Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby General Discussion topic #13140867

Subject: "Xplain like I'm 3 years old: Ignorant but honest question about slavery" Previous topic | Next topic
Firecracker
Member since Feb 20th 2007
1892 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 04:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Xplain like I'm 3 years old: Ignorant but honest question about slavery"
Tue Apr-04-17 04:14 AM by Firecracker

  

          

How come Europe were able to overtake and transport so many slaves from Africa in ancient times? What in history brought about the advanced developments in weaponry or whatever that caused these caucasian intruders to be able to carry out such horrible deeds for close to one thousand years?

When and how in history was this «upper hand» in technology, weaponry and/or society brought about that enabled this to go down the way it did?

I know this question is dumb and poorly phrased but I'm reading a book on the Libyan boat refugees and they're still traveling by the same trans-Saharan route that was used for slave trades for almost a millenium. And I wonder when did the world evolve from (ALL of) our ancestors chillin in the seas and trees to this division in race, which then later advanced to the point that certain European countries were able to carry out this shit and strongarm a whole continent for almost a 1000 years

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
All good questions
Apr 04th 2017
1
Thanks
Apr 04th 2017
8
It's all about the money
Apr 04th 2017
2
"chillin in the seas and trees"
Apr 04th 2017
3
Guns Germs Steel might be the book on you on this point
Apr 04th 2017
4
^^^^This is s a good look.
Apr 04th 2017
5
and i think this was a doc on Netflix
Apr 04th 2017
6
Appreciate it, looked up the doc - watching it after work tonight
Apr 04th 2017
9
Fantastic book.
Apr 05th 2017
18
i think the game changed for them after the plague
Apr 04th 2017
7
They were colonizing/killing one another & others
Apr 05th 2017
24
      in regards to colonizing...where/when exactly?
Apr 05th 2017
25
           Anglos vs Saxons vs Gaul, vs Italians, vs Goths vs Huns vs
Apr 05th 2017
27
                thanks...yeah i wasn't considering them in the same vein but i
Apr 05th 2017
31
3 years old tho?
Apr 04th 2017
10
In addition to GunGerms&Steel, as Reg mentions above, this series...
Apr 04th 2017
11
a lot of violence is backed by silver, not lead. the lead is always ther...
Apr 04th 2017
12
Please read Gun, Germs and Steel
Apr 04th 2017
13
thanks for the book rec. gonna read Guns, Germs, Steel.
Apr 04th 2017
14
There weren't that many slaves brought from Africa...
Apr 04th 2017
15
That book is thorough.... I'm about up to america's independence
Apr 05th 2017
16
Word. The authors said they spent 5 yrs doing nothing but
Apr 05th 2017
17
AMAZING book
Apr 05th 2017
19
do you mean to the US? or period? cuz errr ummmm
Apr 05th 2017
20
^^^^^
Apr 05th 2017
21
To so-called North America specifically.
Apr 05th 2017
29
About 300,000 to the US. About 12.5 million overall.
Apr 05th 2017
30
Edit: 300k is # that left Africa. About 250k acutally arrived in US.
Apr 05th 2017
34
they weren't bred, they replaced
Apr 06th 2017
38
      not disagreeing but refusal doesn't mean much when you're a slave
Apr 06th 2017
39
that many?
Apr 05th 2017
33
Internal conflicts, divide and conquer, political organization (Berlin 1...
Apr 05th 2017
22
Copy and paste divide and conquer in the Americas
Apr 05th 2017
23
great post though you killed my enthusiasm with "columbia"
Apr 05th 2017
26
I made a mistake
Apr 05th 2017
28
I'd recommend the Revolutions Podcast season on Haiti
Apr 05th 2017
32
      Thanks I definitely will check it out
Apr 06th 2017
35
           Toussaint is an interesting case
Apr 07th 2017
42
Continued mastery of shipbuilding post Rome and studied gunpowder
Apr 06th 2017
36
Religion was also a major factor. European Jews, Xtians, and Muslims
Apr 06th 2017
37
Not really. The Africans who sold off other Africans to those 3 groups
Apr 06th 2017
41
      those Africans didn't promote the trade via doctrine and ideaology
Apr 08th 2017
43
evil men & "naive" families selling others/children in africa right now
Apr 06th 2017
40
Does anyone know who the tribes were that were captured and traded?
Apr 08th 2017
44

denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 06:21 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "All good questions"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-04-17 06:28 AM by denny

          

Firstly, the characterization of our ancestors 'chilling in the seas and trees' is problematic. My worldview is that human civilization was always built from slavery or forced labor, tribal warfare, land and resource disputes and exploitation. It's not like the world was a peaceful place before European colonialism. Skin color and physical attributes like facial features were used as a basis in distinguishing social hierarchies and slavery/exploitation thousands of years before Christ was born.

