So we're looking for a house. We have a 7 member family. Me and my bio-daughter are white (blond and pale). My SO, her daughter and 2 lil boys are dark black. And we my SO's daughter has a boyfriend is light-skinned, lives with us and we treat him like our own.
We've been looking for a house to rent in nice neighborhoods. Shit is like a triumph for us because we've never had the opportunity to NOT live in ruff/drug heavy neighborhood. We're all apartment-people so this is the first time we'll have a backyard and all that.
So I found a place that we might look and went for a viewing. Landlord was an older indian guy. Place was great....I have a good job and good salary. Came away from the viewing thinking that we were a lock. So the teenagers asked if they could see it before we made a commitment. So we all went together and the landlord was COMPLETELY different. I'm talking night and day different. Then the next day I got a phone call saying that he already rented it to someone else. The lawn sign and the web ad are still up.
So we decided not to bring our teens for anymore viewings....even beyond the race thing....my SO and I look young. And her daughter's boyfriend is way taller than me...I certainly don't look like his dad (even though our relationship is very much father/son). In anycase...we figured that we kinda look like a motley crue and don't look like a typical family. You might even mistake our teens for being our friends instead of our kids.
So My SO and I go to another property owned by an old Italian guy. As soon as he laid eyes on us....I KNEW that it was a done deal. And it was because my SO was black. Again....she's dark-skinned and I could tell that he was uncomfortable with us straight outta the gate.
So we found another one just yesterday. I struggled with whether or not to even bring up the suggestion that I go to the viewing by myself. Then my SO said 'I wanna say something but I feel hesitant'. So I reply 'Go ahead, it's ok'. "Well I was thinking maybe you should go by yourself". I told her that I was thinking the same thing and that's the route we're taking tomorrow. I have a lot of feelings about this. Angry. I feel really guilty too. I feel guilty for even thinking of suggesting this to my SO and felt grateful that she said it first. I feel guilty that I have to be 'the face' of the family so that we can benefit from my appearance. I feel guilty that I HAVE this benefit. And we've had to face our own prejudices too....we are worried that the landlord will be desi, Chinese, greek or Italian. And we think there's a higher chance that they'll be racist against dark-skinned black people if they are.
We're gonna talk about it with the teens on Sunday when we have our family dinners. The fact is...we don't look like a family. And people are fucked. I'm gonna point out to my bio-daughter that this is one of those things that hasn't even crossed the mind of most white people. A privilege that they often don't even know that they have.
13. "the reason your family even exists" In response to Reply # 2
is due to people standing up for the right to exist, regardless of whether there was an immediate personal benefit
got time to post on OKP -- surely you have time to make a call to find out the answers to your questions.
many successful housing discrimination cases in the US are based on paired testing: one household without protected characteristics and another belonging to a protected class - each documents/tapes their interaction with the landlord. in lots of cases like yours, landlords tell one household that nothing is available to rent and minutes later tell their preferred prospective renter about all of the availability that have magically appeared. But you would have to call to find out what the law and standards are in Ontario.
what's in it for you? teaching your kids that the solution to discrimination is not using a white person to help you secure basic life needs? if there are "fair housing" organizations in your city, you may even meet great people who can help you find a place without a racist landlord. i'm sure you can look into the annals of history and figure something out that would seem like a benefit to your family. for you personally, since you are welcome to use your white privilege how you see fit, there may not be a personal benefit to you immediately, maybe respect of your family... but that's for you to figure out.
good luck finding a place
"i fear no fate" e.e. cummings "No girl. No fried chicken. I'm going back to get some sleep." - Haruki Murakami
>is due to people standing up for the right to exist, >regardless of whether there was an immediate personal benefit > > >got time to post on OKP -- surely you have time to make a call >to find out the answers to your questions. >
____ Some will tell you that they love you but they've got an ulterior motive - Oh what a shame They will tell you that they need you but they've got an ulterior motive - Personal gain
24. "A mix of all that really. It's tough sometimes...." In response to Reply # 17
>Is it purely on "numbers" (credit score and pay stubs) >is it first come first rented? >or do you go by "feel"
Ultimately it boils down to their income and ability to pay the monthly rent though. I don't really put much investment into credit scores though...simply because most of the folks that are drawn to our unit are 28 and under and they ALL have jacked credit. But at the same time, they make GOOD money. It's just them student loans be hurting them. And the fact that their parents have floated them so long that they don't have established credit history.
