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Subject: "The Million Dollar Question for 2020 is do we go moderate or truly progr..." Previous topic | Next topic
Buddy_Gilapagos
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44199 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 12:41 PM

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"The Million Dollar Question for 2020 is do we go moderate or truly progr..."


  

          

And I honestly can't call it at all.

My progressive friends tell me now is the time to be bold and push forward a bold progressive vision of how the country should be.

But I just don't see it. It just seems like living a whole different world than the white folks I work with and see around me all day.

I've also completely given up on the idea of personality-driven politics, that is, if we just got the RIGHT person in office, they will be able to fix it. I have a hard time thinking that Kamala Harris will be able to accomplish more than Barrack Obama did. I think the next Dem president can learn from Obama's mistakes and the mood and playing field has changed a bit, but I just really don't think it's a matter of the right person being in office to make Medicare for all, or gun control happens or fight mass incarceration, etc.

I've been thinking alot more about the boring stuff that needs to change to set the table for making the big stuff to happen. Redistricting, changes to voting and tax law. I've been thinking that ichanges to media consolidation laws could strengthen local ownership of newspaper and media outlets would have a major impact on politics (the nationalization of media and news outlets has had a terrible impact on voters and partisanship).

Anyway, I think we will have our answer in less than 2 years but its scary to think the wrong choice between these two choices could mean 4 more years of Trump.





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I know folks are focusing on the 2020 presidential election & I get that
Jan 30th 2019
1
Man that's suuuuuper hopeful ha.
Jan 30th 2019
4
      I know. I'm chasing some rainbows & unicorns
Jan 30th 2019
5
           Hahaha yea - and I'm not knocking you at all.
Jan 30th 2019
15
                for some reason reminded me of this bumper sticker
Jan 31st 2019
85
Progressive
Jan 30th 2019
2
Both! Accelerationists for Howard Schultz
Jan 30th 2019
3
progressive as hell, wave that goddamn freak flag high as fuck
Jan 30th 2019
6
If Schultz runs, do you think he takes votes away from Dems or Reps?
Jan 30th 2019
7
I've been pondering this. I don't see Dems voting for him
Jan 30th 2019
28
i thought dems at first but now im leaning towards repubs.
Jan 31st 2019
44
Just don’t be Hillary and we should be fine
Jan 30th 2019
8
Lol word
Jan 30th 2019
16
seriously.
Jan 31st 2019
48
moderate.
Jan 30th 2019
9
How is any of this moderate, though?
Jan 30th 2019
11
the literal purpose of a moderate is to *not* get a lot of shit done.
Jan 30th 2019
35
If we don't run a moderate, the GOP will be able to call the D nominee
Jan 30th 2019
10
They are going to do that regardless.
Jan 30th 2019
12
      Exactly
Jan 30th 2019
13
      Ding ding ding! BINGO
Jan 30th 2019
17
      right - plus, the notion that we should yield to the GOP on this
Jan 30th 2019
36
This country too big and christian to become progressive
Jan 30th 2019
14
Depends on the issue really. But i just want someone who is a
Jan 30th 2019
18
all the liberals with any kind of clout right now are progressive.
Jan 30th 2019
19
But they aren't national stars though
Jan 30th 2019
31
AOC too young to run anyway
Jan 30th 2019
33
media clout but not electoral clout.
Jan 30th 2019
41
      i hear you, but our choices right now
Jan 31st 2019
45
           our choices right now should be between winning and losing.
Jan 31st 2019
47
I have a "Pendulum Theory." Basically, to avoid population-wide trauma
Jan 30th 2019
20
Except Democrats been putting out moderates for decades
Jan 30th 2019
21
They've been putting out snobby elite pro-choice neocons with
Jan 30th 2019
23
so you want pro-life neocons with franks red hot instead? i'm good
Jan 30th 2019
25
      What? Lol thats not my point at all...Im saying
Jan 30th 2019
26
exactly.
Jan 30th 2019
37
I don't actually interpret that history any differently! In fact,if anyt...
Jan 31st 2019
60
sir.
Jan 31st 2019
67
My feeling is similar. I think the key is to have someone who
Jan 30th 2019
22
I remember this in 2007/08
Jan 30th 2019
30
      The republicans were totally cool with him, huh?
Jan 31st 2019
63
           They must've been
Jan 31st 2019
68
And this would be good if the two parties were ideologically symmetrical
Jan 30th 2019
27
We need a hard-left candidate just to get back to the center.
Jan 30th 2019
29
      unfortunately thats not how things have worked.
Jan 31st 2019
42
           all fair points.....it's up to the left-wing to make allies.
Jan 31st 2019
52
           this is liberals biggest mistake right here:
Jan 31st 2019
57
           But that mostly killed off the Blue Dogs
Jan 31st 2019
69
                blue dogs were the reason obama got to do anything.
Jan 31st 2019
77
                     They also killed the public option and nearly killed the ACA itself
Jan 31st 2019
82
Campaign finance reform and lobbying reforms
Jan 30th 2019
24
Corruption and Money out of Politics is the winning platform IMHOP.
Jan 30th 2019
32
Yep, and this could get bipartisan support
Jan 30th 2019
34
      democrats have a bill on the floor *right now* dealing with all of this!
Jan 30th 2019
40
           But I was just told something like this would get bipartisan support!
Jan 31st 2019
61
Here's the worst idea possible: Primary AOC and alienate Progressives
Jan 30th 2019
38
what about aoc allegedly working to primary dem incumbents?
Jan 31st 2019
49
      I am not sure why primarying anyone is a terrible thing. That's democra...
Jan 31st 2019
54
      in a lot of cases...primaries can weaken you for the general.
Jan 31st 2019
56
      She's denied that. There's nothing wrong with a primary, per se
Jan 31st 2019
59
The most "moderate" Democrat is still 10000x better..
Jan 30th 2019
39
this is important:
Jan 31st 2019
46
simple answer: let the voters decide (majority of dems want a moderate)
Jan 31st 2019
43
any facts behind the survey?
Jan 31st 2019
62
      Forget it, the survey has spoken
Jan 31st 2019
70
           hahaha
Jan 31st 2019
81
                Lol @ yall
Feb 07th 2019
145
all i know is 5 min of Howard Schultz had me damn near preferring Trump
Jan 31st 2019
50
fdr embraced the policies this dude thinks are 'too far left'.
Jan 31st 2019
51
lol i knew it. what a useless thing to lie about, let alone say
Jan 31st 2019
64
That dude screamed on him and called him an egotistical asshole
Jan 31st 2019
71
I wanted someone to ask him what he thinks he has in common with FDR
Jan 31st 2019
72
      yeah fdr is the posterboy lefty to end all lefties.
Jan 31st 2019
75
      he united the country and didn't divide us
Jan 31st 2019
76
agree with you after seeing him on CNN.
Jan 31st 2019
55
I just saw him talk 4 1st time other day and couldn't agree more
Jan 31st 2019
58
hope it hurts Starbucks financials too
Jan 31st 2019
65
You don't think we need a Centrist Billionaire at a time like this? lol
Jan 31st 2019
66
      some of these 'centrists' aint even really centrists.
Jan 31st 2019
73
           you can tell he'd go the hardest on entitlements and social programs
Jan 31st 2019
74
                right. I am honestly surprised how stupid he is
Jan 31st 2019
78
                centrism to own the libs.
Jan 31st 2019
80
                somehow the Starbucks "Race together" campaign seems even stupider
Jan 31st 2019
84
                yeah hes def on some bootstraps shit.
Jan 31st 2019
79
                     lol I swear he must've hosted like 10 dinner parties
Jan 31st 2019
86
                          people keep acting like both parties are equally extreme.
Feb 01st 2019
94
country won't survive another 40 years like the last 40 years
Jan 31st 2019
53
I'd wait to see what repubs do before buying center from dems
Jan 31st 2019
83
I mean does it really matter? What's the point?
Jan 31st 2019
87
Truly progressive all in
Jan 31st 2019
88
i think howard schultz is gonna end up pulling his campaign.
Feb 01st 2019
89
fuck Steve Schmidt while we're at it
Feb 01st 2019
91
trojan horse.
Feb 02nd 2019
102
      I dont think its *quite* as sinister as much as the RINOS are delusional...
Feb 02nd 2019
104
           steve schmidt brought us sarah palin. he is a snake.
Feb 02nd 2019
108
                he didn't deserve Woody Harrelson
Feb 02nd 2019
118
Eventually, the constant TV requests are going to stop
Feb 01st 2019
92
.
Feb 01st 2019
90
Semi-spinoff: Are there any prospective Dems you WON'T vote for
Feb 01st 2019
93
I won't vote for a candidate that accepts PAC money
Feb 01st 2019
95
So if they dont have that, you'll be fine with 4 more years of Trump?
Feb 01st 2019
97
      Recreational marijuana and ban the box...a couple more for my list.
Feb 02nd 2019
100
           ^^^ Ro Khanna 2024
Feb 07th 2019
146
Biden is the last person I want nommed, but he'd have my vote, no hesi.
Feb 01st 2019
99
1st poll out for howard schultz and...
Feb 01st 2019
96
The "policy" positions are totally irrelevant this cycle.
Feb 01st 2019
98
even this is unlikely if repubs control senate.
Feb 02nd 2019
101
*sigh* Yeah.
Feb 02nd 2019
105
You guys are depressing me
Feb 02nd 2019
106
      Better than it was in '18, in one sense, but the sense is crucial.
Feb 02nd 2019
109
      dems need to start talking about these things explicitly.
Feb 02nd 2019
111
      Thanks. Question for you
Feb 02nd 2019
112
           Nothing wrong with him running.
Feb 02nd 2019
117
                RE: Nothing wrong with him running.
Feb 02nd 2019
120
      the map is better for dems in 2020 but they would need to flip 4 seats
Feb 02nd 2019
110
           Got it thanks
Feb 02nd 2019
113
I'm waiting for a candidate to support dumping the fillibuster
Feb 03rd 2019
123
      Why would you say this?
Feb 03rd 2019
124
      you are both right in a way.
Feb 03rd 2019
125
           Interesting. Good points.
Feb 03rd 2019
126
           That is what I meant
Feb 03rd 2019
130
      nobody should campaign on nuking the filibuster.
Feb 03rd 2019
127
           It would literally make this country a better place if this happened
Feb 03rd 2019
131
Our system of government is broken forever (it looks like)
Feb 02nd 2019
107
      Yeah. It's been building for half a century
Feb 02nd 2019
119
           Its crazy to think of laws in the 60s
Feb 02nd 2019
121
                RE: Its crazy to think of laws in the 60s
Feb 03rd 2019
122
                     yeah the RFK Netflix doc
Feb 03rd 2019
129
Folks use HIllary's lost as a call for more progressive candidate, BUT
Feb 02nd 2019
103
Loss was less about Left/Right as it was Elites/Populists...even tho
Feb 02nd 2019
114
Because she didn't excite the base, was stale
Feb 02nd 2019
115
      trump won less share/percentage of the popular vote than romney
Feb 02nd 2019
116
           Trump didn't need the popular vote to beat Hillary
Feb 03rd 2019
128
Shultz embracing PC culture. Calls out the use of offensive labels
Feb 05th 2019
132
dude must wake up every morning and ask himself
Feb 05th 2019
133
      Who would've thought the man behind "Race Together"
Feb 05th 2019
135
split the difference
Feb 05th 2019
134
Campaign moderate, govern progressive
Feb 05th 2019
136
cnn to host town hall with howard schultz.
Feb 06th 2019
137
I agree with your overall point but
Feb 06th 2019
138
here you go:
Feb 06th 2019
140
      I am surprised but
Feb 06th 2019
142
If he HAD chosen to run as a Dem
Feb 06th 2019
139
that and also he has a shitload of money to spend on advertising.
Feb 06th 2019
141
https://youtu.be/DzfX0T4LDD8
Feb 06th 2019
144
i wonder what the split in the population is
Feb 06th 2019
143
Along this line I don't understand the pickiness of Democratic Voters
Mar 26th 2019
147
You can’t win an election with climate change in America.
Mar 26th 2019
148
its no surprise that when repubs attack a dem proposal
Mar 26th 2019
150
      It don't think it's waste or incompetence, so much asit's corruption
Mar 27th 2019
151
      2006? That’s mid term fam.
Mar 27th 2019
152
           Yeah it was the last time Dem's retook the house. They won largely
Mar 27th 2019
154
      very well said
Mar 27th 2019
155
dem voters consistently come up with reasons not to vote.
Mar 26th 2019
149
True. I think we vote tho but we waste too much time on trying to make
Mar 27th 2019
153
Are people saying this for the primary or the general?
Mar 27th 2019
156
I've decided, it's progressive all the way.
Sep 10th 2019
157
Welcome to the club holmes.
Sep 10th 2019
158

Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
21313 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 01:07 PM

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1. "I know folks are focusing on the 2020 presidential election & I get that"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


But I'm hoping the GOP screws up enough that we can get the White House & both houses of Congress. And if that cascades down the state level, some governorships and control of some state legislatures. Changes at the state & local level would be a huge help in moving along the boring (but important) stuff that you mention.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
17840 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 01:18 PM

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4. "Man that's suuuuuper hopeful ha."
In response to Reply # 1


          

>RE: I know folks are focusing on the 2020 presidential election & I get that
> But I'm hoping the GOP screws up enough that we can get the
>White House & both houses of Congress. And if that cascades
>down the state level, some governorships and control of some
>state legislatures. Changes at the state & local level would
>be a huge help in moving along the boring (but important)
>stuff that you mention.

The Repugs have screwed up an awful fucking lot in the last 3 years. Shit, the last 20ish. And they keep finding ways to win (including cheating/gerrymandering/voter suppression, obviously). So I have absolutely *no* confidence that this will happen.

But I'm open to discussion about how it could.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
21313 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 01:21 PM

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5. "I know. I'm chasing some rainbows & unicorns"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


Their base will always be there, voting for them. But what the GOP melts down enough in the next 2 years to pull all the swing voters our way?

45 is already in a serious decline. I wouldn't be shocked if it continued into 2020. And what if we could tie the GOP directly to him and all of his failures?

I know, I know, I know...I'm really reaching (go go gadget arms).

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
17840 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 02:20 PM

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15. "Hahaha yea - and I'm not knocking you at all."
In response to Reply # 5


          

I just wish I could share the optimism.

I mean everything you're saying makes sense. Polls #s plummeting and all that. Messaging will be important to tie everything *directly* to him. (It shouldn't take messaging, it's all so obvious ... but AmeriKKKA is racist and stupid and that's how we got Trump in the first place so ... I digress). Etc.

But I lost faith in all historical norms and institutions after 2016, specifically polls. Wish I hadn't.

But yea - naturally I hope you're onto something and it works.


> Their base will always be there, voting for them. But what
>the GOP melts down enough in the next 2 years to pull all the
>swing voters our way?
>
> 45 is already in a serious decline. I wouldn't be shocked if
>it continued into 2020. And what if we could tie the GOP
>directly to him and all of his failures?
>
> I know, I know, I know...I'm really reaching (go go gadget
>arms).

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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34236 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 09:23 PM

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85. "for some reason reminded me of this bumper sticker "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

https://me.me/i/hillary-2016-michelle-2024-chelsea-malia-sasha-2032-2040-2048-3596907

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28108 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 01:09 PM

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2. "Progressive"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Moderate is status quo and lacks energy. Hilary was moderate and look at how that turned out.

Dems need energy to contrast the negativity from Trump.

  

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Walleye
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14469 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 01:15 PM

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3. "Both! Accelerationists for Howard Schultz"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This guy brings something to the table that even Trump couldn't: the talent to bore folks into giving up on American Liberalism.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
20893 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 01:39 PM

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6. "progressive as hell, wave that goddamn freak flag high as fuck"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

stop pussy footing around things and trying to be centrist

stop being reactive to GOP tactics

stop trying to pretend that the country is not as progressive as it really is

stop trying to pretend that we are not ok

stop playing the same old political games in the new world (Obama started getting into this with use of metrics and targeting)

start be bold about positions

start developing an actual platform instead of being reactive to GOP tactics

start using MORE of a lean methodology with program development

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
14339 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 01:42 PM

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7. "If Schultz runs, do you think he takes votes away from Dems or Reps?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Sounds like his plan is to appeal more towards republicans

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3375 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 03:33 PM

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28. "I've been pondering this. I don't see Dems voting for him"
In response to Reply # 7


          


I could be wrong, and its risky as hell, but it seems like he'd appeal more to the mythical moderate republican.

I just wish he'd go away already.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
7147 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 12:39 AM

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44. "i thought dems at first but now im leaning towards repubs."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

after hearing him talk...hes basically a blatantly anti-dem michael bloomberg.

dude was supposed to be running as some bipartisan unifier but its been less than a week and he has already let the cat out of the bag and started bashing dems almost exclusively.

'centrist' dems of the schultz variety (and not the doug jones variety) tend to be coastal plutocrats...who are socially liberal but still wanna hoard all of their money and extract resources from the federal government to prop up large corporations.

hes the type of 'independent centrist' that ran in kansas and ended up taking more votes away from the repub gov candidate than the dem.

historically...the people who have split dem votes have done it from the left of the left. nader, stein, etc. this dude isnt anywhere close to that. in fact...he is the complete opposite (anti-union, low taxes on the rich, etc).

the type of dem centrists he is trying to appeal to are generally well educated suburbanites who know the political ramifications of voting for a indie in a contested election (why bloomberg never ran as an indie). they are the same people who revolted against trump and the repub tax plan and wiped the repub party out of previous strongholds like orange county.

i dont see him appealing to them much and costing them a chance to knock trump out of power and restore some financial sanity in washington.



sidenote: they had some 'expert' from the boston globe on morning joe the other day laying out how michael bloomberg has the most likely path to a democratic nomination due to primary structure, potentially monopolizing the moderate subgroup of the dem electorate, and some such other shit. if you wanna know why the pundit class is so clueless when things like donald trump happen...its because they listen to people like that.

------

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62354 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 01:50 PM

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8. "Just don’t be Hillary and we should be fine "
In response to Reply # 0


          

shut up already, damn

  

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Jon
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Wed Jan-30-19 02:21 PM

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16. "Lol word"
In response to Reply # 8


          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
7147 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 02:24 AM

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48. "seriously."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

------

  

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shygurl
Member since Oct 08th 2002
12677 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 01:52 PM

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9. "moderate."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

At this point, I need politicians who can accomplish things. Ideals are great and all, but having high ideals means nothing if you're not passing laws and actually working towards changing shit versus constantly being on your soapbox preaching till you're blue in the face while nobody is listening.

Give me somebody who'll get *some* shit done versus somebody who's ideologically pure but unable to do jack shit in the real world cause they lack the ability to debase themselves with their lessors.

_______________________________
Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall.

― F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby

  

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Marauder21
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49515 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 02:02 PM

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11. "How is any of this moderate, though?"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>Give me somebody who'll get *some* shit done versus somebody
>who's ideologically pure but unable to do jack shit in the
>real world cause they lack the ability to debase themselves
>with their lessors.
>

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Vex_id
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Wed Jan-30-19 08:14 PM

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35. "the literal purpose of a moderate is to *not* get a lot of shit done."
In response to Reply # 9


          

Moderates hold the center -- i.e. preserve the status-quo. If you're looking for someone to "get shit done" - you literally should be looking for candidates who aim to mold new consensus and challenging the business as usual order of the day.

Unless of course - you like the status-quo.

-->

  

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Marauder21
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49515 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 02:01 PM

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10. "If we don't run a moderate, the GOP will be able to call the D nominee"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

a crazy, far left, marxist radical who wants to destroy the family and will force all white Christians into FEMA camps. Better try and nominate an actual Republican, just to be safe.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62354 posts
Wed Jan-30-19 02:06 PM

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12. "They are going to do that regardless. "
In response to Reply # 10


          

We could run Ted Cruz and he would be called a lefty foreign socialist maggot.

shut up already, damn

  

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Marauder21
Charter member
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Wed Jan-30-19 02:10 PM

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13. "Exactly"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

No reason not to at least run someone who wants to do something. Joe Biden's not going to make the GOP all of a sudden realize they've been unreasonable all these years.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Jon
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17. "Ding ding ding! BINGO"
In response to Reply # 12
Wed Jan-30-19 02:22 PM by Jon

          

.

