Why?



  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Sat Feb-23-19 10:51 AM

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161. "good brother take the rest of the weekend to cool off. you need it."
In response to Reply # 160


          

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Sat Feb-23-19 07:39 PM

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162. "Lol damn folks were right about you"
In response to Reply # 161


          


You really do just deflect. I always figured you were just
too busy, etc- even defended you at times.

But you are just straight up ignoring my points,
and calling everyone who disagrees with you a
Bernie bro like you’re staviskan or whatever.

And now telling me to cool off, when all I did was
give you a detailed response...okay player.

You really cant take it when people just don’t defer
to you.

Sad shit man.

I’m done with this. You really should take a step
back and reflect on yourself and how you come off.

I fucked some things up but at least I can admit it *shrugs*

Either way please stop generalizing people who disagree/
question you.




  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sat Feb-23-19 08:16 PM

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164. "He never did come back in the Beto post "
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

after the conversation shifted to his voting record aligning with Rs and the campaign contributions

At least you see it now

DEFLECT DEFLECT, LOL.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 02:29 PM

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95. "That's such a weird statistic lol"
In response to Reply # 51


          

Not convinced it means anything at all though

_______________________________________

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49394 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 02:36 PM

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18. "Biden/Harris "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yeah I am a centrist.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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rawsouthpaw
Charter member
15496 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 03:20 PM

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20. "vote for daddy bernie, bitch" - cardi b"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-19-19 03:22 PM by rawsouthpaw

  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCySD7GlKA



It’s Still Bernie

BY
AMBER A'LEE FROST

Don't listen to the media and think tank clowns — it's still Bernie.



The substance of Elizabeth Warren’s political rhetoric is dominated by banks and corporations — obvious and odious targets, to be sure. She speaks positively, but vaguely, about labor unions. In 2013 she advocated for a minimum wage increase to $10 an hour over the course of two years — tragically modest in the time of Fight for $15. She’s helped make some mild reforms to student debt, but nothing so great as to be noticeable for a young person debilitated by loans. She’s made no great stink about socialized health care or higher education. Aside from financial regulation, it’s actually quite unclear what a Warren presidential program would be…

This dandy little bit of self-plagiarism is from three years ago, when I attended a painfully nerdy and shamefully self-congratulatory event to “Draft Warren” into the presidential primaries. It was a farcical gathering of Type-A Tracy Flicks, barely worth the free booze, and even the assembled nerds quickly realized this Lisa Simpson of a dark-horse candidate wasn’t as inspiring to the masses as she was to them, and we all moved on.

And what we moved onto was Bernie — our indefatigable, unwavering, incorruptible Bernie! And we very nearly won, despite despicable sabotage from the DNC. Bernie was the leader of a movement that fundamentally ended the Cold War of the American mind; he changed the face of American politics, acted as midwife to a nascent insurgent left, and achieved more in a few months of mass political action than Elizabeth Warren did in her whole political life.

It was true then and it’s true now: Bernie Sanders is the best candidate — the only candidate who could be considered anything even close to socialist, and the one to beat Trump. A President Sanders isn’t some idealist fantasy, he is our best bet by a mile. He has consistently polled as the most popular politician in America since the primaries, and while everyone else has been tweeting (or following up with 23andMe) Bernie pressured Amazon into raising wages, followed up by going after Walmart, condemned Saudi Arabia and sponsored the resolution to end support for the war in Yemen, introduced the No Money Bail Act, committed to a federal job guarantee, campaigned so powerfully for Medicare for All that he shifted the entire Democratic Party, and saved a woman from being hit by a car. Not only is he the best candidate politically (as in, the only social democrat), he has the best chance of giving the “pragmatists” what say they want: a presidential win.

Unfortunately, a few of my media colleagues appear to have caught the Warren bug yet again, but this time around she lacks the good sense to refuse to run.

Elizabeth Warren’s politics aren’t impressive, and they never have been; all she has ever leaned on is a rigid obsession with the sort of basic financial regulation that barely mitigates capitalism’s greatest crimes. She’s not charismatic and appears to have absolutely zero understanding of what voters want in a candidate, as indicated by her pre-campaign soft launch on a bit of specious family lore about Native American heritage. Literally, no one cares, and yet she keeps doubling down on it. She chokes, she flinches, she reacts every time Trump insults her, and thus the public is far more familiar with her defensive “Orange Man is Mean to Me” ethnic delusion than they are her “Accountable Capitalism Act” (really inspiring name there, Liz).

Warren, who didn’t stop voting Republican until 1995, said in 2011, “I was a Republican because I thought that those were the people who best supported markets. I think that is not true anymore.” Again displaying her tone-deaf penchant for doubling down when the situation desperately calls for changing the subject, she explained further that “I was a Republican at a time when I felt like there was a problem that the markets were under a lot more strain. It worried me whether or not the government played too activist a role,” and then she declined to say if she voted for Ronald Reagan. (Incidentally, these quotes came from Daily Beast interview titled “I Created Occupy Wall Street,” an ungenerous fudge on Warren’s original statement that she “created much of the intellectual foundation of what they do,” and her professed support for the Occupy insurgency. One might still accuse her of taking too much credit for the “movement,” but given the futility and ultimate failure of Occupy, I’d argue it’s actually pretty fair to call her its Fairy Godmother.)

There’s no reason to believe that a goody-goody technocrat would fare better in 2020 than fellow neoliberal loser Hillary Clinton did in the prior presidential cycle. And yet here’s Hamilton Nolan in Splinter, who titles his anyone-but-Trump political polemic, “Bernie Don’t Run.”

I don’t really give a damn who it is. Warren, or Kamala Harris, or Sherrod Brown, or whoever. Pick one and get behind them from the very beginning. Any solid top-tier true left-wing candidate should, barring a serious fuck-up, be able to win the Democratic nomination if Bernie Sanders hands them all of his supporters on a platter.

I hate to break it to you, HamNo, but the voters actually do give a damn who it is, as evidenced by the fact that Bernie was previously unable to hand Hillary “all of his supporters on a platter.” They didn’t want Hillary, or really any neoliberal. And why should they?

Barack Obama was the very last “horoscope candidate” — a politician who manages to speak so vaguely that his platform could mean anything to anyone. It’s not going to work this time around; the Democratic Party is not going to be able trick people into believing that Liz Warren is a social democrat. Ditto for Kamala “Cop” Harris, a woman whose duplicitous record as a prosecutor includes the defense of the death penalty, three strikes laws, and the imprisonment of single mothers for the truancy of their children. You really think you can convince anyone that Kamala Harris is a woman of the people? Sherrod Brown has gone all in with Russiagate hysteria (also he signs his tweets). And before you even think of it, don’t even bother with Beto, who is to the right of all of the aforementioned, and votes to the right of the median Democrat. His district is majority Democratic, so he could plausibly vote to storm the Winter Palace and still keep his seat, but he joined the New Democrat Caucus in order to advance business interests. You can’t just astroturf any shitty neoliberal hack into the hearts and minds of the Bernie voter; if you could, we’d have President Hillary right now.

The coming election cycle will be an extremely difficult and fraught one. The Democrats might not be able win with any candidate; even the worst presidents seem all to serve for two terms now, and frankly, a lot of people have very little faith in electoral change. And despite all the #resistance hysteria, for the time being, the majority of the electorate haven’t seen the sort of plummet in quality of life that inspires droves of voters to cast a ballot for Anyone But Trump. The Donald hasn’t actually deviated that much from the neoliberal trajectory of his predecessors (remember, Obama shot tear gas at the border too), and you can’t expect people who don’t spend all day on Twitter to feel that motivated to combat what is essentially the gradual continuation of previous administrations. (Hell, he’s already more anti-war than Obama.)

And even if we could get a President Gillibrand in 2020, another lukewarm Democratic presidency will not only further impoverish and destabilize the working class and its suffering institutions; it will also all but guarantee that 2024 brings us POTUS Hamburglar in an SS uniform. No, HamNo, it’s Bernie or bust. I don’t care if we have to roll him out on a hand truck and sprinkle cocaine into his coleslaw before every speech. If he dies mid-run, we’ll stuff him full of sawdust, shove a hand up his ass and operate him like a goddamn muppet.

At first glance, it might seem strange to abandon the winning candidate for “pragmatic” reasons, but I have my suspicions as to why a lot of people who should know better are doing it right now. I suspect it has something to do with caution, or at least the professional credibility a writer gains by appearing to heed such caution. Call it “pressimism” if you want, but journalists are generally treated as more judicious when they aim low during times of crisis (it was one thing to support Bernie when we all thought Hillary would win, but now we have to get “serious” and stump for a shitty candidate, lest the New York Times think you too idealistic). Pressimism is regarded by the industry not as cynicism, diffidence, cowardice or even just plain poor judgment, but as prudence. I call it hedging your bets. But since we have a real shot here, it’s time to keep the faith and go all in. Otherwise, 1) No one will ever let you forget it; and 2) you’ll have to spend years eating crow.


And for the love of God, learn to exercise your scoffing muscles. Don’t get drawn into show-trial debates when someone is obviously merely attempting to defame, discredit, or otherwise malign the Sanders campaign. Yes, there are guileless and gentle souls who might voice concern about Sanders’ prospects, policies or appeal to women and minorities, and with those people we have conversations. Kindly, confidently and thoroughly we explain, over and over, again how Bernie Sanders is the best candidate for the working class — and we then spell out, with the same saintly patience, that this means all of the working class. But as for the liberal media, and for those who would disingenuously invoke identity politics to attack the socialist, just remember the magic words: “I know what you’re doing right now and it doesn’t work on me.” Remember, they’re trying to trip you up, wear you down, and waste your precious time. (Luckily, they’re utter clowns; elite whiners who pout that everyone is being too mean to them and to their favored milquetoast candidate.) The hit pieces against Bernie have already started to pour in, and we cannot concede a single inch to bad-faith liberals. Steel yourselves against the pseudo-progressive manipulation tactics and moral blackmail that put you on the back foot.

Fellow soft-handed scribblers, if indeed you are a socialist first then indeed you must be a contrarian pundit second, and this is your one opportunity to drop the professional artifice of “constructive criticism from the left” and choose socialism over media strategy. There are no “impartial” spectators on this one; only partisans and compradors. This is not some college debate where you get extra points for novelty and precocious dissidence, and it’s not some office pool where heated but distant speculations on the tournament are an amusing pastime with colleagues around the water cooler. This involves nothing less than the real, live fate of every single person in America (and most people outside of it).




If you have strayed, all is forgiven, but you better come to Jesus right now, because memories are long and history judges the cowardly squish far more harshly than the honest enemy. And you can’t say that no one was there at the time to tell you that this was it, that this was the pivotal moment where you had to make the right choice.

Partisan isn’t a dirty word, it’s nice out here (on the right side of history), and if you keep sitting on that fence you’re gonna get splinters in your ass. So hop aboard the Bernie train (choo-chooooo)! We got ourselves a winner. It’s Bernie, bitch, and it’s the only game in town.


https://jacobinmag.com/2019/01/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-democratic-primary-baffler-amber-frost

  

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biscuit
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22. "A vote for Bernie = Trump"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-19-19 03:44 PM by biscuit

  

          

Fools learned nothing.

Byeeeeeeeeee!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

*Effasig*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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25. "I am not pro Bernie but I don't understand this logic. "
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

Isn't the lesson from 2016 that running a centrist moderate was a mistake?



**********
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stravinskian
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28. "Only if you assumed someone less "moderate" would have won."
In response to Reply # 25


          


You could just as well argue that our candidate wasn't moderate enough.

Hillary was running as a progressive way before anyone was even paying attention to Bernie. Bernie just made her look like a moderate by taking all of her proposals and (mindlessly) dialing them up by a single tick. The public option became M4A; $12 federal minimum wage became $15; free community college became free four-year college; ...

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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45. "RE: Only if you assumed someone less "moderate" would have won."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          


>Hillary was running as a progressive way before anyone was
>even paying attention to Bernie.

Hill Dawg the progressive? LMAO 🤣

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Mynoriti
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31. "i thought it was more that running Hillary was a mistake"
In response to Reply # 25
Tue Feb-19-19 04:43 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

because the larger media narrative from the last election was that they were the two most unpopular candidates ever to run. People bought into that they were both equally terrible and dishonest. I don't see that narrative playing out that way if it had been Biden instead of Hillary.

  

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double negative
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35. "Ralph Nader 2000 I think is the thought "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

***********************************************************
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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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93. "no matter what someone thinks of Bernie"
In response to Reply # 35


          



We should all be very grateful he isn't running 3rd party.

He could easily do so if he wanted- look how he can raise coin.

Which is why I scratch my head at "he's not a dem!" people...do they want him to run on his own?




  

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Marauder21
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97. "Yeah, him actually running an independent campaign"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

Would absolutely get Trump reelected.

------

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Marauder21
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30. "How is a vote for anyone in the Dem primary a vote for"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

the Republican incumbent?

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stravinskian
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Tue Feb-19-19 04:50 PM

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32. "Because some nominees would guarantee Trump wins the general. "
In response to Reply # 30


          


Not to speak for the OP, but that's one way.

  

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Vex_id
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54. "Yes - like Hillary Clinton. "
In response to Reply # 32
Wed Feb-20-19 01:50 AM by Vex_id

          



-->

  

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Reeq
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Wed Feb-20-19 03:57 AM

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60. "serious question...why did bernie lose to her?"
In response to Reply # 54


          

was it just the primary being 'rigged' that kept him from victory and not the voters?

like if she was so terrible (either in yours or others eyes)...bernie should have beaten her right?

cuz obama faced the same obstacles that bernie faced. actually worse since a large segment of the cbc didnt support him and clinton was a stronger (and less tarnished) candidate in 2008 coming off a stint as ny senator with a 70%+ approval. but obama somehow pulled off the victory.

  

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legsdiamond
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Wed Feb-20-19 09:01 AM

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61. "She had a huge head start and a lot of folks thought it was her time"
In response to Reply # 60


          

It’s like Dems were on some “and after a Black man we will have a woman!!”

Which would’ve been cool if it was someone else but the problem is Hillary is a strong brand in the southern states but we aren’t winning those states in the general.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Vex_id
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65. "Obama was a once-in-a-generation political talent"
In response to Reply # 60


          

He was very much an outlier in the sense that he was so transformational as a candidate, his charisma and ability to appeal to large swaths of the electorate is like nothing we've seen since JFK. So it's not surprising at all that a candidate couldn't replicate that kind of destined energy.

But as to why Bernie couldn't beat Clinton? lol c'mon - the deck was so stacked against him. He was polling at less than 1% to start - and the Superdelegates nullified any victory he had (he won New Hampshire *big* - but left the state with the same amount of delegates as all of the state's delegates went to Clinton - and this was a common thread in the primary).

The DNC had already made up its mind that Clinton would be the nominee - they just didn't expect Bernie to mount such a viable challenge. But outside of the (now confirmed) titled primary in Clinton's favor - she also had all of the traditional democratic loyalists who loved Bill supporting her. Bernie also did a fairly poor job courting the Southern vote - and that's something he'll have to address if he's to earn the nomination this time around.

All that being said - the dynamics in a primary are very different from the dynamics of a general. Again - all you have to do is look at the verifiable and credible polls to see that Bernie carried significant margins against Trump in a general (whereas Hillary was always neck and neck with Trump in a general) - and that's because once you get outside of a democratic primary, the fight is to appeal beyond your party - and Clinton really struggled with that. Bernie's favorables (being the highest rated Senator/politician in the country in terms of popularity and favorability) would've served him well in a general in 2016 (and will) serve him well in 2020.

-->

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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116. "I have come around to the opinion that anybody but Hillary would have be..."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

Trump. That includes Bernie.

I had a lot of Misgivings about Hillary mainly because I hate political dynasties but I came around partly because 1.) No one else got me that excited, 2.) the misinformation put out about her was driving me crazy, 3.) I thought she would have governed well, it would have been as close to an Obama 3rd term as you could get and 4.) I wanted a woman president.

But Bernie has never impressed me. Even while I dig a lot of what he says I just believe that he would have been a very ineffective president. If super talented, smart centrist Obama couldn't get the more progressive parts of his Agenda done, I don't see how Bernie would do better.

I personally believe A progressive President isn't how you begin to change the country, it's more like the last step. You have to set the stage for it by it bubbling up from the bottom in state houses and Congress.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Feb-21-19 11:07 AM

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117. "i cant wait til we all realize this:"
In response to Reply # 116


          

>I personally believe A progressive President isn't how you
>begin to change the country, it's more like the last step.
>You have to set the stage for it by it bubbling up from the
>bottom in state houses and Congress.

  

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rawsouthpaw
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120. "bernie was of the generation that knew you had to take it to the streets"
In response to Reply # 116
Thu Feb-21-19 12:01 PM by rawsouthpaw

  

          

and that experience is extremely resonate and needed in what is now an ongoing socio-political emergency not unlike the era he was a street level organizer in. in a corporate political structure you need people resisting the profit-based, walled off halls to get reps like the ones we're seeing in congress now. and he deserves credit and a higher platform for this emerging legacy he's added to his life's work.

https://medium.com/@ShaunKing/you-dont-really-know-who-bernie-sanders-was-in-the-1960s-79628016125f

  

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Mr. ManC
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Thu Feb-21-19 10:14 PM

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129. "RE: serious question...why did bernie lose to her?"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

For the BILLIONTH time....let's say everything was fair and equal and no rigging took place in the 2016 primary for argument's sake:

Bernie as an outsider almost took HALF of Hillary's party. If Hillary split her own party's votes then why project her unfavorability to the general election to appeal to people who were DECIDEDLY not Democrats? Bernie would have kept his base PLUS Hillary's crowd PLUS Independents (his base that wasn't even allowed in the primaries) PLUS Republicans that didn't want to vote for Trump PLUS the millions of first year voters who registered to vote for HIM.

To add in a sprinkling of it being fixed, the entire process was set up to steer Hillary to the nomination AND presidency - including Trumps elevation to be opposite her. The better question is if Hillary barely beat Bernie why would she do better in a situation she didn't control against the general electorate? People protested her nomination at her own nomination! Haha the writing was on the wall. Bernie would have won.

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
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Tue Feb-19-19 03:49 PM

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23. "Does anyone think the VP office should do or mean more?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My idea: Have the VP tackle some of the smaller but as important things; Voting rights, fighting gerrymandering, lobbying reform, EPA, and CFPB.

If the VP candidate isn't on the same page, does that muddle the message for the nominee?

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue Feb-19-19 03:52 PM

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24. "not sure but it's less about policy and more about who can win"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Warren might be the right balance between progressives and centrists, but even before this dumb DNA stunt, I've never seen anything about her that says president. And as insignificant as the DNA thing is, her making it worse makes me feel like she's the wrong person to run against Trump

Beto is probably my choice so far (is he even running?), probably 90% of it is that he reminds me so much of Obama tho.

Kamala. I like her enough. I think my thoughts on her are too shaped by other's takes. I need to just listen to her raw.

Biden - if he were younger, i'd be down with Joe

Tulsi - I'm not as down on her as most in here. and i think in the whole reality show circus side of things she'd be a huge problem for Trump. The party seems bent on pushing her out though, and i'm pretty sure they will.

Bern - I dunno. he's old. I think he can clip some 'merica types from Trump, but he's never really faced scrutiny, or the right wing machine, and if the economy doesn't straight up tank before the election good luck selling the country of democratic socialism

Booker - pass

Klubochar(sp) - I don't know enough about her

Gillibrand - I like her. Just not necessarily as president.

Brown - I'm interested

Castro - NO to that almost human looking creature.

  

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Frank Longo
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26. "I'm waiting for the debate."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm out on Klobuchar, but other than that, I can be swayed by most of the other names out there.

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Tue Feb-19-19 04:41 PM

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29. "Tulsi and Klobuchar are my almost 100% nos right now"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

there is definitely so much time left that it doesnt make sense to get tied down to any candidate yet. im just curious where people stand right now. i expect mine to change as i see more of some candidates. my current number one hasnt even announced they are running. just the news of bernie running shot him up to number 2 for me.

im sure i will feel different when we get close to the debates. not sure if the debates will change anything for me.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Feb-19-19 04:35 PM

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27. "None of these are convincing general election candidates."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-19-19 04:44 PM by stravinskian

          

And the general election is all that matters. The general election matters a hundred times more than details of "policy," which people fool themselves into thinking is the serious way to choose a candidate, even though policy from the left will be deadlocked for decades, especially if we continue to shame our right-wing monster Democrats who do what they need to do to win Senate seats in red states.

Of those you listed, Kamala Harris is the most convincing GE candidate to me at the moment, but she'd really have to forget Medicare-for-all super quick, or pretend that all along she was really just talking about a buy-in or a public insurance option. I voted Kamala in the poll. But I fear her roadblocks could pile higher and higher if she thinks she has to continue to win over the "progressives." From what I hear, California moving up its primary will give her an enormous boost, though. If she can put the primary away soon and work on her GE credentials while the "progressives" rant helplessly about how "there isn't a real primary!", then I think she might have a chance.

Biden could be a very good president (again, to the extent that the actions of the president will even matter, apart from bureaucratic and judicial appointments). But I still think he'd fuck up a general election even faster than he fucked up all of his primary races.

Bernie is a vanity candidate, fully dependent on vanity voters. He'd be hopeless in a general election, and if somehow Trump got unpopular and unlucky enough for him to win, Bernie would be a very weak president, and he'd do lasting damage to the causes he thinks he's fighting for. Mainly he'd do this just by fighting for them in the moralistic way he always has. GOP media would trumpet it all as self-parody, and that meme would be confirmed when the legislation goes nowhere.

Beto seems to benefit from people's ignorance. At this point people only know him (if they know him at all) as the guy who almost beat Ted Cruz. But from what little I've seen of him, it seems like that was more about Ted Cruz than about Beto O'Rourke. If he can get together a big, Obama-style social media campaign that gets people to think it's not really about him, then he might stand a chance. But with Obama, it really was about him for a lot of voters. The Hope & Change thing was just one trick in Obama's arsenal. For Beto, I think it's all he has, and I don't think it could possibly be enough, especially against someone like Trump.

Elizabeth Warren would make the best president of this bunch. And she could even be a transformational president if she found herself with a Senate majority (which she won't). But Americans hate progressives. And they hate academics just as much.


Others that come to mind:

I'll have to see more of Amy Klobuchar. The key to a Democrat winning in 2020 will be to win back the rust belt. Minnesota isn't exactly the rust belt, but it's close enough, culturally, that she might be able to convincingly make the right arguments there.

The best candidate for this, and I still think therefore the best candidate we could have, is Sherrod Brown. He's been making the rust-belt Democrat case for years, and he makes it convincingly. He's a conventional enough candidate that I think he could win most of the Hillary states, but he'd also be uniquely capable of decimating Trump's argument in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania; and we already know he can win statewide races in Ohio, by substantial margins, a state that people have started writing off for Democratic presidential candidates. I don't like his naive view of trade policy (which is actually one of the few things a president still gets to decide, in part), but that naive view, unfortunately, is central to the case he needs to make. So I'll look past it.


Overall, I'm not optimistic. I wasn't optimistic in 2016, and I'm not optimistic now. Part of it is that we as a party have allowed ourselves to be pigeonholed, but part of it is that presidents tend to win reelection (just like challengers to the president's party tend to win after two terms). Trump may seem uniquely unpopular, but his approval rating is pretty similar to what it was before the last election. Trump is still able to motivate huge numbers of people to blame his failings (and their failings) on other people. In a competition between hope and malice, the candidate of malice always has the advantage.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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40. "I agree with a lot of this actually"
In response to Reply # 27
Tue Feb-19-19 07:01 PM by Stadiq

          

At this point, I think Kamala seems most able to thread the needle and appeal to progressives and establishments folks. And- in the few speeches I've seen, etc- seems likable enough.

I voted Warren in the poll though, because I went with who I would actually want to be President. As far as elect-ability though, its probably Kamala at this point.


I am surprised at how much Bernie raised in a day- I thought some of the hype had faded. I am very curious what Bernie folks think he will be able to accomplish as President, though (to your point on him). Add in his age, it seems like a way to guarantee (even if you thought he could win) a one-term Presidency. I just don't get it. I wish he would have just thrown his support to Warren or something.

I agree on Beto. I hope he just runs for Senate, honestly.


And yup- Biden would be a great way to just give the Presidency to Trump. Saw a couple talking heads on CNN the other day- one GOP one DEM. They were debating the economy/job growth under Obama and Trump.

The GOP head was able to put forth an argument that stupid Americans every where will believe- that the economy is amazing, and so much better than it was under Obama, and it is because of Trump


Running Biden would just be gifting Trump the perfect deflection "the economy is better under me, why would America let you drive again?"...and it will work.

Add Biden's other issues and his long history of losing Presidential races...I don't get why anyone wants him to run.


I hope Brown runs...I'm doubtful he can win the nom though.

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
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Tue Feb-19-19 05:38 PM

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33. "Andrew Yang"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.yang2020.com

I can live with Beto or Joe Biden.

Andrew Yang gets my vote because his stances reflect where the country should go.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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36. "interesting"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

need to know more about him but his website makes a good case.

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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38. "I don't know if he's ready for a serious run, but his ideas are interest..."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

He's focused on some really important domestic issues, and discussing the issues in a pretty honest way.

I haven't heard a great deal on his foreign policy, but I could see that being a legit weak spot.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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dillinjah
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41. "check out his Rogan podcast from last week"
In response to Reply # 38


          

>He's focused on some really important domestic issues, and
>discussing the issues in a pretty honest way.
>

Agreed.


>I haven't heard a great deal on his foreign policy, but I
>could see that being a legit weak spot.
Yeah, for sure.

He got to that at the very end of the podcast, but what he briefly said wasn't very substantive

  

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dillinjah
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37. "^^this is the guy I back."
In response to Reply # 33


          

  

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Vex_id
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55. "love the attention he's bringing to UBI"
In response to Reply # 33


          


-->

  

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Mynoriti
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109. "dunno about president but I appreciate what he's doing"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

most politicians seem to see automation as something 30 years down the line when we're gonna see huge changes over the next decade, and no one is ready

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5613 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 11:42 PM

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110. "yeah, he's at least discussing and attempting to offer solutions"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11819 posts
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130. "I like a lot about Yang. Would love him in a progressive cabinet."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Phenomenality
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166. "RE: Andrew Yang <———- YEP"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          


...

Vee is I and I am She

...

http://ascensionlifestyle.org
http://twitter.com/phenomenality
http://instagram.com/therealphenomenality

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Mon Mar-11-19 09:36 AM

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265. "im liking this guy more and more"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

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Phenomenality
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339. "^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          


...

Vee is I and I am She

...

http://ascensionlifestyle.org
http://twitter.com/phenomenality
http://instagram.com/therealphenomenality

  

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naame
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34. "Whoever brings a guillotine on stage"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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bignick
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39. "Bernard, motherfuckers. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Tue Feb-19-19 07:53 PM

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43. "I like Sherrod (after a thorough blackface check)"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-19-19 07:56 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

I feel like he can catch fire with one good, prominent speech about the plight of the working class.
He's seems like he's got genuine passion (a must!) and appeals to moderates somehow even though he is pretty damn progressive.

He's the horse I would go with

_______________________________________

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 09:58 PM

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46. "none of it matters if dems dont come up with a media strategy *asap*."
In response to Reply # 0


          

cuz the deck is being stacked against them by the 'liberal media'.

you got cnn hiring a right wing operative with no journalism experience as political editor in charge of coordinating 2020 coverage.
https://twitter.com/axios/status/1097921759024738309

she was calling cnn the 'clinton news network' and pushing the usual generally deranged right wing conspiracy theories not too long ago.
https://www.vox.com/2019/2/19/18231993/cnn-gop-operative-2020-election-coverage

she also pledged loyalty to trump and is prolly under the same trump-friendly nda (cant disparage trump on air) that cnn doesnt care about and doesnt think is worth disclosing to its viewers.
https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1098010638637518848

and in a year that will showcase the most diverse democratic candidate field in history...this is what desks like the cbs news political reporting team will look like.
https://twitter.com/bfmitchell/status/1083834166175846400

salute to aoc for continually (and constructively) calling out the media.
https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1098023702338379776

but if dems dont coordinate a uniform strategy to address these issues along with aoc...they are ignoring the single greatest obstacle to their chance at victory.

  

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Marauder21
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47. "Pete Buttigieg wants to pack courts and eliminate the filibuster"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He's my new hero, lmao at the mayor of South Bend, IN running for president, though. That doesn't even sound like a real job, just the title of a Sports Illustrated story on Ron Pawlus from 1994.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5613 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 11:50 PM

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49. "A+ Ron Powlus callback."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 12:28 AM

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52. "he would have been a really good dnc chair."
In response to Reply # 47


          

he actually had a better plan for modernizing the dem party along with more forward-thinking proposals than both perez and ellison.

he didnt have the factional support behind him that the 2 frontrunners had but he was the best candidate imo.

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
1412 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 05:28 PM

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101. "he think da electoral college should go too"
In response to Reply # 47


          


lol


erry time i hear him he sound smart af

he talk a mean foreign policy game too

gotta young face but he served in afghanistan n was a rhodes scholar n shit

i be keepin my eye on dude

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Tue Feb-19-19 11:20 PM

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48. "anyone but bernie sanders"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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50. "mueller gonna lock him up too for conspiring with manafort & tad devine!"
In response to Reply # 48


          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 09:59 AM

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63. "Why? It’s not like Trump will be free for 2020 right? "
In response to Reply # 48


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 10:04 AM

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64. "LANDSLIDE"
In response to Reply # 63


          

_______________________________________

  

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Vex_id
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56. "Bernie raised more money in a day than any candidate in history"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-20-19 01:37 AM by Vex_id

          

He's not my top candidate this time out (though he's right at the top for me) - but there's no denying the momentum he's carrying. He has really won the long-game since 2016, has galvanized a freshman class of progressive, generational-shifting rising stars in Congress who were inspired by his 2016 campaign, and has the wisdom of learning from mistakes that were made in his past campaign.

He has shifted the discussion with his influence - and now virtually every candidate (except Amy) is parroting his talking points. Not too long ago - these same politicians were referring to him as too radical and out of the mainstream - and now MFA and the Green New Deal is becoming mainstream.

Bernard Sanders is the most influential politician on the left - and he's also the most popular with meteoric favorability ratings (highest of any Senator).

I'm encouraged. Many friends of mine who were staunchly opposed to him in 2016 have actually admitted that they wrong about 2016 & Hillary's electability - and have since warmed up to the idea of a Sanders presidency, but that's likely more a product of the undeniable wind in his sails that simply can't be dismissed anymore.

There are a number of strong candidates - and it's going to be a hell of a primary. Let's just hope the DNC gets out of the way and lets them fight on an even playing field. As the old boxing adage rings true: a good ref (or neutral adjudicating/administrative body) is one that you don't even notice is there.
-->

  

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Marauder21
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Wed Feb-20-19 01:43 PM

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92. "I think the problem for Sanders is he's not running against Clitnon"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

Last time, for all the talk about energized young leftists voting for him, he got a lot of support from Democrats (as in, people who traditionally vote in Dem primaries and routinely vote for the Dem candidate up and down the ballot) who didn't want Hillary Clinton. He was the only option for those voters. This time, they've got more choices.

On the other hand, Dem primary turnout is going to be WAY up from 2016. And at least some of those people who sat out 2016 will go for Sanders (along with the other candidates, of course.) i think if he can get a bigger share of the new voters than anyone else and the voters he loses divide fairly evenly among the other candidates, he could win. But it's not going to be easy for him, he'll need to make a case for himself that isn't just a rehash of 2016 that also sets him apart from the other candidates (again, none of whom will have Hillary's baggage.)

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Vex_id
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220. "true - in 2016 it was a binary choice: Clinton or Sanders"
In response to Reply # 92


          

Now - you have a wide field with many options - but the early numbers show Sanders has retained his considerable core - and is picking off voters who would potentially go for an alternative as well.

What helps him greatly is that all of the candidates are essentially parroting his talking points from 2016 that became so popular with voters (MCA, affordable housing, health care as a right, stay out of endless wars, revolutionizing energy industry to combat climate change etc...) He really coined much of the where the debate is in 2019.

I do think that Biden's entry will add considerable complication to the current makeup of the race.

-->

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Feb-20-19 09:02 AM

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62. "Damn, Bernie still strong as shit. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

This could be a problem.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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tully_blanchard
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66. "We just don't need the "Bernie or bust" mentality again"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          


*************************************

Fuck aliens

-Warriorpoet415

#2dopebrothersandastackofwax

https://www.instagram.com/thirtythree.three/

The Greatest Story (N)ever Told (finished)

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=s

  

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bignick
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77. "80% of his supporters voted for Hillary. "
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

But, by all means, keep posting cute memes and stuff.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Feb-20-19 10:09 AM

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67. "It's *definitely* gonna be a problem."
In response to Reply # 62


          

>This could be a problem.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Marauder21
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68. "What's the problem?"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

That he'll win the nomination and supporters of other Dems won't vote for him? Even if he's not my first choice, I'd still vote for him in the general no question. I don't see why Harris/Warren/Booker supporters would sit out or vote third party.

Or that he can't beat Trump?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Wed Feb-20-19 10:57 AM

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69. "because of the intense line drawing. "
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

I can't understand it fully (the thought process) but a lot...A LOT of folks that were full on Bernie folks became Trump stans and fans once they felt the DNC did Bernie wrong.

There is also the angle of feeling as if something is off but feeling powerless or wanting to make a "Statement" to...the elites?


This shit is a problem.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
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71. "^"
In response to Reply # 69


          

>I can't understand it fully (the thought process) but a
>lot...A LOT of folks that were full on Bernie folks became
>Trump stans and fans once they felt the DNC did Bernie wrong.
>
>
>There is also the angle of feeling as if something is off but
>feeling powerless or wanting to make a "Statement" to...the
>elites?
>
>
>This shit is a problem.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 11:14 AM

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73. "I don’t think any Bernie Stan ran to Trump"
In response to Reply # 69


          

I think most voted for Hillary and some stayed home or voted 3rd party

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Feb-20-19 11:16 AM

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75. "Either way, the end result is the same."
In response to Reply # 73


          

A 3rd party vote and a non-vote are both effectively 45* votes.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
1412 posts
Wed Feb-20-19 05:38 PM

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102. "12% of bernie sanders supporters in 2016 dem primary voted for trump:"
In response to Reply # 73


          



https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds



https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Mon Mar-04-19 12:23 PM

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172. "how many of those 12% were unaffiliated or independents"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

who otherwise would not have participated in the Democratic Primary?

How many Clinton supporters defected and voted for McCain in 2008?

No one owns your vote. Not even Sanders. I didn't vote for Hillary in 2016, unapologetically. I was in a state she was going to win and instead put my vote towards growing the Green Party because the 2 party system is so broken.

People could have voted for Sanders and then chosen to vote for anyone else or not at all for a myriad of reasons. Either way, that is not HIS fault. That was a huge miscalculation on the part of the DNC.

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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DeepAztheRoot
Member since Dec 19th 2003
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252. "I didn't vote for Hillary either"
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

I can't stomach anyone with a foreign policy that resembles Kissinger and Cheney.

I voted Johnson/Weld and I don't regret it at all.

<-Fear Ameer

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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72. "Problem for the newbies like KH, Warren, etc"
In response to Reply # 68


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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89. "^^ this. I am legit surprised"
In response to Reply # 72


          


at how much money he raised like that.

This probably effectively eliminates some candidates, especially Warren.

  

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Marauder21
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90. "He's got name recognition second only to Biden"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

and a HUGE email list, it would be weird if he wasn't raking in huge fundraising numbers. May or may not sustain, but it's definitely a sign that he's serious.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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94. "RE: He's got name recognition second only to Biden"
In response to Reply # 90


          


Word, I just meant how fast he raised that money.


I was one of the ones who thought his run last time was inflated by who he was running against.

I have no idea if it will last, but I'm still surprised at just how big the splash was yesterday.

Based on how many people were apparently *waiting* for him to announce, I wonder if a lot of Warren supporters will jump ship- at least in the coming weeks, etc.




  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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96. "RE: He's got name recognition second only to Biden"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

>I wonder if a lot of Warren supporters will jump
>ship- at least in the coming weeks, etc.


i think a lot of us would gladly have either Bernie or Warren.. both would be an absolute dream.. i think this time, Warren will quick to endorse Bernie and Vice Versa when the nomination gets close.



  

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bignick
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70. "He's the best candidate by a mile. "
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

The only problem is Dems still acting like butthurt sissies cause he challenged Hillary.

  

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legsdiamond
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74. "This is probably true too"
In response to Reply # 70


          

I’m a Bernie fan but I kinda want some young energy and someone who can go blow for blow for Trump.

Bernie might be that dude but he looks so old.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Marauder21
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76. "We have no way to deal with senile presidents"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

We just let Reagan and Trump literally lose their minds in office. Not saying the same thing will happen to Sanders (he certainly seems sharper than they did) but him and Warren being as old as they are isn't great.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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bignick
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78. "LOL. Y'all being real silly today. "
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

As if the entire damn world isn't run by old white people.

