While forcing women to wear bathing suits bothers me, I am having a hard time getting worked up about not allowing people to don full-face coverings in schools, court rooms, and administrative buildings.

https://anotherbeautifulday.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/burka.jpg

It's funny I went to law school with a french girl who was shocked to see crucifix, yamakules, turbans and muslim garb in classrooms.


I get it religious freedom ya ya ya but is that unconditional? What if your religious tradition is rooted in sexism and misogyny? No one has an issue with banning female mutilation as part of religious ceremonies right?


There is a line, and it is somewhat arbitrary but where do you draw it?


I am just thinking out loud and can be convinced otherwise with a good argument, but right about now I can safely say you won't hear any outrage from me regarding this for now.

Edit: I should have mentioned that this post was inspired by the ban proposed in Germany so I get the constitutional issues here in the states.

http://www.vox.com/world/2016/12/6/13854214/germany-angela-merkel-burqa-ban

Poll result (23 votes) It's wrong to impinge on those people's religious freedom. (18 votes) Vote Govt. has a limited right to ban certain religious practices antithetical to our values. (4 votes) Vote I don't care either way. (1 votes) Vote

and yes banning them is unconstitutional.

fuck you.

>and yes banning them is unconstitutional.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

if those white ppl are actually concerned w/women being mistreated by being forced to wear __ then they should offer those women help in a manner that won't jeopardize the women's safety.

but otherwise they're doing the same thing they're decrying - controlling what women wear.

fuck you.

We already DO control what people wear.

try to keep up.

the ppl who want to ban burkas often say they want to do so out of concern for women's clothing being controlled by men. but by banning burkas those ppl are doing the same thing they claim to decry.

see it?

fuck you.

it makes NO sense to expose the WOMEN to criminal liability. Instead the ppl who are allegedly forcing women to wear burkas should face criminal liability.

fuck you.

This is about our public institutions...wherein we already enforce dress-codes. Teachers aren't allowed to wear all sorts of different clothes in the classroom....bikinis, s and m gear, hobo outfits, the list could be endless. Adding burkas to that is not some sort of infringement of religious expression. A public school probably wouldn't let a male teacher dress up like the pope neither.

I had more than one who wore a yarmulke.

This is not about public institution respect its about fear of and intolerance toward Muslim practitioners - especially Muslim women. Own that shit.

fuck you.

They islamaphobic too?

In fact...even associating burkas with islam is highly problematic. How many muslim people have you talked about burkas with?

Again - the women wearing burkas shouldn't be penalized. If you white ppl are that concerned then offer HELP.

fuck you.

Not because they hate muslims. They ARE muslims. They've done it to try to crackdown on the oppression of women.

Especially if those women have been forced to wear the burka.

fuck you.

and it's origins.

If you are suggesting above that muslims who don't like the burka are 'self-hating' or somehow ignoring their own traditions than you really need to learn more about it. That would be like saying black people who don't do the paper bag test are self-hating and ignoring their own ancestral traditions. Both false and highly offensive.

That analogy works because the burka is new. It's not some sort of ancestral tradition. Also...it has no place in the lives of the vast majority of muslims.

k.

fuck you.

Would we be 'punishing' them by disallowing it?

that they can never understand.
You don't know what that shit means to us. You don't know what that shit means to them. You're not us. Stop it.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

makes me wonder how people in IR deal with these types of conversations.

Can't imagine my wife bringing up the paper bag test at Thanksgiving.

Take yo ass to the kids table...lol

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

and has made at least 3 tour apologies for saying shit that was clearly not his place to say. I don't make tour apologies.

I made that analogy to show people that the Burka is not some sort of ancient muslim tradition. It's a new, modern practice that is considered to be regressive amongst the LARGE majority of muslims. Much like the paper bag test is for black people. Criticizing the burka is no more islamaphobic as criticizing the paper-bag test is anti-black. And that needed to be said here because the liberal confusion is being caused by an ignorance about the cultural meaning and context of the burka.

foh.
the fuck is a tour apology?
you clearly think i'm someone else.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

I don't apologize for my analogy. I hope my analogy might give some people who don't live amongst muslims some perspective.

Nah, jackass, obviously.
You need jump on that Cranes in the Sky remix though
"I whitesplain it away... when I offend people of color..."

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

It places the burden of limiting an oppressive sexist practice on the back of the oppressed women and not the men who are doing the oppression.

