1. "here's where you tell us it was the 19yr olds fault" In response to Reply # 0
*not watching the video.
. http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/ i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.
3. "of course. why wouldnt i?" In response to Reply # 2
. http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/ i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Fri Jul-15-16 08:38 AM
5. "yes, it was excessive force" In response to Reply # 4
the last 2 shots should lead to their termination IMO.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
8. "what kind of stupid ass question is this?" In response to Reply # 4
. http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/ i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.
11. "did you still not watch the video." In response to Reply # 8
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
13. "i havent watched the video" In response to Reply # 11
and no, i dont intend to
i do think there's a problem within society if shooting unarmed persons is considered policing there have to be better and more effective ways
. http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/ i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.
14. "if a suspect* after repeated warnings pulls an object out of his pants" In response to Reply # 13 Fri Jul-15-16 09:14 AM by Cenario
what do you expect officers to do?
*who you believe has a weapon.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
16. "The repeated warnings were stupid after he'd been shot" In response to Reply # 14
It's like they were just shooting dude for fun at that point. He's basically dying, so they could have run over and grabbed whatever weapon they THOUGHT he had and saved his life, because the weapon wasn't even in his hands as you could see both of his hands. That was lazy ass killer policing at work.
21. "i addressed that below. A person whose been shot can still fire" In response to Reply # 16
a weapon themselves. He didn't have anything in his hands but its still possible that he had another weapon on him. (even though now we know he didn't). Couple that with the fact that he's been disregarding orders.
I would need to watch the video again to see what exactly was going on at that point, but i really have no desire to see it again. I agree that continuing to shoot a person while on the ground is problematic but i don't feel like just bc someone is shot and on the ground he's no longer a threat. Generally speaking the officers were very patient throughout the whole thing so my first inclination is to give them the benefit of the doubt in this instance.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
17. "i dont have answers" In response to Reply # 14 Fri Jul-15-16 09:22 AM by akon
but its a conversation that *this* society needs to have getting shot by the police should not be something that happens as often as it does the fear that everyone is armed and dangerous and the paranoia this engenders within the police force does not make this environment healthy, not for the police and certainly not for society especially since we know that there is a bias to this paranoia as well and that it is negatively impacting one group by and large we can call it whatever, racism, paranoia, fear for life blablabla, doesnt remove the problem
the problem is when we bring up instances to justify every other incident that was not warranted instead of dealing with and addressing the larger issue which is what this post attempts to do
is this supposed to make us now think, well, of course this illegitimizes every other claim?
. http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/ i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.
Each incident should be looked at independently of each other. The incidents with the same bottom line, if problematic, should be lumped together and examined as a whole.
But like i said, i'm just talking about this incident. There are certain times when shooting a unarmed person is justified and this is one imo.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
36. "I think paranoia is a loaded term to use. " In response to Reply # 17
And don't get me wrong, I am not pro-cops.
I am for everything on the BLM platform. But I also think cops by training need to approach alot of situations prepared to deal with a person who may have a gun. That doesn't mean they get to run up on people like James Blake, but they have to be extremely cautious (balanced against civil liberties and the presumption of innocence) but it's not an impossible balance and a lot of cops manage to do so.
I think what these cops did hear is within the realm of reasonable behavior for someone who acting like he has a weapon while ignoring instructions...even after he is shot he still appears to be reaching for a weapon.
>but its a conversation that *this* society needs to have >getting shot by the police should not be something that >happens as often as it does >the fear that everyone is armed and dangerous >and the paranoia this engenders within the police force >does not make this environment healthy, not for the police >and certainly not for society >especially since we know that there is a bias to this paranoia >as well >and that it is negatively impacting one group by and large >we can call it whatever, racism, paranoia, fear for life >blablabla, doesnt remove the problem > >the problem is when we bring up instances to justify every >other incident that was not warranted >instead of dealing with and addressing the larger issue >which is what this post attempts to do > >is this supposed to make us now think, well, of course this >illegitimizes every other claim?
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
39. "how is it loaded when it means this?" In response to Reply # 36
"baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others."
. http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/ i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.
They gave him a lot of time compared to say... Tamir Rice, Philando Castille, John Crawford III, etc. They also could have easily subdued dude after shooting him those first couple of times.
