2. "I grew up in a working class household." In response to Reply # 0
And I struggle with the fact that in socioeconomic terms I've surpassed my mother and am not working class like she was. My education and earnings make me middle class. But my worldview, politics, and spending are deeply grounded in my working class upbringing.
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"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
-DJ R-Tistic- Member since Nov 06th 2008 51986 posts
Tue Feb-09-16 03:25 PM
5. "I honestly didn't even understand what "working class" meant until maybe" In response to Reply # 2
the 2008 election. I always figured working class = people who work = Middle Class and even Upper-Middle. I didn't realize it had that blue collar connotation to it.
11. "US society trains us not to see class." In response to Reply # 5
My first memory of having a conversation on class was when I was like 9-10 and I asked my mom if we were middle class. She laughed at me. "No!" "We're not? Then what are we?" "Poor." That was hard for me to accept.
I remember being in college and my sociology professors asking the class how many saw themselves in upper class. And like 2-3-4 people raised their hands. Next she asked who thought of themselves as middle class and 95% (probably around 100 people) of the class raised their hands. And finally she asked who saw themselves as working class or poor and there were 3 of us who raised our hands. That was shocking to me. That no one, not even in college... in a sociology course really understood class or where they fit in. Granted we're at a 4 year university where poor people are going to be underrepresented, but there were people there who I know were not middle class. On both sides. People who were working class, working poor, or poor who thought they were middle class. And kids from very affluent background who thought the same.
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Tue Feb-09-16 03:38 PM
7. "so a welder or plumber making 60k is working class" In response to Reply # 4
and a creative who makes 40k is middle class?
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
How about a high level mechanic or even plumber making 200K?
I didn't specify it in the post...but one of the most dividing things about "classifying" people is that it really becomes more about your look, lifestyles, and people you associate with vs your actual income.
There's creatives who have a fluctuating income, which might not even scrape 20K, yet people will see them as "middle class" because of their presentation and lifestyle. Even when it comes to dating, this becomes tricky. Some folks may see it as a "how much career potential do you have in your field" thing as well..and they'll figure that a plumber's peak salary may be 60K-80K, while the "Creative" has the sky as their limit.
10. "where i'm at, it's all about the money" In response to Reply # 9
blue or white collar. i'm considering you middle class if you makin the money to put you there.
i know a barber, a warehouse supervisor, a teacher, an bank manager, an office supervisor, and a mechanic who all make about the same amount of money. to me they're all middle class
19. "I think that's an extreme example that isn't particularly useful for dis..." In response to Reply # 14
but I would say if your income is 7 figures, you're wealth matters less. Income and wealth are both factors that contribute to your social class. In this case, income is enough to put them in the upper class.
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
12. "working class people sell their labor for to live." In response to Reply # 3
they typically don't have very much education. Maybe a certificate or and AA... but usually not a bachelors. Definitely not any advanced degrees.
Working class people don't own much. Maybe their house. But definitely few or no investments. Are often if not check-to-check only a few paychecks away from hard times.
The wiki article R-tistic posted has a good descriptor "The cut-off between working class and middle class here might mean the line where a population has discretionary income, rather than simply sustenance"
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
16. "RE: working class people sell their labor for to live." In response to Reply # 12
>they typically don't have very much education. Maybe a >certificate or and AA... but usually not a bachelors. >Definitely not any advanced degrees. > >Working class people don't own much. Maybe their house. But >definitely few or no investments. Are often if not >check-to-check only a few paychecks away from hard times. > >The wiki article R-tistic posted has a good descriptor >"The cut-off between working class and middle class here might >mean the line where a population has discretionary income, >rather than simply sustenance"
i think the difference is getting paid for what you know vs what you do
22. "working class.... " In response to Reply # 17
the sum seems high, but it's probably enough to live an upper middle class existance in nyc. own a home. send kids to a nice school. but not balling rich. sadly it seems stupid high because everyone else who doesn't belong to a union has super low wages especially in nyc. here blue collar and working class construction workers and welders and mechanics own homes and send their kids to nice schools so I don't think their lifestyle is out of line with working class.
24. "it's not that simple and has nothing to do with the type of work" In response to Reply # 3
its income, plus generational wealth, plus social capital
to put it in perspective, some of the recent research says that to be middle class in america and living in a major american city, single or with a partner, one(s) would have to make 125-250k a year, and adding kids to the mix shifts the dynamics
and the irony is that most americans, regardless of race and class have better material lives than most of the world.
27. "RE: it's not that simple and has nothing to do with the type of work" In response to Reply # 24
The social capital piece of this is huge-education and values.
Lots of academics make no money at all but feel at home in upper middle class settings discussing the latest article in the New Yorker.
The same is true of plumbers (one example) making well over six figures who rep working class for all of their lives.
It's education and then a bunch of cultural markers that combine determine one's social class...
Where you live, what you eat, where you eat (see the great Okayplayer Red Lobster debates), what read or don't, what you watch (also see the Okayplayer Tyler Perry debates), what you listen to, where you shop, etc. etc.
20. "Where's the started at the bottom now we here option?" In response to Reply # 0
Not really but somewhat. Both parents were always employed but low income/ bad with money. Had the phone and even electricity cut off before. Neither parents are homeowners. Now I am solidly middle class.
------- "The Roots are that real hip hop from the United States of America" -President Barack Obama
23. "I am not." In response to Reply # 0 Wed Feb-10-16 12:22 AM by astralblak
my family, which at one point was: mom-pop-and-six-kids in a two bedroom in Van Nuys, has swung through various stages of down right poverty, working class, and lower middle class experiences
in the good years with my two previous exes I was def Middle Class cause of the amount of money they made while I subb'd or taught full time. shit my ex just hit six figures. i'm very happy for her. she worked her fucn ass off...
right now I am not. i just finished grad school, am working two jobs that pay my bills and let me eat well and enjoy myself, but I've experienced better. luckily I have no kids, and no car note, so... I'm staying with these two jobs while i submit for writing fellowships and begin the journey of trying to sell my book.
in a year I may go back to teaching full time or getting a PhD
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