inspired by this rag n bone cat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3wKzyIN1yk

Adele, Amy Winehouse, Sam Smith, Lukas Graham, Ed Sheeran, etc...

I mean, they're all good.... but I know the UK got a TON of blk ppl... don't tell me there aint any black soulful cat that don't deserve to blow up internationally....

mind u, u got the lite brite with a white parent all star that do get some shine internationally: Corrine bailey rae, emeli sandé, lianne la havas... looks like they all came from the Sade blueprint...

does the UK Music Industry have a paperbag test?

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

thus no soul or jazz for that matter and certainly no brits of African descent being able to create such a sound from that experience

white brits are able to produce an amy winehouse but blk brits with roots in Jamaica or Nigeria cant produce soulful artists?

c'mon now

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

for the above reasons. There is a direct progression from blues to rock to jazz to rap -- all of that is uniquely black experience in America not black experience in the UK. There is a completely different set of cultural factors and influences going on.

the fuck you talking about?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

*DANCEHALL AIR HORN*

seems like black folks over there are more into that and electro types of sounds

maybe they don't want to be in the shadow of US black folks?

maybe music companies keep them down and the white artists up? (would be my guess)

everything isn't about slavery or the history of racism.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I'll never understand this idea that slavery only existed in the United States.

among black folks there as opposed to R&B. That's my impression at least.

At least in the last 20 years or so.

It just doesn't have that soul/swing to it that I desire.

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

some of my online soccer buddies feed me new tracks to check out.

<--- Big Baller World Order

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

Stormzy, Skepta and Wiley. Bars ain't bad, but those fucking beats, man. Headache in 10 minutes or less. Those kinda beats are trash to me, man.

I did dig the flow and the bars tho.

if there's one UK album that could crossover internationally I'd say it was this album

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

i just dont ever see it popping hard over here. they got nice flows and beats you need subtitles to catch everything theyre saying. and not in a young thug "it doesnt matter what he's saying" way either.

<--- Big Baller World Order

who the fuck bumps that in the whip?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKNoUYr5wZc

Dego & Kaidi - Backchat For Toprock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPOYDqz0ntE

Hawk House - Tidal Tendencies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhOkRfhmwCk

To people like US, a record is a piece of history. A moment in time.
Most people don't get it.

This is why I hate streaming services....can't stay up on shit anymore...
The latest album I see from him on Google Play Music is from 2017 Love In Beats....which I totally missed somehow.



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

or some trip hop emo white shit...

but it's always some white person doing that good old soul for some reason.

Not sure what that's about.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

But ya'll don't give a shit

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

still dont get why the artists being named in the thread aint blowing up internationally like those white artists I named I nthe original post... can u confirm if they are at least getting the same numbers as the white soul artists within the UK?

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

You need something unique. You need to stand out.

probably goes something like that

IG: amadu_me

"...Whateva, man..." (c) Redman

Not sure what album the songs I listened to are on, but this girl sings over some really wack beats. I've long thought the same thing about Lianne La Havas: great vocals, terribly-boring backing music.

Maybe I'm just spoiled on US jazz/soul.

she was incredible live

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

But her voice is very distinct.

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

but of course you're right, there is something racial afoot

__

fairweather

guess Joy Denalane fits the lite brite thing, plus she's German ... also dope. one of my favorites is Shaun Escoffery



<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

Deeper
https://soundcloud.com/iamnobodi/deeper-featuring-emmavie#t=0:22

I Hope We Never Break Up
https://soundcloud.com/emmavie100/ihwnbu

No, Dont/Incomplete
https://soundcloud.com/alfamist/no-dont-incomplete#t=3:00

Are they obsessed? Or is that the only thing america will let through?

Emile Sande was basixally the biggest thing since adele on her first album... same exact set up as sam smith (before sam).. she sells millions in UK and barely does 250k here.

I think we have an issue with foreign black ppl

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

getting paste is pan handling to get what we have naturally

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

in fact, both are better than most american soul acts.

