I notice a lot of Seventh Day Adventists and JWs on OKP when I do these. It's certainly a different perspective than anything in the circles I run into, so I appreciate those questions. But go ahead and ask away, whether you're a Bible-only Christian, a Catholic yourself, an atheist, or what have you.

Can be about the faith, practices, timely news stuff, or good old fashioned apologetics-type of questions.

yall be wildin out at parties mayne

is there fundamentalist catholicism

>yall be wildin out at parties mayne
>
>is there fundamentalist catholicism


Can you explain what you mean? I've heard Catholicism described as a lot of things, but "liberal" isn't usually one of them!

What do you mean by "fundamentalist Catholicism?"

And Augustine understood the Church as a hospital for sinners and not as a summer camp for saints.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

>
Well, everything will be made known on Judgment Day (Luke 12:2), so the Church is designed to ensure as many people are in God's friendship at that time. Seems pretty valuable to me!

If all it takes to be saved is to believe in the risen christ and it's those who do believe whose names are written in the book of life then what is the value of being catholic when it comes to the gift of eternal life? In other words according to the bible one doesn't need Catholicism to live after death. So what's it's value?

>If all it takes to be saved is to believe in the risen christ
>and it's those who do believe whose names are written in the
>book of life then what is the value of being catholic when it
>comes to the gift of eternal life? In other words according to
>the bible one doesn't need Catholicism to live after death. So
>what's it's value?

I see what you mean now, though I disagree with your premise. Catholics don't believe in Sola Fide, and salvation is instead considered an ongoing drama throughout one's life. Christ himself states that you cannot enter into heaven without being baptized into the faith. The Catholic Church provides that baptism. He also states that you cannot enter the Kingdom unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood. The Catholic Church provides the Eucharist for that purpose. And so on with the other Sacraments. Reconciliation is a consequence of Christ's granting his apostles to forgive sins, etc.

So, the Catholic Church is an extension of Christ's ministry. You are right that the Bible doesn't ever refer to "Catholicism." But, then again, it never refers to "The Bible" either!

Yes, the term "Catholic" (meaning universal) didn't take root until the beginning of the second century, coined likely by St. Ignatius to distinguish the true Church from heresies of the time.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

with Exodus 20:4

"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth."

5: “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me."

No snark, I'm a former catholic and that's one of the many reasons that I bounced

>with Exodus 20:4
>
>"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of
>what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the
>water under the earth."
>
>5: “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the
>LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the
>fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth
>generations of those who hate Me."
>
>No snark, I'm a former catholic and that's one of the many
>reasons that I bounced

Sure, that's a valid question. What is an idol? Or, more importantly, how are idols presented in this passage of Scripture? They are replacements for God. They substitute God for an image. This is an obvious violation of the First Commandment.

The Catholic Church does not present images, statues, etc as idols. They do not replace God, nor substitute for God, but instead point to God. Look a little further down in Exodus to 25:18. God is asking Moses himself to carve an image!

Further, the Saints in heaven, the Blessed Virgin Mary above all others, are venerated as canonized examples of living in God's friendship. And in praying to them, we are simply communicating with brothers and sisters who are close to God, something highly recommended throughout Scripture. The tricky thing with the English language is that prayer to saints and prayer to the Lord use the same word-- "prayer." However, the former is a request. A "please pray (latter definition) for me".

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

Here are a few passages to chew on:

Revelation 5:8 (saints in heaven praying for us) - "Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones."

Timothy 2:1 (praying for others) - "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth"

Matthew 5:44 (Christ exhorting us to pray for others) - "But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you"

Matthew 17:3 (Conversing with those in heaven) - "And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, conversing with him."

James 5:16 - "The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects." (Who is more righteous than those in heaven?)



I might also turn the question around and ask where it forbids the practice.

They are talking about prayers FOR others not TO them.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

Yes, you are referring to prayer in a "worship" sense, which is not what we do when we pray to the saints. When we pray to saints, we are praying in an "asking" sense. Specifically, asking them to pray FOR us. Because we are meant to be one body in Christ. We are all fruits of the same vine, whether on earth or in heaven.

ask them to pray for us?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

that everything you do has to be explicitly stated in the Bible?

say that.

But to answer your question:

Deuteronomy 8:3New King James Version (NKJV)

3 So He humbled you, allowed you to hunger, and fed you with manna which you did not know nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man shall not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord.

So where did the Lord tell us that we should pray to saints and Mary?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

>say that.
>
>But to answer your question:
>
>Deuteronomy 8:3New King James Version (NKJV)
>
>3 So He humbled you, allowed you to hunger, and fed you with
>manna which you did not know nor did your fathers know, that
>He might make you know that man shall not live by bread alone;
>but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of
>the Lord.
>
>So where did the Lord tell us that we should pray to saints
>and Mary?

Do you believe that every word that proceeded from the mouth of the Lord has been documented in Scripture?

John 21:25 - "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written."


Ultimately, this is an argument about Sola Scriptura, which is a point of departure for Catholics and many Protestants. Your answer is that nowhere in Scripture does it explicitly state that we should pray to the saints and Mary. To a Bible-only Protestant, that's an "a ha!" moment. To a Catholic, we rely on the tradition set forth by the Church that Christ established (with Scriptual support, if not explicit directions).

thanks.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

God is Love...Love is relational and doesn't exist in solitaire without multiples

Trinity (the very nature of this God of Love being 3 persons)
Family
Communion of Saints

We are all this Love God's children, and God wants His children to love one another, which means having a relationship with one another.