  

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ThaTruth
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80. "exactly, that's the problem..."
In response to Reply # 78


          

>As if the entire damn world isn't run by old white people.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Marauder21
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82. "Oh, well if other countries are cool with senile leaders . . . "
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

I never said he was approaching senility, but I also don't think it's weird to be concerned about someone being too old. I might vote for Sanders in my state's primary, I haven't decided (it's not going to happen for another year.) But I'm not going to pretend like I'm thrilled at the idea of a president in their 80's.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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legsdiamond
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84. "That’s the problem. "
In response to Reply # 78


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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88. "lol dude really thought he dropped the big joker."
In response to Reply # 84


          

  

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ThaTruth
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79. "right, just like there's a minimum age there should be a maximum"
In response to Reply # 76


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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shygurl
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81. "I truly don't understand why"
In response to Reply # 62


          

smh. Mistakes will be made again I guess.

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

  

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SeV
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83. "Surprising on this site after his white working class pandoring tour"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

Blaming economic anxiety and not blatant racism for their support for Trump

Dude all but called Black southern folk irrelevant in his last run

I really don't get it

Or maybe im just mistaken about the demographics of OKP


____________

DALLAS LAKERICKS LETS GO!!

  

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legsdiamond
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85. "This site isn’t super Black or poor"
In response to Reply # 83


          

Most Black folk on here make good money and aren’t feeling that pain or struggle.

Also, southern Black folk love some Clinton’s... while he should’ve tried harder he also would’ve burned money. He wasn’t cracking that southern Black vote vs Hilldawg

Just my opinion tho

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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104. "yup. Sanders economic message resonates with a LOT of folks"
In response to Reply # 85


          

especially blue collar folks, of all races

  

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Marauder21
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91. "I wonder if his new campaign manager will work on that"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

This time out his campaign manager is Faiz Shakir, 39 year old former ThinkProgress editor/ACLU national political director. Has some experience working with both Pelosi and Harry Reid. Last time out his campaign was run by his friend from a comic book store and a guy who worked with Paul Manafort to help elect a monster in Ukraine.

Can't just do the same thing he did in 2016 and expect different results.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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OKdamn
Member since Dec 04th 2010
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87. "We need someone young and vibrant to counter the old crazy man"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Bernie can't win.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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98. "Bernie looks like he got dandruff flakes on his blazer collar. "
In response to Reply # 87


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
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103. "bwahahahahahahaha"
In response to Reply # 98


          



yooo


i been sayin


bernie so gatdamn disheveled lookin yo LOL


can yall really see dat nigga givin a speech at da UN or talkin shop wit da saudis

i lmao erry time

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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106. "After Trump he’d look just fine"
In response to Reply # 103
Wed Feb-20-19 10:03 PM by Stadiq

          

Even if you go strictly off appearances, the orange
one looks like a cheap suit/car salesman past his
prime.

He looks like he’s 5 minutes away from pivoting to
talking about a wonderful timeshare investment
opportunity.


Absent minded professor who consistently misses
belt loops would be an upgrade- even just visually.

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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108. "I think he's done this on more than a few occasions"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

>He looks like he’s 5 minutes away from pivoting to
>talking about a wonderful timeshare investment
>opportunity.

like literally talked to world leaders about Trump hotel opportunities.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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KiloMcG
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165. "he'd win handsdown with some updated glasses"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

  

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Teknontheou
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99. "The candidate isn'tgoing to be anyone who hasn't already declared, "
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

besides possibly Biden and (I doubt) Beto. It's going to be one of the people we've already got.

  

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Castro
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100. "Bernie will get eaten alive by Trump. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Warren's snafu is no stranger than any of the shit Trump has done while in office. She could get past it, if only the DNC gave her a chance.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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kayru99
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105. "nah. Sanders will embarrass him in a debate"
In response to Reply # 100


          

Trump is one of the weakest incumbents we'll ever see.
Shit the only way he won is because Hillary is the worst *candidates* we'll ever see

  

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Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
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107. "t.rump Doesn't Debate, He Just Clowns People & Call Them Names"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

He's like the class clown, jokester, and bully all wrapped into one, he never really debates anyone, he's just make jokes about the opposing person and make slide remarks about their lives & status which is usually untrue or exaggerated beyond belief while his followers eat it up as a debate.


https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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119. "But.That.Shit.Works."
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

How can we still not be getting this.

We want the candidate that knows policy and has great one-liners. That's how it works. That's how it always work.

Thinking otherwise gets us Dukakis, Kerry, Mondale.

Fucking Charisma matters.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Mynoriti
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121. "Yup. Hillary Hillary annihalated Trump in the debates"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

on substance and policy.

It didnt matter.

Trump had zingers.



  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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122. "The Debates didn't hurt her. She had zingers. "
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

That Puppet line and his response will be in every documentary about Trump when this is in the history books.

And it was really the first time folks saw personality with her.

And the debates didn't help him. I can't think of anything he said against her that did lasting damage.

Less so than other elections, the debates didn't have a huge impact.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Mynoriti
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123. "true. its more that the debates didn't matter "
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

msm tended to treat them like there was an army of Ken Bones out there waiting for the debates before deciding which way they were leaning.

but an undecided voter in 2016 (which really only meant voting or not voting) was more likely to be steered by a meme than a substantive policy debate

  

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legsdiamond
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113. "In jokes? Maybe... but not on policy"
In response to Reply # 100


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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stravinskian
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114. "In getting votes."
In response to Reply # 113


          

  

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josephmurf2384
Member since Nov 21st 2005
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111. "I'm thiinking gotta be Bernie this time around"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think we are gonna need another populist movement on the other side of the spectrum. Granted i am hoping these short tax returns and such will make Trump's base of lower-class realize he is not for them and this Make America Great Again bullshit really only trickles to his rich base that these folks might switch sides, but who knows. If not Bernie then i'm with Biden or Beto. Pretty much any democratic with the "B" on the front of their name i am with it.

  

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DavidHasselhoff
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124. "Tulsi Gabbard"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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rawsouthpaw
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125. "20 Reasons Bernie Sanders Is The One To Beat Trump (*Backed By Data)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



20 Reasons Bernie Sanders Is The One To Beat Trump In 2020 (*Backed By Data)

Brian Hanley
Sep 25, 2018


1. He’s on track to win the 2020 primaries.
If New Hampshire’s 2020 primary were held tomorrow, polls show Bernie Sanders edging out former VP Joe Biden by 7 points. But Sanders is more than the frontrunner in the first scheduled primary of 2020, he also has a higher probability of defeating Donald Trump than any other potential candidate. According to the most recent polls, Sanders commands the largest lead over Trump, followed by Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren.

2. He’s the most likely to win the Electoral College.
Most notably, Sanders can capture the must-win battleground states that Clinton failed to. In 2016, he upset Clinton in both Michigan and Wisconsin, which in the general election she desperately needed to win, but capitulated. Sanders would have won both states, as he did in the primaries. After all, he defeated Clinton by a total of 152,337 votes in Michigan and Wisconsin. Clinton lost both to Trump by a total of 33,452 votes. Had Sanders been the nominee, Dems would have won both by a margin of ≈100k.

That alone would have deprived Trump of 26 electoral votes, reducing his grand total of 304 down to just 278. Remember, 270 is what’s needed to win it all. Sanders, as the 2020 nominee, could nearly deny Trump the presidency by turning blue two states that he’s already won. He also has the popularity to flip Pennsylvania and Ohio. Even Trump’s personal pollster, Tony Fabrizio, concedes, “I think Sanders beats Trump.” Sanders has “the ability to reach a lot of the less than college-educated, low-income white voters.”

3. He’s the most popular politician in the country.
While Trump broke the record for the worst favorability ratings of any nominee in history, Sanders maintains the highest favorability scores of any elected official. Sanders continues to be the most popular politician in the country by a large margin. He’s the only one on either side who the majority of voters like. Even a Fox News survey found that no other politician was more well liked and most Republicans say that he’s honest.

4. The kids are crazy about him.
While Sanders remains admired across demographic groups, he’s most competitive due to his record-shattering popularity with young people. In the Michigan primary, 81 percent of young Democratic voters cast their ballots for Sanders; in New Hampshire, 83 percent did. Sanders turned out more young people in the primaries than Obama did in 2008, receiving more votes from young people than Clinton and Trump combined.

5. He’s a savage on social media.
To beat Trump, Democrats need to run a candidate who can compete with the President’s enormous social media influence. One of Sanders’ secret weapons is the digital media empire he’s built with the help of his Media Producer, Armand Aviram, formerly a politics producer at NowThis. Sanders uploads thousands of originally produced videos to his social media channels, in which he and other progressives champion major issues like Medicare for All. Some of his more scripted videos feature Sanders talking directly to camera. However, it’s not uncommon for Sanders and Aviram to strike viral gold completely serendipitously. For example, when Jim Carrey recently appeared on HBO’s Real Time with Bill Maher, the actor described the benefits of Canada’s healthcare system. Within hours, Aviram sprang into action, cutting the video into a shareable package that was distributed across the Senator’s platforms. Within 10 days, the video garnered over 12 million views on Facebook alone. At the top of the video was a NowThis-style title that read: “Jim Carrey Explains Universal Healthcare.”

Sanders’ team first developed and refined this approach during the 2016 primaries. When a bird landed on Sanders’ podium in Portland, his digital team converted the once-in-a-lifetime moment into viral multimedia and an online fundraising windfall.


Sanders and Aviram understand that while a live speech like Carrey’s can influence the millions watching in real time, capturing that moment and turning it into a viral video can reach tens of millions more in the days ahead. Aviram uses text cards (or subtitles) in his videos to convey the most important messages, while allowing viewers to follow along with their volume off, which most viewers prefer. It’s the ripple effect that social media enabled, and the production techniques that Sanders’ team perfected, that allow a moment like Carrey’s to live on and even reach a targeted audience segment.

6. He’s the undisputed leader of the progressive movement.
Sanders and Aviram have not only hacked virality, but they have also seen their content move the needle politically. Their videos and live streams many times eclipse the major cable news networks in terms of viewership. It’s all online, like the bulk of Sanders’ fundraising. Coincidence or consequence, his videos have hit billions of views, while at the very same time, support for the Senator’s trademark policies such as Medicare for All have skyrocketed. Not long after Sanders hosted a town hall to discuss universal Medicare, which 1.1 million people live streamed, polls found a seismic shift in public support for the program. 70 percent of Americans now support it, compared to 53 percent who supported it in 2017. Supporting Medicare for All, which Sanders pushed relentlessly into the mainstream, is now practically a prerequisite to running in 2020.

7. His supporters are as passionate as anyone’s.
Enthusiasm matters in elections and Trump’s base is clearly fired up for 2020. You need a candidate who can match that energy and so far, Sanders is the only one who can surpass it. He attracts larger rallies than the next two presidential hopefuls combined.

It’s not all about cult of personality either. Sanders has a long history of talking about, and fighting for, the issues that most Americans care about. Voters have caught on to the influence big money has on our politics. They know that politicians represent the people, or too often, the special interests, that fund their political campaigns. When it comes to tackling big issues like climate change, voters trust Sanders’ integrity.

8. He’s the king of grassroots fundraising.
At a time when 77 percent of Americans want to get money out of politics, Sanders has established the political purity test for progressives by not accepting a single dollar from special interests and depending instead on small individual donations. He raised more individual campaign contributions in his 2016 bid for president than any other candidate in US history. No other Democratic candidate is less reliant on big money and more in command of a grassroots fundraising army. It’s going to take, not only the passion of his diehard base, but also cold hard cash to stop Trump. Sanders can raise more money than any other candidate without taking a dollar from special interests.

9. His message resonates with Trump voters.
Sanders beats Trump on grassroots fundraising, but he also beats him on messaging. Trump’s whole message is that he’s the only one capable of taking on the establishment. That’s a much harder sell when your opponent is Bernie Sanders, the guy who can’t be bought and never once took a dollar from the NRA or fossil fuel industry.

10. He’s a leading voice on environmental justice.
According to the latest polls, 91 percent of Democrats say they worry a great deal or fair amount about global warming. Millennials worry about it more than any other issue. Across political parties and ideologies, 70 percent of Americans want the government to take “aggressive action” on climate change. Sanders’ plan to invest in clean, sustainable energy and create millions of jobs in the process, stands in stark contrast to Trump’s insistence that climate change is a hoax invented by the Chinese.

11. He has more experience and organizational readiness than the rest of the field.
Sanders has unique experience as a Mayor, Congressman, Senator and former Presidential candidate. He’s already been vetted on the national stage. He’s been through most of the presidential election process, knows how to debate and knows how to secure delegates. He couldn’t have a more robust grassroots infrastructure in place and ready to mobilize. He has one of the most valuable email lists in all of politics. He has everything he had at the end of his presidential bid and everything he’s built since.

12. He has crossover appeal that his competitors lack.
As Sanders’ former campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, put it, “If you look at the sentiment of the people, nobody wins the presidency with just the people in your own party.” Sanders has “an incredible strength” in his “unique appeal” to independent voters, and even former Trump voters. It’s his crossover appeal that makes Sanders so dangerous.

“Yeah but he’s not even a Democrat.” Democrats must consider whether this is precisely why he’s so popular. More Americans identify as independents than Democrats or Republicans, so why not run one, especially at a time when the Democratic Party is the least popular it’s been in 25 years and Sanders offers an opportunity to change that?

13. He may not be a Dem, but he’s given Dems life.
Despite being an independent, Sanders remains the prominent voice in the Democratic field. He’s spent the last two years campaigning for progressive down-ballot candidates, introducing legislation to protect American workers and holding Trump accountable. He, more than any other American, popularized issues like universal healthcare, marijuana legalization and tuition free college while simultaneously destigmatizing socialism. The fact that even most Republicans now support Medicare for All is a remarkable development. It means there’s bipartisan support for one of Sanders’ trademark policies.

14. He’s stronger than ever due to the DNC’s reforms.
Looking ahead to the next primary, superdelegates will play a diminished role, which is gamechanger for Sanders. Aside from Clinton herself, superdelegates were the biggest obstacle Sanders faced in the 2016 primary. The Associated Press called the primary contest for Clinton days before California, the nation’s most delegate-rich state, even had a chance to vote, basing its decision on the superdelegates’ support for Clinton.

In 2020, Sanders can rest assured that the superdelegates won’t tip the scales in his opponent’s favor. Since passing sweeping reforms in August, the Democratic Party decided superdelegates will no longer be allowed to vote on the first ballot, meaning they can no longer determine electoral outcomes, except in contested conventions.

15. He may be in his 70’s, but so too are his main competitors.
Since Sanders has few others, his biggest perceived challenge in 2020 will be his age. He’ll be 79 on Inauguration Day 2021, but Biden will be 78 and Trump will be 74. Hillary Clinton will be 73 and Elizabeth Warren, 71. All the frontrunners will be in their 70’s.

16. He may be old and white, but minorities like him.
Another perceived challenge will be that he’s an older white man. But 73 percent of registered black voters and 68 percent of hispanic voters view Sanders favorably. Plus, Sanders has a proven track record of fighting racial and economic inequality. In the 1960s, he marched with Martin Luther King, Jr. and was arrested protesting segregation.

17. He may be a socialist, but so too are growing numbers of Americans.
“Bernie’s a socialist. America isn’t ready for that…” Actually, the numbers tell a rather different story. According to Gallup, more Democrats now approve of socialism than capitalism. And Millennials say they’d rather live in a socialist country than a capitalist one. Sanders has effectively destigmatized the socialist label. While all Democrats may not yet embrace Democratic Socialism, the vast majority do support Sanders’ policies.

18. He’s authentic.
Sanders, who’s known for straight talk and uncombed hair, isn’t slick like traditional politicians. As Paul Farhi of The Washington Post writes, Sanders is “too busy conjuring Big Ideas to care about such trivialities as clothes and hair.” In that way, he’s a unique antidote to Trump: he too defies certain political norms in a way that excites the public.

Last time Sanders ran, he was still the most popular candidate, but he didn’t have the national profile he enjoys today. The fact that he’s remained as well liked as he has, while becoming as well known as he has, is a rare feat indeed considering the amount of mudslinging and divisiveness in modern American politics. Sanders, who’s critical of Republicans and Democrats alike, stands out as one of the few authentic voices in an otherwise broken two party system that he insists requires a political revolution to fix.

19. He represents the change most Americans want.
American workers are sick and tired of a political and economic establishment that for decades failed to deliver. They want a candidate with the guts to take on the rich and powerful, someone who can’t be bought, someone who will fight for them, at all costs.

20. His interest in running isn’t for the power, it’s for the people.
When asked whether or not his former boss would run for the presidency again, Jeff Weaver said, “He’s very focused on the question of beating Trump and putting a Democrat in the White House. And if he runs it’s because he thinks he’s the one to do it.”


hyperlinked article - https://medium.com/@brianhanley_41165/20-reasons-bernie-sanders-is-the-one-to-beat-trump-in-2020-backed-by-data-593b0ad179e4?fbclid=IwAR1XBNOvbmhjg2W6RvHZrbTmPYcCQyw7BMWMBUAWFU2VtL7gq5COXb-5k_s

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
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Thu Feb-21-19 07:38 PM

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126. "FEEL THE BERN!!"
In response to Reply # 125


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

  

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Vex_id
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Mon Mar-04-19 09:36 AM

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167. "yea he's clearly the candidate the people are behind."
In response to Reply # 125


          

Unfortunately - the DNC doesn't (and won't) see it that way and will throw up as many hurdles as they can.

-->

  

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jane eyre
Member since Jan 16th 2007
715 posts
Thu Feb-21-19 10:04 PM

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127. "I hope Dems learned something in 2020."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Feb-21-19 10:10 PM by jane eyre

          

If the GOP doesn't run anyone against Trump, he will be a strong candidate regardless of the scandals and mess that follows him. If he's not in prison, Trump can win. He's a contender. And that's not even taking into account that he's willing to accept the help of foreign actors to win.

An aside: one such foreign actor, Russia, is an enemy of the United States that targeted the Democratic Party, Clinton, the BLACK community (and others), in order to influence the election and put Trump in office. It was an orchestrated attack. Sanders voting record regarding Russia is a bridge too far for me, whatever hairs he wants to split about it. Just my personal opinion.

I want to see Democrats do more to ensure and demonstrate that the 2020 election will be secure and fair--and that there's a plan of action to combat voter suppression.

All of the Dems that are running so far will struggle in a general election, whether the candidate is Trump or another Republican. As of today, I think the general election will be close.

Already, the messaging and framing the Republicans have floated about the Democrat Party and the Democrats running for 2020 have been effective. The messaging that Schultz trotted out should be a troubling sign, too.

I haven't seen any of the Democrat candidates address the positioning of Schultz effectively.

Especially if there's no Republican Trump challenger, Democrats will have an opportunity to give disenchanted Republicans something and someone to vote for. If that's overlooked or not taken seriously, 2016 will repeat in the sense that a lot of people will feel they don't have have anyone to vote for and some of those votes will go to Trump or get split in ways that won't help a Democrat because the bottom line will be: "I don't like the Democrat and I can't vote for them, either."

Progressivism or whatever else far leftist positioning is NOT going to win a general election.

What's remarkable to me is that some moderate Republicans and Republicans who've left their party have told Democrats, on national TV, how to win the election if the COMMON goal is to defeat Trump.

Democrats should listen. Lead this damn country and give us someone to vote for. I don't think anyone running is the right candidate. But. All kinds of things can happen. Who knows what will happen or who will run.

I think Eric Holder would be a great president, but I know that's not realistic. He's potentially as polarizing as Hillary. I'd like to maybe see a Stacy Abrams as VP.

I want Democrats to think about if they want to defeat Trump or if they want _____________ policy. If they want power, then they better focus on defeating Trump. If Democrats have to move center or more right of center to do it, then do it. That's not a sin and it's not selling out.

We live in a country where people love ACA but hate Obamacare and vote for candidates who want to repeal it and stop socialism.

I just want the Dems to come with a realistic strategy for 2020.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Feb-22-19 09:24 AM

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133. "this is the real problem:"
In response to Reply # 127


          

>We live in a country where people love ACA but hate Obamacare
>and vote for candidates who want to repeal it and stop
>socialism.

people in red states overwhelmingly approved a lot of liberal policies via ballot measure last midterms...then also voted for conservative politicians sworn to block/repeal those same policies.

i dont even know what the remedy is for a population that dumbed down.

no amount of superior policy proposal can fix that. dems could lay out a program that would put $1k/mth in peoples pocket and add 10 years to their lifespan...and repubs would find a way to create a scare around it and get half the country or more not vote against it.

every popular govt program today was called socialism and resisted by republicans. then when they eventually pass...people love them and republicans move on to calling something else socialism and people fall for it again for a while.

ronald reagan literally recorded an album just to bash social security and medicare...saying shit like medicare will lead to a socialist dictatorship (sound familiar?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan_Speaks_Out_Against_Socialized_Medicine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bejdhs3jGyw

democrats need to front page this silly shit to show the repetitive fearmongering repubs have engaged in around socialism...and more importantly...how beloved the policies are that they fearmongered against. basically 'if repubs call it socialism...its almost guaranteed to be good for you'.


  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Fri Feb-22-19 10:58 AM

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135. "Good points but where were these moderates"
In response to Reply # 127


          


In 2016?

Trump is exactly who he said he would be.

After 2016, I simply don’t believe in this idea
that moderate republicans will save us.

Especially if their 401K is growing.

So why should we listen to a few of them on TV?


  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Feb-22-19 11:47 AM

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141. "for what its worth crossover republicans handed the dems"
In response to Reply # 135


          

several crucial districts along with an arizona senate seat (and a majority democratic house delegation) in 2018. most likely the governors mansion in wisconsin too.

moderate republican stronghold orange county went full dem in one fell swoop too.

dems are gonna have to do well in those romney-clinton suburbs again if theyre gonna have any chance of success in 2020.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Fri Feb-22-19 12:14 PM

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143. "RE: for what its worth crossover republicans handed the dems"
In response to Reply # 141


          


2016 has me fucked up man.

So is that on Hil?

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Feb-22-19 12:48 PM

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145. "very likely. republicans have had decades worth of hate for clinton."
In response to Reply # 143


          

so a lot of them might have disliked trump...but they couldnt stand the thought of hillary.

you want some prime bubble breaking? (this surprised me too)

moderate/conservative democrats were more likely to be #neverhillary than super liberals. repubs/indies naturally were too.

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1098651547129573376


seeing how the rust belt (except for ohio) and moderate suburbs swung back so sharply in dems favor in 2017/2018...it might have just been the candidate at the top of the ticket.

im starting to question whether the 'progressive' vs establishment rift is even that deep outside of online arguments and thinkpieces. cuz when pelosi was up for speaker...she was just about unanimously supported by progressives (even those that criticized her on the campaign trail). her challenges came from conservadems to her right.

and a higher percentage of bernie voters voted for hillary in 2016 than hillary voters who voted for obama in 2008.
https://twitter.com/RealTimBlack/status/1094997284348223488

  

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Marauder21
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Fri Feb-22-19 03:32 PM

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157. "It's 1,000x more exaggerated on Twitter/online"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          


>im starting to question whether the 'progressive' vs
>establishment rift is even that deep outside of online
>arguments and thinkpieces. cuz when pelosi was up for
>speaker...she was just about unanimously supported by
>progressives (even those that criticized her on the campaign
>trail). her challenges came from conservadems to her right.
>
>and a higher percentage of bernie voters voted for hillary in
>2016 than hillary voters who voted for obama in 2008.
>https://twitter.com/RealTimBlack/status/1094997284348223488

Like obviously there are differences and arguments people will have, but nobody (in my experience at least) gets as bad IRL as they do online.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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The_Orange_Ninja_Turtle
Member since Jan 14th 2005
22411 posts
Fri Feb-22-19 12:35 AM

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131. "Warren"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Feb-22-19 09:08 AM

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132. "fam we have some legit idiots on our side:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1098942436674584576

dude been in congress 2 decades and still came up with this shit?

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Feb-22-19 09:29 AM

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134. "smh"
In response to Reply # 132


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Feb-22-19 11:09 AM

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136. "Meh. that could be a chess move. "
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

We could stand to not have him in the democratic primary. And if he ran as an independent, you would think at some point he would realize he is a spoiler and eventually have to drop out.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Feb-22-19 11:20 AM

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137. "crazy talk. "
In response to Reply # 136


          

  

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Marauder21
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Fri Feb-22-19 11:25 AM

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138. "It's a chess move in the way that knocking over your own king"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

and walking out of the room is a chess move.

If you want 100% of Bernie's supporters to not vote for the Dem nominee, that'd be how you do it.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Fri Feb-22-19 12:33 PM

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144. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 138


          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Feb-22-19 12:48 PM

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146. "we never learn."
In response to Reply # 138


          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Feb-22-19 11:36 AM

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139. "btw howard schultz book came out less than a month ago "
In response to Reply # 0


          

and he is barely in the top 500 at amazon now lol.

only 12% of voters view him favorably...and its pretty even across all party affiliations.
https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1096062416419471362

getting everyone of every political denomination to hate you at the exact same level is a pretty remarkable feat.

and the head of his pr/presidential campaign was last seen storming off *his own* podcast when asked about the schultz rollout (and eventually killing the podcast altogether).
https://www.thedailybeast.com/steve-schmidt-storms-off-own-podcast-when-asked-about-advising-howard-schultz

iono if this is/was a real presidential campaign or just a marketing ploy to sell books...but its been an absolute failure either way.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Fri Feb-22-19 11:46 AM

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140. "i saw clips of his townhall"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

dude sounds stupid. no solutions at all. just "i dont think thats the way to solve it"

hopefully he goes away soon.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Feb-22-19 12:02 PM

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142. "yeah im not even sure what the point of all of this was."
In response to Reply # 140


          

dude started out trying to be the sensible middle of the road candidate.

then transformed overnight into a fox news dem basher with zero proposed solutions. just everything else is terrible and i can fix it.

its kinda crazy that dude has watched 2 years of trumps presidency...and decided the biggest threat to america is aoc raising his taxes and bernie keep americans healthy at an affordable cost.

the fact that cnn gave him his own town hall and he isnt even officially a candidate is part of the reason we ended up here (and thats prolly not even in the top 5 terrible things cnn has done in this early year alone).

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Fri Feb-22-19 01:11 PM

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147. "Surprised Klobuchar isn't getting more burn from the moderate/centrist"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

subscribers

I caught most of her town hall and thought she came off very authentic

Really appreciated the honesty of telling a college crowd that she wasn't for free 4 year college

I even liked her answers IRT M4A and the GND

She sees them as goals and is more focused on what can get passed immediately to move toward those goals

Really liked her presence

I don't think Trump would be able to land any blows on her...and she doesn't seem to be the type to engage in a back and forth

Basically, she would be the adult in the room

Anyway, just wondering why the dem voting block that wants to nominate a centrist/moderate aren't championing her campaign

She fits the bill to a T.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Fri Feb-22-19 01:46 PM

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148. "I’m wondering the same"
In response to Reply # 147


          


She could also potentially help in the Midwest.


  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Feb-22-19 02:23 PM

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149. "'never trump' republicans have all been propping her up a lot lately."
In response to Reply # 147


          

in unison.

https://twitter.com/JoeNBC/status/1093235663875526657
https://twitter.com/GeorgeWill/status/1090989156690526208
https://twitter.com/SethAMandel/status/1098735864115544064
https://twitter.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1095028330691203072
(charlie sykes new rag)
https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1097682749857632256
https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/1097572307269234688

seeing as how nothing they do is in good faith...this should worry anyone looking to support her lol.

republicans dont endorse dems they see as a real threat.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Fri Feb-22-19 02:47 PM

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150. "Never been a fan of attacking the messenger"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

Do you disagree with the sentiment of those statements?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Marauder21
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Fri Feb-22-19 03:04 PM

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153. "Why would a bunch of McCain/Romney voters support a Dem?"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

Remember, these are people who thought Hillary Clinton was too lefty for their tastes, despite being exactly the kind of Democrat these people supposedly would support against someone like Trump (competent, not super ideological, pragmatic reputation.) Instead they chose someone who was supposedly the embodiment of a party that had "lost it's way."

Either they're hyping her because they don't think she can beat Trump, or they're hoping for someone who will govern like a cross between second term Bill Clinton and pre-9/11 George W Bush. No thanks.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Fri Feb-22-19 03:13 PM

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154. "I missed the post where 'these people' suggest they are switching partie..."
In response to Reply # 153
Fri Feb-22-19 03:14 PM by bentagain

  

          

to vote for Klobuchar...?

What I read was some insight from 'these people' into how she appears to pose a serious threat to a Trumpster re-election

You're implying 'these people' got together and decided in fact she was the weakest candidate and they will appear to cower at her potential election victory as a clandestine activity to sink the democrats chance in 2020...FOH

Let me know which one of the links you disagree with

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Marauder21
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Fri Feb-22-19 03:21 PM

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155. "No I'm not"
In response to Reply # 154
Fri Feb-22-19 03:27 PM by Marauder21

  

          

>You're implying 'these people' got together and decided in
>fact she was the weakest candidate and they will appear to
>cower at her potential election victory as a clandestine
>activity to sink the democrats chance in 2020...FOH

Nobody's suggesting anyone got together and secretly planned anything. Just that they have absolutely nothing to lose if Trump gets reelected (and might in fact enjoy such a thing,) so maybe the Democratic electorate would be better served listening to someone else.

And why the attempt at scare quotes around "these people?"

Oh, as far as which one of those I disagree with, some of them are literally just saying "she could be a strong candidate," which isn't really much. It's like asking if you disagree with someone saying "I like fries."

But since you asked, I specifically disagree with the Bulwark's tweet (there aren't enough conservatives actually looking for an alternative to Trump to make any kind of an electoral difference,) Morning Joe (the greatest difference in temperament might be Booker or Gillibrand at this point, if anything she sounds more Trumpy the more stuff comes out about how she treats her staff) and Meghan McCain (you aren't a "bad bitch" because you call up your soon-to-be former employee's next employer to try and get them to rescind the offer or tell your staff it's their fault you're not more well known, you're just a petty asshole.)

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Fri Feb-22-19 03:43 PM

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158. "RE: she could be a strong candidate"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

Right, which is the impression I was left with, hence the reply I posted

"But since you asked, I specifically disagree with the Bulwark's tweet (there aren't enough conservatives actually looking for an alternative to Trump to make any kind of an electoral difference,)"

Maybe not, but the article specifically speaks to those that are anti-Trump
I agree that she appears to have the gravity for those voters

"Morning Joe (the greatest difference in temperament might be Booker or Gillibrand at this point, if anything she sounds more Trumpy the more stuff comes out about how she treats her staff)"

I disagree
Klobuchar has a poise that makes me feel like she won't get down in the mud with Trump
Booker definitely will, and I think that won't play this cycle

"Meghan McCain (you aren't a "bad bitch" because you call up your soon-to-be former employee's next employer to try and get them to rescind the offer or tell your staff it's their fault you're not more well known, you're just a petty asshole.)"

No doubt, some of it fosho come off petty...but...
It feels like this is the gotcha topic on Klobuchar
She's a real bitch to work for...feels sexist in that I'm sure I could find any number of similar stories about male candidates
It's also an interesting contrast to the previous D POTUS candidate and campaign
But, if that's the biggest knock on her...she's a tough boss to work for...I think it works in her favor that there aren't larger blemishes

$.02

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Marauder21
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159. "She's not a tough boss, she's an abusive boss"
In response to Reply # 158
Fri Feb-22-19 03:54 PM by Marauder21

  

          

Does your boss regularly throw things around the office? Or make you wash their dishes or (rumored, but never nailed down, but also widespread enough that the writers of Veep had heard about it) shave their legs? Or blame you for problems in their marriage? Or go out of their way to call your next employer to demean you?

If so, I'm sorry, but you have a shitty boss and should leave.

And of course there are asshole men in politics who also treated their staff badly. But this isn't a gender thing. From today's NYT article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/us/politics/amy-klobuchar-staff.html

"While there was wide consensus in the interviews that women were often held to a different standard as bosses, former aides — female and male — said their concerns about Ms. Klobuchar’s behavior should not be dismissed as gender bias. Many of the aides said they had worked for both men and women, for lawmakers both compassionate and unkind, without encountering anyone else like Ms. Klobuchar."

She's routinely has some of the highest staff turnover of anyone in Congress since day one. It's bad and there's no reason to hand wave it away.

------

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Marauder21
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151. "I've voted for her twice and think she's (mostly) a decent Senator"
In response to Reply # 147
Fri Feb-22-19 02:56 PM by Marauder21

  

          

and I would absolutely not vote for her in the primary.

If the stuff about the way she treats her staff wasn't disqualifying (and it is, abusing and retaliating against people isn't "just being tough" or whatever she's spinning it as,) her complete contempt for anyone even remotely to her left and constant desire to seek approval from Republicans is completely the wrong approach for the next president. She thinks because she does well among conservative-leaning independents in Minnesota that the GOP is a reasonable party that just has some minor differences of opinion, but shares a common understanding of this country.

They do not, no matter how many rich people from Wayzata vote for her when the GOP barely even gives her an opponent.

To be clear, I don't expect, or even hope, that the Dem nominee shares my exact policy goals. But at the very least, you need to understand the nature of the GOP. Warren, Harris, Sanders, even Gillibrand all seem to. Klobuchar doesn't.

And according to the NYT, she ate salad with a comb.

------

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Sat Feb-23-19 07:44 PM

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163. "Appreciate the insight"
In response to Reply # 151


          


At first I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt
on the temper/abuse stories simply because they
initially felt like hit pieces.

Plus, to be honest, I’ve experienced first hand how
surprisingly abrasive midwestern white women can
be lol.

But the stories are piling up- way past sarcasm.

And I obviously didn’t know her approach to the GOP.


Again, thanks for the insight

  

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benny
Member since Jan 15th 2003
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152. "some of those quotes from the NYT story today tho..."
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

I haven't read anything truly disqualifying yet, but it's gonna be awkward if she starts talking about labor rights on the campaign trail

------------------------------
For the record, my teams:
MLB: Mets / Soccer: PSG
NCAA BB: Arizona / NCAA FB: Michigan
NBA: Spurs / NFL: Jets

  

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Marauder21
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156. "The maternity policy is insane"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

And sounds like something cooked up by Paul Ryan after he got particularly excited by a late night Ayn Rand binge.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/us/politics/amy-klobuchar-staff.html

Among other concerns, her office’s paid parental leave policy has been described as unusual on Capitol Hill. Two people familiar with the policy said that those who took paid leave were effectively required, once they returned, to remain with the office for three times as many weeks as they had been gone. The policy, outlined in an employee handbook, called for those who left anyway to pay back money earned during the weeks they were on leave.

After receiving questions about the policy from The Times, Ms. Klobuchar’s office said it would be revised. “We offer 12 weeks of paid maternity and paternity leave for our staff and have one of the strongest paid leave policies in the Senate,” said a spokeswoman, Elana Ross. “We’ve never made staff pay back any of their leave and will be changing that language in the handbook.” She declined to provide a copy of the current policy as written.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

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Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Mon Mar-04-19 09:51 AM

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168. "Hickenlooper is running"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://media1.tenor.com/images/0466286ca36748dce582d06bf77e86ca/tenor.gif

_______________________________________

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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169. "I am not a Bernie Fan but this is soo stupid"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/MrDane1982/status/1102364457970348035


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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Mon Mar-04-19 11:38 AM

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170. "Where did the Bernie is not for black folks narrative come from?"
In response to Reply # 169


          

I assume he's at least on the same level of pro-blackness as any other candidate. But this seems to be a sticking point just for him

_______________________________________

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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171. "I mean, he tries to defend white racist voters. But they are voters. "
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

The depolorables comment was bad news for HRC. And Kamala and Corey B can't come out and say Trump is racist for the same reason.


But people act like that picture is proof that dude hates black people which is crazy.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Mon Mar-04-19 01:00 PM

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176. "RE: Where did the Bernie is not for black folks narrative come from?"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

Not sure if this is where it started, but do you remember John Lewis' comments about 'never seeing, or meeting' Bernie at civil rights marches last cycle?

https://imgur.com/gallery/pHnRuDB

this one went viral

https://thesystemsscientist.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/bernie-sanders-50th-anniversary-selma-march.jpg

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Mon Mar-04-19 12:26 PM

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173. "RE: I am not a Bernie Fan but this is soo stupid"
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

Agreed. So much can be up to interpretation. Facts are coming through this time thankfully.

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
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#13irteen

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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174. "That's 1 of the dumbest tweets I've ever seen (which is saying something..."
In response to Reply # 169


  

          


  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Mar-04-19 12:59 PM

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175. "She could be telling a waiter to hurry up with her food in that photo"
In response to Reply # 174


          

or that she has hot sauce in her bag.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Marbles
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177. "LMAO!"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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178. "Definitely. And the replies too. Save the link"
In response to Reply # 174


          


Cuz when Trump is re-elected, it will be hilarisad to review how it happened.


** Disclaimer for certain folks...my point isn't about Bernie. At all. My point is about the left eating each other over stupid things. Oh, and loony Hillary stans that call her Madam President and think a photo proves something on either side**

  

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Cam
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179. "He's uncomfortable around people in general."
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

Larry David's impression of him is totally accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn4tP7ogWIA

  

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Marauder21
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180. "Is there anyone that would see this and be convinced"
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

that it's evidence he hates black people?

2016 broke some people's brains.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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183. "Am I missing something?"
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

I'm not even sure what that photo is supposed to be proving

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Thu Mar-07-19 02:11 PM

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191. "Come on Adwhizz"
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

The picture is saying Hillary is comfortable around Black folks and Bernie is the awkward old white guy around Black folks.