************************************************************

not even close

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

especially Amy

************************************************************

It's not solely a demographic issue but you have to keep in mind there's only about 1 to 2 million black people in the UK making up around 3% of the population. That's nothing compared to America. Around half of them are of west Indian heritage and half of them are of African heritage. So reggae is pretty big in comparison to soul or rnb. Also have to remember most of those black people immigrated to England during the 60's and 70's so there isn't a long history of black music there.

My SO was a black brit. Aside from reggae....her parents used to listen to alot of 'northern soul' which is a pretty good starting point to google for black british soul. Late 60's and onwards....It sounds alot like American rnb and was popular amongst british mods and skinheads.

Here's a pretty good playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB3bW6I5gEA&list=PLD7D13FBD8A0E7572

That scene led into disco and the changeover put more focus on the DJ and less focus on live music. Some have argued that this was a detrimental shift because American records took over and there was less need to create their own stuff. Still have to note Average White Band, Hot Chocolate and the Beegees were British.

There's a great documentary about Soul 2 Soul out there called "Jazzie B’s 1980s: From Dole to Soul" that has some racial context. Of course then there was the early 90's acid jazz scene with Incognito, The Brand New Heavies, etc.

Practically all those classic singles were released on american recordcompanies by american singers. It's essentially a british record-collector culture based on a reasonably recognizable sound (mainly the mid-60's Motown sound) where american songs and artists have become "famous" due to their status within that culture rather than the afro-american. It's still american music made by americans though.

The reggae subgenre known as "lovers rock" in the UK is a better example of a "homegrown" black genre based on outside influences.

The atmosphere in the post-industrial North during the 70s and 80s left a disenfranchised working-class population that needed a way of blowing off steam... clubnights like Twisted Wheel dug out forgotten classics and rarities from the US labels and gave them new life with a new audience.

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

That seems really strange then. There were black American singers making music specifically for a UK market? Did they KNOW that their music was gonna be heard mostly exclusively in the UK? Why would it even be called 'northern soul'? I'm guessing because they knew it was only gonna get distributed in the UK and not America?

The music was made for the american market. however, already during the mod-movement (before actually if you count tbe brits interest in obscure american blues like Robert Jobnson), tbere was an interest in more obscure american (and jamaican for tbat matter) black music amongst certain brits. bands were looking for songs to cover, hip mod dudes wanted to go beyond just the hits (and in the UK's predominantly white culture, soul wasn't *that* successful outside of Motown).

Anyway, the mods and other brits frequently didn't like the change in black music towards a more "album-oriented", jazzy, "funky" or psych-influenced sound and since they couldn't just listen to the same Motown hits over and over, there was an interest in finding frequently obscure singles (alternatively, regional american soul-hits that didn't hit nationally orinternationally)so they could keep the party going into the 70's and beyond; the term "northern" simply comes from the fact that clubs in the north of *england* tended to play this music and a culture developed there around it.

It's very similar to garage-rock; many (well, some) people were disillusioned by the changes in rock that ocurred during the psych- and prog- and heavy-eras; since they couldn't just play "Satisfaction" and "You really got me" over and over, people started to look towards the virtually thousands of obscure and/or local US rock singles released in 65-67 and in the process, the terms garage-rock and punk (yup!) were coined-ovbiously, those acts didn't regard themselves as garage-rock (practically an insult) during the 60's; like Nortern soul, it's a revisionist term applied to music made years before term existed. "Rare grooves" is another example.

I was working at a soul / funk reissue label and there were competitors putting out northern soul comps left and right. Many were not obviously British and I assumed that somehow the featured artists were all michigan, Ohio, Illinois based (hence northern). I couldn't believe such a widely popularized culture of reissue / rediscovery was completely removed from the music's geographic origins.

aforementioned artists. I don't know if there is an underground soul scene anymore. I don't know what happened to ppl like Tawiah etc. It's like there's no space for you if you're not making grime or rap.