I think you are right the right first step would be allow blocking men from making women to wear burkas and supporting women who attempt to use this law to get away from oppressive men.

The other arugments in this post are trash.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

They will lose their job if its against the dress code of the school. They will not go to jail for it however and they can get another job.

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

I'd say people, but it's usually just directed at women.

I do wonder what they'll do if muslim women start walking the streets in JNCOs and oversized hoodies tho

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>I do wonder what they'll do if muslim women start walking the
>streets in JNCOs and oversized hoodies tho

I can understand at pools or topless/nude beaches but otherwise nah

Because I'm pretty sure it's about islamophobia

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

whose side is the right side to be on? Kind of why I am indifferent.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

What do you do with women who cover-up by choice? You can find many muslim women who will tell you that it's their choice to cover. You can find many women who have converted to Islam and choose to cover. Isn't telling them how they can and can't dress also sexism/misogyny?

We should be against institutions (like Islam in this instance) forcing women to cover and/or punishing them if they choose not to. But we should also be for the right of those same women to choose the way they practice their religion, not letting an institution (in this instance the German government) choose for them.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

If there is sexism and misogyny, THAT is the problem. Hijab may be voluntary even in a misogynistic society/religion/relationship.

I agree that it's about Islamophobia.

I also abhor FGM, but after reading Alice Walker's book The Temple of My Familiars, I'm less self-satisfied by my moral position. If that makes sense.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

And I get it is a matter of degrees but degrees matter.

I mean look how you moved the goal post, which I don't blame you. It's way easier to defend Hijabs versus Burkas but Hijabs aren't the issue (unless you make a slippery slope argument).


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Hijabs don't cover your face. Burkas do. I don't care if my kid's teacher wears a toque or a baseball cap or a hijab. I care if they wear a human tent with nothing but an airhole where their mouth is.

Because there's no difference between a Burka and a habit. Or Amish dress, or Orthodox Jewish dress.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

https://www.channel4.com/news/from-hijab-to-burqa-a-guide-to-muslim-headwear

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Do you have any problem if your daughter's teacher wears a full burka while teaching class?

but it's a choice that is rooted in sexism/misogyny.

I'd like to hear the explanation for Burkas that is not rooted in sexism/misogyny.

So sure it would be impinging on someone's right to choose, but I am not sure limiting that right to choose in this instance is an example of sexism just because it only affects women.

The more extreme example. If you read plenty about human trafficking you would see that when you try to "free" many of them don't want to leave the prostitution they were forced into because of shame or other reasons. Are they really choosing or feeling the weight of the sexism that put them in their position in the first place. Is not allowing them to return to sex work sexism?

Also, I am sure you would find many women involved with the practice of genitalia mutilation so banning the practice would affect women's rights (granted children choosing GM doesn't have much legal or moral weight), could it be sexist to ban GM?






>What do you do with women who cover-up by choice? You can
>find many muslim women who will tell you that it's their
>choice to cover. You can find many women who have converted to
>Islam and choose to cover. Isn't telling them how they can and
>can't dress also sexism/misogyny?
>
>We should be against institutions (like Islam in this
>instance) forcing women to cover and/or punishing them if they
>choose not to, but we should also be for the right of those
>same women to choose the way they practice their religion.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

with marriage.
That's also a choice that is rooted in sexism/misogyny/patriarchy.
Does that mean they shouldn't be able to make that choice?

As men, we don't get to decide what's best for women. The end.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

>As men, we don't get to decide what's best for women. The
>end.

So then you are down with Merkel's support of banning Burkas?

Or a woman choosing FGM? or choosing for her daughter?

My point is I think it's silly to make a man versus woman issue because you'd easily have the same result of a burka ban if only the women of the US, France or Germany or other Western culture were allowed to vote for their respective homelands.

It is an issue of the right of religious minorities to practice customs that are grounded in sexism and misogyny.

Of course there are plenty of practices grounded in sexism that we don't ban (surname) but there are plenty we do (owning and beating your wife, ritual killings, etc.).

The question is where does this practice fall on the continuum.

Does this practice fall on the side where minority religious freedom outweighs societal values or the minority religious rights outweighs the societal values?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

She's a single, non-muslim, white woman; surrounded by other non-muslim white men and women. If this were an issue to be decided, it should be by muslim women.

Nothing about us without us (is for us).