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
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207. "That's a pretty big reach based off looking at an image that"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

represents a fraction of a second

I've shot weddings/parties and can find a bunch of random out of context shots of people looking crazy/angry/disinterested/etc...

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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Mynoriti
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181. "Sherrod not running"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.axios.com/sherrod-brown-rules-out-2020-presidential-election-bf3760c4-ec1b-44a6-8a80-f95e652db1a7.html

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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182. "I have a feeling that means that Biden will... n/m"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

  

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Marauder21
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185. "Oh, he's definitely running"
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

*sigh*

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Thu Mar-07-19 02:07 PM

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189. "Yes Biden is running"
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

https://theweek.com/speedreads/827666/joe-biden-reportedly-95-percent-committed-running-2020

Don't expect a 2020 announcement from former Vice President Joe Biden for at least a few more weeks.

Biden at this point is "95 percent committed" to running for president, his strategist has been telling Democrats, The New York Times reports. But his announcement is not expected to come until early April.

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Thu Mar-07-19 02:49 PM

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199. "I legit think Trump is winning in 2020 at this point"
In response to Reply # 189


          


Not to get all sky is falling and shit, but I'm leaning back that way. And I know its too early to call regardless, but...


His approvals are starting to tick up.

The media is on their same old shit.

He's going to use this wall shit to play his base like a fiddle again.

Dems seem nearly determined to repeat 2016 with Bernie vs Biden.


Even in this large group of potential candidates, not one of them makes me comfortable in the GE (yet, I admit). Certainly not Biden or Bernie.


I'm also cynical as fuck, I admit.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Mar-07-19 02:58 PM

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202. "Be patient mang. Too early."
In response to Reply # 199
Thu Mar-07-19 03:01 PM by Brew

          

I've been of this belief for the better part of the last 2 years as well, but a LOT can and probably will happen between now and then. I mean yea, if all remains the same between now and then, he probably wins in a landslide. AmeriKKKa is stupid as fuck and racist as fuck.

But I have more faith in the scales tipping in one or more of the corruption investigations than I ever have before. There's just too much there for investigators to allow for this serpent to get through 2020 unscathed. I feel like there's an element of timing at play here and that one or more or even *all* of the investigations will turn up *something* that will prevent him from being re-elected before it's too late.

I'm not *convinced* of that, at all. But I have significant underlying faith that something will catch fire and destroy his polling #s and faith w/the general public.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu Mar-07-19 04:15 PM

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218. "Obviously I hope you're right"
In response to Reply # 202


          


And you follow the investigations closer than I do.

The other thing that hit me the other day, though- if that Mueller report drops/leaks/whatever and there **isn't** anything major on Trump, we are fucked.

So much has been put into that, that if its anything less than what we all hope I think shit falls apart.

I mean, the media tried to sell 2018, after it happened, as disappointing and "not a blue wave" that the Dems were expecting.

Chuck Todd looked fucking giddy.

My point being the extreme double standards, etc. If that report isn't extremely damning, the media will be on some "Dems have to be disappointed" shit.


And yeah- a lot can happen between now and then, of course. I fully realize its too early to call either way. I was just saying based on things right now? I don't feel too good lol

  

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Brew
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223. "Yea my opinion is that there's *SO* much to "report""
In response to Reply # 218
Thu Mar-07-19 04:35 PM by Brew

          

>
>And you follow the investigations closer than I do.
>
>The other thing that hit me the other day, though- if that
>Mueller report drops/leaks/whatever and there **isn't**
>anything major on Trump, we are fucked.

(Just an FYI I put "report" in quotes cause I hate the term "Mueller report" at this point; fucking Trumpkins have been spewing the "the Mueller report is on its way next week" nonsense for going on 1.5 years now lol)

But anyway yea - my thoughts are that there is so much dirt on this president, this admin, this campaign, and so many others, that it's a matter of organization and timing. For so long I was waiting for the "smoking gun" for lack of a better term, but I don't think we're necessarily getting just one haha.

I think that this corruption is so widespread, so sprawling, so long-standing, that it's a matter of gathering and organizing, and establishing timing to ensure that public reaction and pressure is enough to take the whole criminal enterprise down. Due to his (still hard to believe) position as prez it's a lot more difficult to just throw charges at him/them because of the justice dept's LUDICROUS policy of not indicting a sitting president (which is so absurd on its face I can't stand it).

So again, I'm not *banking* on any of the above. I just have that lingering faith that the seemingly endless amount of incriminating evidence will eventually prove too much for even seemingly-teflon 45* to escape.


>So much has been put into that, that if its anything less than
>what we all hope I think shit falls apart.

Totally. But I think *we* are putting "so much" into it, whereas the MSM hasn't really focused so much attention on it. Which is why unless you're deep in the legal rabbit hole of it like I have been the last few months, it may feel like there's nothing there/nothing coming.


>I mean, the media tried to sell 2018, after it happened, as
>disappointing and "not a blue wave" that the Dems were
>expecting.
>
>Chuck Todd looked fucking giddy.
>
>My point being the extreme double standards, etc. If that
>report isn't extremely damning, the media will be on some
>"Dems have to be disappointed" shit.

Yea that's definitely a lingering concern, that we're so numb to 45*'s treachery that nothing will shock us collectively. But that's why again just based on the hoards of evidence already out in the open, I think the probe(s) have in some instances moved from the "investigation" phase to the "organization" and "how do we present all this shit to do the most damage" phase. Haha.


>And yeah- a lot can happen between now and then, of course. I
>fully realize its too early to call either way. I was just
>saying based on things right now? I don't feel too good lol

Yea totally understand and am sort of with you there. I think if he makes it to 2020 and some more shoes haven't dropped (I'd be shocked if that were the case), he def wins.

I just do not think he's getting there without some major shoes dropping.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Thu Mar-07-19 03:30 PM

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212. "Oh no, now it's two people throwing in the towel"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

Dem's can find a way to lose but it's still early. If they pick the wrong candidate again Trump will get back in but right now they should win.

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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216. "nah I admit I go back and forth"
In response to Reply # 212


          


And this isn't really about the Brown announcement because I doubted his ability to win the primary anyway.

I've felt this way for a few weeks. Just seeing the media up to their shit, both "sides" of the left attacking each other, etc.

Plus...this country is full of shitty people. If bonuses are good, 401ks up, etc...? I dunno man. I think if Trump can even half-credibly sell that the economy is good/better, we are fucked.

But again, I admit I go back and forth.

  

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Marauder21
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Thu Mar-07-19 01:28 PM

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184. "Good"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

Keeping his seat blue is more important than him maybe winning like four pledged delegates in Iowa.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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187. "That's a damn good point. n/m"
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu Mar-07-19 02:42 PM

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198. "I'm lost...he would only have to give up his seat"
In response to Reply # 184


          


if he won, no?


Or are you saying had he ran and lost, Ohio would hold it against him in 6 years?

  

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Marauder21
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200. "No, it's only if he won"
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

But there's not a lot of upside to him running. Either he runs and gets lost in the shuffle and doesn't do very well, or he actually wins and it loses a Senate seat. It's only worth it if you think he's some kind of transformational politician or if he's a shoe-in to win, neither of which is true.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu Mar-07-19 04:21 PM

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219. "I get that point"
In response to Reply # 200


          



Its just that, personally, I saw him as the BEST bet to win just based on electoral math.

I really think he would have locked in the midwest- or should I say, I was most comfortable with his chances in the midwest compared to other candidates.


I do think he would have struggled to get attention in the primary, though. Especially with Bernie and Biden running.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Mar-07-19 01:45 PM

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186. "Well shit."
In response to Reply # 181


          


I still think he was our only clear GE winner this cycle. Maybe there are skeletons, maybe he realized we don't need another white male candidate right now (which is true), maybe he didn't want to do that much fundraising, or didn't feel like he could get a foothold in such a big list of candidates.

It's feeling more and more like Trump is gonna get four more years, though.

  

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Vex_id
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188. "lol I mean, sure. Sherrod Brown was our only hope. We're doomed!"
In response to Reply # 186


          


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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Mar-07-19 05:41 PM

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231. "Every current candidate has really serious flaws in the general election..."
In response to Reply # 188


          


We're not doomed, but this will be a much harder race than people are giving it credit for. We all thought George W Bush was doomed for reelection, and he won bigger the second time around.

  

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Vex_id
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237. "not nearly as many flaws as Trump has coming into 2020"
In response to Reply # 231


          

>
>We're not doomed, but this will be a much harder race than
>people are giving it credit for. We all thought George W Bush
>was doomed for reelection, and he won bigger the second time
>around.

but point taken. Trump was severely underestimated in 2016 and we can't afford to presume that he will be easy to beat - because as you note - knocking off an incumbent is never easy.

I just don't see how Sherrod Brown-or-bust is a stance to take in this primary. He carries the populist, restore dignity message that Bernie has, but with more baggage in his personal life and infinitely less appeal and popularity across the country.


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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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241. "I've never been anybody-or-bust."
In response to Reply # 237


          


All I said is that Sherrod seemed like a plausible general election candidate, and nobody else running does. MAYBE Kamala. MAYBE Klobuchar.

>I just don't see how Sherrod Brown-or-bust is a stance to take
>in this primary. He carries the populist, restore dignity
>message that Bernie has, but with more baggage in his personal
>life

It's so cute that you don't think Bernie has baggage.

>and infinitely less appeal and popularity across the
>country.

And it's so cute that you think Bernie would be appealing in a general election.

  

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Vex_id
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244. "RE: I've never been anybody-or-bust."
In response to Reply # 241


          


>And it's so cute that you think Bernie would be appealing in a
>general election.

It's not what I think - it's what all the reputable/credible polls indicate. So sure - I guess they're "cute" - just like your singular hope in Sherrod Brown.


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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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246. "Lol, still as innumerate as ever, I see."
In response to Reply # 244


          


It's not what any polls indicate. It's what bros like yourself TAKE them to indicate, completely devoid of any context other than the forgiving context you need, in order to make them say what you want them to say.

Taken in more proper context, that the public didn't know him, that he'd NEVER faced a significant political attack, that he was known only as an alternative to someone who was being relentlessly attacked, that he was running unchallenged on impossible promises that would be challenged in a general election, and he was still only about even with a "generic Democrat," those polls showed significant weaknesses for the general election.

  

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Vex_id
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248. "yea that's deep."
In response to Reply # 246


          



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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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192. "hes usually at the bottom of every poll in the 1-2% range."
In response to Reply # 186


          

what makes you say he is the only clear winner? im genuinely curious.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu Mar-07-19 02:40 PM

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197. "polls aren't everything- especially this far out"
In response to Reply # 192


          



Personally, I was excited about his potential in the midwest, and ability to thread the progressive-but-not-scary-to-Amerikkkans needled.

Can't deny what he's done in Ohio is impressive.


I was becoming increasingly doubtful of his ability to win the primary though. Too crowded, and Bernie probably eats up some of his support quite honestly.


  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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204. "no doubt about poll numbers."
In response to Reply # 197


          

its just that if youre calling a candidate the one sure shot...i would think itd be one of the frontrunners. people dont tend to bet it all on a darkhorse.

  

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stravinskian
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230. "I certainly didn't mean to imply I thought he was a lock."
In response to Reply # 192


          

He just seemed like the natural candidate this time around. He can make the progressive case in a way that's convincing to those who aren't yet convinced. So he seemed like the natural person to broaden the party while still holding onto the base (something I can't see from any of the rest of the current slate). Also, he can win statewide in Ohio, which Dem candidates need to do to win. And he'd easily take back the blue wall, whereas I don't see any of the other candidates being sure bets for that.

He's a real Democrat, and progressive and populist (in the good sense) *because* he's a real Democrat, and he doesn't come off as phony about it in any way. I think once things came into focus that would have made a good contrast with Trump (and with a lot of the primary candidates, not that I'd name names right now).

Maybe I just hold a lot of reverence for the days of blue collar, Union Democrats. Maybe those days are long past, but if so I think it's a problem for us.

  

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stravinskian
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243. "."
In response to Reply # 192
Thu Mar-07-19 10:57 PM by stravinskian

          

.

  

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Stadiq
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195. "yeah I'm disappointed"
In response to Reply # 186


          


I don't think he is/was our only hope, and I was getting more and more doubtful of his ability to win the primary in such a crowded and loud field.

Still wish he would have ran though- I think he probably would be the best GE candidate- assuming no skeletons, etc.


  

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Reeq
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196. "he has domestic violence and restraining order stuff from the 80s."
In response to Reply # 195


          

hasnt really hampered him in ohio but the national stage is a different beast.

  

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stravinskian
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233. "Hm, wasn't aware of that."
In response to Reply # 196


          


Yeah, that could have been an issue, especially these days, especially running against credible female candidates. And if there's any more dirt along those lines he'd have to know it would come out.

  

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Vex_id
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249. "kinda an important detail "
In response to Reply # 233


          



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stravinskian
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251. "It really is."
In response to Reply # 249


          


See how ready I am to relent and defer to someone who makes a good point? How I don't get hung up on any sort of hero worship or personal persecution complexes?

It's a shame you can't do that. We might get along better if you did.

  

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Vex_id
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255. "You haven't relented an inch on how wrong you were in 2016"
In response to Reply # 251


          

>
>See how ready I am to relent and defer to someone who makes a
>good point?

You've been gallivanting all over the boards as essentially a Clinton surrogate for years - denigrating Sanders at every turn. Forget good points, you don't even relent in the face of facts.

You're still referring to Sanders supporters as "bernie bros" - when his coalition is younger and more diverse than any other candidate.

But to imply that Brown was the singular candidate who could succeed in a General Election is just lazy - even for you.

Maybe get some facts straight and perhaps then we could get along more productively in our exchanges.


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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sat Mar-09-19 10:50 PM

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256. "LOL, you mean all the times I said Trump would probably win?"
In response to Reply # 255


          

I was the first person here to openly predict the Trump win. In December of 2015. It was a New Years predictions thread. You can look it up.

Me saying Clinton was an infinitely better candidate than Sanders was never a guarantee that Clinton would win. It was just a statement of an obvious reality that you never even attempted to refute.


>You've been gallivanting all over the boards as essentially a
>Clinton surrogate for years

I dropped her like a lead weight when Barack Obama started running. Barack Obama was a real candidate, with real ideas, and real potential, that we eventually saw fulfilled. Bernie Sanders is an Instagram candidate with an intentionally mindless following.

>- denigrating Sanders at every
>turn.

Well, yeah. I've denigrated Sanders because I'm a progressive. And his empty vanity candidacy undermined party discipline at a time when we desperately needed it and helped elect Donald Trump. I'll denigrate that fake fuck every chance I get. The best I can say about Dennis Kucinich is that he turned out to be harmless. I can't say that about Bernie Sanders.

>Forget good points, you don't even relent in the face
>of facts.

You've never brought a fact to this discussion or any other. You bring wishful thinking, delusions, and emotion (and occasionally, overt pseudoscience). That's how political movements die.

>You're still referring to Sanders supporters as "bernie bros"
>- when his coalition is younger and more diverse than any
>other candidate.

I referred to you as a bro. And you make the case for me.

>But to imply that Brown was the singular candidate who could
>succeed in a General Election is just lazy - even for you.

Says the man who's been boosting for Tulsi Gabbard. I don't know if you're the fellow anyone should be looking to for advice about who's a promising candidate.

>Maybe get some facts straight and perhaps then we could get
>along more productively in our exchanges.

Or maybe you learn the difference between facts and wishes.

  

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Vex_id
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258. "snarky, but empty. "
In response to Reply # 256


          

#SherrodBrown2024orBust

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Thu Mar-07-19 02:08 PM

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190. "Damn somebody in the thread gave up already"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

just because his pick is not running. Damnnnnnnnnnnnn

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stravinskian
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234. "I'm not throwing in any towels. "
In response to Reply # 190


          


And it had nothing to do with him being "my pick."

In fact, Reeq just filled me in on an issue that might have disqualified him anyway.

My only point is that we still don't have any candidates that general election voters would take seriously. This is gonna be a hard general election, and we're just gonna land on someone randomly after a bruising primary and expect them to beat Trump when his current approval rating is *higher* than when he took office.

I always want to hope I'm just being pessimistic when I think 2004 is repeating itself, but the parallel is holding.

Most people, especially progressives, underestimated Trump the first time around. We shouldn't do it again.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Thu Mar-07-19 06:41 PM

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238. "trump is most likely to win"
In response to Reply # 234


  

          

everyone needs to accept that

unless something we dont know or expect comes out the most likely scenario is trump wins.

its not a guarantee.

we need to work to change that.

i think some of the candidates are much better than john kerry/john edwards as far as generating excitement.

i do think there is 10-15% of previous trump voters that will not vote for him. i would expect them not to vote at all.

on the dem side we all need to rally over whoever wins the nomination.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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260. "Smh"
In response to Reply # 238


  

          

"trump is most likely to win"

"everyone needs to accept that"

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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274. "not accept it in defeat"
In response to Reply # 260


  

          

but not be in denial that its the current situation. that we must make a real effort to change it from happening. cant be complacent and think he will just lose.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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261. "Ok"
In response to Reply # 234


  

          


>
>My only point is that we still don't have any candidates that
>general election voters would take seriously.

That's a good thing, it's not good for a Dem to peak now.

This is gonna be
>a hard general election, and we're just gonna land on someone
>randomly after a bruising primary and expect them to beat
>Trump when his current approval rating is *higher* than when
>he took office.
>

It's not going to be a cake walk for Trump. He has to keep all the states he won and maintain or add to the crack in the blue wall.

>I always want to hope I'm just being pessimistic when I think
>2004 is repeating itself, but the parallel is holding.
>

If you think of 92 HW came off winning the first Iraq war.

>Most people, especially progressives, underestimated Trump the
>first time around. We shouldn't do it again.
>

True can't underestimate him but Dem's shouldn't make him invincible.

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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193. "elizabeth warren is really bad at this."
In response to Reply # 0


          

from the dna test to the inauthentic live streams to just about everything really.

right now her approach just seems to be to out-purity/virtue everyone else. like she made a big deal about wanting to take the mantle on small dollar donations like she would be a pioneer. like that hasnt already been a big rallying point for dem candidates throughout the country since 2016 and the dnc didnt literally build it into their debate criteria.

she made a big deal about releasing her tax returns and called on all dem candidates to do the same...like thats some breakthrough approach that every dem candidate ever has never automatically abided by (outside of bernie).

she really should have fired her entire staff after the dna test.

when she really starts to flouder...i wonder if she will bow out gracefully or get even more desperate.

it sucks cuz she has great policy proposals and a track record to back it up.

but she clearly isnt built for this prez campaign life.

  

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Brew
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194. "Yep."
In response to Reply # 193
Thu Mar-07-19 02:38 PM by Brew

          

>it sucks cuz she has great policy proposals and a track record
>to back it up.
>
>but she clearly isnt built for this prez campaign life.

100% this. Policy-wise I'm not sure there's a potential dem candidate I align w/more. And like you said she puts her money/voting/career where her mouth is.

But she cannot get the fuck out of her own way.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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206. "pretty much"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

she's probably the one i line up with the most, and i've respected her since before she was in politics, but good god she sucks at this.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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222. "agree 100%"
In response to Reply # 206


          


A few months ago I was even wavering on some "maybe she can pull this off"...and the stumbles picked up again.

I at least hope her ideas get more shine.

  

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Marauder21
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201. "It's disheartening"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

She would still make the best president of all the candidates IMO, but I'm convinced she won't be on the ballot by the time my state votes. I imagine she's banking on winning New Hampshire, it's going to be her or Sanders in that state (whenever someone from a New England state runs, they damn near always win the NH primary.) Sanders could survive that loss and keep moving, but Warren's probably cooked if she can't.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Mar-07-19 03:03 PM

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203. "serious question about bernies taxes. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

hopefully i get some serious answers.

but what do yall think is going on there? is it not just a little bit weird to you?

in 2016 i blew it off. i really didnt give it much thought. it just seemed like something he was unprepared to organize and get all of his docs out to the public.

but hes still coming up with excuses and the goalposts keep moving.

in 2016 he said it was because his wife files their taxes and she was pressed for time while doing double duty as a campaign aide. then he said he would only release them if clinton released her wall street speeches.

but he recently said that he didnt release them in 2016 because he wasnt the nominee (i dont remember that being a stated pre-condition). and when asked when he will release them...he just keeps saying soon.

like he cant pay someone to gather up his already-filed tax returns. like he hasnt had the last 2 years to prepare.

i mean...i dont *think* theres anything shady there. but this is slowly veering into raised eyebrow territory imo.

maybe he will put it to rest soon enough. but if it carries on into the primary season...iono fam.

  

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Marauder21
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205. "I don't think it will be a big factor"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

But why not just release them, if only to give your opponents one less thing to bang you on?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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209. "yeah thats what i dont get."
In response to Reply # 205


          

shit shoulda been autopilot. im running again. heres my taxes bitches. kiss my ass. lets move on.

but ive seen him be asked about them already in 2 interviews now and it always gets awkward with the open ended answers. and then some joke about how everyone will be bored with them and theres nothing in there with russia (to break up the palpable tension).

seems like an odd thing to keep putting off (and with constantly evolving excuses) if everything is kosher.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Thu Mar-07-19 03:25 PM

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210. "Soon"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

https://www.accountingtoday.com/articles/bernie-sanders-says-he-will-release-10-years-of-tax-returns-soon


Sanders says he will release 10 years of tax returns ‘soon’
By Arit John Bloomberg News
Published February 26 2019, 11:33am EST
More in Tax returns Bernie Sanders Donald Trump Elizabeth Warren
Senator Bernie Sanders plans to release 10 years worth of tax returns “soon,” he said at a town hall forum on Monday night.

“We have to do just a few more little things,” Sanders, who announced last week that he would again seek the Democratic presidential nomination, said during the forum, aired on CNN. He added that a few “mechanical issues” remain but that the returns would be released “sooner rather than later.”

The move puts him on par with a rival candidate, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, who released 10 years’ worth of her tax returns in August.


Vermont senator Sanders may be seeking to avoid a repeat of criticisms he faced during the 2016 presidential campaign, after he failed to release as many previous tax returns as his opponent for the Democratic nomination, Hillary Clinton.

She made eight years’ worth of full tax returns available in July 2015, in addition to the several years’ worth of returns she and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, have released in the past.

Sanders initially only released the first two pages of his 2014 tax return — which showed that he and his wife Jane Sanders earned $205,271 in adjusted gross income in 2014 and paid $27,653 in taxes — but did not show their deductions. He later released his full return.

Asked at the town hall why he didn’t release more of his tax returns in 2016, Sanders said: “I didn’t end up doing it because we didn’t win the nomination.”

Sanders added that the returns he plans to release wouldn’t contain any surprises. “Our tax returns will bore you to death,” he said.

The documents will, however, show that Sanders’ income has increased. Financial disclosure forms he submitted show that he earned more than $1 million in both 2016 and 2017, from a combination of more than $800,000 a year in book royalties and his salary of $174,000 a year.

Sanders’ pledge comes as congressional Democrats have said they want to see the tax returns of President Donald Trump. During the 2016 campaign he asserted that the returns couldn’t be released while he was under audit, and after the election his administration said he wouldn’t release them because Americans elected him without seeing the returns.

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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214. "'we have to do just a few more little things'. 'mechanical issues'."
In response to Reply # 210


          

hes gonna blame it on 'a glitch' or 'red tape' soon.

  

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Vex_id
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215. "This is one of those moments where you have to ask"
In response to Reply # 203


          

why is there such interest in Bernie's taxes?

This is a not so veiled effort for some people to say, "See! Bernie isn't poor!" - when they know very well what his salary is as a Senator, and that his wife was provost at Burlington College (to which there was some controversy) - so - more than likely - it's an effort to be like, "omg Bernie eats out at restaurants and owns a nice home? must be tough living in America, Commie!"

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Mar-07-19 04:57 PM

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225. "why is there an interest in any candidates taxes?"
In response to Reply # 215


          

we already know bernie is rich. trump supporters remind us of the 3 homes nonstop lol.

we dont need his tax returns to tell us that.

but why shouldnt we expect him to do what every prez candidate has done until trump (and bernie).

after seeing all of the financial interest issues with trump and how dems believe his taxes could spell out the extent that hes compromised...isnt it even more important for dem candidates to walk the walk and provide ccmplete transparency (like warren)?

i mean...trump is the perfect example of why voters should be interested/entitled to full disclosure.

  

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Marauder21
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227. "Because every other candidate is willing to"
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

That's it, that's the reason.

I personally don't give a shit what restaurants he eats at or how many houses he bought, but if everyone else is expected to do it, he should too.

------

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Mr. ManC
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Thu Mar-07-19 05:04 PM

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228. "naw, I think this is a fair criticism. "
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

Not a major one, but fair. Not even so much for the findings within the returns, but because it should be something rather routine, I would imagine. If there was anything nefarious there you would definitely see it. I think one cause of the delay is that if his wife has been doing the taxes, and they are about to be of national scrutiny, then maybe they are going through some third party audit to make sure all i's are dotted and t's crossed.

But even if that were the case, then you'd think that would have been reconciled since 2016.

I don't think there is any "there" there, but c'mon son. Give them one less thing to talk about.

________________________________________________
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#13irteen

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Thu Mar-07-19 04:26 PM

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221. "I thought he did release his tax return in the last campaign?"
In response to Reply # 203
Thu Mar-07-19 04:33 PM by bentagain

  

          

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/bernie-sanders-tax-return-222041

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Reeq
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226. "just the one cherrypicked year."
In response to Reply # 221


          

  

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kayru99
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254. "nobody gives a fuck"
In response to Reply # 203


          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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208. "One thing I find trouble is the animosity towards other candidates. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I guess I know I am late to the game but it is shocking how many Dems HATE bernie for example. Swear up and down he is racist and what not.


All my beefs with any candidate revolve around electability and frankly it's my main concern because I believe all of them will be leaps and bounds better than Trump and I also think there are really marginal differences on what the candidates can deliver. I do realize that's a cynical way to view this but yeah.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Brew
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211. "It's cynical but it's our reality sadly."
In response to Reply # 208


          

Getting Trump out of office is the #1 goal. So electability is the #1 criteria by a million miles.

Then we can start to worry strictly about policy again.


>All my beefs with any candidate revolve around electability
>and frankly it's my main concern because I believe all of them
>will be leaps and bounds better than Trump and I also think
>there are really marginal differences on what the candidates
>can deliver. I do realize that's a cynical way to view this
>but yeah.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Marauder21
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213. "The 2016 and 2008 primaries were really heated, too"
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

------

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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224. "And it did lasting damage and both contributed to the results of 2016. "
In response to Reply # 213


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Vex_id
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217. "Agreed. It's one thing to not prefer a particular candidate"
In response to Reply # 208
Thu Mar-07-19 04:14 PM by Vex_id

          

quite another to levy such angst and unfair smearing against them in desperation.

There's a #NeverBernie contingent within the Dem establishment that is stubborn, irrational, and sophomoric; still refusing to learn the hard lessons from 2016. They still want to win - but only if it's their way and with their candidate.

Thankfully, that group is being dwindled by the larger pool of voters who can see/think more clearly.

-->

  

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Mr. ManC
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Thu Mar-07-19 05:07 PM

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229. "Some Dems are legit turning into the Trump supporters their criticized"
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

Like I saw posts on FB saying Bernie didn't have any Black people in his Brooklyn and Chicago rallies, and folks were really running with the narrative as justification to legit hate the man. Like there is video that shows people there, and even if not, I am a supporter who would have gone but didn't just because I worked like 70 hours last week. But to lie about, and then conflate the premise as that meaning he has no Black supporters is just a really cheap narrative.

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SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu Mar-07-19 06:33 PM

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235. "I've seen so many #neverBernie"
In response to Reply # 229


          


or whatever I just scratch my head, because they really do seem sincere. They really seem like if he somehow wins the nom, they would stay home.

That is insane.



  

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Mr. ManC
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Thu Mar-07-19 06:52 PM

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239. "what kills me about the #neverBernie crowd is "
In response to Reply # 235


  

          

their entire criticism is that Democrats/Independents/Conservatives etc that participated in their primary last cycle FOR Bernie specifically who later either voted elsewhere or not at all - they blame THEM for Trump. Those same people said that not voting for the Democratic nominee - to people who weren't even Democrats - for the sake of Trump not being President.

Now, Trump IS President, and just because there is a prospect that Sanders would be successful enough to win the nomination AND bring a sweeping majority of general election voters AND pass an urgent and desperately needed platform - they want to sit it out.

I understand being against Clinton's platform and politics and deciding to not vote Democratic. But for people who voted for Hillary to make their moral line in the sand Bernie Sanders of all people when they were just "Blue No Matter Who" last time for the Presumptive Nominee.....I just don't get it. Other that his election is evidence that 2016 should have gone the other way.

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Mar-07-19 09:03 PM

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242. "I've never met a never-Bernie voter, but..."
In response to Reply # 235
Thu Mar-07-19 09:07 PM by stravinskian

          

I'd imagine these would be moderate or centrist democrats, or independents, who distrust the idea of a "revolution" or the country being led by a holdover '60's radical.

I've never heard of an overtly progressive never-Bernie voter. I'd vote for him. I'd be afraid he'd set the progressive cause back simply by having a failed presidency, but I'd vote for him.

But the fact that we can't imagine that there are moderate/centrist/conservative Democrats and independents out there who don't want to be part of that movement, should give us pause about our understanding of where that movement sits among the public.

Let Trump rant about Medicare for All in a general-election debate and watch the never-Bernie independents shoot through the roof.

  

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double 0
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232. "Stacey Abrams"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I have this weird feeling she can come through and crush the buildings..

think Schumer does as well

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-------------------------------------------
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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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Thu Mar-07-19 06:34 PM

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236. "Amy Schumer?"
In response to Reply # 232


  

          


>think Schumer does as well

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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double 0
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240. "RE: Amy Schumer?"
In response to Reply # 236


          

lol her cuzo Chuck

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Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
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www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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Marauder21
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Fri Mar-08-19 09:28 AM

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245. "He's been a pretty ineffective leader in the Senate"
In response to Reply # 240


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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double 0
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253. "RE: He's been a pretty ineffective leader in the Senate"
In response to Reply # 245


          

What does that have to do with stacey abrams

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-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
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DeepAztheRoot
Member since Dec 19th 2003
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Fri Mar-08-19 12:58 PM

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247. "79-year old Sanders and 77-year old Biden (at time of election) "
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Mar-08-19 12:59 PM by DeepAztheRoot

  

          

Unelectable

They don't have a chance in hell, Trump and Reagan at age 70 and 69 are the oldest elected to their first term as President

Furthermore, why would the DNC try and counter Trump with someone even older? Plus with how corrupt the DNC was with Bernie in the '16 primary, HRC was even so brazen as to add DWS to her group, you think they will accept him now? Laughable. Also, they have a point that Bernie is a registered Independent and only Democrat when it is to his benefit.

The DEMS need a younger voice with a vision, Bernie and Biden are DOA. So is Liz Warren but that has nothing to do with her age.

<-Fear Ameer

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Fri Mar-08-19 01:34 PM

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250. "agree with your general point"
In response to Reply # 247
Fri Mar-08-19 01:35 PM by Stadiq

          


>They don't have a chance in hell, Trump and Reagan at age 70
>and 69 are the oldest elected to their first term as
>President

I tend to agree that their age alone makes them DOA. I do have the urge to say "Trump proves you can throw all reason out the window"...but I don't think either Biden or Bernie win the GE for a variety of reasons- age being a big one.

>

>
>Furthermore, why would the DNC try and counter Trump with
>someone even older? Plus with how corrupt the DNC was with
>Bernie in the '16 primary, HRC was even so brazen as to add
>DWS to her group, you think they will accept him now?


That's kind of my feeling on the Bernie or bust voters, not so much the DNC. I think if it ends up being Bernie, it seems like a lot of Dems are going to be irrationally pissed enough to stay home. A lot of them hate this dude.

Which, again, hurts him in the general.

(Not to mention, lets say he actually becomes President. The GOP would obviously not work with him, and my guess is some Dems wouldn't either. I don't think he'd be an effective Pres)

>Laughable. Also, they have a point that Bernie is a
>registered Independent and only Democrat when it is to his
>benefit.

Meh, this is wrong. Bernie could easily run as a 3rd party candidate and make noise- and push out the Dem candidate.

I wish he wasn't running, but I'd much rather have him run as a Dem than an independent

Folks who say "he isn't even a Dem!!" haven't really thought it through.

>
>The DEMS need a younger voice with a vision, Bernie and Biden
>are DOA.

Agreed. I wish Biden and Bernie had stayed out so the party could move forward, so old fights wouldn't come back up, for someone younger/fresh face, etc.

If this comes down to Bernie or Biden by convention time, we are fucked in my opinion.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sun Mar-10-19 02:44 AM

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257. "damn i forgot all about this lol."
In response to Reply # 247


          

>Plus with how corrupt the DNC was with
>Bernie in the '16 primary, HRC was even so brazen as to add
>DWS to her group, you think they will accept him now?
>Laughable.

straight dickhead move.

say what you want about republicans...but they quarantine their lepers and force them to fade into bolivian (c) mike tyson.

people like dws and donna brazile should have been put out to pasture following 2016.

brazile got caught giving debate questions to clinton then had the nerve to come out with a book saying the primary was rigged by the dnc lol.

  

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Vex_id
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259. "according to stravinskian (and many other dems)"
In response to Reply # 257
Sun Mar-10-19 10:58 AM by Vex_id

          

there was absolutely zippy corruption or bias in the 2016 primary.

That's the type of energy the Democratic party is dealing with - a lack of internal inquiry and self-improvement.

People always say: "let's not re-litigate 2016" - however - you have to first actually litigate 2016 before you can "re-litigate" it.

There still remains a considerable gap with where the Democratic electorate is at and where the party leadership/infrastructure is at.

-->

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sun Mar-10-19 11:43 AM

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262. "Lol thanks for trying to be so clear about my position."
In response to Reply # 259


          

>there was absolutely zippy corruption or bias in the 2016
>primary.

I never said that. Reeq already noted one particular SMH moment. I think it's pretty overblown, but yeah, Donna Brazile was chummy with the Clinton campaign, and she turned over some vague indications about what kinds of questions would come up at a town hall; totally unnecessary indications, because anyone who knows anything about politics knew those subjects would obviously come up anyway. Mainly she seems to have done this because she was politically savvy enough to know the Clinton campaign was gonna win anyway. Still, it was a dumb fucking move by Donna, and if the campaign paid any attention to it, it was a dumb fucking move by them.

Note, though, this was BEFORE Donna was became affiliated with the DNC. Donna Brazile was a private citizen, completely unaffiliated with the DNC, when she did that particular dumb thing.

I STILL haven't heard a credible claim of any action taken by the DNC that could conceivably put in doubt the results of any primary or caucus. I've been asking for YEARS, and thanks to Russia, you have plenty of material to comb through for evidence. And there's still no sign that the DNC played favorites in any primary or caucus.

Sure there was incompetence at the DNC. You seem to think the DNC has a lot of official power over primaries. You're wrong about this. All the DNC really is is a clearinghouse for sending campaign money where it's needed, mostly for congressional and local races. The DNC utterly failed at that, and yeah, I blame Debbie Wasserman Shultz in large measure for this (and, I hate to admit it, Barack Obama for sticking by her for too long). The Clinton campaign had to bail out the DNC to staunch the financial calamity that was about to hit the congressional races. Good for them; it showed how much they cared about fighting all the way up and down the ballot. Shame the Sanders campaign, with all their vaunted fundraising powers and talk of "revolution," was not as interested in helping Democrats up and down the ballot.

>That's the type of energy the Democratic party is dealing with
>- a lack of internal inquiry and self-improvement.

Oh I definitely think the DNC needs to do its job better. I also hope the Sanders campaign is more prepared to actually fight the WHOLE fight this time around.

>People always say: "let's not re-litigate 2016" - however -

I've certainly never said that. I think we should take every opportunity we can to shame Bernie Sanders into being a better Democrat.

>you have to first actually litigate 2016 before you can
>"re-litigate" it.
>
>There still remains a considerable gap with where the
>Democratic electorate is at and where the party
>leadership/infrastructure is at.

You don't know where the electorate is. You know where your personal bubble is.

  

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Vex_id
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263. "Actually - you did say that, but glad you're relenting/retracting"
In response to Reply # 262


          

>>there was absolutely zippy corruption or bias in the 2016
>>primary.
>
>I never said that.

Just last month you said there was no evidence of corruption or bias in the 2016 primary. Glad you're distancing yourself form that absurd (and incorrect) statement now, though.

But it's funny how you trivialize what Donna did - and then today is likely the first time you've ever said a critical word about DWS's leadership - which is really rich. Alas, you've been a staunch Clinton surrogate - so of course you would downplay any inference of foul-play and/or corruption in the 2016 primary adjudication.

It can take a while to come to grips with political malpractice - particularly when that malpractice cost the election and resulted in a Trump presidency. I'd want to trivialize it too if I had my fingerprints all over that.

>> I think we should take every
>opportunity we can to shame Bernie Sanders into being a better
>Democrat.

Pretty sad when an Independent has done more for the Democratic party since 2016 than any other elected official. There is plenty of shame to go around, and very little of it is attributed to Bernie Sanders.

>You don't know where the electorate is. You know where your
>personal bubble is.

Actually I know exactly where the electorate is. Sanders won a resounding victory of in my state - besting Clinton by a 61%-37% margin. Despite that thumping, they both left the state with the same amount of delegates (thanks to the SuperDelegate influence).