Unarmed Black folks are still 5 times as likely as unarmed white folks to be killed by police, just in case this is supposed to be some "look, it happens to white ppl too" move.
9. "it is. he's clayton bisby up in here" In response to Reply # 6
> just in case this is supposed >to be some "look, it happens to white ppl too" >move.
. http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/ i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Fri Jul-15-16 09:34 AM
20. "divorce his wife for being a n###r lover and shit" In response to Reply # 12
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
22. "RE: That sucks, man" In response to Reply # 6
>Unarmed Black folks are still 5 times as >likely as unarmed white folks to be killed >by police, just in case this is supposed >to be some "look, it happens to white ppl too" >move.
Not at all, its just to highlight the fine line between what is and isn't a "justified" shooting and and how differently people react depending on the people involved.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Fri Jul-15-16 10:27 AM
29. "first 2 shots, sure... but the last 2? nah, thats the problem IMO" In response to Reply # 22 Fri Jul-15-16 10:29 AM by legsdiamond
but i dont think this is a good example of a fine line... dude obviously had mental issues and taunted the cops.
i know people think its impossible to fire to wound and not kill but it sure seems like this is a time when a cop can shoot a guy on the leg and not in his chest. He wasnt making sudden moves and was basically a non moving target from that distance.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
32. "RE: first 2 shots, sure... but the last 2? nah, thats the problem IMO" In response to Reply # 29
>but i dont think this is a good example of a fine line... >dude obviously had mental issues and taunted the cops. > >i know people think its impossible to fire to wound and not >kill but it sure seems like this is a time when a cop can >shoot a guy on the leg and not in his chest. He wasnt making >sudden moves and was basically a non moving target from that >distance.
the thing is, they're trained to fire center mass, not at limbs like in the movies. and once that adrenaline kicks in, you're left with muscle memory from what you've been taught and trained for repeatedly.
my issue is... given what seemed to be a generous amount of time (whiiite!) between warning given and shots fired, could one of the cops have not tazed the kid, particularly after he was on the ground? still commanding him to show his hands/lay on his belly *after* he'd been shot, well, in his belly and wounded seems a bit unrealistic.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Fri Jul-15-16 01:10 PM
51. "dude is really playing that Fox News game" In response to Reply # 48
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
57. "RE: I just tried to give people and insight to how police think and what..." In response to Reply # 53
>going on with them. > >Not making excuses or justifying anything. > >Do with that information what you will. > >If you get stopped by police go ahead and resist all you want >though player.
10. "yup i agree...as for the last 2 shots...there's definitely a balance" In response to Reply # 7
between a shot suspect writhing in pain and not following commands vs a shot suspect still being able to be a threat.
In this instance, the suspect disregarded repeated warnings, i think you'd still have to consider him a threat at that point.
I didn't hear it but according to the cnn article, it said that the guy said he hated his life.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
19. "nah the fact that he said he hated his life explained why he wasn't" In response to Reply # 15
following orders and why he's pulling objects out of his pants/shirt. I'm watching the video thinking he either has a weapon or wants the officer's to believe he has one. I was nervous and concerned about the object and i'm watching from my desk sipping coffee.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Fri Jul-15-16 10:06 AM
24. "the last 2 shots = murder" In response to Reply # 15
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
27. "that's what i thought i saw. I've only watched the video once. If i was" In response to Reply # 26
judge and jury i'd obviously have to watch again, but right now, i don't want to.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Fri Jul-15-16 10:19 AM
28. "yes. it looked like he was reaching for his bullet wounds" In response to Reply # 26 Fri Jul-15-16 10:24 AM by legsdiamond
once he hit the ground they should have ran up on him to disarm him. The hand that was behind his back no longer had the object in it and he was on his back and couldnt see the officers.
It didnt look like he was playing hurt so he could pull out and blast them like in the movies. Did they think he had a bomb?
Just didnt seem like he was a threat on the ground and with 2 bullets in him I dont expect him to pull out a gun and rapid fire from that posotion.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
35. "RE: Depends if he has a gun. " In response to Reply # 33
>I think this is one of those times we have to confront how >scary it is to be afraid you are dealing with someone with a >gun.
Well in that case, we have to agree to disagree. They've repeated this fear idea so much that ppl have started to believe it and forgotten what protecting, serving, and saving lives would actually look like.