And this whole shit right here offends me "minority religious freedom outweighs societal values or the minority religious rights outweighs the societal values"

"Societal values" should not be set in stone. They should be constantly be in negotiation as the people, times, knowledge, and understanding move and change. Unless you're advocating that we should just have slavery because we did before or you're a xenophobe.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

>She's a single, non-muslim, white woman; surrounded by other
>non-muslim white men and women. If this were an issue to be
>decided, it should be by muslim women.


That all sounds lovely in theory but that's not how any of this works. Women in societies where they wear burkas are the most oppressed women in the world so they don't get to vote as a block to determine whether they have to wear burkas. If you go to a society dominated by women wearing burkas, you can be assured that it was men who decided that they should be wearing burkas.

Even in the West you can not begin to make the assumption that the women wear burkas are doing so by choice. I think you will find that if a woman is wearing a burka she is probably submitting herself to the command of her husband.

Of course there will be women who tell you otherwise but I side eye any woman saying she is pro burqa of her own free will and not because of societal or familial pressure the same way I'd side eye a victim of Domestic violence who changes her mind about pressing charges against her husband.

But hey, provide me with one example of a pro-woman, pro-Burka muslim woman defending the practice free of male or societal pressure and I am all ears to hear from her.

Otherwise you are just some non-muslim dude arguing for the tool used to oppress alot of muslim women.


Your thinking on this is kind of like chalking up low women voter turnout after the passage of 19th Amendment to women choosing not to vote and not societal and familial pressure not to vote.



>
>Nothing about us without us (is for us).
>
>And this whole shit right here offends me "minority religious
>freedom outweighs societal values or the minority religious
>rights outweighs the societal values"
>
>"Societal values" should not be set in stone. They should be
>constantly be in negotiation as the people, times, knowledge,
>and understanding move and change. Unless you're advocating
>that we should just have slavery because we did before or
>you're a xenophobe.


I don't understand what offends you here. Maybe because you quoted part of it out of context. I never set societal values are set in stone (I think by definition they change). I don't know what the slavery or xenophobe line even means. Maybe you should read my statement again and understand it before shooting from the hip.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

what I'm saying.
Your argument is identical to that of an "pro-lifer."


Again: Nothing about us, without us (is for us).

Non-muslim men and women should not be creating rules that only affect muslim women. The end.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"choosing" to wear Burkas is full of shit. You should feel silly as a dude trying to make that argument.

You would be better off like I mentioned above by providing links to arguments made by muslim women who wear burkas and say they do so by choice and not societal or familial pressure.

But you haven't really addressed any questions or points I have made so far.

Your position is misguided because you are viewing this through the lens of modern western society where you have a relatively informed, free women with agency and the ability to freely make such decisions as to what to where, and not taking into context we are discussing oppressed women in a closed society with women with little options.

Let me put another way, if all the women in my neighborhood in Brooklyn, NY decided they didn't want to wear burkas anymore and stopped wearing them, do you think they would face consequences for that decisions? Think there husbands and families would be like "cool!"


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

News to me.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

Germany has more muslims than any other european country. They had over 5 million BEFORE they stepped up to the plate and decided to take on more Syrian refugees than any other country. Other western countries should LOOK UP to Germany's courage and tolerance....especially those that espouse tolerance. It's estimated they've taken in just less than half a million refugees in 2016 alone. The same refugees that are being turned away by other western nations and the same ones that even liberal Americans want endlessly screened for terrorism. Screenings that cause death. They don't HAVE time.

Merkel should be a fucking HERO to you if you care about religious tolerance. But she doesn't want the burka (a symbol of oppression for the vast majority of MUSLIMS) in schools and courtrooms...so she's racist. Unbelievable.

that no one even used.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

I've seen some shit you've posted here. You should be ashamed.

dig it up.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

have any intention of addressing the issues and questions I have raised. Noted.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

between talking about western societies and muslim countries.

I've chosen not to address silly ass questions about FGM. And your other "questions" seem concerned with imposing rules upon the women affected the the patriarchy you're admonishing and not those who inflict said patriarchy upon them.

I agree that my perspective is that of a westerner... and we're talking about Germany. So... what's the issue?

If the question is about muslim countries, which is never was... then who is imposing this hypothetical ban? Outsiders?
Empower those affected. Educate them. Grant them subjectivity. Give them agency. You should not just be imposing rules because you think they're in their best interest (whether you're "right" or "wrong") meaningful change comes from the people.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

and what role they play in muslim society. They're arguing about something they don't know about....perhaps because they don't live near muslims or know them or haven't been exposed to this specific issue. So they're just retreating to what they think the liberal, tolerant argument is and they couldn't be more wrong. Calling the burka 'muslim' is like calling the KKK outfit 'Christian'. Criticizing the burka is NOT a critique of islam.

and has absolutely nothing to do with women's rights
Merkle herself mentioned it in relation to the violence of last summer as it they are at all related. Burka wearing women having nothing to do with those incidents. Nothing.