A God like this is not simply utilitarian, so a purely utilitarian view of God's logic completely misses the point of literally EVERYTHING (Life, the Universe, Everything ...42)

A God like this could exist without any of us, or any of any of this around us.

A God like this chose, out of LOVE (not necessity - for which He has no needs) to create the universe, and to create us. Because somehow it makes Him happy.

The purpose for our existence is not a utilitarian one, to solve a problem or to fix a need, it is to participate in LOVE, and to participate and share in the beauty of God and creation.

This active participation in Love and creation and all that is wonderful is why God would give us an active role in each other's lives throughout eternity.

This is why a God like this encourages us to have a relationship with Saints (our family in Heaven) and enables them to participate in His work for us... even though it is not "necessary" from a utilitarian pov (He can do anything with no help). A utilitarian God would never bother creating us in the first place, and certainly wouldn't have any reason to love us.

edit PS: A "saint" is *anyone in Heaven*, not just the famous ones who have been officially canonized, which means *recognized* as a saint (canonizing doesn't make someone a saint, only says "this person's definitely in Heaven" -- which btw, there is never a declaration of certainty for anyone being in hell). The idea in Catholicism is that we're all meant to be saints (meant to be in Heaven, the communion of saints, etc). If you believe your friend or family member is in Heaven, and you speak to them, perhaps while looking at a picture of them, or holding something that reminds you of them, or visiting their grave, you are praying to a saint. That's what that is. You might even sing them a song or write them a love poem or ask "hey can you please help me out down here". Its different from worshiping them as your God.

and heaven isn't brought forth until this world perishes

Are you coming from a Jehovah's Witness perspective? So-called "soul sleep"?

I just want to make sure I know your position before I respond.

Catholics very much believe in a spiritual afterlife that exists now, a Heaven that exists now, that souls who have passed on are conscious now.

You may be getting that mixed up with the fact that Catholics also believe that one day, every soul will be reunited with their "resurrected" bodies, which will be like your old body but far more glorious. The ultimate reunion of the physical and spiritual which is typically interpreted to be "on hold" for now, until after Jesus comes back to Earth etc etc.

But is everyone just unconscious until that day? No.

Catholics don't really go to much into the old testament...

so.. all of that stuff about images and things they don't apply It to them.

You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

>Catholics don't really go to much into the old testament...
>
>so.. all of that stuff about images and things they don't
>apply It to them.

Almost every Mass contains a passage from the Old Testament, and a Psalm, as a shadow of the light of the New Testament. It's incredible how many connections there are, and how many different ways the Old Testament can be applied to Christ's teachings.

See above for the note on images.

I mean LOST lost. When they told me that Adam and Eve was "symbolic" and I said "wait..........so it didn't happen?" and they didn't want to just blatantly tell me, "no, it didn't," I was the most confused ever.

------------------------------

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>I mean LOST lost. When they told me that Adam and Eve was
>"symbolic" and I said "wait..........so it didn't happen?" and
>they didn't want to just blatantly tell me, "no, it didn't," I
>was the most confused ever.

I'm not sure there is an explicit teaching on Adam and Eve, though Catholics are inclined to believe yes, there was an actual Adam and yes, there was an actual Eve.

******
From the Catechism:

375 The Church, interpreting the symbolism of biblical language in an authentic way, in the light of the New Testament and Tradition, teaches that our first parents, Adam and Eve, were constituted in an original "state of holiness and justice". This grace of original holiness was "to share in. . .divine life".
**********

But far more important than a true understanding of the history is a true understanding of what it means for us. Man was made perfect. Man chose evil. Man is forever stained with a fallen nature. Christ redeemed Man.

?

Pope Francis has, rightly, been given a lot of credit for framing an entire encyclical (Laudato Si') around the issue. But Benedict XVI was thoroughly a theologian and saw unpacking the issues around the environment and our custody of the earth as a natural part of our understanding of God as creator.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

And we should probably do something about it. But Pope Francis' encyclical is very nuanced and much more broadly defined than a simple environmental problem. A lot of people are pretty shocked about his invocation of prostitution, abortion, euthanasia, and contraception into his piece.

how often do you attend mass?

>how often do you attend mass?

I go to confession. Not as often as I should.

I say the Hail Mary daily. Again, not as often as I should. I'd like to get into the habit of praying the Rosary more often.

I attend Mass every Sunday and on holy days of obligation.

Where did the idea come about of priests and nuns who are not allowed to marry and have children come about?


Also please explain The Trinity

Do you believe in Heaven and Hell?

You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

>Where did the idea come about of priests and nuns who are not
>allowed to marry and have children come about?

This is a tradition of the Latin/Roman rite, which is not practiced in the Eastern Tradition. In a nutshell, Christ's apostles did not marry or have children, and neither should their apostolic successors. See Corinthians .



>
>
>Also please explain The Trinity

Sure. We believe in one God in three distinct persons, who are eternal and each fully express the one indivisible divine nature. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

>
>Do you believe in Heaven and Hell?

Of course.