……………….,,
http://gravalicious.tumblr.com/archive

"If you're not loving someone, you're wasting your time." - Dennis Brown

Very interesting topic... something I've been thinking of a lot and will dump some thoughts (more to come)

The majority of the artists you listed, Adele, Rag & Bone, Sam Smith, & Ed Sheeran aren't marketed as "Blue Eyed Soul". The black influence from these artists is kept silent in their success. Their appeal is that are they are no doubt talented, don't appear to be manufactured, and they don't look like popstars. Each act can be related to, and they look like the British audience that's buying their records. Also their fan base reaches to all ages, 10yrs to 80yrs old of a white audience. Amy Winehouse is the only one I think was different to this - she appealed to the Black audience (like myself)

Why aren't black singers doing the same? I've noticed with the White artists their singles have a similar mold, very simple harmonically and perfect for advertisements, and shows that need a backing to their 'uplifting moment montage' (I'm looking at you X Factor). Look at songs like a 'Stay with me', 'Human' or 'Chasing Pavements' and these songs have common themes which are played everywhere. Black artists in the UK don't have these songs under their belt to push them to that international level

Err what about Labyrinth and Emeli?

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

It was probably posted here.
Anyway, she said she could never have gotten where she was if she stayed in the U.K.

http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
instagram:@3rdworldview
Blessed be the Lord /who believe any mess they read up on the message board

https://youtu.be/cocS8e0551M

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

If you need any help, don't. Hesitate to ask.

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

BAN DEM !

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

Shit minus well be literal mumble mouth rap, because I understood 1/50 words.



Edit: I'm keep it real, this shit is trash yo. lol. Fuck this shit.

is well worth your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9KxqBiE_YQ

https://oceanwisdom.bandcamp.com/album/chaos-93

Been skimming through some interviews with the author of a new book HIt Makers... and he talks about Raymond Loewy and his M.A.Y.A principle

People dont want new... they want slightly repackaged familiar things... Derek Thompson (the author) talks about the shift to actual data when soundscan came into the picture (and eventually the people meter later on) showed that people just want to listen to pretty much what they like over and over again.

Loewy (who designed everything from logos and cars to the shuttle capsule) used his Most Advanced Yet Acceptable philosophy.

When we talk "blue-eyed soul" I think we are falling into the same principle. The music is extremely familiar YET plot-twist the singer is white.

This isnt just used there either. Thompson also argues that The Weeknd for instance found success when he pushed himself to sound MORE like MJ but Plot-twist he is singing about coke and strippers.

Ariana Grande is also a benefit of this. Her first album was basically Mariah Carey lite singing Brandy songs with classic hip hop samples. If Jordin Sparks would've dropped those songs (she co-wrote them) it would've been TOO familiar TOO obvious.

But lil ol Ariana.. thats new

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

<==Hawtastic.

Black brits are missing something. When they get it, it is usually with the help of some Americanness.

Omar is the only artist I sort of like.

Black Brits might have us beat on the acting tip though!

Rise & Shine
Thrive & Grind
Heart & Mind

Don't know what happened.

It's a little bizarre.

They are consumers of music but not too many bother actually making anything beyond regurgitating whatever's happening in the US.

They're just bland as fuck when it comes to pretty much anything, music, politics, business.

It could be the case that it's a lot harder for Black Brits to have a shared musical history since their heritage(s) are so varied, but you would think that would seed more innovation than what we've seen so far.

I'm sure some will take offence at this opinion, but that's what I see.

A lot of US "Neo-Soul" took its blueprint from the UK:

Soul II Soul - Back to life, Keep on Movin
Loose Ends
Brand New Heavies
Des'Ree
Incognito
Omar
I could go on and on.

This was before D'Angelo, Maxwell, Erykah etc.

Just because the current generation doesn't seem that interested in soul music (compared to Hip-Hop/Grime/AfroBeats, for instance) doesn't mean they're "bland as fuck".

>It's a little bizarre.
>
>They are consumers of music but not too many bother actually
>making anything beyond regurgitating whatever's happening in
>the US.
>
>They're just bland as fuck when it comes to pretty much
>anything, music, politics, business.
>
>It could be the case that it's a lot harder for Black Brits to
>have a shared musical history since their heritage(s) are so
>varied, but you would think that would seed more innovation
>than what we've seen so far.
>
>I'm sure some will take offence at this opinion, but that's
>what I see.