  

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Vex_id
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36. "right - plus, the notion that we should yield to the GOP on this"
In response to Reply # 12


          

is absurd. You think the GOP has cared about what Democrats think of their candidates? No. And that's why they've been so successful. They haven't compromised their principles and often run and support candidates who are on the bold fringes of party normalcy.

The GOP may be toxic trash - but they certainly aren't afraid to fight for their principles.

The problem with many conventional Dems is that too often they don't really even know what their principles are - or don't have a passionate perspective this way or that way - they just want to be electable and play it safe. That hasn't worked out too well.

-->

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
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14. "This country too big and christian to become progressive"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-30-19 02:39 PM by walihorse

  

          

since those scarcely populated states can represent with the same pull as Cali, NY, FL, Etc.

Plus gerrymandering and outside influence like citizens united.

I don't think we'll be able to become anywhere nears as progressive as say Canada until all of that is address.

Though I'm hopeful.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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Jon
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18. "Depends on the issue really. But i just want someone who is a"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-30-19 02:33 PM by Jon

          

genuine, real, intellectually-honest, problem-solver. Someone who thinks for themself and is focused on finding solutions to concrete solvable problems, willing to work with "enemies" and opponents (foreign and domestic) and would be very very hesitant to get us roped into more foreign entanglements.

But that ability to work across the aisle and come to their own views doesnt mean i want someone who is satisfied with status quo or scared of "socialism". I dont want a mole for the prison or military industrial complex. I dont want a pro-choice neocon. Etc

The country needs RADICAL changes economically, environmentally, socially, etc. But we dont need more divisiveness and partisanship. We have to find a way to get beyond the left-right divide in a progressive way if at all possible. Win ppl over to good ideas.

  

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IkeMoses
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19. "all the liberals with any kind of clout right now are progressive."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and a moderate lost in 2016.

ain't no time for no punk smooth shit.

go hard and go honest.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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31. "But they aren't national stars though"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

I love AOC but she is the bronx. She can say whatever and she would be find back home. Which is how it should be. The politicians from the liberal states should lob liberal shots because they have the cover to do so and help move everyone left.

But AOC can't win West Virginia. That dude from West Va has to win West Va.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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IkeMoses
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33. "AOC too young to run anyway"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Warren is national. Sanders is national.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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41. "media clout but not electoral clout."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

progressives dont even make up the majority of the democratic party so they def dont make up the majority of americans (unfortunately).

progressive power is overwhelmingly clustered into a few areas. northeast, west coast, minnesota, and colorado.

presidential elections are increasingly decided by a handful of states and none of them are progressive bastions. in fact...many of them are trending redder (oh, fl, ia, etc).

picking candidates that dont appeal to voters all across the nation...especially in crucial electoral college states...is political suicide.

------

  

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IkeMoses
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45. "i hear you, but our choices right now"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

are progressive candidates with pockets of heat.

and moderate candidates with no heat.

and Kamala.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Reeq
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47. "our choices right now should be between winning and losing."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

as much as i would love a super lefty as president...they tend to only appeal to urban metros and benandjerryland.

we gotta think/vote strategic.

theres a playbook to winning elections in this country. lets learn them routes.

the most popular car in america is the ford f series. 2nd is the chevy silverado. 3rd is the the ram pickup.

sometimes our biggest mistake is thinking who we aspire to be will prevail over who we really are.



------

  

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kfine
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20. "I have a "Pendulum Theory." Basically, to avoid population-wide trauma"
In response to Reply # 0


          


it might be better for either side to put forth more moderate candidates for head of state. Send the revolutionaries to the legislative branch, lol.

This is because whenever one side wins an election, there tends to be a 'backlash' and minimizing the polarity of that backlash is less traumatic for all involved.

In the US, there's a natural check-and-balance built into congressional representation (eg. it's bicameral, frequent election cycles in the lower house, etc) and progressives are actually quite empowered there by the ability to put forth legislation. It's on them to try and win support from the rest of the chamber to have it pass.

But head of state is one person with super high visibility. Better for that person to be stable and not crazy, embarassing, authoritarian, etc to a large segment of the population or the international community, imo.



  

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IkeMoses
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21. "Except Democrats been putting out moderates for decades"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

and Republicans keep responding with nuttier and nuttier candidates.

The swing goes from moderate liberal to hard right, not hard left to hard right.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Jon
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23. "They've been putting out snobby elite pro-choice neocons with "
In response to Reply # 21


          

hot sauce in their purse and a beyonce CD.

  

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IkeMoses
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25. "so you want pro-life neocons with franks red hot instead? i'm good"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Jon
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26. "What? Lol thats not my point at all...Im saying"
In response to Reply # 25
Wed Jan-30-19 03:32 PM by Jon

          

they've been "putting out moderates" in the sense of Dems who are Republican-lite on the issues, but who are still highly divisive and hyper-partisan and alienate the avg person on the other side (where i used terms like "snobby, elite, etc").

My point is that there's different kinds of "moderate"

There's ppl who are more progressive on the issues but less divisive with the people (and able to work with opponents for everyone's benefit)

And then theres the ppl who are basically republicans w/ a twist (my "pro-choice" quip) but thrive on the grandtsanding finger-wagging mudslinging nonsense that makes for a terrible leader.

  

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Vex_id
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37. "exactly."
In response to Reply # 21


          


-->

  

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kfine
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60. "I don't actually interpret that history any differently! In fact,if anyt..."
In response to Reply # 21
Thu Jan-31-19 10:52 AM by kfine

          

it's almost like: Exactly! That's what's happened in response to MODERATELY left-wing heads of state, can you imagine the backlash to a true progressive? lol. All I'm proposing is that a 'swing' exists.

Another thing to note too, is that I think in the case of Obama.. he is a special case. Because while he was fairly moderate politically, the fact that a black man was elected Head of State obviously activated hard-right members of US society with the reality that 'the country' must be moving in a more progressive direction, which would explain how/why a racist, sexist, proto-dictator resonated with so many people (unfortunately).

But then, equally important is the impact that 45s racism and sexism has had on the country.. which responded by electing the most diverse congress in American history and potentially the first woman (or even woman of color!) for President. We should admit that this too is a 'backlash', even if its a backlash we like.

I'm not trying to advocate for yielding to hard-right elements of society, though. Just to resist the convenience of shrugging them off as old, dying off, ineffective, etc and remaining vigilant of the damage/loss they can cause to people's lives. We saw in Charlottesville there is a young, renewed, and politically active contingent keeping hard-right political leanings alive and modernizing them. I personally suspect that moderate heads of state are more stable for a democracy and that motivating an engaged electorate to spur change through Congress is a better strategy, but it's also possible that people could simply just brace for backlashes if electing more politically extreme candidates for the highest office.

  

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double negative
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67. "sir. "
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Jon
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22. "My feeling is similar. I think the key is to have someone who"
In response to Reply # 20
Wed Jan-30-19 02:56 PM by Jon

          

is able to connect with (or at least not alienate) the "other side" on a human level, while maintaining a commitment to some of the more radical structural stuff and problem-solving we need to start doing asap.

A lot of ppl in liberal bubbles really underestimate how much love Bernie was getting from staunch rural working class lifelong republicans. He was able to conmect with them, he didnt point the finger at them, and ppl were getting open to some of his points. I had a Cruz-loving coworker in 2016 who said several of her Cruz friends told her they're voting for Bernie if its Trump vs Bernie. But they hated Hillary, so they voted Trump.

We need a leader who connects to ppl on both sides, but he/she doesn't have to be a moderate republican-lite on the issues.

  

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Marauder21
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30. "I remember this in 2007/08"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>I had a Cruz-loving coworker in 2016 who
>said several of her Cruz friends told her they're voting for
>Bernie if its Trump vs Bernie. But they hated Hillary, so they
>voted Trump.

They said it about Obama, back when it looked like Hillary was a lock for the nomination. That Barack Obama, he's a good, principled man, who is unfortunately getting steamrolled by The Clinton Machine. While I don't agree with all of his ideas, he seems like he is a fundamentally decent man. Then he shocked everyone by winning the nomination, and Republicans were totally cool with him.

Same thing totally would've happened with Bernie, he would've won a shitload of GOP votes and Senate Republicans would approve all of his judges, since the only reason they didn't with so many of Obama's is because he got Too Elite. They're definitely not playing you.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Hitokiri
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63. "The republicans were totally cool with him, huh?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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Marauder21
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68. "They must've been"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

Because they said as much back then.

If that was NOT the case, then it means that all of the "he's a good man who I happen to disagree with on some things, but I could still support someone like that" coming from Republicans is all bullshit.

Are you saying you DON'T believe that a bunch of Ted Cruz fans wouldn't have voted for Bernie Sanders?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Marauder21
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27. "And this would be good if the two parties were ideologically symmetrical"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

But they aren't. When one party completely ditches the idea of procedural norms, it makes no sense to keep upholding them just for the sake of appearances.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
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Wed Jan-30-19 04:24 PM

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29. "We need a hard-left candidate just to get back to the center."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

The GOP have pushed the country so far right that true leftists in the federal gov't might be the only counter to all of that. I want more representatives like Ocasio-Cortez in Congress.

---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

  

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Reeq
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42. "unfortunately thats not how things have worked."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

dems going further left has historically led to dems (especially whites without a college education) fleeing the party. just look at the south, midwest, and rust belt/appalachia.

as recently as 2011...there were 2 dem senators in north dakota. alabama had a majority dem state house. west virginia had a majority dem state house through 2013. a dem governor through 2016 (elected in 2012).

but dems embracing issues like gay marriage, black lives matter, no fossil fuels, etc cost them dearly just about everywhere but liberal coastal states.

dems arent even competitive on a statewide level anymore in places like missouri, kentucky, ohio, and louisiana because the party has gone 'too far left' for those states. those states are trending *hard* right.

the repub party...on the other hand...is more authoritarian so they follow the party top down. just look at their evolution on guns, climate change, russia, etc. those were all brought about by special interest groups, donors, etc. the republican base moves along with the party.

so in this case there isnt an equal and opposite reaction.



