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Subject: "Dred Scott 2017." Previous topic | Next topic
SoWhat
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Fri Oct-20-17 07:30 AM

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"Dred Scott 2017."


  

          

These motherfuckers have the audacity to stand in federal court and basically argue that an undocumented immigrant is not a person and therefore not entitled to due process or equal protection under the law. The Constitution protects those rights for all persons regardless of citizenship status. It also protects a woman's right to have an abortion without substantial interference. The fedz are substantially interfering with a 17 year old undocumented immigrant's decision to abort at (now) 15 weeks even after she got approval from a judge. They haven't yet cited Dred Scott (held that the Constitution didn't protect Blacks and overturned by the 13th and 14th Amendments) but they might as well. Bc to prevail the fedz have to convince a court that this woman is not a 'person' as contemplated by the Constitution.

Burn it all down.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/10/the_justice_department_s_radical_new_anti_abortion_stance_echoes_dred_scott.html

And save all of the hole-poking in the analogy. I know that undocumented immigrants don't have it as bad as slaves. We're still winning the oppression olympics even if this analogy is persuasive. Don't worry.

fuck you.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Where's the women's rights groups?
Oct 20th 2017
1
the story is still spreading.
Oct 20th 2017
3
      I hate this lazy government.
Oct 20th 2017
4
           i can't see any court siding w/the gov't on this
Oct 20th 2017
5
               
Oct 20th 2017
6
but CORPORATIONS are 'people' tho?
Oct 20th 2017
2
RE: Dred Scott 2017.
Oct 20th 2017
7
Ain't nobody asking the government to pay for it.
Oct 20th 2017
8
Can we talk about your anger for a sec?
Oct 21st 2017
9
this should have been an inbox
Oct 21st 2017
11
No. We can't.
Oct 21st 2017
12
Apologies
Oct 21st 2017
15
You say you mean well and I believe you.
Oct 21st 2017
14
      aint no other way at this point.
Oct 25th 2017
21
You knew this was coming, man, though it doesn't soften the blow
Oct 21st 2017
10
Thats why God created the courts.
Oct 21st 2017
13
Undocumented 17-Year-Old Must Delay Abortion, Court Rules (swipe)
Oct 22nd 2017
16
Seems like they also want to stage a citizenship fight
Oct 22nd 2017
17
Federal appeals court clears way for undocumented teen to get abortion
Oct 24th 2017
18
bout time.
Oct 24th 2017
19
Justice prevailed today for Jane Doe. She was able to get an abortion ea...
Oct 25th 2017
20
I'm just glad the DC Circuit did the right thing.
Oct 25th 2017
22

MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
22256 posts
Fri Oct-20-17 09:23 AM

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1. "Where's the women's rights groups?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

ACLU is dropping some lines, but the women's march convention is coming up and I don't hear from them.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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SoWhat
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Fri Oct-20-17 12:35 PM

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3. "the story is still spreading."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

fuck you.

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
22256 posts
Fri Oct-20-17 12:44 PM

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4. "I hate this lazy government. "
In response to Reply # 3
Fri Oct-20-17 12:45 PM by MEAT

  

          

Like their arguments are so intellectually lazy. We need this dude out of paint with quickness. Because idealogical judges will cosign some of this lazy shit to fit their agenda.
They really tried to argue that processing paperwork was facilitating the process.
It's some of the same lazy legalese tactics that they've used to stall marijuana sales in DC.

I can't stand the disengenous. Few things in life bother me more.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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SoWhat
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Fri Oct-20-17 12:50 PM

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5. "i can't see any court siding w/the gov't on this"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

b/c the law is so clear.

the Constitution was amended to clarify this point.

i can't believe they're trying it.

actually...i can. b/c this is all moving toward a Roe v Wade challenge. at least the GOP hopes that's where this is going.

fuck you.

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
22256 posts
Fri Oct-20-17 12:53 PM

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6. ""
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

They do a true disservice to the profession of law.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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infin8
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10401 posts
Fri Oct-20-17 09:39 AM

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2. "but CORPORATIONS are 'people' tho?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

man fuck all these nxggas.

everything is dumb.