I fear renting to weirdos more than anything. Weirdos will fuck.yo.shit.UP!
29. "Do you accept Section 8?" In response to Reply # 24
>>Is it purely on "numbers" (credit score and pay stubs) >>is it first come first rented? >>or do you go by "feel" > >Ultimately it boils down to their income and ability to pay >the monthly rent though. I don't really put much investment >into credit scores though...simply because most of the folks >that are drawn to our unit are 28 and under and they ALL have >jacked credit. But at the same time, they make GOOD money. >It's just them student loans be hurting them. And the fact >that their parents have floated them so long that they don't >have established credit history. > >I fear renting to weirdos more than anything. Weirdos will >fuck.yo.shit.UP! > > >"Get ready....for your blessing....."
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
that your SO feels like a liability and hindrance to you guys finding a place that would tear me up inside. The thought that she could have been the breadwinner with the nice job and still get turned downed would make me even madder.
That anger with no immediate recourse is what black ppl been feeling forever.
Props to her for recognizing that the endgame is more important to the family than trying to make a statement right now, even though shes probably pissed about it.
We've recently experienced something else that reveals male privilege in a real and measurable way. We finally decided to let the lil boys stay with their bio-dad on weekdays so that he can stay out of jail for support payments and so that she can finally pursue a career after spending 18 years as a stay-at-home mom.
So she took a course offered through our welfare system geared towards women. It was a 3 month course that focused on administration assistant type stuff. She went to it for a couple weeks til we realized that the jobs people were getting coming out of it were in the 12 to 15 dollar an hour wage. So she transferred to the other program, geared towards men. More basic carpentry type stuff. And THAT program results in jobs that earn around 16 to 20 dollars an hour. Pretty fucked up. Both programs are designed for people who never went to college. She was smart enough to be the only women in the class geared towards men and she just got a job paying 17.50 an hour.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79601 posts
Fri May-20-16 08:44 AM
22. "my neighbor across the street" In response to Reply # 10
this womans daughter is 27 and does her hair in the drive way every morning while playing loud music. Never leaves the house either.
Half the time she doesnt come out until people start working on their lawns or doing shit around the house.
she craves attention and its sad as shit.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
11. "I can see there being a market for white avatars." In response to Reply # 9 Fri May-20-16 02:15 AM by denny
Thing is...with our situation in Toronto....it's not even white people that we're afraid of. It's immigrants. Either from Pakistan, India, China, Greece or Italy. It's not even necessarily a white/black thing like I imagine it is in alot of the states. It's the darkness of your skin.
Old Greek/Italian men DO NOT consider someone pale and blond like me 'one of their kind'. They see me as a pale descendant of a brutish viking-like culture. Not civilized...no history...no culture. But I'm higher on the scale than a dark-skinned black person. And then there's the Indian/Pakistani old men. Dark-skinned black people are the lowest forms of human to them. We've seen them taking their children away from ours on playgrounds. Chinese people too.
This is an honest contention...if we had an assurance that the landlord for a prospective property was either white or black...we wouldn't bother doing any of this. It's the immigrants from those countries I specified that we're worried about. And they happen to make up alot of the landlords in the neighborhoods we're looking at. I would also contend that the children and grandchildren of these guys probably don't have this overt racism in the same way. It's a generational thing.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79601 posts
Fri May-20-16 05:59 AM
12. "Well, now we know why Rob Ford was elected" In response to Reply # 11
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Fri May-20-16 04:42 PM
48. "If you're worried about what Indians and Chinese (among others) think " In response to Reply # 15
you're worried about the wrong things. Fools be bathing with cows and killing their daughters to save face. They are doing you a favor by taking their kids away from yours.
______________________________________
Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days
16. "In other words...Agua es mojado." In response to Reply # 0
You know about all the inner workings of what heroin do to your body but don't know that white folks don't want to rent to non-white folks? In 2016 even?