------

  

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rorschach
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52. "all fair points.....it's up to the left-wing to make allies."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

I had a debate with a friend not too long ago where I basically laid out why I, a left-winger, couldn't support any major left-wing movements just yet. They aren't making the case on the benefits of their platform to enough Americans. All of their discussions sound so academic, like they just copy and pasted whatever their favorite professor said.

Not only that, I'm hoping the younger groups learn the power of compromise. Work with Democrats. Work with Republicans. Stop holing up in college towns and go to rural America, the Midwest, the South.
---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

  

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Reeq
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57. "this is liberals biggest mistake right here:"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

>All of their discussions sound so academic, like they just
>copy and pasted whatever their favorite professor said.

thinking smart/right = effective/appealing.

------

  

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Marauder21
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69. "But that mostly killed off the Blue Dogs"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

Who were on a clock the minute Obama got into office. You weren't going to see a bunch of Blue Dogs keep their seats under any kind of Democratic presidency regardless of what they did or didn't do in Obama's first two years.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
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77. "blue dogs were the reason obama got to do anything."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

>Who were on a clock the minute Obama got into office. You
>weren't going to see a bunch of Blue Dogs keep their seats
>under any kind of Democratic presidency regardless of what
>they did or didn't do in Obama's first two years.

it wasnt always like this. blue dogs held down clinton and took it to bush. the dem senate leader before harry reid was from south dakota lol.

the fact we view them as a transient property now speaks to the trend i was highlighting.

------

  

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Marauder21
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82. "They also killed the public option and nearly killed the ACA itself"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

The Democratic party on a national level is to the left of where a lot of these people were, so any D president (could've been Hillary, could've been Biden, whoever) was going to require them to either break with their party leadership or take some votes that were going to cost them in their home district. Even if they would have taken Rahm's advice and scaled back the ACA to basically a slightly expanded SCHIP program, it still would've cost them because it was a mostly untenable alliance between a more progressive party whose legislators were coming from largely more conservative districts.

It's not really feasible right today to put together a Blue Dog coalition made up of legislators from R+ districts and enact any sort of genuinely progressive legislation. Fortunately, the current Dem caucus in the house seems pretty united (though once we're at the part where passing legislation that the President will actually sign happens, we may see some divisions.) But I doubt it will be anything as bad as Lieberman, Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu holding the ACA hostage every other week.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Numba_33
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24. "Campaign finance reform and lobbying reforms"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

are quite necessary before anything truly progressive occurs on a federal level from the White House. A candidate can be as progressive as they want to be as a candidate, but there's too many big monied impediments to get truly progressive actions passed on a federal level from the White House.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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32. "Corruption and Money out of Politics is the winning platform IMHOP. "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

It worked before and everyone can get behind it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Jon
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34. "Yep, and this could get bipartisan support "
In response to Reply # 24


          

  

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Reeq
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40. "democrats have a bill on the floor *right now* dealing with all of this!"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

hr1.
https://twitter.com/StandUpAmerica/status/1089940440357486594

national voting holiday, automatic voter registration, dark money disclosure and regulation, increased regulation/oversight of lobbyists, small donor matching system to amplify the influence of actual people over corps/pacs, end partisan gerrymandering, etc.

basically an entire democracy-restoring wishlist.

republicans are already attacking it as democratic party power grab lol.
https://mobile.twitter.com/senatemajldr/status/1090369625320243201

apparently ensuring more americans are actually allowed to exercise their legal right to vote would lead to more victories for democrats.

thanks for saying the quiet part out loud.

------

  

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Marauder21
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61. "But I was just told something like this would get bipartisan support!"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Vex_id
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38. "Here's the worst idea possible: Primary AOC and alienate Progressives"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/427364-some-dems-float-idea-of-primary-challenge-for-ocasio-cortez

There is a real push from within DNC ranks to primary AOC. They are already going to primary Tulsi in Hawaii - and it seems like the new tactic is try to excise any non-conformist progressive dem that challenges the conventional Pelosi-Schumer leadership.

This is essentially the dumbest thing the Democrats could do. The Millennials will soon be the largest voting bloc in the country - and they are markedly different from their older party loyalists. They are less partisan, more progressive, and increasingly skeptical of traditional leadership. The notion that you would try to alienate this gigantic demographic instead of sprinting to court them is a tactical error of unfathomable proportion.

-->

  

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Reeq
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Thu Jan-31-19 03:13 AM

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49. "what about aoc allegedly working to primary dem incumbents?"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

is that fair game? it doesnt go both ways?

she came to washington on the back of organizations like justicedems...whose mission was to primary dem incumbents. if aoc...as a sitting congresswoman...still supports that organization and even actively works to primary her fellow caucus members...then why shouldnt she have a target on her back as well?

personally i dont think primarying incumbent democrats is productive unless its someone actively blocking or watering down dem legislation (tulsi has actually been this person in the past but doesnt seem to be one for now).

so i dont condone primarying either one. and the *dnc* is not supporting a primary against either one (we have to be careful/precise with the language).

the official dnc didnt even support a primary against tulsi when she was conservative. in fact she had a position on the committee. the dnc...just like the rnc...tends to support incumbents.

tulsi is being challenged by a member of the state party who is actually a lifelong progressive. and he is being supported by progressive organizations like dailykos (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/24/1828955/-Tulsi-Gabbard-s-values-are-out-of-step-but-we-have-a-much-better-progressive-choice-in-Kai-Kahele). all of this is routine and above board.

if people support aoc primarying dems to install more progressives...shouldnt those same folks support gabbard being primaried by someone with a stronger progressive pedigree who has the support of grassroots organizations?

those same folks did just support ayanna pressley primarying a dem incumbent progressive caucus member with one of the most progressive voting records in congress.



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Buddy_Gilapagos
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54. "I am not sure why primarying anyone is a terrible thing. That's democra..."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

What's wrong is when outside money and interest comes in to support a primary but the idea that incumbents should not be challenged is bad for democracy.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Jan-31-19 09:23 AM

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56. "in a lot of cases...primaries can weaken you for the general."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

make you spend a lot of money you could normally stockpile for the general, expose you to attacks your general opponent could pick up, alienate some potential voters, etc.

there have been instances of people raising a shitload of dough and putting themselves in good position for the general. but then getting a primary challenge and losing in the general because their resources were depleted and stretched.

but this isnt really just about primaries in general. this is about people in congress supporting primaries against their caucus mates.

its like an nba player actively trying to get a teammate traded. im sure you can see the issues there.

------

  

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Vex_id
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59. "She's denied that. There's nothing wrong with a primary, per se"
In response to Reply # 49


          

>is that fair game? it doesnt go both ways?

It does - but at some point as an organization you have to be strategic and decide how you want to push your brand. Is it smart for the DNC to continue to back candidates like Crowley and thwart the undeniable new/young energy that AOC infuses into the party? I'd argue it's so foolish that it's laughable.

>so i dont condone primarying either one. and the *dnc* is not
>supporting a primary against either one (we have to be
>careful/precise with the language).

The DNC acts covertly when they maneuver in primaries. Here in NH, the state party infrastructure (in lockstep with the DNC) pushed Chris Pappas in CD1 (while appearing to be neutral on the surface). There are many things that the DNC can do to support its chose candidate behind the scenes (donor $ funneling, prime media features, curated debates, organizing PR/endorsements etc..)

After the 2016 primary, you can't seriously claim that the DNC doesn't have bias towards certain candidates/incumbents. DNC operatives are at work in every congressional district - which isn't a problem in itself - except when the result ices out new energy and progressive momentum.

>tulsi is being challenged by a member of the state party who
>is actually a lifelong progressive. and he is being supported
>by progressive organizations like dailykos
>(https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/24/1828955/-Tulsi-Gabbard-s-values-are-out-of-step-but-we-have-a-much-better-progressive-choice-in-Kai-Kahele).
> all of this is routine and above board.

God the dailykos again lol. But I love how now we are having progressive purity tests. How quickly things have changed. Tulsi was warned in 2016 by Hillary and DNC operatives that there would be consequences - and they are making good on that promise:

https://dailycaller.com/2016/10/14/wikileaks-gabbard-received-spiteful-email-from-fundraisers-over-sanders-support/

>if people support aoc primarying dems to install more
>progressives...shouldnt those same folks support gabbard being
>primaried by someone with a stronger progressive pedigree who
>has the support of grassroots organizations?

Of course - but let's just not be naive and say that there aren't forces within the DNC that want to oust Gabbard.




-->

  

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handle
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39. "The most "moderate" Democrat is still 10000x better.."
In response to Reply # 0


          

The most "moderate" Democrat is still 10000x better than NAY Republican.

I'm to the left of most mainstream Democratic candidates and I support any/all that can ACTUALLY win.

The Republics lie/cheat their way in losing the popular vote (happened TWICE in the last 19 years) but technically winning office - and then steer the congress/senate/country HARD RIGHT.

Howard Schultz is a putz, so is Bloomberg and they each be a BILLION times better than Trump.

Vote Democratic for local representative, congress, senate, and president. Once those can align we can steer harder to the left.

Or don't and wind up with 2 - possibly 4 more right wing lunatics on the supreme court.


------------
My prayers have been answered!

Gone
My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Jan-31-19 01:00 AM

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46. "this is important:"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

>Vote Democratic for local representative, congress, senate,
>and president. Once those can align we can steer harder to the
>left.
>
>Or don't and wind up with 2 - possibly 4 more right wing
>lunatics on the supreme court.

gop couldnt drive hard right without first capturing state power and excluding likely opposition from voting, killing ethics/campaign finance oversight, gerrymandering to artificially inflate their power/majority, etc.

while dems focus on changing policy to win elections...repubs focus on changing actual elections.

before dems can even begin to think about passing any policy...we have to focus on changing actual elections and tilting the balance of access back to likely dem voters to put us in a better position to accrue power at all levels. fortunately...voting rights are part of the dem state and national mantle now (automatic voter registration, nonpartisan redistricting, felon re-enfranchisement, etc).

------

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Jan-31-19 12:14 AM

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43. "simple answer: let the voters decide (majority of dems want a moderate)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/pewresearch/status/1089613347434188800

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Thu Jan-31-19 12:04 PM

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62. "any facts behind the survey?"
In response to Reply # 43
Thu Jan-31-19 12:31 PM by Stadiq

          

Who responded to the survey, how were the questions worded, etc?