IG: amadu_me

"...Whateva, man..." (c) Redman

  

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Willong
Member since Jun 08th 2009
240 posts
Fri Oct-20-17 01:17 PM

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7. "RE: Dred Scott 2017."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Sorry, but the government paying for someone’s abortion is not due process. It’s a government giveaway. Would depriving undocumented immigrants of Medicaid be considered denial of due process? No. Would depriving undocumented immigrants of a fair trial be considered denial of due process? Yes.

I actually find it far more disturbing that this Jane Doe is cooped up in a government shelter. If all the good liberals and progressives dedicated more energy to helping the undocumented instead of demanding the government do so, the world would be a much better place.

  

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SoWhat
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Fri Oct-20-17 08:06 PM

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8. "Ain't nobody asking the government to pay for it."
In response to Reply # 7
Fri Oct-20-17 08:08 PM by SoWhat

  

          

Just let her leave the federal facility to go have the abortion. The payment is a side issue. This is about her being allowed to go have the abortion.

And the issue has been decided - she has the right to have an abortion and the government cannot substantially interfere. The government is substantially interfering / they block her from leaving to go see her doctor to have the abortion.

It's clear.

fuck you.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Sat Oct-21-17 09:42 AM

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9. "Can we talk about your anger for a sec? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not at this or any thing in particular but in general. Because I mean we been posting on here over a decade now and we family ©Ike Moses the God. I've watched you online to have seen how that anger has just built up over the past year. I recognize what I see on here is a mere fraction of who you are but it is a little window from which these days I can only imagine. I been in that type of anger before. I'm still angry now and have to keep myself in check on the daily. It's not easy especially when there are triggers literally everywhere we look. So I really just want to check in and make sure you are good. That you're working to get to the other side of anger because I'd hate to see it consume you. I've seen that before and it ain't pretty. And you are a good cat. You, we, don't deserve this but we can't let use our own emotions to defeat us collectively or individually.

I hope this reads well because that's the intention. We are good. Their cracks are showing, we can't let that trigger us to show ours especially if we're doing the good work to mend them.

Peace fam.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35863 posts
Sat Oct-21-17 10:56 AM

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11. "this should have been an inbox"
In response to Reply # 9


          

cuz you cannot make assumptions about the levels of someones offline anger based on how they write online.

in the same way you can't assume someone is happy offline because all they post is positive shit online.

folks gotta stop with this shit.

d

  

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SoWhat
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154163 posts
Sat Oct-21-17 11:09 AM

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12. "No. We can't. "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>Not at this or any thing in particular but in general.
>Because I mean we been posting on here over a decade now and
>we family ©Ike Moses the God. I've watched you online to have
>seen how that anger has just built up over the past year. I
>recognize what I see on here is a mere fraction of who you are
>but it is a little window from which these days I can only
>imagine. I been in that type of anger before. I'm still angry
>now and have to keep myself in check on the daily. It's not
>easy especially when there are triggers literally everywhere
>we look. So I really just want to check in and make sure you
>are good. That you're working to get to the other side of
>anger because I'd hate to see it consume you. I've seen that
>before and it ain't pretty. And you are a good cat. You, we,
>don't deserve this but we can't let use our own emotions to
>defeat us collectively or individually.
>
>I hope this reads well because that's the intention. We are
>good. Their cracks are showing, we can't let that trigger us
>to show ours especially if we're doing the good work to mend
>them.
>
>Peace fam.
>
>█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
>Big PEMFin H & z's
>"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1
>thing, a musician." � Miles
>
>"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

fuck you.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Sat Oct-21-17 12:34 PM

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15. "Apologies "
In response to Reply # 12


  

          


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Sat Oct-21-17 12:28 PM

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14. "You say you mean well and I believe you."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Hell yeah you see me being angry. Bc I'm putting that out there. And shit - look around. There's reason to be angry. But I don't give this place all that I am. I'm more than angry. I appreciate the concern.

fuck you.

  

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Aeon
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43870 posts
Wed Oct-25-17 03:24 PM

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21. "aint no other way at this point. "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>Hell yeah you see me being angry. Bc I'm putting that out
>there. And shit - look around. There's reason to be angry. But
>I don't give this place all that I am. I'm more than angry. I
>appreciate the concern.

gotta be in attack dog mode, folks on every side are trying it real hard.