But let you tell it, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that delegate calculus (ostensibly because Bernie's not a "real Democrat").

Anyone who thought Clinton was a strong general election in 2016 has no credibility in projecting in 2020. Thanks for playing, though.


-->

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sun Mar-10-19 04:41 PM

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264. "More delusions and poor grasp of numbers. "
In response to Reply # 263


          

>>>there was absolutely zippy corruption or bias in the 2016
>>>primary.
>>
>>I never said that.
>
>Just last month you said there was no evidence of corruption
>or bias in the 2016 primary. Glad you're distancing yourself
>form that absurd (and incorrect) statement now, though.

Maybe I said there was none that mattered. And that's exactly what I'm saying now. If you still want to claim that an action from the DNC made it harder for your guy to win, then PLEASE make a case.

>But it's funny how you trivialize what Donna did -

So you really think there was useful information in those leaked "questions?" LOL.

>and then
>today is likely the first time you've ever said a critical
>word about DWS's leadership - which is really rich.

Rich or not, she was a shitty leader for an organization that didn't really matter. Once again, the fact that she was a shitty leader meant the CLINTON campaign had to cut a check to the DNC to bail them out from a financial hole, something the Sanders campaign refused to do despite the fact that that money was needed for scores of state and local elections. That's not really grass-roots leadership.

>Alas,
>you've been a staunch Clinton surrogate - so of course you
>would downplay any inference of foul-play and/or corruption in
>the 2016 primary adjudication.

Tell me what the DNC was in charge of adjudicating! Primaries and caucuses are run by the states! This is a matter of state law! The DNC did not adjudicate a single vote.

>It can take a while to come to grips with political
>malpractice - particularly when that malpractice cost the
>election and resulted in a Trump presidency. I'd want to
>trivialize it too if I had my fingerprints all over that.

Clearly. You're trivializing the fact that you fell hook line and sinker for the bid of a candidate who never expected to win in the first place, helped along by foreign intervention that was literally designed to divide the progressive movement, in a campaign that prostituted its supposedly progressive credentials to reinvigorate long-discredited right-wing tropes, all with the goal of weakening the candidate that *everybody* (Barack Obama, Bernie Sanders, Vladimir Putin, Tulsi Gabbard, ...) knew was going to be the only progressive candidate in the final race. Even after he started winning a few states, by Super Tuesday Sanders knew that there was zero chance he would win a majority of even the pledged delegates. Suddenly he liked superdelegates a lot more when they gave him an excuse to keep attacking the nominee all the way up to the primary.

>>> I think we should take every
>>opportunity we can to shame Bernie Sanders into being a
>better
>>Democrat.
>
>Pretty sad when an Independent has done more for the
>Democratic party since 2016 than any other elected official.

It's really disturbing that you believe that. You're a fucking automaton.

>There is plenty of shame to go around, and very little of it
>is attributed to Bernie Sanders.

Maybe little of it is attributed to Bernie Sanders, but a hell of a lot more is attributable to him.

>>You don't know where the electorate is. You know where your
>>personal bubble is.
>
>Actually I know exactly where the electorate is. Sanders won
>a resounding victory of in my state - besting Clinton by a
>61%-37% margin. Despite that thumping, they both left the
>state with the same amount of delegates (thanks to the
>SuperDelegate influence).

Lol, so how many delegates does your state have? You really think "your state" is a representation of the electorate? And even the national general-election electorate?

So I just looked it up, and apparently that was the biggest win your guy got in any state primary contest. It's also a state that neighbors his home state. So not a very representative "thumping."

And if you actually want to talk about the flaws in the system, how about the fact that so many of Sanders's wins came from caucus contests that are profoundly undemocratic and biased towards those who can afford to spend a whole day at the caucus site?


>But let you tell it, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with
>that delegate calculus (ostensibly because Bernie's not a
>"real Democrat").

Bernie certainly didn't seem to have much of a problem with it when HE was going around trying to win over superdelegates.

As for him not being a "real Democrat," my criticism has always been that he isn't a real progressive.


>Anyone who thought Clinton was a strong general election in
>2016 has no credibility in projecting in 2020. Thanks for
>playing, though.

And anyone who thought Sanders was a stronger general election candidate, then or now, should be laughed out of any serious political conversation as the mindless cultist that he is.

  

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Vex_id
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Mon Mar-11-19 03:35 PM

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272. "epic, obtuse and Big Mad rant, my G. I just have one question:"
In response to Reply # 264


          

Who has done the most for the Democratic party since 2016?

-->

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Mon Mar-11-19 04:32 PM

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275. "Probably Nancy."
In response to Reply # 272


          


Can't really think of any other major figure who's done much of actual substance for the progressive cause lately. It's a dark time.

Anyway, yeah, we can leave it at that if you like. Thanks for showing the intellectual emptiness of the cause of "progressive" posers.

  

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Vex_id
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276. "lol still holding on desperately to the Pelosi/Schumer wing, I see."
In response to Reply # 275


          

>
>Can't really think of any other major figure who's done much
>of actual substance for the progressive cause lately. It's a
>dark time.

Which is precisely why new leadership & succession is imperative. And who is drawing up the grassroots energy to inspire young people to get involved in the political process?

It ain't Nancy Pelosi. But your blinders have been on full display for years - and you can't teach an old donkey new tricks.

-->

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Mar-12-19 04:13 PM

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280. "Lol, still think people who think like you politically matter, I see."
In response to Reply # 276


          

>>
>>Can't really think of any other major figure who's done much
>>of actual substance for the progressive cause lately. It's a
>>dark time.
>
>Which is precisely why new leadership & succession is
>imperative. And who is drawing up the grassroots energy to
>inspire young people to get involved in the political
>process?

Barack Obama? Not really anybody else. Not Bernie Sanders. He has a lot of followers, certainly enough to breed disunity in the party. But he does not have enough followers to build a winning coalition around, and he never has. No number of birds on podiums will help him when Trump, health-care lobbies, and insurance lobbies start rolling out ads about the cost of Medicare for All.

As for "young people," they've never needed anyone to tell them to care about politics. They either do or they don't. When I first started voting I felt A LOT of grassroots energy for David McReynolds, Dennis Kucinich, Al Sharpton, Ralph Nader. That grassroots energy did not help Democrats, Progressives, Socialists, anyone. It was political fool's gold. And it's what Bernie's trying to sell today.

>It ain't Nancy Pelosi.

Naw, she's been too busy getting shit done. Even before she was speaker, she oversaw the entire strategy that stopped George W Bush from privatizing Social Security and Medicare, despite the fact that the GOP held BOTH houses of congress. When she first became speaker, she found the way to pass Obamacare after the GOP thought they'd stopped it by winning a 41st seat in the senate. Most recently, she kept the party in line through the nation's longest government shutdown and didn't fund a dime for Trump's wall. Bernie Sanders was irrelevant to all of these massive legislative victories, and so were his fervent supporters.

>But your blinders have been on full
>display for years - and you can't teach an old donkey new
>tricks.

When the trick is to elect more Republicans, it's not a trick I want to learn. And neither should you.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Mar-12-19 05:49 PM

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287. "dems basically won the midterms on obamacare."
In response to Reply # 280


          

it was the #1 issue in elections across the country.

there was nobody more instrumental in passing/protecting obamacare than pelosi.

that alone gives her mvp.

and we didnt even get to her fundraising haul for the entire house caucus.

people gotta stop re-framing or outright ignoring large segments of reality just to advance their viewpoint.

they been treating this woman like a scrub for a minute and cant even come up with anyone near as accomplished/worthy.

  

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Reeq
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282. "the pelosi/schumer wing flipped 40 house seats and 2 senate seats."
In response to Reply # 276


          

i will never understand this rush to dismiss the part of the party that overwhelmingly wins competitive elections (and not just elections in already blue contests).

  

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Vex_id
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284. "you're crediting Pelosi and Schumer for the mid-term blue wave?"
In response to Reply # 282


          

That's generous.


-->

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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286. "out of those 42 flipped seats...only 1 ran on medicare for all."
In response to Reply # 284


          

the other 41 out of 42 were moderates.

what wing of the party is that?

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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295. "meh not running on M4A does not equal moderate"
In response to Reply # 286


          


I get your point, but you moved the line there for sure.


I think you can give credit/praise to Nancy without labeling everyone who isn't for M4A a moderate.


Make your point on how effective Nancy is/has been- you guys helped school me on that.


Maybe you are trying to use Vex's (assumed) definition of moderate, but still...use quotes or some shit lol It just adds to the infighting IMO.

  

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Marauder21
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297. "Define "ran on""
In response to Reply # 286


  

          

The Dem who won my district is fairly moderate, but also said he would be open to M4A. But it also wasn't a huge point of his campaign. Are you only counting the people who made M4A the #1 issue of their campaign?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Mar-13-19 07:23 PM

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302. "If he said he'd be "open to it,""
In response to Reply # 297


          


then that was a way to say no without saying no.

It's not a one-of-many-options kind of idea.

I'm willing to bet he didn't sell bumper stickers about policies he'd be "open to." There probably wasn't a page on his website that declared "I will be open to Medicare for All!" in 50-point text.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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285. "btw what is bernies signature congressional accomplishment?"
In response to Reply # 276


          

not tryna be funny.

but for someone who has been in congress for 30 years...what landmark legislation bears his name? or what historical achievement was he instrumental in getting over the finish line?

bernie has been great for bernie no doubt. but i think you might be overvaluing his contribution to the party as a whole.

even in 2017/2018...in places like va, tx, az...where dems pulled off big wins...they were in races where bernie tended to stay out of.

he wasnt even that big of a factor in high profile competitive primaries relative to his status/reputation. his endorsed candidates got beat in places like ks (welder) and va (perriello).

in fact the relatively unheralded progressive group pccc had double the primary endorsement success rate (67%) than justice dems and our revolution (32%).

primary candidates who were on the dccc red to blue list or were endorsed by the dscc had a 95% win rate lol.

and he or his org didnt raise/spend near the amount of money on dem candidates/causes as steyer, bloomberg, dscc, dccc, pelosi, priorities usa, emilys list, ppact, etc did.

and they def werent putting in legal/gotv/etc groudwork like indivisible, swing left, naral, aclu, etc.

im not sure how you can view any of that as him doing more for the party than anyone else. clue me in.

  

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Vex_id
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296. "He has a long history of accomplishments"
In response to Reply # 285


          

But the reason he's done more for the Democratic party than anyone else (*since 2016) is because of the new energy his campaign has fused into the party. You can't just look at national elections. His (and Nina Turner's) Our Revolution org has had success all across the country in organizing and electing state & municipal officials to serve in local governments, school boards, and committees. Sure, his influence also inspired the new bold freshman class in the U.S. House - but that's not the extent of it by any measure.

He has fundamentally changed the conversation of the Democratic primary - whereby all of the other candidates are essentially parroting his campaign platform from 2016 on health care, education, economic/social/environmental justice. Hell, even entrepreneurs (like Hickenlooper) can't even bring themselves to say they're capitalists (which is ridiculous IMO as we need Dems with innovative economic ideas).

There's denying that his influence has been *immense* since 2016. We aren't talking about Pelosi's ideas or Schumer's - and certainly not Tim Kaine's. We're all talking about Bernie's ideas as we head to 2020.

In terms of accomplishments - perhaps you need to revisit why he was dubbed "The Amendment King" --Here's just a few of the things he's done since he's been in Congress (specifically when he passed more amendments than anyone from 1994-2006) - and these amendments were not trivial, instead, they were called “exclusively progressive.”

For example:

Saving Money, for Colleges and Taxpayers (April 1998): In an amendment to H.R. 6, the Higher Education Amendments of 1998, Sanders made a change to the law that allowed the Fund for the Improvement of Postsecondary Education to make competitive grants available to colleges and universities that cooperated to reduce costs through joint purchases of goods and services.

Holding IRS Accountable, Protecting Pensions (July 2002): Sanders' amendment to the Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act of 2003 stopped the IRS from being able to use funds that “violate current pension age discrimination laws.” Although he faced stiff GOP opposition, his amendment still succeeded along a 308 to 121 vote.

Expanding Free Health Care (November 2001): You wouldn't think Republicans would agree to an expansion of funds for community health centers, which provide some free services. But Sanders was able to win a $100 million increase in funding with an amendment.

Getting Tough On Child Labor (July 2001): A Sanders amendment to the general appropriations bill prohibited the importation of goods made with child labor.

Increasing Funding for Heating for the Poor (September 2004): Sanders won a $22 million increase for the low-income home energy assistance program and related weatherization assistance program.

Fighting Corporate Welfare and Protecting Against Nuclear Disasters (June 2005): A Sanders amendment brought together a bipartisan coalition that outnumbered a bipartisan coalition on the other side to successfully prohibit the Export-Import Bank from providing loans for nuclear projects in China.

He continued this effective work when he was elected to the Senate in 2006, with amendments like the following:

Greening the U.S. Government (June 2007): A Sanders amendment made a change to the law so at least 30 percent of the hot water demand in newer federal buildings is provided through solar water heaters.

Protecting Our Troops (October 2007): Sanders used an amendment to win $10 million for operation and maintenance of the Army National Guard, which had been stretched thin and overextended by the war in Iraq.

Restricting the Bailout to Protect U.S. Workers (Feburary 2009): A Sanders amendment required the banking bailout to utilize stricter H-1B hiring standards to ensure bailout funds weren't used to displace American workers.

Exposing Corruption in the Military-Industrial Complex (November 2012): A Sanders amendment required “public availability of the database of senior Department officials seeking employment with defense contractors” – an important step toward transparency that revealed the corruption of the revolving door in action.

Support for Treating Autism in Military Health Care: Sanders worked with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) to pass an amendment by a vote of 66-29 ensuring that the military's TRICARE system would be able to treat autism.

etc.. etc.. - So he's actually been quite effective with real, tangible accomplishments since he's bee in the House & Senate.



-->

  

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Vex_id
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300. "Oh - and then just today:"
In response to Reply # 296


          

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/12/676152310/senate-poised-to-vote-to-end-u-s-military-support-for-war-in-yemen

This is a *huge* win - not just for Bernie, but for our credibility and the region at-large.

-->

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Mon Mar-11-19 09:43 PM

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277. "NAANNNNCCCYYYY?!?!??! (c) Soulja Boy"
In response to Reply # 275


  

          

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Marauder21
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266. "Make your "visiting Wisconsin" jokes now"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

2020 convention is going to be in Milwaukee

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Mar-11-19 10:47 AM

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267. "pete buttigieg had a brilliant town hall last night. "
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-11-19 10:52 AM by Reeq

          

i suggest everyone peep it.

too bad dude doesnt have the name cache and support coalitions of other candidates.

he really is the best at shifting the overton window leftward by making sensible arguments/analogies.



  

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Marauder21
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268. "I've been impressed by just about everything he's been saying"
In response to Reply # 267


  

          

Really want this dude to be in the debates. Hopefully he can use this run to set himself up for something bigger in the near future.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Mar-11-19 11:01 AM

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269. "i started paying attention to him during the race for dnc chair."
In response to Reply # 268


          

strictly on substance...he was the best candidate in that race.

and he might be the best candidate in this race too.

he reminds me of the way bill clinton used to take policy and break it down to plain language to make it completely reasonable/accessible.

if a flashier/trendier candidate completely parroted his stances and explanations...theyd prolly be damn near flawless.

  

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Vex_id
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271. "His takedown of Pence was brilliant."
In response to Reply # 267


          

But yea - overall, I really thought he was strong and brought something fresh & new to the table.

-->

  

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Eric B Is Prez
Member since Nov 08th 2005
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Wed Mar-13-19 02:16 PM

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299. "1000%"
In response to Reply # 267


  

          

He may be the most polished candidate I've seen in years. He's smart as a whip, shockingly poised for 37, and well-prepared. I bet he's impressive in a debate.

He also seems to take a progressive position on everything but still manages to make it sound sensible. That's the key to everything.

I just hope casual voters can get past his name, which can be pronounced "booty judge" if you rush it


_______________________________________________________________________________________

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Mar-18-19 09:43 AM

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418. "lol isnt his husband saying thats how you pronounce it?"
In response to Reply # 299


  

          

or was that a joke?

we have to get used to weird names, or have already. we had barrack hussein obama elected. a weird name will not hold you back.

  

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Eric B Is Prez
Member since Nov 08th 2005
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445. "That's true"
In response to Reply # 418


  

          

Obama was new to people, but at least it was was easy to pronounce. This guy's last name literally freezes people in their tracks. From a branding/marketing standpoint, if a product has a name people can't pronounce I'd argue that's a fundamental problem. It sounds petty but I think it's real.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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414. "im really impressed by this guy"
In response to Reply # 267


  

          

he might not be your pick if you want full progressive agenda now but in the end he might be someone that would get us there quicker. he does seem to have a sensible plan to move us in that direction.

hes in my yes category right now. i saw his interview on pod save america. really good, need to see which other candidates have done interviews on there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsrjkQt60vI

town hall was great too.

i think if more people are exposed to him he could catch on.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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270. "I am old enough to remember when we regarded Biden as a Gaffe Prone"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Buffon.

I like him and would quickly fall in line if he became the nominee, but he gets a lot of mileage off of Trump being so awful and spending so much time in the Obama Halo.

To be fair, he also gets a lot of mileage off of his ability to talk to poor white folks but yeah....


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
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Mon Mar-11-19 03:51 PM

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273. "im tryna figure out why da fact dat iowa likes biden so much fuckin matt..."
In response to Reply # 270


          



like for real tho


ya they first in da primaries


so da fuck what?


them mfuckas voted for cheeto in 2016


why do we care who they like?


its like how many other states lol


out of 50 eleven candidates unless ERRY state pollin for a biden nom media need to fall back wit dat shit

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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279. "Nigga that was 5 years ago. "
In response to Reply # 270


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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278. "joe biden is officially suck a dick status."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1105470709935988737

the most readily available example of 'mean pettiness' in politics right now is people (dems) criticizing him for being nice to republicans?

really?

the 1st time he was criticized...it wasnt because he was nice to a republican. it was because his words/actions helped boost a republican in an election against a democrat. and the 2nd time...he said rabid racist and homophobe mike pence was a 'decent person'. and he got promptly called out on it by gay people who are seeing their rights rolled back by pence and regressive politicians like him.

hes doing nothing but reinforcing the right wing 'intolerant left' trope.

man get this dusty ass bitch outta here.

  

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Marauder21
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281. "Just completely misreading the room"
In response to Reply # 278


  

          

Hope he enjoys all the polls that show him with 25-30% now, because those aren't lasting when he declares.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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283. "it seems like thats all hes been doing."
In response to Reply # 281


          

i dont think ive seen him say or do anything that i was really excited about yet.

ive been basing my appraisal of his 'electability' off polls and how much hes respected in all corners of the country. but a lot of that is based off white working class nostalgia and surrogacy for barack obama.

if hes gonna spend his whole campaign like a condescending old man chastising the next generation for not being more hospitable to right wing extremists then he can kindly fuck the fuck off.

the press is already starting to dig into his record on race (criminal justice, integration/busing, etc). shitting on your own base isnt exactly the best way to prevent your support from eroding under fire.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Tue Mar-12-19 08:10 PM

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288. "I mean...yeah. Writings been on the wall"
In response to Reply # 283


          


You just preferred the polls.

I’ve asked and asked who gets excited for Biden
other than older white Dems...never got an answer.

I think I like him less than I liked Hillary in ‘16.

Biden wins the nom and we’re toast. No coalition,
no hype, deflated base, young people stay home.

He keeps this shit up though he won’t win the
nom of course. Again.

Fuck joe. Let him stump for the nominee in white
areas. Tops.


  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Mar-12-19 08:52 PM

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290. "You really do hate the people you hate."
In response to Reply # 288


          

I guess that's a characteristic that you and I share.

>You just preferred the polls.

There's nothing wrong with polls, as long as they're conducted well and understood in context. The polls were a lot more predictive in 2016 than people gave them credit for. If poll aggregators said Hillary had a 3/4 chance of winning in 2016 and Trump won, that's no stranger than throwing two coins and getting heads both times. The polls were telling us the race was close. People just refused to believe them. FiveThirtyEight was bouncing around between 65% and 80%, and that was before the Comey announcement.

It's EARLY to look at some polls. The horserace polls right now are just measuring name recognition, but Reeq knows that. I assume the polls that interest him are his general popularity ratings, which are still quite good. (As I've said, he'll have plenty of chance to change that.)

>I’ve asked and asked who gets excited for Biden
>other than older white Dems...never got an answer.

Them, and people with Obama nostalgia. Together, those groups constitute the core of the progressive coalition.

>I think I like him less than I liked Hillary in ‘16.

That's only a problem if you're a representative voter. You're not; none of us here is.

>Biden wins the nom and we’re toast. No coalition,
>no hype, deflated base, young people stay home.

Like I've said a number of times, I don't like Biden, but to play Biden's advocate: he's the MOST likely person to build a big coalition, even if only thanks to Obama nostalgia. As for hype, the election will be a referendum on Trump. The hype is to beat Trump. Saying the base will be deflated requires a very selective definition of who constitutes the base. As far as young people staying home, they came out just fine for Hillary, and that was when most people were unwilling to admit that Trump could win.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Tue Mar-12-19 09:22 PM

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291. "Lol that’s fair"
In response to Reply # 290


          

>I guess that's a characteristic that you and I share.
>
>>You just preferred the polls.
>
>There's nothing wrong with polls, as long as they're conducted
>well and understood in context. The polls were a lot more
>predictive in 2016 than people gave them credit for. If poll
>aggregators said Hillary had a 3/4 chance of winning in 2016
>and Trump won, that's no stranger than throwing two coins and
>getting heads both times. The polls were telling us the race
>was close. People just refused to believe them.
>FiveThirtyEight was bouncing around between 65% and 80%, and
>that was before the Comey announcement.
>
>It's EARLY to look at some polls. The horserace polls right
>now are just measuring name recognition, but Reeq knows that.
>I assume the polls that interest him are his general
>popularity ratings, which are still quite good. (As I've said,
>he'll have plenty of chance to change that.)

Yeah I dont disagree with any of this. My main points were
it’s too early to let polls guide “us” and that Biden was
coasting off name recognition- as you said.


>
>>I’ve asked and asked who gets excited for Biden
>>other than older white Dems...never got an answer.
>
>Them, and people with Obama nostalgia. Together, those groups
>constitute the core of the progressive coalition.

This is where I disagree. I don’t think Obama nostalgia
is a winning strategy- especially as long as Trump
can claim a good economy.

I think “Let’s go back 4 years” is a losing message.

I also think the primaries will erode that Obama
connection. I think as Biden gets attacked, etc-
people will start to see the difference.

Not to mention, I swore I read that Biden does not
expect an early Obama endorsement. I didn’t save
the link or anything, but my main point is pretty much
any Dem nominee would be able to cash in on
Obama love AND have a message of their own.
>
>>I think I like him less than I liked Hillary in ‘16.
>
>That's only a problem if you're a representative voter. You're
>not; none of us here is.

Right, but that is also my point on the “Let’s go
back 4 years” message. I don’t think that’s enough
to win.

There are people in this country who are okay with this
Trump shit. Their 401ks are up. They hear about low
unemployment, etc. Even if they are apathetic to Trumps
shit telling them “Let’s go back” probably won’t be enough.


>
>>Biden wins the nom and we’re toast. No coalition,
>>no hype, deflated base, young people stay home.
>
>Like I've said a number of times, I don't like Biden, but to
>play Biden's advocate: he's the MOST likely person to build a
>big coalition, even if only thanks to Obama nostalgia.

I think uncle Joe telling the kids to be nice to the
bigots and buck up would get old real quick. That,
along with his other issues? I just don’t see his appeal
beyond older white Dems. Especially if the Obama
connection fades.

I mean Reeq has been one of the biggest Biden fans here,
and he’s sick of his shit.

And again, I think joe gets beat up in GE.

As for
>hype, the election will be a referendum on Trump. The hype is
>to beat Trump. Saying the base will be deflated requires a
>very selective definition of who constitutes the base. As far
>as young people staying home, they came out just fine for
>Hillary, and that was when most people were unwilling to admit
>that Trump could win.
>

Hillary also had the hype of making history.

Maybe “beat Trump” will be enough, I just wouldn’t
want to gamble on it.

To sum up- my fear is that Biden will end up just popular
enough with Dems to win the nom and lose the GE. Biden
gives me 16 flashbacks, as I’ve said.

Trump is effective when he has a foe, too. In a GE against
Biden, he can go on the offensive about the Obama admin
and claim a better economy, etc.

A fresh face so to speak has a better chance of putting Trump
on the defensive in my opinion.



  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Mar-13-19 08:16 PM

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303. "RE: Lol that’s fair"
In response to Reply # 291


          

>>I guess that's a characteristic that you and I share.
>>
>>>You just preferred the polls.
>>
>>There's nothing wrong with polls, as long as they're
>conducted
>>well and understood in context. The polls were a lot more
>>predictive in 2016 than people gave them credit for. If poll
>>aggregators said Hillary had a 3/4 chance of winning in 2016
>>and Trump won, that's no stranger than throwing two coins
>and
>>getting heads both times. The polls were telling us the race
>>was close. People just refused to believe them.
>>FiveThirtyEight was bouncing around between 65% and 80%, and
>>that was before the Comey announcement.
>>
>>It's EARLY to look at some polls. The horserace polls right
>>now are just measuring name recognition, but Reeq knows
>that.
>>I assume the polls that interest him are his general
>>popularity ratings, which are still quite good. (As I've
>said,
>>he'll have plenty of chance to change that.)
>
>Yeah I dont disagree with any of this. My main points were
>it’s too early to let polls guide “us” and that Biden
>was
>coasting off name recognition- as you said.

That's not *entirely* true, though. Name recognition is something we ALSO measure, and therefore it's something we can adjust for, and even after adjusting for it, he still has a healthy lead.

The problem is not that the polls aren't measuring anything yet. The problem is simply that there is plenty of time for the polls to change. But unless we get into uninformed prognostication, the polls, adjusted as necessary to correct for systematic errors, are just as likely to go up as to go down.


>>>I’ve asked and asked who gets excited for Biden
>>>other than older white Dems...never got an answer.
>>
>>Them, and people with Obama nostalgia. Together, those
>groups
>>constitute the core of the progressive coalition.
>
>This is where I disagree. I don’t think Obama nostalgia
>is a winning strategy- especially as long as Trump
>can claim a good economy.

My fear is that it could end up being our ONLY strategy. If the economy continues to look good, then there is literally nothing else to make a case on other than Trump's character, and the best way to make the case on Trump's character is to compare him with Obama.


>I think “Let’s go back 4 years” is a losing message.

It's often a weak message. But it works for the people who haven't liked the last four years. It worked pretty damn well in 2016.


>I also think the primaries will erode that Obama
>connection. I think as Biden gets attacked, etc-
>people will start to see the difference.

The easy answer to that is that there shouldn't be attacks in primaries, ESPECIALLY on the frontrunner. I know I'm on the losing end of that viewpoint nowadays, though.


>Not to mention, I swore I read that Biden does not
>expect an early Obama endorsement. I didn’t save
>the link or anything, but my main point is pretty much
>any Dem nominee would be able to cash in on
>Obama love AND have a message of their own.

He shouldn't expect any endorsement during the primary. Obama has made it abundantly clear that he will never endorse during a primary. The fact that he didn't endorse Hillary during the '16 primary, despite everyone who worked with him reporting that he strongly supported her in the primary, shows that it's just not something he wants to do. It would erode his own brand and it could backfire. Then again, if he thinks it'll help clear the field, then maybe he'll change his mind. I'm not expecting it.


>>>I think I like him less than I liked Hillary in ‘16.
>>
>>That's only a problem if you're a representative voter.
>You're
>>not; none of us here is.
>
>Right, but that is also my point on the “Let’s go
>back 4 years” message. I don’t think that’s enough
>to win.
>
>There are people in this country who are okay with this
>Trump shit. Their 401ks are up. They hear about low
>unemployment, etc. Even if they are apathetic to Trumps
>shit telling them “Let’s go back” probably won’t be
>enough.

But what else is there?

The argument doesn't have to be "Let's go back to the time when we weren't sure if we were out of the Great Recession yet."

The argument would be: "Look at those fuckers STILL trying to end Obamacare! Don't let them do it! Look at those fuckers still trying to cut Social Security! Look at those fuckers still trying to overrule state law and put people in jail for years on weed possession! Look at those fuckers still claiming climate change is a hoax!" Maybe that's more anti-Trump than pro-Obama, but Obama is the contrast that people will inevitably make, and it's a contrast that we can win. It won us a historic number of congressional seats.


>>>Biden wins the nom and we’re toast. No coalition,
>>>no hype, deflated base, young people stay home.
>>
>>Like I've said a number of times, I don't like Biden, but to
>>play Biden's advocate: he's the MOST likely person to build
>a
>>big coalition, even if only thanks to Obama nostalgia.
>
>I think uncle Joe telling the kids to be nice to the
>bigots and buck up would get old real quick.

Well, and hopefully he'd learn that. From the beginning I saw it as a marketing trick. He's playing the unexcited centrist because a lot of crucial voters LIKE that. If he goes more partisan in the future, when it matters, it will carry even more weight if he's set himself up in people's minds as someone who isn't generally partisan. It's not as elaborate as a chess gambit.

>That,
>along with his other issues? I just don’t see his appeal
>beyond older white Dems. Especially if the Obama
>connection fades.
>
>I mean Reeq has been one of the biggest Biden fans here,
>and he’s sick of his shit.

Maybe I haven't been paying as much attention to Reeq's take on Biden as you have, but I don't remember him ever pushing for him. All I think I've seen him say is that he has strengths as a candidate that nobody else has, and that's undeniably true.

>And again, I think joe gets beat up in GE.

If he does, it's because he's said something stupid. If he plays the "let's go back 4 years" role and somehow still survives the primary, then if he was just 20% more careful as a politician I'd say he'd be our best current bet.

I honestly don't know what you think he'd be beaten up for in a general election. There's a minefield of old policy positions and statements that he'll have to deal with, but those are problems for the primary, not the general.

>As for
>>hype, the election will be a referendum on Trump. The hype
>is
>>to beat Trump. Saying the base will be deflated requires a
>>very selective definition of who constitutes the base. As
>far
>>as young people staying home, they came out just fine for
>>Hillary, and that was when most people were unwilling to
>admit
>>that Trump could win.
>>
>
>Hillary also had the hype of making history.
>
>Maybe “beat Trump” will be enough, I just wouldn’t
>want to gamble on it.
>
>To sum up- my fear is that Biden will end up just popular
>enough with Dems to win the nom and lose the GE. Biden
>gives me 16 flashbacks, as I’ve said.

He's certainly the obvious parallel to Clinton. But in my view that's what makes him the STRONGEST GE candidate. You win general elections as a Democrat by looking less progressive than you are.

>Trump is effective when he has a foe, too. In a GE against
>Biden, he can go on the offensive about the Obama admin
>and claim a better economy, etc.

If the economy is still strong, he'll use it against ANY Democrat. The difference with Biden is that he'd at least be able to make the case that the administration that HE was in found ways to break the freefall that Republicans had put us in, and to follow that with seven years of growth that Trump hasn't accelerated in any way. It's a tricky case to make, because it requires some nuanced discussion, but it's a case that any Democrat would need to make. And while someone like Elizabeth Warren would be far more effective at convincing *ME*, I recognize that someone with a ditzy regular-guy persona like Biden could make the case far better for the overwhelming majority of American voters.

Again, we shouldn't be deceived by what WE want. WE are not that important.

>A fresh face so to speak has a better chance of putting Trump
>on the defensive in my opinion.

Only if the fresh face presents a compelling narrative, and I don't think any of them do, at least not so far.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 11:22 AM

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309. "It sounds like"
In response to Reply # 303


          


I've turned you into a Biden fan just by hating him. lol just playin


All your points are noted, I just don't feel comfortable with him in a General.

I'm not basing that on what I/We want, either. For instance, I've soured on Beto...but I feel a lot more comfortable with him in the GE than Uncle Joe (despite his...odd announcement).


Also, I really don't want to rehash '16 with you, but again- Biden gives me '16 flashbacks which ended terribly.

To switch the subject a little, I am curious about your take on something.


How important is a VP pick in your opinion? It seems to me a VP pick could help bring out the "base" so to speak. Basically, I am debating in my head if it does end up being Biden, if a smart VP pick could make me feel more comfortable with his chances.


For instance, do you think a different VP pick could have helped Hil? Or if Kasich says yes to Trump, does Trump lose some support with the religious nuts? etc


  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Mar-14-19 04:06 PM

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321. "he knows im not a biden fan but he keeps saying it anyway lol."
In response to Reply # 303


          

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 04:35 PM

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324. "lol stop"
In response to Reply # 321
Thu Mar-14-19 04:40 PM by Stadiq

          

You were for him and you know it. I'm not saying he was your top choice, but don't act like you weren't at least somewhat of a fan.

You got excited about the polls. Just admit it. Its...weird you can't admit to being wrong or even off or even to just changing your mind.

You've gone back and forth (which we all do at times) on him but refuse to even admit to that lol. Glad to see you at least admitting to Biden's issues now though, even if...for some really odd reason...you are going to pretend now you were never for him.

Damn dog, "yeah now I see what you mean/meant, I kind of changed my mind" ain't that hard.

Not really looking to debate you again though so- I'll just choose my own Reeq adventure: Ignore? Deflect? Call someone a Bernie Bro?

Hmmm....I'll just guess which one you would employ here, and save us both time. (You ignored a few posts up above btw)



  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 06:03 PM

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328. "you really just gonna groundhogs day this shit to death huh?"
In response to Reply # 324
Thu Mar-14-19 06:06 PM by Reeq

          

no matter how many times i set you straight on it.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13305789&mesg_id=13305789&listing_type=search#13312886
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13314377&mesg_id=13314377&listing_type=search#13314574

my response to one of the other times you called me a biden fan...
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13305789&mesg_id=13305789&listing_type=search#13313417

why i think neither bernie or biden will win...
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13306367&mesg_id=13306367&listing_type=search#13306652

as far as polls...
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13281427&mesg_id=13281427&listing_type=search#13291860
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13281427&mesg_id=13281427&listing_type=search#13302261

literally every month for the last 3 you have been mentioning that im off biden now lol.
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13309602&mesg_id=13309602&listing_type=search#13309710
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13314377&mesg_id=13314377&listing_type=search#13314561


its crazy how stravinskian has better comprehension of my conversations with you than you do.

if you do this shit ONE MO TIME ima bodyslam you into an arcade game fam lol.

hopefully this is the last time we have this *exact* same convo again lol.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Fri Mar-15-19 11:27 AM

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354. "lol you would rather spend all that time"
In response to Reply # 328
Fri Mar-15-19 11:28 AM by Stadiq

          

Cherry picking links and shit than saying "yeah I liked Biden's chances but I've changed my mind"??? haha whew

Damn dog. Its okay, man. All of us are wrong sometimes. All of us change our mind sometimes.

No one is going to think less of you man. Hell, you would probably regain some respect with some if you could just admit shit sometimes.

And LULZ at you saying anything about comprehension when you stooped to calling me a Bernie Bro. You either didn't comprehend a ton of my posts or you really do just default to ignore/deflect/bernie bro

Still haven't responded to Vex up above either lol. Man, you can't take being wrong huh? Its legit weird at this point.

Either way, glad you are finally admitting to Biden's issues in a round-about-away at least. Do you.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Fri Mar-15-19 11:50 AM

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360. "Maybe at this point you should take a couple minutes"
In response to Reply # 354


          

to find at least a SINGLE post to cherry-pick, where Reeq said Biden has it locked up, OR where he said he personally supports Biden.

Like I said, maybe I just missed something. But I'd be surprised if he ever said either thing. It would just be silly to say that Biden has ever had it locked up, so I'd be awfully surprised if he said that.

And as for whether he personally supports Biden, I've never seen Reeq make an explicit claim of personal support for ANY candidate.

Generally I've seen Reeq make political-science type arguments about the objective dynamics of the race. The only statements of personal preferences I've seen from him are statements of explicit *disapproval*, for Hillary, Bernie, and, yes, Joe Biden.

You seem to fixate on your understanding of what you THINK someone said, and get offended if they don't admit they said it. And then you get holier-than-thou about them not admitting to saying something that you think they said but they didn't actually say. You've done it to me, too.

>And LULZ at you saying anything about comprehension when you
>stooped to calling me a Bernie Bro. You either didn't
>comprehend a ton of my posts or you really do just default to
>ignore/deflect/bernie bro

Personally, when *I* call you a Bernie Bro it's only because I know how much it winds you up. I can think of three or four classic Bernie Bros here and I wouldn't count you among them. You do, however, share some of the same selective self-certainty about what you think the public wants.

>Still haven't responded to Vex up above either lol.