Also, when was it done? I could see recent buzz about M4A and free college skew these results if it was done recently.


I think it needs to be more precise than "run a moderate" in my opinion.


Dems win when they have an engaging candidate with a message. The best play for the Presidency and the party in general is continue to make the difference between the two parties VERY clear- which even I (lol) think they have been doing a pretty good job at lately.

I do think it would be a huge mistake to just run against Trump and essentially say "lets go back to the Obama days" because, even though the Obama days were so much better, that isn't a winning message. Especially in the rust belt.

Campaign finance reform, expansion of voting rights/access/convenience, progress on healthcare costs, addressing climate change, expanding social security, etc.

In other words, go progressive on specific issues. But maybe not to the point of "insurance industry? nah, fuck all that" lol...something more well thought out.

  

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Marauder21
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70. "Forget it, the survey has spoken"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

Joe Biden/Colin Peterson 2020: Build The Wall, But For Good Reasons

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3375 posts
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81. "hahaha"
In response to Reply # 70


          

>Joe Biden/Colin Peterson 2020: Build The Wall, But For Good
>Reasons

Build The Wall, but with 100% recycled material


  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11736 posts
Thu Feb-07-19 12:22 AM

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145. "Lol @ yall"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Jan-31-19 04:53 AM

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50. "all i know is 5 min of Howard Schultz had me damn near preferring Trump"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

from listening to part of his morning Joe interview. It's literally the first time I've ever heard him speak.

Colossally unlikable, up his own ass with nothing to really say except whine about Trump being terrible and Democrats being so far left, and the typical Republican spiel about how we can't afford government handouts (but without using the word handout, because, independent)

Then Mika or Joe asked him some a goofy gotcha question about if he knows how much a box of cheerios cost, which he couldn't answer but went on about growing up in the projects.

Another question about who his favorite republican and democratic presidents were. he gave the stock answers of FDR and Reagan and proceeded to suck off Reagan as guys like him always do, but doesn't actually give any actual reasons for Reagan's greatness other than some rehearsed anecdote about how he always wore his coat in the oval office. Because that's what's important to Americans. Reagan wore a jacket.

Fuck that guy.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Jan-31-19 05:04 AM

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51. "fdr embraced the policies this dude thinks are 'too far left'."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

and reagan was jacket-less in the oval office all the time.
https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2019/01/reagan-no-jacket.jpg
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ronald-reagan-jacket-oval-office/

i watched that same interview and dude is an absolute asswipe.

the longer he continues to talk...the more he is going to get ripped apart. im sure he got a few 'aleppo's on deck.

------

  

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Mynoriti
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64. "lol i knew it. what a useless thing to lie about, let alone say"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

i can only imagine the hissy fit he had from obama putting his feet up on the desk. he probably had dinner with the home depot guy over it.

he only said FDR because of WWII. it's the safe answer but it's doubtful he knows anything about him except that and polio. that's why he immediately drooled over Reagan. "I just came from the Reagan libraray" lolol

>and reagan was jacket-less in the oval office all the time.
>https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2019/01/reagan-no-jacket.jpg
>https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ronald-reagan-jacket-oval-office/
>
>i watched that same interview and dude is an absolute
>asswipe.
>
>the longer he continues to talk...the more he is going to get
>ripped apart. im sure he got a few 'aleppo's on deck.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62354 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 02:58 PM

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71. "That dude screamed on him and called him an egotistical asshole "
In response to Reply # 64


          

I laughed.

They need to bring that dude to every rally and interview to scream on dude.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/29/howard-schultz-denies-a-2020-run-as-independent-could-re-elect-trump


and he also looks like a president of a bankrupt EU country



shut up already, damn

  

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Marauder21
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Thu Jan-31-19 03:01 PM

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72. "I wanted someone to ask him what he thinks he has in common with FDR"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

Because the president who passed the largest expansion of the welfare state and social programs in American history and was HIGHLY partisan is not the role model I'd expect from a guy whose sole beliefs seem to be "I don't want to pay taxes" and "People should Reach Across The Aisle and Be Civil."

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
7147 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 03:29 PM

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75. "yeah fdr is the posterboy lefty to end all lefties."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

'a 70% marginal top tax rate and medicare for all are unamerican'.

also: 'i love the president who imposed a 90+% marginal top tax rate and wanted to socialize medicine'.

its crazy how being rich in one field lets you treat everything else like an entry level job.

the press completely skipped over asking how he was qualified and went straight to asking what he would do once he got hired.

------

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Jan-31-19 03:33 PM

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76. "he united the country and didn't divide us"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

during this country's greatest challenge. and how too many politicians divide us when we need to come together. that's pretty much exactly what he'll say.

i seriously doubt he's even aware of how FDR represents everything he's bitching about.

if someone brought it up, he'd pivot back to WWII and united us, and maybe he wore a jacket too.

>Because the president who passed the largest expansion of the
>welfare state and social programs in American history and was
>HIGHLY partisan is not the role model I'd expect from a guy
>whose sole beliefs seem to be "I don't want to pay taxes" and
>"People should Reach Across The Aisle and Be Civil."

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
41463 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 09:07 AM

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55. "agree with you after seeing him on CNN. "
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

I mean who could have thought the guy who founded Starbucks could be so bereft of a soul!

  

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Jon
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Thu Jan-31-19 09:43 AM

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58. "I just saw him talk 4 1st time other day and couldn't agree more"
In response to Reply # 50


          

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3375 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 12:33 PM

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65. "hope it hurts Starbucks financials too"
In response to Reply # 50


          


This guy is a fucking idiot.

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Jan-31-19 01:27 PM

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66. "You don't think we need a Centrist Billionaire at a time like this? lol"
In response to Reply # 50


          


-->

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
7147 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 03:14 PM

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73. "some of these 'centrists' aint even really centrists."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

supposedly they are 'fiscally conservative' but 'socially liberal'.

but really they are neither.

they just like the low taxes on the rich. they dont care about offset taxing/spending to balance budgets or any other mythical conservative fiscal restraint principle.

and they arent really socially liberal either. they dont care about equality or restorative justice for past sins against marginalized people. they just have a couple gay friends that they respect enough not to use the f word around.

give schultz a few more months. he is gonna be complaining about affirmative action and pc/outrage culture lol.

------

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Jan-31-19 03:27 PM

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74. "you can tell he'd go the hardest on entitlements and social programs"
In response to Reply # 73
Thu Jan-31-19 03:35 PM by Mynoriti

  

          

under some 'teach a man to fish' narrative. the only thing worse than a born on third base conservative is one who worked his way up and thinks his experience applies to everyone.

not that we have to worry about him winning anything. his idea that he must be doing something right if he's pissing off democrats is somehow going to generate votes is a bit weird. i suppose he thinks he's gonna pull the exhausted majority, but really his only appeal is to a handful of rich RINOs who won't admit who they voted for.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
3375 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 03:54 PM

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78. "right. I am honestly surprised how stupid he is"
In response to Reply # 74


          


> his idea
>that he must be doing something right if he's pissing off
>democrats is somehow going to generate votes is a bit weird. i
>suppose he thinks he's gonna pull the exhausted majority, but
>really his only appeal is to a handful of rich RINOs who won't
>admit who they voted for.
>
>

Not that I ever thought about this dude before in my life, but when I read the "I must be doing something right if everyone is so mad" or whatever I legit scratched my head.

Picturing him looking at himself in gold-trimmed mirror in his 1500 bath robe saying "They hate you....its working" WTF?

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Thu Jan-31-19 04:02 PM

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80. "centrism to own the libs."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

like does dude realize who the customer base of the coffee company he still owns a majority stake in is?

is he tryna short his own stock?

------

  

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Mynoriti
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Thu Jan-31-19 04:46 PM

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84. "somehow the Starbucks "Race together" campaign seems even stupider"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

than it already was. i had always viewed it as a ridiculous but well intended white liberal bubble type of idea, but it's really just some guy who lives up his own ass thinking it will make the world see him as a visionary who just might solve racism.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
7147 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 03:55 PM

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79. "yeah hes def on some bootstraps shit."
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

prolly wants to pass a national right to work law too...if not outright ban all collective bargaining.

>the only thing
>worse than a born on third base conservative is one who worked
>his way up and thinks his experience applies to everyone.

funny how he grew up in housing projects that were funded by a 90+% marginal top tax rate thats apparently unamerican now.

its a lot harder for other folks to climb that same ladder when you pull it up after you.

these boomers are fucking garbage fam.

------

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Jan-31-19 10:03 PM

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86. "lol I swear he must've hosted like 10 dinner parties "
In response to Reply # 79


          

where everyone at the party was pontificating recklessly and like, "you know what Howard, you should run for President. The Center Must Hold!" as they watched Tom Brokaw and discussed the latest Jon Meacham biopic.

Dude is so dry, boring and audacious w/ ego that it's actually comical to watch.

I know you don't watch Dore - but this had me dying:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgTbhAA_OVc


-->

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Fri Feb-01-19 02:02 PM

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94. "people keep acting like both parties are equally extreme."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

like affordable healthcare and raising the minimum wage arent popular. and drastically cutting taxes for rich people is a 50/50 issue.

we re-defined 'center' as basically slightly left of the republican party. when it really should be where the center/median of the american electorate is.

we have a centrist party. its the democratic party. they sit squarely within the majority of just about every issue. even the 'far left' is a slight tick away from the true center and well within the mainstream consensus.

lol @ that jimmy dore video.

------

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15538 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 07:35 AM

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53. "country won't survive another 40 years like the last 40 years"
In response to Reply # 0


          

What passes for "moderate" here is a legit conservative.
Nah, go forward & left, especially as the boomers die.
Cold War babies are nuts, as are their politics.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
14342 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 04:28 PM

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83. "I'd wait to see what repubs do before buying center from dems"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I've heard both Romney and Kasich are considering POTUS campaigns

If that side ends up splintering...100% progressive.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11736 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 10:05 PM

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87. "I mean does it really matter? What's the point?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Putin has 100% influence and will just steal the election, and we just need to lock step check the blue box and not the red one no matter who it is right? #lessonsfrom2016

Seriously tho, the obvious answer is more progressive. Everything has been thrown into the shutter the past couple years because the country was starting to wake up. We got to keep going while we have this momentum. I legit dont mind capitalism and getting money, I just say let's count profits after we've accounted for human living and the planet. That's all.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
3203 posts
Thu Jan-31-19 10:40 PM

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88. "Truly progressive all in"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Stop running scared.