There's undoubtedly many people on this board who've studied this in-depth so I'm just as keen to hear some perspectives as you. My impression is that the Trans-atlantic slave trade is differentiated from previous forms of slavery mostly for it's scale and sophistication. It was big enterprise commerce with legal and economic infrastructure. Before this time...indentured servitude was woven into cultural fabrics. The Europeans turned it into big business on a macro level that was highly organized. Also...European slavery took on a new form commonly called 'chattel slavery' which meant that a slave was a piece of property that could be bought, sold, inherited and it was a LIFETIME designation. The traditional forms of slavery before that time were less rigid. They weren't necessarily life-long sentences and they were often employed for debts or the spoils of a successful war or punishments for crime.

The question of How they did it? That's what I'd like to hear more about. Like all forms of imperialism....the Europeans exploited pre-existing conflicts between different ethnicities. I'd be interested in hearing from someone who's studied this at length...but I would guess we have to remember that there was not a unifying 'black' identity amongst African people. So from our current perspective we say 'How did only a few Europeans get away with doing this while being so outnumbered?' That presumes a shared identity amongst different African ethnicities which wasn't applicable back then. My impression is that this is much bigger factor than advanced weaponry.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Firecracker
Member since Feb 20th 2007
1892 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 10:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "Thanks"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          


Good answer

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
71083 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 08:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "It's all about the money"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I started watching Taboo and they do a good job of showing the mindset of one of the shipping companies in England.

We weren't people, we were cargo. Like spice, sugar, etc...

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
46394 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 08:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. ""chillin in the seas and trees""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yo, please go watch this

http://www.pbs.org/show/africas-great-civilizations/


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BigReg
Charter member
62390 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 09:02 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
4. "Guns Germs Steel might be the book on you on this point"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-04-17 09:03 AM by BigReg

  

          

>How come Europe were able to overtake and transport so many >slaves from Africa in ancient times? What in history brought >about the advanced developments in weaponry or whatever that >caused these caucasian intruders to be able to carry out such >horrible deeds for close to one thousand years?


Seen by dozens of wearing personality frames in Looks like PBS did a documentary on it as opposed to reading that long ass book

http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/


Long story short (did I say the book was needlessly long) harsher climate/less resources forced Europe to push forward warlike tech and see natural resources as the ultimate commodity since they had none. That said, and Buddy discusses above, don't sleep on Ancient african cilvizations...the big leap forward happened during the middle ages into the industrial era when shit really got real environment wise for the so called white man (c) with "Germs" totally upending their way of life and the leap forwards in war tech (the "Guns" and "Steel" part)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
46394 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 09:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "^^^^This is s a good look. "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 09:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "and i think this was a doc on Netflix"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Firecracker
Member since Feb 20th 2007
1892 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 10:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "Appreciate it, looked up the doc - watching it after work tonight"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


Thanks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
3306 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 04:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "Fantastic book."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>>How come Europe were able to overtake and transport so many
>>slaves from Africa in ancient times? What in history brought
>>about the advanced developments in weaponry or whatever that
>>caused these caucasian intruders to be able to carry out such
>>horrible deeds for close to one thousand years?
>
>
>Seen by dozens of wearing personality frames in Looks like PBS
>did a documentary on it as opposed to reading that long ass
>book
>
>http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/
>
>
>Long story short (did I say the book was needlessly long)
>harsher climate/less resources forced Europe to push forward
>warlike tech and see natural resources as the ultimate
>commodity since they had none. That said, and Buddy discusses
>above, don't sleep on Ancient african cilvizations...the big
>leap forward happened during the middle ages into the
>industrial era when shit really got real environment wise for
>the so called white man (c) with "Germs" totally upending
>their way of life and the leap forwards in war tech (the
>"Guns" and "Steel" part)
>

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 09:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "i think the game changed for them after the plague"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

them = yt folks

after that...they been on some by any means

but yeah...weapons...disease...manifest destiny...etc

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
30565 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 12:41 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
24. "They were colonizing/killing one another & others"
In response to Reply # 7


          

waaay before the bubonic plague/black plague, and during and after the plague.



Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Just trying to share the world - www.JySbr.net

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 12:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "in regards to colonizing...where/when exactly? "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

other than the Roman Empire/Alexander the Great n em
I can't really think of anything else on a similar scale

maybe the huns...but idk if I would consider what they did in the same vein

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15696 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 01:40 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "Anglos vs Saxons vs Gaul, vs Italians, vs Goths vs Huns vs"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

vs vs vs

their greatest tool is political organization for the colonization of other people. The so called world wars were their in fighting over the spoils of their colonization.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 02:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "thanks...yeah i wasn't considering them in the same vein but i "
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

get it

I still think the European approach/mentality/psychology changed afterwards

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13078 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 10:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "3 years old tho?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Cam
Charter member
13267 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 11:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "In addition to GunGerms&Steel, as Reg mentions above, this series..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

From PBS and Skip Gates, Africa's Great Civilizations - http://www.pbs.org/show/africas-great-civilizations/
Might also provide some insight for you, as it really delves into the majesty of the entire continent, providing a framework for the origins of Europe's "Scramble for Africa".

(All parts of the series are available for free on the PBS website.)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 12:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "a lot of violence is backed by silver, not lead. the lead is always ther..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

dafriquan
Charter member
24695 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 01:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "Please read Gun, Germs and Steel"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It does not explain everything but it captures 80% of what you just asked about.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

PROMO
Charter member
26661 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 01:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
14. "thanks for the book rec. gonna read Guns, Germs, Steel. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13420 posts
Tue Apr-04-17 11:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "There weren't that many slaves brought from Africa..."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-04-17 11:45 PM by Boogie Stimuli

          

One of the biggest lies we're told is that
"millions of slaves were brought from Africa."
The truth is that the slave breeding industry
is what created more slaves.
A great book on that subject is "The America
Slave Coast" by Ned and Constance Sublette.
Actually I highly recommend that book.
(It's probably much more advanced reading than
a 3 yr old can handle tho lol, but do tell them
the truth you find it.)
Btw, here's a quote from the beloved American,
Thomas Jefferson in reference to slavery.

"I know of no error more consuming to an estate
than stocking farms with men almost exclusively.
I consider a woman who brings a child every
two years as more profitable than the best man
of the farm. What she produces is an addition to
the capital, while his labors disappear in mere
consumption."

Please note that he uses the word "stock" there
as if to reference livestock.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Rjcc
Charter member
93738 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 12:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
16. "That book is thorough.... I'm about up to america's independence"
In response to Reply # 15


          

I can't recommend it highly enough.

I learned more about European history from that book than I ever imagined.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13420 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 02:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "Word. The authors said they spent 5 yrs doing nothing but "
In response to Reply # 16


          

putting it together.
It really shows.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15880 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 06:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "AMAZING book"
In response to Reply # 15


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
41077 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 09:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "do you mean to the US? or period? cuz errr ummmm "
In response to Reply # 15
Wed Apr-05-17 09:28 AM by ambient1

  

          

down in the Caribbean...brazil...etc...I don't think they were 'bred'

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15880 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 09:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 20


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13420 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 01:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "To so-called North America specifically."
In response to Reply # 20


          

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
4418 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 01:57 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "About 300,000 to the US. About 12.5 million overall."
In response to Reply # 20
Wed Apr-05-17 01:59 PM by shamus

  

          

Estimates courtesy of the Voyages: Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database
http://www.slavevoyages.org/assessment/estimates

This is an estimate between the years of 1501 - 1875, by multiple European Nations to multiples places in the Americas.

"Although the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database includes all slave voyages that have been documented up to now, it cannot claim to be complete. Records of many voyages have disappeared, in some cases irretrievably, while other documents remain to be discovered in public and private archives. The “Estimates,” on the other hand, provide an educated guess of how large the slave trade actually was. Altogether, the estimates are about 25 percent higher than unadjusted numbers in the main database. They raise the final totals to over 12,500,000 Africans forced to undertake the Middle Passage and around 10,700,000 who completed it, the largest forced migration in modern history."
http://www.slavevoyages.org/assessment/


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
4418 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 03:38 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "Edit: 300k is # that left Africa. About 250k acutally arrived in US."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

12.5 mill is # that left Africa. About 10.7 mill is estimate of those that actually disembarked in the Americas.