But some candid words from THIS landlord is that:
1.You say you have a "good salary" but then you say your mate is in a "welfare class".
2. Landlords stereotype, get over it. Someone with a "good salary" has a ENTIRELY different appearance than someone in a "welfare class". That's being honest. Also, price point of the rental has something to do with it as well. If I'm renting a $500 trap house I already know what to expect. If I'm renting a $1,800 3/2 then I'm expecting your income to be right at (but hopefully OVER) $100k
3. People gauge how you doing in life by what you/your kids dress like. You've made posts about money being TIGHT round your parts. Not sure if all your kids is in fresh pressed threads with CLEAN/neiwsh looking trainers. But that's a pretty good indicator. Also do the lil boys have fresh edge ups?
4. All this stuff is sad to hear but you have to look at it from the landlords standpoint. If s/he rents you the place and next month you tear it up (broken window is $500, busted door is $400, etc) then they are "stuck" with you and them repair bills until they pay a lawyer to get you out. Tenants have more rights than the property owner.
5. My suggestion to you is to you is you try to do as much as you can ALONE to get the place. But I'm sure they will want to see all adults over the age of 18 living in the dwelling. Just try to skate by. But yeah, if one of your "kids" got kicked out by his own biological parents then I would lean to the side of his appearance not being "dressed to impress".
Rentals game is brutal.
Oh, take it from someone who is Black as shit but has a white wife. While I don't have to play by the same rules you might have to, I'm just giving some advice.
19. "My post still applies." In response to Reply # 18
If Denny made $100k per year and his wife made $80k and they had "prestigous" careers/jobs then all that BS goes out the window. I've seen/had it happen.
Of course, it only applies to "regular" properties. If you're trying to rent/buy into some tony co-op in NYC then no matter HOW much money you got or you're a blood relative of George Washington AND George Bush, they ain't renting to you!
It sounds like this is the first flat he's ever let.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79601 posts
Fri May-20-16 09:03 AM
27. "once you throw in a few people who dont look like family" In response to Reply # 23
it gives off the vibe that you might have an open door policy...
and in Dennys case its true.
if his teenage daughter had 2 more friends who needed a place to live Denny wont say no...
i still want to see the landlords face when he shows up alone and then after he gets the key shows up with his clan.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
28. "I hate to stereotype (but MY afmily is like this) but..." In response to Reply # 27 Fri May-20-16 09:24 AM by deejboram
>it gives off the vibe that you might have an open door >policy... > >and in Dennys case its true. > >if his teenage daughter had 2 more friends who needed a place >to live Denny wont say no... > >i still want to see the landlords face when he shows up alone >and then after he gets the key shows up with his clan. > >
Denny got too much a swirl going on. He's taken in strays and can barely pay a $400 dental bill. His non-white partner is in a "welfare" course. So my picture of his life(style) is already complete.
It's one thing to rent to a 30ish guy (white or black) who makes 50-60k and has a girlfriend (maybe a kid that lives with his babymoms most of the time) than to renting to this same guy with six mouths to feed and some GROWN ass kids (18-20 is grown) still living in the house.
I can see loud music, weed smoke, they bad ass 17-25 year old friends trying to come over.
When you trying to rent out a decent property these the kinda things flash through your mind.
Denny just need to come with CASHIER CHECKS and proof of income/credit score all made out and ready to go for whatever units he goes to view from now on.
When renting in NYC, I knew the only places I'd get a "fair" shake was Harlem. Even in Brooklyn (Do or Die / Flat) I was getting funny looks. I ended up with a black broker who was representing a BLACK ASS HOOD ASS THUG ASS UPTOWN ASS *former* drug dealer ass landlord. BEST landlord i'v had in my life!!!