I don't know if you know Vex, but the man is a lunatic conspiracy theorist. He's not JUST a Bernie Bro, it goes a lot deeper than that. I don't know what post you're talking about, but it should really be thought of as abuse when someone drags on an argument with him.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Mar-15-19 01:13 PM

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380. "stadiq is like our version of the smarterchild aim chat bot lol."
In response to Reply # 360


          

we been having the same exact conversation for months.

dude comes to the same conclusion that im 'off biden' now.

and then he does the same thing next month.

and apparently me pointing that out is cherrypicking lol.

i love the homie with all my heart but that boy is 'touched' lol.


btw you got me exactly right. im basically just making a fluid assessment of candidates with a rolling set of data. ironically ive been constantly accused of being a fan of bernie and kamala. but not beto. despite me saying beto was my #1 pick and dedicating an entire post to him running for president. shit is weird.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Mar-15-19 01:46 PM

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384. "*biden (not bernie)"
In response to Reply # 380


          

  

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Vex_id
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Fri Mar-15-19 01:31 PM

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382. "speaking of people who are *touched*"
In response to Reply # 360


          


>>Still haven't responded to Vex up above either lol.
>
>I don't know if you know Vex, but the man is a lunatic
>conspiracy theorist. He's not JUST a Bernie Bro, it goes a lot
>deeper than that.

I don't know anyone in this particular post personally - and you for sure do not know who I am. I guess when you lose arguments on the merits (and consistently make woeful predictions) you have to resort to sophomoric insults like "conspiracy theorist!" and "bernie bro!" -- hope that makes you sleep better at night.

-->

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Fri Mar-15-19 03:56 PM

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391. "I don't know you, thankfully."
In response to Reply # 382
Fri Mar-15-19 04:04 PM by stravinskian

          

But I remember multiple threads about space aliens, posts about auras and a reality just beyond the percieved.

I remember that you once had a link in your sig that sent people to a website that sold special balms that could heal people through quantum entanglement.

I remember numerous comments about the mystical properties of certain mind-altering substances.

I actually regret the fact that I overtly insulted you there. The word "lunatic" was off-base, and "crank" would be more in line with my memory than "conspiracy theorist" (though I'm pretty sure you were in that line on the 9/11 stuff).

At any rate, I do honestly apologize for stating it the way I did. All I should have said is that you have a history of being disinterested in objective reality, and that therefore I don't personally take your view of objective reality very seriously. I'm sure you would say something very similar of me.

But your view of objective reality is *seriously* flawed if you think I've been losing arguments with you "on the merits," or if you think I've been making predictions, woeful or otherwise. I step in once in a while to defuse your poor logic before it leads anyone else into disinformation. But you have a hard time admitting it when your logic is flawed.

  

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Vex_id
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Fri Mar-15-19 06:23 PM

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401. "I'm not really interested in speculating on your character"
In response to Reply # 391


          

certainly not in the way that you're doing via personal attacks. I have no idea what you're about.

We can disagree (vehemently as we often do) without devolving to that kind of gutter exchange.

Not sure what you're referring to in that odd rant - other than I did start a small side business distributing superfoods & Ayurvedic supplements many years ago (and marketed it on social media a bit). It doesn't surprise me at all that you would be suspicious and dismissive of Ayurveda - nor does it surprise me that you don't question the 9/11 Commission Report.

When I come at you in a debate here - I address your ideas and the positions you take - I don't come after you personally - nor do I have any desire to do so.

-->

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sat Mar-16-19 11:33 AM

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407. "Wait so these aren't ideas or positions?"
In response to Reply # 401


          

>It doesn't surprise me at all that you
>would be suspicious and dismissive of Ayurveda - nor does it
>surprise me that you don't question the 9/11 Commission
>Report.

It isn't a personal attack to point out that you're not interested in a rational understanding of the world.

You want to think that way? That's fine. (Or, at least, that's not the discussion we're having right now.) All I'm saying is that people should be aware that this is how you think when you're trying to put forward a pseudo-rational case for your naive bubble-born political views.

  

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Vex_id
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Mon Apr-15-19 10:03 AM

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462. "RE: Wait so these aren't ideas or positions?"
In response to Reply # 407


          

>>It doesn't surprise me at all that you
>>would be suspicious and dismissive of Ayurveda - nor does it
>>surprise me that you don't question the 9/11 Commission
>>Report.
>
>It isn't a personal attack to point out that you're not
>interested in a rational understanding of the world.

The fact that you correlate the 9/11 Commission Report with being a "rational understanding of the world" is really rich - and exposes your lack of critical thinking.

Moreover, the last thing I require is your validation of what you think is "rational" - particularly in the context of your gross endorsement of political malpractice.

  

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Marauder21
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Wed Mar-13-19 08:30 AM

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293. "The problem with all this is the image he has right now as"
In response to Reply # 290


  

          

Obama's regular guy buddy is going to fall apart when he has to run with his actual baggage. He's not going to have to answer for being VP, he's going to have to answer for everything else.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Mar-13-19 11:29 AM

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294. "Nate Silver: Polls do have some predictive value at this stage,"
In response to Reply # 290


          


and that's good news for Biden and Bernie.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/biden-and-bernies-support-isnt-just-name-recognition/

  

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Marauder21
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Wed Mar-13-19 01:31 PM

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298. "Old white voters and people nostalgic for Obama"
In response to Reply # 290


  

          

make up the progressive base?

Is "people nostalgic for Obama" a euphemism?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Mar-13-19 07:19 PM

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301. "I said "core of the coalition," not "base.""
In response to Reply # 298
Wed Mar-13-19 07:25 PM by stravinskian

          

The coalition is a much broader construct, and it's where most of our voters are, and it's where there's some value in working.

Stadiq was the one who brought up "older white voters." I was just pointing out that older voters matter, a lot. They show up to vote, AND they're sometimes persuadable. I was exaggerating when I said they were the "core" of the coalition, though. There really isn't a "core" to a coalition. That's the point of a coalition. Still, they represent votes we need to fight for.

As for "Obama nostalgia," I literally mean people who miss having Obama in office. There are a huge number of these people, crossing all demographic groupings and even party lines. A lot of people, even if they disagreed with "his policies," (and if they describe it with that word, they probably weren't paying much attention to policies anyway), miss the fact that he represented the nation with dignity, and it's easy for them to compare him with the current president, who is not. This is an enormous strength for us. And if the naive economic indicators don't change much in the coming year, it might be the only argument we as a party can make. We want to make it as effectively as possible. I don't think Biden is our best candidate, but I still admit he has a huge leg up on this extremely important aspect of the campaign.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Tue Mar-12-19 08:32 PM

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289. "For the record, this is why I liked Sherrod so much."
In response to Reply # 283


          

He seemed to have all the positives of Biden (apart from the direct Obama connection, which sadly nobody else will have), but was much more politically savvy.

I'm not writing Biden off yet. I've never been too worried about Democrats offending the base. Still, it's feeling like this is the beginning of an ugly race for Joe. Every time he's run he's become a gaffe machine, and this time he'll be out of practice. If Trump starts coming off as the more sensible, cogent candidate, God help us.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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292. "I agree here"
In response to Reply # 289


          

>He seemed to have all the positives of Biden (apart from the
>direct Obama connection, which sadly nobody else will have),
>but was much more politically savvy.
>

This is why I was a Sherrod guy as well. I just think
any Dem can cash in on Obama’s popularity once
the my win the nom.


>IEvery time he's
>run he's become a gaffe machine, and this time he'll be out of
>practice. If Trump starts coming off as the more sensible,
>cogent candidate, God help us.
>

Another fear of mine.

And the false equivalencies that the media will
create between the two.

And his age. And...ok I’ll stop. Y’all get it haha

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Mar-13-19 10:22 PM

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304. "Beto said he was Born to Run"
In response to Reply # 0


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
1412 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 01:06 AM

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305. "who da fuk says some dumb shit like dat after losin his last election yo"
In response to Reply # 304


          



lol



fuk i hate dis clown

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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306. "Someone who knows Texas ain’t shit "
In response to Reply # 305


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Marauder21
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Thu Mar-14-19 08:18 AM

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307. "LMAO"
In response to Reply # 305


  

          

Dude really should run for something else

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Thu Mar-14-19 10:45 AM

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308. "definitely a fumbled announcement"
In response to Reply # 304


  

          

the cover with the sad dog isnt great either. that twisted quote. the magazine being called vanity. doesnt look good.

heres the full quote

"It’s 10:30 P.M. and Amy is now curled up on a chair next to Beto, scrolling through e-mails. The kids are asleep. I ask O’Rourke if he could see himself among the presidential biographies on his shelf—Washington, Lincoln, Kennedy. “I haven’t really thought about that,” he says. “I think, ego-wise, we’re going to be O.K. if we don’t run. Where we won’t be O.K. is, if we don’t run and come to the conclusion later on, if we had run, man, this wouldn’t have happened. Things would have been a lot better. Or—”

“You didn’t do everything you could,” Amy says, completing his sentence.

“We didn’t do everything that we could,” he says.

Beto O’Rourke seems, in this moment, like a cliff diver trying to psych himself into the jump. And after playing coy all afternoon about whether he’ll run, he finally can’t deny the pull of his own gifts. “You can probably tell that I want to run,” he finally confides, smiling. “I do. I think I’d be good at it.”

“This is the fight of our lives,” he continues, “not the fight-of-my-political-life kind of crap.

But, like, this is the fight of our lives as Americans, and as humans, I’d argue.”

The more he talks, the more he likes the sound of what he’s saying. “I want to be in it,” he says, now leaning forward. “Man, I’m just born to be in it, and want to do everything I humanly can for this country at this moment.”"

not saying the context makes it a lot better and in this world soundbites matter more to people.

the article is actually full of a lot more areas to criticize him. it would be good to read something similar on all candidates. it was basically a very open and honest look into him.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/03/beto-orourke-cover-story?verso=true

i do have concerns about him, some brought up by this story. i do think overall he wants to move the country in the right direction. he is definitely more so on the side of, lets do this in steps instead of lets do this now camp.

right now he would be my choice. yang has actually grown a lot on me. i would project that my vote would be for yang followed by bernie followed by beto. we will see how things play out.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Thu Mar-14-19 01:59 PM

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311. "That dog does look sad"
In response to Reply # 308


  

          

n/m

---------------------------
Signature

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 02:56 PM

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317. "That dog looks like he knows something we dont"
In response to Reply # 311


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Mynoriti
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310. "I like Beto but that announcement was so dull i couldn't finish"
In response to Reply # 304


  

          

All uphill from here, my man.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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312. "He had enough time to get it right"
In response to Reply # 304


  

          

and still didn't get it right.

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 02:18 PM

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313. "cory booker winning the only primary that matters."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/TMZ/status/1106269278825644032

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
40925 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 02:30 PM

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314. "Wow, from Eric Andre to Luke Cage to Cory Booker?!?"
In response to Reply # 313


  

          

That's an unexpected shift

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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Marauder21
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Thu Mar-14-19 02:35 PM

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316. "Wait, did she and Mike Colter actually date in real life?"
In response to Reply # 314


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Marauder21
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315. "Crushing blow to Bernie's campaign"
In response to Reply # 313


  

          

Not really, of course, but good for him. Even if you're a well-off Senator and current presidential candidate, that's hitting WAAAAY out of your league.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Vex_id
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326. "lol "
In response to Reply # 315


          


-->

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 03:02 PM

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318. "Lmao. For some reason this seems scripted"
In response to Reply # 313


          

Ionno, just seems like he found an actress to play his GF so he wouldn’t be asked about being single.







****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 03:43 PM

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320. "i would think rosario would have more integrity than to go with that"
In response to Reply # 318


  

          

shes seem like a real cool person that wouldnt fake it. i wouldnt be surprised if she actually prefers other candidates for the nomination than him lol

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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330. "I don’t know her.. just seems like we will never see them looking "
In response to Reply # 320


          

like a legit couple

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Marauder21
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344. "I guess they've been seen together over the last few months"
In response to Reply # 330


  

          

I don't think it's staged, but it's certainly unexpected.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Mar-14-19 04:10 PM

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322. "they're gonna stage one of those cringy MJ/LisaMarie kisses"
In response to Reply # 318


  

          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 03:41 PM

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319. "the media is clearly gonna paint bernie as a rising socialist dictator."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1106284533782073353

i even see some of the more normally sensible 'never trumpers' talking about him as a populist authoritarian.

these folks view policies supported by the majority of working americans as more of a threat than the 40% or less anti-constitutional far right demagogue agenda embodied in trump.

on morning joe a few days ago...they were absolutely baffled that bernie was top 2 in polls and gaining on biden (after announcing). dude was the most nationally viable contender in 2016 not named clinton/trump who only *increased* his national recognition up to now. would they be confused by anyone else with those credentials in that position?

bernie obviously isnt my chosen candidate this time around.

but i will happily vote for him if he is the nominee.

the fucked up part is...if he is eventually the dem nominee...he will already have to contend with a disproportionate amount of oppo research done by mainstream media outlets themselves.

trump, the media, and howard schultz are all gonna be pushing the same coordinated anti-socialist smear campaign.

2020 is gonna be a rough one fam. i really hope we can push through the bullshit and stay hardened behind the dem candidate...even if its not our personal favorite.

  

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rob
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Thu Mar-14-19 04:12 PM

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323. "I don’t think I care. I just want to get the ball rolling."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I’m pretty sure Warren and Beto ain’t it. I’m really pissed Beto isn’t running for Senate.

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Mar-14-19 05:33 PM

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325. "Beto has had months (years even) to produce a policy platform."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Mar-14-19 05:33 PM by Vex_id

          

He prepares this announcement with zero policy prescriptions? Particularly when the receipts are being rolled out to show that he's actually center-right on many issues democrats care about?

Organizationally - this is a horrible look. Oprah interview and Vanity Fair feature were cute - but the "I'm born to do this" Bruce Springsteen vibe will deflate very quickly without substantive policy prescriptions that vibe w/ the base.

-->

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 06:01 PM

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327. "youre not wrong"
In response to Reply # 325


  

          

there should definitely be more than shop, jobs and donate on his website right now. it doesnt have to be that specific even. the vanity piece did touch on some policies but you have to read through all the history and blah blah.

not a good start. its early but he needs to add some policy information on his site soon.

  

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SeV
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Thu Mar-14-19 06:22 PM

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329. "and Bernie has had 3yrs"
In response to Reply # 325


  

          

hes been outlining the same big ideas he had in 2016 campaign

and folk were waiting and asking on details and how he would implement them

2019 and its still the same shyt




____________

DALLAS LAKERICKS LETS GO!!

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Mar-14-19 06:28 PM

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331. "obama didnt list policies on his site for more than a month."
In response to Reply # 325


          

he built his platform through listening to people on the stump. part of his pitch in iowa (along with the legendary amount of field offices there).

didnt seem to turn out too bad for him lol.

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Mar-14-19 07:23 PM

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332. "wow the Beto O'bama coronation is underway lol"
In response to Reply # 331


          

Not so fast, though.

Obama had real progressive chops going into 2008. He was vocally opposed to the Iraq war - had a strong progressive record in the Senate - and wasn't afraid to take bold policy stances.

Beto has none of that. To the contrary - his record reflects that he supports fracking, is pro-AIPAC, is cozy with fossil fuel and oil & gas industries, hasn't supported the fight for 15, hasn't supported Green New Deal, hasn't supported MCA, doesn't want to break up the big banks (in fact, he supported to deregulate them), has been pro-interventionism abroad etc... etc...

He is an aspirational candidate with genuine charisma - but let's be clear: He's no Obama.

-->

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Mar-14-19 08:17 PM

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334. "wait i thought kamala was the establishment coronation candidate lol."
In response to Reply # 332


          

i cant keep track.

i wasnt comparing beto to obama. was just saying the lack of a detailed public policy outline wasnt much of an obstacle.

didnt stop obama. obviously didnt stop trump lol.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Fri Mar-15-19 10:12 AM

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348. "beto has definitely clearly voiced many items he stands for"
In response to Reply # 332


  

          

I think he should had listed some of these by yesterday, not even policies but just some goals/ideas. then follow up with more details based on what he learns by speaking to people.

most people are not going to search for youtube clips and interviews to figure out what you stand for. if he does put it up within a couple of months he will negate the issue.

he shouldnt be coronated right now but the hate is ridiculous too.

  

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Vex_id
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359. "he has - and he often stands with republicans"
In response to Reply # 348


          

Not sure how that's going to jive in a Democratic primary. He's aspirational - no doubt. Has a lot of charisma. An optimist always feels good on the stump - but I actually think voters (particularly primary voters) are more interested in policy and ideas than most give them credit for. They aren't wonks - per se - but they definitely want to know where you stand.

Thus far, Beto has stated that "he doesn't have all the answers" when questioned on policy stances. I think Obama is a once in a generation political talent (like JFK). I don't regard Beto as being on that level to where he can just get away with vague policy stances because of his charisma and political ability.

-->

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11819 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 07:43 PM

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333. "nah, not feeling Carcetti 2020"
In response to Reply # 325


  

          

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
1412 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 09:45 PM

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335. "not to mention he flip flopped like a mfucka bout runnin to begin wit"
In response to Reply # 325
Thu Mar-14-19 09:48 PM by _explain555

          

like not even 6 months ago a mfucka was like i aint runnin in 2020 no matta what i dont want it blah blah blah

homie really treatin dis shit like a run for prom king

he lame af


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-archives-beto-orourke-said-he-wouldnt-run-for-president-in-2020/


Thursday morning, Beto O'Rourke announced he is running for president. The former Texas congressman is just three and a half months removed from a narrow loss for Ted Cruz's Senate seat after a campaign that made the 46-year-old a national figure. While reporting on that race, 60 Minutes correspondent Jon Wertheim asked O'Rourke if he had plans to run for president in 2020. O'Rourke said, win or lose, "I'm not running in 2020." Below is a transcript of that exchange.

JON WERTHEIM: We've heard a lotta people speculate that you and Sen. Cruz may face each other again, not in a Senate rematch but running for a higher office. What are your thoughts on-- on running for president?

BETO O'ROURKE: I don't wanna do it. I will not do it. Amy and I are raisin' an 11-year-old, a 10-year-old and a 7-year-old. And we spent the better part of the last two years not with each other, missing birthdays and anniversaries and time together. And we-- we-- our-- our family could not survive more of that. We, we need to be together.

JON WERTHEIM: Is that reversible? You're saying you'll, you'll never run for president?

BETO O'ROURKE: I'm saying that if elected to the Senate, I'll serve every day of that six-year term, that I'm not lookin' at 2020. And, and, in fact, am completely ruling that out, not going to do that.

JON WERTHEIM: No matter what? Win or lose you're not gonna run--

BETO O'ROURKE: Win or lose--

JON WERTHEIM: --in 2020?

BETO" O'ROURKE: Win or lose, I'm not-- I'm not running in, in 2020. I gotta tell you, it's incredibly flattering that anyone would ask me the question or that that's even up for discussion. But, but since people have asked, the answer's no.

JON WERTHEIM: You didn't sidestep that.

BETO O'ROURKE: No.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 10:26 PM

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336. "LOL, speaking of Obama parallels. "
In response to Reply # 335


          

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
1412 posts
Thu Mar-14-19 10:47 PM

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337. "you gotta link playa?"
In response to Reply # 336


          


  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Thu Mar-14-19 11:03 PM

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338. "Ask and ye shall receive."
In response to Reply # 337


          


https://www.nbcnews.com/video/mtp-remembers-sen-obama-in-06-i-wont-run-for-president-130042947833

I'm not saying Obama was doing anything wrong. Quite the contrary. Politicians have to do this. When you're running for one office, it's taboo to say you're thinking about another office, even if you are. And even if you're not, situations can change.

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
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Fri Mar-15-19 12:55 AM

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340. "man pls i could see like a year n some before hilldawg did dat shit too"
In response to Reply # 338


          



beto sayin da shit like a few months ago come across way different fuk dat


mfucka runnin for pres on some FOMO shit


it shows too





  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Fri Mar-15-19 08:21 AM

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342. "When folks told me he wasn’t running"
In response to Reply # 340


          

All I could do is laugh.

Politicians do this all the time.

Biden officially announce yet? Dude been almost running for 5 years.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Fri Mar-15-19 09:32 AM

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346. "LOL I’m crying"
In response to Reply # 335


          


>
>homie really treatin dis shit like a run for prom king
>

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Mar-15-19 11:43 AM

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358. "the media apparently loves proms."
In response to Reply # 335


          

>homie really treatin dis shit like a run for prom king

it was a misfire in a couple ways imo.

but dude dominated coverage more than any other candidate. the good and the bad.

i mean...he had national news journos chasing him around to coffee shops and gas stations on his way to speaking to small venues of 50 people lol. you dont even see other candidates campaign stops in iowa outside of their twitter feed.

the convo about him/trump hand gestures was a headline story in itself.

his iowa tour is damn near impromptu (dude is still asking around to build his ground team). and he still had the most visible launch there of all the candidates.

i dont think people realize how much of an advantage you have now when you can command headlines. the entire way information/content is produced and consumed is built to enable monopolies of fixation. your social media engagement is strong, algorithms amplify it, mainstream media is forced to cover it while its hot so their engagement is consistently strong (+ ad rates), algorithms amplify it, people react/discuss, people react/discuss the reaction/discussion, algorithms amplify it, your social media engagement is strong, and on and on.

the economy of attention. dominated by a handful of commodities (kim k, ye, etc).

my feeling is that his initial interest/fundraising will come in kinda soft (compared to expectations) because it wasnt well organized (they were literally gathering texters and phone bankers the day before). he maybe comes in somewhere between harris and bernie. but dude is gonna campaign relentlessly/creatively and suck up so much space in the media that he will be at the top (money and media share) by the summer. prolly be among the top polling contenders after a few debates.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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381. "Beto, Biden, and Bernie"
In response to Reply # 358


          

Definitely seem to have the media advantage, which
I agree will be very important.

And based on all the emails I’ve received already I’m
guessing you’re right about coming in low lol.

Beto fan or not that prom king joke was hilarious

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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388. "the media will cover all 3 differently too."
In response to Reply # 381


          

the media will try to promote biden heavily (mainly because he resonates the most with the execs and lead anchors). but audiences are gonna gradually tune him out. he just aint built for the retweet/notification era.

bernies media coverage is going to be pretty negative and his interviews slightly confrontational (socialism, personality style, etc). just imagine if kamala harris was close in polls to joe biden and had a monster fundraising haul dwarfing the combined totals of his next few serious competitors. now look at how bernie is covered.

the beto coverage is gonna be both positive and negative but constant, compelling, and episodic in nature. in a way that people wanna tune into regularly and watch the character develop.

basically the media is gonna elevate beto, try to elevate biden, and try to deflate bernie.

that prom shit was def funny tho lol. dude just winging it out here like the future of the world aint on the line lol.

  

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Reeq
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387. "see its shit like this that is gonna make beto inescapable:"
In response to Reply # 358


          

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-politics-beto-orourke/

a lot of people might see that and think its a negative hit.

but all it really does is personalize the candidate and continue to make him a fascination worth exploring. and what you might find is way more interesting than bernies old views on cuba or bidens old views on integration.

who else is getting an edgy write-up like that (and from a pretty standard by-the-book media organization and not slate, buzzfeed, etc).

just the fact they investigated and ran that knowing people would read it....

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
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Fri Mar-15-19 08:14 AM

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341. "Booker's dating Rosario Dawson? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That bumps him up a little. lol

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
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343. "late pass"
In response to Reply # 341


  

          

didn't see Reeq's post above

  

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Marauder21
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345. "At this point, it seems like the upper tier* candidates are"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Biden (no way he's not running)
Sanders
Harris
Warren
O'Rourke
Booker

And I'm not sure if those last three are going to be in that kind of position by the end of 2019.

I want to see Butigeig (sp) or Inslee get in there, but I feel like it's just not feasible given the name recognition and money of the other candidates.

I think after the first four states, we're looking at a Harris/Sanders race, with Biden still running because he's trying to convince people he can still win (a la Rubio in the 2016 GOP race.)

*in terms of possibility to win the nomination, not who I want

------

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stravinskian
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Fri Mar-15-19 10:07 AM

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347. "Klobuchar is on that list as well."
In response to Reply # 345


          


I know you don't like her (for President, at least, IIRC), and I have reservations that I'll have to work out over the campaign. But still, if the voters decide to go overtly centrist but don't want Biden, then right now Klobuchar would be their choice. I'd actually put her ahead of Booker, O'Rourke, and maybe even Warren in terms of likelihood.

  

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Marauder21
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349. "Is she polling well?"
In response to Reply # 347


  

          

Because it seems like she has dropped out of the conversation in the weeks after her announcement.

If people are going in a more centrist direction, why do you think she would be the choice over Harris or O'Rourke? They both seem to have more momentum (though Beto JUST announced, so we'll see if that lasts.)

------

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stravinskian
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Fri Mar-15-19 10:48 AM

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350. "I haven't been paying much attention to the polls yet."
In response to Reply # 349


          

But the way Iowa works, retail campaigning can cause big shifts over time, and she definitely has the time.

For the record, I just checked, and right now on RCP she's basically even with Booker, but significantly ahead of (meaning 3% vs 1%, lol) Castro, whom I also think we can't ignore.

>Because it seems like she has dropped out of the conversation
>in the weeks after her announcement.
>
>If people are going in a more centrist direction, why do you
>think she would be the choice over Harris or O'Rourke? They
>both seem to have more momentum (though Beto JUST announced,
>so we'll see if that lasts.)

Well, Harris is most definitely NOT running as a centrist. I know a lot of self-identified progressives think of her as one, but for example she's been explicitly running on Medicare for all, whereas Klobuchar is pushing the "let's protect and expand Obamacare" line. A lot of Democrats will prefer that more cautious approach, and my guess is Klobuchar and Biden may be the only two to take it.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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352. "biden is allegedly exploring a joint campaign with stacey abrams."
In response to Reply # 345
Fri Mar-15-19 11:07 AM by Reeq

          

where she is explicitly his vp from the gate.

if so...that could be a game changer.

it also means dems are passing up first choice senate candidates in about every key state but arizona.

  

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Teknontheou
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353. "It'd be a brilliant move on his part. "
In response to Reply # 352


  

          

It more or less neutralizes Kamala. It satisfies the ados wing (though I doubt Biden or his people are paying any attention to that explicitly). It shields him from the certain attacks on his past re the racial stuff, Anita Hill, etc. And it might help him flip Georgia, which would be the major win at the presidential level for the DNC post Bill Clinton.

  

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Stadiq
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Fri Mar-15-19 11:35 AM

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356. "up above I asked how much a VP candidate can really do"
In response to Reply # 353
Fri Mar-15-19 11:37 AM by Stadiq

          

for a campaign.

I legit had Joe picking Stacey in my mind, as that would make me feel much more comfortable with his chances.

That said, I feel a certain way about it happening in the primary. Why doesn't SHE just throw her hat in, then?

I mean, if she isn't going to run for Senate (which I'd probably prefer)...why settle for Uncle Joe's race/gender cover in the primary??

And if Beto can run, why can't Stacey?





  

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Teknontheou
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361. "It's too early for Beto, too, though. He's not going to break out in"
In response to Reply # 356
Fri Mar-15-19 11:55 AM by Teknontheou

  

          

this field. She knows better than to try this soon.

For her, at this point, a good shot at a VP role is better than a "maybe" for the senate or the next gubernatorial race.

  

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Stadiq
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370. "RE: It's too early for Beto, too, though. He's not going to break out in"
In response to Reply # 361


          

>this field. She knows better than to try this soon.
>
>For her, at this point, a good shot at a VP role is better
>than a "maybe" for the senate or the next gubernatorial race.

Hmm yeah good point I guess if she lost the Senate race it would be a big now what moment, though she could just try again for gov...but there is surely a limit on how many times you can lose.


This would be brilliant for Biden though. I would feel better about his run, looks like others would too.


It looks like she has met with a few of the candidates in the race too, though.

  

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stravinskian
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Fri Mar-15-19 11:56 AM

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364. "Maybe Stacey's more of a realist than Beto is."
In response to Reply # 356


          


She's well aware that she doesn't have the same white male privilege that Beto does.

She also knows that any tiny misstep will be painted as her "not being ready for the national stage," and it could kill her career forever. But runningmates get more leeway on that front.

Also, nobody "decides" who can run and who can't. You seem to hold this image of a shadowy cabal *choosing* which candidates are allowed to run.

  

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Stadiq
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367. "fair point but you misunderstood"
In response to Reply # 364


          

>
>She's well aware that she doesn't have the same white male
>privilege that Beto does.
>
>She also knows that any tiny misstep will be painted as her
>"not being ready for the national stage," and it could kill
>her career forever. But runningmates get more leeway on that
>front.

Good points. I still think I'd rather her run for senate though.

>
>Also, nobody "decides" who can run and who can't. You seem to
>hold this image of a shadowy cabal *choosing* which candidates
>are allowed to run.
>

Not at all. I was more speaking to white male privilege for Beto and basically saying "any criticism one can throw at Stacey, one can and should throw at Beto"

I'm well aware no one is choosing who runs lol


It also looks like she's met with several candidates too.

  

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stravinskian
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Fri Mar-15-19 01:05 PM

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377. "alright, I can see that"
In response to Reply # 367
Fri Mar-15-19 01:10 PM by stravinskian

          

>>Also, nobody "decides" who can run and who can't. You seem
>to
>>hold this image of a shadowy cabal *choosing* which
>candidates
>>are allowed to run.
>>
>
>Not at all. I was more speaking to white male privilege for
>Beto and basically saying "any criticism one can throw at
>Stacey, one can and should throw at Beto"
>
>I'm well aware no one is choosing who runs lol

My apologies for taking you the wrong way. I thought it was a continuation of the old story of how Hillary somehow told people they weren't allowed to run.

  

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Stadiq
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379. "RE: arrighty, I can see that"
In response to Reply # 377


          


Gotcha. No problem -I could have been more clear with my point.

  

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Vex_id
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366. "It would be brilliant for Biden - but not so much for Abrams"
In response to Reply # 353


          


-->

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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371. "the more that i think about it...the more i think it would be beneath he..."
In response to Reply # 366


          

not that vp isnt a high honor.

but...even tho a vp is somewhat a calculated prop to attract certain voters in itself...there is still some plausible belief that the vp is ready to step in and run the country if need be.

thats not really part of the equation at all here tho imo. its a nakedly cynical move to attract black/younger/progressive voters and thats it. shes essentially a pure base lure like sarah palin.

she also potentially uses up all of her political powder on it too (just like palin).

she also potentially looks like a fool being the 'black help' trying to provide cover for the beating he is gonna take on criminal justice and past racial dialogue.

i find it hard to envision a scenario where she doesnt come off looking 'used'.

theres also an implicit admission that biden prolly doesnt believe voters would nominate him on his own merit. thats kinda problematic.

  

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Marauder21
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374. "Yeah, it reminds me of Cruz picking Fiorna as his running mate"
In response to Reply # 371


  

          

in a last ditch effort to distract from Trump last time.

She's got a very good shot at becoming a US senator (or governor, which carries even more authority) and it would suck to see her throw that away to be Biden's new black friend (which is the role she'd be forced to play in the campaign.)

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Vex_id
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376. "agreed - I don't see how it serves her to ride Biden's coattails "
In response to Reply # 371


          

particularly early in the process. If Biden emerges as the nominee - then I could certainly see utility for her in running as his VP if that's the ticket - but that's a big "if" - and Abrams is a star in her own right who should be advised to carve her own optimistic future within Georgia and the party.


-->

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
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Fri Mar-15-19 01:08 PM

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378. "man i'd feel sorry for abrams if she finna be out there defendin his rac..."
In response to Reply # 371


          



bullshit from back inna day

da crime bill shit

da anita hill shit


lol @ biden scoutin black folk to help his image


its like he know he got so much more legitimacy bein on a mixed ticket before so he goin for what works


unless he make reparations and voter protection a shit key policy point and they start pushin dat shit from jump ok yea i could see dat


but otherwise shits finna look mad tokeny on sum black sara palin shit


i wouldnt be mad if she dont go for dis shit man


as a senator she'd be dope af

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Fri Mar-15-19 11:32 AM

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355. "Yeah, that could be a field-clearing move."
In response to Reply # 352


          


I roll my eyes at Biden, but I could get excited by a ticket like that.

I assume it would also come with the implication (either implicit or explicit), that SHE would be the candidate in 2024, not Joe. And I'm sure there would also be the implication that she would be as deeply involved in decision-making as Biden was for Obama.

I will say, if they CAN'T make this work, then it was a BIG mistake to have let it be floated as an idea. I think most people would now find a Biden ticket, without Abrams, even more disappointing than we would have before.

  

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double 0
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427. "RE: biden is allegedly exploring a joint campaign with stacey abrams."
In response to Reply # 352


          

This was my inkling from jump...

When Chris Hayes had her on the podcast she said that she was in a meeting with Chuck Schumer for "something else he wanted to discuss" when he asked her about the Democratic response.

It definitely felt like he called her down to DC to talk about the pres. race in some capacity. Her running with Biden might be perfect balance though I truly do think she could accelerate to the top of the pack on her own.

Double 0
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-------------------------------------------
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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Mar-15-19 10:59 AM

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351. "'bernie beating kamala 2:1 among black dem primary voters' lol"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/RoseAnnDeMoro/status/1103469738796044288

reality:
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1106360234438782978
https://twitter.com/SDGoBlue/status/1106360927899664385

black people are almost *half* the population in north charleston
https://twitter.com/postandcourier/status/1106570748926189568


bernie folks can try to comb over his issue with black voters all they want. the difference in those 2 rallies at the same exact venue is striking tho. his campaign should be taking this more seriously.

it doesnt look like hes making much of an improvement in the south over 2016. his saving grace could be the black vote split between harris, biden, booker, etc tho.

  

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Vex_id
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357. "so we're using photos to debunk polling data now? lol"
In response to Reply # 351


          

yikes.

-->

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Mar-15-19 11:54 AM

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362. "'oh so we believing our own eyes now?'"
In response to Reply # 357


          

  

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Vex_id
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365. "you can turn on a game and watch a guy score 6 in 2 mins."
In response to Reply # 362


          

only to find out that he finished the game with 9 points.

Don't be that guy.

-->

  

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Reeq
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368. "or you can not watch the game at all and just believe pre-game takes."
In response to Reply # 365


          

dont be that guy.

  

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Vex_id
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369. "let's move on here lol"
In response to Reply # 368
Fri Mar-15-19 12:36 PM by Vex_id

          


-->

  

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Reeq
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373. "are you trying to convince me or yourself? lol."
In response to Reply # 369


          

do you believe the polls that said donald trump has 30% approval among black voters too? lol.

*half* the population in north charleston is black. *60%* of registered democrats in sc are black.

kamala had an expectedly diverse crowd at her rally (as have other dems). bernie had like 5 black people in his rally (and 1 was a hired singer lol).

do you know how bad you have to be doing with black voters in sc to have a crowd that white in north charleston? you could intentionally/systematically exclude them from the event and it wouldnt look much different lol.

this is following a colossal meltdown with black voters in the south in 2016 that his campaign tried to berniesplain through.

and your response is 'but muh polls tho!'?

lol cmon fam. you cant be this obtuse/dismissive.

  

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Vex_id
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375. "not at all. I'm just curious as to what the standard is now"
In response to Reply # 373


          

circumstantial evidence of photos that show varying crowds in SC via a tiny sample size does not debunk polling.

The polling isn't gospel - it's also a limited sample size - but I'd argue the polling is far more reliable than cherry-picked photos of a singular campaign event in February.

Bernie will do better with black voters and it's not crazy to think that he'll out-pace Kamala with the black vote (as that report illustrated). You are still stuck on where the party was 10 years ago. Bernie isn't running against the Clinton Machine which had strong roots with black voters. He's a better known entity now and will do better than he did in 2016 in the south. Will it be enough? Who knows - but it's pretty baseless to assume that Kamala will be stronger than him based on the photos (while all the polling suggests otherwise).


-->

  

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Reeq
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383. "not tryna be snarky but reality is the standard."
In response to Reply # 375
Fri Mar-15-19 02:03 PM by Reeq

          

one of the top 2 most well-known candidates running to be the standard bearer for a party that 90% of black people vote for...held a campaign rally in a state where 60% of registered members of that party are black...in a city where 50% of all residents are black.

and the crowd was 99% white like he was in vermont.

dude had a gospel singer on stage so clearly he planned to have some black people there lol.

disregard polls for a second vex. whats your sincere best-case reasoning for such an extraordinarily low level of black attendance in such a substantially black city with a profoundly black state political party?

just an off night?

mind you...this issue isnt exactly an aberration coming out of thin air. it was maybe his defining achilles heel in 2016.

you dont see any potential problems/consequences with a democratic party leader struggling mightily to even attract members of a demographic that vote for that party 9 out of every 10?

  

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Vex_id
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390. "You have to look at context, here."
In response to Reply # 383


          

This was a very small town in South Carolina with largely older (black and white) voters. South Carolina as a state is one of the most conservative states in the country. Voters there (including older black voters) resonate more with traditional values centrists - they aren't particularly progressive.

So it's not surprising that Bernie hasn't found a strong home in one of the most conservative states in the country where only ~15% of the population describes themselves as liberal.

Let's see how Sanders does with the black vote all across the country - particularly in states which are younger and more diverse in parts of the country that lean more liberal. My sense is that he'll do very well in the aggregate - particularly with younger, more diverse voters (a segment of the electorate he dominated with in 2016 - earning more votes than Trump & Clinton combined).




-->

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Mar-15-19 05:21 PM

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397. "entirely possible."
In response to Reply # 390


          

but to also put it in proper context...*southern* black voters are specifically important here. because they make up such a large share of dem primary voters in those states. 55% of black people live in the south. more than the northeast, midwest, southwest, and west combined.

so you could conceivably do well with black voters elsewhere...but if you do poorly with black voters in the south...that could be an insurmountable hole (like 2016).

as far as not appealing to conservative/centrist dems in sc...isnt that an issue too for someone looking to represent the entire party?

hillary was still able to win liberal states like cali, ny, mass, etc. like hillary won progressive san fran county by a bigger margin than the more conservative orange county.

shouldnt bernie be able to at least make *some* inroads there instead of solely relying on his base within the base?