41. "they've repeated it?" In response to Reply # 35
It takes police propaganda for people to believe that cops have to be fearful of dealing with people with guns?
I am guessing you don't have any family in law enforcement or the military huh?
>>I think this is one of those times we have to confront how >>scary it is to be afraid you are dealing with someone with a >>gun. > > > >Well in that case, we have to agree to >disagree. They've repeated this fear >idea so much that ppl have started to >believe it and forgotten what protecting, >serving, and saving lives would actually >look like. > > >
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
47. "That's the excuse they always give for killing Black folks." In response to Reply # 41
Even when we're unarmed, so it's a bullshit excuse, and yes they repeat it every goddamn time they kill one of us... to the point you've started to believe it. It's not fear. It's a racist extermination tactic with us. Therefore, I no longer buy the excuse. This is what happens when you cry wolf.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Fri Jul-15-16 01:14 PM
52. "bruh, while I know cops fear for their life" In response to Reply # 41
it's no different than firefighters who fear fire. They still run into those burning buildings and cops still run towards danger when shit goes down.
I find it hard to believe that these 2 feared for their lives after the first 2 shots and dude hit the ground.
At that point I really think most cops would/should tase or rush in BEFORE a perp has a chance to reach for a weapon.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
71. "RE: bruh, while I know cops fear for their life" In response to Reply # 52
>it's no different than firefighters who fear fire. They still >run into those burning buildings and cops still run towards >danger when shit goes down.
Exactly and there is safety protocol to adhere to while they do their jobs. I don't think there is police reg that would find these cops at fault for shooting a person who appears to be trying to hide something with one hand and repeatedly ignoring their direction to show his hand, talking all this death talk, and is reaching into his waist band even after he got shot.
> >I find it hard to believe that these 2 feared for their lives >after the first 2 shots and dude hit the ground.
I don't.
> >At that point I really think most cops would/should tase or >rush in BEFORE a perp has a chance to reach for a weapon.
that all seems like exposes yourself to undue risk for no reason.
This dude seems to be trying to provoke the cops to shoot him and we can only be so surprised that they did.
>
>
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
44. "i don't need to hear police say it to know that there is a possible" In response to Reply # 35
threat with every police interaction.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
49. "Yet you do hear it..." In response to Reply # 44
every time one of us is killed whether armed or unarmed. They always claim they were afraid. If you don't know it's bullshit by now, you've already been had.
55. "whether they repeat it or not has no bearing on whether its" In response to Reply # 49
valid or not. I'm sure its said in instances where its not true. I'm sure its said in instances where it is true as well.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
34. "this is very unrealistic fam" In response to Reply # 28
>once he hit the ground they should have ran up on him to disarm him.
i doubt that this is any police manual. You don't even see this on tv c'mon.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Fri Jul-15-16 11:31 AM
37. "i seem to recall plenty of videos where cops shoot" In response to Reply # 34
and once the suspect drops and his hands are empty the run up and cuff, secure the perp.
I rarely see cops shoot and then wait while the person moves around and has a chance to dog for a weapon.
seriously, just seems odd for cops to give someone a chance to reach for a weapon instead of moving swiftly once the guy is hit.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
40. "I don't know what vids you watch but ok" In response to Reply # 37
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
56. "how would they know if he's mentally ill?" In response to Reply # 54
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Fri Jul-15-16 01:25 PM
59. "I know it would have been hard to judge, but I think non lethal force " In response to Reply # 54
should have been the first approach. Shit rubber bullets or bean bag shotgun would have stopped this kid. Even pepper spray. There's two cops and one kid.
Still the first cop was a 20 year vet so that, the repeated warnings, and the fact that HE stopped shooting are why I say his actions although not ideal are not out of line.
63. "what did the 2nd cop do? i only watched the vid once." In response to Reply # 59
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79594 posts
Fri Jul-15-16 02:21 PM
70. "what video are you watching? 2nd cop didn't have a shotgun" In response to Reply # 64
and you can't see him in the video when the last 2 shots were fired.
I still think once he dropped to the ground and both hands were in view most cops would run up and cuff him.
I know they had reports of a gun in the area but it sucks they stopped a crazy dude and had weapons drawn from jump. They found the "perfect victim" to kill so to speak.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
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