This isn't about the dudes in nativity scene costumes screaming on folks in the street and it certainly is about white folks being so called Edomites or who is or is not the chosen people inhabiting the state of Israel.

I'm just trying to get to the truth of these verses by finding to whom they can apply to in their entirety and I wouldn't mind some help from those interested so take as many of them as you like (refer to the verse number) and post scenarios which you believe show them to apply or not apply to so called negros in America and or other groups if possible.

Feel free to shoot the messenger as well if you feel so inclined.

Here goes
Deuteronomy 28 15 - 68
Curses for Disobedience

15 “But lif you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.

16 Cursed shall you be nin the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.

17 Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.

18 Cursed shall be the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock.

19 Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.

20 “The Lord will send on you curses, confusion, and frustration in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have forsaken me.

21 The Lord will make the pestilence stick to you until he has consumed you off the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease and with fever, inflammation and fiery heat, and with drought and with blight and with mildew. They shall pursue you until you perish.

23 And the heavens over your head shall be bronze, and the earth under you shall be iron.

24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder. From heaven dust shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them. And you shall be a horror to all the kingdoms of the earth.

26 And your dead body shall be food for all birds of the air and for the beasts of the earth, and there shall be no one to frighten them away.

27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, and with tumors and scabs and itch, of which you cannot be healed.

28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of mind,

29 and you shall grope at noonday, as the blind grope in darkness, and you shall not prosper in your ways. And you shall be only oppressed and robbed continually, and there shall be no one to help you.

30 You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall ravish her. You shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it. You shall plant a vineyard, but you shall not enjoy its fruit.

31 Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat any of it. Your donkey shall be seized before your face, but shall not be restored to you. Your sheep shall be given to your enemies, but there shall be no one to help you.

32 Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, while your eyes look on and fail with longing for them all day long, but you shall be helpless.

33 A nation that you have not known shall eat up the fruit of your ground and of all your labors, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually,

34 so that you are driven mad by the sights that your eyes see.

35 The Lord will strike you on the knees and on the legs with grievous boils of which you cannot be healed, from the sole of your foot to the crown of your head.

36 “The Lord will bring you and your king whom you set over you to a nation that neither you lnor your fathers have known. And there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone.

37 And you shall become na horror, a proverb, and a byword among all the peoples where the Lord will lead you away.

38 You shall carry much seed into the field and shall gather in little, for the locust shall consume it.

39 You shall plant vineyards and dress them, but you shall neither drink of the wine nor gather the grapes, for the worm shall eat them.

40 You shall have olive trees throughout all your territory, but you shall not anoint yourself with the oil, for your olives shall drop off.

41 You shall father sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours, for sthey shall go into captivity.

42 The cricket shall possess all your trees and the fruit of your ground.

43 The sojourner who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower.

44 He shall lend to you, and you shall not lend to him. He shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

45 “All these curses shall come upon you and pursue you and overtake you till you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes that he commanded you.

46 They shall be a sign and a wonder against you and your offspring forever.

47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things,

48 therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you.

49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the end of the earth, swooping down like the eagle, a nation whose language you do not understand,

50 a hard-faced nation who shall not respect the old or show mercy to the young.

51 It shall eat the offspring of your cattle and the fruit of your ground, until you are destroyed; it also shall not leave you grain, wine, or oil, the increase of your herds or the young of your flock, until they have caused you to perish.

52 “They shall besiege you in all your towns, until your high and fortified walls, in which you trusted, come down throughout all your land. And they shall besiege you in all your towns throughout all your land, which the Lord your God has given you.

53 And you shall eat the fruit of your womb, the flesh of your sons and daughters, whom the Lord your God has given you, gin the siege and in the distress with which your enemies shall distress you.

54 The man who is the most tender and refined among you will begrudge food to his brother, to the wife he embraces, and to the last of the children whom he has left,

55 so that he will not give to any of them any of the flesh of his children whom he is eating, because he has nothing else left, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemy shall distress you in all your towns.