  

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Vex_id
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406. "Yes - Bernie will have to make inroads in the south"
In response to Reply # 397


          

there's no doubt about that. I think he will. My point is that he's not running against a multi-decade known commodity who (for whatever reason) was endeared by black voters. Now, Bernie is a known commodity with the most diverse campaign team/co-chairs ever - and his message should resonate fairly broadly.

Also - Bernie did win 22 states in the primary against Clinton (with all her advantages going into the race) - so I think he's already demonstrated that he has broad appeal. But he will absolutely have to build upon that - not just to win the dem primary - but to win the general.

-->

  

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Vex_id
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579. "LOL at reading this in hindsight. "
In response to Reply # 351


          

>https://twitter.com/RoseAnnDeMoro/status/1103469738796044288
>
>reality:
>https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1106360234438782978
>https://twitter.com/SDGoBlue/status/1106360927899664385
>
>black people are almost *half* the population in north
>charleston
>https://twitter.com/postandcourier/status/1106570748926189568
>
>
>bernie folks can try to comb over his issue with black voters
>all they want. the difference in those 2 rallies at the same
>exact venue is striking tho. his campaign should be taking
>this more seriously.
>
>it doesnt look like hes making much of an improvement in the
>south over 2016. his saving grace could be the black vote
>split between harris, biden, booker, etc tho.


-->

  

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Vex_id
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363. "The rift in opinion here largely reflects disagreement on this:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

There are some here who surmise that the Democratic electorate is still mostly centrist/moderate - while others cite the base as increasingly more Progressive.

I actually think this will be the first primary where the Progressive electorate will signal a very real, identifiable shift in where the party is. For the first time, more than 50% of the Democratic electorate has identified as "Progressive" - which is a very real thing.

This change in voter behavior is buoyed by the fact that the Millennial are now the largest voting bloc in the country - and are also older and more involved in the political process than they were 5, 10 years ago.

The progressive message is already predominating the discussion and debate within the party - and it's likely that a progressive will carry the day in terms of mobilizing the largest voting bloc in the country to come out and rebuke Donald Trump.

It will be fun to see how it plays out.
-->

  

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Marauder21
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Fri Mar-15-19 12:42 PM

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372. "There was a thing in Buzzfeed a little bit ago talking to D voters in"
In response to Reply # 363


  

          

early primary states about what they mean by electability. It means all kinds of thing to all kinds of people, but the notion that it automatically means a centrist/moderate seems to be based in some outdated (or wishful) thinking.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/democrats-2020-electability-president

NASHUA, New Hampshire — When a group of voters leaving an event for Sen. Elizabeth Warren piled into an elevator, buttoning up coats and putting on gloves, the conversation immediately turned to a familiar topic.

“They’re all good — all of the Democrats,” one woman said. “The question is, who’s going to be able to go up against Trump? Take all his bullshit and throw it back to at him.”

“Honestly,” a stranger agreed. “That’s all I care about.”

“They have to be as ruthless as he is,” a third woman said.

But the first woman disagreed. “Not even ruthless — just smart. That’s all I want.”

They laughed. As the elevator door opened, one added: “Let’s just beat the bastard.”

In past presidential elections, Democrats sought out candidates who shared their values and priorities. But this time, in the shadow of President Donald Trump, polls show many Democratic voters are prioritizing one thing: electability.

In some circles, the word “electable” has become a proxy for moderate — a political centrist whose policies appeal to swing voters in states Trump won in 2016. Sen. Amy Klobuchar has electability, some say, because she won reelection by broad margins in Minnesota, a state where Trump barely lost in 2016. Allies of Joe Biden, with his history of bipartisanship and working-class centrism, claim electability is his strongest case for the Democratic nomination.

Who might not have it? Mostly candidates in the most progressive wing of the party: Elizabeth Warren might have an “electability problem.” So, some have worried, might Bernie Sanders.

But the vast majority of Democratic voters aren’t thinking about electability in terms of ideology, geography, or electoral margin, according to interviews with more than 50 Democratic voters in early primary states.

Far from tying electability to centrism or moderation, voters said they cared about rhetoric, personality, energy, and momentum when deciding if a candidate could win. Many others said they were looking primarily for someone who spoke specifically to the concerns of working-class people. Some wanted a fighter who could parry Trump’s rhetoric. Just two said they were looking for a political moderate.

Their answers illustrate a conundrum for Democratic candidates in 2020. What is seemingly a broad voter consensus — that Democratic voters are searching for electability — is, in reality, a much more varied desire.

What voters are actually saying also undercuts a narrative about the choices Democrats will make in the 2020 primaries. While polls have forced Democrats to reckon with choices between candidates who agree with them on issues and those who might beat Trump, voters overwhelmingly said they saw little conflict between the issues they cared about, like Medicare for All and income inequality, and a candidate’s electability.

Jonathan Lamb, a meteorologist in West Ashley, South Carolina, attended an event for Sen. Kamala Harris in February to “get a feel for whether she’s electable — though I don’t know how you quantify that.”

“I put a lot of weight into how they speak,” he said. He was passionate about lots of “political hot potatoes,” like gun control and reproductive rights, but in the end, his decision would come down to one thing: “I’m just trying to imagine this person debating Donald Trump, and how they would hold up.”

Anita Wilkie of Plymouth, New Hampshire, said her priority was to find a candidate who could beat Trump in 2020; she had been making the rounds to candidates’ early events, looking for someone who she thought would be electable.

“That’s it, that’s exactly it,” she said at an event for Sen. Elizabeth Warren in February. “I was telling my sister this morning, ‘I know each candidate is not going to agree with what I want; it can’t happen that way. It’s the electability.’”

But what “electability” would look like, Wilkie couldn’t quite say. “It’s gotta touch me,” she said. “It’s gotta touch me, not just in my heart, but in my gut. I go by my gut feeling.”

On the eve of the 2018 midterms, the center-left think tank Third Way, which has opposed many far-left policies, posed a question for Democrats and independents in battleground districts across the country. To win future elections, would they want to see the Democratic Party “move to the left to generate enthusiasm” or “appeal to a broad range of voters, including people who may have voted for Donald Trump in 2016”? Seventy percent of respondents said they wanted the party to seek broad appeal instead of move to the left; the think tank touted it as evidence of support for their politics.

Voters in New Hampshire and South Carolina often spoke of “broad appeal” too — something many said was the most important thing for a candidate to have in order to beat Trump. But they didn’t see appeal as Third Way envisioned it — as a choice between policy directions.

Many voters looking to find a candidate with “broad appeal” said they were looking at the way candidates spoke — hoping to find someone who “phrased things in a mainstream way,” as one voter said, or who “emphasized the working people.” Others said they were looking at who appealed widely by speaking to the concerns of racial minorities; one said that to him, “broad appeal” meant speaking better to white women.

Electability was “absolutely” important to Kathy, a university employee who attended an event for Warren at Plymouth State University in New Hampshire. “They have to be able to speak to everyone’s concerns, not just a narrow segment,” she said.

That ability wasn’t rooted in whether someone was progressive or moderate, Kathy said. “In the age of Trump, the way you talk about things is really important. Even more than what you say, it’s how you say it.”

Some pollsters have set up Democrats for a conflict between prioritizing the issues they care about and doing whatever they can to beat Trump. Monmouth, in February, asked whether Democrats would prefer “a Democrat you agree with on most issues but would have a hard time beating Donald Trump” to one who they did not agree with but could more easily defeat Trump. Most picked the Democrat who would beat Trump more easily.

But in interviews, most Democratic voters rejected the idea that the two choices were at odds. Progressives, especially, said they thought that being on the far left edge of issues would be a boost against Trump, rather than a hindrance. Some said they thought progressive policies themselves were the missing piece to a candidate who had “broad appeal.”

Electability is “someone who’s not afraid to be a Democrat,” said Heather Levine, a teacher in North Charleston, South Carolina, who attended a Harris rally in February. “I’m not interested in a moderate who will back down. I think that’s the mistake we made in 2016. We didn’t get that excitement going. It needs to be about policy.”

Few Democrats said they saw a reason to compromise on the issues that were important to them, like health care — even as they sought, first and foremost, to find someone who could win the next election.

Austin Atkinson, a sports agent in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina, said he didn’t need a candidate who agreed with him on many issues. A lifelong Republican with little love for Trump, he’d come to an event for Harris in a South Carolina gymnasium to judge the “energy” around Harris’s campaign. Could Harris beat Trump? “That’s why I’m here,” he said, “to see.”

It didn’t bother him that Harris, who supports progressive policies like Medicare for All and the Green New Deal, was far to the left of him on many issues.

“I just need someone who will stick to their guns and represent the people that elected them and not cater to special interests,” Atkinson said.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Vex_id
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386. "good read."
In response to Reply # 372


          

Clintonian centrism is really unpalatable to the dem. electorate right now. The evidence of that is in the discussion itself - which is now being steered in a different direction which speak directly to the needs of the people.

Progressivism isn't merely populism (as some analysts tend to over-simplify its appeal) - it's also indicative of where humanity must go in order to actually progress (reversing climate change, cleaning up waters/food supply, neutralizing monopolized industries, halting elective, offensive wars, administering a more abundant distribution of resources to raise quality of life etc..)

There has been a very clear and accumulative energy building towards progressivism rising within the democratic party - and it's likely here to stay for 2020 and the foreseeable future. Hopefully, it can start to infuse a futurist republican party that reforms itself drastically - just as the democratic party is in the process of doing.

  

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Eric B Is Prez
Member since Nov 08th 2005
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Fri Mar-15-19 01:55 PM

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385. "This is stating the obvious, but it's all about turnout"
In response to Reply # 363
Fri Mar-15-19 02:14 PM by Eric B Is Prez

  

          

I don't think it necessarily matters if the Democratic party is trending more moderate or more progressive. I think it's a question of whether the younger, far left wing and reluctant voters will be energized like they were for Obama. I think the centrist or moderate Democrats will vote in high numbers no matter who gets the nomination, but they're likely to be older and more reliable to show up.

So to me, the smart play is to run a more progressive candidate- ideally a woman or person of color (or both)- who will mobilize the progressive youth vote. I think if they can do that, they don't even need to waste time trying to court swing voters who are unreliable anyway. If everyone shows up I think the Democratic party has the numbers.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Fri Mar-15-19 07:50 PM

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404. "cant run a more centrist candiate than clinton, and she lost to a turnip"
In response to Reply # 363


          

This election is shaping up to be the DNC trotting out the same centrist policies behind 35 different demographically different candidates

VS.

A handful of more progressive candidates.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Mar-15-19 03:35 PM

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389. "beto is refusing to release his 24 hr fundraising numbers."
In response to Reply # 0


          

prolly not a complete brick but not as good as bernie (bernie came prepared to play ball).

his online metrics for his announcement are outpacing everyone. even bernie. by a lot too. i would think thatd translate into some dough.

his kickoff event in el paso is in 2 weeks...right before the end of the reporting quarter. im assuming theyre gonna bust their ass to hit it out of the park. then they can say they had great fundraising numbers for the quarter despite only having 2 weeks.

iono mayne. i like dude a lot. but this aint a game out here and he isnt coming off as someone who is serious about it all.



  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Fri Mar-15-19 04:10 PM

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392. "RE: beto is refusing to release his 24 hr fundraising numbers."
In response to Reply # 389


          


>
>his online metrics for his announcement are outpacing
>everyone.
>

Can you breakdown/explain what you are referring to, specifically?

Just curious...

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Mar-15-19 04:47 PM

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394. "basically his announcement video on social media platforms"
In response to Reply # 392


          

is getting more views, shares, replies at a faster rate than other candidates.

bernie still has him beat in total. but hes had about a month headstart and betos numbers are closing fast.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Fri Mar-15-19 05:18 PM

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396. "RE: basically his announcement video on social media platforms"
In response to Reply # 394


          


Interesting...thanks


Have you seen him debate? You alluded to this below with the Pete comment, but I wonder if he loses some steam if he can't take the heat so to speak.

I've never seen him debate, so I don't know. He is definitely likable when he talks/gives a speech.


The rollout was strange though. I would have bet money it would have gone better. Seems to me his social media success is *despite* his rollout.

  

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Reeq
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Fri Mar-15-19 05:44 PM

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399. "ive only seen him debate once."
In response to Reply # 396


          

and he did as well as you would expect a talented speaker to do. but he was also going up against an excruciatingly unlikeable ted cruz.

and i think the awkward rollout might have *contributed* to his 'success' on social media. the vanity fair memes, the who/what/where of folks tryna keep up with it, the reaction from supporters of other candidates (and other candidates fundraising off *his* announcement), the trump reaction, and the media tryna stay on top of it all.

this is a guy regularly polling in the mid single digits who a lot of voters dont even know. but he got the type of limelight that national figures like bernie and biden get (he only has like 1/10th the social media following of bernie).

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Fri Mar-15-19 04:24 PM

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393. "this roll out is weird to me"
In response to Reply # 389


  

          

definitely some missteps. im planning to cop some beto merchandise from his stie tonight, a presidential candidate from my city is worth it just on that lol

im also planning to donate to yang tonight. i really like what dude is pushing and i want to make sure he gets into the debates.

that will probably be it for me until i know much more about candidates and actually start backing one.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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395. "this is another thing:"
In response to Reply # 393


          

>im also planning to donate to yang tonight. i really like what
>dude is pushing and i want to make sure he gets into the
>debates.
>
>that will probably be it for me until i know much more about
>candidates and actually start backing one.

you have a lot of quality candidates with great policy ideas and some with a lot more experience behind those ideas. im not sure he can just charm his way through that.

like what is he gonna do on the same stage with mayor pete...another young relatable white dude with a sharp mind and arguably a better grasp of policies and their implementation along with executive experience to back it up?

  

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Stadiq
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Fri Mar-15-19 05:26 PM

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398. "right...and the most frustrating thing is"
In response to Reply # 395


          


That the people with the best policies/grasp of policy are not in the best position to sell them (be it lack of attention/fame like Pete or general awkwardness like Warren)


If we could just get Beto to be a Pete proxy, or Kamala to be a Warren proxy, etc...we'd be set.



  

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Reeq
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400. "i actually had an idea like that here:"
In response to Reply # 398


          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13312589&mesg_id=13312589&listing_type=search#13314549

i kinda feel that way about bernie too.

like if a young democrat ran word for word on bernies platform but wasnt a grumpy old man who called himself a socialist...the media would just cover him as a dem with an old school vibe tryna take the party back to its roots.

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Fri Mar-15-19 06:47 PM

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402. "naw, Bernie is just unapologetically authentic."
In response to Reply # 400


  

          

If Beto spoke like Sanders they would slay Beto too.

They don't want his message catching a fire, which is why they are doing their damndest to preemptively say he's not already the clear frontrunner. Tulsi gets the smear for the same reason. MSM isn't objective.

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Mar-15-19 07:28 PM

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403. "the sanders wing of the party was called the warren wing 4 years ago."
In response to Reply # 402


          

she was bernie before bernie with an actual proven track record of going after corporations, wall street, etc.

she was a progressive rockstar. she was the big gun they brought in to raise money and enthusiasm for senate candidates like dick durbin and jeff merkley (even bernie supporters thought an endorsement from her would have put him over the top).

and the media loved her. they were talking about her leading a tea party on the left and taking things over. they did more to push her as a potential challenger to hillary clinton than the party or the voters did.

so clearly its not just about the message, authenticity, etc.

  

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Mr. ManC
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Mon May-20-19 09:12 AM

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572. "actually that's not true at all. "
In response to Reply # 403


  

          

Disproven 1. by Bernie having the same message since 88 when he went into Congress through to now, and 2. Sanders was there before, during and after on that platform when Warren made it to the national scene. And 3. WHERE WAS WARREN 4 YEARS AGO? My biggest slight to her is that the best chance we had for progressive legislation was 4 years ago and she was dead silent. Had she weighed in when it mattered the entire momentum would have changed. That's her right to do, but she's an opportunist, and has basically hijacked Jill Stein's platform for which progressives for vilified for supporting just 4 years ago.

Bernie is the OG. Even Hillary got called out for acting like he wasn't even part of the universal health care fight when she was first lady. It was damn near HIS bill that SHE was cosigning. Sorry but Bernie has been the most consistent and longest tenured. Can't deny him that.

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Mar-18-19 09:34 AM

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416. "yes"
In response to Reply # 395


  

          

>like what is he gonna do on the same stage with mayor
>pete...another young relatable white dude with a sharp mind
>and arguably a better grasp of policies and their
>implementation along with executive experience to back it up?

if you are looking for someone taking a more moderate approach i dont know how you pick anyone else over pete.

im going to chill on beto for now. going to avoid stories about him for a few weeks. once he announces what he is actually running on i will check back in on him. going to focus on finding out more about the candidates im not familiar with.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Sat Mar-16-19 07:25 AM

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405. "someone said he was really campaigning for VP"
In response to Reply # 389


  

          

which I would not be opposed to. he can be the "Biden" of a Democratic ticket easily

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Mar-18-19 08:26 AM

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410. "this looked like a possibility til you see the money hes bringing in lol..."
In response to Reply # 405
Mon Mar-18-19 08:26 AM by Reeq

          

when youre generating that type of money/excitement...power brokers will make you run for the top of the ticket whether you like it or not lol.

think about how much money you will generate for congressional committees, state parties, candidates you endorse or who endorse you, etc.

  

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Jon
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Sat Mar-16-19 02:52 PM

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408. "Yang, Tulsi, or Bernie...Warren close behind...but "
In response to Reply # 0


          

While i think Bernie would've blown Trump out of the water in 2016, i don't like his chances as much now.

Warren, while i really like her, would faceplant against Trump imo...as would Kamala.

Since styles make fights, I think the 2 candidates most geared to being Trump's kryptonite are Yang and Tulsi

His third-grader games just wouldn't work against them.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Mar-18-19 08:03 AM

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409. "so beto raised $6.1 million in his first 24 hours."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-18-19 08:22 AM by Reeq

          

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1107605096597078016

thats the most of any dem so far. and he did it by the seat of his pants without an organized rollout. and hes still not really a nationally recognized figure like bernie or biden.

that number is kinda crazy...all things considered.

people are wondering why they would hold off reporting a 'win' like that. but i wouldnt be surprised if they timed it right in the middle of morning news shows on their (typically) most watched day. the alternative was most likely a mid-friday or weekend news dump...when people tend to pay attention the least.

this also gets donors/operatives revved up for his campaign right as hes hitting the rust belt in areas that trump won.

all a coincidence im sure.

  

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Marauder21
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Mon Mar-18-19 08:30 AM

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411. "I will admit I did not think he could pull something like that off"
In response to Reply # 409


  

          

Three candidates pulling in 7 figures in their first 24 hours is a good sign.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Mar-18-19 08:37 AM

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412. "i thought he could at first then i thought he didnt."
In response to Reply # 411


          

the way he refused to report it made me think he came in short.

the fact that just about every dem candidate (but tulsi gabbard lol) is killing it with the donations says a lot about the energy on the dem side.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Mar-18-19 09:40 AM

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417. "that surprised me"
In response to Reply # 409


  

          

it wouldnt had a month ago. the past week has been an avalanche of negativity for him. i guess that can also serve to rally his supporters though.

for him to beat bernie?? wow. hes not going away anytime soon. hopefully he finds his footing but it doesnt seem like the negative press is holding him back.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Mar-18-19 10:23 AM

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420. "im laughing at all of the 'i told you so' takes on twitter today."
In response to Reply # 417


          

just a few days ago he was an empty shell with overrated appeal based on vapid media coverage. and his refusal to disclose his fundraising numbers signified a doomed campaign.

today he met expectations by harnessing the same grassroots enthusiasm that apparently everyone knew he would maintain from his senate run. and everyone knew hed be a serious contender.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Mar-18-19 10:38 AM

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421. "I thought his donors was one of his strongpoints"
In response to Reply # 409


          

I like his chances but I haven’t seen him debate.

Will be interesting to see if he has that star power when on a timer vs Dems who are more progressive than he is.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Mon Mar-18-19 12:43 PM

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428. "damn..."
In response to Reply # 409


          


Like you said, I'm legit surprised by this.


I'm very curious what the Warren/Harris/Klobuchar teams are thinking. I especially feel for Warren.

  

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naame
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Mon Mar-18-19 08:47 AM

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413. "The Hell-No Caucus"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Mar-18-19 08:48 AM by naame

  

          

I don't think there will be an election and the results will definitely be fixed, but since we're in here weighing facts and information I will add this link. I will add that Gillibrand and Warren are my fav's in the Dem caucus for now. Gillibrand voted against Mattis and Kelly.

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2018/how-five-2020-contenders-voted-on-trumps-nominees/
“Sen. Gillibrand evaluates each nominee based on their record and qualifications,” spokeswoman Whitney Brennan said. “If she doesn’t think they are qualified for the job, she votes against them. If she thinks they are worthy of the job and will serve New Yorkers well, she will vote for them.” Senate Republicans have fumed since Inauguration Day over what they view as a systematic slowdown of confirmations by the Democratic Caucus, particularly when it comes to judicial picks.

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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Marauder21
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435. "Gillibrand has been getting lost in everything, but she's"
In response to Reply # 413


  

          

been pretty good since the Trump era.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Mar-18-19 09:27 AM

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415. "which candidate(s) have yall donated to?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i donated to buttigieg and beto.

i gave the larger donation to mayor pete.

i dont think he has any real shot at winning but i wanna help increase his visibility and make sure he stays around in the convo as long as possible. hopefully dems can take some messaging lessons from him.

  

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Marauder21
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419. "My wife gave a little bit to Pete, I'll do likewise"
In response to Reply # 415


  

          

on my next paycheck.

Same reason, I want him to be on stage with the frontrunners, I don't think he'll come close to winning the nomination. He'll be the first presidential candidate I've ever donated money to (normally I only give to local races.)

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Mar-18-19 10:39 AM

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422. "Whoa... it’s too early for all that. "
In response to Reply # 415


          

I’m not donating a dime until the field gets narrowed down.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Mar-18-19 10:47 AM

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423. "fundraising plays a big part in how the field narrows babybro."
In response to Reply # 422
Mon Mar-18-19 10:49 AM by Reeq

          

if nobody in particular sticks out to you...its understandable to sit on the sidelines.

but if you like a candidate and/or want one to win...you should support them (even with something small).

i only gave $20 and $30 to beto and pete. once we get into the thick on things...ima max out for whoever is left that i want to cross the finish line.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Mar-18-19 10:59 AM

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425. "at this stage i think its important to show support for the lesser known"
In response to Reply # 422


  

          

candidates. i plan to make small donations for yang and pete. i am going to look into some others and might find one or two others. i do want beto merchandise so will buy something from his site.

if there are some candidates that i really like but their biggest weakness is that people dont know who they are then i want to show some support right now so they get a chance.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Mon Mar-18-19 03:40 PM

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429. "Yep way too early"
In response to Reply # 422


  

          

Donating now is just flushing your money down the drain.

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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431. "how do you think candidates run their campaign?"
In response to Reply # 429


          

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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433. "Off big money donors"
In response to Reply # 431


  

          

not 20 and 30 dollar donors.

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Mar-19-19 11:00 AM

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437. "bernie raised ~$6 mil in 24 hours with the avg donation around $27."
In response to Reply # 433


          

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/20/bernie-sanders-2020-presidential-campaign-fundraising

just about all of the candidates so far avg in the $20s or $30s per donation.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Tue Mar-19-19 11:51 AM

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440. "Sanders, who has near-universal name recognition"
In response to Reply # 437


  

          

and one of the largest fundraising lists in US politics, is not the same as people in this thread giving 20 or 30 to someone like Pete Buttigieg.


>https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/20/bernie-sanders-2020-presidential-campaign-fundraising
>
>just about all of the candidates so far avg in the $20s or
>$30s per donation.


Yeah but none of them got 5.9 or 6.1 even with name recognition because it takes big money donors.

Obama in 08 said small donors helped him and they did but it was big donors doing the most.

Beto won’t, disclose how many individual donors contributed or what their average donation was.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/qvy58m/beto-orourke-tops-the-field-in-first-day-fund-raising-but-hes-being-vague-about-it?utm_medium=vicenewstwitter

^from the same link

"Most other candidates have been hesitant to share their fundraising numbers. Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, former Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper, and Sen. Amy Klobuchar all said they raised $1 million over the course of 48 hours. The remaining candidates have not released fundraising numbers."

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Tue Mar-19-19 11:09 AM

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438. "so far Tulsi and Bernie"
In response to Reply # 415


  

          

for his numbers, and to help get her to the debate stage

________________________________________________
R.I.P. Soulgyal <3
SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Mar-18-19 10:59 AM

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424. "donna brazile joins fox news."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/mlcalderone/status/1107661936076963841

it was only a matter of time.

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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Mon Mar-18-19 11:13 AM

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426. "doing a roundtable show w/Diamond and Silk? Fox would love that."
In response to Reply # 424


  

          

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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430. "biden: i know i get criticized by the new left."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1107078243302232064

man get this son of a bitch outta here.

is he just gonna bash lefties and millennials his entire campaign?

has he said anything negative about these fascist ass republicans?

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
1412 posts
Mon Mar-18-19 04:29 PM

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432. "dat #bidensoprogressive hashtag tho! lol im cryin"
In response to Reply # 430


          

  

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Marauder21
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434. "I'm going to be madder at Biden 2020 than I was at Hillary 2008"
In response to Reply # 430


  

          

I can already tell.

If Biden were to somehow win, guarantee we get President Tom Cotton in 2024 or something.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Tue Mar-19-19 10:15 AM

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436. "mayor pete is my fav to listen to and would be most effective as pres im..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i'm really over biden and bernie and not even sure who i'd choose between those 2

Beto is lowkey a joke to me and i was actually hoping he didn't do well...he's getting way too much media attention

but this further proves that the top 2 candidates are just too old

i can feel the air leaving kamala's campaign but not counting her out

booker might as well just donate whatever he raises to whoever else he likes the most

i'm not even bothering with tulsi bc i'm exhausted debating idealists as a pragmatist...i have zero desire to talk politics with that much naivete and blind optimism

warren won't survive although she's probably more suited for the job than a lot of the top 5...she just doesn't have the personality and in that GE scares me to death

either of the geezers are who i would bet on winning the primary but I really don't think Bernie would be a good president despite actually liking his OVERALL stances...i don't have near as much animosity as some black folks do toward him, biden or kamala.

i think bernie is going to have to overcome the black south yet again and people acting like they will fall in line without a clinton in the primary is laughable with Biden who wears obama/clinton camo literally right there lol

i like sherrod brown but part of me is glad he's passing on this shitshow

i'm really curious if the rumors of Trump being primaried will bear fruit or is just a seed of chaos lol

i'm finding it hard to root for anybody right now...i kinda just want to sleep until the field at least is ready to narrow

i might actually have to disengage until policy positions get fleshed out bc right now...gaffe god and BroFather are the ones to beat at the moment...ugh and somehow a Texas Dem aka a universal repub is making way more noise just by not being a senior citizen basically





Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Tue Mar-19-19 11:22 AM

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439. "yeah its very early but I'm afraid it will be down to "
In response to Reply # 436


          


Biden, Bernie, Beto

I don't think that's a good look for the party, frankly.

Out of the three, the only one I can see winning the general is Beto...and as you sort of laid out, that is purely based on superficial stuff.


I hope Warren and Pete pick up some steam to make it at least a little far for their policy discussions.


And I get the Kamala issues, but I'd much rather have her than Biden. At this point, it seems like she more than anyone needs to hope he doesn't run.

I'm convinced a lot of Dems/Liberals/whatever don't actually know Biden's history.

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Tue Mar-19-19 12:08 PM

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442. "Yep it might be those three"
In response to Reply # 439


  

          


>
>I'm convinced a lot of Dems/Liberals/whatever don't actually
>know Biden's history.
>
>


The young ones probably don't know about his history but the older Dems know or they are just like him, which is the same.

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Vex_id
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Tue Mar-19-19 12:01 PM

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441. "Yang has met the threshold to debate"
In response to Reply # 0


          

which is great news - we really need this to be a battle of ideas and not personality wars. Beto and Biden are personality picks at this point (neither have laid out any policy prescriptions).

Yang has been killing it with some of his innovative economic ideas (Freedom Dividends, Corporate Responsibility, Abundant distro of global gains, UBI etc..) and is a much needed voice. I really want Mayor Pete and Tulsi to get into the debates as well. Pete also has creative ideas and just phrases issues in a way that is super insightful, and Tulsi has led the charge on opening up a discussion on Foreign Policy with more depth than any other candidate in the race.

My fear is that we just get a Beto/Biden/Bernie/Kamala/Gillibrand/Klobuchar debate that will border on being overly generic with no real clarity as to what these candidates believe in/stand for/have a vision for. If it ultimately comes down to that - fine - but we need to take advantage of such a diverse primary with having as diverse of a conversation as possible so that we can speak to as many voters as possible.


-->

  

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Marauder21
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Tue Mar-19-19 12:30 PM

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443. "Warren crushed it last night"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Fuck the electoral college, an unpopular relic that should've left with the institution it was designed to protect.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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naame
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Thu Mar-21-19 08:52 AM

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444. "Laura Ingraham: Dems are playing the radicalization Olympics"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I hate my gym because they have fox news on all the time. When I go in there laura ingraham or sean hannity are usually spouting off some dumb shit, last night ingraham started her show lumping the dems together to address what she calls the "radicalization olympics." IF ONLY SOMEONE HAD FRAMED THE REPUBLICANS WITH THIS SAME BRUSH FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/laura-ingraham-dems-are-playing-the-radicalization-olympics-but-they-may-never-win-the-white-house-gold-medal
Her comments on reparations:

"But these radicalization games don't end at the court. They're also racing to buy off the black vote with the promise of reparations. No need to grapple with practical questions about this proposal, like how you determine who receives and who pays for the reparations, how much it would cost, whether Nigerians who just arrived here would get them or whether new immigrants from places like Serbia have to chip in.

Still, competing in the radicalization games is a heck of a lot easier than trying to convince voters that Democrats will put more money in your pocket, with a faster growing economy and that they're going to take on China in a better way than Trump. How would Kamala or Bernie or Elizabeth do that?"
America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Fri Apr-12-19 01:50 PM

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446. "update"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

im really cooling on andrew yang. primarily because his answer to everything sounds more and more like UBI. college is too expensive?? not if you get $1000 per month. losing your job? dont worry here is the same $1000 per month. need health insurance? $1000. youre on food stamps and tnaf? sorry gotta give it up to get $1000. maybe i should have read his website closer but im liking his ideas less.

there are some other things he seems to be against that is making me second guess him. maybe a cabinet pick but thats it.

i like pete until i see a reason not to. this clash vs pence is interesting but eh whatever. im hoping he has a bigger plan for it and lets the right back themselves into a corner with it.

beto is really inspiring. i really thought his launch speech was great, i thought he did a good job saying what he wants to do without having to have a fully blown out plan.

both pete and beto seem to be taking this approach, leaving some room to finalize plans later. im not against it but i can see why some folks would be worried about that.

i like bernie, hes old but he definitely has some urgency. if our system didnt suck it would be great to see him just implement everything he wants to. i would definitely vote for him.

i like what i know about warren, she doesnt inspire me but i would definitely vote for her.

i like harris i think she would be good, not enthusiastic about her but i can see her doing great once the debates start happening.

booker bores me.

im still so meh on biden, i hope he doesnt run. hes not at the level of dislike that hillary was but i would vote for him in the general just out of principle really. no way i want trump over any dem.

no one else has made an impact on me and i dont think i will bother digging for info on them unless they start making noise.

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri Apr-12-19 02:57 PM

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450. "whoever here described Yang as a little too tech-bro was dead on"
In response to Reply # 446


  

          

i appreciate him drawing attention to automation, and UBI, but there's nothing there that says he has any business being president.

he keeps going on about how even Milton Friedman was down with UBI, but it's a bit of a bs claim, since Friedman's version of it was basically a means to kill other social programs by simplifying the tax code.

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri Apr-12-19 02:43 PM

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447. "I'm impressed by Mayor Pete. He's completely new to me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I never even heard him speak until a couple weeks ago. He comes off tremendously sharp and genuine, and I appreciate politicians who don't spout off canned, pre-programmed replies to everything, and can have an actual conversation.

Pretty much the opposite of what I got from Eric Swallwell who seems like a decent enough guy, but two sentences in it's "You know, the american people for too long..." zzzz

I'm not really down on Biden as most in here. His age is against him tho.

I'm lukewarm on most of the field. Policy-wise I think Warren is the best of the bunch, but I worry about her ability to win.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Fri Apr-12-19 04:13 PM

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451. "pete sounds so genuine"
In response to Reply # 447


  

          

when you watch 2/3 interviews of his you do see his answers are canned but not in a bad way. he is just prepared, he knows what he wants to say and how he wants to say it. the times ive seen him have to answer something that isnt standard he does well too.

ive seen like 2/3 attempts to say something bad about him but they have been really weak. TYT tried to complain that he doesnt have specific policies and that hes trying to trick you with medicare for america and pass it off as medicare for all. i think pete has been very clear on what he wants to do with healthcare and how he sees medicare for america being a logical step to medicare for all...unless private insurance actually comes up with something better. which if they do then cool.

  

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Marauder21
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Fri Apr-12-19 02:56 PM

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448. "I could go a lot of ways depending on who drops out"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-12-19 03:04 PM by Marauder21

  

          

Person I think will make the best president and who I am supporting until I've got reason not to, even though I do have some doubts:
Warren

People I like enough but want to see and hear more from:
Boot-edge-edge
Harris
Castro
Inslee
Gillibrand (lmao, I keep forgetting she's running even though she's like the third most experienced Senator in this race and is from a huge state)
Sanders (not like I need to hear more from him after 16, but I want to see how he'll perform now that he's not some plucky little underdog candidate and actually has expectations)

Ehhh, fine, I guess:
Beto
Booker

I'll vote for them in the general, never in the primary:
Biden
Gabbard
Klobuchar

I still don't believe "Andrew Yang" is a real person and not some elaborate Reddit prank. And as funny as some of the Mike Gravel stuff has been, I'm not voting for someone who literally does not want the job.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Fri Apr-12-19 02:56 PM

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449. "How many are there now? Like 28? smh"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This is going to be entertaining at least

_______________________________________

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
16414 posts
Fri Apr-12-19 04:20 PM

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452. "its weird"
In response to Reply # 449


  

          

a month ago i didnt understand why people were complaining about so many people running. i felt the more the merrier. for some reason these last couple of weeks ive gotten frustrated when i see someone else jump in lol its just overwhelming.

i obviously have some favorites right now but im not locked in. i dislike how much negativity some of these bernie supporters (mostly tyt and their gang) are throwing at any other candidates. lets not be with this, "its ___ time". let the candidates go out there and make their case and have voters decide.

  

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Mynoriti
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453. "Cenk Uygur reminds me of a fox news personaltiy"
In response to Reply # 452


  

          

who got off on the wrong exit somewhere and wound up becoming a liberal.

doesn't matter if i'm agreeing or disagreeing with him, i can't stand that dude.

>i obviously have some favorites right now but im not locked
>in. i dislike how much negativity some of these bernie
>supporters (mostly tyt and their gang) are throwing at any
>other candidates. lets not be with this, "its ___ time". let
>the candidates go out there and make their case and have
>voters decide.

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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Fri Apr-12-19 05:12 PM

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455. "he reminds you of that, because that's exactly who he is"
In response to Reply # 453


  

          

I rocked w/TYT for a minute, but like so many news orgs they got Twitter brain, or i got smarter or something.

I don't even mind their positions so much, but like you said it's 100% in or out delivery. Like so many people out, I'd rather they educate me than scream at me.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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458. "i can guarantee you there was no bigger tyt/cenk fan on here than me."
In response to Reply # 453


          

but 2016 sent them over the edge.

theyre commentary now is so pander-y/fact free/reckless that most other people that i know who used to watch them cant even take em seriously anymore.

when keith ellison got hit with domestic abuse allegations during his minnesota ag campaign...tyt labeled it a hit job by the democratic establishment as revenge for his dnc chair run. with zero evidence. and despite the fact that the *entire* national *and* state democratic party were firmly behind ellison. i mean...they all went hard to fly him in as a last minute candidate to anoint him over other lesser-known dem candidates in the state.

i have my theories about the 'liberal' bankrollers of outlets like tyt and theintercept and how that influences their direction but thats another convo for another time.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Fri Apr-12-19 05:09 PM

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454. "The big field just helps the frontrunners."
In response to Reply # 452


          


It muddies the waters for anybody else.

I'd be shocked at this point if the nominee is anybody other than Biden or Bernie. I think it's their race to lose (though I could certainly see either one of them fucking it up).

It's a phenomenon in economics. "Overchoice." People stare at the 50 varieties of pasta sauce in the grocery store, and aren't satisfied with any of them, when they would have been much happier if there were just four.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Fri Apr-12-19 07:07 PM

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457. "Or results in a contested convention. In which everyone's preferences"
In response to Reply # 454


          



are rendered moot bc Biden likely locked in the SDs anyway, lol

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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459. "im surprised at how unfazed bidens numbers have been"
In response to Reply # 454


          

after all of the inappropriate touching accusations.

i think we are seeing a case study on just how different online vs real life is. (theres a recent nymag article on this)

like the democratic party is still over 60% white (like the country) but if you went by social media then you would think it was entirely made up of people like aoc and stacey abrams.