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79601 posts
Fri May-20-16 09:22 AM
32. "we had a black broker in BK, credit scores, and like 3 or 4 months rent" In response to Reply # 28
landlord thought i was a drug dealer cause we gave him all that rent uo front. Jamaican dude who lived in his sisters property.
one time Joe had me drive his car out of the tow lot cause his license was fucked up and he gave me weed for my troubles.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79601 posts
Fri May-20-16 08:40 AM
21. "yeah, while its fucked up Denny had to know showing up 7 deep" In response to Reply # 16
was a bad idea. If im a landlord and i see 5 miss matched kids I'm prolly thinking it will be 7 or 8 kids by the end of the year.
Denny got that Shameless family.
You really thought it was a good idea to bring your daughters teenage boyfriend?
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
58. "Have to admit...." In response to Reply # 21 Fri May-20-16 07:50 PM by denny
I was a little naïve. I'm used to applying for apartments in 'undesirable' neighborhoods. And our teens are artsy types. They aren't dressed to impress. Lesson learned though.
It kinda hit me as we were approaching the door but by then it was too late. My kids don't smoke, no weed, no drinking. Completely straight-edge. But they probably don't LOOK that way. Then adding whatever racial prejudices that the landlord might have....we can only lose by bringing them along.
It's possible that I'm kinda demonizing the desi dude. The agent was black and effeminate at the place I viewed today. Could be that he would think twice seeing the whole family as well.
if we get it....i'll set up the speakers outside playing this on repeat:
25. "I've found the best way to motivate landlords is to show up with cash" In response to Reply # 0
...or a check, or whatever. If you have a stable job (been there for over a year at least) and the bread to throw down an extra month of rent that seems to help here, regardless of your credit rating.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79601 posts
Fri May-20-16 08:59 AM
26. "yup, but if you show up 7 deep, all different colors" In response to Reply # 25
and look like you will fuck the crib up then to u kay need 2 months.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
It's not just race. It's the fact that we don't look like a typical family. If we were all black and I was the tallest...we might be better off. It's that it looks confusing...an older guy with traditional values wouldn't know what to think. Who's the dad? Who's kids are these? Hell...we might even look like a group of college friends upon first glance. And most landlords dont's want that.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79601 posts
Fri May-20-16 09:23 AM
33. "you got options, Denny sounds like he got one option... show up alone" In response to Reply # 30
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79601 posts
Fri May-20-16 09:32 AM
37. "somewhere like the hood? " In response to Reply # 34
cuz Denny is saying the nicer areas aint trying to take his money.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
But multiculturalism has some side-effects that most liberals don't like to admit to.
The fact is...a lot of these immigrants bring traditional values with them when they come over. And some of those values are racist. They didn't grow up in a multi-cultural, blended society. So what you'll see is their kids being open-minded...but them still clinging to the old ways.
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Fri May-20-16 04:33 PM
45. "Fuck em' they worship rats and support facists " In response to Reply # 43
both groups you identified have cities in their respective countries where the streets are lined with trash. You wouldn't want anything from them anyway.
______________________________________
Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days
now or never Member since Oct 27th 2004 3821 posts
Fri May-20-16 03:31 PM
39. "i feel like there's been a growing 'white privilege isn't real' movement" In response to Reply # 0
like whenever i listen to joe rogan or brilliant idiots (i know) anytime it comes up with them or their guests they LOOOVE to talk about it like it's an antiquated idea niggas lump it in with the whole idea of people wanting to be offended/over pc bullshit like they seem annoyed at the very idea of it and i'm thinking "o we just gonna act like white people catchin NO breaks in the streets like forever?"
----- No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.
There's real things. Prison statistics....income disparities....job/housing applications....education statistics.
But a lot of these young activists come from good homes and don't experience these issues. So they focus on trivial shit like their white classmate wearing dreadlocks or Darryl hall appropriating black music. And then the Rogens lump all that shit together and dismiss the legitimate problems.
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Fri May-20-16 04:22 PM
42. "dark black? Pick one." In response to Reply # 0 Fri May-20-16 04:28 PM by Atillah Moor
Don't go by yourself. You don't want to rent from fucked up people. They're aiding you in feeling fucked up about yourself just by virtue of them being fucked up. Go with her and tough it out until you find a real human being to rent from. That would be my suggestion.