56 The most tender and refined woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because she is so delicate and tender, will begrudge to the husband she embraces, to her son and to her daughter,

57 her afterbirth that comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears, because lacking everything she will eat them secretly, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemy shall distress you in your towns.

58 “If you are not careful to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, lthe Lord your God,

59 then the Lord will bring on you and your offspring extraordinary afflictions, afflictions severe and lasting, and sicknesses grievous and lasting.

60 And he will bring upon you again all mthe diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you.

61 Every sickness also and every affliction that is not recorded in the book of this law, the Lord will bring upon you, until you are destroyed.

62 Whereas you were as numerous as the stars of heaven, you shall be left few in number, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God.

63 And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you. And you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

64 Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known.

65 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the Lord will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart.

66 You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life.

67 In the morning you will say, “If only it were evening!” and in the evening, “If only it were morning!”—because of the terror that will fill your hearts and the sights that your eyes will see.

68 The Lord will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.

But sure they can be applied to a number of ppls all over the world. That's part of the draw of xtianity.

fuck you.

But made to borrow?

They will lend money to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, and you will be the tail!

So far this does not appear to apply. If it does -- to what could it be referring?

b4 the Holocaust the Nazis confiscated all their stuff.

fuck you.

They are one of the largest and wealthiest banking families. So this still does not appear to be applicable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

They caught hell. Read up on it and stop making a fool of yourself.

fuck you.

According to the Jewish Virtual Library Jewish banking thrived throughout the 19th century

So is it true or not true that the Jewish people as a whole have ever been in a position where they were mostly or fully relegated to borrowing but could not lend? Or at very least does it apply both to the European (Ashkenazi) Jew and the so called negro?

On Jewish banking in the US
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0003_0_01978.html

Lastly according to Bible/Torah Jews have been scattered to the for corners of the earth. They don't just exist in Germany.

fuck you.

My how black people hate to examine anything that could relate to themselves or what they've been "taught".

You mention ONE family that kept banking though millions had their property stolen, communities ruined, lives shattered. Et al. You are too caught up in antisemitism to see how ugly this subthread is. I won't be part of your ugliness. Go on with this bullshit, fool.

fuck you.

>You mention ONE family that kept banking though millions had
>their property stolen, communities ruined, lives shattered. Et
>al.

Um I provided a link to more than one. Also I'm looking for a group of people who all of these verse apply to as the verses themselves say all shall apply. You don't see a contradiction or conflict?


You are too caught up in antisemitism to see how ugly this
>subthread is. I won't be part of your ugliness. Go on with
>this bullshit, fool.

Emotional. This is about black people here in America and if there is a connection.
This a map of Africa from the 20th century AFTER the trans Atlantic slave trade so does it stand to reason that these areas could have had higher Jewish populations prior to it?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Africa#/media/File%3AAfrica-jewish-population.jpg

Why did Europeans call this area of Africa Juda
http://www.perfectman.org/i/WHIDAH_-_Kingdom_of_Jews_2_.jpg

Can you at least understand how that might raise questions?

The shit is about the Jews. It was written by them for them about them. But we can relate. That doesn't change the fact that Jewish ppl wrote the verses about themselves. Not us.

fuck you.

fuck you.

Faith - which is possible according to mosaic law
Blood - which is also certainly true

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In the regions that supplied slaves AFTER they lost tens of millions of their inhabitants

and shows virtually no jewish population present in the regions that supplied slaves to north america.

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Not sure how Nigeria, Congo, and Ghana didn't supply plenty of enslaved people. You realize this map was made AFTER the trans Atlantic and Arab slave trade? Should the numbers be off the chart after at least 12.5 million people were taken?

it doesn't say anything about genetic connections or whatever you are talking about.