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
7147 posts
Fri Feb-01-19 06:58 AM

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89. "i think howard schultz is gonna end up pulling his campaign."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

not because he realizes he cant win (which he already does).

not because he will split the vote for democrats (which he wants to do).

but because him and steve schmidt realize hes actually taking more votes from trump.

dude is using terms like 'unamerican', 'far left', and 'silent majority'. those notes aint exactly music to liberal or centrist ears.

------

  

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Mynoriti
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91. "fuck Steve Schmidt while we're at it"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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102. "trojan horse."
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

dude spent the last 2 years talking about what an extraordinary threat trump is to our country. meanwhile behind the scenes he was maneuvering to carry out a significant step that could likely keep him in power.

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Mynoriti
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104. "I dont think its *quite* as sinister as much as the RINOS are delusional..."
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

Schmidt, David Brooks, Morning Joe, Frum, etc..

They're always going on about how much they detest Trump and how he doesn't represent their values but will never admit Trump is simply the naked version, and that their values have always been trash.

They still think the Republican party can return to pretending someone like Trump was never them, and they think there's a genuine hunger for that among Republicans as well as an imaginary block of Democrats who fear AOC will turn is into Venezuela

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Reeq
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108. "steve schmidt brought us sarah palin. he is a snake."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

while he was publicly saying shit like this...
https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/status/1009325255142207488

...and he was denying he was working on any campaign like this...
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/01/schmidts-break-from-the-gop-the-talk-of-dc-753107

....somehow we magically end up with an 'indie' candidate that bashes democrats using conservative think tank verbalism. schultz didnt pull that out of nowhere.

------

  

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Mynoriti
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118. "he didn't deserve Woody Harrelson"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          


--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Marauder21
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92. "Eventually, the constant TV requests are going to stop"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

and it'll just be him and the numbers that show he doesn't have a shot to win a single electoral vote.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
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90. "."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Feb-01-19 07:14 AM by Reeq

  

          

.

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Marauder21
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93. "Semi-spinoff: Are there any prospective Dems you WON'T vote for"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

even in the general?

I was thinking about what happens if Joe Biden runs and wins the nomination. I will be PISSED if it's Biden. I want nothing to do with his GOP-friendly, pervy old man "suck it up and get TOUGHER, youths/the billionaires are our friends" attitude and rehashed 90's era policies. If he actually runs, he's going to piss away all of the goodwill he built up during the Obama years in a way that would make Hillary Clinton wince. And if he does come out of a field this crowded, it's going to be on the backs of a lot of sexist and race-baiting campaigning. Fuck off and retire, your job was to convince enough racists to vote for Obama in 2008 to give him a mandate.

BUT, I'd still vote for him, no third party protest bullshit, no "I'm going to write in (person I admire that is not running.)" Unless we get ranked choice voting, it's a shitty thing to do and I judge you for engaging in these shenanigans.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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bentagain
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Fri Feb-01-19 02:16 PM

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95. "I won't vote for a candidate that accepts PAC money"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

and isn't pushing Medicare For All

those 2 policies are non-starters for me

In the general...anyone but Trump.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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97. "So if they dont have that, you'll be fine with 4 more years of Trump?"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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bentagain
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100. "Recreational marijuana and ban the box...a couple more for my list."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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bentagain
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146. "^^^ Ro Khanna 2024"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

Somebody asked me in one of these posts who I am excited about as a politician and potential POTUS candidate

Ro Khanna is checking off alot the boxes for me

I know he's a newly elected official and needs more experience, so I'll officially throw his hat in the ring for 2024, LOL

still adding to my list;
Opposes regime change/nation building
Reinstilling the power to declare war to Congress (not sure how to say this correctly, but a candidate that sees issues with US military operations in Syria, Yemen, etc...without congressional approval)

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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IkeMoses
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99. "Biden is the last person I want nommed, but he'd have my vote, no hesi."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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96. "1st poll out for howard schultz and..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

dude has a consistent favorability of 4 among each party and indies.
https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/1091488430050160641

if dude wants to tarnish his brand...personal and business...then by all means go right ahead.

------

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Fri Feb-01-19 07:39 PM

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98. "The "policy" positions are totally irrelevant this cycle."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Feb-01-19 07:57 PM by stravinskian

          


EDIT: irrelevant to the eventual presidency, that is. They'll obviously pose big issues during the primary. But that's a long-standing weakness in the Democratic party and the progressive movement.


No Democrat will sign any significant law in the next eight years, let alone an ambitious proposal like M4A or free tuition.

We won't take back the Senate in 2020, even a simple majority, and it'll be even harder to take it back in the next three cycles.

So the only job of a Democratic president is to staff the courts and bureaucracies with people who aren't right-wing lunatics, and to veto attempts from a GOP congress to throw personal rights and liberties in the wood chipper. All the Democrats would be functionally identical on those counts.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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101. "even this is unlikely if repubs control senate."
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

>So the only job of a Democratic president is to staff the
>courts and bureaucracies with people who aren't right-wing
>lunatics

a repub majority is killing any and all nominations/confirmations.

democracy be damned. theyve completely broken government and their voters reward them for it. theres no incentive to do anything other than consolidate power for the party and crush everyone else.

media 'both sides' it all so theres pressure to change when they never have to face real accountability.

------

  

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stravinskian
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105. "*sigh* Yeah."
In response to Reply # 101


          

I like to think that if the judiciary gets hugely understaffed it'd be reported as a problem and a handful of "consensus" Republicans would step in to let them through. But we've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary.

And the media would report is as "Mitch McConnell isn't letting any judicial nominees come up for a vote. But *some say* the Democratic President is only nominating extremist candidates. Seems to us like both sides need to come together!"

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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106. "You guys are depressing me "
In response to Reply # 105


          


Does the senate map really look that bad?

I swore I read the map in 2020 is better for Dems,
but you guys follow it more closely.

I can’t go back to drinking every day lol

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sat Feb-02-19 02:21 PM

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109. "Better than it was in '18, in one sense, but the sense is crucial."
In response to Reply # 106


          

>
>Does the senate map really look that bad?
>
>I swore I read the map in 2020 is better for Dems,
>but you guys follow it more closely.

There will be more Republicans up for reelection than Democrats. That's a good thing. But the Republicans who are up are in states that are safe for Republicans. WV, KY, NC, SC, GA, LA, AR, NE, SD ... We might be able to pick up a seat in Colorado, Maaaaaybe NC or GA, but all the others are longshots. At the same time, we're almost certain to lose Doug Jones in Alabama, and we're not at all safe with Mark Warner's seat in Virginia. Jeanne Shaheen in NH should watch out, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_Senate_elections

If I was betting, I'd imagine it'll remain 53R, 47D, and then it's slowly downhill from there for the next few cycles.

  

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Reeq
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111. "dems need to start talking about these things explicitly."
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

tangible trophies to win.

thats one thing trump mastered. laying out clearly whats on the table and how his party can win it. repubs have crystal clear assignments/objectives when they vote. retain senate to install judges, elect governor to control redistricting, etc. they say it all out in the open.

while dem voters are arguing about what issues they wanna pick this cycle to decide who not to vote for...repubs are playing politics like a sport and mapping out the x's and o's.








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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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112. "Thanks. Question for you"
In response to Reply # 109


          


Does this make you second guess a Sherrod run?

I’ve gone back and forth but mostly thinking
beating Trump is the top priority.

But I also didn’t realize how rough the senate looked.

Do you still favor him running?

  

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stravinskian
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Sat Feb-02-19 04:35 PM

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117. "Nothing wrong with him running."
In response to Reply # 112


          

>
>Does this make you second guess a Sherrod run?

You don't have to resign from the Senate to run for president. Even in the general. Most people don't.

But yeah, this is a major problem for him. Speaking as an Ohioan, it really was a colossal fuckup that we lost that Governor's race to nine-bibles Mike DeWine.

But again, I don't even expect the Senate to be realistically in play. If Sherrod not running meant, best case scenario, we could end up down by three seats instead of 4, then I'd rather have him run for president.

Also, if he (or any Democrat) won, we'd only have to get to 50 for a majority, instead of 51, because we'd have the tiebreaker. So it's not like we'd "entirely" lose the seat.

I want him to run, be very prominent, make a clear case that Democrats still care A LOT about steel country, but be prepared to give a VERY hearty endorsement to draw over some of that support if/when he has to drop out. And as with all candidates, don't DARE criticize another frontrunner.

  

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Stadiq
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Sat Feb-02-19 08:02 PM

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120. "RE: Nothing wrong with him running."
In response to Reply # 117


          


Got it and yeah I agree. To clarify, I meant would
you give up his seat to see him become President, which
you answered.

I def hope he runs and at least goes far in the
primary, because I think his dignity of work message
would really resonate with voters the Dems need.

And, as you said, supporting/stumping for the winner
would be key. I hope everyone plays nice.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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110. "the map is better for dems in 2020 but they would need to flip 4 seats"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

plus hold on to doug jones seat.

the only repubs in trouble right now are gardner and collins. then maybe tillis in nc.

but dems seem to be concentrating all of their time and energy on the prez race (while people like the koch brothers are focusing on the senate).

things could change before nov 2020...especially if the economy takes a downturn...but none of that is guaranteed.

------

  

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Stadiq
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113. "Got it thanks"
In response to Reply # 110


          


I am surprised the economy hasn’t tanked already,
frankly.

  

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Marauder21
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123. "I'm waiting for a candidate to support dumping the fillibuster"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

That might be enough to win my vote. Nothing of any substance is going to be passed in the Senate as long as we have this archaic rule that, while it has sometimes helped Dems in the past, is more likely to hinder progressive bills than conservative ones.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sun Feb-03-19 11:18 AM

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124. "Why would you say this?"
In response to Reply # 123


          

>is more likely to hinder progressive bills than
>conservative ones.