  

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legsdiamond
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460. "I tried to told y’all "
In response to Reply # 459


          

But I was called the grumpy old man


my opinion on politics aren’t MY politics..lol.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Reeq
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461. "i feel you. i get the same criticism on here. "
In response to Reply # 460


          

  

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Teknontheou
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463. "It's funny because I thought the Democrats wouldn't nominate another"
In response to Reply # 454


  

          

white male any time soon. I still think the Democratic establishment really wanted Kamala. But now that it's looking like Biden might get through this "Creepy Uncle Joe" thing with minimal damage, Kamala's only real hope is some surprise upset early, like Obama had in Iowa, or getting black people in the deep southern states to hold the line for her.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Apr-15-19 10:24 AM

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464. "bernie overtook biden in the latest poll"
In response to Reply # 463


  

          

bidens votes would probably be split between pete and beto if he decided not to run so still its white males lol

after the first debate we can start getting serious about narrowing this down.

  

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Reeq
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467. "oddly enough black voters in the south overwhelmingly prefer biden."
In response to Reply # 463


          

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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Fri Apr-12-19 05:15 PM

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456. "The field will thin out pretty quick. First debate/primaries will weed ..."
In response to Reply # 449


  

          

a lot of the riff raff. Right now you can basically declare your candidacy for free with a couple of tweets and a press conference.

Once the real campaigning starts the field will get smaller really quickly.

*caveat* It's 2019, so I'm probably 100% wrong. Republican primary in 2016 was a clusterfuck clown car for most of the primary season.





In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Mon Apr-15-19 12:50 PM

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465. "Trump got money...lots of it"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-reelection-bid-to-report-30-million-raised-in-first-quarter/2019/04/14/6ac89c06-5f21-11e9-bfad-36a7eb36cb60_story.html

Trump campaign said it raised $30 million last quarter, the largest haul since his election

President Trump’s reelection campaign raised more than $30 million in the first three months of the year, far outpacing each of the Democratic contenders who seek to oust him from office, the campaign said in a statement Monday.

It’s the largest quarterly haul since Trump announced that he would run for reelection, underscoring the president’s huge fundraising lead over a divided and crowded Democratic primary field.

Since January 2017, the most Trump raised in one quarter through his campaign and two joint fundraising committees was $21 million, federal campaign finance records show.

Unlike past presidents, who waited until after the midterms to raise money for their reelection campaigns, Trump began collecting contributions for his 2020 bid shortly after his election.

He is benefiting from a steady stream of donations of less than $200, the campaign said, showing the power of the president’s small-dollar donors at a time when Democratic candidates are working to build up their own fundraising bases.

And his campaign is stocking away serious cash. The campaign is set to submit its first-quarter financial data to the Federal Election Commission and will report cash on hand of $40.8 million — its largest amount in two years.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) led a growing field in the Democratic primary race in the first quarter, raising more than $18 million. Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.) raised about $12 million, and former Texas congressman Beto O’Rourke raised more than $9 million — including more than $6.1 million in the first 24 hours after announcing his bid.

Pete Buttigieg, mayor of South Bend, Ind., raised $7 million — a large haul for a newcomer to national politics. About 64 percent of his total came in donations of under $200, according to his campaign fundraising report made public Monday.

_______________________________________

  

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Reeq
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466. "dem candidates raised 3x that amount combined."
In response to Reply # 465
Mon Apr-15-19 01:27 PM by Reeq

          

i have no idea why the media completely ignores proper context and compares money going to 1 central party figure with several candidates in another party dividing the donations.

its like they constantly look for a way to frame everything as a complete positive for repubs.

ive seen other headlines saying trump fundraising killing obamas 2nd run. then later on mentioning that obama didnt really start fundraising til 2011 q2. $45+ mil in one quarter and almost $90 mil the next. far outpacing trump.

it reminds me of the media constantly running headlines about dnc poor fundraising for the midterms...but rarely (if ever) mentioning that the 2 dem congressional committees were breaking records...as were individual dem candidates across the country. blowing out their repub counterparts.

ive seen the media run stories about how the dccc policy on primaries is hurting their fundraising with progressives. meanwhile the dccc just raised their most money in a month ever lol. and this isnt even an election year.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/20/dccc-raised-116m-1228343

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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468. "All that (one figure vs many) is beside the point."
In response to Reply # 466


          

He is raising a lot more than any one major democratic challenger (Bernie + Kamala= Trump according to these numbers).

The fact that the sum of all democratic candidate fundraising exceeds Trump' seems unimportant unless they are going to all pool resources, which they aren't.




_______________________________________

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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469. "its not beside the point. it is the point."
In response to Reply # 468


          

democratic voters are funneling money to a divided field of candidates. republican voters are funneling money to one.

trump also has the entire party apparatus behind him. dem candidates only have their individual campaign operations.

yet and still...overall democratic voters have donated multiples more than trump/repub voters have for the quarter.

to put more context to it...several of the candidates havent even been fundraising the whole quarter like trump.

the fundraising energy is clearly still on the dem side.

its pointless to compare an incumbent or presumptive nominee of one party to a cherrypicked subset of candidates who only represent a fractional section of their party.

nobody compared barack fundraising to rick santorum and/or newt gingrich lol. see how silly that sounds?

im all for the alarmism since its great for riling up donors and boosting fundraising. but its intellectually dishonest and historically inconsistent on the part of the media.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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470. "It just depends on what point you're trying to make"
In response to Reply # 469


          

So I guess it is besides MY point lol. I'm not trying to say that dems overall are slacking or lacking energy because look at Trump's money.

I'm strictly looking at the resources available to deploy in campaigning.
If you have you have 100 candidates raising $1 million each on one side and one candidate raising $85 million on the other side, who is in a better strategic position?

The fact that there are so many candidates splitting money from a finite pool of democratic donor resources could be problematic. It's not that bad when it's 3 or 4 major candidates splitting the pool. But it looks like there are 7-10 people who could be called major candidates at this point and they are splitting the money fairly evenly.

_______________________________________

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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471. "its really not that big of a deal."
In response to Reply # 470


          

non-primaried incumbents (in every election at any level) technically have an advantage because the entire party machine is already behind them and they stockpile money for the general while primary candidates on the other side spend money battling it out. somehow incumbents still lose tho. feel me?

primary candidates fight it out...the party unifies behind a single candidate...then the consolidated fundraising and organizing tends to even the playing field for the general.

a lot of people dont even know who to give money to in a divided primary and remain undecided til later or into the general.

major donors havent even really gotten behind a single candidate yet. that will happen once the field wittles down (and especially after the primary).

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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477. "But they aren’t competing against Trump yet"
In response to Reply # 470


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Apr-15-19 02:39 PM

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472. "how much is it from PACs??"
In response to Reply # 465


  

          

in the end money is money but there are many ways to look at this.

the amount of money dems are raising right now from small donations is really encouraging.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Apr-15-19 10:22 PM

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474. "Money really IS money, though."
In response to Reply # 472


          

I mean it's nice to be getting money from actual voters. It leaves them with skin in the game and supposedly (I don't know if there's any hard evidence of this) makes them more likely to show up to vote.

But still, the number of donors is a tiny fraction of the necessary number of voters, especially for a general election. So we shouldn't pretend it's all that predictive. It certainly wasn't for Bernie.

And at the same time, there's a limited amount of money you can raise in small dollar donations. We haven't seen an example yet of someone raising the billions needed for general elections just from small dollar donations.

I fear the party might have shot itself in the foot by turning against PACs, and even SuperPACs. Sure they're not how the system should work. But until the law is changed, we're ceding a key element of the campaign over an irrelevant moral high ground.

  

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bignick
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Mon Apr-15-19 06:03 PM

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473. "Bernie's the most popular, leads the polls and raises the most $"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Plus, he just went on Fox and this happened.

https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status/1117924880949944328

He's the guy and you should be beyond excited.

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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476. "he SLAYED that fox shit... "
In response to Reply # 473


  

          

...i dont get how people dont support him ...but they will


< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Wed Apr-17-19 05:23 PM

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479. "i saw pt 1 and it was great"
In response to Reply # 476


  

          

definitely made me question why i would pick anyone else above him. i will definitely watch pt 2 tonight.

it got me thinking about M4A more.

i wasnt able to find an answer with a quick google but if anyone can answer this i would appreciate it.

his example of a family of 4 paying $28,000/yr made sense. i wish fox would had let him finish explaining it but i think he did pretty good and honestly im sure cnn would had sucked as much in asking that question. his premise is that they would actually pay less than $28,000/yr on healthcare costs with M4A. i would have liked for him to give an idea of how much less.

what i am doubting is what about people that are not paying for insurance right now, are they going to be forced to pay increased taxes? is coverage optional? what about people that do get a decent price on premiums. sure the potential deductible costs would balance out but if they dont actually use the insurance their monthly cost will go up with M4A right?? i think i was paying $150/mo with my job, at worst it was $300/mo. this is for one person. the info i did find was that people would pay 10% of their income. im definitely making more than $30,000/yr so my cost would go up if i dont use it but am forced to get it right? the flip side of course is that i am covered and there wont be surprise deductible costs if i actually need the insurance.

to be clear i dont think this needs to be the focus of the conversation or necessarily a reason to not go with M4A but we do need more details. i think the media will frame it as if middle class taxes will go up to pay for M4A but i doubt that is true. i think the ones that might actually feel the pain will be people below middle class but above the poverty line. especially single folks. UNLESS they are clear about how that wont be the case.

definitely the bulk of the cost will be covered by the extremely wealthy and efficiencies. that doesnt mean that some folks without money to spare wont feel some pain. right?

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
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Wed Apr-17-19 03:37 PM

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475. "I'm convinced that Pete Buttigieg will be on the ticket"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Apr-17-19 03:38 PM by walihorse

  

          

Ideally with either Warren or Sanders.

He will either be the candidate or the VP. I'm putting all my support for him

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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double 0
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478. "RE: I'm convinced that Pete Buttigieg will be on the ticket"
In response to Reply # 475


          

Im surprised most people aren’t just lining up behind him yet... crazy smart, real experience leading a city, veteran, LGBTQ and young enough to know he doesnt know everything.

Double 0
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walihorse
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481. "Every single interview he's done just adds to my support"
In response to Reply # 478


  

          

I liking him the most right now out of all the candidates.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Wed Apr-17-19 05:30 PM

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480. "it seems all candidates are pledging to add diversity in the VP pick"
In response to Reply # 475


  

          

if a white guy gets the nomination he will be under pressure to not have another white male as his VP pick. will pete being gay be enough diversity for the folks demanding diversity????

i actually would love to see a sanders/pete ticket.

im moving back towards sanders being my hands down choice but i definitely love what pete is doing. beto is not out of the question for me either. i think the more i see of harris the more im going to like, same for warren.

i am hoping that there is some coordination with this as things start to narrow. that the remaining candidates think about what the best combination of them would have the best chance of getting into the white house and align with each other to do so.

they asked bernie something about the DNC changes and it potentially creating chaos if no one candidates gets over 50%. i think they need to avoid that or have something in place to remedy that if they dont already. i need to look into that.

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
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Mon Apr-22-19 11:42 AM

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482. "I hope that doesn't throw the baby with the bath water"
In response to Reply # 480


  

          

Its going to be difficult finding that balance. At this point its about the best ticket to beat Trump. Diversity is second to me right now.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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Brew
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Mon Apr-22-19 11:47 AM

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483. "Liz Warren is quickly emerging as my early favorite."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-22-19 11:48 AM by Brew

          

I've always been impressed by her resume and positions on different issues (big banks foremost among them) but she has recently truly been firing on all cylinders; i.e. calling for impeachment over the weekend as well as her new push for allocating funds to forgive tons of student loan debt ... a position further bolstered by this:

https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/1120305924328120320?s=21

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Mon Apr-22-19 11:56 AM

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484. "yup! she's been kicking ass the past week!!!"
In response to Reply # 483


  

          

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Apr-22-19 11:59 AM

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485. "policy and action wise shes up there with bernie"
In response to Reply # 483


  

          

it will be interesting to see how they differentiate from each other.

shes the next one im going to do a deep dive for. i had to give it some time for all the bias for her too cool off and give her an honest look.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Apr-22-19 04:22 PM

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492. "Had she been able to reduce college cost in her state? "
In response to Reply # 483


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Mon Apr-22-19 05:05 PM

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493. "Well, nobody's gonna actually be able to DO what they promise."
In response to Reply # 492


          


What matters to people is that the empty promises are the RIGHT empty promises.

(I'm actually not entirely joking here. Warren has always been my favorite candidate. But I've never pretended that any of her promises were serious. Candidates have to play to a vast misapprehension among the public that legislation happens in this country. It doesn't anymore, and not for the foreseeable future.)

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Apr-22-19 05:40 PM

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495. "Haha.. true"
In response to Reply # 493


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Bluebear
Member since Apr 06th 2003
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Wed Apr-24-19 11:11 AM

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504. "Was she governor? seems like an executive action thing"
In response to Reply # 492


  

          

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Wed Apr-24-19 11:42 AM

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505. "yeah that's a strange bar to set for a US Senator"
In response to Reply # 504


          


scratching my head

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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Mon Apr-22-19 12:16 PM

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486. "Pete Buttigieg Fired South Bend's Black Police Chief. It Still Stings ....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Pass on Buttigieg


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/438669-secret-tapes-linger-over-buttigiegs-meteoric-rise


Pete Buttigieg meteoric rise as a presidential candidate is putting a spotlight on his years as mayor of South Bend, Ind., including his demotion of an African-American police chief.

An Indiana judge will rule soon on whether to release five cassette tapes of secretly recorded conversations between South Bend police officers that led to the 2012 demotion of Police Chief Darryl Boykins, the city’s first ever black police chief.



The South Bend City Council subpoenaed Buttigieg to win release of the tapes, which were at the center of a police department shake-up and a series of lawsuits.

Buttigieg’s critics say he’s gone to great lengths to conceal the contents of the tapes, which some believe could include racist language by white police officers.

There is roiling anger in South Bend over the allegations of racism. Black leaders in the city say that if there is evidence of racism, it could call into question scores of convictions that stemmed from white police officers investigating black suspects in a city that is 25 percent black.

Members of the Rev. Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow PUSH coalition met with Buttigieg in 2014 and urged him to ask for a federal investigation into allegations of police misconduct.

“There’s a level of frustration,” said Karen White, a city councilwoman and Democrat who is black. “We want this issue to be brought to closure to ensure this issue does not polarize our community further. We have a right to know , as do our citizens.”

Buttigieg’s defenders say he’s not trying to conceal the tapes, but rather is seeking to ensure that releasing the recordings does not run afoul of federal or state wiretapping laws. No one in the mayor’s office has listened to the recordings, sources say.

The mayor’s allies say he was put in a tough spot, eager to discover whether the allegations of racism are true but not wanting to expose the city to further legal action if a judge ruled the tapes violated federal and state recording laws.

“The mayor’s stance from day one has been that he won’t do anything unless it’s cleared by a court of law,” said a Buttigieg ally. “These are serious matters. Serious allegations. His oath and his job every day is to follow the law, so that’s what he’s doing. Whatever the court decides, whether the tapes are to be released or destroyed, he’ll do that.”

The matter currently sits with St. Joseph County Superior Court Judge Steve Hostetler, who could rule on a summary judgement within weeks, although further appeals are expected.

The issue has potential ramifications in the Democratic primary. Buttigieg, 37, a Harvard graduate, Rhodes scholar and military veteran, officially launched his presidential campaign from a former Studebaker factory in South Bend on Sunday, saying his policies had revitalized the once-dying Midwest town.

African-American voters will be a force in the primary, where 18 Democrats and counting are battling to be heard. If the judge rules that the tapes should be released, their contents will immediately become a national story.

The Hill dug through court documents and interviewed more than a dozen people to look at the roots of the story, which began in early 2011, before Buttigieg had been elected mayor. The mayor's office and South Bend Police Department declined to comment.

Secret recordings

In 2011, Karen DePaepe, a 25-year veteran of the South Bend Police Department in charge of the dispatch and communications center, informed Boykins that the desk phone line for Detective Bryan Young was being taped.

A previous police chief had authorized taping the phone line because the detective at the time didn’t want to miss any possible tips. Boykins allowed the taping, now on Young’s phone line, to continue but did not inform the detective that his calls were being recorded.

About a year later, shortly after Buttigieg had been elected to his first term in office at the age of 29, DePaepe discovered recordings on the line that she said revealed racist remarks and a potential criminal conspiracy between officers.

DePaepe took the allegations to Boykins, who confronted the officers.

The officers, upset over the secret recordings, went to the FBI and Department of Justice to ask for an investigation. They contended the recordings were illegal, and their complaints prompted U.S. Attorney David Capp to open an investigation.

Buttigieg steps in

Buttigieg only learned of the investigation into the recordings in early 2012 when the FBI alerted him to the probe.

Buttigieg’s allies say he was frustrated that Boykins did not tell him about the existence of the investigation. The mayor was alarmed by allegations the officers had been improperly recorded.

Though he had initially asked Boykins to remain on as police chief after his mayoral win, Buttigieg, upon learning of the investigation, asked him to resign.

Boykins complied, but a day later, after consulting with legal counsel and hearing from supporters in the community, he reversed course and asked to be reinstated.

In an interview with The Hill, Boykins’s attorney, Tom Dixon, accused the mayor’s office of misleading his client and trying to scare him into leaving. In a court filing, Boykins said he had stepped down under “the false pretense that the Mayor was being directed into this course of action by the U.S. Attorney’s office.”

Buttigieg relented to a degree, removing Boykins as police chief but keeping him on the force with a demotion to captain.

The mayor also fired DePaepe, believing she had intentionally eavesdropped on the officers to dig up dirt on them. DePaepe disputed that characterization, saying in a court filing that she had “inadvertently stumbled upon conversations” between officers.

Lawsuits

The firing and demotion led to a string of lawsuits.

Boykins sued the city for racial discrimination, arguing that the taping policy existed under previous police chiefs, who were white.

In a court filing, Boykins argued that Buttigieg had used the taping scandal as an excuse to get rid of him. Boykins said that since Buttigieg had been elected, the top three ranking African-American officials in the city had retired, been forced out or demoted. The men who replaced them, Boykins said, were white.

“The Mayor seized the ‘tape scandal’ to make a clean sweep of the heretofore African American leadership in South Bend,” Boykins’s tort claim says.

DePaepe sued for wrongful termination, claiming the recordings under wraps contained “racially derogatory statements relating to other ranking officers” and a plot to convince the new mayor to oust Boykins.

A third lawsuit was filed by a group of four police officers and one officer’s wife, who said they had been illegally recorded and defamed.

The city settled with everyone. Boykins received $75,000, DePaepe got $235,000 and the group of officers received $500,000.

At the time, Buttigieg justified the settlements by saying that going to court would have been more expensive for the city’s taxpayers.

“Even though I’m confident our administration did the right thing, there is still a big cost, financially and in terms of energy and attention, to defending and winning these claims in court,” he said. “Each passing day these cases were lingering was bad for the city, and a chance to reach an agreement and resolve them was in the best interest of the city.”

The U.S. attorney closed the book on the case, saying there was no evidence a crime had been committed in recording the officers.

Suing for the tapes

The City Council and local activists were alarmed by the allegations of racism and corruption within the police department.

Former City Council member Henry Davis Jr., a Democrat, asked for a federal investigation in a 2012 letter to Tom Perez, who at the time was the assistant attorney general for the Civil Rights Division at the Justice Department.

“There is a high level of discontent brewing,” Davis wrote. “This letter is a plea to the Justice Department for immediate intervention for the protection and safety of our residents and police officers in South Bend.”

The police officers are suing Davis for defamation. Dan Pfeiffer, an attorney for the police officers, told The Hill there is nothing criminal on the recordings. Pfeiffer accused Boykins of using the tapes as blackmail to threaten his political rivals, some of whom were angling for the police chief job in the new administration.

The City Council issued a subpoena for the tapes. An attorney for the council members argued that there is no expectation of privacy inside a police station and that officers are told as part of their training that they should expect their phone lines are being recorded.

The mayor challenged the subpoena in federal court, arguing that a judge should decide whether it’s legal for anyone to listen to the recordings.

The fight over the tapes has been winding through the courts ever since.

The controversy has hung over Buttigieg’s two terms in office, but his approval rating in South Bend is sky-high. South Bend is about 55 percent Democratic. Buttigieg won reelection to a second term with more than 80 percent of the vote.

Buttigieg’s backers say he’s made strides in repairing the racial divide.

“This happened very early on in his administration and the mayor has since spent a lot of quantity time with communities of color to build trust,” said the Buttigieg ally. “It was really hard, especially happening so early on in his time in office. But he’s been able to build deeper relationships because of it.”

But some think Buttigieg mishandled the situation, particularly with Boykins, who is well-regarded within the community.

“I personally felt it could have been handled differently with Chief Boykins,” said White, who is excited to see Buttigieg get into the presidential race but isn’t endorsing a candidate at this point. “There was a perception within the community that Boykins … was painted to be someone that was not in line with his character.”


Another link on the same story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/us/politics/buttigieg-black-police-chief-fired.html



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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Mon Apr-22-19 01:18 PM

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487. "It’s Indiana. Of course they said racist shit. "
In response to Reply # 486


          

What did Pete say on those tapes?

I always hesitate when it comes to gg white men because they have a history of being racist as shit while hiding behind that “oppression” flag

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
5186 posts
Mon Apr-22-19 01:30 PM

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489. "Mayor Pete is hiding behind the law"
In response to Reply # 487


  

          

said he never listened to the tapes.

"Mr. Buttigieg has refused to release them, saying the matter is still being resolved in court."

Federal and state wiretapping laws, he said, prohibit him from releasing the tapes.

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Marauder21
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Mon Apr-22-19 01:21 PM

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488. "I've been liking him less the more he talks"
In response to Reply # 486


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Apr-22-19 01:30 PM

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490. "Same."
In response to Reply # 488


          

----------------------------------------

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Apr-24-19 09:22 AM

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499. "this is sus but it hasn't turned me off completely"
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Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Mon May-20-19 08:50 AM

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570. "he's also supported reparations plainly and publicly"
In response to Reply # 486


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Marauder21
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Mon Apr-22-19 04:14 PM

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491. "Biden's got an event on Wednesday in CHARLOTTESVILLE"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

where he's expected to officially announce.

5 bucks says he accidentally praises "both sides" of the Unite the Right rally.

https://twitter.com/abedelman/status/1120352544692342784
Biden to announce presidential run Wednesday in Charlottesville, Va., the site of a clash in August 2017 between white supremacists and counterprotesters that claimed one life, @PittsburghPG reports --> https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-local/2019/04/22/Joe-Biden-plans-Pittsburgh-rally-presidential-announcement-candidacy-Democrat/stories/201904220086 … via @PittsburghPG

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Mon Apr-22-19 05:32 PM

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494. "RE: Biden's got an event on Wednesday in CHARLOTTESVILLE"
In response to Reply # 491


          


https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/03/everybodys-chum

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Apr-23-19 10:44 AM

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497. "Damn. I kinda hate Biden now."
In response to Reply # 494


          

I always knew he was mega-flawed. But this article lays out nicely just how awful a human he actually is. Christ almighty.

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Tue Apr-23-19 11:35 AM

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498. "I honestly think a lot of people don't know Biden"
In response to Reply # 497


          


I think he benefits A LOT from the Obama connection. People hear his name and think "Oh, Obama's VP/buddy/whatever? Yeah, I like him"

Even putting the creepy stuff and gaffs aside, I think the more people learn about him the less appealing he will look. There is a lot to NOT like, and relatively little to actually get excited about.

My worry is that he will still win the nom though, and then proceed to lose the general in Hillary 2.0 fashion.

I don't think "elect-ability" is even a good argument for him. Trump against an old, white, unprofessional, Washington insider with an inconsistent record (at best) who is preaching unity? And Trump can say "the economy was worse under you and Obama" and shit like "why didn't you fix it when you guys were in power?"? Sprinkle in his creepiness and the Anita Hill stuff, etc? Nah.


I agree with you about Warren- I've liked her more and more lately. I wish her campaign had gotten off to a better start, though. I hope she lasts long enough for more people to hear her policy proposals.


  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Apr-24-19 10:08 AM

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503. "He definitely benefits from the Obama connection."
In response to Reply # 498


          

>I think he benefits A LOT from the Obama connection. People
>hear his name and think "Oh, Obama's VP/buddy/whatever? Yeah,
>I like him"
>
>Even putting the creepy stuff and gaffs aside, I think the
>more people learn about him the less appealing he will look.
>There is a lot to NOT like, and relatively little to actually
>get excited about.

Yea in the context of being progressive he just doesn't really seem to check off any boxes at all, the more I learn about him the last couple of years.


>My worry is that he will still win the nom though, and then
>proceed to lose the general in Hillary 2.0 fashion.

I don't think he'd lose like that, because (a) America's woman problem had a lot to do with the low turnout for Hillary and (b) I think Joe has the type of personality and smarts to outwit Individual 1. Hillary lacked the capability to be human in the moments when Individual 1 was just throwing sarcasm against the wall to get a reaction out of the crowd. I think Joe will be better at countering that.

Not saying that this is what I *want* to happen - just saying, if Joe won the dem nod I don't think he'd have as much trouble with Individual 1 as Hillary did.


>I don't think "elect-ability" is even a good argument for him.
> Trump against an old, white, unprofessional, Washington
>insider with an inconsistent record (at best) who is preaching
>unity? And Trump can say "the economy was worse under you and
>Obama" and shit like "why didn't you fix it when you guys were
>in power?"? Sprinkle in his creepiness and the Anita Hill
>stuff, etc? Nah.

I don't even like the term "elect-ability" - it's been overused in the Individual 1-era and I think it's especially been overused in the last couple weeks w/people trying to talk themselves out of the need to explore impeachment. Folks are more concerned w/poll #s and political convenience going into 2020 than they are w/protecting democracy and the people of the US from the several ongoing security threats we currently face due to Individual 1's corruption and incompetence.


>I agree with you about Warren- I've liked her more and more
>lately. I wish her campaign had gotten off to a better start,
>though. I hope she lasts long enough for more people to hear
>her policy proposals.

Yes that was a huge mistake but I think that she's quickly making people forget about it. I know it's not something she'd be able to avoid during a deep prez run but I actually think it's a *good* thing that it happened before she even declared because people have short memories these days. It'll come up again but hopefully by then folks will basically be like "yea, we know, and have known" haha.

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Mon Apr-22-19 06:47 PM

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496. "dude's whole career outside of obama has been racist AF"
In response to Reply # 491
Mon Apr-22-19 06:47 PM by kayru99

          

he fucking WROTE the Crime Bill of 94.
he's a racist. Always been one.

  

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Marauder21
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500. "The Charlottesville thing was cancelled, now I guess it's"
In response to Reply # 496
Wed Apr-24-19 09:47 AM by Marauder21

  

          

a video announcement, followed by a fundraiser with the VP of Comcast.

Bidenmania's runnin wild!

And yes, his career in the Senate should give people a lot of pause.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Wed Apr-24-19 10:00 AM

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501. "Which is why he has a real good shot to win "
In response to Reply # 496


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Wed Apr-24-19 01:30 PM

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507. "him calling Obama 'clean' will forever check him in a box"
In response to Reply # 491


  

          

that box over there

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Apr-24-19 10:08 AM

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502. "Warren*/Sanders 2020"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I was really impressed with Warren’s town hall

She’s put specifics behind the ideas Bern presented in 16

Bern still out here giving 5 year old stump speeches

* I still need her to acknowledge the effect her claiming to be native had on potential qualified minority hires

---------------------------------------------------------------

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Apr-24-19 12:44 PM

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506. "I thought it's been shown that there is no evidence that she ever took "
In response to Reply # 502


  

          

a spot from a qualified minority hire?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Vex_id
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Wed Apr-24-19 01:30 PM

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508. "I'd love to see Warren in a cabinet position."
In response to Reply # 502


          

She's at her absolute best when crafting financial regulatory framework. Would be great to see her empowered to really implement meaningful banking regulation.

-->

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Thu May-02-19 09:07 AM

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509. "And another one. Michael Bennet, Colorado senator"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-02-19 09:08 AM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

They might need a third and fourth debate stage

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/02/712486850/colorado-sen-michael-bennet-launches-2020-white-house-bid-after-cancer-battle

_______________________________________

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Thu May-02-19 09:18 AM

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510. "May as well delete this thread no joke."
In response to Reply # 0


          

2020 will be a sham election if we even get that far/*have* an election. By not doing literally *anything* to address the high crimes committed by Individual 1, nor the cover-up perpetuated by his defense attorney Barr, the Dems are openly welcoming Russian interference in 2020, effectively joining the repugs in their efforts to solicit that help.

We fucked. Pretty much have a dictatorship now.

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Thu May-02-19 11:00 AM

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511. "not only that, but they want to work with him"
In response to Reply # 510
Thu May-02-19 11:01 AM by Stadiq

          

on an infrastructure plan and give him a huge win right before the election.

This is **while** he is basically refusing to play ball with the house on any investigations, still pursuing his wall, proposing to slash foreign aid, trying to place straight up on cronies with the Fed, etc.

My point being, Dems could easily say "We'll work with individual 1 on investing in much needed updates to our infrastructure once he comes to the table on other issues" or whatever. Could even throw in a jab about his tax plan "we'll work with him on infrastructure once he comes to the table on making some adjustments to the tax code so that we can afford it" or some shit.

Nope. They desperately want to believe, even now, that the other side operates in good faith. Still.

And even if there is some other long game (I doubt it), the timing is terrible.

If I'm average Joe 'Murikkka, I'm asking myself "if they are so confident Trump is guilty/terrible/obstructed justice, why don't they impeach? Not only that, but they are having cutesie meetings and sharing tic tacs?"

Fucking Dems.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Thu May-02-19 11:44 AM

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512. "Pretty much all this. Plus the ACA dismantling."
In response to Reply # 511


          

Which they took a step further yesterday. The "good faith" line nails it, it's never been more true. Repugs have never operated in good faith, at least their modern iteration ... but Individual 1's admin/mob is taking it a step further and all but setting fire to the fucking constitution and American values. And Dem (leaders, at least) are all "well, maybe if we reach across the aisle ... !"

Fucking *worthless*, the lot of them. They are complicit in all that's taken place and all that will undoubtedly take place going forward. I'm more disgusted every minute.


>on an infrastructure plan and give him a huge win right
>before the election.
>
>This is **while** he is basically refusing to play ball with
>the house on any investigations, still pursuing his wall,
>proposing to slash foreign aid, trying to place straight up on
>cronies with the Fed, etc.
>
>My point being, Dems could easily say "We'll work with
>individual 1 on investing in much needed updates to our
>infrastructure once he comes to the table on other issues" or
>whatever. Could even throw in a jab about his tax plan "we'll
>work with him on infrastructure once he comes to the table on
>making some adjustments to the tax code so that we can afford
>it" or some shit.
>
>Nope. They desperately want to believe, even now, that the
>other side operates in good faith. Still.
>
>And even if there is some other long game (I doubt it), the
>timing is terrible.
>
>If I'm average Joe 'Murikkka, I'm asking myself "if they are
>so confident Trump is guilty/terrible/obstructed justice, why
>don't they impeach? Not only that, but they are having
>cutesie meetings and sharing tic tacs?"
>
>Fucking Dems.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Creole
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Thu May-02-19 11:53 AM

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513. "So much that participating in the process seems damned near pointless..."
In response to Reply # 512


  

          

>I'm more disgusted every minute.

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu May-02-19 01:20 PM

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516. "For damn sure."
In response to Reply # 513


          

I've considered deleting Twitter and disengaging so so so many times. Near daily. But then I'm like, giving up/indifference is exactly how these evil serpents keep their racist dreams alive and thriving. Even though it doesn't seem like it sometimes because of how often they win, these people really are just a very, very, very loud and vocal minority. The majority of folks are semi-decent people.

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Thu May-02-19 12:15 PM

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514. "Agreed. And his defense attorney"
In response to Reply # 512


          


told Dems today "Fuck you"...and they ate chicken.

LOL They are completely hopeless.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu May-02-19 12:50 PM

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515. "This sounds like horrible strategy."
In response to Reply # 511


          

For one thing, don't worry about him getting a "win" on infrastructure. You know better than to think that a bill as big as infrastructure could get through even the GOP caucus alone. It's not gonna happen. Those meetings are just the usual game of chicken that gets played on popular but difficult bills. And THAT'S a game that Trump consistently loses.

But this:

>My point being, Dems could easily say "We'll work with
>individual 1 on investing in much needed updates to our
>infrastructure once he comes to the table on other issues" or
>whatever. Could even throw in a jab about his tax plan "we'll
>work with him on infrastructure once he comes to the table on
>making some adjustments to the tax code so that we can afford
>it" or some shit.

Both of these strategies turn the Democrats into the party that's opposing "bread and butter issues that everyone agrees upon" in favor of their own partisan priorities.

Impeachment is still the right thing to do, but this fervor for it will fuck us in the ass, politically.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Thu May-02-19 01:22 PM

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517. "Which differs from the ass-fucking we're currently experiencing ..."
In response to Reply # 515
Thu May-02-19 01:23 PM by Brew

          

>Both of these strategies turn the Democrats into the party
>that's opposing "bread and butter issues that everyone agrees
>upon" in favor of their own partisan priorities.
>
>Impeachment is still the right thing to do, but this fervor
>for it will fuck us in the ass, politically.

... how exactly ?

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Thu May-02-19 01:35 PM

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519. "right"
In response to Reply # 517
Thu May-02-19 01:37 PM by Stadiq

          

I'm also not sure how (in theory, assuming the following happens) Trumpito getting embarrassed on an infrastructure plan will outweigh Dems looking like insecure school boys on the President and his AG obstructing justice.

Hell, even I'm starting to doubt weather Dems care about Trump and Barr's obstruction. Or believe it.

This plan to express disappointment, eat chicken, and tell voters to "connect the dots" ...and then work with him on big parts of his agenda?

Think about everything the GOP has done from '16 till now. Hell from '10 till now.

Dems shouldn't be partisan? Even with an historically unpopular president who has obstructed justice?

Jesus, when are Dems allowed to be "partisan"?

** This is where I also note that last week a major key to Dems beating Trump was to attack him. He was/is historically unpopular, and the reason Dems took back the house. Trump was so awful/toxic, that any Pres candidate NOT actively attacking him was/is wrong. But now, the argument is "well, we can't be too partisan with him"... Moving target my man. Moving target.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Thu May-02-19 01:43 PM

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521. "Pelosi said impeachment is a "waste of time" unless you get ..."
In response to Reply # 519
Thu May-02-19 02:00 PM by Brew

          

... bipartisan support. It's like she hasn't been in politics the last 20+ years. When has a Dem initiative EVER had bipartisan support without some bullshit repug concession being made ? YOU'RE NOT GONNA FUCKING GET THAT NANCY. Repugs have latched themselves to this piece of shit and not a single one of them is ditching their cash cow now. They're either riding the wave to complete domination and dictatorship or they're going down with the ship.

Impeachment isn't about guaranteeing the outcome. It's about fucking living up to your duties and exposing ALL the crimes and coverups and lies in a public forum. That's the only way here. These are unprecedented times.

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu May-02-19 02:19 PM

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522. "When we ran an election on health care and Trump's lawlessness,"
In response to Reply # 517


          


we won a historic number of races.

If we run an election on the impeachment charges that we were somehow unable to get the senate to even take up, we will lose.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Thu May-02-19 03:00 PM

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525. "The House was historic. Didn't win the Senate."
In response to Reply # 522


          

>we won a historic number of races.
>
>If we run an election on the impeachment charges that we were
>somehow unable to get the senate to even take up, we will
>lose.

So it wasn't this incredible blue wave it's been made out to be.

Also you can't be sure that the Impeachment proceedings wouldn't be effective.

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Thu May-02-19 01:24 PM

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518. "like I said the timing is awful imo"
In response to Reply # 515


          


Even if it is a "long game" of chicken, the timing is terrible man.

Nancy is sharing tic tacs with Mr Obstruction? Oh and leaving it up to the "committees"? Cmon.


Its also funny/frustrating that the GOP does shit like what I said all the time and come out on top.

In fact, the GOP stonewalling Obama is often cited whenever even a slight criticism of Obama is brought up. He's basically immune to any accountability for a lot of Democrats.

But when someone suggests the Dems fight like the GOP, its a "terrible strategy" and partisan.

A terrible strategy that consistently works for the other side? A terrible strategy that stopped Obama's agenda in its tracks?

I know- "Dems can't/shouldn't act like the GOP"

That's kind of my point, though. Dem leaders and some voters want to keep pretending that there is some form of normalcy going on. There really isn't.

So the Dems keep acting like everything is normal, and a lot of people get fucked. And they look silly.

And if Trump really is as awful as we all say (including Dems in their hearings), why this urge to work with him on "common ground"? How do the Dems have "common ground" with this guy?

And maybe it is a long-game of chicken where the Dems are going to be able to say "see, we even tried to work with him and the GOP voted against their own Pres" or whatever...fucking wait Chuck and Nancy. Wait at least a month or so and shine more light on the fact that individual 1 is basically refusing to cooperate with congress, and ordering others not to cooperate.

Shine light on Trump trying to dismantle Obamacare in the courts. Etc.