>Not sure how Nigeria, Congo, and Ghana didn't supply plenty
>of enslaved people. You realize this map was made AFTER the
>trans Atlantic and Arab slave trade? Should the numbers be off
>the chart after at least 12.5 million people were taken?

Even if the map depicted what you think it does (which it does not), shouldn't the numbers be more than basically ZERO in Nigeria, Congo, Ghana, and the other regions affected by the trans Atlantic slave trade? how does virtually zero Jewish population in these areas today indicate that the populations there were of Jewish origin 200-400 years ago? Like, I seriously have no idea what you think this map proves.

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You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall ravish her. You shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it. You shall plant a vineyard, but you shall not enjoy its fruit.

>But sure they can be applied to a number of ppls all over the
>world.
Name some who ALL of these apply to

>That's part of the draw of xtianity.
Theses verses predate Christ by over 300 years

When. The. Shit. Was. Written. It. Was. About. The. Jewish. Ppl.

Deuteronomy is the 5th book of the Torah - books of instruction for the Jews. Hello??????

But ppl all over the world can relate which is one reason why xtianity has such pull with ppl all over. Xtians read these verses. So yes you are right in saying we can relate.

fuck you.

Prior to Jerusalems fall. And continued to flee (farther south) from Roman and later Muslim oppression in North Africa ?

The Torah was written by Jewish ppl. To Jewish ppl. About Jewish ppl. But it's relatable to ppl all over the world.

fuck you.

Just looking for answers man

fuck you.

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And the Europeans marked a section of the Ivory Coast as Juda and Africans first delivered spoils of war as slaves and those slaves were subsequently interbred at random it becomes difficult to make that statement with 100% confidence.

Trust me at first I had thought it to be nonsense as well, but then I started asking questions and well -- here we are.

>And the Europeans marked a section of the Ivory Coast as Juda

Europeans marked a section of North America as Juda (in Wisconsin), so does that mean the people who live there are descendants of the biblical Israelites too?

>and Africans first delivered spoils of war as slaves and those
>slaves were subsequently interbred at random it becomes
>difficult to make that statement with 100% confidence.

true, saying it with 100% confidence is difficult. I say it with 99.9999% confidence.


>Trust me at first I had thought it to be nonsense as well, but
>then I started asking questions and well -- here we are.

still nonsense?

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Rudolph Windsor
From Babylon to Timbuktu

Allen H. Gidbey
THE LOST TRIBES A MYTH: SUGGESTIONS TOWARDS REWRITING HEBREW HISTORY"

Edith Bruder
Constructions of Jewish Identities in Sub-Saharan Africa
From her site
http://issaj.com

Here are some interesting quotes. One from an Ashkenazi the other an Arab

The Ibos are the wandering Jews of West Africa -- gifted, aggressive, Westernized; at best envied and resented, but mostly despised by their neighbors in the federation
-Henry Kissenger

"you (the Jews) will never be able to live here in peace, because you left here black but came back white. We cannot accept you! "
-The late president of Egypt, Gamal Abdel Nasser

I mean cmon.


>Here are some interesting quotes. One from an Ashkenazi the
>other an Arab
>
>The Ibos are the wandering Jews of West Africa -- gifted,
>aggressive, Westernized; at best envied and resented, but
>mostly despised by their neighbors in the federation
>-Henry Kissenger

is that supposed to have some relevance to the topic we're discussing?


> "you (the Jews) will never be able to live here in peace,
>because you left here black but came back white. We cannot
>accept you! "
>-The late president of Egypt, Gamal Abdel Nasser

besides the obvious problems with this quote regarding its source and inherent antisemitism, it doesn't say anything about Israelites fleeing to West Africa.

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>I mean cmon.

I'm pretty sure I gave you three names. And on the issaj page there are plenty of publications by other whites with colder ice. Funny how you pick out the one author who,is black to tear down.