_

shakin your block with a 6 million dollar bop

_

www.davidevanmcdowell.com

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sat Oct-21-17 09:50 AM

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10. "You knew this was coming, man, though it doesn't soften the blow"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-21-17 09:52 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

The crazy thing to me is that we had this discussion maybe a year ago and a dude I know--HS classmate who later did a few tours in Afghanistan--was like "illegal immigrants don't get due process." He firmly believed this--this is a college educated person who served at a fairly high level in the military as well--and some people seemed to agree wholeheartedly with him. The majority of people corrected him but it was eye-opening, especially as I started lurking around the net and seeing a lot of similar "understandings."

Now we see that ignorance at the very highest level. Hardly surprising. This is Jeff "KKKeebler Elf" Sessions' America. Look at this Title VII shit, that was really flabbergasting.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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SoWhat
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Sat Oct-21-17 11:11 AM

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13. "Thats why God created the courts."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

So far the court is somewhat entertaining this but not giving in. The can was kicked down the road.

fuck you.

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2315 posts
Sun Oct-22-17 07:51 PM

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16. "Undocumented 17-Year-Old Must Delay Abortion, Court Rules (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/21/us/texas-immigrant-abortion-appeal.html

Undocumented 17-Year-Old Must Delay Abortion, Court Rules
By CHRISTINA CARONOCT. 21, 2017

An undocumented 17-year-old caught in a legal standoff with the federal government must further delay plans for an abortion after an appeals court ruled on Friday that the Department of Health and Human Services had 11 days to find a sponsor to take custody of the teenager.

The decision by the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit could put her health at risk, doctors say, especially now that she is about 15 weeks pregnant.

“While first-trimester abortion is over 10 times safer than childbirth, the risks gradually increase in the second trimester to those of childbirth,” Dr. Nancy L. Stanwood, the chief of family planning at the Yale School of Medicine, said in an email. Forcing her to wait, she added, “harms her physical health, period.”

Further complicating matters, the teenager only has about a month to get an abortion in Texas, where she is being held. The state has banned abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy unless there is a medical emergency.

The teenager, referred to as Jane Doe in court documents, found out she was pregnant last month after she was apprehended while entering the United States without her parents.

She decided to end her pregnancy, but Texas law requires a minor to get parental consent or a judicial waiver to do so. She obtained a waiver, but the government prevented her from going to any abortion-related appointments, the American Civil Liberties Union said in court documents, and forced her to visit a religiously affiliated crisis pregnancy center where she was asked to view a sonogram.

President Trump has worked to restrict abortions since his first days in office by expanding the so-called global gag rule, which withholds American funding from international organizations that discuss or perform abortions; taking aim at Planned Parenthood funding; and appointing several leaders who are anti-abortion, including E. Scott Lloyd, the director of the Office of Refugee Resettlement at the health department, and one of the defendants in the Jane Doe case.

The federal government said that it was not its role to facilitate abortion, and that the teenager still had the option of returning to her home country.

“Ms. Doe has options for leaving federal custody — either by requesting a voluntary departure to her home country (which the federal government is willing to expedite if requested) or by being placed in the custody of a sponsor,” the defendants stated in a memorandum on Tuesday. “Given these options, the government is not causing Ms. Doe to carry a pregnancy to term against her will.”

On Wednesday, a federal judge ordered the government to allow the teenager to get an abortion.

Tanya S. Chutkan, the United States District Court judge who initiated the temporary restraining order, said she was “astounded” by the government’s position.

“She can leave the country or she cannot get her abortion, those are her options?”

The government next argued for the right to appoint the teenager with a sponsor, which would release her from government custody, and said in court documents that the process of securing a sponsor would not unduly burden the teenager’s right to an abortion.

On Friday, the appeals court agreed.

The health department has until Oct. 31 to find a suitable sponsor; if it does, Jane Doe would be able to have an abortion. If she is not released to a sponsor by then, the government has the option of appealing once more.

The 11-day timeline to find a sponsor “seems far-fetched,” said Brigitte Amiri, one of the A.C.L.U. lawyers representing the teenager.

Sponsors are typically family members, according to the health department’s website, who help care for a child who has entered the United States illegally without their parents — often because the child is fleeing an abusive or violent situation.

The vetting process, which includes a background check, can take months, Ms. Amiri said, and earlier attempts to find a sponsor for Jane Doe were unsuccessful.