__________________
Okayplaying since '00

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

jesus christ.

but took time to shit on black brits and black brit music.

the same black brits that have invented 6-7 genres of music/movements in the same time span that hip-hop/R&B was the sole and dominant output of black american youth. just because you don't like something does not make it bad music.

to answer your question, the UK record industry signs black, white (loads) and mixed looking soul-influenced artists. white people in the US embrace their white UK cousins when they come across the pond. black people in the US considerably more insular in their listening habits. (Maybe they have enough music of their own) But this is not new. You should read up on Bob Marley and his label's frustration with cracking the black American market while he was alive.

So as a black UK soul artist, your American market is limited to adventurous okayplayery types. Which is cool cache but not enough to make any dent in the mainstream. UK Black artists that unashamedly bypass the black cosign will have a better chance of mainstream success in the US. But is that the type of success they envision? No. They come in to the US market getting remixes, touring and collaborating with their Af-Am peers in hopes of cracking that market. But mostly just end up a novelty.

On a side note. Can we name one international black act who managed to crack the African-American market specifically? Like black people love him/her yet white people barely know or mess with the artist?

'Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. ~Victor Hugo'

Floetry,
Estelle...

Shit even Amy W. all broke in US with US Producers and (sensibilities tbh). They were attached to a US scene/sound at the time not a UK one...

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

I was asking about artists with minimal white acceptance but sizable black audience.
Floetry counts. Though they never became HUGE.

You are right I never read the last sentence... lol

My point was that Floetry and Estelle weren't perceived (in the US) as international per say.

Their promo and sound came out of the US. They were connected to homegrown movements. They are very different than Labyrinth, Emeli, Tinie or Jorja crossing over to a black audience here.

I dont know the make up of her crowd but Corinne might be the last to connect with a black audience first. I am not sure where Lianne la Havas falls either. I dont really know who goes to her US shows now.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

Their career was short lived though.
Estelle had one song and a hot 15 minutes in the states.
I don't think she can do full tours in the states just based on that.

>but took time to shit on black brits and black brit music.
>
>the same black brits that have invented 6-7 genres of
>music/movements in the same time span that hip-hop/R&B was the
>sole and dominant output of black american youth. just because
>you don't like something does not make it bad music.
>
>to answer your question, the UK record industry signs black,
>white (loads) and mixed looking soul-influenced artists. white
>people in the US embrace their white UK cousins when they come
>across the pond. black people in the US considerably more
>insular in their listening habits. (Maybe they have enough
>music of their own) But this is not new. You should read up on
>Bob Marley and his label's frustration with cracking the black
>American market while he was alive.
>
>So as a black UK soul artist, your American market is limited
>to adventurous okayplayery types. Which is cool cache but not
>enough to make any dent in the mainstream. UK Black artists
>that unashamedly bypass the black cosign will have a better
>chance of mainstream success in the US. But is that the type
>of success they envision? No. They come in to the US market
>getting remixes, touring and collaborating with their Af-Am
>peers in hopes of cracking that market. But mostly just end up
>a novelty.
>
>On a side note. Can we name one international black act who
>managed to crack the African-American market specifically?
>Like black people love him/her yet white people barely know or
>mess with the artist?
>
>
>
>
>

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

Not just white people, but everyone including
other black people. Just part of the system.
So Joss Stone gets best reggae album, Eminem
gets mentioned in everyone rap conversation
known to man (even 'best ad libs' on here,
somehow, and notice white ppl did that lol).
White folks wanna see their own do it even
if black folks created it or are known for it.
While black folks are trained to hate ourselves
so much that many of us will get around white
folks and brag about all the white artists we
listen to just to fit in in a WS system.

~
~
~
~
~
Ya whole shit is skewed nigga!

Dont even know how this post got THIS FAR before this simple
truth was mentioned. Ninjaz tap-danced around it and tried ta
rocket-science up a very elemental colonialistic equation:

1. Infiltrate
2. Appropriate
3. Marginalize the originator/progenitor

That simple strategem is what had euro-americans saying dumb
shit like, "Benny Goodman is the king of swing" or, "Elvis is the king of rock n roll". All of which were NEVER true.

The euro-colonial-machine(WS) is at the root of all that.

https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!