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
GirlChild
Charter member
55984 posts
Thu Apr-06-17 01:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "they weren't bred, they replaced"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

a lot of plantation owners complained about slave women refusing to "breed," and self-inflicted abortions were common.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Thu Apr-06-17 01:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "not disagreeing but refusal doesn't mean much when you're a slave"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16483 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 03:01 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "that many?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

just want to understand the logic behind the wording being used....

for you exactly how many would it need to be to quantify as "that many"?

say it wasn't 10+million (see) and only 300K (the number mentioned in another reply)....300K isn't a lot (enough)?

for grins, consider the comparison to the population of Europeans who came over

check this:

Over the period of the Atlantic Slave Trade, from approximately 1526 to 1867, some 12.5 million slaves had been shipped from Africa, and 10.7 million had arrived in the Americas. The Atlantic Slave Trade was likely the most costly in human life of all of long-distance global migrations.

The first Africans forced to work in the New World left from Europe at the beginning of the sixteenth century, not from Africa. The first slave voyage direct from Africa to the Americas probably sailed in 1526.

The volume of slaves carried off from Africa reached thirty thousand per year in the 1690s and eighty-five thousand per year a century later. More than eight out of ten Africans forced into the slave trade made their journeys in the century and a half after 1700.

By 1820, nearly four Africans for every one European had crossed the Atlantic. About four out of every five females that traversed the Atlantic were from Africa.

The majority of enslaved Africans were brought to British North America between 1720 and 1780. The decade 1821 to 1830 still saw over 80,000 people a year leaving Africa in slave ships. Well over a million more – one tenth of the volume carried off in the slave trade era – followed within the next twenty years.

Africans carried to Brazil came overwhelmingly from Angola. Africans carried to North America, including the Caribbean, left from mainly West Africa.

Well over 90 percent of enslaved Africans were imported into the Caribbean and South America. Only about 6 percent of African captives were sent directly to British North America. Yet by 1825, the US had a quarter of blacks in the New World."

source: https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/slavery-and-anti-slavery/resources/facts-about-slave-trade-and-slavery

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15696 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 10:06 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "Internal conflicts, divide and conquer, political organization (Berlin 1..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Apr-05-17 10:33 AM by Musa

  

          

Europeans were on the coast of Africa especially west Africa from mid 1400s till late 1800s before they were able to get 50 miles inside of coast.

Ethnic conflicts between groups is nothing new its called divide an conquer. Benin kingdom along with Ki Congo were notorious slave traders and the Ashanti. The fought neighboring groups and sold them to Europeans.

The Zulu for their great military skill cleared Southern Africa in what was called the Mfecane(scattering or forced dispersal) of other ethnic groups and unintentionally left it open for Europeans.

NO big EUROPEAN army came in and colonized African nations, not even in Sudan and Egypt they always used mercenaries, local conflicting groups and recruited them. The British rifle regiments in modern day Nigeria were 90% African with the 10% being European generals.

Europeans were a beastly people and for all the so called technological advancement their "old world" diseases were the determining factor in clearing out many of the so called indigenous Americans.

and like Boogie Stimuli said breeding humans in the western colonies was really the cause for the numbers in the Western colonies. Less than 5% of the people stolen from Africa came to the USA mainland a majority were transported before 1700s to South America especially the former Portuguese colony currently known as Brazil.

The USA gained a strong hold on the slave trade from Portuguese and Spanish and implemented their breeding techniques. The British pushed for the abolishment of slavery not because of a conscious because of how dangerous and pricey it had become. The British were going to abolish slavery in their colonies.

The American revolution was not really about taxes but slavery too.

Also the "dominance" these European countries currently have only comes from the agreement in treaties and laws/paper plus ethnic/tribal conflicts other groups cannot get past.

The biggest baddest EUROPEAN ARMY of its time NEAPOLEAN and his french army got their asses handed to the by a small island that was called Hispanola (Haiti).

In the USA revolutionary war the British recruited roughly 17,000 "Africans" to help them fight against the American colonist.