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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days
I think we got a place. We had to level with the teens. This is what I wrote them in a facebook groupchat dedicated to finding a house:
Here's the deal guys. We wanted to talk to y'all about this in person....but the fact is....we don't look like a typical 'family'. Upon first glance....we might even look like a group of college friends. Alot of these landlords are old and are looking for what they THINK is a traditional family. Thea and I both look kinda young. Justin is taller than me. I don't look like his guardian. So when we show up together....we're putting ourselves at risk of being stereotyped or discriminated against. I hope that's not too hurtful to anyone. But we live in the real world and some of these older people have unfortunate assumptions of what a family is SUPPOSED to be.
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Fri May-20-16 04:46 PM
49. "wouldn't happen. They'd find a place. " In response to Reply # 47 Fri May-20-16 04:46 PM by Atillah Moor
Not everyone is from a place where North Africans fucked their shit up and they've never gotten over it, or where women are assaulted and disemboweled because --women. Certainly not everyone is from a place where elevators eat you alive and pork buns are stuffed with cardboard.
Eventually you'll find a real person. They still exist.
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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days
51. "Is you sleep? Or is you woke?" In response to Reply # 49
>Not everyone is from a place where North Africans fucked >their shit up and they've never gotten over it, or where women >are assaulted and disemboweled because --women. Certainly not >everyone is from a place where elevators eat you alive and >pork buns are stuffed with cardboard. > >Eventually you'll find a real person. They still exist.
Because brotha man you been on this Black to Africa kick for a minute. Say did yall Free Mumia yet?
Not all white ppls is bad.
You on the short list of OKPs I wanna meet. But I think you're an alias.
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Fri May-20-16 04:57 PM
52. "neither" In response to Reply # 51 Fri May-20-16 05:00 PM by Atillah Moor
there's no black or back to anything in my personal beliefs. I just believe that outside of work people shouldn't cave to the horseshit of fools (no judging -- seriously). There are always options.
And for black people we are in a unique position where we don't really need to give a shit about anything outside of treating others like we would treat ourselves, because if every black person did that jokers like those mentioned by Denny would still be around being fucked up but at least we would be just fine.
He found a place didn't he? And he certainly could've brought his lady to that one.
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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days
53. "Why draw the line at work?" In response to Reply # 52
>there's no black or back to anything in my personal beliefs. >I just believe that outside of work people shouldn't cave to >the horseshit of fools (no judging -- seriously). There are >always options. > >And for black people we are in a unique position where we >don't really need to give a shit about anything outside of >treating others like we would treat ourselves, because if >every black person did that jokers like those mentioned by >Denny would still be around being fucked up but at least we >would be just fine. > >He found a place didn't he? And he certainly could've brought >his lady to that one.
Not everything is some racial struggle Sometimes people just don't like you cause they don't like you Due to systemic racism and misogyny it's hella Black people that don't like me
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Fri May-20-16 05:16 PM
55. "Because you go to work for a paycheck and you sign up for it" In response to Reply # 53 Fri May-20-16 05:20 PM by Atillah Moor
and difficult people are a promise in any workplace.
Not everything is a racial struggle and I never said it was, but in America -- with 75% of white folks not having any real contact with black folks (if any) and 40% being straight racists to some degree well -- you do the math as to how much racial struggle you'll encounter in your day to day.
I've never thought all white people are bad. The numbers seem to show there are at least two decent white people for every (decent or not) black person.
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Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Fri May-20-16 05:47 PM
57. "True. Lo and behold he found a place without the nonsense " In response to Reply # 56 Fri May-20-16 05:51 PM by Atillah Moor
I agree showing up with the United Colors of Benetton maybe wasn't the best approach, but he and his SO could have found a place together. Call me naive, but a couples love is a lot stronger than a landlords hate or bias IMO.
Those stats are from the Washington Post and some other source. I posted the link a while ago, but because I've missed you Deej I'll post them here.
59. "I love how white people made themselves the "standard" rule " In response to Reply # 0 Sat May-21-16 10:23 AM by double negative
by "love" I mean utter disgust
like...
how amazing is it that they simultaneously fucked over a TON of people all over the world while also making it so that they are the rule to be measured against?
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