>
>>Here are some interesting quotes. One from an Ashkenazi the
>>other an Arab
>>
>>The Ibos are the wandering Jews of West Africa -- gifted,
>>aggressive, Westernized; at best envied and resented, but
>>mostly despised by their neighbors in the federation
>>-Henry Kissenger
>
>is that supposed to have some relevance to the topic we're
>discussing?

Since Igbo do posses haplogroup e3b which is in all Jews you tell me.
http://issaj.com


>
>> "you (the Jews) will never be able to live here in peace,
>>because you left here black but came back white. We cannot
>>accept you! "
>>-The late president of Egypt, Gamal Abdel Nasser
>
>besides the obvious problems with this quote regarding its
>source and inherent antisemitism, it doesn't say anything
>about Israelites fleeing to West Africa.

If millions of black people fled into Europe don't you'd think we'd have it in the historic record. Arabs are actually Semites too homie. Like -- by blood.
>

>I'm pretty sure I gave you three names. And on the issaj page
>there are plenty of publications by other whites with colder
>ice. Funny how you pick out the one author who,is black to
>tear down.

I looked up the first name you gave and it was a joke, didn't waste my time looking up the other names you gave after that. not my fault the first source you cited was some nonsense.


>>is that supposed to have some relevance to the topic we're
>>discussing?
>
>Since Igbo do posses haplogroup e3b which is in all Jews you
>tell me.
>http://issaj.com

Ok now we're on to something, but that link just goes to the homepage and doesn't have any info listed on the topic so not sure why you put it there. I'm assuming if there is a link supporting the information you cited you would be able to provide it?


>If millions of black people fled into Europe don't you'd think
>we'd have it in the historic record.

"If"


> Arabs are actually
>Semites too homie. Like -- by blood.

you don't say.

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You can look into it further or not, but you cant say there is no relation or a possible one.

it says nothing about people groups with genetic traits associated with hebrews.

>You can look into it further or not, but you cant say there
>is no relation or a possible one.

There is no relation or a possible one.

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http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/desolation/josephus.html

It is estimated that 2/3rds of the Israelite tribes would be considered black (of Cushite and Shemite lineage) by today's standards.

>http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/desolation/josephus.html
>
>It is estimated that 2/3rds of the Israelite tribes would be
>considered black (of Cushite and Shemite lineage) by today's
>standards.

It took decades, but Deuteronomy was getting its finishing touches just after the first rebuilding of the Temple in 516BC, wasn't it?

Are you saying they suddenly decided to add this verse nearly half a millennium later?

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forever.

Well after it (the book) was completed correct?

>It is estimated that 2/3rds of the Israelite tribes would be
>considered black (of Cushite and Shemite lineage) by today's
>standards.

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http://youtu.be/2h5Ylr4EPH4

compelling.

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Cross referenced with what is known about those groups.

Moses and his descendants
Joseph and his descendants
Solomon who says he's black and fathered many children
Abraham and his last wife who was definitely black
And so on

so basically nothing credible.

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But that won't be happening any time soon we'll it? And a lot of folks have come to the same conclusion. I mean you do have a computer in front of you.

>of folks have come to the same conclusion. I mean you do have
>a computer in front of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YozC8yFrZKI

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Or a dope music collection

these are most likely the oral histories of a group of people
infused with a touch of mysticism.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

I'm looking to see if there is truth that many Jews who were black fled into Africa and their descendants ended up here in America. If all these verses can truly apply to us that would then likely be true IMO.

So atheist statements are not of much help.

but whatever

to answer your question, one has to suspend belief in who wrote those phrases.
we can do that
but you also want us to suspend belief that it was written about and for the jewish people
by making allusions that it was about africans?
perhaps it would make better sense if you had some historical evidence
independent of a book that would need one to believe in its words to continue
thats going around in circles

and btw even if,
> If all these verses can truly apply to us

it really does not mean that
>that would
>then likely be true IMO.

that would be the definition of coincidence
these happen all the time, they dont lend credence to the thing

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

Babylon to Timbuktu by Rudolph Windsor

you know what?
good luck with this. as you said, this is not supposed to be a rational discussion

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

Dr. Edith Bruder
Constructions of Jewish Identities in Sub-Saharan Africa
From her site
http://issaj.com

And Windsor references other books besides the one you clearly detest, but if bible writings are your stumbling block you're still wasting your time.