My point is simple, the people affected by a rule are the ones who should determine it. I don't know how often I need to type this out:

Nothing about us without us (is for us).
Nothing about us without us (is for us).
Nothing about us without us (is for us).
Nothing about us without us (is for us).
Nothing about us without us (is for us).
Nothing about us without us (is for us).
Nothing about us without us (is for us).
Nothing about us without us (is for us).
Nothing about us without us (is for us).
Nothing about us without us (is for us).
Nothing about us without us (is for us).

If you're not engaging muslim women about what they think, stfu.
Protect them. Empower them. Grant them agency and self determination.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

Well that merely goes against every principle that modern civilization is based on. We should let the southern white people self-police the KKK when they disallow integration in public schools?

No. We have central institutions that do that. Try again.

how the fuck do you get that from what i'm talking about?
southern whites should self-police the kkk?
what?

your comprehension is way off.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"Non-muslim men and women should not be creating rules that only affect muslim women. The end."

Whereby one can only deduce....the only people who should make rules about muslim people have to be muslim people. Self-police.

Your comprehension levels are absurdly low.

Maybe this will help. Maybe not. But it's the last thing I've got to say to you... unless of course you dig up the supposed shameful shit I've posted. I'm still waiting on that.

http://prepareinc.com/there-is-nothing-about-us-without-us/

“Nothing About Us Without Us!” (Latin: “Nihil de nobis, sine nobis”) is a slogan used to communicate the idea that no policy should be decided by any representative without the full and direct participation of members the group(s) affected by that policy. This involves national, ethnic, disability-based, or other groups that are often thought to be marginalized from political, social, and economic opportunities.”

It is not a new idea – as a political motto it has been used since 1505 in Poland and No Taxation without Representation was a familiar slogan of the American Revolutionary War. Yet this critical message is ignored time and time again, leaving out the voices of those who know best what their lived experiences are like, what their needs are, what is most important to them.


--

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

Maybe you should 'westplain' to them.

given that it's a 500 year old concept, I'm sure they catch on to it much quicker than your dense ass.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2008/12/1.png

'cause if you really think about it, women dressing in as little as they feel still benefits men moreso than women.

The ability to choose is an illusion.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

= no foks given

that is, why is this an issue

and why are we devoting time and effort to it

with so many other important issues.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

I see them all the time. I think they're a disgrace. But I don't think people should be disallowed to wear them except for certain environments....similar to what Germany is proposing. Courtrooms, schools, passport offices, etc. The idea they are a 'choice' is so incredibly naïve and over-the-top cultural relativist. 'Some slaves were happy' too. We also have honour killings. Some muslim women agree with those too.

Women covered head to toe with just their eyes showing. Some have netting over their eyes too. They're out and about doing their thing. It doesn't bother me one bit.

I think your Islamophobia and xenophobia are showing.

As for choice - Janet Ms Jackson if you're Nasty wears the shit. By. Choice. The woman has more agency than most women in the world. But she covers up bc she converted to Islam and is married. Her choice. She's just one example. Plenty women choose to keep their physical beauty away from YOUR prying eyes. Get over yourself. They're not hurting you. Leave them be.

fuck you.

I have. I'll refrain from calling you a defender of institutional sexism in order to make my point. And burkas are undoubtedly an institutional form of sexism.

they're being mistreated? Including the woman I know who wears one and told me it was her choice? Okay.

I'll call you a misogynist and xenophobe, whitey.

Again - any man who forces a woman to wear a burka should be criminally penalized. But the women being forced to wear them should NOT be penalized.

fuck you.

plenty of religions require women to appear a certain way or wear certain attire

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

And I'm aware that we might also characterize the bra or the hijab as being 'based on historical sexism'.

But the Burka is very new compared to those traditions. I would argue it has not been 'reclaimed' by women the way the bra or the hijab have. The fact is...you can correlate the amount of gender oppression that takes place in rural muslim areas with the popularity of the burka. We're playing dumb if we don't recognize that. I suppose it's a coincidence that the burka increases ten-fold after the Taliban takes over a territory?

keeping it general, I think you can see the faiLure in your logic

if you want to ban garments because they are oppressive to women

why stop at the burka?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

and neither does Germany.