And to your impeachment point, I (unsurprisingly to you, I'm sure) blame the Dem leaders. Either impeach or don't.

Either hold Barr in contempt, or stop investigating.

Either make every meeting/press even about Trump/Barr, or move the fuck on.


This trying to half-way investigate Trump, but with no real plan to hold him accountable is muddling the message and will ultimately piss off everyone.

So, if the Dems are going to impeach...do it.


If not, stop the charade because all it is doing is making them look indecisive and like they are just holding hearings/investigations to ... well harass and put on a show. Which is exactly what they are being accused of. Make it count or stop.

I know, impeachment takes time. Okay. Then stop giving him white house photo ops and cute stories about sharing tic tacs.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Thu May-02-19 01:38 PM

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520. "Well see I don't think it's a charade, I think they're trying to put ..."
In response to Reply # 518
Thu May-02-19 01:40 PM by Brew

          

... together the best case possible. Plus, the crimes are constant and ongoing so it's kinda hard to keep up. The problem is that Barr dismantled the SCO early so now time is of the essence to start laying these crimes out systematically, while continuing to investigate the ongoing crimes. It's not gonna be (nor has it been) easy but it has to be done. So I don't think it's a charade, it's moreso that I don't think they have the sense of urgency that is so clearly needed in this particular situation. Somehow the rest of the intelligent world understands how dangerous this "administration" is to the country and the world, but Dem leaders somehow have this false, outdated sense that this is just "how things get done in Washington" but these aren't just your regular tug of wars w/repugs.

Because while Dems continue to eat chicken and wag their fingers, Individual 1 and repugs continue to literally ruin the entire world and set the constitution on fire.

Which is to say that I agree with everything else you're saying. There is no time to play around. Impeachment proceedings need to begin *immediately* so the Individual 1 Mob knows the games are over. And maybe we can stop the fucking bleeding.

Because as you touched on, these are unprecedented times. These are not your normal Reagan/GHWB/GWB/Cheney Repugnantcans who had at least a *tiny* semblance of duty-to-country and honor. These are the Individual 1 Repugs who threw all normalcy and integrity out the fucking window the millisecond they attached themselves to this traitor.

We can't wait around any longer.

But, because Dem leaders are spineless, they're going to. And we're all going to fucking suffer for it. For a fucking LONG time.

It's reprehensible. And that's not even CLOSE to a strong enough word.


>Even if it is a "long game" of chicken, the timing is terrible
>man.
>
>Nancy is sharing tic tacs with Mr Obstruction? Oh and leaving
>it up to the "committees"? Cmon.
>
>
>Its also funny/frustrating that the GOP does shit like what I
>said all the time and come out on top.
>
>In fact, the GOP stonewalling Obama is often cited whenever
>even a slight criticism of Obama is brought up. He's
>basically immune to any accountability for a lot of Democrats.
>
>
>But when someone suggests the Dems fight like the GOP, its a
>"terrible strategy" and partisan.
>
>A terrible strategy that consistently works for the other
>side? A terrible strategy that stopped Obama's agenda in its
>tracks?
>
>I know- "Dems can't/shouldn't act like the GOP"
>
>That's kind of my point, though. Dem leaders and some voters
>want to keep pretending that there is some form of normalcy
>going on. There really isn't.
>
>So the Dems keep acting like everything is normal, and a lot
>of people get fucked. And they look silly.
>
>And if Trump really is as awful as we all say (including Dems
>in their hearings), why this urge to work with him on "common
>ground"? How do the Dems have "common ground" with this guy?
>
>And maybe it is a long-game of chicken where the Dems are
>going to be able to say "see, we even tried to work with him
>and the GOP voted against their own Pres" or
>whatever...fucking wait Chuck and Nancy. Wait at least a
>month or so and shine more light on the fact that individual 1
>is basically refusing to cooperate with congress, and ordering
>others not to cooperate.
>
>Shine light on Trump trying to dismantle Obamacare in the
>courts. Etc.
>
>
>And to your impeachment point, I (unsurprisingly to you, I'm
>sure) blame the Dem leaders. Either impeach or don't.
>
>Either hold Barr in contempt, or stop investigating.
>
>Either make every meeting/press even about Trump/Barr, or move
>the fuck on.
>
>
>This trying to half-way investigate Trump, but with no real
>plan to hold him accountable is muddling the message and will
>ultimately piss off everyone.
>
>So, if the Dems are going to impeach...do it.
>
>
>If not, stop the charade because all it is doing is making
>them look indecisive and like they are just holding
>hearings/investigations to ... well harass and put on a show.
>Which is exactly what they are being accused of. Make it
>count or stop.
>
>I know, impeachment takes time. Okay. Then stop giving him
>white house photo ops and cute stories about sharing tic tacs.
>

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu May-02-19 02:49 PM

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524. "Do you actually think there's anything Dem leaders could do..."
In response to Reply # 520


          


to remove Individual 1 from office before the 2020 election?

This isn't a comic book movie. The good guys don't get to win just because they're the good guys.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Thu May-02-19 03:01 PM

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526. "Nope - have been consistent w/that. "
In response to Reply # 524
Thu May-02-19 03:02 PM by Brew

          

But I think Impeachment proceedings (a) slow the bleeding of the ongoing criminal conduct and coverup, and (b) expose in public proceedings the past and ongoing criminal conduct and subsequent coverup, which IMO will only be a net positive heading into 2020.

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu May-02-19 02:43 PM

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523. "Your opinion seems highly dependent on the assumption..."
In response to Reply # 518


          

... that the electorate shares your opinions.

>Even if it is a "long game" of chicken, the timing is terrible
>man.
>
>Nancy is sharing tic tacs with Mr Obstruction? Oh and leaving
>it up to the "committees"? Cmon.
>
>
>Its also funny/frustrating that the GOP does shit like what I
>said all the time and come out on top.

We've had this discussion before. The rules are different for them, because their voter base is different. The very fact that so many Democrats are suspicious of even our own leaders means the only choice is to play defense.


>In fact, the GOP stonewalling Obama is often cited whenever
>even a slight criticism of Obama is brought up. He's
>basically immune to any accountability for a lot of Democrats.
>
>
>But when someone suggests the Dems fight like the GOP, its a
>"terrible strategy" and partisan.

Yes, because conservatism (even as defined today) does not work the same way as progressivism (even as defined today). You're relying on the same kind of false equivalence that feeds right-wing rants about "reverse racism" or "reverse sexism." "It applies to that group, so why doesn't it apply to this group!?"


>A terrible strategy that consistently works for the other
>side? A terrible strategy that stopped Obama's agenda in its
>tracks?

Yup.

And for the record, Trump's agenda has been "stopped" just as effectively as Obama's was, in the sense that no laws have been passed to make any of his agenda permanent (other than the tax cut, which happened before we were had any power).

>I know- "Dems can't/shouldn't act like the GOP"
>
>That's kind of my point, though. Dem leaders and some voters
>want to keep pretending that there is some form of normalcy
>going on. There really isn't.

There is definitely normalcy going on. It's just a normalcy that isn't conducive to progressive change.

So what's your reaction to that? I assume you're not calling for an armed rebellion, an overthrow of the entire Constitutional system. But that's the only thing that would upend the basic mathematics of the Democratic leadership's strategy.

Instead you seem to be hell bent on calling them out for not doing things that would make matters even worse.


>So the Dems keep acting like everything is normal, and a lot
>of people get fucked. And they look silly.

And you're letting your emotions take over.


>And if Trump really is as awful as we all say (including Dems
>in their hearings), why this urge to work with him on "common
>ground"? How do the Dems have "common ground" with this guy?

The voters expect them to pretend there's one. And infrastructure is a leading example.


>And maybe it is a long-game of chicken where the Dems are
>going to be able to say "see, we even tried to work with him
>and the GOP voted against their own Pres" or
>whatever...fucking wait Chuck and Nancy. Wait at least a
>month or so and shine more light on the fact that individual 1
>is basically refusing to cooperate with congress, and ordering
>others not to cooperate.
>
>Shine light on Trump trying to dismantle Obamacare in the
>courts. Etc.
>
>
>And to your impeachment point, I (unsurprisingly to you, I'm
>sure) blame the Dem leaders. Either impeach or don't.
>
>Either hold Barr in contempt, or stop investigating.
>
>Either make every meeting/press even about Trump/Barr, or move
>the fuck on.
>
>
>This trying to half-way investigate Trump, but with no real
>plan to hold him accountable is muddling the message and will
>ultimately piss off everyone.
>
>So, if the Dems are going to impeach...do it.
>
>
>If not, stop the charade because all it is doing is making
>them look indecisive and like they are just holding
>hearings/investigations to ... well harass and put on a show.
>Which is exactly what they are being accused of. Make it
>count or stop.
>
>I know, impeachment takes time. Okay. Then stop giving him
>white house photo ops and cute stories about sharing tic tacs.

If it has to be "impeach now or stop," then you're making the case for doing nothing. You know as well as I do that the Democrats don't have ANY power to remove the President from office.

But what they can do is feed the narrative of a lawless administration. The public is ON OUR SIDE on that point. They are NOT on our side with regard to impeachment.

The world does not behave the way we want it to behave.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Tue May-14-19 03:25 PM

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528. "missed this but"
In response to Reply # 523
Tue May-14-19 03:31 PM by Stadiq

          

>... that the electorate shares your opinions.
>
>>Even if it is a "long game" of chicken, the timing is
>terrible
>>man.
>>
>>Nancy is sharing tic tacs with Mr Obstruction? Oh and
>leaving
>>it up to the "committees"? Cmon.
>>
>>
>>Its also funny/frustrating that the GOP does shit like what
>I
>>said all the time and come out on top.
>
>We've had this discussion before. The rules are different for
>them, because their voter base is different. The very fact
>that so many Democrats are suspicious of even our own leaders
>means the only choice is to play defense.

Yeah we have. And we disagree on why its like this.

You think Dems act spineless because their voters are less reliable, essentially.

I think Dem voters are less reliable precisely because the party is spineless.

>
>
>>In fact, the GOP stonewalling Obama is often cited whenever
>>even a slight criticism of Obama is brought up. He's
>>basically immune to any accountability for a lot of
>Democrats.
>>
>>
>>But when someone suggests the Dems fight like the GOP, its a
>>"terrible strategy" and partisan.
>
>Yes, because conservatism (even as defined today) does not
>work the same way as progressivism (even as defined today).
>You're relying on the same kind of false equivalence that
>feeds right-wing rants about "reverse racism" or "reverse
>sexism." "It applies to that group, so why doesn't it apply to
>this group!?"

Nah, I'm not.

I'm saying the GOP have played dirty since at least the 90's and it has worked for them.

The Dems need to start playing dirty. Or at the very least, stop pretending the other side isn't playing dirty.



>
>
>>A terrible strategy that consistently works for the other
>>side? A terrible strategy that stopped Obama's agenda in its
>>tracks?
>
>Yup.
>
>And for the record, Trump's agenda has been "stopped" just as
>effectively as Obama's was, in the sense that no laws have
>been passed to make any of his agenda permanent (other than
>the tax cut, which happened before we were had any power).

Thats fair but now his new agenda is to obstruct at every turn. At some point, the Dems need to stop getting publicly punked, man.

Eating a bucket of day-old chicken aint the look.

>
>>I know- "Dems can't/shouldn't act like the GOP"
>>
>>That's kind of my point, though. Dem leaders and some
>voters
>>want to keep pretending that there is some form of normalcy
>>going on. There really isn't.
>
>There is definitely normalcy going on. It's just a normalcy
>that isn't conducive to progressive change.

? Things are most definitely not normal. Well, not in any way the party who supposedly is for the people should accept.


>
>So what's your reaction to that? I assume you're not calling
>for an armed rebellion, an overthrow of the entire
>Constitutional system. But that's the only thing that would
>upend the basic mathematics of the Democratic leadership's
>strategy.

I'm not even sure what your point is here. I'm calling for Dems to stop acting like that there is common ground to find with the other side. To follow through on these investigations. To stop giving Trumpito photo ops. To stop eating chicken. To stop sending me emails begging me to sign some petition to wag the finger at the GOP. Etc.

>
>Instead you seem to be hell bent on calling them out for not
>doing things that would make matters even worse.
>
>
? In your opinion. Having some confidence in your high ground, your investigations, you legislative power, etc...and actually ACTING on it would not make things worse.

Impeachment hearings would bring even more shit to light, I'm sure.


On the other hand, you seem hell bent to blindly support Dems no matter what (even here- where no one is going to stay home in 2020. Its okay to think critically of Nancy occasionally.)



>>So the Dems keep acting like everything is normal, and a lot
>>of people get fucked. And they look silly.
>
>And you're letting your emotions take over.
>
>

Uh, okay. Thats not it. It is possible I just disagree with you.

>>And if Trump really is as awful as we all say (including
>Dems
>>in their hearings), why this urge to work with him on
>"common
>>ground"? How do the Dems have "common ground" with this
>guy?
>
>The voters expect them to pretend there's one. And
>infrastructure is a leading example.

Again, this is where the typical Democrat blind supporter logic doesn't add up. One day Trump is horribly unpopular president who is so terrible the Dems don't even need a message to beat him. The next day, voters are expecting Dems to work with Trump.

One Day Trump is clearly a lawless incompetent Russian plant who could only beat Hillary with help from an adversary, the next day Dems everywhere are itching to see a bipartisan infrastructure plan.

I'll even meet you 75% of the way though, and say the Dems need to at least pretend to be trying. I STILL think the timing of that little tic tac meeting was terrible. In my opinion.

You have everyone from Barr to Trump JR telling Dems (publicly, no less) to fuck themselves with a copy of the constitution. And Nancy and Chuck are giving Trump a news story.


>
>
>>And maybe it is a long-game of chicken where the Dems are
>>going to be able to say "see, we even tried to work with him
>>and the GOP voted against their own Pres" or
>>whatever...fucking wait Chuck and Nancy. Wait at least a
>>month or so and shine more light on the fact that individual
>1
>>is basically refusing to cooperate with congress, and
>ordering
>>others not to cooperate.
>>
>>Shine light on Trump trying to dismantle Obamacare in the
>>courts. Etc.
>>
>>
>>And to your impeachment point, I (unsurprisingly to you, I'm
>>sure) blame the Dem leaders. Either impeach or don't.
>>
>>Either hold Barr in contempt, or stop investigating.
>>
>>Either make every meeting/press even about Trump/Barr, or
>move
>>the fuck on.
>>
>>
>>This trying to half-way investigate Trump, but with no real
>>plan to hold him accountable is muddling the message and
>will
>>ultimately piss off everyone.
>>
>>So, if the Dems are going to impeach...do it.
>>
>>
>>If not, stop the charade because all it is doing is making
>>them look indecisive and like they are just holding
>>hearings/investigations to ... well harass and put on a
>show.
>>Which is exactly what they are being accused of. Make it
>>count or stop.
>>
>>I know, impeachment takes time. Okay. Then stop giving him
>>white house photo ops and cute stories about sharing tic
>tacs.
>
>If it has to be "impeach now or stop," then you're making the
>case for doing nothing. You know as well as I do that the
>Democrats don't have ANY power to remove the President from
>office.

Again, no one here is saying Trump would be removed. You created that strawman to defend the Dems.

My point is the Dems should act like they actually believe in their case, believe in their power, and believe they are right.


By not ACTING on the constant "fuck yous" from the other side, it really does look like they are just engaging in harassment.

In my opinion.


>
>But what they can do is feed the narrative of a lawless
>administration. The public is ON OUR SIDE on that point. They
>are NOT on our side with regard to impeachment.

Impeachment hearings, contempt, big press conferences talking about the "constitution" and the "wise founding fathers" etc- all that bullshit- would be a good play. In my opinion.

If there really are independent voters that Dems are trying to get, then protecting the constitution and stopping a lawless Pres should speak to them. Show the difference between the parties. The Dems are in a position to even reclaim Patriotism and the love of the constitution here. But won't work at all if they don't act like they believe they have the power to at least start hearings.

Or, if the argument is keep with these hearing that go nowhere (and look like harassment at that point) and run a "look, we are a little better than them but not different they are good people" candidate for Pres....then I guess we can keep this board active thanks to another 4 years of Trump.


>
>The world does not behave the way we want it to behave.
>

Of course. Or we wouldn't be here. But don't mistake what I'm saying is what I want to see only. I honestly think the Democrats are making a mistake by using these hearings only to eat a bucket of day old chicken and give Trump good coverage on infrastructure.

Or introduce the idea of "self-impeachment" lol


If you believe (as you've said) that getting Trump out is the priority, it may cost some blue dog seats. But we need to get him the fuck out. And I don't think harassing through investigations with no plans for follow through and/or giving him good press on deals is the way to do it.


At some point, if nothing at all is done, Trump (and every talking head on all networks) is going to say "so why didn't you impeach?"

And in 2020 its going to look even more like the Dems were just harassing him. Or were too cowardly/indecisive to act.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49394 posts
Tue May-14-19 02:44 PM

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527. "I feel like I see some excitement for Warren bubbling up. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Of course, my social network is a limited group, but what I find is that people who really take the time to listen to her, really likes what she has to say.

The problem, which isn't a little problem, is that I also run across a lot of people who have a very instinctive, undefined, dislike of her. Reminds me of Hillary Clinton how they really can't pinpoint anything other than "just something about her I don't like". (I swear guys don't get it the same way. It takes Ted Cruz opening his mouth before people decide he has a punchable face). Even people who continue to harp on the Indian DNA thing have more of a general dislike of her rather than truly believe the episode was disqualifying.

Anyway, my hope is that the more people are exposed to her and really hear her idea, the more people will like her. My concern is that she won't be able to convert people because of these intangible dislikes that always followed Hillary Clinton.





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Tue May-14-19 03:32 PM

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529. "This isn’t true at all. Plenty of dudes run and get zero traction"
In response to Reply # 527


          

and it has nothing to do with their policies.

I like Warren. I really do.

I just think she doesn’t have that mean streak/snark needed to cut through the bullshit. I would have no problem voting for her if she is the front runner.

but I also don’t think she has a real chance because she sounds like she is timid as hell even when discussing inequality and saying all the right things

Politics is so petty.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue May-14-19 04:16 PM

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535. "I was specifically talking about the non-specific, ambiguous diss of"
In response to Reply # 529


  

          

"I don't know. Something about them just rubs me the wrong way". The media plays an assist by focusing on likability.

The timid thing is a complaint that only makes sense if you haven't seen her in action IMHOP. She so far has been the most angry, fired up Dem Candidate to date. She is the one talking perp walking CEOs and calling out the Sackler family by name for their role in the Opioid Crisis.

Infact, she can get angry in the way only a white woman is allowed to get angry. She can say (which she did) Betsy Davos is the Worst Head of Department of Education Ever without getting blow back for being sexist or an Angry Black Woman. Meanwhile, Corey Booker isn't even allowed to say Trump is a Racist!??


I am hoping that the way folks don't know that much about how she gets fired up will be a benefit in the debates because I really see her surprising people when they finally see her in action.





>and it has nothing to do with their policies.
>
>I like Warren. I really do.
>
>I just think she doesn’t have that mean streak/snark needed
>to cut through the bullshit. I would have no problem voting
>for her if she is the front runner.
>
>but I also don’t think she has a real chance because she
>sounds like she is timid as hell even when discussing
>inequality and saying all the right things
>
>Politics is so petty.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue May-14-19 06:21 PM

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541. "Another Example of her being angry. Name another Candidate who has"
In response to Reply # 529


  

          

said anything like this regarding Fox News:


https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1128314853595189249

Correct me if I am wrong, I just don't see anyone else doing this. Black Candidates know you can't call too many people racist, Bernie is all "it's economic anxiety" and the rest are too worried about scaring away white voters.

She's the lefty populist disguised as your middle school teacher.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Tue May-14-19 06:42 PM

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542. "yeah the Fox News thing shows she can"
In response to Reply # 541


          


Clap back. That was perfect and long overdue.

Something like that is what I was hoping
for on the DNA thing, so I hope she has learned.

I don’t think her toughness is an issue. I’d encourage
people to watch some clips of her town halls at least.
She is tougher and better at connecting with people
than I realized.



  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Tue May-14-19 03:36 PM

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530. "she has impressed me a lot"
In response to Reply # 527


          


when I have seen her town halls, etc.

I think she is much more natural and better at connecting with people than Hillary was. (in my opinion) A lot better than I realized. Her teaching experience really comes out- she breaks shit down.


She saw some poll gains too- I think she was even 2nd in a few polls a week or so ago.

I hope she goes far. I really wish Bernie wasn't running- I feel like he is eating up a lot of her support.


Her Fox News take this week was dope too.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue May-14-19 04:42 PM

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537. "shes the grownup bernie lol."
In response to Reply # 530


          

>I really wish Bernie wasn't running- I
>feel like he is eating up a lot of her support.

it says a lot that 'progressives' arent flocking to her over bernie. i dont know if its bitterness over the non-endorsement in 2016, sexism, name value or what.

but shes more progressive and further left than bernie. far more educated and well-developed in terms of policy implementation and feasibility. more range/depth on issues being addressed. and far less baggage/divisiveness/polarity. not to mention a more impactful/enduring legislative legacy already than bernie has had in 30 years. she did more in 2010 alone than bernie has done his whole congressional career and she wasnt even in congress then lol.

shes as close to the perfect (electable) progressive candidate as they come. like zero blemishes on that front.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Tue May-14-19 06:06 PM

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540. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 537


          

>>I really wish Bernie wasn't running- I
>>feel like he is eating up a lot of her support.
>
>it says a lot that 'progressives' arent flocking to her over
>bernie. i dont know if its bitterness over the
>non-endorsement in 2016, sexism, name value or what.
>
>but shes more progressive and further left than bernie. far
>more educated and well-developed in terms of policy
>implementation and feasibility. more range/depth on issues
>being addressed. and far less baggage/divisiveness/polarity.
>not to mention a more impactful/enduring legislative legacy
>already than bernie has had in 30 years. she did more in 2010
>alone than bernie has done his whole congressional career and
>she wasnt even in congress then lol.
>
>shes as close to the perfect (electable) progressive candidate
>as they come. like zero blemishes on that front.
>
>

Yup. I actually think she is more "electable" as well too.

I think she is far more capable of threading the needle and keeping center/establishment/older/whatever you want to call them Dem voters engaged.

The odds are very long that America would vote in a progressive, academic, liberal Democrat woman.


But the odds are even longer they would vote in an 80 year old socialist.



  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Tue May-14-19 03:45 PM

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531. "I've been warming up to Warren a lot lately. "
In response to Reply # 527


  

          

She has some good ideas and shes controlling the narrative by offering policy off the rip.

My big fear is that I get the sense that shes a bit old school, in the way that I think she would have been a killer candidate in the 90s or early 00s buuuuuut Trumpito kinda shifted the whole storyline and we're in an area where I think she would be well received after whoever comes after Trump normalizes things - kinda like, shes the house that would be built on a cleared foundation after a house burns down, but before you build a new house you gotta first put the fire out and then clear the debris. Eh, just a random thought.


***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue May-14-19 04:51 PM

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539. "I find Corey Booker way more old school and Bernie way more old. "
In response to Reply # 531


  

          

My biggest knock against Bernie and Biden is that they are old as fuck.

My biggest knock of Corey and Kamala is that they are running 2008 centrist Campaigns in 2020 where people want something more progressive.

I am hoping that Warren can pull a reverse Obama. That is, a lot of people got hyped by Obama and came out in droves and thought he was way more progressive then he is largely because he is black and is "cool". I am hoping Warren pulls a reverse Obama in that white conservative voters won't realize how progressive she actually but are put at ease by her because of her Oklahoma White Woman-ness.

Like this shit right here.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/11/warren-west-virginia-2020-1317611




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Wed May-15-19 09:27 AM

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547. "I like that, "Reverse Obama" "
In response to Reply # 539


  

          

i mean...you touched upon something that has been happening with the democratic party for some years now...it's trying to find it's soul. Either its going to keep the centrist path or it will embrace progressive action and thought and stop being so fucking reactionary to the chum the gop keeps throwing overboard.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Marauder21
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Tue May-14-19 03:55 PM

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532. "She's my #1 at the moment"
In response to Reply # 527


  

          

Not sure if she can win the nomination, but she'd be a better president than just about anyone in the field.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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godleeluv
Member since Jun 11th 2013
5861 posts
Wed May-15-19 10:06 PM

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552. "Mine too"
In response to Reply # 532


  

          


... "A Beautiful Struggle"
https://m.facebook.com/jamelabullock
Www.reverbnation.com/jamela

MELa
Musically.Entertaining.Lyrically.Alluring.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue May-14-19 04:02 PM

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533. "shes been on fire. "
In response to Reply # 527


          

seriously just about everything she has said and done for the past month or so has been damn near perfect.

if it was just about x's and o's...shes clearly the candidate most prepared to step in and start implementing policies on day 1.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue May-14-19 04:18 PM

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536. "I just hope my North East surroundings ain't got me fooled. "
In response to Reply # 533


  

          

My brother called me out for saying I dig her because she reminds me of professors I use to have...he ain't wrong.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue May-14-19 04:45 PM

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538. "you know how that goes. "
In response to Reply # 536


          

actual policy smarts aint that persuasive to a large portion of our electorate.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Tue May-14-19 04:04 PM

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534. "I feel like she has what it takes to win. She's got the right strategy"
In response to Reply # 527


          

She's flooding the midwest with Left Populism.

_______________________________________

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Tue May-14-19 07:30 PM

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543. "I like her a lot but it would be Drumf vs. HRC part 2 in the general"
In response to Reply # 527


  

          

The general electorate (especially in the midwest and south) is sexist and ignorant enough that the won't vote for a woman who's an academic. They'd frame her as "cultural elite" or whatever. And that's not even factoring in the "Pocahantas" shit.

All that said, on a policy level, she's killing it. Best ideas out of anyone on the campaign trail.

I'm hoping that if a Democrat wins the general, he/she appoint Warren to a cabinet position (she'd do well in lots of them, but lets just say education) and let her frame the policy from there.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed May-15-19 07:39 AM

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545. "The HRC comparisons are a bit lazy but I think her biggest optic liabili..."
In response to Reply # 543


  

          

that she probably won't choose Kamala as a running mate because of the fear of an all woman ticket. I think EVERYONE needs Kamala on their ticket to activate black women. Every white guy running knows it.





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed May-15-19 07:43 AM

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546. "every dem woman is hrc."
In response to Reply # 545


          

people were calling kamala hrc 2.0 when she launched her campaign too.

there are significant differences between all 3 of those people but one obvious common thread that has nothing to do with policy (or even personality).

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue May-14-19 09:11 PM

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544. "Yea E-Dubs is my #1."
In response to Reply # 527


          

I think she's recovering nicely from the huge gaffe in the fall. She's hitting all the policy notes, taking shots at Faux News, calling for impeachment loudly, and campaigning in the right places early on.

She's getting love in the midwest from what I understand too which is hugely important. She's hitting all their policy soft spots and I'm hoping those folks come to realize just how bad Individual 1 has fucked them, too.

I see the Hillary comparisons but reject them at this point because I think Warren's doing a way way better job campaigning early on. She's strategic where Hillary was counting on her name and rep to get her votes in certain places, resting on her laurels.

I do understand folks' concerns re: her ability to hold her own in debates down the road but let's get there first. I think if she continues climbing the ladder and gaining momentum she'll be fine in debates. She's smarter than a lot of the folks in the Dem field and like someone already said, can break shit down like few can because of her background in education. And she's definitely smarter than Individual 1 and I think she'll come with that fire if all he's got is "hey you're Pochahontas"

I'm finding myself starting to hope more and more that she rises up the ranks quick and wins the dem nomination. It's early as hell but she aligns w/my priorities more than most if not all the dem candidates thus far.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed May-15-19 10:28 AM

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548. "She should do townhalls non-stop. She should challenge any Republican"
In response to Reply # 544


  

          

to do a townhall in any town of THEIR choosing.

One thing I've come to see as important is that Republicans/Conservatives really can't survive outside of the insulated bubble of Fox News.

Ben Shapiro would never last in any room in any place in America with regular people and a smart opponent. These people need their twitter and cable news bubble to survive.

Same goes for most Republican politicians. Check out Sen. Chuck Grassley talk about Obamacare at a townhall

https://youtu.be/L1klfquaNwc

They are so use to placating rich donors that These people are not comfortable with their own constituents!!!

The best way to show conservatives are out of touch with the people is to force them to interact with the people.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Wed May-15-19 10:57 AM

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549. "She's excellent at town halls. She's kind of folksy on that platform"
In response to Reply # 548


          

and seems to connect with audiences.

On the flip side, speeches (and probably debates) is where she gets into lecture mode and is less effective. She needs to make some style changes here.

_______________________________________

  

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Teknontheou
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Wed May-15-19 11:01 AM

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550. "It seems like each of the major candidates has to have a rough "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

period, where people count them out. Then, they come out on the other end looking much better than before. That seems to be happening with Warren now. It happened with Joe. I think Bernie is in his right now. Kamala is still trying to turn the corner.

It's largely directed by how the media portrays any given candidate.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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551. "The media hates frontrunners and loves shiny new objects. "
In response to Reply # 550


  

          

It's just in their nature for compelling storytelling purposes that they focus on the new candidate when they announce, let them build momentum and if they get to big they start tearing them down and start focusing on the next new shiny candidate. It's almost like you have to peak at the right time.

They were totally into "promoting" Trump for his novelty and thinking he would fade and HRC was inevitabile that they aided and abetted his getting the office.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu May-16-19 01:48 AM

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555. "channels like msnbc tried their hardest to push elizabeth warren"
In response to Reply # 551


          

as a top challenger to hillary clinton for the 2016 dem nomination. they said she could lead a liberal tea party from the left.

they love pushing horse race narratives and elevating the dark horse.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu May-16-19 11:30 AM

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561. "it does take a good bit of retail political savvy to survive a media hit..."
In response to Reply # 550


          

the media pretty much killed amy klobuchars campaign on arrival with that salad comb shit.

beto doesnt seem to have recovered from his botched launch and the ridicule/dismissal that surrounded it.

i thought elizabeth warren was done after the dna test but im happy to be wrong. the way shes doing it...with substance...and not a bunch of political/media ploys...is impressive too.

what a difference a year makes (and why we/media shouldnt put too much stock in how things look early on).

  

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Teknontheou
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Thu May-16-19 03:32 PM

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568. "Warren handled that the best way she could, by dropping it "
In response to Reply # 561


  

          

right before the mid-terms. Now it's baked in the cake and has no umph, even though it's not necessarily forgotten.

  

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seasoned vet
Member since Jul 29th 2008
6024 posts
Wed May-15-19 10:26 PM

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553. "id rather they form like Voltron"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu May-16-19 01:00 AM

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554. "pro-bernie outlets are going scorched earth on elizabeth warren."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6pwQniXoAYY34S.jpg

they seem to be really threatened by her. she must be eating into his base.

warren is almost running neck and neck with sanders in the latest dailykos straw poll.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6ntORmW0AAOZz9.jpg

thats a poll that bernie has had a commanding lead in recently.

warren is prolly winning in reality...since bernie folks are known to be harvesting votes on social media and padding the results.

https://twitter.com/LoveAutismDogs/status/1128443085158014976
https://twitter.com/ban_poli_bots/status/1128397882443354113
https://twitter.com/BayArea4Bernie/status/1128388077846614016
https://twitter.com/WeLoveBernie20/status/1128379727339827201

  

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_explain555
Member since Oct 15th 2009
1412 posts
Thu May-16-19 07:14 AM

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557. "dats dumb cuz when biden announced only berndog numbers dropped "
In response to Reply # 554


          


inna polls i seen


clearly biden ate some of berns pie


why they takin out on warren lol


aint bern ask her not to run too?? her team should go public wit his bullshit

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu May-16-19 11:12 AM

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560. "this"
In response to Reply # 554


          


>
>warren is prolly winning in reality...since bernie folks are
>known to be harvesting votes on social media and padding the
>results.

He jumped up quickly too. I'm not saying I checked it every hour or anything, but I swear she was leading by a decent amount until late.

Even if it isn't padding (I think it is), Bernie folks everywhere at least gotta ask how he is falling and she is basically sky-rocketing by comparison.

A few months ago you and I were scratching our heads why she was so low on DailyKos.

She has momentum.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Thu May-16-19 06:26 AM

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556. "Declared candidate #23. DeBlasio throws his hat into the gumbo"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/16/712492409/new-york-city-mayor-bill-de-blasio-enters-2020-democratic-presidential-race

_______________________________________

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Thu May-16-19 07:45 AM

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558. "Gonna be 30 candidates by the first debate "
In response to Reply # 556


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Marauder21
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Thu May-16-19 08:33 AM

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559. "Why is he doing this?"
In response to Reply # 556


  

          

Honestly, you could ask that of at least half the people that have entered, but this makes zero sense.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu May-16-19 01:29 PM

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563. "He's bored and hates being mayor. "
In response to Reply # 559


  

          

https://twitter.com/eisingerj/status/1129024739303919617

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Marauder21
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49516 posts
Thu May-16-19 03:25 PM

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566. "So go eat a slice from every pizzaria in NYC and blog about it"
In response to Reply # 563


  

          

No need to run for President and waste everyone else's time.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22151 posts
Thu May-16-19 01:21 PM

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562. "So wait, he looked at the landscape and said to himself..."
In response to Reply # 556


  

          

"so you're saying...theres a chance?"

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Thu May-16-19 02:51 PM

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564. "jesus...question for those familiar with primary rules"
In response to Reply # 556


          


Can they split it into two debates?

Like, the top 8-10 candidates get one debate, and the next 8-10 get another minor-league/cabinet rehearsal debate?

  

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Marauder21
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49516 posts
Thu May-16-19 03:24 PM

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565. "The GOP did this in 2016"
In response to Reply # 564


  

          

They had undercard debates with some of the less popular candidates followed by a debate with the bigger dudes.

I imagine we'll see something similar here.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4873 posts
Thu May-16-19 03:42 PM

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569. "RE: The GOP did this in 2016"
In response to Reply # 565


          

>They had undercard debates with some of the less popular
>candidates followed by a debate with the bigger dudes.
>
>I imagine we'll see something similar here.


I hope they do something similar. This many benefits no candidate other than Biden and Bernie, since they already have the recognition. Won't be sufficient time for anyone else to shine.

And even if it does end up being Biden who wins the nom(sigh), I at least want candidates like Warren...hell even Harris, Booker, Beto, and Petey Pablo to get more air time.

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5613 posts
Thu May-16-19 03:30 PM

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567. "DNC Wildin' Out - bracketed freestyle battles instead of debates"
In response to Reply # 564


  

          

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Mon May-20-19 08:58 AM

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571. "lolz"
In response to Reply # 567


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38815 posts
Tue May-21-19 02:24 PM

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573. "Exactly who i thought of when Edmure Tully took his 10sec run at king"
In response to Reply # 556


  

          

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Tue May-21-19 10:08 PM

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574. "Do people really see something in Beto?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Dude just talks and talks and talks without saying anything.

He doesn't seem naturally charismatic to me either, in contrast to the Obama comparisons. Not inspirational either. Everything seems forced and rehearsed.

He really reminds me of an overly preprared and intense kid running for president of student government in college.

_______________________________________

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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49394 posts
Wed May-22-19 10:37 AM

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575. "Meh, I kind of think Warren might should have done a Fox Town Hall."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If Mayor Pete got a standing O will dissing Fox and rump she could have killed.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Wed May-22-19 10:55 AM

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576. "I get what you're saying but I'm fine with her taking the stand she did."
In response to Reply # 575


          

With a million dem candidates everyone's gotta try and differentiate themselves in various ways and I think shunning Faux and putting out a strong statement explaining *why* she was doing so was a good way of staying consistent with her general messaging and not just doing it to say she did it.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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naame
Charter member
21017 posts
Fri Apr-10-20 11:20 AM

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577. "RE: Who do you want to win the Dem nomination? (initial poll)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Mon Nov-09-20 08:30 AM

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578. ""only on OKP" n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Mon Nov-09-20 09:08 AM

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580. "look at this damn poll bwhahahahahahah"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Mon Nov-09-20 11:13 AM

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581. "A reminder.. this poll asked us who we WANTED to win"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Not who we thought had the best chance to win

but yeah...

and please don’t even look at post from primaries before South Carolina. We all thought Joe was dead at that point. Lmao.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Mon Nov-09-20 12:05 PM

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582. "did people forget there were 2 or 3 polls/posts after this?"
In response to Reply # 581


          

where bernie wasnt winning and the leader was warren and then biden i believe.

okp did a really good job of adapting to the changing of the landscape during the primary.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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49394 posts
Mon Nov-09-20 12:28 PM

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583. "Yeah I think there were more. I looked for myself because I swear"
In response to Reply # 582


  

          

I was one of the earliest adopters of Biden and by early adopter i think I said, I'd be fine with him. He is a decent human being.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79559 posts
Mon Nov-09-20 01:38 PM

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584. "My wife couldn’t understand why I voted Bernie "
In response to Reply # 583


          

but told her I thought Biden had the best shot to win due to old white people feeling okay with him.

She’s wondered why I didn’t just vote for Biden in the primary.

Cause I wanted Bernie to win.. I think he has the best plans for this country but unfortunately this country isn’t ready to apply a lot of his ideas.

Well, they weren’t until the pandemic. Funny how real life shit can make you change your mind on getting a check from the gov when times get hard.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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