But I think it's written generalistically enough that it speaks to almost anyone who feels subjugated, sidelined or segregated from whatever the "mainstream" society is in their nation.

The Torah was written and first disseminated when the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel were variably under the control of (i.e. effectively enslaved by) Assyria or Babylon. Israel was destroyed by Assyria for rebelling and its refugees fled to Judah bringing lots of new ideas and trying to form a single, mightier People. Deuteronomy and the rest of the history of Israel particularly is essentially their Declaration Of Independence; of their people, their truth and of their God... Yahweh morphs from "a god, our god, who competes for our interests against all the other Peoples' gods" to "The God, the ONLY God"... belief in Judaism morphs from a choice into a duty... and eventually the pacts between the two Peoples became a pact with Yahweh... something that cannot be denied or walked away from without risking eternal damnation.

The ever-growing shared identity of the people grew into a strong Independence movement and eventually Babylon had enough and crushed Judah... which could obviously only be Yahweh's wraith for Judaeans getting lazy respecting the covenant. They went back into the wilderness and got more serious about observing the rules of the Covenant... larger histories were written to keep the People bound together with shared identity and history (Joshua, Kings etc) and the story morphed from "We as a people will eventually find a home" to "We, the chosen people, will eventually be allowed to RETURN home"... eventually the Persian Empire, enlightened types that they were, let them back in and allowed them to rebuild the Temple.

Essentially any binding text needs to boil down to: "Follow our mythology, join us or your life will suck harder than you could ever imagine." - that's the same whether you're trying to bind the USA in 2016, England in 1066, South Africa in 1994 or the Kingdom of Judah in 700BC... so the Torah has parallels which make it 'relevant' to just about all monotheistic and enslaved Peoples on the planet.

But just because many peoples' lives have sucked harder than any of them should've been able to imagine doesn't mean that every warning of sucktitude was for them.... but it equally doesn't mean that there's nothing to gain from reading it. Deuteronomy is a really fucking great book.

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forever.

Of the most high to re-gather his people correct? Meaning that once ALL of these judgments fell upon the people it would be so in perpetuity or until the people returned to worshiping their God. With most modern jews being atheist and or not proclaiming Yeshua as mans savior shouldn't these judgements be upon them to this day?

I agree that a lot of cultures could relate to some of these, but no one has given up any that they believe fit every last one.

>their God. With most modern jews being atheist and or not
>proclaiming Yeshua as mans savior shouldn't these judgements
>be upon them to this day?

'TISM.

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https://www.amazon.com/Black-Bible-Manuscripts-Isnt-White/dp/1508559414/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

I haven't read it, but the guy who wrote it
is super knowledgeable and thorough, and I'm
interested in most of his work including this.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

It contains 2 interviews. Both are necessary,
but part 2 contains some very essential listening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHC9XM6ggjs

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

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Instead of drastically altered. For example why leave all the referrals to black or dark brown people in the writings to begin with?

were black in the sense that you and I understand it?



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But there's the repeated dwelling among ancient Egyptians who clearly depicted themselves as black and I'd say that depiction was as you and I understand it today.

There's the adjective "wooly" in the bible used to describe hair textures.

If Jesus and his family could hide among Egyptians and one of his closest homies was Simeon of Cyrene aka "Niger" it leads me to believe it's just as black as we are today.

If people did migrate out of Africa into the Middle East and beyond what type of black would they be?

Lastly when an Arab Semite in Egypt says there are now white Semites where there were once black Semites in the 70's I tend to side with the Egyptian seeing as how they would know a thing or two about black people.