You may be right. And maybe my boundless pessimism is showing. But it seems like it's just the opposite. Because the Senate apportionment rules are so heavily weighted to rural states, on average the Republicans are generally more likely to hold the senate majority and therefore the filibuster would more often kill Republican bills.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Sun Feb-03-19 11:33 AM

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125. "you are both right in a way."
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

historically the filibuster has been used more to kill bills coming from the democratic side.

thats because dems are expected to actually pass legislation. thats how we have made progress in a bunch of areas in this country. through dem legislation. which now gets blocked almost universally by republicans.

obamas presidency was obviously an example of this on steroids.

repubs are basically just expected to cut taxes/regulations and install judges. they can do most of that through the reconciliation process (requiring simple majority), congressional resolution act invalidation (simple majority), federal judiciary confirmation (simple majority), changing rules or level of enforcement at the agency/dept level (with appointments requiring simple majority).

the other side of the coin...repubs are more likely to have a senate majority (for reasons you stated). which is going to make it necessary for dems to filibuster a lot of their far right legislation.

its prolly not in either sides best interest to nuke the filibuster at this point. and they both recognize that.

------

  

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stravinskian
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Sun Feb-03-19 11:42 AM

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126. "Interesting. Good points."
In response to Reply # 125


          

  

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Marauder21
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130. "That is what I meant"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

As a governing philosophy, the left requires doing things. The right just needs to NOT do things, and it's always going to be easier to kill bills than pass them as long as you need 60 votes.

It's fundamentally anti-democratic and (in my opinion) more of a hindrance to progressive legislation. Because it's at least possible (while probably not likely in the near future) for Democrats to make enough permanent gains in purple states to maintain a Senate majority someday. Whereas as long as you need 60 votes to pass anything, it's going to be tougher to pass the types of huge bills that we would need passed. Whatever status quo needs to be changed will only be maintained.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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127. "nobody should campaign on nuking the filibuster."
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

i see some influential people in progressive circles starting to make that *another* litmus test (on top of m4a, green new deal, etc) and its incredibly stupid.

even when trump screams about nuking the filibuster...most repubs outside of far right nutjobs are like meh.

first off...youre effectively advocating to abolish the senate. and even tho thats eventually what might need to happen just to pass *any* progressive legislation...you cant say that out loud or make it seem premeditated.

you have to make it look like an unavoidable last ditch option that the other side forced you into. even mcconnell understands he has to make his assault on democracy look like a reaction to reid/biden/etc.

------

  

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Marauder21
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131. "It would literally make this country a better place if this happened"
In response to Reply # 127
Sun Feb-03-19 08:05 PM by Marauder21

  

          

>first off...youre effectively advocating to abolish the
>senate. and even tho thats eventually what might need to
>happen just to pass *any* progressive legislation...you cant
>say that out loud or make it seem premeditated.

I'm not saying make it a litmus test. I don't think anybody would even pass, as most of the big name candidates (Warren, Harris, Sanders, Gillibrand, Booker, maybe Brown or Klobuchar) would be endorsing the idea of putting themselves out of a job. But yes, this should be a long-term goal as a possible constitutional amendment someday. If not abolishing the Senate, at least reforming it.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Sat Feb-02-19 01:49 PM

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107. "Our system of government is broken forever (it looks like)"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

We had a good run.

The only way for anything to get done without twisting the spirit of the rules (like reconciliation, Executive orders) is to have control of the house, control of the White House and a 60 vote majority in the senate.

I don't foresee that happening anytime again in the near future (for either side).
I think Obamacare is the last big piece of legislation we will see for a long while.



_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sat Feb-02-19 04:49 PM

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119. "Yeah. It's been building for half a century"
In response to Reply # 107


          


and I honestly don't see what could change it. The causes of most of these problems are embedded in the Constitution, and if we can't even pass a law, we certainly won't change the Constitution. Especially if the amendment is designed to weaken the Senate representation of over half the states, LOL.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Sat Feb-02-19 09:11 PM

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121. "Its crazy to think of laws in the 60s"
In response to Reply # 119


          


That got passed. How the fuck did all that happen?

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Sun Feb-03-19 02:23 AM

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122. "RE: Its crazy to think of laws in the 60s"
In response to Reply # 121
Sun Feb-03-19 02:27 AM by stravinskian

          

>
>That got passed. How the fuck did all that happen?

I'm not a historian or a sociologist, but these are the outlines of how I understand it.

Late-stage postwar afterglow. In the early 20th century we were basically the only major economy in the world that wasn't blasted to smithereens, TWICE. From this came exponential expansion of the economy, and a universal, justified expectation that everyone's children will be better off than they are. Even though the world was shit for a lot of Americans, a critical mass of them was so optimistic about the future that they just left it to the political class to do their own thing. The people generally trusted the politicians, and when those politicians compromised, even on things their constituents might be furious over, the constituents tended to give those politicians the benefit of the doubt. This left a lot of room for compromise, which really isn't always a bad thing. As terrible as it can be in a lot of cases, our legislative system is designed in such a way that compromise is a necessary lubricant, and without it, the machine just breaks. It's just too easy to slow things to a crawl (or a stop) when the politicians themselves are polarized.

Really, THAT'S "American exceptionalism." We weren't endowed by God with our place in the world. Our slaveholding founding fathers weren't geniuses of statesmanship or diplomacy. And our system of government, sorry to say, is just very poorly designed. European parliamentary systems were largely built after ours and, while they also aren't perfect, they polished up a lot of the mistakes of the American system. The profound gift of not being blown up in the world wars not only made us rich, it also allowed a poorly designed system to work for a good long time. There was well over a century of American history where we weren't a superpower, and our politics were a complete fucking mess. Just as I'm typing this, I'm wishing I knew more about 19th-century US history, because now that that postwar afterglow seems to be dying off the politics of the future might echo that era a lot more than the filmed and taped icons of the 40s-90s that we think of as American government.

I'm slightly drunk at the moment, so I hope that doesn't all sound like bullshitting.

All we have to fear is fear itself. And now, fear is back.

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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129. "yeah the RFK Netflix doc"
In response to Reply # 122


          


Has had me scratching my head at how little
is accomplished these days.

To your point about people still trusting politicians
at the time...I do think that’s spot on. Nixon and
Vietnam helped kill that of course.

>>
>>That got passed. How the fuck did all that happen?
>
>I'm not a historian or a sociologist, but these are the
>outlines of how I understand it.
>
>Late-stage postwar afterglow. In the early 20th century we
>were basically the only major economy in the world that wasn't
>blasted to smithereens, TWICE. From this came exponential
>expansion of the economy, and a universal, justified
>expectation that everyone's children will be better off than
>they are. Even though the world was shit for a lot of
>Americans, a critical mass of them was so optimistic about the
>future that they just left it to the political class to do
>their own thing. The people generally trusted the politicians,
>and when those politicians compromised, even on things their
>constituents might be furious over, the constituents tended to
>give those politicians the benefit of the doubt. This left a
>lot of room for compromise, which really isn't always a bad
>thing. As terrible as it can be in a lot of cases, our
>legislative system is designed in such a way that compromise
>is a necessary lubricant, and without it, the machine just
>breaks. It's just too easy to slow things to a crawl (or a
>stop) when the politicians themselves are polarized.
>
>Really, THAT'S "American exceptionalism." We weren't endowed
>by God with our place in the world. Our slaveholding founding
>fathers weren't geniuses of statesmanship or diplomacy. And
>our system of government, sorry to say, is just very poorly
>designed. European parliamentary systems were largely built
>after ours and, while they also aren't perfect, they polished
>up a lot of the mistakes of the American system. The profound
>gift of not being blown up in the world wars not only made us
>rich, it also allowed a poorly designed system to work for a
>good long time. There was well over a century of American
>history where we weren't a superpower, and our politics were a
>complete fucking mess. Just as I'm typing this, I'm wishing I
>knew more about 19th-century US history, because now that that
>postwar afterglow seems to be dying off the politics of the
>future might echo that era a lot more than the filmed and
>taped icons of the 40s-90s that we think of as American
>government.
>
>I'm slightly drunk at the moment, so I hope that doesn't all
>sound like bullshitting.
>
>All we have to fear is fear itself. And now, fear is back.
>

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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103. "Folks use HIllary's lost as a call for more progressive candidate, BUT"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

how does that square with the fact that she lost to a candidate waaaay further to the right?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Jon
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114. "Loss was less about Left/Right as it was Elites/Populists...even tho"
In response to Reply # 103


          

Trump is a fake-as-fuck populist, flaunts a super contrived "realness", and is just as much of an elite as Hillary, if not even more so. ...but Trump's act won over swing voters who previously went for Obama, and he won a chunk of would-be Bernie voters (independents as well as some ppl who normally vote republican but were won over by Bernie's message)

Yellow Vest situation going on overseas, with all its complicated mix of left/right positions among the ranks, is just one more indicator that shit is becoming more and more about "the people" vs "the machine" (however various folks define and understand those categories)

  

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Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
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115. "Because she didn't excite the base, was stale"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

Trump's racism got the racist base worked up.

---------------------------
Signature

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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116. "trump won less share/percentage of the popular vote than romney"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

and lost by 3 million votes.

against someone who supposedly underperformed herself.

we gotta stop treating him like he set the base on fire.


------

  

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Lurkmode
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128. "Trump didn't need the popular vote to beat Hillary"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

>and lost by 3 million votes.
>
>against someone who supposedly underperformed herself.
>

She did under perform, she lost the blue wall.

>we gotta stop treating him like he set the base on fire.
>
>
>

They didn't have to be on fire just worked up enough to do more than the Dem base, like not switch sides and turn out.

---------------------------
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Mynoriti
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132. "Shultz embracing PC culture. Calls out the use of offensive labels"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/_waleedshahid/status/1092589787259781125?s=19

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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Reeq
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133. "dude must wake up every morning and ask himself"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

how he can become even more unlikeable.

the funny part is...before this grand rollout...the narrative was that he was building the best pr team that money could buy.