The USA went to war with BLACK maroons for over 50 years in what is misnomer the Seminole wars. Many "Africans" ran to Florida which was a Spanish colony and warring against the British.

Africans and "natives" liberated many of the colonies see MEXICO and COLUMBIA.

The Confederate army with less technological advancement was winning or at least coming to a draw with the UNION army until 200,000 plus "Africans" joined the UNION and kicked the shit out of the UNION.

for all the military might the only true advantage europeans have had is playing on divide and conquer, political organization, disease, and our agreement with their political ideals.

thee end.





<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15696 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 10:42 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "Copy and paste divide and conquer in the Americas"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

Cut and paste this scenario in the Americas because the slave trade actually started here and different ethnic groups were in conflict siding with different european groups when it "benefited" them see the French and "Indian" war over colonial rule in the USA. Many indigenous groups joined with the British to fight the French colonist.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 01:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "great post though you killed my enthusiasm with "columbia""
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15696 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 01:46 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "I made a mistake"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

I don't know why I said Columbia tho Africans were pivotal in battling the Spanish and freeing the country from colonization.

Thanks.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
18007 posts
Wed Apr-05-17 03:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
32. "I'd recommend the Revolutions Podcast season on Haiti"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

http://www.revolutionspodcast.com/2015/12/401-saint-domingue.html

Because divide and conquer was certainly L'Overture's route to success in casting off French control of the island.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15696 posts
Thu Apr-06-17 12:14 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "Thanks I definitely will check it out"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

from what I know i thought Toussaint's motto was your either anti colonization/slavery or your the enemy. The French used their mixed "class" closer to French and sympathizers as a sort of social stratification.

Also from what I read in Black Jacobins Toussaint's downfall was he wanted to be accepted by the Frenchmen rather than keeping a healthy skepticism of them trusting them enough to meet with them in private causing his capture and death.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
18007 posts
Fri Apr-07-17 08:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
42. "Toussaint is an interesting case"
In response to Reply # 35
Fri Apr-07-17 08:29 AM by magilla vanilla

  

          

Because he started out going along to get along, and Rigaud and the other slave leaders inland considered him practically a white dude. Although the way Haiti broke from colonization wasn't purely on racial lines- more on class lines.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Thu Apr-06-17 12:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "Continued mastery of shipbuilding post Rome and studied gunpowder "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

once they established a trade route into China. That brought about muskets and cannons and then once slavery took hold in the Americas fear of a justified and still long over due reprisal from the people they were abusing led to the development of rifles and handguns.

That's how the technology advanced in order to keep the abuse going

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Thu Apr-06-17 12:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "Religion was also a major factor. European Jews, Xtians, and Muslims"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

were all prominent players in the trade at the highest levels.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18110 posts
Thu Apr-06-17 07:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "Not really. The Africans who sold off other Africans to those 3 groups"
In response to Reply # 37
Thu Apr-06-17 07:40 PM by Shaun Tha Don

          

and profited from slavery hardly practiced any of those 3 religions.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Sat Apr-08-17 09:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "those Africans didn't promote the trade via doctrine and ideaology"
In response to Reply # 41
Sat Apr-08-17 09:34 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

and are trading and selling the same thing? Not sure how you can disagree when the Pope of that day has written statements completely condoning the trade as Gods will

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
14614 posts
Thu Apr-06-17 04:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
40. "evil men & "naive" families selling others/children in africa right now "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and all other parts of the world, honestly

so the supply never dried up, just the demand was outlawed.
if there are buyers, there will be sellers.

explaining it to a 3 year old, i'd mention it wasnt africans selling each other to europeans (how we see it now), as much as it was country A selling war prisoners/generational enemies from country B to traders/pirates from country C. and then raids/kidnappings to keep the supply going.


as for tactical, technical, technological advances
europe had 500 years of practice in warfare and subjugation in their quests for power
and african nations were ripe for division and manipulation in their internal quests for power

another common misleading thought is that "europe enslaved all of africa" in the sense of some white dudes steamrolling thru an entire continent, when really they never made it far inland. to this day some places in the interior talk like they barely knew slavery happened, like it was just a rumor of something far far away



)))--####---###--(((

bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Sat Apr-08-17 09:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "Does anyone know who the tribes were that were captured and traded? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby General Discussion topic #13140867 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com