I believe in freedom. I also believe that we place limits on those freedoms within our public institutions. Normal civilians can dress like they want. Teachers can't.

The modern-day burka carries values with it. I don't want those values expressed in our public institutions. i don't want my kid's teacher teaching my child those values. They can express those values in public...but not in our institutions.

and whose victimization harms your sacred institutions.

That's great logic.

fuck you.

This is not a 'punishment'. This is a restriction of freedom in a public institution.

The KKK outfit carries values with it. So does the burka. We get to pick and choose which values are allowed to be expressed in our schools. If you want to know what gender values the burka represents....go find the places in the world where the burka is prominent and see what their gender values are.

Would it be punishing them if we insisted while in the classroom they be allowed to speak without being spoken too? Or if we insisted they supervise recess without a male chaperone to accompany them? Or is that punishing them too?

What if they insisted it was 'their choice' to follow those gender guidelines? Our refusal to accomodate them is 'punishment'?

other than this.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/variety/2016/10/27/Rumors-of-Janet-Jackson-converting-to-Islam-after-sporting-a-poncho-.html




>Women covered head to toe with just their eyes showing. Some
>have netting over their eyes too. They're out and about doing
>their thing. It doesn't bother me one bit.
>
>I think your Islamophobia and xenophobia are showing.
>
>As for choice - Janet Ms Jackson if you're Nasty wears the
>shit. By. Choice. The woman has more agency than most women in
>the world. But she covers up bc she converted to Islam and is
>married. Her choice. She's just one example. Plenty women
>choose to keep their physical beauty away from YOUR prying
>eyes. Get over yourself. They're not hurting you. Leave them
>be.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

https://www.google.ca/search?q=burka+image&biw=1680&bih=915&tbm=isch&imgil=WpBBs88wHtLLwM%253A%253BvlVRZstbwGXlDM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ibtimes.co.uk%25252Fislamic-state-bans-burka-northern-iraq-after-veiled-woman-kills-2-jihadists-1579804&source=iu&pf=m&fir=WpBBs88wHtLLwM%253A%252CvlVRZstbwGXlDM%252C_&usg=__pvuyYzspp0th2wRlRUzAzBHvQM4%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjG7LWP9uDQAhVNx2MKHVhAA34QyjcIOQ&ei=zmRHWMbNFM2OjwPYgI3wBw#imgrc=WpBBs88wHtLLwM%3A

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

The majority I see are Black American women that (I think) converted to Islam.

protest over it or anything. *shrugs*

Why not make forcing a woman or man to wear religous garb against their will with physical, verbal, or kidnapping threats punishable by jail, then also make it easy for victims to report that crime.
If you've spent anytime in philly you'll see grown ass American born and bred women convert to Islam and willingly put on burkas midlife. I can't believe they are the only ones wearing them by choice. A ban deprives them of religious freedom. I think there are many women who are forced but the onus should on punishing the people forcing them to wear religious clothing, not the women.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

I guess I wonder how you know who is under a burka and their willingness to rock them unless they your peoples?







>Why not make forcing a woman or man to wear religous garb
>against their will with physical, verbal, or kidnapping
>threats punishable by jail, then also make it easy for victims
>to report that crime.

I would guess the same reason that in domestic violence calls the police still arrest the dude even if the woman changes their mind when the cops arrive, their is no practical way to determine who is doing so by choice and who is being forced to do so.






>If you've spent anytime in philly you'll see grown ass
>American born and bred women convert to Islam and willingly
>put on burkas midlife. I can't believe they are the only ones
>wearing them by choice. A ban deprives them of religious
>freedom. I think there are many women who are forced but the
>onus should on punishing the people forcing them to wear
>religious clothing, not the women.
>
>___________________________________________________________
>
>
>DJTB YOMM


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

One day you see them like...
http://9502-presscdn-0-95.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/janet1.jpg

Next day it's...
http://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/janet-blackstreet.jpg%3Fw%3D98%26h%3D98%26crop%3D1

Wash, rinse, repeat.

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DJTB YOMM

I know women who wear Hijabs. Burkas are on a whole nother level and you really don't see those women chatting it up with folks outside their set, they are usually two steps behind their husbands not saying nothing.




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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Like this... http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/09/16/article-2421893-1BDAEB43000005DC-783_306x423.jpg


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DJTB YOMM