------

  

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Mynoriti
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135. "Who would've thought the man behind "Race Together""
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

would be so clueless and out of touch

>how he can become even more unlikeable.
>
>the funny part is...before this grand rollout...the narrative
>was that he was building the best pr team that money could
>buy.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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134. "split the difference"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

go to moderate and the bernie bros and fam will attempt to split

go to far left and you won't really lose moderates but you will fire up GOP bases

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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wluv
Member since Jan 27th 2003
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Tue Feb-05-19 04:17 PM

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136. "Campaign moderate, govern progressive"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Running as a moderate is a must to galvanize those few thousands in key states Hillary lost by. For instance Michigan and Pennsylvania we cant AFFORD to lose again if we are going to have a shot. Itd be cool to pick up Ohio and North Carolina too but at this point its baby steps.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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137. "cnn to host town hall with howard schultz."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

who isnt even running yet.

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1093230837276004355


the media seems all in on giving this dude as much air time as possible to help split votes away from the eventual dem candidate and help re-elect trump.

reminds me of the truest quote trump ever spoke:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/us/politics/trump-interview-excerpts.html
-------------------------------
TRUMP: We’re going to win another four years for a lot of reasons, most importantly because our country is starting to do well again and we’re being respected again. But another reason that I’m going to win another four years is because newspapers, television, all forms of media will tank if I’m not there because without me, their ratings are going down the tubes. Without me, The New York Times will indeed be not the failing New York Times, but the failed New York Times. So they basically have to let me win. And eventually, probably six months before the election, they’ll be loving me because they’re saying, “Please, please, don’t lose Donald Trump.” O.K.
-------------------------------

------

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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138. "I agree with your overall point but"
In response to Reply # 137


          


What dem voting group is going to vote for him?

I just don't see it.


Don't get me wrong, I'd rather not risk it. But I don't see any Dem saying "this is my guy"...


>who isnt even running yet.
>
>https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1093230837276004355
>
>
>the media seems all in on giving this dude as much air time as
>possible to help split votes away from the eventual dem
>candidate and help re-elect trump.
>
>reminds me of the truest quote trump ever spoke:
>https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/us/politics/trump-interview-excerpts.html
>-------------------------------
>TRUMP: We’re going to win another four years for a lot of
>reasons, most importantly because our country is starting to
>do well again and we’re being respected again. But another
>reason that I’m going to win another four years is because
>newspapers, television, all forms of media will tank if I’m
>not there because without me, their ratings are going down the
>tubes. Without me, The New York Times will indeed be not the
>failing New York Times, but the failed New York Times. So they
>basically have to let me win. And eventually, probably six
>months before the election, they’ll be loving me because
>they’re saying, “Please, please, don’t lose Donald
>Trump.” O.K.
>-------------------------------
>

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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140. "here you go:"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1092392333125898240

------

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Wed Feb-06-19 04:18 PM

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142. "I am surprised but"
In response to Reply # 140
Wed Feb-06-19 04:18 PM by Stadiq

          

It is still early, and his unfavorables in that very poll make the results...odd.

Like I said, I would not want to risk it. I still have doubts if he'd take significant votes from a strong Dem candidate in 2020.


But, yeah, fuck this dude.

  

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Marauder21
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Wed Feb-06-19 03:49 PM

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139. "If he HAD chosen to run as a Dem"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

there would have been a couple days of Twitter jokes and done.

But the "maverick billionaire" thing gives the political media such a curiosityboner that they fall all over themselves covering a guy with no natural constituency who hasn't released a single policy proposal.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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141. "that and also he has a shitload of money to spend on advertising."
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

so channels have no problem whooing/fleecing him.

------

  

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Mynoriti
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144. "https://youtu.be/DzfX0T4LDD8"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

https://youtu.be/DzfX0T4LDD8

>-------------------------------
>TRUMP: We’re going to win another four years for a lot of
>reasons, most importantly because our country is starting to
>do well again and we’re being respected again. But another
>reason that I’m going to win another four years is because
>newspapers, television, all forms of media will tank if I’m
>not there because without me, their ratings are going down the
>tubes. Without me, The New York Times will indeed be not the
>failing New York Times, but the failed New York Times. So they
>basically have to let me win. And eventually, probably six
>months before the election, they’ll be loving me because
>they’re saying, “Please, please, don’t lose Donald
>Trump.” O.K.
>-------------------------------
>

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
10449 posts
Wed Feb-06-19 04:22 PM

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143. "i wonder what the split in the population is"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

how many people would vote for an openly racist pro white at all costs candidate. how many would vote for a "small" government "pro-life" candidate. how many would vote for a moderate government "pro-choice" candidate. how many would vote for a true progressive candidate (M4A, UBI, free college, bank regulation).

trump shows us about 30% of voters would choose the first.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Mar-26-19 02:32 PM

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147. "Along this line I don't understand the pickiness of Democratic Voters"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Folks out there like, "oh I can never vote for Kamala Harris because she was a prosecutor 20 years ago" or "I don't like Bernie because of his answer on reparations" meanwhile I am looking around like "Are yall fucking kidding?!?! We are this close to Trump getting 4 more years and folks acting like they can sit this one out if they don't get the exact candidate of their dreams?"

There just seems to be this huge disconnect for me between what is going on inside the house of progressive and Dems in general and the world going up in flames.

To be honest, I am skeptical about leading with the Climate Change Bill.

I feel like the only thing people care about is having a good ass job, a home that is safe and quality and affordable healthcare and education. We could talk only about that and win over everyone.

Once you win over the people with the basic stuff then you can talk about the other stuff.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
62354 posts
Tue Mar-26-19 08:33 PM

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148. "You can’t win an election with climate change in America. "
In response to Reply # 147


          

Healthcare
Jobs
Economy
War/Security

shut up already, damn

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Mar-26-19 11:54 PM

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150. "its no surprise that when repubs attack a dem proposal "
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

they always tie it to an (often over-exaggerated or fabricated) effect on jobs, the economy, or our safety as a nation.

when dems attack repub policy they usually do so from a standpoint of morality (which clearly a lot of americans dont give a fuck about...even the 'moral majority').

dems need to pair every argument against a repub policy with an attack based on money and/or security.

lack of climate change prevention/prep is costing us ungodly amounts of money in cleanup/repair and making us a less secure nation (catastrophic flooding just wiped out a good portion of stratcom headquarters and also destroyed 10% of our f-22 fleet just like that *snaps fingers*)

lack of adequate healthcare and disease prevention/prep is making the nation sicker and costing healthy americans even more in insurance.

gun violence costs americans billions in universally higher medical bills, lost wages, higher taxes for law enforcement and incarceration, and plummeting property values.

etc.

its easy to paint the republican party as the epitome of financial waste and government incompetence. theres decades of data to go on.

dems need to do a better job of appealing to peoples narrow self- interests and relaying exactly how all of this shit hurts *them* even when they arent directly involved.

------

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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151. "It don't think it's waste or incompetence, so much asit's corruption"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

The Dems won on it in...2006 I think?

Run on an anti-corruption bill, Repubs are sooo vunerable on it.



>they always tie it to an (often over-exaggerated or
>fabricated) effect on jobs, the economy, or our safety as a
>nation.
>
>when dems attack repub policy they usually do so from a
>standpoint of morality (which clearly a lot of americans dont
>give a fuck about...even the 'moral majority').
>
>dems need to pair every argument against a repub policy with
>an attack based on money and/or security.
>
>lack of climate change prevention/prep is costing us ungodly
>amounts of money in cleanup/repair and making us a less secure
>nation (catastrophic flooding just wiped out a good portion of
>stratcom headquarters and also destroyed 10% of our f-22 fleet
>just like that *snaps fingers*)
>
>lack of adequate healthcare and disease prevention/prep is
>making the nation sicker and costing healthy americans even
>more in insurance.
>
>gun violence costs americans billions in universally higher
>medical bills, lost wages, higher taxes for law enforcement
>and incarceration, and plummeting property values.
>
>etc.
>
>its easy to paint the republican party as the epitome of
>financial waste and government incompetence. theres decades
>of data to go on.
>
>dems need to do a better job of appealing to peoples narrow
>self- interests and relaying exactly how all of this shit
>hurts *them* even when they arent directly involved.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Mar-27-19 10:01 AM

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152. "2006? That’s mid term fam. "
In response to Reply # 151


          

If you meant 2016 then yeah... we almost won and maybe should’ve won without corruption but I think that corruption is always there... we just got lazy. By we I mean Hilldawg not going to the rust belt and fainting on 9/11.

shut up already, damn

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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154. "Yeah it was the last time Dem's retook the house. They won largely"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

based on the corruption of the GOP. Jack Abramoff, Foley, etc.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Wed Mar-27-19 03:35 PM

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155. "very well said"
In response to Reply # 150


          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Mar-26-19 08:39 PM

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149. "dem voters consistently come up with reasons not to vote."
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

repub voters consistently vote for the same reasons.

------

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Mar-27-19 10:03 AM

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153. "True. I think we vote tho but we waste too much time on trying to make"
In response to Reply # 149


          

everyone agree with our morality instead of just keeping it basic for the everyday voter.

shut up already, damn

  

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Marauder21
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Wed Mar-27-19 04:06 PM

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156. "Are people saying this for the primary or the general?"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

Because I definitely have people I will absolutely under no circumstances vote for in the primary, but I'm voting for whoever wins the nom in the general regardless of what kind of old bipartisan-fetishizing dipshit they are.

The primary is when we're supposed to be pushing candidates towards what we consider as close to perfect as we can get, so you should be picky right now (as long as you know what you're doing come November 2020.)

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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157. "I've decided, it's progressive all the way. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not necessarily the most progressive candidate, but the person will have to have a strong compelling progressive agenda. F this moderate Joe Biden bullshit, it's the same solution to the old answers.

Part of me coming around is acknowledging the failures of Obama, running Hillary was a mistake, and nominating Biden, Booker, Kabucher, Kamala Harris or any of the other moderate candidates would be Tripling Down on those mistakes.

I think this article pushed me over.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/opinion/republicans-democrats-2020-election.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Errol Walton Barrow
Member since Jul 02nd 2002
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Tue Sep-10-19 07:11 PM

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158. "Welcome to the club holmes."
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

Imma read the article later but progressive policies were never as pollyanna as the media made it out to be, especially in comparison to a number of countries.

-------
http://adevotedappraisal.tumblr.com - Essays, reviews, short stories and free writes on music, film and life around us.

  

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