“They kicked the can down the road, and in this case they kicked the woman down the road,” Dr. Stanwood said. “They are just delaying her care to no end but their own ideology.”

The health department did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The teenager will be 16 weeks and five days pregnant at the end of October, according to the nonprofit legal organization Jane’s Due Process, which has been working with the A.C.L.U. If the appeals process continues into November, the teenager will reach the 20-week mark, which would prevent her from having an elective abortion in Texas.

The sooner the teenager can have the abortion, “the safer it will be for her,” said Dr. Hal C. Lawrence, the executive vice president of the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, who practiced obstetrics for nearly three decades.

As the uterus gets bigger, he added, the walls of the uterus get thinner, which increases the possibility of perforation and puts women at risk of additional blood loss during an abortion.

Health risks aside, delaying an abortion can cause emotional trauma.

“Women don’t just wake up one morning and decide they’re going to have an abortion,” Dr. Lawrence said. “And so to make her continue to struggle and be denied access to something which is legal — all that does is increase the psychological stress for her, and that’s not healthy.”

The United States has one of the highest rates of maternal mortality in the developed world, and abortion has been shown to be safer for women than childbirth.

The A.C.L.U. is considering several options, including further appeals.

For the teenager, the process has been exhausting, Ms. Amiri said.

“She talks about feeling very tired.”

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
22256 posts
Sun Oct-22-17 08:03 PM

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17. "Seems like they also want to stage a citizenship fight"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Siiiiiiiiiiiiggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
White supremacy is so exhausting.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2315 posts
Tue Oct-24-17 03:12 PM

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18. "Federal appeals court clears way for undocumented teen to get abortion"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/24/federal-appeals-court-clears-way-for-undocumented-teen-to-get-abortion-244115?lo=ap_a1

Federal appeals court clears way for undocumented teen to get abortion
By POLITICO STAFF 10/24/2017 03:20 PM EDT

A federal appeals court has ruled that an undocumented pregnant minor being held in a federally-funded shelter in Texas can receive an abortion.

The full bench of the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals overturned an earlier ruling last Friday from a three-judge panel of that court that gave the Trump administration until Oct. 31 to try to defuse the controversy by finding an adult sponsor who could take in the 17-year old pregnant girl.

On Sunday the girl’s lawyers had asked the full court to set aside the decision, saying that they’ve exhausted their options to find a sponsor. They said the delay brings the girl, now close to 16 weeks pregnant, dangerously close to the states’ 20-week limit on abortion.

The court’s full bench split along party lines with six Democrat appointed judges ruling in favor, three Republican appointees bitterly denouncing the decision and one Democratic appointee recusing herself.

The girl’s lawyers didn’t immediately respond to a question about how soon the girl could have the procedure. The girl, who is being held in the Rio Grande Valley, already had a state-mandated pre-counseling appointment last Thursday.

A Justice Department spokesman said the administration is reviewing the order. He had no immediate comment on whether federal officials will try to seek relief from the Supreme Court.

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Oct-24-17 04:06 PM

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19. "bout time."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

but the clock is ticking.

still - between DOJ and screwy lower court judges hundreds/thousands of women in federal custody have their reproductive rights jeopardized due to the Trump admin. this case is just one example. they're on this bullshit as a policy. it shouldn't take all of this litigation b/c really the issue is settled. currently. gov't doesn't have to pay for the abortions but women in federal custody have a right to abort - unless the gov't can show that an inmate having an abortion would cause some problem in the facility (som'n like that). but that's not even where they went here. they str8 up created an undue burden on this woman's decision to abort. damn.

fuck you.

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2315 posts
Wed Oct-25-17 03:13 PM

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20. "Justice prevailed today for Jane Doe. She was able to get an abortion ea..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

BREAKING: Justice prevailed today for Jane Doe. She was able to get an abortion early this morning. #JusticeforJane

https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/923196553434673154



Statement from Jane Doe.

Jane has gotten justice.

https://janesdueprocess.org/blog/jane-gotten-justice/

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Oct-25-17 05:34 PM

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22. "I'm just glad the DC Circuit did the right thing."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

And it's troubling but not surprising that it took all of that to reach the right result under the law.

fuck you.

  

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